Kidnapped Captain rescued by Seals.

[Valve Bounce]

The U.S. Captain who was kidnapped by Somali pirates has been rescued by U.S. Navy Seals. Snipers shot dead 3 of the pirates and arrested the fourth bugger. Good Job!!! http://www.theage.com.au/world/piratehostage-captain-freed-in-deadly-firefight-20090413-a46g.html

[markabilly]

just don't tell eki....he was planning to visit with them on his way to meet with the president of iran....he might put off his trip and we would not want that....

[Easy Drifter]

He will just have to go to North Korea instead of Somali.

[Mark in Oshawa]

My only concern is the pirates may be a little more nasty with the next people they capture figuring to scare off a military solution.

Don't get me wrong, glad Obama had a set and allowed the Seals to do the deed, but I wonder how the pirates will respond. It could get interesting. That said, you allow piracy to continue and you will end up in a place you don't want to go....

[Easy Drifter]

Too bad that we can't do what the Royal Navy used to do on occassion.
A few pirates dangling from ships' masts might be quite a deterrent. :vader:
Relax I know that will not happen.

[steve_spackman]

Too bad that we can't do what the Royal Navy used to do on occassion.
A few pirates dangling from ships' masts might be quite a deterrent. :vader:
Relax I know that will not happen.

that would be fun....

[Valve Bounce]

Too bad that we can't do what the Royal Navy used to do on occassion.
A few pirates dangling from ships' masts might be quite a deterrent. :vader:
Relax I know that will not happen.

Funny you should say that. I was listening to talk back radio a couple of days ago, and a retired sea captain of some 30 plus years at sea told a harrowing story about how they dealt with pirates off the coast of The Philippines and Indonesia. Pirates have been a common scourge along the Straits of Malacca between Malaysia and Indonesia. This captain said that they had armed men on the ships and they just shot the pirates dead for years and just never publicized it.

The only solution is to patrol the sea lanes with ships with helicopters on board, and just blow these pirates out of the water before they can get to the ships. Basically, there are no hard and fast laws on the open sea.

[Easy Drifter]

Most of the naval ships patrolling in the area have 'Rule of Engagement' constraints. They are not supposed to fire until fired upon, or at least feel they are in danger. A warship is not under much real threat from speedboats armed with AK47's or maybe a gernade launcher so they almost have to be fired upon.
Originally the RCN Frigates did not carry machine guns, just their much larger 57 and 20 mm guns plus missles. Six .50 caliber machine guns were added when it was realized what they were likely to encounter was just small vessels.
It is clear the INS warships are not going to be bound by the 'Rules of Engagement' and I doubt that the Chinese or Russian ships or choppers will.
The French and now the USN have, shall we say, bent the rules a bit so maybe the other nations including the RCN and the RN will too. A few Harrier jets would be an interesting addition to the protection as they could cover more sea far faster than any chopper and still slow right down and even hover.

[Valve Bounce]

It is my understanding that the US Navy only fired after they were given the OK by none other than Obama. However, now that the "pirates" leader has directly threatened Americans (from the US I presume), this presidential K may not be so necessary in the future.

[schmenke]

Umm... the thread title is a tad misleading... It should read "Kidnapped Captain rescued by SEALs", not "...Seals..." :p :

[jim mcglinchey]

Dont you know the US Navy have been training sea mammals for years in covert marine warfare ??!!

[markabilly]

Too bad that we can't do what the Royal Navy used to do on occassion.
A few pirates dangling from ships' masts might be quite a deterrent. :vader:
.

Maybe not to the others, but those dangling certainly would not be doing any more pirating :vader:

[Eki]

Some Finnish documentary film makers have made a documentary about the Somali pirates. They said they wanted to get the pirates' side of the story and told that the pirates are former fishermen who have lost their livelihood.

http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/2009/04/quotfinnishquot_somali_pirate_makes_waves_689989.h tml

[chuck34]

Some Finnish documentary film makers have made a documentary about the Somali pirates. They said they wanted to get the pirates' side of the story and told that the pirates are former fishermen who have lost their livelihood.

http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/2009/04/quotfinnishquot_somali_pirate_makes_waves_689989.h tml

So if I loose my job, I can go out and commit any crime I want? Awesome!

[Eki]

So if I loose my job, I can go out and commit any crime I want? Awesome!
That's not what they said, just that they wanted to see the reasons. And I think you have more options to stay alive even as unemployed where you are than those in Somalia.

[Camelopard]

So if I loose my job, I can go out and commit any crime I want? Awesome!

It seems quite often if you loose your job in the states you go back and kill your former work mates or your family or those that had previously tried to help you. :)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/05/MNIT16T1T1.DTL

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/la-man-loses-job-kills-kids-wife-self/416274/

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/mar2004/tran-m04.shtml


goes to show that it can happen anywhere doesn't it?

and no I don't support the pirates actions, I'm just trying to point out how silly your reply was. :)

[chuck34]

That's not what they said, just that they wanted to see the reasons. And I think you have more options to stay alive even as unemployed where you are than those in Somalia.

So that makes turning to crime ok?

[chuck34]

It seems quite often if you loose your job in the states you go back and kill your former work mates or your family or those that had previously tried to help you. :)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/05/MNIT16T1T1.DTL

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/la-man-loses-job-kills-kids-wife-self/416274/

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/mar2004/tran-m04.shtml


goes to show that it can happen anywhere doesn't it?

and no I don't support the pirates actions, I'm just trying to point out how silly your reply was. :)


My reply was not silly. Eki is trying to justify these criminal's actions because they are out of work. Being out of work is NEVER a justification for commiting crimes. Whether you're in the US, Canada, Finland, or Somolia.

[Camelopard]

My reply was not silly. Eki is trying to justify these criminal's actions because they are out of work. Being out of work is NEVER a justification for commiting crimes. Whether you're in the US, Canada, Finland, or Somolia.

"Some Finnish documentary film makers have made a documentary about the Somali pirates. They said they wanted to get the pirates' side of the story and told that the pirates are former fishermen who have lost their livelihood."

I can't see anything in the above where Eki is trying to justify the actions of the pirates, he was merely pointing out the existence of the film made by some others.


I bet Eki sits back and giggles when he thinks of the lather you guys get yourselves into when he posts stuff like this!


Speaking of Pirates I bought 2 and 3 of the Jack Sparrow series yesterday as they were on special. Shall enjoy watching them over the next 2 nights with a couple of glasses of fine red wine.

[chuck34]

"Some Finnish documentary film makers have made a documentary about the Somali pirates. They said they wanted to get the pirates' side of the story and told that the pirates are former fishermen who have lost their livelihood."

I can't see anything in the above where Eki is trying to justify the actions of the pirates, he was merely pointing out the existence of the film made by some others.


I bet Eki sits back and giggles when he thinks of the lather you guys get yourselves into when he posts stuff like this!


Speaking of Pirates I bought 2 and 3 of the Jack Sparrow series yesterday as they were on special. Shall enjoy watching them over the next 2 nights with a couple of glasses of fine red wine.

Why would he post that other than to try and give some justification for their actions?

Oh and don't worry yourself, I don't let Eki get me worked up. It's more funny to me to see how delusional he can be most of the time.

[Eki]

So that makes turning to crime ok?
No, but more understandable. I think you and I might do the same under the same circumstances. I've read that some civilized people have even turned to cannibalism in order to avoid starvation. It doesn't make cannibalism OK, but more understandable.

[chuck34]

No, but more understandable. I think you and I might do the same under the same circumstances. I've read that some civilized people have even turned to cannibalism in order to avoid starvation. It doesn't make cannibalism OK, but more understandable.

No, I would not turn to crime. And as far out there as I think you are sometimes, I don't believe you would either. That is why it is not ok. Reasonable people will not do this type of thing.

Cannibalism is a bit of a differnt story. If I'm stuck in the wilderness with no hope of rescue, I might think about it, but it would take quite a bit of thinking and going against my nature. Think about the movie/book/true story of Alive.

[airshifter]

Some Finnish documentary film makers have made a documentary about the Somali pirates. They said they wanted to get the pirates' side of the story and told that the pirates are former fishermen who have lost their livelihood.

http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/2009/04/quotfinnishquot_somali_pirate_makes_waves_689989.h tml


Luckily, those unemployed fishermen turned pirates employ those that shoot them in the head. Isn't it funny how the things in life happen in cycles?

[markabilly]

It seems quite often if you loose your job in the states you go back and kill your former work mates or your family or those that had previously tried to help you. :)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/05/MNIT16T1T1.DTL

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/la-man-loses-job-kills-kids-wife-self/416274/

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/mar2004/tran-m04.shtml


. :)
If i get banned I am going to kill my computer

[Valve Bounce]

Some Finnish documentary film makers have made a documentary about the Somali pirates. They said they wanted to get the pirates' side of the story and told that the pirates are former fishermen who have lost their livelihood.

http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/2009/04/quotfinnishquot_somali_pirate_makes_waves_689989.h tml

That's true. I read somewhere that this guy with a beard kept walking on the water there and scared all the fish away.

[anthonyvop]

I had a liberal friend of mine tell me that I the US should not have been so quick to shoot the Pirates.

She said we have know idea what was going on in their heads.

I couldn't help but laugh when I told her that I know exactly what went through their heads.......7.62mm NATO rounds.

[Roamy]

I had a liberal friend of mine tell me that I the US should not have been so quick to shoot the Pirates.

She said we have know idea what was going on in their heads.

I couldn't help but laugh when I told her that I know exactly what went through their heads.......7.62mm NATO rounds.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Hope they were hollow points

[Easy Drifter]

Maybe Eki will be kind enough to give us the reason the Somali fishermen lost their livilhoods from fishing.
I would certainly expect the Finnish documentary would have looked into that.
From what I have read one of the problems the naval forces in the area are having is the number of legitimate fishing vessels in those waters.

[Eki]

Maybe Eki will be kind enough to give us the reason the Somali fishermen lost their livilhoods from fishing.
I would certainly expect the Finnish documentary would have looked into that.
From what I have read one of the problems the naval forces in the area are having is the number of legitimate fishing vessels in those waters.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1892376,00.html


Ever since a civil war brought down Somalia's last functional government in 1991, the country's 3,330 km (2,000 miles) of coastline — the longest in continental Africa — has been pillaged by foreign vessels. A United Nations report in 2006 said that, in the absence of the country's at one time serviceable coastguard, Somali waters have become the site of an international "free for all," with fishing fleets from around the world illegally plundering Somali stocks and freezing out the country's own rudimentarily-equipped fishermen. According to another U.N. report, an estimated $300 million worth of seafood is stolen from the country's coastline each year. "In any context," says Gustavo Carvalho, a London-based researcher with Global Witness, an environmental NGO, "that is a staggering sum."


Beyond illegal fishing, foreign ships have also long been accused by local fishermen of dumping toxic and nuclear waste off Somalia's shores. A 2005 United Nations Environmental Program report cited uranium radioactive and other hazardous deposits leading to a rash of respiratory ailments and skin diseases breaking out in villages along the Somali coast. According to the U.N., at the time of the report, it cost $2.50 per ton for a European company to dump these types of materials off the Horn of Africa, as opposed to $250 per ton to dispose of them cleanly in Europe.

I would be pissed if I were a Somali fisherman.

[Valve Bounce]

I think Eki has a very strong argument here. The problem here is that there is no way any legitimate Somali Government could now protect there fishing waters and not take strong action against the pirates. They are caught in a very difficult situation here. Obviously, any government force would be under-armed and under-financed compared with the pirates.

[Eki]

I think Eki has a very strong argument here. The problem here is that there is no way any legitimate Somali Government could now protect there fishing waters and not take strong action against the pirates. They are caught in a very difficult situation here. Obviously, any government force would be under-armed and under-financed compared with the pirates.
That's why I think the SEALS and other international navies in the area should also protect the Somali waters from international fishing fleets and shady waste-disposal entrepreneurs in addition to pirates. They should also try to treat the cause and not just the symptom.

[ShiftingGears]

No, I would not turn to crime. And as far out there as I think you are sometimes, I don't believe you would either. That is why it is not ok. Reasonable people will not do this type of thing.

That depends on their upbringing, situation and how desperate they are. It might be going against their nature, too.

Though it isn't an excuse not to be punished.

[A.F.F.]

Having read what finnish media had to tell about this story, I see lots of similarities how Somalian people act here as refugees. I have had male Somalian customers claimed to be fifteen to seventeen and I could swear they were over their twenties. I have come across shoplifters who only stole because they needed food. Well, I guess they eat IPods and DVDs in Somalia :rolleyes: I also met a rapist who told it was ok because that's how they work dating in their home village.

Something fundamentally wrong must be there at the horn of Africa because everything they do, the rest of the world should understand.

How US acted by saving the captain and capturing that claimed to be a teenager pirate was IMO totally right. Somebody has to show them what will happen if they continue **** things up. That's the problem here in Finland. We treat people coming here like we're the guests. They tell us jump and we only ask how high.

That's why I'm glad somebody is bold enough to act and do the dirty work, ( US in this case ) what people ( also in this forum ) secretly think.

[Eki]

Having read what finnish media had to tell about this story, I see lots of similarities how Somalian people act here as refugees. I have had male Somalian customers claimed to be fifteen to seventeen and I could swear they were over their twenties. I have come across shoplifters who only stole because they needed food. Well, I guess they eat IPods and DVDs in Somalia :rolleyes: I also met a rapist who told it was ok because that's how they work dating in their home village.

Something fundamentally wrong must be there at the horn of Africa because everything they do, the rest of the world should understand.

How US acted by saving the captain and capturing that claimed to be a teenager pirate was IMO totally right. Somebody has to show them what will happen if they continue **** things up. That's the problem here in Finland. We treat people coming here like we're the guests. They tell us jump and we only ask how high.

That's why I'm glad somebody is bold enough to act and do the dirty work, ( US in this case ) what people ( also in this forum ) secretly think.
I thought there was something fundamentally wrong with everyone of your customers regardless of their nationality, even the Finnish ones (weren't you teaching dysfunctional kids or something).

Besides, it's probably easier to steal a small iPod and sell it to buy several kilograms of food than steal several kilograms of food straight away.

[Roamy]

maybe the pirates should have hijacked the illegal fishing boats.

[A.F.F.]

I thought there was something fundamentally wrong with everyone of your customers regardless of their nationality, even the Finnish ones (weren't you teaching dysfunctional kids or something)..

Yes, but this isn't about the Finnish customers. This was about the Somalians.




Besides, it's probably easier to steal a small iPod and sell it to buy several kilograms of food than steal several kilograms of food straight away.

The point was they didn't steal it for food. They don't face hunger here in Finland. They only use it as an excuse.

[Eki]

Yes, but this isn't about the Finnish customers. This was about the Somalians.




The point was they didn't steal it for food. They don't face hunger here in Finland. They only use it as an excuse.
They don't know people don't face hunger in Finland, that's why they think it's a valid excuse. Finnish kids know, so they have other excuses for their stealing.

[Easy Drifter]

1. The Somailis' can't fish anymore because the dumping of toxic waste has killed or made inedible the fish.
2. The Somalis' can't fish anymore because foreign fishermen are taking all the (polluted) fish.
Boy does that ever make a lot of sense.
About as much sense as Eki's last reason why Somalis in Finland steal I Pods.
We also have an inordinate number of Somalis involved in crime here.
By no means all just a fairly high percentage. Most are law abiding.

[A.F.F.]

They don't know people don't face hunger in Finland, that's why they think it's a valid excuse.

Oh yes they do know.

[Eki]

1. The Somailis' can't fish anymore because the dumping of toxic waste has killed or made inedible the fish.
2. The Somalis' can't fish anymore because foreign fishermen are taking all the (polluted) fish.
Boy does that ever make a lot of sense.

Two thousand miles of shore has room both for fish and toxic waste. A localized dumping of toxic waste doesn't kill all the fish from the whole coast but can be enough to give a rash to people in a nearby village and may even kill the fish from a radius of several miles.

As you can read in the article, both the uncontrolled fishing and dumping of toxic waste have been verified by the UN.

[Zico]

I empathise with some of your stances on certain issues Eki but this isnt one of them. I wonder what would be going through your head if you were that Captain, after telling the Somalies you were on their side and it having no effect.

Zero tolerance message delivered to those prepared to hold lives to ransom, good job, well done.

[markabilly]

Geeass folks, it is just this simple--
there are those who rule,
while the other just sit on their fat buttes and drool
so which be you?

[Eki]

Geeass folks, it is just this simple--
there are those who rule,
while the other just sit on their fat buttes and drool
so which be you?
Simple? Apparently not everyone can rule, at least not at the same time. That's why there are wars and other quarrels, because people fight who gets to rule. One of the greatest problems has been that the US always wants to be the sole ruler who doesn't take advice let alone orders from anyone.

[Eki]

I wonder what would be going through your head if you were that Captain,
What makes this Captain special and a "human interest story"? Could it be it's because he's an American? Currently the pirates have about 300 sailors as hostages. You don't see their names and faces in the headlines, do you.

[Easy Drifter]

No because they are hostages not rescued hostages.
I see in this case you back a controversial UN report. If I wanted to dump toxic waste I sure as heck would not do it anywhere near a coastline where I might be spotted even if that area is mostly wild. Logically dumping far out to sea would make far more sense.

[airshifter]

What makes this Captain special and a "human interest story"? Could it be it's because he's an American? Currently the pirates have about 300 sailors as hostages. You don't see their names and faces in the headlines, do you.

You don't see the fact that the US has contractors working on security published either. Maybe if every country took efforts to stop the situation, then the names of all the hostages would be more public. But, as usual, they don't do much of anything.

Much like yourself Eki, many countries would gladly print photos of US servicemen killed in Somalia. But, much like yourself, those same people would hate to admit it was something adding stability to the region.

[Eki]

No because they are hostages not rescued hostages.
I see in this case you back a controversial UN report. If I wanted to dump toxic waste I sure as heck would not do it anywhere near a coastline where I might be spotted even if that area is mostly wild. Logically dumping far out to sea would make far more sense.
It's not you dumping toxic waste, I hope, but somebody else. Maybe they want to save fuel and dump it as close as possible.

Similarly, if I were a captain of a ship, I wouldn't go near the Somali coastline. Logically you'd be safer from pirates far out to sea.

Things may not be as simple as they seem. An old Finnish saying goes "people on dry land sure are wise when there's an accident at sea" when somebody gives advice on things they don't fully know and understand, usually in hindsight too.

[Easy Drifter]

Most of the larger ships being attacked now are not anywhere near the coast. Note most, not all.

[chuck34]

What makes this Captain special and a "human interest story"? Could it be it's because he's an American? Currently the pirates have about 300 sailors as hostages. You don't see their names and faces in the headlines, do you.

Hey I would be glad to hear about all the other hostages out there. But they didn't do something noble like trade himself for his crew.

But you're right this guy is special to Americans because he is American. Just as a Finn would be special to you because he is a Finn, but maybe not quite as special to an American. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, good or bad, just human nature. We hold "our own" in a special place.