Home schooling

[schmenke]

Anyone here been "home schooled"?
Anyone know someone who has been?
Just curious as to opinions? Are our local public school systems so inadequate that parents consider home schooling a better alternative?

(Caoline?...)

I'm a result of public schooling and, although no Einstein, I figure I turned out o.k. :mark:

[Easy Drifter]

I have known a two who were home schooled through to High School and then attended regular high school. One got a good basic education as her mother was a qualified teacher, but not teaching. The other not so good and really has trouble in High School.
Both, however, were lacking in social skills, having trouble relating to other people. Both had had very vetted and few playmates during there younger years.
I think home schooling can work but it requires a teacher, or teachers who have an adequate schooling themselves and probably teaching experience.

[Donney]

I think home schooling is stupid, because there are more important things to life than the knowledge of facts, such as making friends, dealing with people, learning to trust or distrust certain people....

[ShiftingGears]

I think home schooling is stupid, because there are more important things to life than the knowledge of facts, such as making friends, dealing with people, learning to trust or distrust certain people....

Agreed. I can't say that home schooling would make one at all a well-rounded individual.

[leopard]

I think to trust or distrust someone is not subject we have to teach to children. We just only need to teach them to trust others, children by its nature will tend to believe what their parent teach them.

What have parents taught their children at home known as informal school, education which enable children have some degree taking place at school or at home known as formal school, and what they learn when they make social life that give them more hints about people they trust or distrust known as non formal school.

Although I am a bit skeptic about formal school, I still think they are important staircase four our children stepping into higher level and determine their life in the future. I think all three type of educations are important.

[Wade91]

i'm home schooled which i think is cool becouse i dont ever have to study :p

[leopard]

Am I wrong, my understanding home school is only appropriate for them with mental disorder or communication handicap ...

[Wade91]

Am I wrong, my understanding home school is only appropriate for them with mental disorder or communication handicap ...
i'm not sure how it is in other countrys, but here in the US anyone has the option of home schooling

[leopard]

i'm not sure how it is in other countrys, but here in the US anyone has the option of home schooling

ok, if you are home schooled don't take my perception personally. :)

[ShiftingGears]

i'm home schooled which i think is cool becouse i dont ever have to study :p

That'll equip you well for university.

[Wade91]

ok, if you are home schooled don't take my perception personally. :)
it's all good :)

[Wade91]

That'll equip you well for university.
i may instead study computer training or didigtil photogorfy

[ShiftingGears]

i may instead study computer training or didigtil photogorfy

You might have to work on your spelling as well.

[Wade91]

You might have to work on your spelling as well.
i of cource have like spellcheck useing firefox but i'm to lazy to use it lol :p

[ShiftingGears]

i of cource have like spellcheck useing firefox but i'm to lazy to use it lol :p

I meant learning how to spell.

[Magnus]

I have done quite a lot of home schooling, since we have lived abroad a lot. It has coused sam ishues wit mi speling, but otherwise it is ok.
The backside is the social bit. Normally I reentered ordinary school when we arrived back to Sweden in the middle of the semester, after five month in some warm country/ies. When you are a kid, time flies, and for my classmates I was a strange person.
In addition to this I also skipped two classes, and thus was younger then my fellow inmates.

The biggest drawback is definetely the social side.
On the positive side, as things turned out for me, I had a wealth of experience in comparison to my friends. When I was twelve I had visited 50 countries, gone with camper in the states, lived in the westinidies. Gone with camper in NZ and Au. Been on a cargoships last trip for scrapping to China. Travelled with the transiberian railway, lived in tonga and fiji, and a lot more. It was good, but at the expense of being a very odd little kid :)

[Garry Walker]

i dont ever have to study :p

It shows.

[schmenke]

i'm home schooled which i think is cool becouse i dont ever have to study :p

Are you being home schooled by your parents or a tutor that comes in?

[Wade91]

Are you being home schooled by your parents or a tutor that comes in?
i'm just home schooled by my mom

[Alexamateo]

Wade,

I also am from Tennessee (Memphis) Where are you from, and what were your parents reasons for home schooling?

I'm just curious, my kids are all pre-schoolers, but my 5 year old starts kindergarden in the fall. I want to know if your parents share the same concerns as I.

[Wade91]

Wade,

I also am from Tennessee (Memphis) Where are you from, and what were your parents reasons for home schooling?

I'm just curious, my kids are all pre-schoolers, but my 5 year old starts kindergarden in the fall. I want to know if your parents share the same concerns as I.
well, my dad was killed in a plane crash soon after i was born, i live in Hendersonville (near Nashville) when it was nearing time for me to start public schoole my mom felt that the schoole system is less than perfect, and she saw a add in a magazine for home schooling, and she is a well educated person, so we saw that as the best option, and we also knew it wouldn't have as much impact on our lives and schudule sence we would have a completly free schudule that way, sence she wasn't working at that time

[Caroline]

Unless a child is too ill to attend school I don't see much point in home schooling. How can learning ever be exciting, fresh and new if you are at home without other children the same age being taught by enthusiastic teachers? I also wonder how parents can transform themselves from educators to parents and back again in the course of a day? As a child you grow from contact with others; team building, problem solving, debating skills, performing in front of others - not sure how you do all that in a school of one.

Also not sure how it is regulated either. Would imagine that essential stuff like formative assessments would still be required by authorities. How does a non qualified person get their head round all that?

Wade 91 - how do you know that you are making adequate progress in all subjects and that your subject knowledge and skills are up to scratch? What assessments are in place?

[Wade91]

Unless a child is too ill to attend school I don't see much point in home schooling. How can learning ever be exciting, fresh and new if you are at home without other children the same age being taught by enthusiastic teachers? I also wonder how parents can transform themselves from educators to parents and back again in the course of a day? As a child you grow from contact with others; team building, problem solving, debating skills, performing in front of others - not sure how you do all that in a school of one.

Also not sure how it is regulated either. Would imagine that essential stuff like formative assessments would still be required by authorities. How does a non qualified person get their head round all that?

Wade 91 - how do you know that you are making adequate progress in all subjects and that your subject knowledge and skills are up to scratch? What assessments are in place?
i am enroled in a privet home schooleing accademy and there of cource tests, from time to time, (i have one comeing up this thursday infact) i'm not sure how all the scoring works, but i think they score you on a certen grade level in each topic

[Camelopard]

i am enroled in a privet home schooleing accademy and there of cource tests, from time to time, (i have one comeing up this thursday infact) i'm not sure how all the scoring works, but i think they score you on a certen grade level in each topic

Spelling was never my best point, but I can't help but feel that this is a windup!

[Wade91]

well, i'm not up to par in most topics i mostly score below my grade level on these tests, but i dont care :p

[schmenke]

Why don't you care?

Wade, it's ovious that your mom has no experience or background in the teaching profession. I'd seriously consider switching to a public shool(e). :s

Or, perhaps as Cameltoe suggests, you are just taking the p!ss.

[Wade91]

Why don't you care?

Wade, it's ovious that your mom has no experience or background in the teaching profession. I'd seriously consider switching to a public shool(e). :s

Or, perhaps as Cameltoe suggests, you are just taking the p!ss.
actually, my mom used to teach at a schoole near my house in the 80's but of cource she has to work now, (she's been working for 6 years now) and doesn't have time for home schooleing stuff which is fine with me :p

[Camelopard]

Cameltoe

Actually the user name is Camelopard, which if you didn't know is a giraffe and has nothing to do with camels, their parts or their derogatory connotations.

Are you sure you weren't home schooled? :confused:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giraffe


But this is way off topic.

[Magnus]

But, as we are discussing homeschooling anyway, we could maybe help wade91 with his spelling...?
:)

[christophulus]

Actually the user name is Camelopard, which if you didn't know is a giraffe

I didn't know that :/

On topic, I've not been home-schooled but the other week I met a group of kids who were.

I'm at uni doing Chemistry and as a part time job I help out with some lab technician work for groups of school kids, who come in and do some basic experiments. We had a group of home-schooled kids in the other week, some of whom were 14/15, who had never been in a science lab before.

Now science isn't everything, I know, but that's something they all said they missed out on and really enjoyed the session - an opportunity you don't get at home. Same goes for any sort of technology, how many homes have a CAD/CAM machine to have a play with, or electronics kit?

One of the things I enjoyed most about school was the social side. With home schooling I'd imagine there's less chance for that. Besides, who would you copy your homework off? :p

[Jag_Warrior]

actually, my mom used to teach at a schoole near my house in the 80's but of cource she has to work now, (she's been working for 6 years now) and doesn't have time for home schooleing stuff which is fine with me :p

I'm not trying to get into your business. But since you offered it up, I have a question or three.

When your mom wasn't working, she was your instructor at home, right? But since she's been working for the past six years, who has been giving you your lessons?

As for not caring, from a kid's persepctive, I guess that seems like a dream. You're supposed to be studying, but since no one is keeping up with you, you don't. But do you understand that this situation isn't doing you any favors? You're 18, right? Assuming Tennessee's minimum compentency test is one that you can pass, what are your plans for next year? What about in four to five years?

I've seen a lot of cases where home schooling and smaller private academies are perfectly fine... social skill building concerns aside. But once you made your post, I had to rethink my position.

[Easy Drifter]

Both when I worked for a large corporation and later owning my own companies I had to hire people.
Well Wade, I wouldn't consider you as capable of handling the most menial job available. Your spelling is definetely one big negative but your attitude towards education and responsibility is terrible.
Any job application and or resume arriving in front of me from you wouldn't even get past the first couple of sentences before it went in the shredder.

[airshifter]

Unless a child is too ill to attend school I don't see much point in home schooling. How can learning ever be exciting, fresh and new if you are at home without other children the same age being taught by enthusiastic teachers? I also wonder how parents can transform themselves from educators to parents and back again in the course of a day? As a child you grow from contact with others; team building, problem solving, debating skills, performing in front of others - not sure how you do all that in a school of one.

Also not sure how it is regulated either. Would imagine that essential stuff like formative assessments would still be required by authorities. How does a non qualified person get their head round all that?



You must also look at the other side of the coin though. If not for the extensive programs in my area for gifted children, our daughter would benefit very little from public schools.

There are also a great number of resources these days for home schooling groups, whick allow parents to split up their resources and time better. While I agree with the social interaction aspect mentioned by some, those interactions can take place out of school as well.

I have personally been very pleased with all the teachers our daughter has had in public schools, but I also would find it hard to even imagine that any of them is more concerned and involved with her education than I am. That would be an unreasonable expectation of a public school system.

I'm not quite sure how formal testing is done for home schooled children, but if I get a chance I'll ask one of our neighbors who home schools her three kids.

[leopard]

But, as we are discussing homeschooling anyway, we could maybe help wade91 with his spelling...?
:)
Tenses is not less important... :)

[Wade91]

I'm not trying to get into your business. But since you offered it up, I have a question or three.

When your mom wasn't working, she was your instructor at home, right? But since she's been working for the past six years, who has been giving you your lessons?

As for not caring, from a kid's persepctive, I guess that seems like a dream. You're supposed to be studying, but since no one is keeping up with you, you don't. But do you understand that this situation isn't doing you any favors? You're 18, right? Assuming Tennessee's minimum compentency test is one that you can pass, what are your plans for next year? What about in four to five years?

I've seen a lot of cases where home schooling and smaller private academies are perfectly fine... social skill building concerns aside. But once you made your post, I had to rethink my position.
well, my mom was still my only teacher after she started working 6 years ago but of cource she hasn't really had time for this homeschooleing stuff sence then, which is awesome for me becouse that means that theres nobody left to teach me ;)

i'm actually still 17 i wont be 18 for a few more months, i'm not sure what i'm gonna do after i gradurate from home schooleing i might go to vol state collage for a couple of years, or i might study computers or didgital photogorfy, i'm not sure yet

[schmenke]

well, my mom was still my only teacher after she started working 6 years ago but of cource she hasn't really had time for this homeschooleing stuff sence then, which is awesome for me becouse that means that theres nobody left to teach me ;)

i'm actually still 17 i wont be 18 for a few more months, i'm not sure what i'm gonna do after i gradurate from home schooleing i might go to vol state collage for a couple of years, or i might study computers or didgital photogorfy, i'm not sure yet

Wade, are you saying that you've had little schooling in the last 6 years?
Have you not been assessed by the state since?

[Wade91]

Wade, are you saying that you've had little schooling in the last 6 years?
Have you not been assessed by the state since?
well, the home schooleing accadimy that i'm enroled in has tests from time to time i've had two so far and i have another one tomarrow, i have scored pretty far below my grade level in most subjects in those two tests i've had but who cares!? :p

[Jag_Warrior]

well, my mom was still my only teacher after she started working 6 years ago but of cource she hasn't really had time for this homeschooleing stuff sence then, which is awesome for me becouse that means that theres nobody left to teach me ;)

i'm actually still 17 i wont be 18 for a few more months, i'm not sure what i'm gonna do after i gradurate from home schooleing i might go to vol state collage for a couple of years, or i might study computers or didgital photogorfy, i'm not sure yet

So what issues did your mother have with the public schools in your area? What was so bad that she'd allow you to just hang loose from the age of 11 on, and basically not receive any sort of education? Just curious.

[Wade91]

So what issues did your mother have with the public schools in your area? What was so bad that she'd allow you to just hang loose from the age of 11 on, and basically not receive any sort of education? Just curious.
well, it was ofcource a long time ago when i starded home schoole, i'm not sure what "exact" problems she had with the schoole system that time, it doesn't matter much now anyway though becouse i like home schooleing anyway just becouse of the freedom :p

also, i sopose maybe my mom didn't wanna deal with this local schoole here sence she was a teacher there for a very little time before she got laid off becouse she was the newest teacher there and another teacher getting a transfer from another schoole needed a spot there

[Easy Drifter]

I am not surprised you are failing in your home schooling. At a quick read through of your last posting I spotted 20 errors in either spelling or grammar.
You stated earlier you were too lazy to use spell check.
Your obvious lack of a proper education and attitude are a tremendous advertisement against home schooling.
I also wonder about your mother when she has allowed you to basically do nothing for the last 6 years, as it is quite clear you have made little, if any, effort to learn.
It also occured to me there may be another reason your mother is no longer teaching and it has nothing to do with seniority.
I expect you will find it almost impossible to obtain any sort of a decent job or gain addmission to any school of higher learning.
Not just your clear lack of schooling but your attitude are against you.
I certainly hope you have at least a litle more mathematical ability and understanding of basic science than you have demonstrated in your inability to write and spell.
I have not seen you partaking in any of the serious discussions regarding world affairs. You may have but I cannot recall any posts. Do you have any knowledge of world affairs?
Could you even tell us who were the main contenders in the last US election for President and Vice President?
Could you tell us what countries' borders touch the US and what other major country has territory within just a few miles of the US?
Do you know which country is the largest trading partner of the US.
I will be very interested in your response.

[Wade91]

I am not surprised you are failing in your home schooling. At a quick read through of your last posting I spotted 20 errors in either spelling or grammar.
You stated earlier you were too lazy to use spell check.
Your obvious lack of a proper education and attitude are a tremendous advertisement against home schooling.
I also wonder about your mother when she has allowed you to basically do nothing for the last 6 years, as it is quite clear you have made little, if any, effort to learn.
It also occured to me there may be another reason your mother is no longer teaching and it has nothing to do with seniority.
I expect you will find it almost impossible to obtain any sort of a decent job or gain addmission to any school of higher learning.
Not just your clear lack of schooling but your attitude are against you.
I certainly hope you have at least a litle more mathematical ability and understanding of basic science than you have demonstrated in your inability to write and spell.
I have not seen you partaking in any of the serious discussions regarding world affairs. You may have but I cannot recall any posts. Do you have any knowledge of world affairs?
Could you even tell us who were the main contenders in the last US election for President and Vice President?
Could you tell us what countries' borders touch the US and what other major country has territory within just a few miles of the US?
Do you know which country is the largest trading partner of the US.
I will be very interested in your response.
well, i do keep up with news and stuff not as much as i do racing, football, and music, but i dont live under a rock :p

i think a can answear you're queastions :)

i took quite a bit of intreast in the US elections but i wasn't on this forum yet when they were going on, but i was happy to see Barock Obama win over John McCain :)

Mexico and Canada touch the US borders :)

and i sopose China is the largest tradeing partner with the US

[Magnus]

Barock Obama
Eeeeh... uh... Maybe it could be wade91 that you suffer from dyslexia? Your spelling is interesting even for me, and I am from Sweden.
well well: there are a lot of great jobs out there even if one cant spel.
I might add though, that no matter what you want to be, knowledge about different areas of life helps a lot. You don´t have to be clever, as long as you have the will. Ok, it could help a bit maybe ;)
Good luck to you!

[Wade91]

Barock Obama
Eeeeh... uh... Maybe it could be wade91 that you suffer from dyslexia? Your spelling is interesting even for me, and I am from Sweden.
well well: there are a lot of great jobs out there even if one cant spel.
I might add though, that no matter what you want to be, knowledge about different areas of life helps a lot. You don´t have to be clever, as long as you have the will. Ok, it could help a bit maybe ;)
Good luck to you!
no, i dont have dyslexia :p

thanks for your post though :)

[Jag_Warrior]

Last two questions, Wade. Are you and your mother native English speakers? I mean, were you born here and has your mother lived here for some time? Do you have some learning issues that you may not want to talk about here?

And last question, are you goofing us? Once a person has seen a word spelled correctly ("school") and continues to misspell it ("schoole") - ya know, I've got to wonder... you are goofing us, aren't ya? ;)

[Firstgear]

Wade91 has been taking some heat here for his spelling. I'd like to comment on this. My brother is a high school teacher, and he tells me that many kids in high school these days have problems with proper spelling. These kids have grown up with texting on phones & email, where short cuts in spelling are the norm. These spelling habits are hard for kids to break.

So Wade91's poor spelling may not be a true indication of where he is in his schooling. In a teachers mind, proper spelling is way down the list from where it used to be years ago. (well accrording to my brother)

I'd like to add though (and sorry if I sound like I'm lecturing here Wade91) that his attitude towards school & learning worries me. Wade91 do you ever compare where you're at in terms of schooling, with your friends that go to regular public school? If not, maybe you should, to see how you stack up. Living a "Huck Finn" childhood is great, but you're going to have to grow up eventually. When you do, you're going to need discipline & structure if you want to make it through college. These things come much easier if learnt & practiced at a younger age.

All the best & good luck Wade91

[schmenke]

Wtf r u tlking abt 1stgr?

[Firstgear]

Schmenke were you home schooled too?

[schmenke]

I don't think that concept existed "back in my days"... :uhoh:

[Easy Drifter]

Well, Wade in your short response to me I counted another 19 errrors.
You also did not answer who the VP candidates were or what country has territory within a few miles of the US.
China is not the biggest trading partner of the US by a long way.
Canada is.
Another question. From what country does the US obtain most of its imported oil and natural gas?
Yet another. Are there any countries with troops in Afganistan aside from the US forces? If so could you name 2 countries?
These are simple questions that most people could answer with no problem.

[Alexamateo]

http://tnhomeed.com/

FWIW, here's information on Homeschooling in Tennessee. In the FAQ's section there is a question that is pertinent to young Wade's situation:



25. I know a family that is not actually educating their children. What can I do? Who do I call?
:p :

There's some kids in our neighborhood that are being homeschooled and they seem to me reasonably well-adjusted. I know here they do have social events and field trips for home schooled kids and even some sports teams. In fact one home-schooled kid in town even got a basketball scholarship to a Division 1 school.

We won't home school though, my wife can't wait for the little buggers to be out of the house! :D

[donKey jote]

Afganistan

donkhey ! :p : :laugh: ;)

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[Easy Drifter]

Oooooops!!!

[Camelopard]

Well, Wade in your short response to me I counted another 19 errrors.
You also did not answer who the VP candidates were or what country has territory within a few miles of the US.
China is not the biggest trading partner of the US by a long way.
Canada is.
Another question. From what country does the US obtain most of its imported oil and natural gas?
Yet another. Are there any countries with troops in Afganistan aside from the US forces? If so could you name 2 countries?
These are simple questions that most people could answer with no problem.

Even though I still think this is a wind up, I don't think as a 17 or 18 year old I could have named Australia's major trading partners and even now I would have said that China is the USA's major partner.

I also feel that quite a few 17 or 18 year old kids in the US or Australia would be unable to name other countries involved in Afghanistan (and as an aside, to mind and way of thinking you yourself have an entirely unhealthy obsession with the place. Do have relatives serving there?).

You could ask him who the main supporters and funders of the Taliban and the anti Soviet forces in Afghanistan in the 1980s were. I'm sure most Americans and Australians regardless of age wouldn't know.

As another aside a comedy programme here in Australia called "The Chaser's War on Everything" asked some people in New York what day did the 9/11 incidents happen. I'm sure they culled everyone who stated correctly but quite a few didn't know the correct date!, the mind boggles(!).

I guess the oil and gas question is another trick question, I'm presuming Canada, although I probably would have said Saudi Arabia hence the USA's constant appeasment of the Kingdom when most of the people involved in 9/11 came from there including 'the big one'.

Again I can only point out examples that my wife has given me of people from the US and their lack of common knowledge when they visit Canada. In Vancouver especially when she was working at the EXPO there. Supposedly educated people not understanding that in Canada they use metrics, being asked if she lived in an igloo, not understanding that Canada has a different currency, being told she spoke very good English and being asked what she spoke at home and so on. I'm sure a lot of people in the US would regard Canada as just another state!

So all in all I really don't think Wade is alone in his lack of common knowledge at his age, my experience with children of that age says they are more interested in their sex life (or lack there of), computer games and the latest highest rating TV programmes that are currently showing.

Again I have seen kids working in shops that can't do simple arithmetic and can't spell, we have had university graduates working with us who can't spell and can't write long hand. why? I guess because of the use of computers and spell checkers and the like.

Most kids of that age here would be rather watching the Simpsons than the news. This can even be said for most of the forty and fifty year olds that I work with, they would watch jag, house, nics or any other escapist programing rather than any news programme or documentary that may be on. Their idea of current events is watching reality TV!

[leopard]

I am afraid of misspelling Wade and other members made for the fonts used is too small ;)

[Jag_Warrior]

Even though I still think this is a wind up,

Yep, the same feeling I'm getting...



As another aside a comedy programme here in Australia called "The Chaser's War on Everything"

G4TV plays that show here. I've not seen a complete episode, but it's based on people getting the wool pulled over their eyes, yes?

I figure our pal Wade likes that show. Heck, he might be producing an episode right now. :dozey:

[Easy Drifter]

I'm beginning to agree and will admit, if that is the case, he took me in.
He has spelt some difficult words correctly. :o

[Camelopard]

Yep, the same feeling I'm getting...




G4TV plays that show here. I've not seen a complete episode, but it's based on people getting the wool pulled over their eyes, yes?

I figure our pal Wade likes that show. Heck, he might be producing an episode right now. :dozey:

It's more of a comedy show based on current news events. their most famous episode was when they gate crashed an APEC meeting in Sydney pretending to be Canadians. They were all arrested as there were very severe penalties put in place to combat any possible demonstrations by the Liberal (read ultra conservative!) government. Fortunately common sense prevailed and the charges were dropped.

Here it is: enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdnAaQ0n5-8


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/09/06/2026372.htm

and for those on here that hate wikipedia, here is that link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chaser_APEC_pranks


Here is the link to the 9/11 questions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv8yLT6jM04

[Wade91]

Last two questions, Wade. Are you and your mother native English speakers? I mean, were you born here and has your mother lived here for some time? Do you have some learning issues that you may not want to talk about here?

And last question, are you goofing us? Once a person has seen a word spelled correctly ("school") and continues to misspell it ("schoole") - ya know, I've got to wonder... you are goofing us, aren't ya? ;)
yeah, we are both native english speakers we have lived in this country all our lives, no, i dont really think i have any issues with my learning

and sorry i didn't really pay any attenion to how "school" was spelled in the thread title,

like i said, i'm to lazy to use spell check and such, but no, i'm not trying to like play dumb or anything

[Wade91]

Wade91 has been taking some heat here for his spelling. I'd like to comment on this. My brother is a high school teacher, and he tells me that many kids in high school these days have problems with proper spelling. These kids have grown up with texting on phones & email, where short cuts in spelling are the norm. These spelling habits are hard for kids to break.

So Wade91's poor spelling may not be a true indication of where he is in his schooling. In a teachers mind, proper spelling is way down the list from where it used to be years ago. (well accrording to my brother)

I'd like to add though (and sorry if I sound like I'm lecturing here Wade91) that his attitude towards school & learning worries me. Wade91 do you ever compare where you're at in terms of schooling, with your friends that go to regular public school? If not, maybe you should, to see how you stack up. Living a "Huck Finn" childhood is great, but you're going to have to grow up eventually. When you do, you're going to need discipline & structure if you want to make it through college. These things come much easier if learnt & practiced at a younger age.

All the best & good luck Wade91
thanks :) yeah, i know if i deside to take a couple of years or whatever at vol state collage its not exactlly gonna be easy, atleast it could have quite a bit of benifit though,

[Wade91]

Well, Wade in your short response to me I counted another 19 errrors.
You also did not answer who the VP candidates were or what country has territory within a few miles of the US.
China is not the biggest trading partner of the US by a long way.
Canada is.
Another question. From what country does the US obtain most of its imported oil and natural gas?
Yet another. Are there any countries with troops in Afganistan aside from the US forces? If so could you name 2 countries?
These are simple questions that most people could answer with no problem.
yeah, the VP candidates were Shara Palin and Joe Biden, it would be almost impossable to have followed the elections at all and not know that, however i really dont see what all that other stuff has to do with anything :confused:

[Wade91]

Even though I still think this is a wind up, I don't think as a 17 or 18 year old I could have named Australia's major trading partners and even now I would have said that China is the USA's major partner.

I also feel that quite a few 17 or 18 year old kids in the US or Australia would be unable to name other countries involved in Afghanistan (and as an aside, to mind and way of thinking you yourself have an entirely unhealthy obsession with the place. Do have relatives serving there?).

You could ask him who the main supporters and funders of the Taliban and the anti Soviet forces in Afghanistan in the 1980s were. I'm sure most Americans and Australians regardless of age wouldn't know.

As another aside a comedy programme here in Australia called "The Chaser's War on Everything" asked some people in New York what day did the 9/11 incidents happen. I'm sure they culled everyone who stated correctly but quite a few didn't know the correct date!, the mind boggles(!).

I guess the oil and gas question is another trick question, I'm presuming Canada, although I probably would have said Saudi Arabia hence the USA's constant appeasment of the Kingdom when most of the people involved in 9/11 came from there including 'the big one'.

Again I can only point out examples that my wife has given me of people from the US and their lack of common knowledge when they visit Canada. In Vancouver especially when she was working at the EXPO there. Supposedly educated people not understanding that in Canada they use metrics, being asked if she lived in an igloo, not understanding that Canada has a different currency, being told she spoke very good English and being asked what she spoke at home and so on. I'm sure a lot of people in the US would regard Canada as just another state!

So all in all I really don't think Wade is alone in his lack of common knowledge at his age, my experience with children of that age says they are more interested in their sex life (or lack there of), computer games and the latest highest rating TV programmes that are currently showing.

Again I have seen kids working in shops that can't do simple arithmetic and can't spell, we have had university graduates working with us who can't spell and can't write long hand. why? I guess because of the use of computers and spell checkers and the like.

Most kids of that age here would be rather watching the Simpsons than the news. This can even be said for most of the forty and fifty year olds that I work with, they would watch jag, house, nics or any other escapist programing rather than any news programme or documentary that may be on. Their idea of current events is watching reality TV!
yeah, i mean i read a fair amount of news on the internet but i just pick and choose the storys i'm interested in, which mostly dont have a whole lot to do with world affairs

[fandango]

Easy Drifter: Get off your high horse and check your own spelling etc. In the spirit of "he" and "the first stone" and all that.

Wade91: Make sure you help your mom out when you can, and work a bit, or even a lot, more on the details. This will help you in life. You may get a better job, or a better education as a result. It will also help you to get laid more (first lesson there: read everything to the end).

[Eki]

A bit off topic, but consistent with my claims that the US is stubborn and refuses to learn from other countries, according to the Wall Street Journal, the US could boost its GDP by about 16% if it learned from the education systems of such countries as Finland and South Korea:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124040633530943487.html#mod=WSJ_topics_obama


Study Tallies Education Gap's Effect on GDP

By ROBERT TOMSHO

Closing the educational-achievement gap between the U.S. and higher-performing nations such as Finland and South Korea could boost U.S. gross domestic product by as much as $2.3 trillion, or about 16%, according to a new study by McKinsey & Co., the international consulting concern.

The report, which used a formula McKinsey helped develop to link educational achievement to economic output, also estimated closing the gap in the U.S. between white students and their black and Latino peers could increase annual GDP by as much as an additional $525 billion, or about 4%.

In its report, McKinsey said existing achievement gaps have "created the equivalent of a permanent, deep recession in terms of the gap between actual and potential output in the economy."

The report is one of the first to try to put a price tag on educational disparities. It focuses on what might have happened economically if the U.S. had closed various achievement gaps by 1998, 15 years after a federal commission released "A Nation At Risk," a report that warned of a "rising tide of mediocrity" in American education.

That 1983 report helped pave the way for the 2001 passage of the federal No Child Left Behind act, which requires all U.S. students to be proficient in reading and math by 2014 and levies increasingly stiff sanctions on schools that fail to make adequate progress toward those goals.

Achievement gaps persist between America's white students and black and Latino students, and U.S. students overall have fallen behind those in other countries on test scores. On the 2006 Program for International Student Assessment, a respected international comparison of 15-year-olds, the U.S. ranked 25th of 30 nations in math, behind the likes of Norway and Spain. In the 2006 PISA assessment for science, the U.S. ranked 24th, behind Luxembourg and the Slovak Republic.

With employers complaining that the U.S. isn't producing a workforce that is internationally competitive, the Obama administration has called for states to boost their educational standards, toughen their achievement tests and encourage more students to attend and graduate from college.

In another measure, the report estimated that if the performance of students from families earning less than $25,000 a year had been raised to those from families earning more than that, annual GDP would have increased by as much as $670 billion, or 5%.

The report suggested that racial gaps in the U.S. are surmountable, noting that eighth-grade Latino students in Ohio outperform white students in reading in 13 other states on the National Assessment of Educational Progress, a national achievement test.

[Alexamateo]

The problem in not that the US is stubborn and refuses to learn from other countries. The problem is the culture of the black and Latino communities.

I believe that Michelle Obama recently touched on this when she spoke of being taunted when young for "talking like a white girl." For boys, it's even worse as the gangster/rap culture ridicules any sort of scholastic achievement.

On the Latino side, it's the refusal to fully immerse in the culture of the country that they are in, to be true to La Raza, and not assimilate. Now I can appreciate wanting to preserve parts of your culture, (my wife is Latina, and I am fluent in Spanish, so we try to speak Spanish in the home so the children grow up bi-lingual), but just because you "gringocize" as my wife would say, it doesn't mean your not being true to your home culture.

All the money, programs, systems, or whatever in the world won't do a bit of good until the black and hispanic communities within the US change their own culture from within.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Well Schmenke, if you had only Wade to point to as your example, I would find a good public school and forget the whole idea. However, I think there are two very important realities to homeschool that give the kids a leg up in a sense. One: You can control the curriculum. Not that the kids don't learn in public school, but some teachers teach stuff that ISNT supposed to be taught. Your values are reinforced strongly EVERY day. Two: You learn very quickly just how smart your kids are in a real sense, and perhaps just how smart YOU are. I know I look at anything above a grade 6 level in math text's and I start to sweat. By the time they hit high school their math skills will blow mine away. I was always strong in language and communications, social studies, geography and history; plus industrial arts. About the only subject I ever struggled with was Math. Heck, I even did ok at Chemistry and rudimentry physics. If you are going to home school your kids, or your wife, realize your limitations. Understand when the kids get to around 10 to 12, your going to have to either be with them on the program, or get them back into the education system to teach what you cannot.

A friend of the family who grew up with my brother has homeschooled his kids up to grade 8. It is at that point, he knew they needed socialization and the subjects he and his wife were not comfortable with. However, at age 14, he had given them good values, put his moral stamp on them, and he can feel comfortable in their using what he gave them to negotiate high school. He like you has little faith in the public school system, but he knew most of his objections had more to do with the value system and lack of attention the kids would get. Once they hit Jr. High or High school, it is time for them to start to stand on their own...

[Mark in Oshawa]

Wade..as for you. Your spelling errors constantly just make you look like an idiot. I don't use spell check because for the most part I don't require it. It also doesn't correct grammar errors.

Spellcheck is a curse.

On the boards, I sometimes will make typo or spelling errors, but I think I can make my points clear, and I certainly do care about spelling correctly.

As for you Wade, from your posts on this topic and on others, I wouldn't hire you to deliver newspapers, much less hire you for a job. Your posts have constantly shown a lack of care for anything. IN short, your attitude sucks.

That is fine when mom is looking after you, but at some point, you are going to enter the real world, and unless you want to have to say "do you want fries with that" 100 times a day, I would suggest you start communicating at a level that will allow people to decide you are an idiot or not; as opposed to now where we are left little doubt.

As for Drifter's questions...well most Americans fail those...he forgets I think the lack of awareness anyone under the age of 20 has for world events, world politics and geography.

[Jag_Warrior]

While I agree with Alex that within the U.S. the gap between certain groups might be explained by how much one culture or another values education or has assimilated, the point remains that overall the U.S. badly trails other developed nations in math and science. One could exclude the lower performing Black and Latino students and the U.S. might rise slightly in the international rankings. But what if one then excluded the higher performing Asian-American students? We'd probably drop back to the same positions, if not drop even lower.

The UC colleges have received a fair amount of criticism over the past few years because of a change in admission standards, which (purposefully or by coincidence) are projected to decrease the number of Asian students (nearly 36% of UC students are Asian) and increase the number of White students (currently at 34%). The number of Black students will remain largely unchanged at 4-5%. And the number of Hispanic students also won't change much from the current 19-20%. Some claim this is discrimination based on Asian students being disproportionately represented in the UC system, and dominating math and science courses - just as they do in many other parts of the U.S. Based on what I've read, I tend to agree with the critics of this change: I don't believe in excluding higher performers just so lower performers can be better represented. As was said in the piece that Eki posted, I do believe we are facing (if not embracing) a "rising tide of mediocrity".

Assuming his story is true, our friend Wade here doesn't understand what his lack of education is going to mean for his future. Just based on what little interaction I have with younger people, I don't feel that Wade is all that unique. I don't believe he represents the norm. But I also don't believe that his attitude is that far from the lower/middle of the bell curve. Maybe we shouldn't go so far as Japan, where more than a few kids commit suicide when they don't perform well academically. But we have kids who (as Alex said) attack students just for making an effort to learn. And here in the U.S., being a slacker is either funny or makes you a hero of sorts. Look at poor Wade. He thinks it's cool to be a slacker who doesn't have to study. Our society makes fun of kids who study or possess an above average intellect: "nerd", "Poindexter", "geek", "Webster", "book worm", "teacher's pet", etc.

My mother was a teacher. She retired when I was born. She did some substitute teaching, but not that much. She felt that there was too much focus on lower performing students, and not enough on higher performing students in the public schools in the area where we lived. My aunt retired from teaching in California about a decade ago. Had she not been allowed to teach advanced placement classes, she would have retired long before she did. She wasn't going to deal with the nose-pickers who populate the back rows of public school classrooms either. My ex-fiance was getting her Masters in Education when I met her. She did a (very) short stint as a student teacher in a public school. Her problem was her appearance: imagine Salma Hayek with slightly shorter hair. She apparently had the same affect on the boys in her classes as she had on me - she was truly a Latina fantasy (can't say I blamed those boys). But because the administration couldn't control the desk monkeys in heat, she left the public school after a few weeks and began teaching at a private academy. There, the children were much more focused on the task at hand: learning. And yeah, they also came from higher socio-economic backgrounds.

But as a country, I believe we've gone off track regarding education. IMO, we worry WAY too much about how lil Johnny and lil Susie feel about themselves, and not whether they can perform "readin', writin' and 'rithmatic". We're raising a nation of lazy, overweight, junk food scarfing, Ritlan filled, video game playin', rap music singin', unemployable dummies in the U.S... but who have really high self esteem. :rolleyes:

[Eki]

While I agree with Alex that within the U.S. the gap between certain groups might be explained by how much one culture or another values education or has assimilated, the point remains that overall the U.S. badly trails other developed nations in math and science. One could exclude the lower performing Black and Latino students and the U.S. might rise slightly in the international rankings. But what if one then excluded the higher performing Asian-American students? We'd probably drop back to the same positions, if not drop even lower.

My friend, a PhD in chemistry, did her postgraduate studies in an American university. She was teaching undergraduate students and was surprised how little they knew about physics and chemistry when they came from high school.

The US has probably some of the best universities in the world but it seems to me that they fail to raise talents for those universities and instead import them. I once read that majority of the postgraduate students in engineering and economics in American universities were foreigners. It was some years ago, so I don't know what's the situation now. It also seems that the gap between individuals is huge. The US raises an occasional "Einstein" but they have a lot of "Homer Simpsons" too.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I wont speak to the US school system. I have to say though as someone who travels America on a regular basis, it likely has been in decline for a while based on some of the ding dongs I have met, but then again, I have met some truly bright people driving trucks too. I know Americans are not predisposed to be dumb or stupid, but people can read into any culture what they want based on the man on the street by one bad experience.

No, the thread, home schooling or not? Schmenke's little guys are faced with what he see's as a public school system that isn't meeting what Schmenke feels is his needs. He will pull his kids out of that system and home school them while still paying taxes to that system. THAT is a big step. Many parents are doing it. Why? As the reasons Jag stated above. Modern education in Canada and in the US caters more to the concept of not hurting the kid's self esteem and making life easier for the teachers in the system than actually giving the kids the building blocks of an education. The ability to do math ( something that some really good math teachers couldn't give me, I am clueless on the advanced concepts of calculus and algebra), the ability to reason, the ability to communicate, and a good knowledge of the physical world around us, and the culture of the country we are growing up in. That should be the basics.

Yet we have teachers in some schools using their classroom as a political platform. That is wrong. We have teachers who are willing to go on strike in Toronto this spring for the right to NOT have to do more on duty time in the school NOT teaching ( watching the kids at lunch, patrolling the halls, etc.). This in a time where many of the parents of the kids are fighting to hold onto their jobs. We have teachers who fight against mandatory testing. We have teachers who refuse to be judged on any way on merit. All of this on top of the fact that North Americans spend more on public education through their tax base on average than in other nations such as Japan or Germany where the kids are getting better results.

So the problem lies in the bureacracy of the educational system and the teacher's unions who have created this work climate. This isn't an attack on teachers themselves. Most are excellent and in my 5 years of high school ( In Ontario when I was of that age, we had Grades 9 to 13, with 13 being a prepschool grade for higher education) I can say I only had 2 really BAD teachers. Yet they got paid the same as the rest. I had teachers who infused a love of learning and brought out my interest in communicating effectively ( she probably would be horrified by my efforts on here!). I suppose in some ways I have let them down but they did their job. Now many are feeling schools are not doing their job. For as many parents to feel that way and look at home schooling or private schools should be telling our politicians something, but alas, they are in bed with the same numbnuts who have created this kleptocracy of learning.

I don't blame the kids. I blame the parents of kids who don't raise them or give them values worth having. Wade seems to be a product of inattention and disinterest. I blame him for his attitude but he shouldn't have been raised to believe being a slacker is "cool" in the first place.

That said, the danger of home schooling your kids is large. You could raise kids who don't socialize well ( although I think as long as they are outside and hanging out with the other kids after school, this effect is negligible), you could raise kids that try to reenter the school stream and find it hard to cope later on, and you could find it too much work and end up depriving your kids of the education you hope to give them.

The pitfalls of home schooling are there, so it isn't a light decision. I respect Schmenke for doing the research ( I suspect he wont make this one based on us dumb dumbs on here or Wade's posts ) and asking questions. He has the right attitude to do this. That said, I know of one instance of home schooling, and where I think it is best is in the junior grades from about 2 through to 6. You have to give the kids some time in the public schools for kindergarten through to maybe grade 1 or 2. If the local school board is doing things you don't like, then you have to make the call to do home schooling. That said, as the kids hit an age where the subjects are pretty much at a point where you are re educating yourself to teach them, you have to make the decision to put the kids back into the system. By this point, you have infused your values in the kids and explained to them the reason why they were at home for that last 6 years. You have explained to them that their education is the one thing that will allow them to accomplish goals that don't involve serving fries at McDonalds or working the drive through at the donut shop down the street.

My working class parents encouraged me to do more than just be a slug. I sort of didn't do that but I have an education and have had a few careers. I understand that nothing worth having in life should be easy, and I understood you have to work for things. I don't feel the educational bureaucracies reinforce these values enough now, so I can understand the need for home schooling.

I just hope that anyone who does it, doesn't take it lightly. For as much as I have "bashed" the system, I also realize teaching kids (I mean really teaching them as an educator) is a tough job, and if you fail, it is your kids that pay the price.

[donKey jote]

Home schooling is against the law in Germany. There was a case recently where a few families had to emigrate to the US for the right to homeschool and to avoid going to jail and/or losing custody over their kids...
In the US, it appears, they are "free" to brainwash their kids with their ultra-christian "morals". :dozey:

[Jag_Warrior]

Home schooling is against the law in Germany. There was a case recently where a few families had to emigrate to the US for the right to homeschool and to avoid going to jail and/or losing custody over their kids...
In the US, it appears, they are "free" to brainwash their kids with their ultra-christian "morals". :dozey:

To be fair, donKey, I believe it is ultimately up to the parents (and not the state) to raise the child and help form his belief system.

I don't have children. But if I did, I would want my child to be receiving the best instructions in academic subjects while at school, not being socially indoctrinated... whatever the idealogy might be.

We see an example here of a complete failing of home schooling. I don't know if this case is an exception, or closer to the rule.

[Easy Drifter]

Jag: I do not think it is the failure of home schooling in general. It has failed in this case because the actual formal home schooling stopped several years ago and a young person was left on his own to learn with no controls. Yes, the material was provided but it seems there was no effort made to ensure that person was completing the lessons.
I do not like saying this but I feel it was a parenting failure more than anything, in that no pride in good work has been installed.
Personally I am against home schooling but I will also admit I have seen it work.
Easy for me to say as I have no kids, to speak of.

[donKey jote]

To be fair, donKey, I believe it is ultimately up to the parents (and not the state) to raise the child and help form his belief system.
I agree :up:
However, just because your kid is "yours" doesn't mean you're free to abuse or neglect it, and the state (our representatives) does have the responsibility to care for it's underage citizens.
In this case in Germany, the parents didn't want their kids influenced by "people who didn't care about the bible". Similar to strict muslim parents not happy about swimming classes. :p :
I simply strongly believe all aspects of religious indoctrination -be it Creationism or Sharia- should be kept out of the public or state subsidised classrooms. That would be what Sunday schools are for ;) .

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[Jag_Warrior]

Jag: I do not think it is the failure of home schooling in general. It has failed in this case because the actual formal home schooling stopped several years ago and a young person was left on his own to learn with no controls. Yes, the material was provided but it seems there was no effort made to ensure that person was completing the lessons.
I do not like saying this but I feel it was a parenting failure more than anything, in that no pride in good work has been installed.
Personally I am against home schooling but I will also admit I have seen it work.
Easy for me to say as I have no kids, to speak of.

I agree that the problem in this one case is a parenting failure. But there also seems to be a system failure, in that Tennessee doesn't seem to have a check & balance system that would identify a 17 year old who spells at probably a 2nd or 3rd grade level.

I'm still not convinced that he's not goofing on us. But assuming his story is true, I wonder how many others there are just like him (if not worse) in that state?

I guess I don't have very strong feelings one way or the other on home schooling. But even in a bad public school system, I think the parent/teacher still must prove he or she has basic qualifications to teach.

[Jag_Warrior]

I agree :up:
However, just because your kid is "yours" doesn't mean you're free to abuse or neglect it, and the state (our representatives) does have the responsibility to care for it's underage citizens.
In this case in Germany, the parents didn't want their kids influenced by "people who didn't care about the bible". Similar to strict muslim parents not happy about swimming classes. :p :
I simply strongly believe all aspects of religious indoctrination -be it Creationism or Sharia- should be kept out of the public or state subsidised classrooms. That would be what Sunday schools are for ;) .

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

Oh, I agree that the state shouldn't allow (true) abuse. But our failing in the U.S. is that so many of our kids can't read, speak or spell in English (or even Spanish). In math and science, our kids are pulling up the rear. It's just sad... it really is.

I went with a friend of mine to pick up her kid after school a year or so ago. I was amazed at all of the little, fat people that were wobbling out to cars and buses to go home. Her kid is a little on the chubby side too. And I know it's because he stays glued to his video game console, and doesn't get any (real) exercise, as kids did when I was a youngster.

But looking at those kids made me think of a paraphrase of a line from Animal House: "fat and dumb is no way to go through life."

[schmenke]

...Schmenke's little guys are faced with what he see's as a public school system that isn't meeting what Schmenke feels is his needs. ...

I never said that.
I never had any intention of having my kids home-schooled. Although I consider both myself and my wife slightly better edumacated than the average Joe/Jane Smith, I would never think of ourselves qualified to provide instruction and on-going evaluation to students. I'll leave this up to professional teaching staff at the local public school board.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Anyone here been "home schooled"?
Anyone know someone who has been?
Just curious as to opinions? Are our local public school systems so inadequate that parents consider home schooling a better alternative?

(Caoline?...)

I'm a result of public schooling and, although no Einstein, I figure I turned out o.k. :mark:
\
I misunderstood your intentions. No problem. I think after some thought, I am thinking the only people who are serious about home schooling are often leary of the libreal attitude of teachers that clashes with a religious component. Donkey is correct in that religion should NOT be part of schooling, BUT then there has to be a very fine line that must not be crossed on the teaching side on morality and some aspects of current events. Teachers can be politically doctrinating students on issues that are NOT anything but opinion. We have seen instances of teachers in Ontario being encouraged to rail against the Premier of the province at a time when they were fighting with the government mainly on political grounds. Not all teachers followed it, many condemned the union's stance, but there were a number who brought politics into the classroom.

If we are not going to have religion in the room, we better not present one side of political thought either. It is a delicate balance and I don't always see teachers understanding the implications of taking sides.

[schmenke]

\
.... Donkey is correct in that religion should NOT be part of schooling, ....

Agree 100%. Although this cowtown in which currently I live is so archaic that we still have denominational based school boards :s

[Mark in Oshawa]

Agree 100%. Although this cowtown in which currently I live is so archaic that we still have denominational based school boards :s

Schmenke....Quebec still has it, Newfouldland still have them and so does Ontario. The Catholic School boards are a unique Canadian thing that I think has outlived its usefulness but alas, no one has the guts to bell that cat.

[schmenke]

Schmenke....Quebec still has it, Newfouldland still have them and so does Ontario. The Catholic School boards are a unique Canadian thing that I think has outlived its usefulness but alas, no one has the guts to bell that cat.

Quebec dropped the denominational based system years ago and adopted a linguistic system, i.e. seperate French and English school boards.
Didn't realise that other provinces still has it though... I figured it was limited to Alberta, the bible-belt of Canada :dozey:

[Easy Drifter]

In Ontario the Public School System and the Carholic School System are in theory, at least, equally funded by the Province. Much of the reason (Blame?) was the UN.
John Tory the leader of the Conservative Party went for equal funding for all religous schools with the public system in the last Provincial election.
The Conservatives got slaughtered by the voters and he couldn't even win his own seat. He recently ran in a by-election in a Conservative stronghold and LOST. He has stepped down as leader.

[Mark in Oshawa]

In Ontario the Public School System and the Carholic School System are in theory, at least, equally funded by the Province. Much of the reason (Blame?) was the UN.
John Tory the leader of the Conservative Party went for equal funding for all religous schools with the public system in the last Provincial election.
The Conservatives got slaughtered by the voters and he couldn't even win his own seat. He recently ran in a by-election in a Conservative stronghold and LOST. He has stepped down as leader.

I blame the BNA Act of 1867. That is where is starts. The UN I believe condemned the practice of having a publically funded school system with a religious affiliation, although to be fair, the RC system in Ontario is basically 95% the same in curriculum as the regular secular system, save one class of religion a week, and rules on uniforms and having Catholic teachers.

[Easy Drifter]

True.