RB5 and Sebastian Vettel

[ioan]

That was a real tour de force who brings back memories of another young German driver in the wet! :D

Go Vettel! :)

[yodasarmpit]

And all done without double deck diffusers.

Vettel was just perfect in the wet, not a single mistake.

[ArrowsFA1]

Reminded me of Hamilton's drive in the wet at Silverstone. Vettel was in control, self-assured and supremely confident all day, and that after just three laps in qualifying!

The boy's a star and a real threat this year :s mokin:

[ioan]

Reminded me of Hamilton's drive in the wet at Silverstone.

And Hamilton reminded me of Massa in the wet at Silverstone! :p :

[Dave B]

Arrows makes a good point about qually: had it been a dry race Vettel would have been sitting pretty on a huge stack of unused tyres. He had it all covered this weekend.

This was no fluke result for him or Red Bull. :up:

[ArrowsFA1]

And Hamilton reminded me of Massa in the wet at Silverstone! :p :
I raise Hamilton's winning drive because we are witnessing a great new generation of drivers in F1 at the moment. It's an exciting time for F1 in that respect and after Hamilton bursting on the scene it's fantastic to see new winners...teams and drivers :s mokin:

[gloomyDAY]

I've had this sig since December. I have a lot faith in this team, chassis and drivers. The sky is the limit and Newey's installation of the DDD is going to pose a big challenge to the other competitors. I really think that the RB5's prowess is just beginning to be unfurled.

[ioan]

Arrows makes a good point about qually: had it been a dry race Vettel would have been sitting pretty on a huge stack of unused tyres. He had it all covered this weekend.

This was no fluke result for him or Red Bull. :up:

No doubt RBR got all the corners covered for this week end and I have a doubt there is much more to come from them.

If it wasn't for a stupid mistake in Oz Vettel would have 16 points and be only 5 points shy of Button.

I'm a bit relieved now that it looks like the championship isn't a forgone conclusion, however I have a feeling that Brawn & Co have very different feeling from mine! ;)

[ioan]

I raise Hamilton's winning drive because we are witnessing a great new generation of drivers in F1 at the moment. It's an exciting time for F1 in that respect and after Hamilton bursting on the scene it's fantastic to see new winners...teams and drivers :s mokin:

I know, don't take it hard, it was just for a laugh.

[ArrowsFA1]

:cool:

[Ranger]

Red Bull have only lost points through mistakes or misfortune this year, so that gap to BrawnGP is smaller than the points would suggest.

It will be good to see Seb and Mark go after them, especially with the diffuser solution on the way. :up:

[wedge]

And Hamilton reminded me of Massa in the wet at Silverstone! :p :

Hamilton gave it 101% today, whereas Massa drove at 90% and still got it wrong.

[ioan]

Hamilton gave it 101% today, whereas Massa drove at 90% and still got it wrong.

What a load of bull crap. Next time wake up before posting.

Hamilton overdrove it today like Massa did last year.

Hamilton gave it 101% today, whereas Massa drove at 90% and still got it wrong.

And you have the telemetry to prove that?

Anybody who says "101%" is talking bollocks to start with.

[ioan]

And you have the telemetry to prove that?

Anybody who says "101%" is talking bollocks to start with.

Don't stress it, our fellow forumer wedge has clearly lost his chips.

Let's rather go back to the topic of the thread, and enjoy a great achievement by a non DDD team, which is impressive to say the least.

[christophulus]

Red Bull are most definitely on the up. Comments were made during the race that it's going to be a tough job to hold on to Vettel - although can anyone really see him jumping across to Ferrari on current form?

[UltimateDanGTR]

brilliant race in brilliantly wet conditions won by a brilliant driver in a brilliant car.

BRILLIANT!

[wedge]

Hamilton overdrove it today like Massa did last year.

That's what I meant. He was trying too hard today whereas Massa last year looked like he was having a stroll and still fell over.

[skm]

As an Aussie great to see Red Bull doing so well. Would have loved to see Webber win [I was willing Vettel to have an off in the last 10 laps!] but Vettel drove a super race. All credit to him.

Hopefully Mark will get his chance later in the year.

[UltimateDanGTR]

i wanted webber to win aswell. the unlucky aussie deserves it. but vettel was faultless so should be congratulated

[ozrevhead]

RB 1-2 who would of thunked it :D

Kudos to Buemi in their sister TR Car too :)

OH HAPPY DAY! :D

[ioan]

That's what I meant. He was trying too hard today whereas Massa last year looked like he was having a stroll and still fell over.

No you didn't, because you were taking a stab at Massa without knowing how hard he was trying last year in Silverstone.
You talk rubbish and than try to turn it around, you're a joke.

Back to Red Bull and Vettel now.

[ioan]

As an Aussie great to see Red Bull doing so well. Would have loved to see Webber win [I was willing Vettel to have an off in the last 10 laps!] ...

You should be ashamed.

[wedge]

No you didn't, because you were taking a stab at Massa without knowing how hard he was trying last year in Silverstone.
You talk rubbish and than try to turn it around, you're a joke.


How many times did Massa spin that day compared to everyone else? Too many times too many! FACT!

[gloomyDAY]

As an Aussie great to see Red Bull doing so well. Would have loved to see Webber win [I was willing Vettel to have an off in the last 10 laps!] but Vettel drove a super race. :rolleyes:

[wedge]

I don't hate Massa. Massa was unlucky today. Unfortunately gearbox gremlins robbed him of great drive.

[ioan]

How many times did Massa spin that day compared to everyone else? Too many times too many! FACT!

3 or 4 times.
How many times did Hamilton today? 4 or more! So what is your point?
You're trying to prove what exactly?! The situations were similar with the difference that in Silverstone last year Massa was on the wrong tires at some point. That wasn't the case today with Lewy.

I say both are good drivers that had a bad day, you just try to bash Massa.

Let's stop hijacking this thread with useless bashing tries.

[ioan]

I don't hate Massa. Massa was unlucky today. Unfortunately gearbox gremlins robbed him of great drive.

OK, next time think it through before saying things that you can't prove (like the 90%).
Now let's put this aside, and talk about the Vettel beating Button by a hefty 40 seconds.

[christophulus]

Vettel took blame for an incident during the second safety car period when Sebastien Buemi collided with him behind the safety car, he had backed off because he thought Trulli’s slow moving car in front was Barrichello and didn’t realise that Buemi was behind him

Vettel even puts his hands up and accepts when he's at fault - and often when he isn't. Surely the onus should be on Buemi to watch out?

That's one of Vettel's most impressive traits in my opinion, even though many others wouldn't agree (I'm looking at you Eddie Jordan :-P)

http://allenonf1.wordpress.com/2009/04/19/vettel-flawless-as-red-bull-get-1-2/

[pino]

What a load of bull crap. Next time wake up before posting.

Hamilton overdrove it today like Massa did last year.




And you have the telemetry to prove that?

Anybody who says "101%" is talking bollocks to start with.

Guys calm down, and watch the language !

[F1boat]

I wonder why so much anger. I want Jenson to win and I am panicked now, as Vettel is a better driver and the car was better today, but still the race was fantastic and I enjoyed it. F1 should be a great celebration, not a cause for vicious fights...

[jens]

Vettel - superb! :up: :up: Two wins, both from pole, both in the wet. :) Besides that a nice guy and a great gentleman too.

To be honest, it's still really hard to believe that Red Bull has dominated a Grand Prix and achieved a 1-2. Well, this year is just so unbelievable. :p : Is it really Formula One?

Vettel might be a championship contender already in 2009, but before judging that, it remains to be seen, how does RB5 fare against BGP001 in dry.

[F1boat]

Vettel is special. I think that all F1 drivers are good and most of them are very good. Some, however, are very, very special and I think that Vettel is one of them.

[Valve Bounce]

I raise Hamilton's winning drive because we are witnessing a great new generation of drivers in F1 at the moment. It's an exciting time for F1 in that respect and after Hamilton bursting on the scene it's fantastic to see new winners...teams and drivers :s mokin:

You do realise that bunsen's won two out of three races this year, and he hardly qualifies as new.

I don't believe that I am actually supporting bunsen. :(

But I am :) I have found redemption.

[jens]

Vettel is special. I think that all F1 drivers are good and most of them are very good. Some, however, are very, very special and I think that Vettel is one of them.

Yep, for me there are three drivers in current F1, who are in that highest group (FA/LH/SV). Last year Kubica got a lot of attention too, but I'm not convinced yet.

[Valve Bounce]

Vettel is special. I think that all F1 drivers are good and most of them are very good. Some, however, are very, very special and I think that Vettel is one of them.

When he was doing so well in the Torro Rosso, I couldn't believe it. Yeah! I rated him then and this drive just proves it. :up:

[Sonic]

Now. Anyone wondering if we could see a red bull podium lockout later in the season? Perhaps toro could get up to the top step again one a track that favours ferrari power.

[markabilly]

I was not all that impressed with Vettel until Monza, and then to run the race he did!!!
and then Brazil came and he had the nerve to run down and pass Hamilton, taking the WDC away from Hamilton, and would have except for the sudden slowness of a certain car.....

When it got wet, I expected him to win unless something beyond his control took it away....expecting someone to have the skill to win in the rain, where it is very treachous.....says it all

[woody2goody]

I don't hate Massa. Massa was unlucky today. Unfortunately gearbox gremlins robbed him of great drive.

Massa was great today, just plain unlucky.

As for Vettel, he was great too! :) Although I do think in the dry, that Barrichello and maybe Jenson would have given him some trouble.

Really happy for Mark Webber as well, great second place, which was virtually flawless. I know it's a thread about Vettel, but I had to mention, a good drive from Kovy today :)

[veeten]

Another win for Vettel, and that's good.

But... it's in the wet and, while that's admirable, I'm still not convinced.
Look at his overall record, and you'll see why: Two wins in the wet, not even a podium when it's dry or medium.

I'm sorry, but I would rather have a driver that is capable of winning in ALL types of conditions, not just those that suit you. In the crush to compare him to Schumacher, Michael was able to win in any race, wet or dry. So far, Vettel has been a 'one trick pony', only able when the track is sufficiently wet for him to maintain focus on the drive. In this game you have to be better than that, so until he does I'll just 'curb my enthusiasm'.

[markabilly]

Another win for Vettel, and that's good.

But... it's in the wet and, while that's admirable, I'm still not convinced.
Look at his overall record, and you'll see why: Two wins in the wet, not even a podium when it's dry or medium.

I'm sorry, but I would rather have a driver that is capable of winning in ALL types of conditions, not just those that suit you. In the crush to compare him to Schumacher, Michael was able to win in any race, wet or dry. So far, Vettel has been a 'one trick pony', only able when the track is sufficiently wet for him to maintain focus on the drive. In this game you have to be better than that, so until he does I'll just 'curb my enthusiasm'.
You have a point, except when the conditions are wet, the test is more driver than car---so as to the combo of dry, SV and Red Bull, they may not be enarly so competitive....but when and driving like that in the rain demonstrates a certain fell for the car....

Remember Senna as a rookie did not do much until 1984 Monaco GP when he was rapidly catching Prost in the rain (a race stopped by IKx who was a porche empoyee and lead to his suspension--otherwise he might well have won from 13th place)

[woody2goody]

Yep, for me there are three drivers in current F1, who are in that highest group (FA/LH/SV). Last year Kubica got a lot of attention too, but I'm not convinced yet.

I do like Kubica, but his struggles this year seem to make last year's criticisms of Heidfeld slightly void already...

Nick had the better of him all weekend, and if he wasn't bundled into a spin by Glock, he could have finished 5th or 6th. That collision cost the German 12-15 seconds, and put him behind the Kovy-Lewis-Buemi-Kubica-Kimi-Glock gaggle.

[Robinho]

great drive from Vettel, the Red Bull has looked very quick in Oz and Malaysia and they look to have stepped forward a bit this weekend. Coupled with that it clearly goes very well in the wet, as does young Vettel.

the red bull is light years ahead of the other non-DD teams, if they manage to package one for that car they'll be mighty quick - they were within a couple of thenths of the Brawns fuel corrected so i don't think thyey'll be far off in race pace in the dry soon.

notice a lot of negative posts for Button, seemed to me he did very well in the conditions, very few mistakes, quick enough fro 3rd, i think if they understoood the car a little better he would have challenged Webber at least, but today Vettel was the class act of the field - he would have won in the Torro Rosso too

[Garry Walker]

Another win for Vettel, and that's good.

But... it's in the wet and, while that's admirable, I'm still not convinced.
Look at his overall record, and you'll see why: Two wins in the wet, not even a podium when it's dry or medium.

I'm sorry, but I would rather have a driver that is capable of winning in ALL types of conditions, not just those that suit you. In the crush to compare him to Schumacher, Michael was able to win in any race, wet or dry. So far, Vettel has been a 'one trick pony', only able when the track is sufficiently wet for him to maintain focus on the drive. In this game you have to be better than that, so until he does I'll just 'curb my enthusiasm'.

Exactly. Everyone knows he is great in wet, but he has never shown anything in dry that is impressive.

[Tumbo]

Vettel has been in the game for less than 2 whole seasons and has already notched up 2 wins (albeit in the wet) one in a Torro Rosso which no one expected to podium let alone win. He's the youngest winner in the sport's history? He had brain fade in Aust but was on track for at least 3rd. Who is to say he isn't capable of better things

[jens]

I don't know, what has been wrong with Vettel's dry weather performances that these have been criticized. He has qualified into Top3 for three GP's in a row and in Australia - in dry you know! - was keeping Button in a superior BGP in sight for the whole race.

In the second half of 2008 Vettel was consistently in the points, both in dry and wet. The cars he has been driving so far, haven't simply been quick enough for podiums/wins in dry. However, STR/RBR cars have had tendency to be better in the wet, which has enabled him to shine more there + of course his undoubted wet weather skills have helped too.

[harvick#1]

Vettel has been in the game for less than 2 whole seasons and has already notched up 2 wins (albeit in the wet) one in a Torro Rosso which no one expected to podium let alone win. He's the youngest winner in the sport's history? He had brain fade in Aust but was on track for at least 3rd. Who is to say he isn't capable of better things

its not like the STR was a Mclaren or Ferrari either, and if not for the incident in Australia, he would've been 3rd and not had a 10 place grid penalty for Malaysia either.

people I think still forget how young he is and how he is not a top-tier team to get results like that is mighty impressive.

5th at Singapore
6th at Velencia, Spain

I'd say thats pretty good considering hes was in the smallest team in F1 in 2008 and with the old-spec chassis is mighty impressive

give him time, plus he scored points in his first ever start in 2007 at the USGP in a dry conditions

[veeten]

you forgot one, harvick#1...

Chinese Grand Prix Results - 7 October 2007 - 56 Laps
POS DRIVER NATIONALITY ENTRANT LAPS TIME/RETIRE
1. Kimi Raikkonen Finland Ferrari 56 1h37m58.395
2.Fernando Alonso Spain McLaren-Mercedes 56 9.806
3.Felipe Massa Brazil Ferrari 56 12.891
4.Sebastian Vettel Germany Toro Rosso-Ferrari 56 53.509
5.Jenson Button Britain Honda 56 1m08.666

and this was in dry conditions, and his first year. If, by now, you can't be consistent long enough to bring the car to the front when the the conditions are just as equal for all of the grid, then you need to work better with the team to do so. Others have, and I don't see why this is not possible, unless better performance is in the cards.

[Ranger]

you forgot one, harvick#1...

Chinese Grand Prix Results - 7 October 2007 - 56 Laps
POS DRIVER NATIONALITY ENTRANT LAPS TIME/RETIRE
1. Kimi Raikkonen Finland Ferrari 56 1h37m58.395
2.Fernando Alonso Spain McLaren-Mercedes 56 9.806
3.Felipe Massa Brazil Ferrari 56 12.891
4.Sebastian Vettel Germany Toro Rosso-Ferrari 56 53.509
5.Jenson Button Britain Honda 56 1m08.666

and this was in dry conditions, and his first year. If, by now, you can't be consistent long enough to bring the car to the front when the the conditions are just as equal for all of the grid, then you need to work better with the team to do so. Others have, and I don't see why this is not possible, unless better performance is in the cards.

That race wasn't dry at all!

Remember this was the guy that spun out at Malaysia in the wet after being outqualified on fuel and being slower in the race than Webber.

He is not but he isn't the best thing since Schumi.

[Rollo]

I'm sorry, but I would rather have a driver that is capable of winning in ALL types of conditions, not just those that suit you. In the crush to compare him to Schumacher, Michael was able to win in any race, wet or dry. So far, Vettel has been a 'one trick pony', only able when the track is sufficiently wet for him to maintain focus on the drive. In this game you have to be better than that, so until he does I'll just 'curb my enthusiasm'.

Was he able to win a GP in a Jordan? Because that's the sort of thing we're dealing with. It's talent that's won Vettel his two GPs now, not the ability of the car under him. Rain negates all of that.

I'd be willing to say that Vettel is only one of five drivers in the field who has the talent to win a World Championship. Those being: Massa, Hamilton, Raikkonen, Alonso and Vettel.

I expect that Vettel will be World Champion by 2016.

[woody2goody]

First of all, the rain at Sepang was horrendous, so no fault of Seb's there. Australia wasn't his fault either as 90% of people probably think, and today he was immense.

Vettel may win another race or two this year. I think the Brawn is too good for him to win too many, but I also think Williams, Webber and Trulli will end up with one or two each too.

I worry about RBR trying to put a diffuser on it. Surely that has the potential to knacker the excellent balance of that car.

[gloomyDAY]

Exactly. Everyone knows he is great in wet, but he has never shown anything in dry that is impressive.That's a ludicrous thing to say. Melbourne was a spectacular race until the fateful clash with Kubica. I'm convinced that a podium was in order for Vettel, but he just braked too late and hit Kubica, not to mention that Vettel's tires (made out of taffy) were delapidated. Malaysia was hopeless since Vettel received that stupid penalty.

Also, if China were dry he'd have a chance at the win. Light fuel load, running at the front, and aggressive race strategy would have meant that the Brawn's wouldn't have escaped Red Bull's fury.

Oh, I'm making excuses you say? How about a sig bet? :)

[RJL25]

You should be ashamed.

ioan calm down man, his tongue was planted firmly in his cheeck when he said that he was willing Vettel to have an off, he was just saying in a light hearted way that he wished it was Webber, bloody hell there are some sensitive souls around here, no wonder your banned.

Back to the topic at hand, Vettel is a super driver in the wet no doubt about it, but there is no doubt that the RB5 has a huge advantage in these conditions because it wasn't just Vettel who was really quick as whenever Mark wasn't tangling with Jenson he was every bit as fast as Vettel, but good on him all the same he won the race fair and square.

For me though, it is far more impressive to win in normal conditions when every other car is able to perform in the manner in which it was designed. If you can beat everyone else without the assistance of weather or safety cars, then that is when it becomes truly impressive.

In saying that, Vettel i'm sure will do that at some stage this year

[stevie_gerrard]

Congrats to Vettel, he drove magnificently and he knew the importance of the victory for Red Bull and the team and himself. He knows hes got the potential to really challenge for the title. Looking forward to watching him win many more races like that :)

[Garry Walker]

First of all, the rain at Sepang was horrendous, so no fault of Seb's there.
What bullcrap. You didnt see every other driver spinning, it was his fault he was going too fast for the conditions.



Australia wasn't his fault either as 90% of people probably think, and today he was immense. If 90% of people think that he was at fault, race stewards think he was at fault and most people who have any understanding of racing think he was at fault and you think he wasnt at fault, who do you think is the more credible of the options?






That's a ludicrous thing to say. Melbourne was a spectacular race until the fateful clash with Kubica. I'm convinced that a podium was in order for Vettel, but he just braked too late and hit Kubica, not to mention that Vettel's tires (made out of taffy) were delapidated.
Spectacular? How? He was just keeping pace with Button who had flatspotted his tyres and was struggling. In the end Vettel fcuked up under pressure and I cant deny I found it extremely funny.



Malaysia was hopeless since Vettel received that stupid penalty. A deserved penalty, but even then his pace compared to Webber was very slow, even pathetic.



Also, if China were dry he'd have a chance at the win. Light fuel load, running at the front, and aggressive race strategy would have meant that the Brawn's wouldn't have escaped Red Bull's fury. That is impossible to say.



Oh, I'm making excuses you say? How about a sig bet? :)
As I once told to Valve Bounce, I only do serious bets, so sig bets I find idiotic.
Because I dont want to take your money, so, if you want a bet, I am offering that if you lose, you will have to make a thread where you say "vettel is the most overrated driver of the current grid and openly declare you wish he retires from all future races. On the opposite end, if I lose (I wont) I will make a thread saying whatever you wish me to say :)

But now, what exactly do you want to bet on :D

[wedge]

Wet races won on merit tend to be won by the top drivers. Perhaps we will never know just how good last year's STR could be?

[leopard]

I didn't vote the wrong people for the best performer 2007 nominee on his debut season.

He wasn't supposed to ruin result of opening race this season. Vettel would have collected more points with a bit more patience wrapped around.

[Sonic]

I expect that Vettel will be World Champion by 2016.

That long? As long as he doesn't make a bad career move I see him as a multiple champion by 2016. If I were a betting man I'd say he's got a fair chance this year and if not this year a first title by 2012.

[wedge]

Mark Hughes has changed his opinion. The past 18 months he's been rather sceptical from what I read in Autosport.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8008022.stm

[Rollo]

That long? As long as he doesn't make a bad career move I see him as a multiple champion by 2016. If I were a betting man I'd say he's got a fair chance this year and if not this year a first title by 2012.

Given that we can't foresee the driver changes over the next few years, and that certain people would have to leave various teams before he was in a drive capable of pulling a title, then it could be that it might be a little time away.

2016 I put down based on someone like Mansell who could have won the title 6 years before he finally did, I was putting forward a conservative theory. Certainly the talent is there; that that exists with probably only about 5 drivers at any given moment.

[gloomyDAY]

But now, what exactly do you want to bet on :D Pint? :D

[gloomyDAY]

Let me just leave this in here.....

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45678000/jpg/_45678686_redbull1_2_416x300.jpg

You might change your mind.

[leopard]

RBR, RBR, Brawn, Brawn, McLaren, McLaren, Toyota, STR

Who breaks the pattern, Truli or Buemi?

[tintop]

Let me just leave this in here.....

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45678000/jpg/_45678686_redbull1_2_416x300.jpg

You might change your mind.

What a great image, what a fun year. It will be a season of 2 halves, I suspect.

[ozrevhead]

Let me just leave this in here.....

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45678000/jpg/_45678686_redbull1_2_416x300.jpg

You might change your mind.
great pic - now we need to swap the cars around in Bahrain :D

[leopard]

great pic - now we need to swap the cars around in Bahrain :D

swapping the cars between RBR and Brawn or between RBR and Renault? :)

[wedge]

Interesting insights from Windsor

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/windsor-webber-is-red-bulls-unsung-hero/

[gloomyDAY]

The tide will turn in favor of Vettel at Monaco.

RBR will take the WCC at the end of the season.

[F1boat]

The tide will turn in favor of Vettel at Monaco.

RBR will take the WCC at the end of the season.

You wish

[AndyL]

The tide will turn in favor of Vettel at Monaco.

Red Bull's strength seems to be in the high speed corners, I don't see the Monaco circuit favouring them. But this has been such an upside-down season, anything could happen. Maybe even a McLaren win :) Turkey or Silverstone should be good for Red Bull.

[EuroTroll]

It will be a season of 2 halves, I suspect.

Really? I was betting on it being a season of 3 halves. :p :

[F1boat]

Red Bull's strength seems to be in the high speed corners, I don't see the Monaco circuit favouring them. But this has been such an upside-down season, anything could happen. Maybe even a McLaren win :) Turkey or Silverstone should be good for Red Bull.

I think that McLaren and Renault could be a major force in Monaco, maybe fighting or even beating the RBR. Ferrari will struggle, methinks, as they were poor at that track even in the almighty 2002 and 2004. But Brawn GP might be unstoppable - I hope so! :)