From a Champcar fans perspective...... [Archive]

jimispeed

7th April 2009, 19:01

I've posted this before. Please tell me, what are your thoughts. Are there any former CART/Champcar fans out there anymore? Or, have some of you placed me on "ignore"?

They rebroadcast the race again last night. Not bad!

Here are my points. What are yours? I've put the the most important points for me as a fan in bold...

1. Very exciting race!!
2. Fantastic Wilson!!
3. Doornbos will be himself by Long Beach
4. Nice Commentary!!
5. RHR!!
6. Reminded me of Champcar!!
7. Even my wife commented on the engines sounding more like Champcar engines!! good thing
8. Tire compounds worked just as well as it did in Champcar!!
9. No PT :(
10. Still aching for Turbos, Push to Pass, and a sexier car without a bunghole.....
11. Not a Jack Arute fan...
12. Shouldn't Will Power have been penalized for the pitbox incident??
13. Nice production!!
14. Just like Champcars downfall, Indycar will need advertisement on other networks if they want to thrive in motorsports.
15. With all of that road course talent, shouldn't they have a "Vanderbilt Cup" trophy for the road/street courses?

cynisca

7th April 2009, 19:17

I have been a fan of the Champ Car and I loved the races. I attended the German 500 in 2001 and I just can say, awesome. But I was really sad when I heard about the retirement. Anyway I prefer a combined IndyCar Series.

bzcam

7th April 2009, 19:30

I've posted this before. Please tell me, what are your thoughts. Are there any former CART/Champcar fans out there anymore? Or, have some of you placed me on "ignore"?

They rebroadcast the race again last night. Not bad!

Here are my points. What are yours? I've put the the most important points for me as a fan in bold...

1. Very exciting race!!

8. Tire compounds worked just as well as it did in Champcar!!

10. Still aching for Turbos, Push to Pass, and a sexier car without a bunghole.....

1. Boring, sloppy race. Too many yellows, too many restarts, too many crashes, too many miscues in the pits. I watched F1 just prior to watching this and its a night a day comparison. Its like watching the NFL then going to a high school football game. There is potential but it aint there yet.

8. Loved the tires. Are they just for road courses? Do they use them on ovals too? Good addition to the series should make for better strategy decisions. Plus, seeing the red stripes again makes the cars look faster and way cooler..

10. Turbos and push to pass are nice for road courses but would they work on ovals? These cars have to do both and one wonders if these road course enhancements would just lead to more crashes and injuries on the ovals. I am all for new cars, but the Panoz DP-01 type might not be right for Indy.

BZ

chuck34

7th April 2009, 19:48

1. Boring, sloppy race. Too many yellows, too many restarts, too many crashes, too many miscues in the pits. I watched F1 just prior to watching this and its a night a day comparison. Its like watching the NFL then going to a high school football game. There is potential but it aint there yet.

8. Loved the tires. Are they just for road courses? Do they use them on ovals too? Good addition to the series should make for better strategy decisions. Plus, seeing the red stripes again makes the cars look faster and way cooler..

10. Turbos and push to pass are nice for road courses but would they work on ovals? These cars have to do both and one wonders if these road course enhancements would just lead to more crashes and injuries on the ovals. I am all for new cars, but the Panoz DP-01 type might not be right for Indy.

BZ

1) I saw one miscue in the pits, Power. Did I miss another one? Did you watch F1 last year? I saw more than one car pull away with a fuel hose still attached. I saw a fair share of incidents in the F1 race this weekend too. Those guys are supposed to be the best in the world and they couldn't drive around in a bit of rain (Alonso went off when it was just damp for one, others as well). Plus there were other incidents before the rain. Heiki just spun right off for no reason, a few cars got together, etc. Not that I'm knocking the F1 guys, I'm just saying they ain't perfect either.

8) Only on road courses. Could you imagine the marbles on an oval? Yikes.

10) Turbos have been done before, and looks like they'll be on the new car in 2011. I don't care one way or the other, but I know a lot of people MUST have them ... whatever. Push-to-pass is too much of a "video game" type thing. I don't like it at all. Same goes for KERS in F1. Now if they droped the 6sec/80HP restriction on the KERS, it could be really cool. The DP-01 would be too light and "weak" to survive on an oval. Again I wouldn't be opposed to something like that. But I want to see at least two manufacturers so that function will once again dictate form instead of someones astetic preference.

FORMULA-A

7th April 2009, 19:51

I too am a long time CHAMP FAN. I was not expecting much if anything from the VERSUS team. I was pleasantly shocked. I thought the qualifying show was good but the race was better. The coverage was much better then anything I have recently seen and even my wife watched the race and remarked that "it was as good as I remember in the CBS days" she's in the biz and like I said I was very enthusiastic about what I saw....at least on TV as I am a JUSTIN FANATIC and I thought he would have won if those darn restarts didn't finally gank him.

Onward.

The instant classic

7th April 2009, 19:55

chuck34

7th April 2009, 19:58

couldnt agree more,
put it this way, after 15 laps i stop watching and started watching the NASCAR race and must say enjoyed myself loads!

Time to change your name then?

The instant classic

7th April 2009, 20:01

Time to change your name then?
to be honest with you, its getting there to changing names, i dont know how you or others feel about the 2008 season, but i dislike it much, and the season opener i disliked, but im hoping long beach will be a great race and bring me back

chuck34

7th April 2009, 20:05

to be honest with you, its getting there to changing names, i dont know how you or others feel about the 2008 season, but i dislike it much, and the season opener i disliked, but im hoping long beach will be a great race and bring me back

What don't you like about it? Just being nosey.

Oh and if you didn't watch the end of the race, you missed a great race.

jwhite9185

7th April 2009, 20:13

Im an ex Champcar fan. Although i did watch IRL too, CC was my favorite. Still miss CC, but i guess its better than nothing.

jimispeed

7th April 2009, 20:15

10) Push-to-pass is too much of a "video game" type thing.

It's pretty D*** exciting watching two or three drivers "on the button" shooting for the corner, and then late braking!! The more consistent the driver, the more push to pass they have to use at the end of the race! It's exciting stuff if you haven't seen it before. It's a great addition to road/street racing IMO!

12) Why wasn't Will Power penalized for the pit incident??

The instant classic

7th April 2009, 20:16

What don't you like about it? Just being nosey.
i loved the 2007 season it was awsome (in my view) and i think indycar set the bar really high after that season, but 2008 they lost dario and sam,
and for me i missed them on track, and unless you where a die-hard dixson fan or danica fan, thier was nothing that really jummped out at me and said WOW, i know we all like to make picks on whos gonna be champ?
but everyone said dixson was gonna win indy and the title, so when it happend it didnt come as any big shock to me,

and i had alot of personal things happen in the off season of 2007, heading into 2008, so when the 2008 season stated i had alittle bit of dislike to indycar, its along story and very personal :\

chuck34

7th April 2009, 20:50

It's pretty D*** exciting watching two or three drivers "on the button" shooting for the corner, and then late braking!! The more consistent the driver, the more push to pass they have to use at the end of the race! It's exciting stuff if you haven't seen it before. It's a great addition to road/street racing IMO!

12) Why wasn't Will Power penalized for the pit incident??

What's different about that and three drivers "full throttle" shooting for the corner, and then late braking? That's pretty D*** exciting too! I watched it in ChampCar, and I don't think it really added much, other than something else for the commentators to blab on about, but that's just my opinion, YMMV.

chuck34

7th April 2009, 20:52

i loved the 2007 season it was awsome (in my view) and i think indycar set the bar really high after that season, but 2008 they lost dario and sam,
and for me i missed them on track, and unless you where a die-hard dixson fan or danica fan, thier was nothing that really jummped out at me and said WOW, i know we all like to make picks on whos gonna be champ?
but everyone said dixson was gonna win indy and the title, so when it happend it didnt come as any big shock to me,

and i had alot of personal things happen in the off season of 2007, heading into 2008, so when the 2008 season stated i had alittle bit of dislike to indycar, its along story and very personal :\

So it sounds like you were/are a Sam and Dario fan, so am I. Why couldn't you just pick new guys to root for? What would you have done had they stayed in IRL until they retired?

The instant classic

7th April 2009, 20:55

So it sounds like you were/are a Sam and Dario fan, so am I. Why couldn't you just pick new guys to root for? What would you have done had they stayed in IRL until they retired?
my fave is helio has been since his champcar days, but sam was the first indycar driver i heard about, cuz i always heard he was like "the man" in indycar, so having the one who got me into indycar, leave in a wierd way i felt alone in the 2008 year, right now with no sam or helio, i really dont have a fave lol so im lookin for new faves

DBell

7th April 2009, 21:25

What's different about that and three drivers "full throttle" shooting for the corner, and then late braking? That's pretty D*** exciting too! I watched it in ChampCar, and I don't think it really added much, other than something else for the commentators to blab on about, but that's just my opinion, YMMV.

The last San Jose race had passes on track for the lead. That race had always been a snore before. Push to pass wasn't the sole reason for that action, but I believe it was a factor. I think it may make it's biggest difference on street courses.

Chris R

7th April 2009, 21:55

PA Rick

7th April 2009, 22:04

The last San Jose race had passes on track for the lead. That race had always been a snore before. Push to pass wasn't the sole reason for that action, but I believe it was a factor. I think it may make it's biggest difference on street courses.
The Push to Pass may be replaced by the KERS system if it is successful in F1. Ethanol and Kinetic energy recovery sound really green even if you're actually ending up where you start.

elis

7th April 2009, 22:13

I used to watch both series' , but Champ Car was the star for me... loved it, supported it, frequently travelled across the ocean to watch it, openly admit to shedding a tear when it closed it's doors. Champ Car was like a 'family'.

Last year soley watching ics took some getting use to, but seeing as the majority of guys competing had raced at some time or other in cart/cc I had a focus :)

ST Pete's was fine, I like the challenges of street circuits, closeness of the walls, never knowing what's round the blind corner! A driver needs 100% concentation for the entire race as there's zero forgiveness for momentary lapses. Kudos to all drivers. There was some good sporadic exciting action on Sunday, some hard luck stories, (for more than just that one 'particular' person, though you'd hardly know it). Was a tad miffed that the Penske didn't get a peno for the pit box error, seeing as the HVM did last year for a similar mishap.. but hey ;)

Liked the red/black tyres angle.

Cars are just nothing to look at.. but then neither are the current breed of F1 shockers, so no real biggy.. 'Aesthetically' the DP01 really would still stand out as a winner in the ow beauty padgent ;)

I'll continue to watch & give my support primarily to the latter day ex CC crews, HVM, KV, DC, etc... & to ex F3 boy Helio, should he (hopefully) return to the fold.

Only thing that irritated majory last season, almost to a point of switching off the TV was the incessant Danica Patrick coverage & over exposure. Sorry DP fans, but as a 'fan' of racing I like to watch & hear objective broadcasts, with equal exposure for every driver, for every team. Hopefully this will happen in 2009... though wont hold my breath as blue is sooo not my colour :crazy:

jmo

chuck34

7th April 2009, 22:20

The last San Jose race had passes on track for the lead. That race had always been a snore before. Push to pass wasn't the sole reason for that action, but I believe it was a factor. I think it may make it's biggest difference on street courses.

I didn't see the last San Jose race. After the "jump" race I didn't choose to watch again. So I can't really make a judgment call on that particular race. But in general you will see a race at a track one year be a snore fest, the next year it's the best race ever. I just don't see push-to-pass making that much of a difference. But maybe that particular race was different.

fugariracing

7th April 2009, 22:38

I didn't see the last San Jose race. After the "jump" race I didn't choose to watch again. So I can't really make a judgment call on that particular race. But in general you will see a race at a track one year be a snore fest, the next year it's the best race ever. I just don't see push-to-pass making that much of a difference. But maybe that particular race was different.

A bunch of lead changes inspired by both Push-to-Pass and the white line designed to prevent blocking into T1, and that race was definitely stout. Plus Bobby D won after starting 15th, mainly due to off-sequence strategy but he passed a lot of cars too.

I definitely preferred CART/Champ Car from when I first started watching and there's definitely still room for improvement for IndyCar.

The reds/blacks are good. The cynic in me wonders if that was an honest mistake by Power in the pits or intentionally to balk Dixon. I highly doubt it but just found it kind of funny watching.

The cars are still a bit ungainly on the road and street courses if not as bad on the ovals. But they are not changing for a couple more years at least. So like Stephen Stills sung, "love the one you're with."

Overall, a pretty good race. I thought the coverage was great - VERSUS did an excellent job covering the entire field, good camera angles, running long for interviews and good chemistry both from the booth and pit reporters. Especially liked that Danica was not covered 24/7. A HUGE improvement over what ESPN was offering the last few years.

If, as reported, the ratings are as low as they are, then it is both expected and somewhat of a negative too. Certainly nobody was expecting huge numbers but long-term, it's still going to be difficult to attract sponsorship and ultimately that's what pays the bills.

bblocker68

8th April 2009, 16:27

The race reminded me of CART, 15 years ago.

bzcam

8th April 2009, 19:33

What don't you like about it? Just being nosey.

Even though you didn't ask me, I'll tell you what I don't like about it. In the IRL on ovals, the teams with money drive away from the teams without money. Penske, Ganassi and AGR dominate from the green flag due to one thing - money. The only surprise on ovals is which of the three teams will have a winner. Of the eight drivers on the three teams, five (ok six if you count Marco) could win on any given day on any oval. No one, from any of the other teams ever even has a chance.

On the road courses, which are the great equalizers, its usually the course itself that sucks. Setting up a concrete tunnel in the streets of some city and calling it a road course is a joke. Slight miscues and small mistakes can ruin your whole day when concrete barriers are inches away from the while and red lines. Open road courses like Road America are too few on the IRL schedule. So, what should be the most exciting part of AOWR isn't. It's the cautious drivers that win, not the aggressive ones.

Having said all that, I will still watch every minute of every broadcast. I do love watching cars go into the turns in Texas three abreast at 220 mph. I do love the Indy 500. I just want it all to be better.

The more I watch F1, the more I want IndyCar to be F1.

BZ

garyshell

8th April 2009, 19:38

The more I watch F1, the more I want IndyCar to be F1.

I am a fan of both F1 and IndyCar and the more I watch F1 the more I am damn sure I don't want IndyCar to be anything like F1 with all the BS politics.

Gary

chuck34

8th April 2009, 20:03

I am a fan of both F1 and IndyCar and the more I watch F1 the more I am damn sure I don't want IndyCar to be anything like F1 with all the BS politics.

Gary

Gary, I pretty much agree with you on the politics side. But I do wish it was a bit more like F1 from the tech side of things. I understand that we need to cut costs, but d@mn it I'm an engineer, I want something new and exciting to think about. Plus that will go a long way to shaking things up (maybe) to help out bzcam's issues of the "big 3". Just like F1 this year with BGP.

HoustonCartFan

8th April 2009, 20:04

A few thoughts...

Gotta be honest here and say that St. Pete was a snooze fest. Both the IRL and old CC have NEVER got it right on street circuits. They know where accidents will happen yet it takes forever to clear and always results in a full course yellow. How come F1 can do this and we can't?

In a shocking development, F1 (at least the 1st 2 races) has become more exciting than the IRL since the FIA rule changes. (My opinion of course) Lots of close, fast racing and passing. The cars are a bit unstable under hard braking which creates alot of excitement. They got it right with their formula change even if the cars are weird looking and perhaps a bit ugly.

I like the HD on Versus for sure. More than once, however, they would cut away from someone going to pass to go to another car. Also the nature of street circuits require alot of changing of camera views to keep someone on screen. This is a bit iratating but I would have no suggestion on how to make that better.

I think the current chassis are too large and slow for street racing and hope the new upcoming formula addresses that along with the lack of low end tourque and general lack of horsepower.

Justin Wilson showed his skill and why he should be on a top team.

In reality it comes down to Comcast and their ability to grow Versus. If they cannot succeed it might not matter how good the IRL makes their races and broadcasts.

Looking forward to Long Beach.

jimispeed

8th April 2009, 20:48

Indycar/Comcast will have to advertise on other channels/networks in order to get more potential fans to go there! Some people who have Versus only stumble upon that network once in awhile, while others who don't have it, would change their lineup in order to be able to see it.

Bottom line is, just like Champcar, money must be spent in order to advertise to bring more viewership. Without that, it's gonna be a slow and painful death.....

jimispeed

9th April 2009, 11:01

Was it something I said? :confused:

dataman1

9th April 2009, 14:49

I would also like to know why Power can miss his pit box, blocking a competitor access to his pit, leave the pits before Dixon and get away freely without penalty. Did Power's error/action impede Dixon's chance at having a go at Briscoe?

maxmach

9th April 2009, 15:26

As for the race itself, I thought it was good, not great, but good. It is the first race of the season, and it's a long off season, and there is not much testing.Seemed like everyone was a bit rusty. There were a few too many crashes taking too long to clear, I suppose the cost of having cranes is why they don't, but it would help.
Like the tires selection, wouldn't mind push to pass, still seems like the cars need less aero, but they are old cars now.
Ok, is it just me or would you guys like to see slightly tougher cars, one little touch and carbon fiber goes flying and tires get cut, etc. I don't want to see demolition derby but a design where they could bump a bit with destroying themselves would be good.
The ratings, c'mon, it's on Verses. Nobody knows verses, and almost nobody knows indycar racing. Tell your friends to watch, take your friends to a race and write usatoday/espn/sports illustrated and request more coverage. Remember, indycar is a work in progress right now, it needs our help to prospere.

bblocker68

9th April 2009, 15:28

I was wondering that too, dataman. He should've had a penalty, but I don't think Dixon had the goods to win at St. Pete.

harvick#1

9th April 2009, 16:07

couldnt agree more,
put it this way, after 15 laps i stop watching and started watching the NASCAR race and must say enjoyed myself loads!

lol

we were the exact opposite then, I turned off the Nascar race because cookie cutter races are so damn boring, I thought St. Pete was a good race, and I can't for next week for Long beach

Rex Monaco

9th April 2009, 21:46

I was at Disneyland.

The instant classic

9th April 2009, 21:55

lol

we were the exact opposite then, I turned off the Nascar race because cookie cutter races are so damn boring, I thought St. Pete was a good race, and I can't for next week for Long beach
LOL
i had to watch the nascar race from my hotel room, cuz i went to the St Pete race and saw an old face (my ex) and it killed the whole trip so i left befor the race even started, and watch St pete on tv for 15 laps, and said to myself,

hey the day cant get any wosre might as well watch nascar to bring me down 100%

Mark in Oshawa

9th April 2009, 23:05

The race reminded me of CART, 15 years ago.

If that is what you saw, that works for me. 1990 to 1995 CART was the best OW racing I had seen since the late 70's f1.

I didn't get to see the race, since I was enroute to the Carolinas in the rig. That said, from what I have heard from anyone who saw it was that VS is doing a good job for the most part on the broadcasts and they are giving enough air time to do the race properly. We cant ask for anything more as fans than that.

I was a Champ Car die-hard. Still was a fan until about the last 2 years of CCWS when I realized the Amigo's were not all they thought they were. Didn't really like the IRL cars nor the ABC/ESPN coverage. So when the merger came I had to take the time and be objective about the coverage and the merged product. I can live with the racing as it improves...but I just cannot warm up to the Dallara's.

As for PSP, a gimmick that we could do without. The redwalls? Good idea for road or street courses, Bridgestone likely wont use them on ovals, and if there was a soft option for the ovals, it would have to be a well tested compound as an option.

I am optimistic as the time goes on the series will start to grow a culture and identity with this new TV partner and my only reservations are in that the damage done from the schism in the sport that it all may be too late for OW racing to really make a strong comeback in anything less than a decade. I think this sport was wounded so badly by all of this political nonsense that the damage is generational, in that it may be a generation of race fans will have to replace some of us before the series will be judged by the causal fan on its own merits as it stands now....

Mark in Oshawa

9th April 2009, 23:23

As for the contention by someone up there that he didn't like oval racing in the IRL because all the top teams won and the poorer teams had no shot, may I remind him that fair is where you buy funnel cakes. Racing isn't about being "fair" when it comes to money. Name me a sport where the rich teams don't have the advantage. It is negated to a bit on road/street courses in the IRL now, but Penske still put both cars on the top two spots on the podium.

Racing is a Darwinian enviroment. If you have the best engineers, best mechanics and best drivers, you will have to pay for them. If you pay, you usually get results. There is some window for smaller teams to sneak in there and THAT is exciting and I wouldn't want it to stop, but stop with the fiction that it is wrong that rich teams win. It is the nature of all sport, whether you watch the Premier League in England, NFL football ( rich teams really win there, don't kid yourself) or the NHL in Hockey. Teams that have limited resources may sneak in once or twice over a few years, but over time, the teams with money win more often, period. To become one of those teams, you have to work harder with less and prove you deserve to step up and find a sponsor that recognizes it. Whether it happens on an oval or road course is immaterial.

bzcam

10th April 2009, 17:20

...may I remind him that fair is where you buy funnel cakes. Racing isn't about being "fair" ...

I never said it wasn't fair - I said it was the reason I didn't like it. Read more closely next time.

BZ

FIAT1

13th April 2009, 19:00

With proper cars could be something. I did abserved that factory team is not doing so good. Drivers ?

garyshell

13th April 2009, 19:20

With proper cars could be something. I did abserved that factory team is not doing so good. Drivers ?

Huh?

Gary

bzcam

13th April 2009, 19:44

Huh?

Gary

I think what he meant to say was, "With suitable cars it could be something. I am made observed that the factory with car does not make also good. Dischargers?"

Given that it ends in a question, my answer would simply be, "I am sometime always going the factory, the car, the acceleration and the course of the racing to enumirate for the winning runners."

I think that says it all.

BZ

garyshell

13th April 2009, 20:50

Sorry bzcam, that makes even less sense. I have no clue what EITHER of you are trying to say.

Gary

bzcam

13th April 2009, 22:12

Sorry bzcam, that makes even less sense. I have no clue what EITHER of you are trying to say.

Gary

:)

BZ

CCWS77

15th April 2009, 03:11

As for the contention by someone up there that he didn't like oval racing in the IRL because all the top teams won and the poorer teams had no shot, may I remind him that fair is where you buy funnel cakes. Racing isn't about being "fair" when it comes to money. Name me a sport where the rich teams don't have the advantage.

There is a difference between hiring all the best staff/players and just buying victory through resources and equipment. Are the NY Yankees allowed to simply buy high tech bats and sticky gloves? No. If they hire all the best players and win then yes money was a factor...it allowed a team with money to collect all the best talent. The best players still won in the end, no matter what thier team name is. Can't really say that about the IRL or most of racing. When you consider this is one of the biggest complaints of the public about major league sports....this most definately is more important then your dismissal of it suggests