USF1 considering Cosworth engine deal

[Tazio]

"Apart from anything else, Cosworth is now owned by an American, Kevin Kalkhoven, and that is a nice little link for us as well."


I'm starting to believe these guys are really serious!
They should consider the Ant as a pilot!! Valve :p :


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74391

[V12]

I always thought it a shame that the Cosworth was just sitting around, it wasn't outclassed when in the back of a Williams, good for them if they do go that route, we need more variety :up:

[gloomyDAY]

Careful guys, don't step in the bull....

[Sonic]

Just like they are 'considering' their drivers, headquarters, sponsorship, staff :p :

[cynisca]

I hope they take part at the Formula One next season.

[Jag_Warrior]

Well, since Kevin Kalkhoven is an American, maybe they'll get Paul Tracy to drive for them... since he's about as much an "American" as Kalkhoven is. Maybe he meant to say Gerry Forsythe?

But confusion about citizenships aside, best of luck to them. The more the merrier. It would be great to see 12-13 teams next year or by 2011.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Last time I looked Kalkoven was from down under, but he works his business empire out of the US.

Cosworth was once British but is now "American" so it is a good fit for this USf1. They also likely are CHEAPER than anyone else. That's the REAL reason they are getting the deal.

[N. Jones]

I always thought it a shame that the Cosworth was just sitting around, it wasn't outclassed when in the back of a Williams, good for them if they do go that route, we need more variety :up:

I agree. I would love to see them come back as they would be a welcome option to the five engines we have now. (plus anything that gives FGP'ers more choices is always fine with me!!)

[CNR]

OK for an f1 reporter you would think he would know what he was on about


"The Cosworth engine is certainly an attractive proposition. It is homologated, those guys were doing a great job with Red Bull Racing when Red Bull suddenly switched to Renault.


redbull switched to ferrari then to renault.

[Marbles]

And FORD badges it and goes onto win another couple of hundred races. What's old is new again. We can all dream.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Sorry but KK is Australian.

[52Paddy]

redbull switched to ferrari then to renault.

More importantly, why did Red Bull decide to dump their Cosworth for a Ferrari engine? Maybe testing proved it wouldn't match the pace of the current crop of engines, even though they were doing a solid job with it at the time. Can Cosworth still compete with the current engine developers? I would like to think so but can't be sure.

[call_me_andrew]

Cosworth is the worst idea because it's so far behind every other engine in development.

[wedge]

I always thought it a shame that the Cosworth was just sitting around, it wasn't outclassed when in the back of a Williams, good for them if they do go that route, we need more variety :up:

Sadly they were outclassed. They were pretty nippy at the start of 2006 but as the season progressed the others could easily achieve 19K RPM and better reliability. Don't think Cosworth will match the big boys.

I think USF1 could have Renaults and rebadge them as Infiniti or Toyota and Lexus. There's some potential marketing opportunities to develop those brands. BMW aren't supplying engines yet either.

[Placid]

I prefer as either Ford, Pontiac or Mazda badged.

And now USGPE is expecting to have an official team name.

Report:
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090411201802.shtml

[CNR]

with the f1 engine freeze the fia may have engine specifications to work from


Summary of F1 engine use
Season Engine Teams Victories Notes
1967 DFV V8 Team Lotus,Matra 4 Debut of DFV

1968 DFV V8 Team Lotus,Matra,Team McLaren 11 Cosworth powered cars won all but one Grand Prix.
Graham Hill won Drivers Championship, 2nd and 3rd placed drivers were also Cosworth powered.
The 3 Cosworth-powered teams took 1st, 2nd and 3rd places in the Constructors' Championship.

1969 DFV V8 McLaren,Brabham,Team Lotus,Matra 11 Cosworth powered cars won every Grand Prix this season.
Jackie Stewart won Drivers Championship
Matra won Constructors' Championship.

1973 DFV V8 McLaren,Brabham,Team Lotus,Tyrrell,Ensign, Iso Marlboro,Surtees, Shadow, March 15 Cosworth powered cars won every Grand Prix this season.
Jackie Stewart won Drivers Championship
Tyrrell won Constructors' Championship.

1975 DFV V8 McLaren,Brabham,Hesketh, Tyrrell, Shadow, March,Williams,Team Lotus,Parnelli,Hill, Penske, Ensign,Fittipaldi,Lyncar,Lola,Maki,Surtees 8
1976 DFV V8 McLaren,Hesketh, Tyrrell, Shadow, March,Wolf Williams,Team Lotus,Parnelli,Brabham,WilliamsPenske, Ensign,Fittipaldi,Kojima,Boro 10 James Hunt won Drivers Championship

1979 DFV V8 Ligier,Williams,Team Lotus 8 Cosworth-powered teams took 2nd, 3rd and 4th place in Constructors Championship

1982 DFV V8 McLaren,Williams, Team Lotus,Tyrrell, Brabham,Arrows,ATS, Osella,Fittipaldi, March,Theodore 8 Keke Rosberg won Drivers Championship

1987 Ford DFZ V8 Benetton,Lola,Tyrrell,AGS,March,Coloni 0
1989 Ford DFR V8 Benetton,Arrows,Tyrrell,Osella,Coloni,Onyx,Ligier, Minardi,Dallara,Rial,AGS 1
1991 HB V8
Ford DFR V8 Benetton,Jordan,Lola, Fondmetal, Coloni, AGS 1 DFR (final Formula One DFV evolution)'s last season

1992 HB V8 Benetton,Team Lotus 1 Michael Schumacher's first ever Grand Prix victory in Cosworth-powered Benetton-Ford

1993 HB V8 Benetton,Team McLaren,Team Lotus,Minardi, Jordan,Fondmetal 6
1994 Ford Zetec V8 Benetton 8 Drivers Championship - Michael Schumacher

1997 Ford V10 Stewart Grand Prix,Lola,Tyrrell 0
1998 Ford V10 VJ Zetec-R (Stewart)
Ford JD Zetec-R(Minardi,Tyrrell) Stewart Grand Prix,Tyrrell,Minardi 0
1999 Ford V10 VJM1/2 Zetec-R (Minardi),
CR-1(Stewart) Stewart Grand Prix Minardi (old engines rebaged as Fondmetal) 1
2000 Ford V10 VJM3 Zetec-R (Minardi)
CR-2 (Jaguar) Jaguar Racing, Minardi (old engines rebaged as Fondmetal) 0
2001 Ford V10 Jaguar Racing , Minardi (old engines rebaged as Fondmetal) 0
2002 - Jaguar Racing,Arrows 0
2003 - Jaguar Racing,Jordan Grand Prix,Minardi 1
2004 - Jaguar Racing,Jordan Grand Prix,Minardi 0
2005 TJ2005 Minardi,Red Bull Racing 0
2006 TJ2006 (V10)- Toro Rosso
CA2006 (V8) - Williams Scuderia Toro Rosso,Williams

[Tazio]

with the f1 engine freeze the fia may have engine specifications to work from
Originally Posted by
Summary of F1 engine use
Season Engine Teams Victories Notes
1967 DFV V8 Team Lotus,Matra 4 Debut of DFV

1968 DFV V8 Team Lotus,Matra,Team McLaren 11 Cosworth powered cars won all but one Grand Prix.
Graham Hill won Drivers Championship, 2nd and 3rd placed drivers were also Cosworth powered.
The 3 Cosworth-powered teams took 1st, 2nd and 3rd places in the Constructors' Championship.

1969 DFV V8 McLaren,Brabham,Team Lotus,Matra 11 Cosworth powered cars won every Grand Prix this season.
Jackie Stewart won Drivers Championship
Matra won Constructors' Championship.

1973 DFV V8 McLaren,Brabham,Team Lotus,Tyrrell,Ensign, Iso Marlboro,Surtees, Shadow, March 15 Cosworth powered cars won every Grand Prix this season.
Jackie Stewart won Drivers Championship
Tyrrell won Constructors' Championship.

1975 DFV V8 McLaren,Brabham,Hesketh, Tyrrell, Shadow, March,Williams,Team Lotus,Parnelli,Hill, Penske, Ensign,Fittipaldi,Lyncar,Lola,Maki,Surtees 8
1976 DFV V8 McLaren,Hesketh, Tyrrell, Shadow, March,Wolf Williams,Team Lotus,Parnelli,Brabham,WilliamsPenske, Ensign,Fittipaldi,Kojima,Boro 10 James Hunt won Drivers Championship

1979 DFV V8 Ligier,Williams,Team Lotus 8 Cosworth-powered teams took 2nd, 3rd and 4th place in Constructors Championship

1982 DFV V8 McLaren,Williams, Team Lotus,Tyrrell, Brabham,Arrows,ATS, Osella,Fittipaldi, March,Theodore 8 Keke Rosberg won Drivers Championship

1987 Ford DFZ V8 Benetton,Lola,Tyrrell,AGS,March,Coloni 0
1989 Ford DFR V8 Benetton,Arrows,Tyrrell,Osella,Coloni,Onyx,Ligier, Minardi,Dallara,Rial,AGS 1
1991 HB V8
Ford DFR V8 Benetton,Jordan,Lola, Fondmetal, Coloni, AGS 1 DFR (final Formula One DFV evolution)'s last season

1992 HB V8 Benetton,Team Lotus 1 Michael Schumacher's first ever Grand Prix victory in Cosworth-powered Benetton-Ford

1993 HB V8 Benetton,Team McLaren,Team Lotus,Minardi, Jordan,Fondmetal 6
1994 Ford Zetec V8 Benetton 8 Drivers Championship - Michael Schumacher

1997 Ford V10 Stewart Grand Prix,Lola,Tyrrell 0
1998 Ford V10 VJ Zetec-R (Stewart)
Ford JD Zetec-R(Minardi,Tyrrell) Stewart Grand Prix,Tyrrell,Minardi 0
1999 Ford V10 VJM1/2 Zetec-R (Minardi),
CR-1(Stewart) Stewart Grand Prix Minardi (old engines rebaged as Fondmetal) 1
2000 Ford V10 VJM3 Zetec-R (Minardi)
CR-2 (Jaguar) Jaguar Racing, Minardi (old engines rebaged as Fondmetal) 0
2001 Ford V10 Jaguar Racing , Minardi (old engines rebaged as Fondmetal) 0
2002 - Jaguar Racing,Arrows 0
2003 - Jaguar Racing,Jordan Grand Prix,Minardi 1
2004 - Jaguar Racing,Jordan Grand Prix,Minardi 0
2005 TJ2005 Minardi,Red Bull Racing 0
2006 TJ2006 (V10)- Toro Rosso
CA2006 (V8) - Williams Scuderia Toro Rosso,Williams

I believe it was 2003 or 2004 when Ferrari engines surpassed Cosworth in total F1 wins!

[Easy Drifter]

They had better stop considering and start doing if they are going to be ready by 2011 let alone 2010.
It has been 2 months since we heard about this team and I have seen nothing positive since then.
Have they a shop, employees or anything?
Does anyone on the forum know?
I do not have many sources any more but those I have can only come up with a big zero.
Their web site is not up and running. That really is no big deal but to sustain real interest an announcement of a factory location or even aquisition of same, or a couple of key employees would at least show progress.
I mean you are not going to build a car in a Starbucks.
I know I keep going on about this but I do have some idea of what it takes to build a team let alone a car and a team.
Again I urge everybody read Steve Matchett's book 'The Chariot Makers.' It is a bit of a dry read but you do get some insight into the complexities of building an F1 car. No one person can design a car today and the computer equipment and programmers needed who comprehend F1 design do not grow on trees. It is not just the car either, it is all the support needed down to the paper clip supplier!
Dr. Steve Olvey said he thought CC cars were high tech until he saw F1 up close.

[CNR]

They had better stop considering and start doing if they are going to be ready by 2011 let alone 2010.
It has been 2 months since we heard about this team and I have seen nothing positive since then.
Have they a shop, employees or anything?
Does anyone on the forum know?




Peter Windsor: The announcement was to say that we were doing it, and that we had the money to become a team in 2010. Having said, we have now been formalising becoming a team. That has meant a lot of work on our side, in terms of paperwork and administration work, and a lot of work with the FIA and FOM in terms of formalising that entry. We are still in the process of that.


I do not have many sources any more but those I have can only come up with a big zero.
google

Their web site is not up and running. That really is no big deal but to sustain real interest an announcement of a factory location or even aquisition of same, or a couple of key employees would at least show progress.


Q. Has your official entry been lodged yet?
PW: Yes. Absolutely. It has been accepted. In fact, it was lodged a long time ago - well before we even did the announcement. And it has been accepted in so far as it can be accepted - in that nobody's entry has been accepted it. Until the 2010 regulations are defined, there is no 2010 championship as such. But we are very confident that we are in great shape, in terms of the entry, and it is looking good.



Q. Q. What is the next step for the team in terms of personnel?
PW: Personnel is an interesting one because a lot of the personnel that are involved in the design and build of the car, we are going to be hiring them very, very soon. And we will be up to full capacity by July/August in that area. In terms of marketing and other stuff like that, that will gradually rise as the year progresses. The interesting area is operations - which is basically race team and a little bit of testing.
That really, by definition, is something we cannot do until October/November. Virtually all the guys we get will be from existing teams - be that F1, or American racing - and we cannot get them until the current season is over. That is something that will happen much later in the year.
We can talk to guys, and we will be and we are, but it is quite a thing to build a new team from zero. It is not the same as Brawn GP taking over from Honda, or Midland taking over from Jordan. Actually creating something from zero, there are some things that you cannot actually do until a certain date arrives - and operational personnel is one.


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74392

[Daniel]

I hear there's a guy recently available from McLaren :)

[Daniel]

I hear there's a guy recently available from McLaren :)

[DexDexter]

Sadly they were outclassed. They were pretty nippy at the start of 2006 but as the season progressed the others could easily achieve 19K RPM and better reliability. Don't think Cosworth will match the big boys.

I think USF1 could have Renaults and rebadge them as Infiniti or Toyota and Lexus. There's some potential marketing opportunities to develop those brands. BMW aren't supplying engines yet either.

Toyota has spent an awful lot of money to promote the Lexus brand, why on earth would they want the brand to be associated with a small, low-budget team with rookie drivers? The Same applies to Infinity as well.

[wedge]

Toyota has spent an awful lot of money to promote the Lexus brand, why on earth would they want the brand to be associated with a small, low-budget team with rookie drivers? The Same applies to Infinity as well.

Why are Infiniti affiliating themselves with IRL?

USF1 is supposed to be an American team but with operations in Europe.

Infiniti is the luxury arm of Nissan (allied to Renault) primarily for the North American market but seeking to expand in Europe.

[DexDexter]

Why are Infiniti affiliating themselves with IRL?

USF1 is supposed to be an American team but with operations in Europe.

Infiniti is the luxury arm of Nissan (allied to Renault) primarily for the North American market but seeking to expand in Europe.

You think I don't know that?Talking about badging, Renault could put the Dacia-badge into the cars,they would get a lot of exposure without fear of the brand image being tarnished.

[wedge]

How would Infiniti's image be tarnished?

Was Nissan tarnished when the Nissan World Series into Renault World Series?

Is Mercedes-Benz' image being tarnished being associated cheating factory McLarens or the lowly Force India or Brawn GP bettering McLaren?

[CNR]

http://www.icars.sg/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/usf1car.jpg
http://www.icars.sg/2009/3928/america%E2%80%99s-usgpe-formula-1-team-considering-cosworth-powerplants/

[DexDexter]

How would Infiniti's image be tarnished?

Was Nissan tarnished when the Nissan World Series into Renault World Series?

Is Mercedes-Benz' image being tarnished being associated cheating factory McLarens or the lowly Force India or Brawn GP bettering McLaren?

Mercedes is an established premium brand, Infinity wants to be that outside North America. What I'm saying is that sponsoring/badging an engine of a backmarker team is perhaps not the best way to make Europeans think you are premium.

[veeten]

Mercedes is an established premium brand, Infinity wants to be that outside North America. What I'm saying is that sponsoring/badging an engine of a backmarker team is perhaps not the best way to make Europeans think you are premium.

I guess that you're inferring that only the teams at the front of the grid should have the marquee auto companies sponsoring/badging their engines, the middle teams having 'mainstay' companies, and that the lower teams should just settle for 'table scraps', because it would then not cause harm to your view of the 'pecking order'.

[DexDexter]

I guess that you're inferring that only the teams at the front of the grid should have the marquee auto companies sponsoring/badging their engines, the middle teams having 'mainstay' companies, and that the lower teams should just settle for 'table scraps', because it would then not cause harm to your view of the 'pecking order'.

That's not what I meant, I just pointed out that from a marketing point of view sponsoring/badging a small team isn't necessarily very valuable if your competitors such as Mercedes and BMW are at the front of the grid. But hey, Infinity came to Europe with big gasoline engines without a diesel option, badging an engine of a backmarker team cannot be any worse.

http://www.icars.sg/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/usf1car.jpg
http://www.icars.sg/2009/3928/america%E2%80%99s-usgpe-formula-1-team-considering-cosworth-powerplants/

Brilliant!

[UltimateDanGTR]

well that certainly looks faster than the Ferrari F60 at the mo..........

[Marbles]

Now that i think of it, could the American being referenced be Gerald Forsythe? Didn't they partner up when they bought Cosworth from Ford? Unless KK bought out Forsythe?

[Marbles]

And as for USGPE not having at least some sort of splash page with a mission statement of sorts on their website at this stage in the game is rather cheesy.

I know they must have their priorities but this would at least be one the easier and cheaper ones to accomplish.

[goodf1fun]

they should buy toro rosso is a good base to start

[CNR]

it would be cheaper to start as a new team as they do not have to pay the
US$48 million entry bond as it has has been scrapped.

Cosworth win sole-engine deal



The FIA have confirmed that Cosworth have won the single engine supply deal.

In a bid to cut the costs of competing in Formula One, FIA President Max Mosley recently proposed the idea of a single engine manufacturer for the sport.

And, with the news earlier this week that Honda have pulled out of F1, it appears as if Mosley's idea is set to go ahead with Cosworth, who have previously supplied engines to F1 teams, being confirmed as the company chosen by the FIA.

"We have completed the tendering process and are now in exclusive negotiations with Cosworth together with Xtrac and Ricardo Transmissions (XR) to supply a complete Formula One power train starting in 2010," said Max Mosley in his letter to FOTA and the Team Principals.

"The engine will be a current Formula One engine while the transmission will be state-of-the-art Formula One and a joint effort by two companies which already supply transmissions to most of the grid."

The engine will carry a price tag of £5.49m (€6.42m) per season along with an initial payment of £1.68m (€1.97m) which will be notably cheaper than what the F1 manufacturers currently charge.

These proposals are, however, only an alternative to independent teams and manufacturers will still be allowed to build engines according to their own specifications

[Marbles]

Yes. Cosworth is charged with supplying the "Generic" or "Arrive and Drive" engine for F1 teams in search of an engine supplier. Something they have a lot of experience with. If those old guys are still around? :)

The sloppily written story mentions Bernie's spec engine aspirations and implys he is on his way to achieving such a goal. Not likely... not in his lifetime anyways. Two separate storys altogether.

[Tazio]

Not likely... not in his lifetime anyways. Two separate storys altogether.

Make that at least three not so separate stories :mark:
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090414133032.shtml

The possible return to the F1 scene of the British-based engine specialist Cosworth was reportedly facilitated by a deal brokered between Max Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone.

It has emerged in recent days that USF1/USGPE - the prospective American team entry for 2010 - is seriously considering using the homologated Cosworth V8 engine next year.

At the end of last year, Cosworth won an FIA tender to supply a low-cost engine and transmission package in 2010.

To guarantee Cosworth's ability to finance the project, it was necessary for FIA President Mosley to garner the support of F1 Chief Executive Ecclestone.



To do this, it is reported by Germany's Auto Motor und Sport that Mosley - keen for the Cosworth proposal to work in order to reduce F1's reliance on car manufacturers - decided to fully back Ecclestone's proposal for the 'winner takes all'-style scoring system.

In return for the FIA's support, Ecclestone promised to guarantee the viability of the Cosworth deal.

[52Paddy]

I'm not a fan of a single engine supplier in F1. Though Bernie does make a good point about lessening the reliance on manufacturer involvement in the sport. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be an overwhelming amount of private interest anyway. Could the Cosworth change that? Its possible, but unlikely to echo the massive grid sizes of the mid-late 80s/early 90s.

[jens]

Cosworth is the worst idea because it's so far behind every other engine in development.

Due to engine freeze the "development level" really doesn't matter. Renault was 'behind' too, but was allowed to catch up this winter.

[nigelred5]

http://www.icars.sg/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/usf1car.jpg
http://www.icars.sg/2009/3928/america%E2%80%99s-usgpe-formula-1-team-considering-cosworth-powerplants/

Aw, that ain't even right!!!! looks like one of those land trains crossin the outback. ;)

[nigelred5]

they should buy toro rosso is a good base to start

That pretty much destroys everything they say they are trying to accomplish. They aren't going racing just to go racing, and they can finish last with what they propose to do for far less money than it would cost to purchase and run STR.

[call_me_andrew]

http://www.icars.sg/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/usf1car.jpg
http://www.icars.sg/2009/3928/america%E2%80%99s-usgpe-formula-1-team-considering-cosworth-powerplants/

That actually makes the front of the car look attractive.

[markabilly]

Dp might even consider laying on the front, for some photo shoots, wearing only her helmet...

[Jag_Warrior]

Obviously a photochop of an American made F1 car. Gotta be... there's no gun rack on it. :D