i recently completed a 36 hr 55 minute SOLO Cannonball Run NYC to LA

[johnny111]

hello forum my name is John Fourtounis and im 27 years old. Born and raised in NYC. This seems to be a good place to let other drivers know about something i did. At the bottom of this letter i have a few questions about a possible drive from NYC to the southern tip of South America. If you know anything about driving in Central or South America please tell me what you know. So, I drove alone nonstop from NYC to LA in 36 hrs 55 min using my 2004 Honda Civic. My car is not altered or upgraded in any way. I stopped for gas 10 times. There were no stops to rest or sleep at all. Aside from Cannonball Baker who drove in 1933 from NYC to LA in 53.5 hours i know of no other solo Cannonball Runs that have been done. Since he did it alone they have always been done with 2 drivers taking shifts of driving and resting/sleeping. The record for a 2 man team was set in 2006 by Alex Roy/David Maher in 31 hrs 4 min. They used a BMW M5 and had a bunch of advantages like radar scanners, jammers, extra gas tank in trunk connected to the main tank and a spotter plane to watch for cops. Let me explain some details of the drive but before i do i dont want anyone reading this to even think of attempting this without a 2nd driver. Ive been a NYC cab driver from the age of 20 for 7 years and i would routinely do 12-20 hour shifts on no sleep the night before. So i started the clock next to 250 Hudson St as i was entering the Holland Tunnel at 1:02 PM Saturday March 21 and i got to Santa Monica pier at 1:57 AM NYC time Monday morning. If i were to do it again i know i can get my time below 35 hours maybe even 34. I wasnt pushing the entire time, there were times where my focus drifted and i was letting myself get caught sub 70 mph in the right lane. The traffic through the holland tunnel took too long. If i had left earlier it wouldve taken 2-3 minutes instead of 10-15 minutes. I didnt wake up earlier because i wanted 7 hours of sleep before going. The only weather related delay was in Arizona where there was some really strong wind and sandstorms for about 1 hour. Overall speed of everyone including left lane dropped to 60 because of the low visibility and strong wind coming from the side. The sky was literally red and brown with sand. Also they were doing work on 1-40 and there was a couple of sections where there was only 1 lane open. This took about 30-45 minutes to get through at 50 mph. I slipped up in St Louis and got onto I55 instead of I44 and then had to take their belt 270 west to get back on I44. I also could have done my gas and piss stops a bit quicker, should have just taken a bottle. I was also pulled over once in Ohio which was my mistake. I was going too fast on a section where i had seen cops on past road trips. Thankfully he let me go with a warning and that only took 10 minutes to deal with. He actually gave me a note that said Traffic Safety Reminder. I also slowed down a few times to snap some quick photos. So putting all these delays together im pretty sure i can do it below 34 hours if im pushing just 5-10 mph more consistently. 2 months before this attempt i tried it and it took me 44 hrs 46 min. The reason it took so much longer that time is because i had to take a longer indirect route to get below the snow in the Northeast and when i got to New Mexico and saw that i had 8-10 hrs more to go i lost my mind and started driving back for 2 hours then just as i was going to stop in a hotel i felt so much regret that i kept going but this time through the more southern Route 60(not I40) through NM and AZ. I also once did a double Cannonball with a friend where we drove nonstop from NYC to San Francisco in about 42 hrs. We then slept for 6 hrs, drove around the city for 2 hrs and then did it again nonstop in 42 hrs to NYC. Ive applied to Guinness to consider this solo run for an official record but they wont do it because on their application page they state they do not allow records based on drives/races on public roads, for good reason too.
Anyway im probably done with these solo runs but now im looking for advice about a drive im thinking about this summer with a friend from NYC to the southern tip of Chile or Argentina. This is gonna be for fun, not a race. On Yahoo Maps it only gives directions up to Mexico City which is 2681 miles. Total drive to the South American southern tip looks like 150-170 hrs. Im concerned about the safety of driving a car with New York plates in all the countries along the way. Were probably gonna attract some attention from locals and probably the police who i dont trust here in the US, never mind in Central America. So im asking you forum people if you or anyone you know has driven in any of the countries along the route. Is there some things i need to know to be safe? Is a passport and drivers license all i would need or do i need some other type of documentation for each country? Is there a route you know of that i should stick to? Snow will probably be an issue way south since our summer is their winter. Were gonna use my 2004 Honda Civic so im not that concerned about being carjacked or robbed since its not an expensive car. If you have any advice you can give me please respond with it. I want to be safe about this and know what im getting into before we go. thanks

[Tazio]

Without amphetamines taken under a doctor’s supervision, I find this absurdly irresponsible!

[bowler]

It's a bit different driving through borders from one country to another.

I don't think it is possible to drive into South America without shipping your car from Panama.

Road quality is also very different.

170 hours drive time would be highly unlikely. Maybe Panama City in that time.

There are lots of people who have done this trip, and google will give you plenty.

37 hours is my longest drive, and I would never attempt it again.

[johnny111]

Without amphetamines taken under a doctor’s supervision, I find this absurdly irresponsible!

i did this with no drugs, just slowly sipping coffee with no sugar to keep the caffeine giving me energy at a steady pace rather than drinking the entire cup and getting a energy rush followed by an energy crash. Its only irresponsible if you cant handle it, at no time did i ever even come close to falling asleep or losing control.

[Alexamateo]

When I was in college, a friend of mine had married a girl from Belize, and they got the idea to drive from Mississippi to Belize. This would have been around 1991, so I am sure some things have changed. Road quality in North Mexico was ok, but was terrible the further south they got and they started suffering a tremendous number of flats. At the times the mechanics fixing their flats laughed at them for having tires with no innertubes. When they finally got to Belize, the border guards didn't want to let them in because they were certain they were going to sell the vehicle there, so a little cash incentive was necessary. The roads there were even worse and one 40 mile stretch took 4 hours. It was an adventure, but after that they flew.

My own experience driving to Mexico knows that countries are funny about bringing in foreign registered cars, usually because they don't want you selling them there without paying whatever taxes tariffs or import fees, so they try to make things difficult, not to mention the special insurance you have to buy. It's a lot of "i"'s to dot, and "t"'s to cross. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but whenever you think you know what it's going to cost you in fees to cross into all these countries, I'd be tempted to double it because you never know when some "official" is going to come and make trouble for you.

[Roamy]

If you are going to drive to the tip of South America the first thing you need to do is weld a statue of Jesus on the Cross on you dash - you will need it!!

[Daniel]

i did this with no drugs, just slowly sipping coffee with no sugar to keep the caffeine giving me energy at a steady pace rather than drinking the entire cup and getting a energy rush followed by an energy crash. Its only irresponsible if you cant handle it, at no time did i ever even come close to falling asleep or losing control.
You don't need to fall asleep or lose control to cause a death or serious injury while driving.

[johnny111]

You don't need to fall asleep or lose control to cause a death or serious injury while driving.

youre right and thats why im done with these races. My main concern has always been not to hurt anyone else on the road so i consider myself lucky that nothing bad has come of it. Thanks to the other posters for the advice, im gonna need to really research this South America drive before i do it. A Honda Civic is probably not going to make it so i gotta look into getting a tougher car/truck for this.

Hey bowler, where did you do that 37 hour drive to? Was it just you or did you have a 2nd driver?

[Zico]

I've always been one to advocate fast driving in properly organised competition events on closed roads where innocent bystanders/drivers dont have their lives put at risk unnecesarily.
I've driven some long-ish (for me) journeys on my own (7-800 miles) and found it a monotonous chore. If it were a non competative road trip I'd totally understand your reasons for doing it but I'd want to make it an adventure and share the experience with someone as well as for safetys sake.

I dont really get the whole Canonball run thing, public roads/highways in modern cars, high speeds and lazer camera evading devices/jammers to me seems a very dangerous and rebelious thing to do at the great risk of kissing your licence goodbye, not to mention the other hazards.

Although to be fair.. I dont think I'd say no to competing in the historic Mille Miglia... now that would be something! ;)

[Rollo]

So, I drove alone nonstop from NYC to LA in 36 hrs 55 min using my 2004 Honda Civic. My car is not altered or upgraded in any way. I stopped for gas 10 times.

I'm calling shenanigans on you. Shenanigans shenanigans shenanigans!

According to google maps, the most direct route is 2791 miles long. Or if you will at an average speed of 79mph. This of course assumes that you don't happen to run into traffic on I-15 or I-10 in LA, which experience tells me is absolutely impossible except maybe if you arrived at 3am in which case you must have left NYC at 5:05pm a day and a half before (because if took you 37 hours), which puts you bang in the middle of "rush hour".

You either hit mass traffic in either NYC or LA, so either way IT AINT HAPPENING.


Were gonna use my 2004 Honda Civic so im not that concerned about being carjacked or robbed since its not an expensive car. If you have any advice you can give me please respond with it. I want to be safe about this and know what im getting into before we go. thanks

It's a good thing that you're not concerned about being carjacked or robbed, as soon as you get into Mexico and into Tijuana, you won't be driving anything anymore unless you can bribe your way through the local constabulary and even then... er :s

[Firstgear]

Rollo, read his post again. I think you missed this part, about a third of the way down:

"So i started the clock next to 250 Hudson St as i was entering the Holland Tunnel at 1:02 PM Saturday March 21 and i got to Santa Monica pier at 1:57 AM NYC time Monday morning"

I assume Santa Monica Pier is in Santa Monica, not LA.

Expedia lists the route as 4495km 40hrs 9min

[Tazio]

I assume Santa Monica Pier is in Santa Monica, not LA.

FYI Although technically not part of the City, Santa Monica is surrounded on three sides by the City of LA,
and one side by the Pacific Ocean. Furthermore it is at the end (and slightly to the north) of I 10.
The route he took, I 10 goes almost directly through Downtown L.A. Santa Monica Pier is about 15 miles west of Downtown.
None of this is terribly important since he arrived at 2am, and traffic would be very light
atlthough California Highway Patrol activity relatively heavy!
If attemped during commuter traffic, that last 45 miles would have taken 3+ hours :eek:

[Firstgear]

Man do I feel dumb - being schooled on Geography by an American :p :

I've driven the coast from LA north a couple of times years ago, and I remember going through some "Santa's" so I assumed Santa Monica was probably a couple of hours north of LA. Guess I should've taken a closer look at the map when I got the distance & time from Expedia.

[Tazio]

Man do I feel dumb - being schooled on Geography by an American :p :


:mark:

[johnny111]

[quote="Rollo"]I'm calling shenanigans on you. Shenanigans shenanigans shenanigans!

According to google maps, the most direct route is 2791 miles long. Or if you will at an average speed of 79mph. This of course assumes that you don't happen to run into traffic on I-15 or I-10 in LA, which experience tells me is absolutely impossible except maybe if you arrived at 3am in which case you must have left NYC at 5:05pm a day and a half before (because if took you 37 hours), which puts you bang in the middle of "rush hour".

You either hit mass traffic in either NYC or LA, so either way IT AINT HAPPENING.

no shenanigans, i hit some sunday evening traffic on I15 before hooking up with I10 but traffic was moving at a steady 60-70 mph overall. I more than made up for that slowdown by doing over 110mph at many points in almost every state along the way. By the time i got to downtown LA on I10 there was basically no traffic around but i still kept my speed at only 5mph over the limit cause i saw a few cops and i did not want to be pulled over at that point. Didnt want to attract attention to any cops who would be very happy to pull over a speeding car with NY plates. Also by that point after being awake for so long and driving my eyes and face looked really weird and they probably would have thought there was something wrong with me. If they searched the car they would have found a few things that would have let them know what i was doing.

Tazio, i got there at 10:57 LA time, 1:57 NYC time.

[johnny111]

I'm calling shenanigans on you. Shenanigans shenanigans shenanigans!

According to google maps, the most direct route is 2791 miles long. Or if you will at an average speed of 79mph. This of course assumes that you don't happen to run into traffic on I-15 or I-10 in LA, which experience tells me is absolutely impossible except maybe if you arrived at 3am in which case you must have left NYC at 5:05pm a day and a half before (because if took you 37 hours), which puts you bang in the middle of "rush hour".

You either hit mass traffic in either NYC or LA, so either way IT AINT HAPPENING.

no shenanigans, i hit some sunday evening traffic on I15 before hooking up with I10 but traffic was moving at a steady 60-70 mph overall. I more than made up for that slowdown by doing over 110mph at many points in almost every state along the way. By the time i got to downtown LA on I10 there was basically no traffic around but i still kept my speed at only 5mph over the limit cause i saw a few cops and i did not want to be pulled over at that point. Didnt want to attract attention to any cops who would be very happy to pull over a speeding car with NY plates. Also by that point after being awake for so long and driving my eyes and face looked really weird and they probably would have thought there was something wrong with me. If they searched the car they would have found a few things that would have let them know what i was doing.

Tazio, i got there at 10:57 LA time, 1:57 NYC time.

[Magnus]

I guess you drove as you write in your first post...
:)

[Rollo]

I more than made up for that slowdown by doing over 110mph at many points in almost every state along the way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_speed_limits.svg

Considering that the general speed limits on expressways is 70mph or less (except for the mid-west states where it's 75mph and a few counties in Texas where it's 80mph), then openly admitting to doing 40mph over the limit can't be good can it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnYu9X6b0XE
If indeed this story isn't shenanigans, then it is by all accounts and on every count really quite bloody stupid. Regular cars not fitted with rollcages, being hit by some pratt doing 110mph, are going to be ripped apart like wet newspaper.


Its only irresponsible if you cant handle it
No, no and NO! As a motorist you have an explicit duty of care to abide by the road rules and towards other motorists; whether "you can handle it" or not is irrelevant.

Perhaps this is poignant?
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/court-upholds-street-racers-jail-term-20090415-a7az.html

[johnny111]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnYu9X6b0XE
If indeed this story isn't shenanigans, then it is by all accounts and on every count really quite bloody stupid. Regular cars not fitted with rollcages, being hit by some pratt doing 110mph, are going to be ripped apart like wet newspaper.

No, no and NO! As a motorist you have an explicit duty of care to abide by the road rules and towards other motorists; whether "you can handle it" or not is irrelevant.

Perhaps this is poignant?
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/court-upholds-street-racers-jail-term-20090415-a7az.html

im aware of microsleep, in 7 years of driving a NYC cab often on no sleep the night before i have never experienced it myself, but i am only 27 so maybe it will hit me when i get older. But anyway i dont plan on doing these solo drives again. Also how would i hit someone moving at 110mph when im on a highway where everyone else is also moving fast and there are no intersections? The entire drive was done on Interstate highway, not local routes. I DO NOT street race on local streets. I really dont street race period because i have seen in person what that leads to. On the solo run i only drove over 100mph in short bursts in the empty spaces between towns. The rest of the time i was only 5-10 mph above the local limit. Out west there are plenty of points where you are 20 miles or more to the nearest town and basically the only dangers of speeding over 100mph is to yourself if you lose control or blow a tire. Perhaps you should lecture all the rich morons with their supercars who STREET RACE on public roads in Gumball3000 every year. Read about this death caused by Rich Moron driving way too fast past an intersection, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumball_3000_2007_Accident_in_Macedonia
Either way i understand your concern and im done with this and would never encourage anyone to try this type of endurance race alone. If you are reading this, i know i sound like a hypocrite but DO NOT drive without sleep for more than 20 hrs, you have no idea what it feels like unless it was your job for 7 years. I would even say the safe limit for a regular driver is more like 12 to 15 hrs. Anything more and microsleep will take control of you and you wont even know it. You will die or KILL AN INNOCENT and you will regret that for the rest of your life.

[J4MIE]

So, nobody ever stops on motorways then?

Gee, sounds like a perfect country!

Idiot. Nothing more to add.

[johnny111]

So, nobody ever stops on motorways then?

Gee, sounds like a perfect country!

Idiot. Nothing more to add.

well if they stopped in a driving lane on an interstate highway with speed limits of 70 mph theyd be the idiots. Either way id see them stop and slow down. Is this hard to understand? I may be an idiot but this idiot was the fastest and safest NYC cab driver for the last 7 years where i drove an estimated 230,000 miles in that time. Aside from 2 bumper taps resulting in no damage of any kind i was never involved in any type of accident either in a cab or my own car. I can drive a car safer at high speeds, in heavy NYC traffic and all weather conditions for shifts of at least 12 hrs per day, 6 days a week, than most of the fools on the road with licenses going for drives to the local McDonalds. I can guarantee you ive seen every type of driving situation and potential accident waiting to happen. I feel more comfortable driving after being awake for 40 hrs than i do breathing. Something that cant be said for the "drivers" of the supercars in all those rally races like Gumball. But i guess theyre allowed to go 160mph on roads theyve never been on because their Lambo engine can do it and because they want to show off their latest toy.

[MrJan]

Got to say mate that it sounds like you d**k is bigger than mine and you're out there to tell everyone. I see that what you did is an acheivment but I think it's an extremely foolish one. Despite driving a cab you are still a 'regular driver', no one is special just because they stay up more often.

Regardless of what you might think your journey did put people at risk (are you really telling me that you can concentrate as well after 30 hours awake as you would after 2?) and all for the sake of your own bravado.

And I assume if no one stops on the highway that your country never experiences an accident resulting in a traffic jam, lucky people.

[J4MIE]

well if they stopped in a driving lane on an interstate highway with speed limits of 70 mph theyd be the idiots. Either way id see them stop and slow down. Is this hard to understand? I may be an idiot but this idiot was the fastest and safest NYC cab driver for the last 7 years where i drove an estimated 230,000 miles in that time. Aside from 2 bumper taps resulting in no damage of any kind i was never involved in any type of accident either in a cab or my own car. I can drive a car safer at high speeds, in heavy NYC traffic and all weather conditions for shifts of at least 12 hrs per day, 6 days a week, than most of the fools on the road with licenses going for drives to the local McDonalds. I can guarantee you ive seen every type of driving situation and potential accident waiting to happen. I feel more comfortable driving after being awake for 40 hrs than i do breathing. Something that cant be said for the "drivers" of the supercars in all those rally races like Gumball. But i guess theyre allowed to go 160mph on roads theyve never been on because their Lambo engine can do it and because they want to show off their latest toy.

You're either crazy, deluded or idiotic (probably all three).

I hope I never have to share a road with you. Although I do wish that everyone who was about to have an accident could tell and slow down and avoid it beforehand, that's quite a cool skill to have. Would save a heck of a lot hassle for everybody.

[Wade91]

congratulations on your trip across the country :D i wanna try that myself some day :p

[johnny111]

Got to say mate that it sounds like you d**k is bigger than mine and you're out there to tell everyone. I see that what you did is an acheivment but I think it's an extremely foolish one. Despite driving a cab you are still a 'regular driver', no one is special just because they stay up more often.

Regardless of what you might think your journey did put people at risk (are you really telling me that you can concentrate as well after 30 hours awake as you would after 2?) and all for the sake of your own bravado.

And I assume if no one stops on the highway that your country never experiences an accident resulting in a traffic jam, lucky people.

"Regular drivers" dont go 230k miles without an accident. If more people were able to observe what was going in the seconds before a potential accident like me then the road would be a safer place for all. Instead people would rather drive as fast as possible on crowded streets while they eat a burger with 1 hand and drink a milkshake with the other. I can concentrate as well after 30 hrs, but not 40, i shouldnt have said 40, that was a bit much even for me when i did this solo run the 1st time where it took me 44hrs 46min. I never need to experience that again. And yes i have not seen anyone ever go from 70mph to a quick full stop on a highway ever. Unless for some reason you crash into the back of an also moving truck and come to a dead stop in a driving lane i dont see how that would happen. If its engine trouble and they cant get to the shoulder then people usually put their blinkers on and come to a rolling slow stop. If they are slamming on the brakes at 70mph because of engine noise or a check engine light then theyre the ones causing the accident, like i said, fools with licenses.

Wade91, dont ever try this alone, if you want to try you take a 2nd driver who you trust with your life and who you know is a very safe driver. Dont just take any crazy friend who knows how to push a gas pedal down who will sacrifice safety to show off. You take shifts of driving and napping/resting but NEITHER of you must nap on the last 15 hours of the drive. You need to keep an eye on each other AT ALL TIMES on those last 15 hrs. I have only 1 friend who qualifies for that, the rest i do not trust for this. I am never doing a solo run like this again.

[J4MIE]

As I said - deluded :crazy:

[yodasarmpit]

So much self righteousness in this thread, I'll bet everyone decrying the OP have driven over the speed limit themselves more than once.

I do, however agree on driving that long without sleep is dangerous.

[MrJan]

So much self righteousness in this thread, I'll bet everyone decrying the OP have driven over the speed limit themselves more than once.

I do, however agree on driving that long without sleep is dangerous.

I don't have an issue about the speed (although I'm not sure about announcing it to a public forum), it's the lack of sleep that I feel is idiotic.

[Daniel]

I agree with Jan Yeo. Speeding is dangerous but driving without sleep is just reckless

[johnny111]

I agree with Jan Yeo. Speeding is dangerous but driving without sleep is just reckless

for the common driver who drives 1 hour a day its reckless. For NYC cab drivers and all the cab drivers in the world its how we live every day so that we can put food on the table. Cab driving aint a simple 9-5 job. When you got bills up to your neck and you barely have enough to pay your rent, you work a 20 hour shift until you cant take it anymore cause if you dont you are out on the street. Then you go home, take a shower, maybe sleep a couple of hours if you have time and do it again the next day and the next, for years. If you think its so reckless then i suggest none of you ever get in a cab again. Ive saved so many people's jobs by getting them to work on time in the morning quickly and safely. You want to complain about something? Complain about the fact that i would drive rich stock brokers from their very expensive upper east homes down to wall street and theyd give me a ty tip while they make millions all the while they complain to ME how tough their job is. Justice right?
Cabbies of the world unite and rise up!!!!!! im insane hehe

[Daniel]

for the common driver who drives 1 hour a day its reckless. For NYC cab drivers and all the cab drivers in the world its how we live every day so that we can put food on the table. Cab driving aint a simple 9-5 job. When you got bills up to your neck and you barely have enough to pay your rent, you work a 20 hour shift until you cant take it anymore cause if you dont you are out on the street. Then you go home, take a shower, maybe sleep a couple of hours if you have time and do it again the next day and the next, for years. If you think its so reckless then i suggest none of you ever get in a cab again. Ive saved so many people's jobs by getting them to work on time in the morning quickly and safely. You want to complain about something? Complain about the fact that i would drive rich stock brokers from their very expensive upper east homes down to wall street and theyd give me a ty tip while they make millions all the while they complain to ME how tough their job is. Justice right?
Cabbies of the world unite and rise up!!!!!! im insane hehe

I'm sorry but there is no excuse for driving for almost 37 hours without sleep.

[J4MIE]

If/when you have an accident and if you survive, you'd be locked up.

If being a NY cabbie is so stressful leading to lack of sleep/money, then I can't see why you wouldn't go and get another job :confused:

[Alexamateo]

FWIW, I drove 26 hours straight from Germantown, TN outside of Memphis to Chihuahua City, Mexico when I drove down for my wedding. That included an hour at the border to get a permiso to import my car. It's not so bad if you're well rested, although I can't imagine driving another 10 hours more. If your motivated, you can do it.

Funny thing though, the same trip back took three days. We went to Hawaii on the honeymoon, and left the car with all her stuff packed up in the El Paso airport. When we got back, we somehow couldn't drive more than a few hours without having to stop ;) :D :)

One final note, it is true that there are stretches of highway in the Western US where there is nothing. One of those places is I-10 in West Texas, and I mean there is nothing for miles. I told my wife on the way back that I was going to open it up and see how fast my car would do in one of those stretches. Guess what happened next! Yep, I got pulled over :dozey: Fortunately, the patrolman had mercy on us and let us off with a warning. :p :

[johnny111]

If/when you have an accident and if you survive, you'd be locked up.

If being a NY cabbie is so stressful leading to lack of sleep/money, then I can't see why you wouldn't go and get another job :confused:

Im not driving cab as much anymore. Im slowly getting out of it cause i found a better way to make more money with less stress. I did it for years basically because i love driving and it was a very interesting and exciting job. I met people from nearly every country on earth and had some pretty disturbing and weird experiences. I graduated college with a degree in political science and could have easily taken some boring office job that paid more with benefits but i just was not meant to sit in front of a computer screen doing paperwork.

Alexamateo, how much did this permiso cost you? On my last 2 solo cannonballs i also couldnt do the drive back nonstop, i just didnt have the motivation to so i took it slow driving 10-15 hrs at a time only during daylight so i could actually see the beauty of this country. Eventually i hope to completely fill in my road atlas with friends on road trips. I mean i want to drive on every inch of interstate and local routes through every state, Canada, Mexico and as far south as i can go safely. Then i want to drive from Portugal through Europe and end up on China's coast. Then do a lap of Australia. Why fly from point A to point B when you can drive and see everything in between? The stuff in between is as important as the big cities.

[Alexamateo]

http://www.mexonline.com/drivemex.htm

Right now, it's $27 if you pay by credit card, it purchases bond insurance to assure you're not illegally importing your car and is good for 180 days. If not returned, they'll charge $400 to your card. If you don't have a credit card, you have to post the entire $400 bond which you'll get back (less $27) when you go back to the US. You'll also need to buy temporary insurance from a Mexican insurance company. It's easy (do it online or by phone before you go), and there's lots of competition so prices are reasonable.

You only need to do this if you travel more than 20-30 kilometers to the interior. You can drive in the border towns all you want and you are covered by your regular American insurance.

Also, if you do cross at a major city like El Paso-Juarez, you do all this at the 30 kilometer station. If you're at a minor crossing like Presidio-Ojinaga, you'll do this at the border itself. (I learned that one the hard way, :p : I got turned around and had to drive all the way back to the border.)

Good luck and have fun!

[Magnus]

johnny111; you should really do something about that selfesteem of yours...

A few years ago I worked as a cab-driver at night, and had my other work during daylight hours. I fell asleep twice by the wheel, but just managed to avoid wrecking the car. Around that time I also went on a very stupid tour from Malaga, to Gothenbourg, up to Sunna, and back to northern France, and then back to Gothenburg again, for some stupid reason (helping my parents)
I did abt 8000 kms on one week. Nothing but stupid stupid stupid.
When I got involved in rallying, and had a license, i calmed down a lot. First of all: I understood that I was not as cool as I thought, and that my skills were nothing but a laughing matter in comparison to the big guys, who had years and years of practice of how to REALLY drive a car.

Since then I have regarded myself as an average driver; and have never had even an incident when driving a car(from forteen years of driving). I do not know why, maybe it is because I am expecting to make a mess out of things, and thus take some precautionary actions.

I do not know how old you are Johnny111, but I asure you the day will come when you look back upon your achievement with disbelief; not because you were doing something impressive, but because you were behaving so very much like any other youngster, just being utterly selfconcious and filled with selfesteem. Last, i can bring you comfort though: time will cure these conditions aswell :)
Good luck!

[Dave B]

...by doing over 110mph at many points in almost every state along the way...

Also by that point after being awake for so long and driving my eyes and face looked really weird and they probably would have thought there was something wrong with me.

Speeding while tired. You, sir, are a dickhead.

[Wade91]

theres nothing wrong with what Johnny did, he has made a great accomplishment! :D

[Magnus]

theres nothing wrong with what Johnny did, he has made a great accomplishment! :D

You are absolutely right! But not in the field you think ;)

[johnny111]

Speeding while tired. You, sir, are a dickhead.

i wasnt tired at all on this last solo run. Its just that when you spend 36 hrs constantly focusing on the road and always scanning for the police your eyes and face begin to look tired and weird. I didnt have anything like a police radar scanner so i had to visually look for cops at every turn. If you saw in my 1st post i already did this before and drove for 44hrs 46 min. Yes on that drive i was tired by the end but i still was never at risk of falling asleep. If i was i would have stopped immediately. I never wanted to risk hurting anyone else for my goal. On this 36 hr run i was NOT TIRED AT ALL. Either way everyone can stop worrying because i am not doing it again.

Magnus my fellow cab driving brother, my self esteem is fine. If i needed self esteem boosting id buy a really expensive and fast car to show off but instead im perfectly happy driving a 2004 Honda Civic. Im 27 and i thought that this would be the time to do this when im still young and strong. Sorry but i will never look back and think it was a stupid thing because ive done it twice now and nothing bad happened. I laugh at the Le Mans guys who think what they do is impressive for 24hrs on a track and they have partners who switch shifts, wow big deal.

Alexmateo, thanks alot for the info. Definitely good to know before i cross the border. I gotta check if im going to need permisos for every central and south american country. That could get pretty expensive!

[MrJan]

I laugh at the Le Mans guys who think what they do is impressive for 24hrs on a track and they have partners who switch shifts, wow big deal.

:laugh: I'm guessing that those are the words of a man who has never driven competitively. The concentration required in one 3 hour stint at Le Mans is more than you would have needed across the whole of your drive. The bumps and undulations in the road would probably be barely noticeable to your comfy family car but in a stiffened race car they can throw the thing all over the place. If you could do 1 lap of Le Mans in a proper prototype and get within 5 minutes of a decent lap time then I would be fairly impressed, let alone do a proper session and not feel drained.

[johnny111]

:laugh: I'm guessing that those are the words of a man who has never driven competitively. The concentration required in one 3 hour stint at Le Mans is more than you would have needed across the whole of your drive. The bumps and undulations in the road would probably be barely noticeable to your comfy family car but in a stiffened race car they can throw the thing all over the place. If you could do 1 lap of Le Mans in a proper prototype and get within 5 minutes of a decent lap time then I would be fairly impressed, let alone do a proper session and not feel drained.

im talking about the endurance aspect of the race not the skill required to control a supercar at high speed. That is indeed a skill that those racers have been training in for years and they are great at what they do. My 2004 Honda Civic is not a comfy family car. Its a lightweight car with pretty bad suspension that pops up and down over even small potholes. You need to be in control of it at all times otherwise it will go all over the road.

[MrJan]

im talking about the endurance aspect of the race not the skill required to control a supercar at high speed. That is indeed a skill that those racers have been training in for years and they are great at what they do. My 2004 Honda Civic is not a comfy family car. Its a lightweight car with pretty bad suspension that pops up and down over even small potholes. You need to be in control of it at all times otherwise it will go all over the road.

But you can't laugh at Le Mans drivers when the endurance aspect of what they do is completely different to what you did. It's sort of like chucking a football around with your mates for an afternoon and then claiming that the NFL blokes are wimps.

Sorry about the Civic, I assumed that it was on stock suspension :)

[johnny111]

But you can't laugh at Le Mans drivers when the endurance aspect of what they do is completely different to what you did. It's sort of like chucking a football around with your mates for an afternoon and then claiming that the NFL blokes are wimps.

Sorry about the Civic, I assumed that it was on stock suspension :)

youre right, they are 2 different types of endurance races. And my car is on stock suspension but after 2 solo cannonballs and 1 roundtrip cannonball with my friend in the last year the suspension has become pretty weak. I really need to change the shocks and check the suspension for cracks.

[J4MIE]

*slaps forehead with hand* :crazy:

[Easy Drifter]

I have stayed out of this until now. I have never done a run like that but I have driven acroos country from Vancouver to Ottawa in 2 1/2 days hauling race cars. That was a killer. I have raced in endurance races and you can be wiped after even a 2 hr. stint. But you recover fairly quickly the fist couple of stints.
Long distance hauls are another story. I did many of them hauling a race car, or two, and it is not fun. There were times when I should have stopped but thought only x miles to go. Usually there was another driver but they were as tired as I was. Of course this was usually after a weekend at the track, sometimes with little sleep and always lots of tension.
I do not know how the WOO teams do it. That schedule has to be a killer.
Now as to some one just stopping on a highway. It does happen. I had it happen today. A 2 lane main highway and I was about 5 cars back. We were doing about 100 k or a little less. Speed limit was 80k. This person just put on the brakes and came to a complete stop right on the highway! No turns right there, no laneways, just a highway. Every one got stopped safely and pulled out around him eventually and he then pulled onto the shoulder. Who knows?
I turned a couple of hundred yards down the highway and stopped on the side road. He then just pulled back out and carried on. No signals at any time.
It was lucky everyone was leaving decent gaps and were alert. There was absolutely no reason for him to stop, no animals or anything.

[johnny111]

Easy Drifter, sure stops like that can happen and so i always leave plenty of room between me and the car in front and i always make safe passes, no need to rush a pass. This is driving school 101. People are acting as if im doing 100 mph on a crowded inner city highway. Here in NYC at night there have been many times where ive seen 2 cars racing each other over 80 mph on inner city highways and theyre weaving in and out of traffic recklessly missing other cars by a couple feet of space. I hate seeing that. Its the middle of nowhere people! You ever been to New Mexico, Nevada or Arizona? There are places out there where ive driven for about 40 miles without seeing another car at night.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Well, As the one member of this board that drives LONG distances for a living, let me first say Johnny, if you were going to do this, you should have gotten documentation and proof with some sort of authority. Car and Driver has always done articles on long distance driving and while they would never officially sanction what you have claimed ( and I am not saying you didn't), they would give you some advice on how you should have documented it.

Second. I find it ironic that the UK chapter of the forum has just stomped all over this trip. Most of the Americans and Canadians have not condemened it. I think it is because anyone who has driven on this continent on a regular basis has driven long distances without sleep more than once. Not bright to be sure, but it is done, sometimes for very good reasons.

I drive no more than 11 hours a day. That is BY LAW. My log has to reflect it, and I hold myself to that. That said, there has been days I know i could have driven another 6 or 7 hours. Also tho, I am going to point out the rig doesn't have to stop for fuel more than once every other day, so I make time there. I also have an air ride chassis and air ride seat to soak up just about all the bumps that make a car ride over 3 hours so LONG.

Now I am 43. I wouldn't have dreamed of doing what you did Johnny. When I was 27 I would have thought it doable tho.

I wouldn't recommend it and I wouldn't really say I want to be on the road when you DID it,( Maybe I was? but I think because of your cabbie background you of all people probably knew the pitfalls of what you were attempting and the implications if you screwed up.

You shouldn't have done it, you admit to THAT, and you shouldn't really take that Civic out on such a trip again from the sounds of it ( Good car but you should be a little more paranoid about your car's condition for any long trip.).

As for your way of drinking coffee, that is the way to do it I suppose, just I never can lay off some sugar and drinking it!!

I am glad you made it, don't do it again, and if you do any more record breaking, at least get concrete PROOF so no one can doubt what you did.

Also, take a course in racing driving at some point. When you hang around those guys (don't mention this little trip, they will frown on it) who teach race driving and car control for a living, you might understand why some of the Brit's are so critical. What you did is just not part of the credo of a racing driver. That said, I recommend you guys read Brock Yate's book "Sunday Driver" where part of the book chronicles one of the first "Cannonball" Runs where Dan Gurney decided to flaunt authority ( It was 1971 when authority flaunting was a hobby for even Republicans like Yates ) and joined Brock in a Ferrari Daytona. They ran the distance I believe in 36 hours but I have to find the book to be sure. They ran mainly on the speedlimit but Gurney did let the 12 cylinders romp in Arizona a few times and blasted down I-80 (just 3 hours out of NYC) at about 150 mph at 3am. What killed them was Brock wasn't Dan and had to slow down a bit in pace, and the gas mileage and range on that big Ferrari had them filling up...a LOT.

[johnny111]

hey Mark my truck driving cousin. Ive always respected the truckers as a cabbie. You guys do one of the toughest jobs in the world and you do something very important, you bring things to where they need to go. If all the truckers went on strike this entire country would SHUT DOWN. After i did my 1st solo run i emailed a bunch of car magazines including Car and Driver about the details of the ride but they never responded. The Guinness world record people also never approved of my solo runs for an official record because they state on the 1st page of the application that they dont sign off on long distance races/drives on public roads because of the danger to other drivers. Even so i wanted to go again for myself to see my best possible time. This really was all just for myself, just to see if i could do alone what 2 guys did as a team. Even the Cannonball record holders, Roy/Maher applied to Guinness and a bunch of media people to document it but they were denied as well. I always take care of my car and ive maintained it well after each run ive done but on this last one i came back through upstate NY on I-86 which is basically 1 giant pothole for a good 10 mile section and it did some damage to my shocks and 1 of the bearings. Advice for truckers and any drivers, stay the hell off I-86 in upstate NY. One of the worst maintained interstates i have ever seen and its in my own state, and ive been to 36 states! Those Brock Yates books are great to read about the races that went on back then, a whole different era of driving, ill definitely read that one soon. Stay away from that sugar. All it does is give you energy spikes and crashes and then 20 years later diabetes. Keep on truckin!!

[Magnus]

Second. I find it ironic that the UK chapter of the forum has just stomped all over this trip. Most of the Americans and Canadians have not condemened it. I think it is because anyone who has driven on this continent on a regular basis has driven long distances without sleep more than once. Not bright to be sure, but it is done, sometimes for very good reasons.
It could be that english forummembers have another pow regarding long distances, then others, even tough i do not think so.
Since most of the countries in europe are part of the EU, and we have a long tradition of travelling across the continent by car (Ive gone to Malaga 3500 kms abt 10 times, back and forth) I belive there is no greater differnce as to how we look at far distances. Especially taking into account the very nice highways we find in large parts of Europe. The northern parts of Europe aree also rather unpopulated, and it is common to have to go very far, just in order to get to your work, or school, or whatever.

Well well, I do not know why I even bothered about writing, but it reminds me of my excellent thread about how big the world is :D

[Mark in Oshawa]

hey Mark my truck driving cousin. Ive always respected the truckers as a cabbie. You guys do one of the toughest jobs in the world and you do something very important, you bring things to where they need to go. If all the truckers went on strike this entire country would SHUT DOWN. After i did my 1st solo run i emailed a bunch of car magazines including Car and Driver about the details of the ride but they never responded. The Guinness world record people also never approved of my solo runs for an official record because they state on the 1st page of the application that they dont sign off on long distance races/drives on public roads because of the danger to other drivers. Even so i wanted to go again for myself to see my best possible time. This really was all just for myself, just to see if i could do alone what 2 guys did as a team. Even the Cannonball record holders, Roy/Maher applied to Guinness and a bunch of media people to document it but they were denied as well. I always take care of my car and ive maintained it well after each run ive done but on this last one i came back through upstate NY on I-86 which is basically 1 giant pothole for a good 10 mile section and it did some damage to my shocks and 1 of the bearings. Advice for truckers and any drivers, stay the hell off I-86 in upstate NY. One of the worst maintained interstates i have ever seen and its in my own state, and ive been to 36 states! Those Brock Yates books are great to read about the races that went on back then, a whole different era of driving, ill definitely read that one soon. Stay away from that sugar. All it does is give you energy spikes and crashes and then 20 years later diabetes. Keep on truckin!!

I86 is bad and that is uncharacteristic of NY State, but again, that just tells you all you need to know how Albany cares about what happens Upstate right?

AS for you not getting the documentation and why Guinness wont sanction it, I think you have your answer on why the guys were so hard on you.

Like I said, don't do it again, and you learned from it.

As for us recirprocating your love to you cabbies...well must truckers are aggravated by Cabbies...since most drive WAY too aggressive for our liking!!

Just the same, in NYC they do an important job.

as for your desire to drive the length of the America's, it has been done, usually by Land Rover's although a Canadian team did it in a Volvo wagon once...and then took that car around the world. The red tape and permits required would stun a buffalo. If you take on the challenge of driving to the southern most part of Argentina and Chile, good luck...but do your research and don't just "do" it like you did your trans America dash. That was a little dumb I think. I am chuckling tho at the audacity of it. Just a damned good thing you didn't kill anyone .

[Mark in Oshawa]

It could be that english forummembers have another pow regarding long distances, then others, even tough i do not think so.
Since most of the countries in europe are part of the EU, and we have a long tradition of travelling across the continent by car (Ive gone to Malaga 3500 kms abt 10 times, back and forth) I belive there is no greater differnce as to how we look at far distances. Especially taking into account the very nice highways we find in large parts of Europe. The northern parts of Europe aree also rather unpopulated, and it is common to have to go very far, just in order to get to your work, or school, or whatever.

Well well, I do not know why I even bothered about writing, but it reminds me of my excellent thread about how big the world is :D

How far by car is Malaga one way? 1700 km? Two days drive not even. (Not to diminish that but that is about your longest trip from Sweden I would think?)

I just finished a 5 day run. Left Tuesday from Pickering ( east of Toronto ), arrived in Jacksonville Fla Wednesday night. Unloaded Thursday AM, sat til supper awaiting a load, went to the Myrtle Beach SC area, picked up two shipments in that area Friday morning, then up through NASCAR country to the Greensboro NC area for the rest of the trailer to be filled and then up to Fort Chiswell VA for the night. Then all the way home by 8pm. All legally done, and that is a medium length trip, 4500 km round trip and I spent the better part of one day waiting before driving on Thursday. The distances us North Americans are used to is maybe the reason we looked at Johnny's little adventure a bit differently.

It is the reason we fly more often and the train services in NA have been pretty much given up on. My trip to Florida was not a long one at all really....a trip to the west coast would be a much longer odysseey...which sort of brings into focus how dumb John's trip was, and yet how remarkable it is. I cant approve of what he did, but I have to admit, he did something pretty remarkable. I know I wouldn't do it....

[Mark in Oshawa]

Actually....Johnny in a sense cheated. NYC is about 500 WEST of the easternmost part of Maine. Heck....you want a long trip John, travel from St. John's Newfoundland to Victoria BC. Drive only in Canada. You will be sleeping my friend...... Heck, it is 24 hours just to cross Ontario!

[Gunman]

No GPS data to backup the claim? it's going to be a hard sell.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Gunman...that was my thinking...but you read his description...I kind of believe him, as dumb as he was for doing it.

[Rollo]

Second. I find it ironic that the UK chapter of the forum has just stomped all over this trip. Most of the Americans and Canadians have not condemened it. I think it is because anyone who has driven on this continent on a regular basis has driven long distances without sleep more than once. Not bright to be sure, but it is done, sometimes for very good reasons.

I should point out that I happen to live in the world's biggest gaol, that prison island hidden in the summer for a million years, that Great Southern Land (boop boop), Australia. This is a land where distances are measured in days, not miles.

Doing things for endurance reasons is one thing, but doing things without regard for the public is quite another, whom I should point out have also paid for the roads via their taxes. Being a motorist may endow you with certain rights, but this does not in any way shape or form negate the responsibility you have to other road users.

[johnny111]

As for us recirprocating your love to you cabbies...well must truckers are aggravated by Cabbies...since most drive WAY too aggressive for our liking!!

Just the same, in NYC they do an important job.

as for your desire to drive the length of the America's, it has been done, usually by Land Rover's although a Canadian team did it in a Volvo wagon once...and then took that car around the world. The red tape and permits required would stun a buffalo. If you take on the challenge of driving to the southern most part of Argentina and Chile, good luck...but do your research and don't just "do" it like you did your trans America dash. That was a little dumb I think. I am chuckling tho at the audacity of it. Just a damned good thing you didn't kill anyone .

yeah the bus drivers here in NYC hate us too, they love cutting us off but i always try to give them room to move. Driving a bus or truck on NYC city streets is really tough and i would not want to do it. Im researching this south america drive and yeah it looks like its gonna be a ton of permits to deal with.

Gunman, i really did do it. I dont have a gps and all i use is a 2009 road atlas. Who exactly would i submit this gps data to? Even that can be faked unless some officials were watching the drive and tracking me in real time which i would have been perfectly happy to have been tracked. And realize that this 36h55min run was my 2nd solo run after my 1st attempt which lasted 44h46min. I know it sounds ridiculous but this last solo run was very easy compared to the 1st. Im talking so easy that the only preparation i did was sleep 7 hours the night before and i brought some sandwiches and fruits in a cooler so i wouldnt have to eat drive thru crap on the road. At no time was i at risk of falling asleep or having an accident. Id have to be a total loser to come and post this on a board ive never posted on if it wasnt true. What am i getting out of lying about it on this board? Believe me that i tried to get it documented by a few "officials" but no one wanted anything to do with it. By posting here all i wanted to do was let people know that this simple cab driver did it and that i existed and that it was done in a cheap 2004 Honda Civic. I dont need a Lambo or any other supercar. My car doesnt even have power windows. I have crank windows. My particular 2004 model is designated VP, meaning Value Package!

[Magnus]

How far by car is Malaga one way? 1700 km? Two days drive not even. (Not to diminish that but that is about your longest trip from Sweden I would think?)

I just finished a 5 day run. Left Tuesday from Pickering ( east of Toronto ), arrived in Jacksonville Fla Wednesday night. Unloaded Thursday AM, sat til supper awaiting a load, went to the Myrtle Beach SC area, picked up two shipments in that area Friday morning, then up through NASCAR country to the Greensboro NC area for the rest of the trailer to be filled and then up to Fort Chiswell VA for the night. Then all the way home by 8pm. All legally done, and that is a medium length trip, 4500 km round trip and I spent the better part of one day waiting before driving on Thursday. The distances us North Americans are used to is maybe the reason we looked at Johnny's little adventure a bit differently.

It is the reason we fly more often and the train services in NA have been pretty much given up on. My trip to Florida was not a long one at all really....a trip to the west coast would be a much longer odysseey...which sort of brings into focus how dumb John's trip was, and yet how remarkable it is. I cant approve of what he did, but I have to admit, he did something pretty remarkable. I know I wouldn't do it....

from where I live it is abt 3600 kms. From Kiel, in the norhern part of Germany (a country in Europe ;) ) it is exactly 3000 kms.

As i said before: well well...

I could also point out that I with my parents some years ago hired a camper in LA, and then went to Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, Chicago, into Canada, then to connecicut, down to NY, Washington, down to Florida (Key West) Up on the west coast of Florida, Louisian, New Orleans, Arizona, back to Las vegas, over to San Fransisco. It was a vacation though, and done from the end of november til the fifth of January. (on another occassion we went by hired car from NY to FL)

I might ad, Off Topic, that we after this went to hawaii, and Fiji. from fiji we went to tonga, where we stayed for abt two month. we then went to sydney, where we once again rented a camper, which we took down to Canberra, and the up to brisbane, during three weeks.

Finally we went to Singapore, from where we took the train to Bangkok. Then we gave up and flew home...

[leopard]

Bangkok is not recommended temporarily, the anti-Thaksin Shinawatra thinkmaster nearly got killed last week with a hundred buckshot on the car. You'd better go home directly ...

[Bob Riebe]

hey Mark my truck driving cousin. Ive always respected the truckers as a cabbie. You guys do one of the toughest jobs in the world and you do something very important, you bring things to where they need to go. If all the truckers went on strike this entire country would SHUT DOWN. After i did my 1st solo run i emailed a bunch of car magazines including Car and Driver about the details of the ride but they never responded. The Guinness world record people also never approved of my solo runs for an official record because they state on the 1st page of the application that they dont sign off on long distance races/drives on public roads because of the danger to other drivers. Even so i wanted to go again for myself to see my best possible time. This really was all just for myself, just to see if i could do alone what 2 guys did as a team. Even the Cannonball record holders, Roy/Maher applied to Guinness and a bunch of media people to document it but they were denied as well. I always take care of my car and ive maintained it well after each run ive done but on this last one i came back through upstate NY on I-86 which is basically 1 giant pothole for a good 10 mile section and it did some damage to my shocks and 1 of the bearings. Advice for truckers and any drivers, stay the hell off I-86 in upstate NY. One of the worst maintained interstates i have ever seen and its in my own state, and ive been to 36 states! Those Brock Yates books are great to read about the races that went on back then, a whole different era of driving, ill definitely read that one soon. Stay away from that sugar. All it does is give you energy spikes and crashes and then 20 years later diabetes. Keep on truckin!!
Johnny:
If you did this, and I am giving you credit for having done so, good for you.

If you really want to travel the length of of South/Central America, the drug running and socialist countries Could/ might be a real werious problem.
If you have a firearm you could end up in prison for the rest of your life; if you have one and end up facing threat, you must use it- that is not something just thinking about will make go away.
A gent who rode a motorcycle down to Tierra del Fuego, was stopped and held for ransome by drug runners, he went through months of hell, including forced marches carry what ever he was told to carry, and got out by the Grace of God.
It is a whole different world down there and worse now than it was a decade ago.

[johnny111]

Johnny:
If you did this, and I am giving you credit for having done so, good for you.

If you really want to travel the length of of South/Central America, the drug running and socialist countries Could/ might be a real werious problem.
If you have a firearm you could end up in prison for the rest of your life; if you have one and end up facing threat, you must use it- that is not something just thinking about will make go away.
A gent who rode a motorcycle down to Tierra del Fuego, was stopped and held for ransome by drug runners, he went through months of hell, including forced marches carry what ever he was told to carry, and got out by the Grace of God.
It is a whole different world down there and worse now than it was a decade ago.

yeah ive been reading up on it and it could be a bit dangerous. I would just have to have the bad luck to come across 1 really bad situation and id be in trouble. The odds of someone giving me trouble seem pretty high if im driving around in a car with New York plates. I wouldnt want to take a gun down there though. I dont like guns and if i were caught with it by the police during a search i would have really big problems.

[BeansBeansBeans]

As someone who can barely operate on less than 8 hours sleep a night I salute your impressive feat :up:

[Mark in Oshawa]

I was thinking as I was out on the road for a run this week. You guys are condemning Johnny, but ask yourselves this: Doctors when working as interns are routinely asked to stay awake 36 hours at a time and they are practicing medicine ON LIVE FREAKING PATIENTS! No one questions it......so while I wont totally condone John, I wont condemn him when you think about all those tired dopey doctors working like wage slaves before they get full practices.

[Magnus]

I was thinking as I was out on the road for a run this week. You guys are condemning Johnny, but ask yourselves this: Doctors when working as interns are routinely asked to stay awake 36 hours at a time and they are practicing medicine ON LIVE FREAKING PATIENTS! No one questions it......so while I wont totally condone John, I wont condemn him when you think about all those tired dopey doctors working like wage slaves before they get full practices.

That is a good point! The problem withh Johns achievement is that it also included some reckless driving, in a not so good car...

[Ranger]

I was thinking as I was out on the road for a run this week. You guys are condemning Johnny, but ask yourselves this: Doctors when working as interns are routinely asked to stay awake 36 hours at a time and they are practicing medicine ON LIVE FREAKING PATIENTS! No one questions it......so while I wont totally condone John, I wont condemn him when you think about all those tired dopey doctors working like wage slaves before they get full practices.

Stupid analogy.

Driving for 37 hours straight has ZERO potential to save lives or do anything beneficial to anyone, much unlike surgery for the same amount of time.

[Bob Riebe]

Stupid analogy.

Driving for 37 hours straight has ZERO potential to save lives or do anything beneficial to anyone, much unlike surgery for the same amount of time.
Very good analogy especially considering the not infrequent doctors who cut off the wrong limb or perform the surgery on the wrong patient.

The problem with some of the posts is the extreme level of self-righteous narcissism that is floating around some of them.

[johnny111]

Stupid analogy.

Driving for 37 hours straight has ZERO potential to save lives or do anything beneficial to anyone, much unlike surgery for the same amount of time.

most of what we do as humans on a daily basis also doesnt have the potential to save lives or benefit anyone else but we still do them because we have hobbies. Driving is my hobby and ive never hurt anyone. Magnus my car is fine. Someone called my car a comfy family car and i just wanted to explain that a Civic is not a heavier sedan like a Toyota Camry that has much better suspension and rides smooth over most potholes. A Civic is much lighter and pops up and down over most potholes so you really need to have alot more control over it.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Stupid analogy.

Driving for 37 hours straight has ZERO potential to save lives or do anything beneficial to anyone, much unlike surgery for the same amount of time.

No..it isn't a stupid analogy. It isn't right to expect a doctor to make life and death decisions over people on next to no sleep for a 48 hour period, much less one that isn't a full MD with his/her own practice.

What John did wasn't advisable, never said it was, but spare me the vicious indignation and saying the doctors have every right to be walking zombies when they prescribe drugs to someone who might be allergic to them, or order a treatment based on a mis-diagnosis that may be caught if he wasn't tired?

THAT was my point. And you walked RIGHT into it. You cant defend the doctors because you think that them being walking zombies is noble, then knock this guy for driving across the country. Either both are wrong, or both are right. You make up your mind which you believe.....The only difference is that the motives of the Doctor might be to save a life, while John was just pushing himself. I can agree that serves no purpose, but as I said.... why have doctors trying to make life and death decisions on no sleep. THAT is just as stupid if not more so, and what is more, probably has done more harm than people driving long distances on no sleep. Think about that one....

[Ranger]

No..it isn't a stupid analogy. It isn't right to expect a doctor to make life and death decisions over people on next to no sleep for a 48 hour period, much less one that isn't a full MD with his/her own practice.

What John did wasn't advisable, never said it was, but spare me the vicious indignation and saying the doctors have every right to be walking zombies when they prescribe drugs to someone who might be allergic to them, or order a treatment based on a mis-diagnosis that may be caught if he wasn't tired?
I already did think about it before my first post in this thread, and yes, I am condemning John for being stupid.

I say the comparison is stupid because, for the most part, 37 hour surgical operations are a necessity.

They are performed by the same group of qualified professionals because there are simply not enough of them to go around. Simply not enough, regardless of whether the respective healthcare systems lack adequate infrastructure or not. If there were enough to go around, THEN you can criticise doctors for working excessive hours.

There is no doubt that no human can function properly after 37 hours straight of being awake.

But this is where you brought doctors into the argument. You are comparing them to someone who drove 37 hours straight in something that has every capacity to kill someone, for no other purpose than self enjoyment. I hope he enjoyed it. But it was still hugely irresponsible and dare I say, stupid.


THAT was my point. And you walked RIGHT into it. You cant defend the doctors because you think that them being walking zombies is noble, then knock this guy for driving across the country. Either both are wrong, or both are right. You make up your mind which you believe.....The only difference is that the motives of the Doctor might be to save a life, while John was just pushing himself. I can agree that serves no purpose, but as I said.... why have doctors trying to make life and death decisions on no sleep. THAT is just as stupid if not more so, and what is more, probably has done more harm than people driving long distances on no sleep. Think about that one....
That 'only difference' is monumental.

37 hours of aiding and perhaps saving the life of a complete stranger (which could be you), or 37 hours of self-indulgence which is dangerous and only has the potential to kill someone (which could be you).

Put it this way, would you refuse or question 37 hours of surgery if it meant possibly saving your life?

That's what it comes down to.


most of what we do as humans on a daily basis also doesnt have the potential to save lives or benefit anyone else but we still do them because we have hobbies. Driving is my hobby and ive never hurt anyone.
I disagree with irresponsibility on public roads.

I don't disagree with you enjoying yourself, but driving for 37 hours straight is irresponsible.

Just my opinion, of course.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Maillen...I am not talking about surgical teams. I am talking about the practice many medical schools have had of putting doctors that are in their last year in intern positions in teaching hospitals, which when you get down to it, are just hospitals as far as the public is concerned. They are forced to be "on call" on emergency wards or other wards, and they often work the whole weekend with as little as a few hours sleep. They often are "on call" for hundreds of hours a week. This practice is a rite of passage in the medical community. They figure if the doc's can cope with this, then they truly know their jobs and profession by instinct and knowledge. You cant fake being a doctor when you have been up 36 hours and a kid comes into the emergency ward with some unknown malady and you have to make a diagnosis. This happens in the real world.

To me this is an antiquated idea and shouldn't be happening. Funding for doctors is the reason now it is defended but this has been part of teaching doctors for years, and I think is more tradition and a way for hosptials to cut corners on their budget only lately. In my mind, you cannot defend this practice, and then turn around and say because John drove across the country without sleeping that is wrong.

Both are wrong....or both are right. The "motive" or goal is not the issue, it is the act of being up that long that is the issue. It is dangerous to be awake that long and make complex decisions, whether it is diagnoising a patient's condition or negotiating a highway overpass in Denver in the middle of a rainstorm at rush hour.

That was my point. I wasn't so critical of John because it is clear he isn't doing it again, and it is also clear that he tried to monitor what he was doing and planned a way to negate the effects of being weary by his diet and caffiene use. Dumb? Ya, to do it is dumb, and he admits that now. That said, he is a young guy and drove hack in NYC and did this all the time. That should scare anyone the next time they take a cab in Manhatten. This is something he did to prove a point. He proved it...I think, but it was still dumb. That said, he didn't hurt anyone and wont do it again. I don't condone it but I don't want to make a criminal out of him, when society condones the practice of "interning" in the medical community.

[Wade91]

Stupid analogy.

Driving for 37 hours straight has ZERO potential to save lives or do anything beneficial to anyone, much unlike surgery for the same amount of time.
but performing surgery takes alot more focus than driving a car

[Easy Drifter]

While I have never performed surgery (and I would sure hate to be someone I tried it on) I have driven several hundred thousand miles. To be a compentent driver you need to be focused. If you are distracted by trying to read maps or a paper or even talking on the phone you are not giving all your attention to your driving. I have been guilty of some of the above. I to, have driven further than I should when tired. After a couple of all nighters on a race weekend with the next race a thousand miles away with more work to be done on the car tends to cause those things. Not good but I did them. I also know my driving was not up to par.
More than one race car failure has been caused by a crew who were over tired and made a simple mistake and that can be deadly!
I have also raced cars for multi thousands of miles and that takes real concentration and focus. The mental concentration under racing conditions can be every bit a tiring as the physical strain, and I once lost 8 lbs in a very hot race car in only a 100 mile race.
You have to remain really focussed or you can easily make a mistake. If you lose focus and are lucky you get away with it. Been there, done that. (I was lucky.) A couple of 360's at 120 plus mph gets your attention real quick.

[nigelred5]

but performing surgery takes alot more focus than driving a car
Not always. now, I wouldn't want to be undergoing removal of an astrocytoma by a doctor on a 2 day stretch, but a simple laparoscopic cholescystecyomy or emergency appendectomy, happens all the time.


Averaging 80 mph on a cross country trip on insterstate highways is not that unbelievable or unreasonable to be honest. Many states, that isn't even in the eye of patrolling police officers. Doing it solo without any significant rest is unquestionably dangerous.

I used to drive from Florida home to Maryland solo all the time. My best was West Palm beach to home in Northern Maryland 100% on I-95 in 12hr, 15 minute so or roughly averaging 87 mph. I used to do Orlando- home in 10 hrs. solo all the time and actually did it in a TDI once with 1 stop. The majority of that was at nigh on I-95, so traffic was a minimal issue. I've done Houston to El paso in under 7 hours solo. I've also done Kingman AZ to Tulsa in 12 hrs solo. Granted that's not 36+ hours, but none of those were straight out out of bed and on the road trips by any means and those speeds were very common.