Safety Car starts...

[Somebody]

Anyone else think that there should be a limit of one lap behind the Safety Car in the event of the race starting behind the SC? (in effect, having the formation lap behind the SC, followed by a rolling rather than standing start) And, if they expect it to take more than one lap for the SC to come in, then the start should be delayed until it's conceivable that it should be the case - in turn, if something happens within the first two racing laps that shows it's unsafe to continue, then the original start should be voided and all cars capable of doing so should return to their original grid slots for the starting procedure to begin again as soon as it's safe to do so.

[Because a SC coming out and staying out for a while in the middle of a race is forgivable. But starting behind a SC is absolutely pointless - indeed, I think what I'm suggesting was mostly what the regs said until a couple of seasons ago...]

[woody2goody]

Excellent idea. I agree that it would be potential mayhem at the first corner, and that's why the SC is brought out, but in my opinion, if the conditions are good enough to start the race at all, they should be racing after one, MAXIMUM two laps.

[mgreb]

I disagree. The start today while taking a few laps, got the race started both safely as possible in the wet and got it started on time. To limit the sc to one or two laps could have been unsafe, and The rain wasn't going anywere so delaying the start would have been pointless.

[big_sw2000]

What would you like, a pile up in the 1st corner. In the dramer, one car goes over another, and another car ends up upside down. (Both very dangerous crashes for the drivers). Or maybe we could have a Spa syle crash, where 3/4 of the field is wiped out.

Motor racing is dangerous, we all except that, but if it can be made less dangerous, maybe by following the safty car for a few laps. Espically as none of them drivers had driven the track in the rain. Then all the good. I will admit its a bit boring to watch, but its safty first.

[leopard]

It could be the best compromise how long SC stays at the track in front of all cars taking the grid between its effectiveness to avoid accident involving too much cars which may evoke race postponed or red-flagged, as usually drivers drive aggressively at the start, and to keep the race attractive. Deploying SC should be prudently taken into consideration, too long or too much SC deployed into the race may disturb quintessence of the race, while SC becomes a must whenever the race and drivers are considered to be in jeopardy.

I think, starting the race behind SC guidance for first few laps is already right in place if it rains before the race commenced. Besides it was to avoid accident once the red light off, it helps the track went dry at some extent, it was also useful to make drivers getting used to drive in safe mode for remaining laps from being procession behind SC for some period at the start drive within speed it is considered safe.

[cosmicpanda]

Maybe a formation lap behind the safety car and a rolling start would work in bad conditions like yesterday?

[Knock-on]

If it's safe to start the race, then start the race. If not, then don't start the race.

Conditions didn't change much between starting the race under safety car and the race propper did they?

I agree that if they are going to start, then 2 sighting laps maximum and off they go.

[leopard]

The difference I think SC start has less probability of accident usually happens when drivers are entering first corner. If this happens there will be more drivers retired early.
We don't know exactly when the rain ends if the start has to be delayed. We might not want race approaching late afternoon with rain for the delay.

The rough forecast can help probably typical of cloud, rains with white and evenly spread out cloud usually ends longer than the darker cloud ..., just start the race right on time.

[stevie_gerrard]

You cannot release the safety car when its not safe to race. It is a frustrating start waiting for the race to actually begin, but i'd rather that than watching only 3 cars make it through the first corner because everyone else has aquaplaned off.

[V12]

To be honest, even in my relatively short lifetime I've seen races run in worse conditions, without catastrophic incident, without safety car intervention being needed.

I think using the SC to start the race yesterday was massive overkill. I might not know what it's like to drive an F1 car in those conditions but Fernando Alonso and Martin Brundle do. At most a rolling start with the safety car, but that's all was needed, at very most.

[Sonic]

The safety car was not needed full stop. Yes it was raining but if the pit walkabout could happen with martin in a light coat then its time to go racin.

If its very wet then a SC start is fine but as the whole point is to make it safer the SC should be out for 1 lap max so that tyre temps etc don't drop too low. We saw so many cars off the road in the early laps due to brakes at just 120 degrees EEK!

Racing drivers are paid to take the risks, if they don't want to do it give the car to me! ;-)

[jens]

Indeed only 2 laps max should be spent behind safety car in the beginning. If the conditions aren't good enough for racing (which I think they actually were already from the beginning in China), then delay the race, but I don't want to see most of the race driven behind SC, which is totally unfair and isn't a "race" at all. It's just done not to "fall behind timetable". Better wait a bit and get a proper race.

[Mark]

Makes me wonder why they bother with the extreme wet tyres when as soon as there is a spot of rain they throw the safety car!

[Ranger]

Makes me wonder why they bother with the extreme wet tyres when as soon as there is a spot of rain they throw the safety car!

Well they ran the whole race on them!

They used to have an even more treaded tyre which quickly became redundant for that very reason you just pointed out.

[ShiftingGears]

The weather was fine, and running around at low speed did nothing to make the track conditions better. Only one lap of the safety car was needed, I think.

[big_sw2000]

Look how many people went off on the last corner, behind the safty car.

Imagine what would happen 1st lap if there had been no saftycar.

[nigelred5]

I think the idea was an attempt to dry the racing line of the standing water a little bit by running the cars for a few laps, however they simply aren't going fast enough under safety car to really accomplish that.

[Sonic]

Look how many people went off on the last corner, behind the safty car.

Imagine what would happen 1st lap if there had been no saftycar.

They were falling off because of low tyre and brake temps and reduced ride height all as a direct result of the safety car.

Slight side note. I remember the 94 suzuka monsoon being red flagged - nigel mansell fresh from his indy racing argued hard for a safety car restart but was it ever used before the?

They should call it "Formula " and be done with it. Safety car starts? The world's going soft. People have paid big money for a grandstand seat to see racing drivers do what they are meant to do, not watch a mid-range Mercedes nanny them.

[Sonic]

They should call it "Formula " and be done with it. Safety car starts? The world's going soft. People have paid big money for a grandstand seat to see racing drivers do what they are meant to do, not watch a mid-range Mercedes nanny them.

HELL YEAH

[big_sw2000]

They were falling off because of low tyre and brake temps and reduced ride height all as a direct result of the safety car.

Slight side note. I remember the 94 suzuka monsoon being red flagged - nigel mansell fresh from his indy racing argued hard for a safety car restart but was it ever used before the?
They were also falling off mid race, with full brake temp, and normal tyre preassure.
Maybe it was the river across the track, or lake as Button discribed it, that caused them to aquplane.
Would off been intresting to see how many cars ended up in there 1st lap.

[PSfan]

Has F1 racing really changed so much since I've taken interest an interest to it?

15 years ago the race would have had a normal standing start, and in my opinion more dangerous conditions: traction control so the cars get up to speed faster, and allot more drivers "jumping" the start. watching some old 1995 speedtv decade races, I swear it seemed that at least 3 or 4 drivers at each race had to serve a 10s penalty for jumping the start, amazing that it pretty much never happens these days...

[Somebody]

What would you like, a pile up in the 1st corner. In the dramer, one car goes over another, and another car ends up upside down. (Both very dangerous crashes for the drivers). Or maybe we could have a Spa syle crash, where 3/4 of the field is wiped out.

Motor racing is dangerous, we all except that, but if it can be made less dangerous, maybe by following the safty car for a few laps. Espically as none of them drivers had driven the track in the rain. Then all the good. I will admit its a bit boring to watch, but its safty first.

Uh, I said that if it's not expected to be safe to start the race proper, THEN DON'T START THE RACE. Delay it until it is safe, rather than starting AND running behind the SC for an extended time. [I allowed for a rolling start after a SC formation lap, rather than a standing start. And, moreover, that they should red-flag and void the original start if it quickly becomes clear that starting was a mistake]

You didn't read my post at all did you?


If it's safe to start the race, then start the race. If not, then don't start the race.

Conditions didn't change much between starting the race under safety car and the race propper did they?

I agree that if they are going to start, then 2 sighting laps maximum and off they go.
I agree.

[ozrevhead]

Has F1 racing really changed so much since I've taken interest an interest to it?

15 years ago the race would have had a normal standing start, and in my opinion more dangerous conditions: traction control so the cars get up to speed faster, and allot more drivers "jumping" the start. watching some old 1995 speedtv decade races, I swear it seemed that at least 3 or 4 drivers at each race had to serve a 10s penalty for jumping the start, amazing that it pretty much never happens these days...
thankfully the majority have gotten over the 'it has to be dangerous to be entertaining'

sure there is a element of risk but to have unnessary risk and make it twice as dangerous just for someone's 'entertainment value' or so that F1 isnt soft is just recklesness and stupidity

we havent had a F1 death since Senna and quite frankly I want it to stay that way

[ozrevhead]

They should call it "Formula " and be done with it. Safety car starts? The world's going soft. People have paid big money for a grandstand seat to see racing drivers do what they are meant to do, not watch a mid-range Mercedes nanny them.
so we want to undully danger drivers lives to prove they are not soft - get real!!!!!!!!

If its not safe to start the race DONT

[leopard]

thankfully the majority have gotten over the 'it has to be dangerous to be entertaining'

sure there is a element of risk but to have unnessary risk and make it twice as dangerous just for someone's 'entertainment value' or so that F1 isnt soft is just recklesness and stupidity

we havent had a F1 death since Senna and quite frankly I want it to stay that way

How can you consider being dangerous at risk of someone life is entertainment value, I know it had outstanding box-office returns, how many titles sequel of 'psycho' you have watched?

[ozrevhead]

How can you consider being dangerous at risk of someone life is entertainment value, I know it had outstanding box-office returns, how many titles sequel of 'psycho' you have watched?
thats what I said - how bout you read the post before you get stuck in :rolleyes:

[leopard]

thats what I said - how bout you read the post before you get stuck in :rolleyes:

it was not trying to stick out for anything..., seems I just misinterpret negative form of present perfect as probability of expectation. I haven't met her (yet), may indicate that I hope to meet her...
However I could be wrong though...

Agree that we can have entertaining point of a race other than putting the race in dangerous state or any maneuver get to the point of our concern upon.

[big_sw2000]

Uh, I said that if it's not expected to be safe to start the race proper, THEN DON'T START THE RACE. Delay it until it is safe, rather than starting AND running behind the SC for an extended time. [I allowed for a rolling start after a SC formation lap, rather than a standing start. And, moreover, that they should red-flag and void the original start if it quickly becomes clear that starting was a mistake]

You didn't read my post at all did you?


I agree.
Red flag the race and void the original start if it quickly becomes clear that starting was a mistake. You mean after a big accident then.

You buy tickets for the race, and it gets delayed, then cancelled because of rain. Or would you rather watch 6 to 10 laps behind a SC, then the race.
Delaying a race these days is not an option, with the tight TV times etc. Altough i must point out, thats crap, and i do think a delay to drier conditions would be good. But that would be pointless in China, because it stayed wet.
And useless in Maylasia, because it got dark.
I just dont see any other option.

[Sonic]

I don't think any of us who have commented that the drivers were "soft" desire danger/death for entertainment. Simply that the safety car is used proportionally to the danger level. We have tipped too far one way now using the SC in conditions that 5 years ago would have run at full speed.