Brawn GP - Title Contenders?

[cynisca]

Is Jenson Button a title contender? I mean two wins in a row also two pole positions in a row. Championship leader is Jenson Button with 15 points, on second is Rubens Barrichello with 10 points.

I know it has just been two race gone but I really think they are title contenders. So what you think about Jenson Button's chances to win the title or about Brawn GP in generally?

Here the official website:
http://www.brawngp.com/

[Valve Bounce]

Is Jenson Button a title contender? I mean two wins in a row also two pole positions in a row. Championship leader is Jenson Button with 15 points, on second is Rubens Barrichello with 10 points.

I know it has just been two race gone but I really think they are title contenders. So what you think about Jenson Button's chances to win the title or about Brawn GP in generally?

Here the official website:
http://www.brawngp.com/

Better wait till after the Diffusergate hearing before you count your Prawns as championship material. But if I were to take a punt, then the Prawn could be winners, especially cooked over a bunsen.

[leopard]

Can all teams produce the same diffuser, isn't it part of aerodynamic package?

On a discussion about my wish on WDC but not sure whereabouts, Jenson Button is the first in my list...

[F1boat]

If the FIA does not DQ them, I think that they at least will fight for the titles.

[Ari]

Can all teams produce the same diffuser, isn't it part of aerodynamic package?

On a discussion about my wish on WDC but not sure whereabouts, Jenson Button is the first in my list...

If it's deemed legal then yes all teams should be able to follow. That said, it's not that easy. They would need time aero testing etc so would be pushed so far back in time and development that it would be too late.

By the time the others catch up the WDC would have likely passed.

[big_sw2000]

If it's deemed legal then yes all teams should be able to follow. That said, it's not that easy. They would need time aero testing etc so would be pushed so far back in time and development that it would be too late.

By the time the others catch up the WDC would have likely passed.
Can not see how its possible, i may be wrong but dose the testing ban mean windtunnel testing as well.

[big_sw2000]

Better wait till after the Diffusergate hearing before you count your Prawns as championship material. But if I were to take a punt, then the Prawn could be winners, especially cooked over a bunsen.
Ah so its not chuck a few shrimps on the barbi :s mokin:

[Mark]

Brawn need to make the most of the flyaway races. A pity they couldn't get the full 10 points from Malaysia.

I suspect we may well see more victories in China and Bahrain, then the real fight will start as the grandee teams, especially Ferrari, come back up to speed.

Brawn possibly needs to start thinking about team orders, yes, it's early, but this could well be their one and only shot at the championship, they need to make sure Button takes the maximum points away from every race, even if it means moving Rubens out of the way.

[ArrowsFA1]

Brawn possibly needs to start thinking about team orders, yes, it's early, but this could well be their one and only shot at the championship, they need to make sure Button takes the maximum points away from every race, even if it means moving Rubens out of the way.
One thing that has struck me a couple of times is a difference between the two Brawn drivers. JB very much seems to be the 'team' man. Of course he's been with BAR/Honda/Brawn a long time, and has effectively invested his career in them. Of course he's now been rewarded with race wins but I still have the sense that he is very much an integral part of this whole Brawn team.

Rubens, on the other hand, seems to be racing more for himself. He's made comparisons with his current situation, and that which he found himself while with Ferrari, a number of times. It's as if he has something to prove to himself and everyone else and this winning Brawn car is giving him the chance to do that.

The problem for him, with JB winning, is he could well find himself back in a Ferrari-type situation once again :dozey:

[leopard]

Firstly, as the quality wise Button is fairly a better raw material, I can't remember too much when did he crash on someone, the most possible reason forces him retired form a race was for engine fault. I can say Ruben drove like touching everybody at Melbourne.

Secondly, Button has some degree to which the output of a system accurately reproduces the essential characteristics of its input resulted from fidelity dedicated for the team, taking the risk of sacrificing the rest of his career with the team.

The closest comparison that Ruben resembles Massa roles, either for their similar driving style or their destiny. ;)

[UltimateDanGTR]

Branw arent contenders. They're the leaders. They are definatly in it no question. and at the moment Brawn and Button are the favourites for me. I think its a question of who will challenge them rather than who will they challenge

[Knock-on]

The Brawn car is a very good car indeed. If you take Jenson out of the equation, it seems on a par with Toyota and slightly ahead of the rest.

Jenson is making the most of the opportunity and proving what a few of us have already maintained.

Lets see if the vastly superior resourses of the bigger teams overtake the Brawn car in the next few races but if they can keep on par with development and not fall behind the curve, then Button could very well bring it home.

[Mark]

Lets see if the vastly superior resourses of the bigger teams overtake the Brawn car in the next few races but if they can keep on par with development and not fall behind the curve, then Button could very well bring it home.

But as EJ has said, teams can't spend their way out of problems any more, due to the lack of testing. Let's see if that is bourne out.

Perhaps we will see situations in the future where the car you have at the start of the season is pretty much what you're stuck with since you don't have opportunity to fix it.

[AndyL]

One thing that has struck me a couple of times is a difference between the two Brawn drivers. JB very much seems to be the 'team' man. Of course he's been with BAR/Honda/Brawn a long time, and has effectively invested his career in them. Of course he's now been rewarded with race wins but I still have the sense that he is very much an integral part of this whole Brawn team.

Rubens, on the other hand, seems to be racing more for himself. He's made comparisons with his current situation, and that which he found himself while with Ferrari, a number of times. It's as if he has something to prove to himself and everyone else and this winning Brawn car is giving him the chance to do that.


That's a good observation, I think you're probably right. A possible example of this: Rubens' comments about his slow pit stops yesterday sounded like he was publicly blaming the mechanics for making a mistake. Contrast Jenson's response to his slow pit stop in Australia - he stated in the official press conference that the mistake was his.

Of course it may well be quite true that Jenson was at fault there, but the cause of the slow stop wasn't at all obvious and he didn't have to publicly take the blame. Similarly Rubens may be blameless, but he could have made his criticisms in private.

[jens]

BGP001 is a brilliant racing car, I'd say clearly above others at the moment. No matter how does the diffuser-gate end, I expect BGP to remain among front-runners, this is just how impressive they have seemed so far despite DDD.

And I think Button is the biggest title contender at the moment. He proved already in 2004-2006 that he can be very consistent in a good car, so even if others raise their game, it will still be difficult to eat up the gap that has been created. JB may keep his lead by having 2005-alonsoesque season - after getting an early advantage achieves consistent high points without shining too much and keeps the lead.

Before the season I expected Button to beat Barrichello in 2009 and so far it seems to be going that way. I think 2007-2008 was really quite much down to JB's lack of motivation and RB's real need to prove himself. Now Button is on the top of his game again like in 2006 and Rubens is left behind. Shame for Barrichello, I hoped to see him doing well this year and if he won the title, it would be a fantastic story, but alas he seems to be more like a perennial No.2. And unlike Button he has been making mistakes this year too - due to desperation that '09 might be his last chance?

[Anubis]

Brawn GP would appear to have a fundamentally sorted car. How much of that is down to the diffuser is open to question, but it can't JUST be the reason, surely? The Red Bulls look pretty racey, and they have "standard" diffusers, so maybe it's just that the midfield teams stole a march on the big boys due to not being embroiled in a title fight to the death? I'm sure the others will catch up, but given how much of a pig that McLaren seems to be at the moment, I'm not convinced simply bolting a trick diffuser to it will solve things. Even if they DO get on the pace and Brawn fade slightly, there are now far more drivers regularly vying for decent points finishes (both Toyotas, Red Bull, Williams etc), so the odds of one driver clawing back a big gap diminish. If Brawn can build up a lead and then defend it, I think Button is in with a very good shot at the WDC, especially if Rubens keeps mixing it up behind him. Shaping up to be a fascinating season.

[keysersoze]

I ain't writing Rubens off just yet. He's been very close to Jenson's pace.

[N. Jones]

Is Jenson Button a title contender? I mean two wins in a row also two pole positions in a row. Championship leader is Jenson Button with 15 points, on second is Rubens Barrichello with 10 points.

I know it has just been two race gone but I really think they are title contenders. So what you think about Jenson Button's chances to win the title or about Brawn GP in generally?

Here the official website:
http://www.brawngp.com/

If they are lucky enough to follow the Renault model of 2005-2006 then they can be: Push hard at the beginning, piling up points, then consistently score at the end once everyone else catches up.

[Mark]

Button himself has said that he's at is best when the car is well balanced and that he has trouble driving around problems.

[samuratt]

They not only have the best car on the grid, the have something else:

1. Do you remember the Nakajima incident at Melbourne, when it took the stewards almost 2 laps to deploy the safety car? Guess who hadn't come to the pits for fuel? Just when Button pitted the SC was out...

2. Why the racing director was so desperate to finish the race at Malasya, even if it meant driving on a flooded track with no visibility for nine laps and behind the SC??? certainly they were no thinking about us, the viewers or the fans... Where they trying to finish the race at all costs so Button could get his 10 points? this will really help him to get a good lead in the standing points...

Anyways, wheather this is just a coincidence or has some truth within, I think Button is in for the Championship, those Brawn GP are great to watch. Very good car + good pilot = championship.

We shall see if it is not too late for the rest to catch up.

[Mark]

Where they trying to finish the race at all costs so Button could get his 10 points? this will really help him to get a good lead in the standing points...

No, that's complete nonsense really. They are under an obligation to run the race if at all possible, which meant waiting until the last moment.

They would have looked like total chumps if 30 minutes before the 2 hour limit they called the race as over, then it stopped raining and they could have had 20 minutes further racing.

[stevie_gerrard]

They certainly have a chance with Button at the wheel, but i wouldn't say it was completely theirs for the taking. They need to continue the great start they have made, and then come Britain, if they have a considerable lead of say 10-20 points they have a great chance.

[samuratt]

No, that's complete nonsense really. They are under an obligation to run the race if at all possible, which meant waiting until the last moment.

They would have looked like total chumps if 30 minutes before the 2 hour limit they called the race as over, then it stopped raining and they could have had 20 minutes further racing.


The nonsense was to try to finish the race in such conditions. It was almost close to the 2h limit and yet they haven't decided, when at 18:30 it was clear enough that there was not enough time to complete the 9 laps they needed to cover the 75% of the grand prix (please bear in mind that the called it off at 18:52, and that in order to restart the race, they needed to do 9 laps after the SC, which would have taken them more than 25min given the conditions, plus another 10 min for the teams to prepare). Therefore the only reason why they wanted to finish the race, once the 2 hours limit was almost completed, was to give full points, and not half. The only logic I see behind this was to award the winner with 10 points rather than 5 (as he is the one that has a bigger loss than the rest...).

Yet again this is only an idea, it has not have to be truth, thoughy it could, and if it is, it is certainly close to fixing results, something the FIA is doing lately a lot.

[jens]

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/04/07/brawn-regrets-not-taking-button-to-ferrari/

Quite interesting praise by Brawn. Is it just a simple case of talking up his own driver or does he seriously think Button should have been considered over, say, Räikkönen?

[AndyL]

Samuratt - bear in mind that the two hour limit would not have actually been two hours, since the time while the race was suspended would have been added to it as per rule 5.3 in the sporting regulations. Of course it would have been dark before the time limit could be reached anyway, but theoretically the race might have continued to 7:15 or a little later if the weather had cleared up.

[Garry Walker]

The Brawn car is a very good car indeed. If you take Jenson out of the equation, it seems on a par with Toyota and slightly ahead of the rest.

Jenson is making the most of the opportunity and proving what a few of us have already maintained.


Jenson is using the car more than Rubens who is struggling when there is a lot of fuel onboard, but the reality is that Brawn GP car is by far ahead of others.
Kimi, Massa, Alonso, Hamilton, Webber, Kubica would all be beating Jenson with ease in that car.

[Robinho]

Jenson is using the car more than Rubens who is struggling when there is a lot of fuel onboard, but the reality is that Brawn GP car is by far ahead of others.
Kimi, Massa, Alonso, Hamilton, Webber, Kubica would all be beating Jenson with ease in that car.

you missed "in my opinion" off the end of that statement ;)

[Mark]

The nonsense was to try to finish the race in such conditions. It was almost close to the 2h limit and yet they haven't decided, when at 18:30 it was clear enough that there was not enough time to complete the 9 laps they needed to cover the 75% of the grand prix

You're going off the assumption here that the only reason to restart the race was to reach the 75% distance marker. But that's not relevant in this case. They are under an obligation to attempt to restart the race even if they cannot reach 75%. They must attempt to do the maximum distance possible.

[samuratt]

You're going off the assumption here that the only reason to restart the race was to reach the 75% distance marker. But that's not relevant in this case. They are under an obligation to attempt to restart the race even if they cannot reach 75%. They must attempt to do the maximum distance possible.

As I said, it is only an idea... Anyways there was no point in restarting the race for 4 laps under the SC. What was the purpose? create an accident? entertaining the fans?? no way.

I stand by my argument, the only reason the had to restart the race was to cover the 75% and give full points, otherwise I can not understand why they were risking an accident in such conditions for a show that the funs are not going to enjoy (who likes to see cars behind the SC for 9 laps???)

[Knock-on]

Jenson is using the car more than Rubens who is struggling when there is a lot of fuel onboard, but the reality is that Brawn GP car is by far ahead of others.
Kimi, Massa, Alonso, Hamilton, Webber, Kubica would all be beating Jenson with ease in that car.

Well, I don't have the benefit of your psycic foresight :p : so all I can do is use the facts on the table.

We have seen the results of RB and MS. Schumacher was a better driver but Rubens was not far off and bested him on quite a few occassions.

In the Honda, they were pretty equal when the car was a shed but as soon as it's sorted, Jenson is consistently the faster driver.

Either you think Rubinho is a crap driver and Schumacher not that special or the evidence suggests that if you rate Rubens as a driver, then Button is a level above?

[Garry Walker]

Well, I don't have the benefit of your psycic foresight :p : so all I can do is use the facts on the table.

We have seen the results of RB and MS. Schumacher was a better driver but Rubens was not far off and bested him on quite a few occassions.

In the Honda, they were pretty equal when the car was a shed but as soon as it's sorted, Jenson is consistently the faster driver.

Either you think Rubinho is a crap driver and Schumacher not that special or the evidence suggests that if you rate Rubens as a driver, then Button is a level above?

Schumacher was quite many levels above Rubens at his peak.
Once rubens gets rid of the understeer problems he is having, he will be matching and beating Button again.

[Knock-on]

Schumacher was quite many levels above Rubens at his peak.
Once rubens gets rid of the understeer problems he is having, he will be matching and beating Button again.

I'm not saying that Button will beat Rubens every time but over a season, I think you will see Button coming out on top. Time will tell.

[Mark]

As I said, it is only an idea... Anyways there was no point in restarting the race for 4 laps under the SC. What was the purpose? create an accident? entertaining the fans?? no way.

I stand by my argument, the only reason the had to restart the race was to cover the 75% and give full points, otherwise I can not understand why they were risking an accident in such conditions for a show that the funs are not going to enjoy (who likes to see cars behind the SC for 9 laps???)

Sorry, but you are applying common sense to the situation, please stop :s . The FIA are officials who follow rules and regulations, and they're obligation is to run the race if conditions at all allow. And if that means running for 4 laps before the time limit, that's what they will do.

[ShiftingGears]

I'm not saying that Button will beat Rubens every time but over a season, I think you will see Button coming out on top. Time will tell.

I have to say I expect Button to beat Barrichello. But both have been far from spectacular this year.

[Knock-on]

I have to say I expect Button to beat Barrichello. But both have been far from spectacular this year.

:confused:

I may be missing the joke here but what more can Button do apart from win races?

[ShiftingGears]

:confused:

I may be missing the joke here but what more can Button do apart from win races?

Win them convincingly.

[jens]

:confused:

I may be missing the joke here but what more can Button do apart from win races?

This is exactly the problem here. Before rating Button accurately we must wait until other teams have caught up with Brawn, if they do it at all. At the moment it's difficult to rate, how well Button is driving, due to the car advantage. Hell, even Piquet or Nakajima would win in that car, if they kept it on the road.

Brawn's pace is underrated and it seems they haven't shown all of their cards yet - so catching them would prove to be difficult. Remember the beginning of the Malaysian GP. Button got stuck behind Alonso for a moment, while Rosberg and Trulli were pulling away. After Button passed Alonso (relatively easily considering clear car advantage and despite KERS disadvantage), he was immediately behind Trulli, despite having been behind by a few seconds. This moment proved to me clearly that BGP is untouchable. And from there on JB sat there patiently until pitstops.

About comparison with Barrichello. Based on the first two race weekends one should say that the Brazilian was clearly underperforming (and maybe one suggests he is past his prime), unless you believe Button is the greatest driver of all times, because his advantage over RB was bigger than Schumacher himself often had.

But all in all, it's not a knock on Button. ;) He is doing, what he needs to be doing - winning races. Regardless of car advantage. Just that we can't really rate him yet.

[samuratt]

The FIA are officials who follow rules and regulations,

lol

Does what your common sense tells you?? ;)

[F1boat]

We will wait and see. IMO this year will show, if FIA does not ruin Brawn, whether Jenson or Rubens are special or not. For me Rubens is not, I saw him in Ferrari and I am not impressed. I liked Jenson a lot in 2004, now I hope that he will be able to prove himself.

[SGWilko]

I have to say I expect Button to beat Barrichello. But both have been far from spectacular this year.

Yes, sack'em both - useless journeymen.....

How dare Button come first while being sympathetic to a car that has had little testing...... :eek:

[Knock-on]

Win them convincingly.

:laugh:

He has built up leads in both races but finished behind a SC. Perhaps he should have overtaken that as well ;)

The BGP001 is a strong car. How much it is ahead of the competition is subjective but the only comparrison we can give is against team mates.

RB has raced with the best and although hampered slightly by team orders, has still shown very strong pace.

Now he is free to race, he is being shown a clean pair of heels by Jenson who some people consider is nothing special.

Personally, I think Lewis is a better driver than JB but not by that much. I have followed JB for a long time now and think he is showing just how good he is. If people choose to write this off as all being down to the car, then that's their opinion but mine is different :D