The McLaren vendetta - Rumour!!

[Knock-on]

Seeing as PbC posted this on another thread, I suppose it's filtering down to the media new.

Initially, it was denied that Ron had any involvement with Spankygate and setting Max up. However, a couple of months ago, I learned that this may not be the case.

So, what will happen if it's true and Max can prove it.

Do you think that he will deal with it through the courts or do you think he will try everything in his power to destroy Ron's legacy: McLaren.

I've a feeling the boys may be in for a bumpy ride :(

[Garry Walker]

Where did you hear Ron is behind spankygate?

[Tazio]

So, what will happen if it's true and Max can prove it.
Amoung other things he will sue his @$$ off :s mokin:

[Knock-on]

Where did you hear Ron is behind spankygate?

I cannot provide a source which is why I clarified it as a rumour but it was from a friend who should know.

[Garry Walker]

I cannot provide a source which is why I clarified it as a rumour but it was from a friend who should know.

I was just starting to like you :p

[tintop]

As Mclaren and Mercedes go, so does the F1 season.

[Tazio]

As Mclaren and Mercedes go, so does the F1 season.Really!
You'ld stop watching F1 because it only contained the lowly:
Brawn
BMW
Ferrari
Williams
Red Bull
Toyota
and etc :confused:

[Sonic]

Really!
You'ld stop watching F1 because it only contained the lowly:
Brawn
BMW
Ferrari
Williams
Red Bull
Toyota
and etc :confused:

Scrub Brawn if Merc goes.

[Tazio]

Scrub Brawn if Merc goes.
Why would Merc go when they have Brawn, and F.I.
And just for yuks lets say they do. Renault, Ferrari or Toyota could supply Brawn and F.I.

[tintop]

Why would Merc go when they have Brawn, and F.I.
And just for yuks lets say they do. Renault, Ferrari or Toyota could supply Brawn and F.I.

Mercedes would go unless they were contractually obligated to continue supplying engines, but I'd assume that arbitrary and capricious behavior by a governing body that would be contravening it's own precedents would void any contracts that Mercedes had with F1 teams.

[Tazio]

:rolleyes: I see what your saying I was thinking in turms of a protracted legal battle between Ron, and Max.
If Merc. Got the boot along with Mac I think they would still be obliged to supply Brawn and F.I.
Then again who knows?

[F1boat]

In my opinion Max wants Ron gone, but about the porn gate scandal, I guess that it is Bernie behind what happened, not Ron.

Initially, it was denied that Ron had any involvement with Spankygate and setting Max up. However, a couple of months ago, I learned that this may not be the case.(

Just out of interest, what would be your thoughts towards Ron, if he has done, doing such a thing?

[ioan]

I cannot provide a source...

Nothing new than.

[W8&C]

...
If Merc. got the boot along with Mac I think they would still be obliged to supply Brawn and F.I. Then again who knows?Do you know how easy it is for company that big not to fulfill a contract? And in a worst case szenario they still can compare the contract penalties with the savings when closing the F1 departement...

[Knock-on]

Nothing new than.

You really are a funny little troll, aren't you :laugh:

I always provide a source if I claim something unless it is opinion or rumour as this is.

We are know you make ridiculous claims and allagations which you run away from, claiming people pick on you and that anyone who doesn't agree with your fantastic, hypocritical, twisted POV is a fanboy and Ferrari hater :laugh:

It really is getting quite pathetic because you can post some very interesting posts but prefer to apply your resourses to the detriment of this forum.

[EuroTroll]

I cannot provide a source which is why I clarified it as a rumour but it was from a friend who should know.

Yeah, but Knockie - remember the time when you thought McLaren was sandbagging? :p : I do. ;) Maybe you shouldn't put too much faith anymore in "friends who should know"? :p :

[Knock-on]

Just out of interest, what would be your thoughts towards Ron, if he has done, doing such a thing?

That's a very interesting question Tamb.

I think it would be beneath a man who has dedicated his life to Motorsport and has achieved so much.

As I didn't hold back in my condemnation of the Lewis lying saga and Spygate, I would not try in any way to justify Ron in this. If it's true, it would be a dirty trick no matter what the provocation.

Did you expect anything other than that because I have always tried to be objective on here and call it like I see it.

Did you expect anything other than that because I have always tried to be objective on here and call it like I see it.

No, I just wondered what a Mclaren fan reaction would be.

[Knock-on]

No, I just wondered what a Mclaren fan reaction would be.

If it is true, it will be a very sad end to a sucessful career and not a legacy he would want.

However, you know what they say; 1F is F1 backwards :D

[Knock-on]

Yeah, but Knockie - remember the time when you thought McLaren was sandbagging? :p : I do. ;) Maybe you shouldn't put too much faith anymore in "friends who should know"? :p :

That was years ago with the new gearbox. Got it working the year after though, didn't they ;) I was just 12 months early :D

[EuroTroll]

That was years ago with the new gearbox. Got it working the year after though, didn't they ;) I was just 12 months early :D

Oh, right. ;) :D

[Tazio]

Do you know how easy it is for company that big not to fulfill a contract? And in a worst case szenario they still can compare the contract penalties with the savings when closing the F1 departement...Do you know how easily they can be sued for breach of contract ;)
Not to mention the bad publicity they would receive in the Anglo,
and Indian transportation car markets!
I don't think Mrec. got to where they are for doing things so suicidal ;)
Plus they would have a rosy future with both Brawn and F.I.
No need to throw toys out of the perambulator :dozey:

[tintop]

Do you know how easily they can be sued for breach of contract ;)
Not to mention the bad publicity they would receive in the Anglo,
and Indian transportation car markets!
I don't think Mrec. got to where they are for doing things so suicidal ;)
Plus they would have a rosy future with both Brawn and F.I.
No need to throw toys out of the perambulator :dozey:

The bad publicity would accrue to F1 in this scenario. As stated previously, the cost savings from departure would far exceed any settlements with the supplied teams. Mercedes isn't in F1 for a Cosworth deal, they are in it to develop engine technology and win races with it under the silver livery.

[Tazio]

The bad publicity would accrue to F1 in this scenario. As stated previously, the cost savings from departure would far exceed any settlements with the supplied teams. Mercedes isn't in F1 for a Cosworth deal, they are in it to develop engine technology and win races with it under the silver livery.
Let me get this straight. So if McLaren went kaput, and the team leading both championships
(which happens to be british) has to fold it's tent because they are not silver. That would be a logical move for Mercedes?
Also the breach would also be against the racing establishment mostly under the jurisdiction of the FIA/WMSC.
This would adversely affect DTM, GTC, and Sports car, both current and vintage.
It would be uncool bro :)

[tintop]

Let me get this straight. So if McLaren went kaput, and the team leading both championships
(which happens to be british) has to fold it's tent because they are not silver. That would be a logical move for Mercedes?
Also the breach would also be against the racing establishment mostly under the jurisdiction of the FIA/WMSC.
This would adversely affect DTM, GTC, and Sports car, both current and vintage.
It would be uncool bro :)

They only supply customer engines because they are producing their own for a co-branded championship caliber team. The marketing payback doesn't work for two non-branded customers, even if one is effectively taking advantage of a potentially short-lived crease in the rules.

Yeah, the FIA/WMSC is really going to punt Mercedes from DTM. :)

[Powered by Cosworth]

I don't think much else will happen now Ron has left McLaren, I think it was more of a vendetta against him personally, rather than the team.

As for the truth of it all, my ol' man was told by Stoddy about everything that happened, and I haven't read about anything in the media about it, so i'm pretty sure it's legit.

[PSfan]

Initially, it was denied that Ron had any involvement with Spankygate and setting Max up. However, a couple of months ago, I learned that this may not be the case.

So, what will happen if it's true and Max can prove it.

Do you think that he will deal with it through the courts or do you think he will try everything in his power to destroy Ron's legacy: McLaren.

I've a feeling the boys may be in for a bumpy ride :(

Wow Knock-on, I'm surprised, but impressed you would start such a thread.

what will happen if its true, and Max can prove it? Has Max talked to your friend yet? :p :

I imagine Max isn't in a big rush to expose Ron and McLeran if he knew about it. Lets face it, kicking McLeran out if this where true wouldn't be the most shocking outcome. I figure Max will wait until he has his budget caps and a few more new teams on the grid before he exposes Ron and sends McLeran packing.

Now it seems that looking at everything that was wrong with the 2007 & 2008 seasons, and with Lie-gate threatening to add 2009 to the list it seems almost everything bad in F1 seems to come from McLeran... Another question should be, would we miss them when their gone?

[PSfan]

Do you know how easy it is for company that big not to fulfill a contract? And in a worst case szenario they still can compare the contract penalties with the savings when closing the F1 departement...

Its one thing to not fulfil a small contract, but quite another when it is completely in the publics eye... Who would consider buying a Mercedes car when the company might choose not to honor their warrenty because they stopped producing that car a year ago?

Mercedes would honor their commitments to Brawn and FI because they can't afford not to in this economy.

[V12]

Seeing as PbC posted this on another thread, I suppose it's filtering down to the media new.

Initially, it was denied that Ron had any involvement with Spankygate and setting Max up. However, a couple of months ago, I learned that this may not be the case.

So, what will happen if it's true and Max can prove it.

Do you think that he will deal with it through the courts or do you think he will try everything in his power to destroy Ron's legacy: McLaren.

I've a feeling the boys may be in for a bumpy ride :(

You know something...the really really sad thing...if this rumour is true, it wouldn't surprise me one little bit.

But we'll see...

[tintop]

Its one thing to not fulfil a small contract, but quite another when it is completely in the publics eye... Who would consider buying a Mercedes car when the company might choose not to honor their warrenty because they stopped producing that car a year ago?

Mercedes would honor their commitments to Brawn and FI because they can't afford not to in this economy.

Don't think that there would be much public fallout from giving up Brawn and Force India engine contracts. There will be a lot of fallout from an arbitrary decision to ban or suspend Mclaren.

[PSfan]

Don't think that there would be much public fallout from giving up Brawn and Force India engine contracts. There will be a lot of fallout from an arbitrary decision to ban or suspend Mclaren.

Hmmm lets consult the dictionary:

ar·bi·trar·y

ar·bi·trar·y [rbə trèrree]
adj
1. based on whim: based solely on personal wishes, feelings, or perceptions, rather than on objective facts, reasons, or principles
* an arbitrary decision

So I would agree with you that kicking McLeran out have been arbitrary.... HAD IT HAPPENED IN 2006!!!

And so Mercedes defaulting on their contracts "on a whim" would be arbitrary

And as for more fallout from McLeran getting kickked out of F1 then Mercedes not honouring their contracts. Assuming by fall out you mean, people on this board having nothing to talk about because McLeran aren't trying to figure out new ways for the FIA to use 151c, then yes you are right again!!!

[ioan]

Another question should be, would we miss them when their gone?

Backmarkers are never missed by anyone! ;)

[tintop]

Hmmm lets consult the dictionary:

ar·bi·trar·y

ar·bi·trar·y [rbə trèrree]
adj
1. based on whim: based solely on personal wishes, feelings, or perceptions, rather than on objective facts, reasons, or principles
* an arbitrary decision

So I would agree with you that kicking McLeran out have been arbitrary.... HAD IT HAPPENED IN 2006!!!

And so Mercedes defaulting on their contracts "on a whim" would be arbitrary

And as for more fallout from McLeran getting kickked out of F1 then Mercedes not honouring their contracts. Assuming by fall out you mean, people on this board having nothing to talk about because McLeran aren't trying to figure out new ways for the FIA to use 151c, then yes you are right again!!!

uhhh... what?

[Bagwan]

Nobody but the most ardent fan believes anything out of the McLaren mouth , and almost anyone can see this sting as plausably conducted by Dennis .

The team with all that integrity has lost it , in all senses of the words .

[WRCfan]

I bet Bruce McLaren is turning over in his grave. All his hard work, blood sweat and tears (not to mention his own life) and a few to$$ers make a total mockery of everything he did.

Hard to swallow as New Zealanders are so proud of the McLaren tradition.

Latest rumour from Deutschland is that Ron Dennis tried to stop Hamilton doing the press conference.

Treat this as an unconfirmed rumour, as I can't find a link.

[W8&C]

Do you know how easily they can be sued for breach of contract ;)
...Sure.

But du You know how strong their legal department is? Do You know how callous the executives are concerning such “minor problems”. Do you know that - facing a major worldwide financial crisis - every single Euro within that company is thoroughly checked before spending it? Do you know that this affects even the design departements for future production vehicles? Do you know that they have to save 2 Billions of wages in Germany alone? Do you know that its not easy to communicate such losses when you wanna spend 50, 60 or more Millions for a F1 engagement that at the same time brings nothing but bad publicicty? Working for them for 25 years now you can believe me: I know!

[I am evil Homer]

Latest rumour from Deutschland is that Ron Dennis tried to stop Hamilton doing the press conference.

Treat this as an unconfirmed rumour, as I can't find a link.

So we should post wahetver we like and then say "I can't support it with any evidence". Becomes and entirely pointless post...much like this entire thread.

So we should post wahetver we like and then say "I can't support it with any evidence". Becomes and entirely pointless post...much like this entire thread.

Can you read?

Ther thread title explicity states "Rumour". If you don't want to be a party to a thread about a rumour, don't read one that has "rumour" well estabilished in its title.

Honestly, some people....

Oh, and I can't support my post because it was reported on German radio, and there is no link I can give. I also don't speak German well enough to find any link on the internet, but I was relaying what I had heard through an ex-colleague, hence the reason why I stated "treat this as an unconfirmed rumour".

However, the Times is now reporting something similar to it...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article6062003.ece

"The full role he played in this affair is still not clear, but some believe that he was instrumental in determining whether Ryan and Hamilton backed down before the reconvened stewards' meeting in Kuala Lumpur or continued to “provide deliberately misleading evidence”"

and

"'The Times requested information on two critical issues concerning Dennis yesterday. First, whether he spoke to Ryan in between the protest hearing in Melbourne and the second one four days later in Kuala Lumpur, where Ryan and Hamilton repeated the untruths they uttered in Australia. Second, whether it is the case that Dennis was strongly opposed to Hamilton making a formal apology in front of the massed ranks of the media.'

The report also added that: 'According to some paddock insiders, a deal may be reached whereby Hamilton stays at McLaren but Dennis either leaves or formally renounces any involvement in future Formula One activities and leaves the running of the team entirely in Whitmarsh's hands."

http://msn.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5160891,00.html

and...

"Other British newspapers, including the Daily Mail, are raising questions about Ron Dennis' involvement in the saga, as current boss Martin Whitmarsh weighs up his own future in charge of the team

It is suggested that chairman Dennis may have spoken to the sacked Dave Ryan between the Australian stewards meeting and the one in Malaysia, and also that he "was strongly opposed" to Hamilton's contrite apology in front of the world's media at Sepang

The implication is that the 61-year-old, unlike Whitmarsh who was holidaying between the two races, could join Ryan in becoming a 'sacrificial lamb', leaving Whitmarsh and Hamilton able to continue as before"

http://www.onestopstrategy.com/dailyf1news/nieuw/article/7324-%27Lie-gate%27+rolls+on,+Hamilton+to+Brawn%3F.html

[Tazio]

Sure.

But du You know how strong their legal department is? Do You know how callous the executives are concerning such “minor problems”. Do you know that - facing a major worldwide financial crisis - every single Euro within that company is thoroughly checked before spending it? Do you know that this affects even the design departements for future production vehicles? Do you know that they have to save 2 Billions of wages in Germany alone? Do you know that its not easy to communicate such losses when you wanna spend 50, 60 or more Millions for a F1 engagement that at the same time brings nothing but bad publicicty? Working for them for 25 years now you can believe me: I know!We may never know :)