Briatore on Brawn drivers & credibility *merged*

[ArrowsFA1]

"The drivers in our teams have been and are world champions, while the championship is now fought between a driver who was almost retired and another one who is a good guy but a paracarro (Italian saying for being as slow as a milepost at the side of a road)," Briatore told Gazzetta dello Sport.
"I don't know where credibility has ended up with all this. To make up the gap we have to those teams is impossible."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74513

Rather than taking a pop at the Brawn drivers, and questioning the credibility of a championship being led by those drivers, Briatore should get his team of world champions working harder to make up that gap.

The Brawn diffuser is legal. Get over it :rolleyes:

Arse :down:

[ioan]

I pretty much agree with him.

Given that he had Button in his team, he's much better positioned to judge him than any of us will ever be.

PS: I see you are starting to get to the lower level words in order to express an opinion, I wonder why?!

[F1boat]

I agree with Arrows. Flavio is a bitter, old man and I wouldn't call Nelson a "world champion" yet ;) IMO Renault also didn't have many fans prior 2005, but this didn't stop them from winning :)

[ioan]

IMO Renault also didn't have many fans prior 2005, but this didn't stop them from winning :)

That's if you think that all the French and Spanish people (who amount to around 100.000.000) doesn't exist.

[Tazio]

He's saying what others are thinking! Unlike fans Flavio has a vested interest.
He's blowing off steam. It doesn't change the reality of the situation.
If you get behind the wheel and win your a winner.
Winners don't let trash talk get to them!
I wouldn't!

[F1boat]

That's if you think that all the French and Spanish people (who amount to around 100.000.000) doesn't exist.

ioan, if you check the stats you will see that many Spanish fans grew interested AFTER 2005. Same will be with Brawn. There are many British fans, who will love the team this year. And non-British, like me :)

[christophulus]

He's saying what others are thinking! Unlike fans Flavio has a vested interest.
He's blowing off steam. It doesn't change the reality of the situation.
If you get behind the wheel and win your a winner.
Winners don't let trash talk get to them!
I wouldn't!

True. Although it's not overly professional to say things like this, but I doubt anyone expected him to be any different.

[F1boat]

Flavio Briatore is like Cristiano Ronaldo ;) Ronaldo sometimes says funny things :)

[I am evil Homer]

Funny how he didn't have a problem with credibility over mass dampers or Michelin rubber! He's blowing off steam but...if Rubens is a sign post, Nelsinho must be the road-side cafe going nowhere fast.

[Tazio]

Funny how he didn't have a problem with credibility over mass dampers or Michelin rubber! He's blowing off steam but...if Rubens is a sign post, Nelsinho must be the road-side cafe going nowhere fast.More like Road Kill :p :

[ArrowsFA1]

I wonder why?!
Simple. The 2009 regs have seen a shake up in the established order. The teams that have dominated F1 so far this century are struggling, whereas the likes of Brawn, Williams, Toyota and Red Bull have done a great job and are deservedly setting the pace.

It makes for a refreshing change but what does Briatore do? He questions the credibility of a championship which doesn't have Renault, Ferrari or McLaren at the front, and feels the need to be dismissive of the Brawn drivers :rolleyes:

[christophulus]

http://www.f1way.com/news/2009/April/17/barrichello-scolds-briatore-for-comments


Rubens Barrichello on Friday slammed Flavio Briatore as a "bad loser".

Some English translations of Briatore's comments to Italian reporters in Shanghai quote the Renault boss as dismissing Barrichello as a "pensioner".

His Brawn teammate and back-to-back grand prix winner Jenson Button, meanwhile, was written off as a 'paracarro', which translates to English as a sort of Italian concrete roadside bollard.

But veteran Barrichello, 36, said Briatore should concentrate on closing the gap rather than lashing out at F1's new pacesetters.

"There are some people who lower their heads and work. Others don't know how to lose and in my opinion Briatore is one of those kind (of people)," Barrichello is quoted as telling Brazilian reporters in China.

[F1boat]

Rubens is quite right. Where were the Renaults today, 16th and 19th?

[Tazio]

He questions the credibility of a championship which doesn't have Renault, Ferrari or McLaren at the front,:He did not say that those are your words


and feels the need to be dismissive of the Brawn drivers :rolleyes:
He's telling an Italian publication what they want to here. I wouldn't expect him to question Buttons, and Rubens ability in a curtious way! It's never been his style
Now quit whinning :down:

[Ranger]

Flav has always been good for a soundbite, no matter how right or wrong he is.

[ioan]

ioan, if you check the stats you will see that many Spanish fans grew interested AFTER 2005. Same will be with Brawn. There are many British fans, who will love the team this year. And non-British, like me :)

Still there are 60.000.000 french people who will support Renault no matter if they win or lose, trust me on this one. French people love motorsport and they also love everything that is French made.

[ioan]

Rubens is quite right. Where were the Renaults today, 16th and 19th?

Just wait and see.

[ioan]

Simple. The 2009 regs have seen a shake up in the established order. The teams that have dominated F1 so far this century are struggling, whereas the likes of Brawn, Williams, Toyota and Red Bull have done a great job and are deservedly setting the pace.

It makes for a refreshing change but what does Briatore do? He questions the credibility of a championship which doesn't have Renault, Ferrari or McLaren at the front, and feels the need to be dismissive of the Brawn drivers :rolleyes:

Does this make you go that low and call him an arse?!
He knows Button better than any of us, and he did sent Button packing because he just wasn't good enough.

[F1boat]

He did not say that those are your words

I wouldn't expect him to question Buttons, and Rubens ability in a curtious way!

Yes, this is right, I might admit. Sometimes he speaks no less gentle about his own drivers. This doesn't make it less disgusting, however.

[janneppi]

Flav has always been good for a soundbite, no matter how right or wrong he is.
Which is why he does it, to get some face time with the media.

[ArrowsFA1]

He did not say that those are your words
Quite true, they are my words (I also provided the direct quote) but I think they're a reasonable summary of what he said. Why? Because:

"our teams have been and are world champions" - who else is he referring to but Renault, Ferrari and McLaren?

"the championship is now fought between..." - he's making a comparison between this season, and previous years when "our teams" were winning

"I don't know where credibility has ended up with all this" - what credibility is he questioning other than a 2009 championship headed by Brawn drivers?


He's telling an Italian publication what they want to here.
So? To me it still comes across as sour grapes. His team did not come up with the diffuser solution. They're languishing back in the pack, and the chances are Alonso will be gone if this level of performance continues.

The only person whining is Briatore.

[Valve Bounce]

Flavio Briatore is like Cristiano Ronaldo ;) Ronaldo sometimes says funny things :)

That is the cruelest thing anyone has ever said about Ronaldo. God, being lumped together with Sleazy Flav. :eek:

[Valve Bounce]

Rubens is quite right. Where were the Renaults today, 16th and 19th?

Flav's bricks can't even keep up with the non bodgy diffuser brigade - how sad is that.

[ArrowsFA1]

He knows Button better than any of us, and he did sent Button packing because he just wasn't good enough.
Maybe, maybe not, but 1) that was at the end of 2002 - a long time ago, 2) Button has since proved he is more than good enough, 3) Briatore had Alonso waiting in the wings, 4) this all misses the point.

The point, very simply, is that IMHO there is no issue of credibility over this year's championship. Brawn and their drivers deserve to be where they are today. They've come through a tough winter, produced a fantastic (legal) car, and are producing the results.

Still, it's just another Briatore soundbite :D

[Dzeidzei]

Flavio always makes a lot of noise, but he´s right in a way. Its good that Brawn hasnt got a top tier pairing. If that was the case, I wouldnt watch a single race, since the titles would be decided already. No Im not sure yet.

Just wondering if 2009 will be remembered as a year when titles were decided on technical details? Jenson -should he win- would always be called the diffusor champion.

Right? At least the last 2 wdc´s were decided on track.

[F1boat]

That is the cruelest thing anyone has ever said about Ronaldo. God, being lumped together with Sleazy Flav. :eek:

So sorry, Valve. I didn't want in insult Ronaldo... :( ;)

[PolePosition_1]

He's a character - I'll give him that. And with that in mind, its good for F1 to have characters who speak their mind.

I find it funny how people complain that F1 is full of PR speak and people aren't allowed to show any character, and when we have a few who do speak their mind, they get criticised if their opinion isn't the same as whose doing the criticism.

Talking of team principles, Whitmarsh has impressed me a lot in his Q&A sessions, he comes across very honest, heartfelt and like a genuinely nice guy.

Latest being found http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74505

With him and SD at the head of the leading teams, both seem to be totally opposite to Todt and Dennis, in that they're much more likable characters.

[pino]

Mario and Stefano thinks the same way as Flavio, only they don't have the balls to say it in public ;)

[ioan]

Mario and Stefano thinks the same way as Flavio, only they don't have the balls to say it in public ;)

Exactly.

[Valve Bounce]

Mario and Stefano thinks the same way as Flavio, only they don't have the balls to say it in public ;)

Flavio has balls - since when?? :confused:

[Charlie]

Does this make you go that low and call him an arse?!
He knows Button better than any of us, and he did sent Button packing because he just wasn't good enough.

Button still outscored Trulli in 2002.

[I am evil Homer]

Jenson talking to Autosport:

"Unless he is at the front of F1, I am sure [he thinks] any team [being there] hurts the credibility of F1," Button told reporters in Shanghai. "He also needs to remember that he tried to employ me for this year, so..."

[aryan]

Does this make you go that low and call him an arse?!
He knows Button better than any of us, and he did sent Button packing because he just wasn't good enough.

Maybe he was wrong?

There have been plenty of people who have wanted Button's services over the years, including Sir Frank.

I know which one I trust more.

[ioan]

Maybe he was wrong?

There have been plenty of people who have wanted Button's services over the years, including Sir Frank.

I know which one I trust more.

For now the Button was wanted only by 2 teams, is that plenty of them?
He also was sent home by one team.
It doesn't look like he is some kind of hot property for anyone.

And when Flavio says that Button can't compare with the champions that drive for Renault, McLaren and Ferrari I can only agree with him, Jenson is no match for Alonso, Hamilton, Raikkonen and I would add Massa, Vettel, Webber,Trulli and Glock to the list without any hesitation.

[555-04Q2]

Sounds like Flavour needs to trade in his current supermodel for a new one, cause he obviously isint getting any legover at the moment.

[ArrowsFA1]

Button:
"We have produced a very competitive car because of the work force we have back at Brackely and you cannot take it away from them - it is very unfair to say that. They have worked very, very hard in very difficult circumstances and it is very, very unfair for Flavio to comment as he has just because he is a little bit bitter – he should also not forget he tried to employ me for this season."
:up:

Barrichello:
"I think that is stupid. Really. What a comment. If we all think that we need Ferrari and McLaren to win, why are the others here?
:up:


He's a character - I'll give him that. And with that in mind, its good for F1 to have characters who speak their mind.

I find it funny how people complain that F1 is full of PR speak and people aren't allowed to show any character, and when we have a few who do speak their mind, they get criticised if their opinion isn't the same as whose doing the criticism.
Fair point :up:

[ioan]

What? Button was to be Alonso's next lap dog?! :rotflmao:
if I were Jenson I would have never said it publicly.

[Dave B]

You've got to love Flavio's ability to deflect from his own team's shortcomings. Maybe he should look nearer to home for the reasons they're struggling rather than blaming those who are successful.

[F1boat]

Jenson owned him in his comments, as well as Rubens and still they manage to be polite. The difference - style ;)

It makes for a refreshing change but what does Briatore do? He questions the credibility of a championship which doesn't have Renault, Ferrari or McLaren at the front, and feels the need to be dismissive of the Brawn drivers :rolleyes:

"Just when there's talk of setting a budget cap to 30 million, we've spent 15m for KERS and 10m more for the diffusers. We're left with five to travel and to pay the employees."

Doesn't sound like an "Arse" to me.

The only person whining is Briatore.

Not quite true.....so are you.

[F1boat]

I don't want to sound rude, but nobody forces Flav to develop KERS or the diffusers. Its his choice. To be on top is expensive. Check how many people worked at Brawn GP.

[Dave B]

It's notable that when Renault spent money developing J-dampers they had no moral problem about the advantage it gave them. Now the boot's on the other foot, so to speak, and lo and behold we have a typical Flavio reaction.

FLAMBOYANT TEAM PRINCIPAL IN OUTSPOKEN TIRADE SHOCK

Who would have thought it?

What next?

"RON DENNIS MANGLES THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE REVELATION"?

"JEAN TODT IN SINGLE-MINDED QUEST TO WIN"?

[ioan]

"Just when there's talk of setting a budget cap to 30 million, we've spent 15m for KERS and 10m more for the diffusers. We're left with five to travel and to pay the employees."

Doesn't sound like an "Arse" to me.

That's because you take time to read and think about what he said, before furiously grabbing the keyboard and start calling him names. ;)

[F1boat]

It's notable that when Renault spent money developing J-dampers they had no moral problem about the advantage it gave them. Now the boot's on the other foot, so to speak, and lo and behold we have a typical Flavio reaction.

On the other hand, it is fun to see him so angry :lol:

[ioan]

I don't want to sound rude, but nobody forces Flav to develop KERS or the diffusers. Its his choice. To be on top is expensive. Check how many people worked at Brawn GP.

Let's see with what money will Brawn GP continue developing their cars. I bet Renault can outspend them easily, now and forever.

PS: Why don't you try to reason a bit taking into account the present world's realities?

[ioan]

It's notable that when Renault spent money developing J-dampers they had no moral problem about the advantage it gave them. Now the boot's on the other foot, so to speak, and lo and behold we have a typical Flavio reaction.

It's also notable that there was no world wise economic recession back in 2005 and 2006, not to mention a 30 million spending cap looming at the horizon.

If we start talking about facts than let's consider everything not only one side.

[ArrowsFA1]

"Just when there's talk of setting a budget cap to 30 million, we've spent 15m for KERS and 10m more for the diffusers. We're left with five to travel and to pay the employees."

Doesn't sound like an "Arse" to me.
Nor me. The absurdity of the FIA imposing a costly KERS system on the teams is certainly a good discussion topic, as is the whole budget capping issue but IIRC there are threads about these already.

[ioan]

Nor me. The absurdity of the FIA imposing a costly KERS system on the teams is certainly a good discussion topic, as is the whole budget capping issue but IIRC there are threads about these already.

But that is what Flavio is talking about in the link posted by you in the opening post of the thread. Shouldn't you call this thread the "Flavio bashing thread!" and this way we would know that there is no use trying to discuss what he said?

Nor me. The absurdity of the FIA imposing a costly KERS system on the teams is certainly a good discussion topic, as is the whole budget capping issue but IIRC there are threads about these already.

But this is a thread about what Briatore has said, is it not?

F1 needs characters. If it was all Press Release correctness then there would be no passion, no interest and nothing to talk about except lap-times. Flavio knows that better than anybody with the possible exception of Bernard Ecclestone Esquire.

Without the likes of Briatore and, yes, Ron Dennis, F1 would be Formula ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

Ferrari didn't become the biggest name in motorsport because Enzo was a lovely cuddly man who didn't ever speak his mind.

Button's reposte is all that really needs to be said about his comments about drivers.....although I don't think Ruben's should be able to get away with calling somebody a 'bad loser' without pointing out that Ruben's has been a fecking brilliant loser in the past. He made a career out of it for 5 years!!!!

[ArrowsFA1]

But this is a thread about what Briatore has said, is it not?
The thread title and Briatore's comments quoted in the first post make it clear what this thread was about.

The thread title and Briatore's comments quoted in the first post make it clear what this thread was about.

Oh, my apologies. So we aren't allowed to point out that he isn't just the arse you claim?

Very good....non-debatable debate....just what a motorsport forum is for.

Perhaps you should try http://www.dontdebatewithmeaboutflavioiamright.com ?

[Robinho]

according to Autosport and Button, Flav does know him very well - seeing as he tried to hire him for this year?!

now he's beating him he's a concrete bollard

[555-04Q2]

"Just when there's talk of setting a budget cap to 30 million, we've spent 15m for KERS and 10m more for the diffusers. We're left with five to travel and to pay the employees."

Doesn't sound like an "Arse" to me.

To be fair, KERS is optional, not mandatory, and they will also upgrade their diffusers at their own discretion. They have themselves to blame if they are only left with 5m.

[SGWilko]

Given that he had Button in his team, he's much better positioned to judge him than any of us will ever be.

Smack on the money ioan - who did Chav try to hire for this season.....?

Ummmmmm,

aahhhhhhhh,

Button? :laugh:

[SGWilko]

Let's see with what money will Brawn GP continue developing their cars. I bet Renault can outspend them easily, now and forever.

PS: Why don't you try to reason a bit taking into account the present world's realities?

Turn it in! I could ouspend Renault..

It's having the clever people that Renault seem to be lacking.....

[CNR]

when did lewis join them


The drivers in our teams have been and are world champions

[ioan]

Smack on the money ioan - who did Chav try to hire for this season.....?


Do you find that it's a compliment to Jenson to be Alonso's new lap dog?
A replacement for Piquet Jr.?

Any driver hired by Flavio to second Fernando should not feel honored by this, IMO.

[ioan]

when did lewis join them

He said teams, not team. ;)

[Big Ben]

Smack on the money ioan - who did Chav try to hire for this season.....?

Ummmmmm,

aahhhhhhhh,

Button? :laugh:


yeah... they need someone good enough to grab some points behind Alonso but not fast enough to make (uselessly) things difficult for the spaniard.

[veeten]

Turn it in! I could ouspend Renault..

It's having the clever people that Renault seem to be lacking.....

... and there it is.

It's not a question of cash reserves, it is in the spending on the 'what' and 'where' that determines where the team has the results.
You can have money out the wazoo, and still not make much headway; case in point, Toyota. It wasn't until this season, with all the cutbacks to their program, that they are seeing consistent podium finishes and points leading to the sharp end of the WCC.

Sometimes, too much money can lead to complacency, lack of meaningful development, and the willingness to chase what's hot or trendy, resulting in, basically, a pretty crap car, even if you have a two-time champion driving.

[ArrowsFA1]

Any driver hired by Flavio to second Fernando should not feel honored by this, IMO.
Should we assume that Briatore made the offer to Button after Honda had withdrawn and he appeared to have no F1 future? Or perhaps the offer was made before Alonso had been confirmed at Renault for 2009?

[SGWilko]

Do you find that it's a compliment to Jenson to be Alonso's new lap dog?
A replacement for Piquet Jr.?

Any driver hired by Flavio to second Fernando should not feel honored by this, IMO.

Rather than be something to pick up Nando's paper from the mat, I suspect, as with Lewis and Jarno, Jenson would be as good as Nando...

My dustbin truck driver would make a better pilot than Piquet Jnr....

I was not aware that is what Flavio offered to Button....

[ioan]

Rather than be something to pick up Nando's paper from the mat, I suspect, as with Lewis and Jarno, Jenson would be as good as Nando...

:rotflmao:

Good joke!

:rotflmao:

[V12]

I agree that Flav is a character that the sport would be poorer without. However, while I agree that he has the right to say and think what he likes, so do I. And for the foreseeable future I think I'll be cheering on those Renaults for 19th and 20th places.

I hate cliches but Brawn have been an absolute breath of fresh air - and so has the form of Williams and Toyota come to think of it. While half the grid was being babied along by the FIA championing their pseudo-innovative "KERS" systems, these three quietly went against the grain, and created clever designs that were actually effective. That's half of what this sport is supposed to be about!

[Roamy]

well a couple of things here: Flav is in the twilight of his career and you know Alonso is going to bolt after this year. Probably will take RB's place. Or Kimi's
So he is left with a sh!t car and a stone for a driver.

[555-04Q2]

Hey, who let fousto out his cage :?:

[Sleeper]

If being a charecter in F1 is slagging off the oposition when they do well and your team gets it wrong then F1 could do without these so called "charecters". I agree with Arrows, Briatore is an arse and only on occasion does he say anything particularly intelligent.

[F1boat]

well a couple of things here: Flav is in the twilight of his career and you know Alonso is going to bolt after this year. Probably will take RB's place. Or Kimi's
So he is left with a sh!t car and a stone for a driver.

I think that Flavio will retire after this year.

[keysersoze]

All this proves what we all know: that there is very little that separates a "good" driver from a "very good" driver, and that if the engineering is there, you only need a "good" driver. This has been true for years. Look at Damon Hill: can't race for beans, but had a talent for development, and managed to get hired by Williams.

I don't begrudge Jenson (or Rubens) for the boatload of points they will haul in this year--they are both good drivers. Neither are as talented as a Kimi or a Lewis (IMO), but both are former winners (Rubens in 2 different teams), and Jenson proved his worth in 2004 (IIRC), when he amassed 70+ points. To me, he very much deserves this break. If he had been in a Ferrari, Renault, or McLaren these past few years, he'd have as many wins as DC and RB, which ain't too shabby. Instead, he's as talented, if not more, than both, and only had one win until this season.

I think the reason Flav is so upset is that he knows he has the best driver on the grid (to me, FA is the only "great" driver in F1 right now) and he has very little chance to even be in the first 3-4 rows, and has no shot at winning.

[ShiftingGears]

:rotflmao:

Good joke!

:rotflmao:

Yep. I don't think Button is as complete as Alonso, at all.

[jens]

It looks like during the year we are going to get a lot of debates about whether Button is a worthy championship leader or just lucky cruiser. :p :

About "new pecking order". Let's see...
During winter tests several people were saying that former midfielders were showboating and teams like Ferrari/McLaren will inevitably end at the top.

Season has started and a similar feeling seems to be among fans that the success of former midfielders is just an anomaly and former greats will sooner or later establish themselves at the front.

What makes me ask here is that... is it realllly so difficult to understand that 'other teams' are very professional and actually can match or even beat the previous winners? What has created a theory that Ferrari/McLaren are inevitably the best teams in F1, status quo will stay until the end of World and the only way for others to beat them is by cheating (diffuser-gate)? I'd call that lack of flexibility by F1 followers.

F1 is in constant change, so are the teams. For example I see nothing in current Ferrari - greatest legend of all - that suggests they must be a top team. I'd say that for example Brawn GP is already a more professional team than them and would keep on doing better if only they could find enough funding... And Renault - sorry, but I really don't think they are quite the same any more as in 05-06... McLaren, I think, has great potential of rising back to the top though, if only they could stop shooting themselves in the feet with off-track actions...

Flavio a bad loser? - well, not a surprise to me!

[yodasarmpit]

I pretty much agree with him.

Given that he had Button in his team, he's much better positioned to judge him than any of us will ever be.

PS: I see you are starting to get to the lower level words in order to express an opinion, I wonder why?!



After the 'slow' Button put finishing Practice Two in China as the quickest driver, the Englishman hit back at the Renault boss - and revealed that Briatore had sought to hire him in the winter, presumably as a replacement for the hapless Nelson Piquet jir.

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5199773,00.html
OWNED


PS, sorry I'm a bit late, but couldn't resist.

[Garry Walker]

AFCA from autosport forums has translated this Q&A with Briatore. Absolutely brilliant answers by him. I love it when people say whats on their mind and dont pussyfoot around.

Q: The verdict is there: Ross Brawn was right.
Briatore: ''What was he right about ? The diffuser issue ? Imagine if someone would leave the earth for a year and comes back to find out that Reggina, Lecce, Bologna and Torino are at the top of the Serie A table while Milan, Juventus and Inter are fighting against relegation. In this same way a Formula 1 fan finds out that the championship can be won by someone that was (already) retired (Barrichello - AFCA), one that is as slow as a milepost (Button), Rosberg, Click, or perhaps Clock (Glock - AFCA), Naca...Naca...what's he called ? I don't even know...

Q: ...Nakajima. But your ungenerous towards Button.
Briatore: ''He's a good guy for heaven's sake. He's not someone that causes trouble, he's not 'dirty'.''

Q: Are you still prepared to help Brawn GP financially ?
Briatore: ''I'm not. Actually, at the next FOTA meeting I will propose that each team will keep the money that it intended to give Brawn GP. The FIA has proven Brawn GP right and we, for once will say the FIA is right: Brawn GP is a new team. It will have to do the same as us when we entered (F1). Brawn is richer than I am, than all of us.''

Q: Do you mean that Brawn GP has more money than the big teams ?
Briatore: ''He bought the team for € 1 and on top of that he has received € 130 million from Honda as if it were a newlywed getting money from her parents. € 100 million in cash, € 30 was the famous bonus we (the teams) were willing to pass on to them. Fortunately we haven't yet done so ! I will propose to keep that money: I have to spend a lot of it in order for Renault not to remain one second adrift of Brawn GP. The difference now is that I know where to get the money from !''

Q: Apart from coming up with a double-decker diffuser, what has Brawn done that makes you so angry ?
Briatore: ''He hasn't been transparent as the technical head of the FOTA, he knew (about the diffusers) but didn't say it. Ah, I will propose others to have that role, I no longer feel represented by him. In fact, it's better to put the first Chinese bloke that comes round the corner in that position. Also, Brawn has behaved in a very bad way, attacking everyone one-on-one in front of the Court of Appeal, and in a rude way towards Byrne. Without Byrne, Brawn('s career) wouldn't even exist, I know this very well because both of them worked at Benetton. Byrne is a loyal and honest person, Brawn shamelessly attacked him, and he's done the same thing towards the others. So, he's a genius and all the others are idiots ?''

Q: So could this ruin the unity with the FOTA ?
Briatore: ''Why ? The FOTA approve (on matters) with a majority of 70% of the votes, thank god we don't always have to agree all ten of us. There are some bandits in the sport, it's no longer possible to be monolithic on every issue.''

Q: Parr has accused Ferrari and McLaren of having won titles with illegal cars.
Briatore: ''And for these words someone, the FIA itself, could charge him. Parr is an idiot.''

Q: He's got a role within the FOTA.
Briatore: ''Yes, it's being a pain in the arse.''

Q: Getting back to the verdict: was it really a technical one, or was it political ?
Briatore: ''One of the judges (De Marco from Malta) has fallen to sleep, or he's simply no good, or he knew on forehand what the outcome was going to be. The others were ready to fly out at the airport: after an eight-hour hearing they came up with the verdict in one hour. I don't want to think that there has been the intention to manipulate the result of the championship. If it were like that then that would be very grave, but I repeat: I don't even want to think about it.''

Q: Is the FIA to blame ?
Briatore: ''Very much so, because this entire row should have been dealt with earlier. There are technical people which homework it is to prevent problems.''

Q: Would it be necessary to put someone alongside Charlie Whiting ?
Briatore: ''The FOTA has put forward Brawn as his technical counterpart: look at what a great technical package he came up with.''

Q: Do you step out of this chaos with at least one certainty ?
Briatore: ''Yes, if you fall down a manhole then it's not a 'hole' but an 'opening'.''

[gloomyDAY]

Excellent!

I especially like how he called Bunsen as slow as a post.

[veeten]

sum-up of article; :bigcry:

:p :

[yodasarmpit]

Q: He's got a role within the FOTA.
Briatore: ''Yes, it's being a pain in the arse.''
Awesome

[F1boat]

I certainly hope that the F1 teams cheat less that the Serie A teams... although highly offensive. And while the insults to Jenson and Rubens and Glock are simply a matter of bad taste, this Naka thing is horrible, almost racist. It is funny, but shows that Flav is very poor stuff.

[christophulus]

Q: Is the FIA to blame ?
Briatore: ''Very much so, because this entire row should have been dealt with earlier. There are technical people which homework it is to prevent problems.''


I think that sums it up for me. Complain all you want but it's ultimately the FIA's cock up that he has to deal with, no use going on about the other teams. They should have clarified it earlier.

[CNR]

he has a point brawn was payed a lot of money from honda that the other teams did not know about at the time they offered to support brawn
http://www.oncars.com/news-blogs/story/389/Honda-Sells-F1-Team-to-Ross-Brawn---Sheds-Its-Racing-Skin,-Literally

Honda Motor Company slipped out of Formula 1 this week, selling its factory team to Ross Brawn, who had been the Honda F1 Racing team principal. The deal cost the company some $200mUS, including fixed assets (leased land, buildings and equipment), a year's salary for the 700 staffers, plus the writing off of the debts owed Honda Motor Co. by the British-based racing team.

In addition, Honda paid Brawn GP the amount of money it would have had to pay Brawn and lead driver Jenson Button to cancel their contracts, both held by the automaker. (A further $0 has been deposited with Brawn GP to pay back television revenues owed Honda F1 by Bernie Ecclestone's Formula One Management.)

This deal has been long in the making, perhaps because Honda was aware that one of Brawn's primary backers might be Australian Internet gaming outfit Bwin Interactive Entertainment. Internet gaming is not legal in every country where F1 races.

[CNR]

the other side
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/motorsport/article2382565.ece



But Button, who was dumped by Briatore in 2001 after one season with Benetton, revealed his ex-boss tried to SIGN him for this year.

[markabilly]

Never had much use for favio the person and this interveiw confirms why....never forget listening to him tell FA during the Canadian GP, over and over again, the year when FA was going for his first WDC..."harder, harder, push it come on, push it harder and harder

[F1boat]

markabilly, as we all know, Formula 1 is the flying circus and it needs a clown ;)

[tacksharp]

Flavio's complaints about Brawn may be legitimate (we don't know what goes on behind closed doors), but his attacks on the drivers are ridiculous. I don't think his comments on Nakajima are racist, he just sees him as the token slow Japanese guy who comes with the Toyota engine. But it's not like Piquet deserved his seat last year either. Both have F1 roots and sponsored/favored drivers is just the way the business goes.



He (Brawn) hasn't been transparent as the technical head of the FOTA, he knew (about the diffusers) but didn't say it. Ah, I will propose others to have that role, I no longer feel represented by him. In fact, it's better to put the first Chinese bloke that comes round the corner in that position.

I hereby volunteer to take the position of technical head of FOTA. Oh hold it, I'm not Chinese, do I still qualify?

[ioan]

sum-up of article; :bigcry:

:p :

Why should he? He's got one of the best drivers on the grid sitting on the front row for tomorrows race!

[F1boat]

Cunning old Flav,infuriated all and then get P2... I wonder what he will say now... lol

[ioan]

Cunning old Flav,infuriated all and then get P2... I wonder what he will say now... lol

That he's got the best driver, what else? Also that Jenson is as fast as a post in the best car. :laugh:

Flav isn't my cup of tea as a person, but I appreciate his straight talking nature. No cuddling and sweet words, just the bare truth.

[DexDexter]

That he's got the best driver, what else? Also that Jenson is as fast as a post in the best car. :laugh:

Flav isn't my cup of tea as a person, but I appreciate his straight talking nature. No cuddling and sweet words, just the bare truth.

If Flavio was at Ferrari, those Baldisseris etc would be making pizzas instead of being transferred to a "factory role". Not a very nice man, but gets things done.

[F1boat]

Let's wait till the race before praising him too much, as I remember the Spanish GP last year... P2 sounds nice, but they give the points tomorrow.

[ioan]

If Flavio was at Ferrari, those Baldisseris etc would be making pizzas instead of being transferred to a "factory role". Not a very nice man, but gets things done.

He is indeed a good manager.
On the other hand if we got to the point of hailing Flav's abilities it means that Ferrari's management must be doing a hell of bad job.

[aryan]

Why should he? He's got one of the best drivers on the grid sitting on the front row for tomorrows race!

Let's wait for the fuel levels to come out before jumping to conclusions. I wouldn't be suprrised if Alonso is fuled for 7-8 laps, and starts on the super soft.

[ioan]

Let's wait for the fuel levels to come out before jumping to conclusions. I wouldn't be suprrised if Alonso is fuled for 7-8 laps, and starts on the super soft.

Which is the most intelligent thing to do unless one wants to lose all the results of a hard work in the last laps of the race.

[F1boat]

Let's wait for the fuel levels to come out before jumping to conclusions. I wouldn't be suprrised if Alonso is fuled for 7-8 laps, and starts on the super soft.

RBR's Horner also hinted about "aggresive" strategy.

[Dave B]

Flavio's now been bitching about Brawn's share of the TV money, saying that as poor ickle Renault have to spend money doing their jobs properly they should be entitled to Ross' share. :rolleyes:


I don't want to be a Robin Hood, but when there's a situation where everyone is transparent then it's fine.

"At this moment my position is, since I need to find the money in the budget somewhere and the season can't end up with [everyone] being one second behind the Brawn cars, then the money share will have to be reviewed in full. I think it's around 30 million Euros


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74562

Strange then, when Renault were winning championships, that I didn't see Briatore offering to help other teams catch up. Hypocrite.

[Tazio]

Let's wait for the fuel levels to come out before jumping to conclusions. I wouldn't be suprrised if Alonso is fuled for 7-8 laps, and starts on the super soft.Not a bad strategy unless it rains. Especially if he can jump SV!

Strange then, when Renault were winning championships, that I didn't see Briatore offering to help other teams catch up. Hypocrite.

Can you read?

He says he isn't giving Brawn money, so that he can spend his money himself.

The only hypocrites are the ones who criticise somebody for not giving his money away.

[Tazio]

Flavio's now been bitching about Brawn's share of the TV money, saying that as poor ickle Renault have to spend money doing their jobs properly they should be entitled to Ross' share. :rolleyes:



http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74562

Strange then, when Renault were winning championships, that I didn't see Briatore offering to help other teams catch up. Hypocrite.

"My proposal will be as follows. Brawn is richer than anyone else, because he's had his team paid for in full by Honda, plus he's had 130 millions given to him [by Honda]: he's certainly richer than I am

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74562

That agreement was made before Brawn disclosed the 100 million they got from Honda. That changes the landscape and I don't blame him!

I agree with Arrows, Briatore is an arse and only on occasion does he say anything particularly intelligent.

Funny isn't it how when Arrows calls somebody an "arse" it's perfectly acceptable old bean, but when Jackie Stewart gets called a "half wit" then it's a disgrace.

What is disgusting is that somebody who kicked up such a stink about the "half wit" comment then uses worse language when it suits him.

[Dave B]

Some rare sensible words from Bernie:


F1 Chief Executive Bernie Ecclestone commented: I don't know what Flav is on about. Ross has done a brilliant job, and as for Button being slow, he is now showing what he can do with a fast car."

"If anyone has been slow it has been the other teams and I don't think we should be hearing them complaining when the tables are turned. They have all had their bright ideas down the years which needed official scrutiny."

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090418074355.shtml

That agreement was made before Brawn disclosed the 100 million they got from Honda. That changes the landscape and I don't blame him!

100% agree, but it does feck the notion that Brawn are plucky underdogs....and the British do love a plucky underdog.

Of course, anybody with half a brain could see that a fully funded Honda-paid-for team should be treated as anything but a charity case.

[Tazio]

I think the reason Flav is so upset is that he knows he has the best driver on the grid (to me, FA is the only "great" driver in F1 right now) and he has very little chance to even be in the first 3-4 rows, and has no shot at winning.
Never sell Fred or Renault short! I think Flav is pissed about what he is having to go through
to keep the best driver in the series with Renault. It's costing him a ton of loot.
But it apears he is determined to keep Fred on board at any cost.

[ioan]

Funny isn't it how when Arrows calls somebody an "arse" it's perfectly acceptable old bean, but when Jackie Stewart gets called a "half wit" then it's a disgrace.

What is disgusting is that somebody who kicked up such a stink about the "half wit" comment then uses worse language when it suits him.

You still surprized? Double standards are the standard around here, always been always will be.
These people can't change, they are like McLaren! ;)

You still surprized?

No, mate, not surprised. Just appalled at the lack of moral fibre of some. Dogs have more standards.

[F1boat]

Some rare sensible words from Bernie:


http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090418074355.shtml

Yes! I am surprised that I agree with Bernie :)

[ioan]

No, mate, not surprised. Just appalled at the lack of moral fibre of some. Dogs have more standards.

I gave up expecting too much, a long time ago.

[jens]

Which is the most intelligent thing to do unless one wants to lose all the results of a hard work in the last laps of the race.

Didn't you criticize Ferrari's choice of running with supersofts during the first stint in Oz, because after an early stop it would mean dropping to the back of the field and get stuck behind heavy and slow cars. Alonso doesn't have KERS any more either, so...

[ioan]

Didn't you criticize Ferrari's choice of running with supersofts during the first stint in Oz, because after an early stop it would mean dropping to the back of the field and get stuck behind heavy and slow cars. Alonso doesn't have KERS any more either, so...

Yes I did.
Ferrari's problem in OZ was that they didn't start at the front and were fueled for way more laps than what the tires could cope with and thus they weren't able to take advantage of the performance of the tires.

RBR and Alonso are, however, fueled accordingly to the tire life expectations and could find themselves 5-7th after their first stops but still 3-5th after everyone did their first stops.

Just wait and see how Hamilton will jump to 4th at the start and hold up the rest of the cars while the top 3 will run away.

PS: Where did you read that Alonso doesn't have KERS installed?

[jens]

PS: Where did you read that Alonso doesn't have KERS installed?

Post-qualifying press conference. ;)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74596

[Valve Bounce]

That he's got the best driver, what else? Also that Jenson is as fast as a post in the best car. :laugh:



OK!! straight bet: Alonso vs bunsen for a sig bet; are you game?

[ioan]

OK!! straight bet: Alonso vs bunsen for a sig bet; are you game?

Sorry Valve, as I said a few years ago, I never bet. It's a principle I'm not willing to break. :)

[Dave B]

Dignified response from Ross Brawn:



"I would rather not talk about it," Brawn said when asked by AUTOSPORT if he was concerned about the money being cut off by Briatore's plan.

"It is a shame that he brings those things into the public arena, as it is FOTA business. But that is his style. I would rather not talk about it."

He added: "Flavio is very flamboyant, isn't he? He is great with the one-liners and that is his forte. I'm not, so I am not going to respond."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74600

[Charlie]

It's funny that Briatore is calling Barichello a pensioner considoring he is over 22 years older than him. I wish Briatore would just shut up. Regardless of these new rules Renault haven't built a race winning car for three years and I think it's great for F1 that independants like Brawn, Red Bull and Williams are competitive.

[UltimateDanGTR]

I think Flavs problem is that he has forgotten how to lose and be in the midfield after they where the best for two years. before that they were a midfield team, and flavs team (including benetton years) had been midfield (mostly high end midfield mind)since 1996.

then they were champs for 2 years, and since then they've been a midfield team. and I dont think Briatore likes that and he has a problem with being in the midfield after two years of dominance. hes forgotten how to run a midfield team if you like because he expects to be the best. and so things look bad to him because they're not as good as they briefly were.

thats not a personal attack on Flavio, its just the way he is. I think though he needs to get in touch of reality, realise that renault is a midfield team, get used to it, before driving the team to move up the grid again like we know he can

[ioan]

Dignified response from Ross Brawn:

"I would rather not talk about it," Brawn said when asked by AUTOSPORT if he was concerned about the money being cut off by Briatore's plan.

"It is a shame that he brings those things into the public arena, as it is FOTA business. But that is his style. I would rather not talk about it."

He added: "Flavio is very flamboyant, isn't he? He is great with the one-liners and that is his forte. I'm not, so I am not going to respond."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74600

I rather appreciate Briattore's straight talking than Brawn's obvious intention to hide the reality from us.

Be a man Ross and acknowledge that your actions, given your position as FOTA technical director, are damaging the FOTA. Maybe I'm asking to much from him.

[ioan]

I think Flavs problem is that he has forgotten how to lose and be in the midfield after they where the best for two years.

Really? How about not being the best for the last 2 seasons?

Flavio said what he thought, and that is something to be appreciated with all the politics and hypocrisy going on in F1, and IMO he is right.

[SGWilko]

Never had much use for favio the person and this interveiw confirms why....never forget listening to him tell FA during the Canadian GP, over and over again, the year when FA was going for his first WDC..."harder, harder, push it come on, push it harder and harder

Ah, so Chavio is a closet Salt 'n Peppa fan.......

[SGWilko]

That he's got the best driver, what else? Also that Jenson is as fast as a post in the best car. :laugh:

Flav isn't my cup of tea as a person, but I appreciate his straight talking nature. No cuddling and sweet words, just the bare truth.

Thanks for the giggle - will the Renault make it round the parade lap - lightest car on the grid you know.........

Chavio and Onslo, they deserve each other brotha

[SGWilko]

Can you read?

He says he isn't giving Brawn money, so that he can spend his money himself.

The only hypocrites are the ones who criticise somebody for not giving his money away.

Tell you what, let Chavio keep his money, let Brawn go to the wall, then call up Carlos Gohn, and tell him his cake sucker F1 team manager has made it so his team has to run three cars now due to a lack of teams.

All that waste of space model screwer ever does is moan......

What a collosal oik......

[SGWilko]

I rather appreciate Briattore's straight talking than Brawn's obvious intention to hide the reality from us.

Be a man Ross and acknowledge that your actions, given your position as FOTA technical director, are damaging the FOTA. Maybe I'm asking to much from him.

Turn it in already.......

Brawn offered ALL the others an OLIVE BRANCH by offering to clean up the rules. Some said no because they clearly had their own agendas.....

Did you conveniently omit that bit?

How absent minded of you old bean.

[UltimateDanGTR]

Really? How about not being the best for the last 2 seasons?

Flavio said what he thought, and that is something to be appreciated with all the politics and hypocrisy going on in F1, and IMO he is right.

thats what Im saying, Flavio's problem is that he cant get used to being in the midfield anymore, despite being in it for 2 seasons, after renault were what they were from 05-06. ;) and thats why things seems to be bad at renault in his point of view ;) (It comes across that way :rolleyes: )


However, I respect his outspoken, no nonsense say-what-i-think-and-what-i-want attitude, thats good, we need a man like that, but what he thinks is not neccesarily what is right, or what I think or what whoever else thinks ;)

[aryan]

Which is the most intelligent thing to do unless one wants to lose all the results of a hard work in the last laps of the race.
Depends on where he comes out after his pitstop. If he is behind some very heavy cars for a very long time, he wouldn't have a chance for scoring a point.

Also, the traditional wisdom is that you put the super soft at the end of the race, cause the track has more rubber on it, and therefore the super softs will last longer.

It's a risky strategy IMO, but I think, considering where the Renault is, they are making the right decision by gambling on this. As you say, it might just work out for them.

[CNR]

from what i can make out even though brawn f1 is classed as a new entry they will get the TV money for honda
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/motor-racing/red-bull-find-wings-but-no-panic-button-1670952.html

Just in case nobody got that message, he later launched another broadside at Brawn, claiming that they should not receive any of the £25 million TV money that would have been payable to the now-defunct Honda team in 2009. And – you'll love this – he suggested that it should instead be shared among those teams

[markabilly]

I rather appreciate Briattore's straight talking than Brawn's obvious intention to hide the reality from us.

Be a man Ross and acknowledge that your actions, given your position as FOTA technical director, are damaging the FOTA. Maybe I'm asking to much from him.
Still hurting and whining over your loss?
How different it is, when he is no longer at Ferrari...

[Dave B]

Now that Red Bull have pulled off a 1-2 finish without trick diffusers, Flavio should STFU and concentrate on his own team's shortcomings, not the least of which is their number 2 driver.

[gloomyDAY]

You're right Dave. Flavio should be more concerned with giving the Asturian Princess more than 8 laps of fuel, hiring a competent second driver, and lastly developing a competitive car.

[ioan]

Flav was right about the pensioner and the curbstone! Finishing so far behind Vettel and Webber in a dominant car is clearly showing that when it's down to driver ability Flav was 100% right.

Humble pie is served for those who called Flav an arse! Bon appetit!

[Dave B]

Is it [the Brawn] a dominant car in the wet, though? They've had precicesly zero wet-weather testing, and in the very wet stages of the race were a lot heavier. I don't think it's fair to draw conclusions from China, and in any case that's merely deflecting from the actual point which is Flavio's pathetic attempt to blame anybody else but his own team for Renault's shortcomings.

Red Bull had the same sort of fuel load as Alonso this weekend, and converted it into a 1-2 while one Renault driver went from 2nd to 9th and the other will probably have finished by Tuesday afternoon.

[ArrowsFA1]

Remind me where Alonso and Piquet finished and who is where in both championships?

Briatore should concentrate on his team instead of criticising the Brawn drivers and denying Brawn money they are due simply because they've done a better job.

[ioan]

Is it [the Brawn] a dominant car in the wet, though?

As far as we know in the wet the driver's bum is what need to be dominant.
Even if we would put both cars equal still the Brawn drivers are not complete drivers, they are good journeymen.

[ioan]

Remind me where Alonso and Piquet finished and who is where in both championships?

Briatore should concentrate on his team instead of criticising the Brawn drivers and denying Brawn money they are due simply because they've done a better job.

Sorry mate, but that doesn't make Buttona and Rubens any faster.
Take another piece of humble pie, you earned it, again.

Those complaining about Flavio speaking his mind....should Jackie Stewart stfu too?

Barrichello was and is a waste of a competitive seat...once again failing to maximise a brilliant car.

[Dave B]

Those complaining about Flavio speaking his mind....should Jackie Stewart stfu too?
I imagine that today he's pretty pleased to see the latest incarnation of team he founded then sold at a healthy profit winning in such style.

I imagine that today he's pretty pleased to see the latest incarnation of team he founded then sold at a healthy profit winning in such style.

You mean the team that didn't win for 10 years thanks to his legacy?

[christophulus]

Is it [the Brawn] a dominant car in the wet, though? They've had precicesly zero wet-weather testing, and in the very wet stages of the race were a lot heavier. I don't think it's fair to draw conclusions from China, and in any case that's merely deflecting from the actual point which is Flavio's pathetic attempt to blame anybody else but his own team for Renault's shortcomings.

Button mentioned after the race that the car was "floating" around in the wet conditions, so they weren't as fast as they perhaps should have been. Just because they're the top cars in the dry doesn't automatically convert to best in the wet.

[ioan]

You mean the team that didn't win for 10 years thanks to his legacy?

;)

[christophulus]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74624


(Brawn) said his drivers had struggled to keep heat in their wet tyres as effectively as the Red Bulls had.
"We were struggling with tyre temperature after the safety car came in," Brawn explained. "That may have been a factor because when the cars came out after pitstops it didn't seem too bad, and when we could got temperature it was okay. Rubens actually had the fastest lap."

[ioan]

Button mentioned after the race that the car was "floating" around in the wet conditions, so they weren't as fast as they perhaps should have been. Just because they're the top cars in the dry doesn't automatically convert to best in the wet.

The others were floating around too, as we clearly saw. It was the same conditions for everyone and drivers made the different in the case of pretty equal cars.

Jenson and Rubens are not worthy of championship titles in F1.

[Dave B]

You mean the team that didn't win for 10 years thanks to his legacy?
The team which grabbed a P2 at Monco in its debut year, then won with Johnny Herbert in similar conditions to today. That Ford couldn't sustain that once they'd bought it is hardly Stewart's fault.

Anyway, once again we digress from the point of this thread: Flavio should stop deflecting. His team is massively underperforming, and slinging mud around won't help.

[ioan]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74624


(Brawn) said his drivers had struggled to keep heat in their wet tyres as effectively as the Red Bulls had.
"We were struggling with tyre temperature after the safety car came in," Brawn explained. "That may have been a factor because when the cars came out after pitstops it didn't seem too bad, and when we could got temperature it was okay. Rubens actually had the fastest lap."


Load of crap from Ross.
Button was 20 seconds behind Vettel after his last pitstop and ended up more than 40 seconds adrift at the end, with no SC in between.

Also if tire pressure was the problem why did they chose not to change Rubens tires at the lat pit stop?

Ross is trying to cover up for the drivers not being up to the task, and it's normal one's a pensioner and the other is a curbstone compared to Vettel.

Jenson is good when everything is right but that's it. I have a feeling he wouldn't have won in Sepang if the race would not have been stopped, so getting only 5 points was some divine justice.

[aryan]

Barrichello was and is a waste of a competitive seat...once again failing to maximise a brilliant car.

Speaking of waste... I think Flav should look closer at home. The biggest waste and discredit to F1 is his own driver.

[donKey jote]

one Renault driver went from 2nd to 9th and the other will probably have finished by Tuesday afternoon.

be fair now dave, he went from 2nd to LAST before the race as such even began, and then back up to 9th :)

still, could have been 6-7th but for a spin too many :dozey:


http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[jens]

I don't know about the car comparison between Red Bull and Brawn GP in the wet, but I definitely do rate the RBR driver line-up higher than Brawn's. Actually, IMO Red Bull has the best driver line-up in F1 at the moment. Feel free to disagree. ;)

But Button and Barrichello have proved to be quick wet weather drivers in the past, so there isn't an exact reason to dismiss their performances either, although... considering that Rubens is getting beaten by Jenson even by a bigger margin than he did by Michael years ago, I suspect RB's better days may be over...

[Charlie]

I don't know about the car comparison between Red Bull and Brawn GP in the wet, but I definitely do rate the RBR driver line-up higher than Brawn's. Actually, IMO Red Bull has the best driver line-up in F1 at the moment. Feel free to disagree. ;)

But Button and Barrichello have proved to be quick wet weather drivers in the past, so there isn't an exact reason to dismiss their performances either, although... considering that Rubens is getting beaten by Jenson even by a bigger margin than he did by Michael years ago, I suspect RB's better days may be over...

He was fasted driver around that circuit in the dry. Enough said, he's picking up the points aswell.

[Garry Walker]

I certainly hope that the F1 teams cheat less that the Serie A teams... although highly offensive. And while the insults to Jenson and Rubens and Glock are simply a matter of bad taste, this Naka thing is horrible, almost racist.

What the hell was RACIST about what flavio said about nakajima? Crazy.

[veeten]

I don't know about the car comparison between Red Bull and Brawn GP in the wet, but I definitely do rate the RBR driver line-up higher than Brawn's. Actually, IMO Red Bull has the best driver line-up in F1 at the moment. Feel free to disagree. ;)

Ok, I will! :D

In the words of an old Michelob advert...

'Some things, speak for themselves..."

DRIVER STANDINGS

01 Jenson Button 21
02 Rubens Barrichello 15
03 Sebastian Vettel 10
04 Timo Glock 10
05 Mark Webber 9.5
06 Jarno Trulli 8.5
07 Nick Heidfeld 4
08 Fernando Alonso 4
09 Heikki Kovalainen 4
10 Lewis Hamilton 4

CONSTRUCTOR STANDINGS

01 Brawn-Mercedes 36
02 RBR-Renault 19.5
03 Toyota 18.5
04 McLaren-Mercedes 8
05 BMW Sauber 4
06 Renault 4
07 STR-Ferrari 4
08 Williams-Toyota 3.5
09 Ferrari 0
10 Force India-Mercedes 0

[WSRfan82]

just think hes an an italian ass thats a sore losser and cant stand the fact the fact a new team like brawn is winning already and his team is not winning like they USE to. i dont hear alonso making a fuss nor Jr. end of the day it upto him and his team to get better and catch brawn gp and pther teams up...end of

[chuck34]

Has anyone thought that perhaps the thing that has made Brawn so dominant so far is exactly why they were not so good in the wet?

What I mean is, that their performance has everything to do with tire temperatures. In the dry, you try to get your tires up to temp fairly quickly (which in F1, most of that work is done by tire warmers) then you try to keep them "cool". That makes the tires "happy" and last for a long while.

The reverse is true in the rain. YOU NEED ALL THE HEAT IN THE TIRES YOU CAN GET. I don't know how to stress that more. Tires make grip with heat. Water strips heat from tires. If you can warm up the tires you are better off. Well it appears that the Brawn is a very nice car from the tire's point of view. That is a VERY good thing in the dry, but not so good in the wet.

The lack of testing in the wet that they had, means that they didn't know exactly how to change the car to work in the wet. They took a good stab at it and came up second best on the day. Not too shabby, if you ask me.

[Tumbo]

But that explanation doesn't then explain why they won in malaysia?

[ShiftingGears]

But that explanation doesn't then explain why they won in malaysia?

I thought they were pretty lucky that Webber pitted when he did in Malaysia.

[AndyL]

Has anyone thought that perhaps the thing that has made Brawn so dominant so far is exactly why they were not so good in the wet?

What I mean is, that their performance has everything to do with tire temperatures. In the dry, you try to get your tires up to temp fairly quickly (which in F1, most of that work is done by tire warmers) then you try to keep them "cool". That makes the tires "happy" and last for a long while.

The reverse is true in the rain. YOU NEED ALL THE HEAT IN THE TIRES YOU CAN GET. I don't know how to stress that more. Tires make grip with heat. Water strips heat from tires. If you can warm up the tires you are better off. Well it appears that the Brawn is a very nice car from the tire's point of view. That is a VERY good thing in the dry, but not so good in the wet.

The lack of testing in the wet that they had, means that they didn't know exactly how to change the car to work in the wet. They took a good stab at it and came up second best on the day. Not too shabby, if you ask me.

:up: Good assessment I think.


But that explanation doesn't then explain why they won in malaysia?

The majority of the race in Malaysia was in the dry, and when it rained it wasn't that hard at first... the major problem most people seemed to be having was preserving their wet tyres. Quite different from China where the track was covered in standing water from the start.

[chuck34]

But that explanation doesn't then explain why they won in malaysia?

They won in Malaysia because they were in front when it started raining, and as we all saw it was hard to even make up time on the guy ahead (providing he didn't spin), let alone pass the guy.

Plus Red Bull probably added a few "bits" that made their car better this week wet or dry.

[chuck34]

Re-thinking my above post a bit, I think I need to expand/modify a bit. When it started to rain in Malaysia, it was really a fairly light rain, but everyone went straight on to full wets. In this case, low water levels, you need to keep heat out of the full wet tires because the water isn't doing it for you. So in that case the Brawn's excelled again. Then the "big rain" came and no one could really do anything.

[woody2goody]

Has anyone thought that perhaps the thing that has made Brawn so dominant so far is exactly why they were not so good in the wet?

What I mean is, that their performance has everything to do with tire temperatures. In the dry, you try to get your tires up to temp fairly quickly (which in F1, most of that work is done by tire warmers) then you try to keep them "cool". That makes the tires "happy" and last for a long while.

The reverse is true in the rain. YOU NEED ALL THE HEAT IN THE TIRES YOU CAN GET. I don't know how to stress that more. Tires make grip with heat. Water strips heat from tires. If you can warm up the tires you are better off. Well it appears that the Brawn is a very nice car from the tire's point of view. That is a VERY good thing in the dry, but not so good in the wet.

The lack of testing in the wet that they had, means that they didn't know exactly how to change the car to work in the wet. They took a good stab at it and came up second best on the day. Not too shabby, if you ask me.

I agree 100%, I thought that on Sunday.

Besides, the Red Bull is just a better car in the wet. To be honest, Jenson did well to keep them honest as long as he did.

About the topic, and Flavio again: he's bitter, simple as that. He needs to be sorting out the brick of a car they have, and the incompetence of his second driver, rather than trying (hopelessly I might add) to rile the championship leaders.

Alonso has done a brilliant job for them over the last two years, to little avail. This year he has been as good as ever, but unless Renault can give him a good car he is wasting the best years of his career due to no fault of his own.

Briatore needs to grow up, and act like an experienced team owner, and not some kind of childish Peter Stringfellow wannabe. Like someone said earlier on in the thread, he needs to take a leaf out of his drivers' book. To say something for Piquet at least he's not crying about his misfortunes and making excuses like his team manager.

I think that Flavio has a right to be angry.

2006 - Mass Damper ruled illegal. A clever and careful interpretation of the rules.
2009 - Double Diffuser ruled legal. A clever and careful interpretation of the rules.

Now, call me cynical, but when one decision favoured Ferrari and a German driver, there was outrage on this forum....but now the latest decision favours a British team and, oh look, what a surprise, a British driver, it's suddenly a fantastic decision!

[F1boat]

I think that Flavio has a right to be angry.

2006 - Mass Damper ruled illegal. A clever and careful interpretation of the rules.
2009 - Double Diffuser ruled legal. A clever and careful interpretation of the rules.

Now, call me cynical, but when one decision favoured Ferrari and a German driver, there was outrage on this forum....but now the latest decision favours a British team and, oh look, what a surprise, a British driver, it's suddenly a fantastic decision!

In my opinion in 2006 FIA made a mistake and in 2009 it was right.

[chuck34]

I agree 100%, I thought that on Sunday.

Besides, the Red Bull is just a better car in the wet. To be honest, Jenson did well to keep them honest as long as he did.

About the topic, and Flavio again: he's bitter, simple as that. He needs to be sorting out the brick of a car they have, and the incompetence of his second driver, rather than trying (hopelessly I might add) to rile the championship leaders.

Alonso has done a brilliant job for them over the last two years, to little avail. This year he has been as good as ever, but unless Renault can give him a good car he is wasting the best years of his career due to no fault of his own.

Briatore needs to grow up, and act like an experienced team owner, and not some kind of childish Peter Stringfellow wannabe. Like someone said earlier on in the thread, he needs to take a leaf out of his drivers' book. To say something for Piquet at least he's not crying about his misfortunes and making excuses like his team manager.

Agreed. If they got a better 2nd driver it would probably help speed up development.

[chuck34]

In my opinion in 2006 FIA made a mistake and in 2009 it was right.

Agreed on this one too. The mass damper should never have been deemed illegal. However, we now have J-dampers that do pretty much the same thing, and in my opinion, they do the job better. Another case of clever engineers figuring things out.

[woody2goody]

I think that Flavio has a right to be angry.

2006 - Mass Damper ruled illegal. A clever and careful interpretation of the rules.
2009 - Double Diffuser ruled legal. A clever and careful interpretation of the rules.

Now, call me cynical, but when one decision favoured Ferrari and a German driver, there was outrage on this forum....but now the latest decision favours a British team and, oh look, what a surprise, a British driver, it's suddenly a fantastic decision!

The mass damper thing was awful. The FIA tried their best to rob the championship from Renault that year. Just like in 03 when Williams and McLAren lost out because of the tyre protests.

I don't think it has anything to do with nationality. I'm British and I was outraged by the mass damper situation. Just like I was outraged with the protests from BMW et al this year.

[SGWilko]

Now, call me cynical

Tamb, you know what?

You're cynical...

;)

[F1boat]

The mass damper thing was awful. The FIA tried their best to rob the championship from Renault that year. Just like in 03 when Williams and McLAren lost out because of the tyre protests.

I don't think it has anything to do with nationality. I'm British and I was outraged by the mass damper situation. Just like I was outraged with the protests from BMW et al this year.

Yeah, and I am Bulgarian, so you can't accuse me of bias ;)

[I am evil Homer]

I don't think it's a conspiracy just that the FIA got it horribly wrong with the mass damper

[F1boat]

Yes. I am always disappointed when teams are punished because they are smart.

[TheFamousEccles]

Hmm, is it just me, or do other people, when they see Flav, have awful images of a walnut in budgie smugglers?

Uggghh!!

I don't think it's a conspiracy just that the FIA got it horribly wrong with the mass damper

So, surely, Flavio has a right to be peeved. His team lost out with a dubious decision, whilst other teams haven't. That's a good a reason to express annoyance as any.

Add to which, the FIA ruling on the Double Diffuser offers nothing in the way of clarifying why the Double Diffuser is legal. It's a prime example of "We are right, because we say so".

Given that, Flavio has a pretty good case for feeling aggreived. Sure, his character and personality might not be to everyones taste, but that shouldn't take away the fact that his argument, from his viewpoint, is sound.

[AndyL]

Add to which, the FIA ruling on the Double Diffuser offers nothing in the way of clarifying why the Double Diffuser is legal. It's a prime example of "We are right, because we say so".

It did do a reasonable job of explaining why the other teams' appeal was rejected though, which to be fair was the point of it. The hearing was to consider an appeal against the stewards' decision rather than to explain why that decision was made in the first place.

I think you could argue that it shows that the diffuser is legal because none of the other teams could come up with a rule that showed it to be illegal.

[AndyL]

Hmm, is it just me, or do other people, when they see Flav, have awful images of a walnut in budgie smugglers?

Uggghh!!

I had to look up "budgie smugglers," and now I wish I hadn't because there are some things that once imagined, cannot be unimagined :uhoh:

[Dave B]

Flavio's got a fair point about FIA inconsistency, the Renault's trick dampers were an excellent example of a team pushing the rules and finding a loophole. But that makes it all the more hypocritical that he's now criticising the diffuser users for doing the exact same thing.