Toyota....

[Sonic]

......for the titles?

Brawn and Williams are independent and as such will probably struggle to match the development pace of the big boys. So when Ferrari et all bolt on their fandango diffusers at some point in the european season you'd expect to see those independents slip into the pack.

But Toyota already have the head start on the swish aero and as they showed last year they can certainly maintain the development race all season, does this make them title winners in waiting??

[christophulus]

I'd say it's easier to make a decision on that when we see what the "big teams" turn up to Spain with. If McLaren, Ferrari, especially BMW can stick on a super-diffuser and grab half a second, like they're suggesting (I'm sceptical) then no, it'll be a struggle.

Alternatively, if due to the testing ban the other teams can't catch up fast enough, I certainly don't see any reason they can't be at the sharp end come the end of the year. Title winners? I still think Ferrari or BMW will beat them to it..

[jens]

I was talking Toyota up already throughout winter testing, shame rarely anyone believed me. Since 2007 Toyota has been making constant progress, they have finally found the right approach and have been making right decisions to really become a serious F1 team. The modest but adamant Japanese team is there to make a breakthrough despite everyone's disbelief. I love nothing more than when firm prejucides get proven wrong - this is how life on this planet keeps improving, when new opportunites are discovered. Rarely anyone believed that Toyota with its own 'way' can ever succeed in Formula One. They are there to believe in themselves and prove others wrong!

I don't know about 2009 titles, but so far, so good. ;) 11 points in the bag plus decent grid positions for Malaysian GP.

As for diffusers, I think their effect is overrated. Of course it's hard to know for sure (as long as we haven't seen any other teams turning up with it), but BGP001 and TF109 are fundamentally good cars. Kubica and Räikkönen (from highly rated BMW and Ferrari teams) lost by more than 0,5 secs in Q2 to Button and Trulli. Wasn't there some suggestions like the DDD may give up to half a second per lap? Without that advantage JB and JT would still have been on the front row!

[Bagwan]

I was talking Toyota up already throughout winter testing, shame rarely anyone believed me. Since 2007 Toyota has been making constant progress, they have finally found the right approach and have been making right decisions to really become a serious F1 team. The modest but adamant Japanese team is there to make a breakthrough despite everyone's disbelief. I love nothing more than when firm prejucides get proven wrong - this is how life on this planet keeps improving, when new opportunites are discovered. Rarely anyone believed that Toyota with its own 'way' can ever succeed in Formula One. They are there to believe in themselves and prove others wrong!

I don't know about 2009 titles, but so far, so good. ;) 11 points in the bag plus decent grid positions for Malaysian GP.

As for diffusers, I think their effect is overrated. Of course it's hard to know for sure (as long as we haven't seen any other teams turning up with it), but BGP001 and TF109 are fundamentally good cars. Kubica and Räikkönen (from highly rated BMW and Ferrari teams) lost by more than 0,5 secs in Q2 to Button and Trulli. Wasn't there some suggestions like the DDD may give up to half a second per lap? Without that advantage JB and JT would still have been on the front row!


Live it up , Jens . You deserve it , for being such a die hard , loyal fan .

You took the lumps , now drink the champagne !

It was your boy Jarno that knew the rules , and got that trophy .
Not just that , but from pit lane no less .

They've got a great car , and it's nice to see , finally .

[DexDexter]

I was talking Toyota up already throughout winter testing, shame rarely anyone believed me. Since 2007 Toyota has been making constant progress, they have finally found the right approach and have been making right decisions to really become a serious F1 team. The modest but adamant Japanese team is there to make a breakthrough despite everyone's disbelief. I love nothing more than when firm prejucides get proven wrong - this is how life on this planet keeps improving, when new opportunites are discovered. Rarely anyone believed that Toyota with its own 'way' can ever succeed in Formula One. They are there to believe in themselves and prove others wrong!

I don't know about 2009 titles, but so far, so good. ;) 11 points in the bag plus decent grid positions for Malaysian GP.

As for diffusers, I think their effect is overrated. Of course it's hard to know for sure (as long as we haven't seen any other teams turning up with it), but BGP001 and TF109 are fundamentally good cars. Kubica and Räikkönen (from highly rated BMW and Ferrari teams) lost by more than 0,5 secs in Q2 to Button and Trulli. Wasn't there some suggestions like the DDD may give up to half a second per lap? Without that advantage JB and JT would still have been on the front row!

I was one of the people who didn't believe in Toyota and I admit I was wrong and you were right :) . However, I don't think they are going to be in the title hunt, their driver line-up just isn't strong enough.

[jens]

I was one of the people who didn't believe in Toyota and I admit I was wrong and you were right :) . However, I don't think they are going to be in the title hunt, their driver line-up just isn't strong enough.

Toyota drivers are another ones, who need to prove their critics wrong. :p : I for one don't think that Toyota's line-up is any inferior than for example Brawn's, but many seems confident that Button and maybe Barrichello are major title threats this year. Why not Jarno and Timo in that case?

To be more precise, I don't think Toyota's line-up is far from being one of the best line-ups in F1. If you find that statement unreasonable, I might expand it. :)

[markabilly]

Ask me after Trulli wins tomorrow.....unless he gets dq for lapping Lewis

[woody2goody]

In answer to the question, it's very possible. They have a solid, fresh, but not raw star in the hard charging Timo Glock, and the experienced, cool headed, qualifying artist Jarno Trulli - I think they have a serious chance.

There's always been a part of me that has wanted Toyota to do well, and now I think they've found the right balance with the car and the drivers which suits them.

If you remember, Jarno qualified I think on the front row in Malaysia 2005, and finished second, so he can definitely win today.

Will he? I doubt it though. Button is very quick and heavier than the chasing pack, and even though I think Jarno will push him hard, you can never count out Rosberg, Webber, and definitely Barrichello if he gets a good start.

If it rains I think Toyota will struggle, going on history, but you never know they may have fixed their usually troublesome car in the rain.

[Tazio]

Ask me after Trulli wins tomorrow.....unless he gets dq for lapping LewisTalk to me after Rubens passes him on the last corner of the last lap for a podium.
Remember you heard it here :p :

[woody2goody]

Talk to me after Rubens passes him on the last corner of the last lap for a podium.
Remember you heard it here :p :

Harsh ;)

[Tazio]

Harsh ;) Not any more harsh than when it happened at Magny-Cours 2004
:rotflmao:


PrBoA1X5PpQ

[woody2goody]

Not any more harsh than when it happened at Magny-Cours 2004
:rotflmao:

As a Renault fan and a Trulli fan I've almost got my head in my hands just thinking about that lol! :D

He said he got his revenge last year in France though. Good on him :)

[ozrevhead]

Talk to me after Rubens passes him on the last corner of the last lap for a podium.
Remember you heard it here :p :
Not before taking out a few cars ;)

[F1boat]

IMO BMW will win the titles, but we have to wait and see.

[52Paddy]

An important factor that Toyota need to watch out for is not to make their current form plateau. Personally myself, I reckon BMW, Renault, Williams and Red Bull will excel and improve further throughout the year. I'm yet to be convinced about Ferrari and McLaren, but these are really just my own hunches. Brawn need to be careful of this mass threat too. I think if Toyota keep up their current form,and then keep applying that extra edge as the development moves on, then they could well be in the hunt for the title. But only as much as their rivals. I don't see them possessing any distinct advantage over every team, but so far they're keeping themselves well in contention.

[jens]

Live it up , Jens . You deserve it , for being such a die hard , loyal fan .

You took the lumps , now drink the champagne !

It was your boy Jarno that knew the rules , and got that trophy .
Not just that , but from pit lane no less .

They've got a great car , and it's nice to see , finally .

Thanks, mate. :)
For me it's not really exciting to start cheering for someone at the front, but to choose someone from the bottom. Not to take an 'established' team, but to start following a new team, growing up together with them and following all of their steps in trying to establish themselves. ToyotaF1 ticks the box in these areas. Unlike many others they have very little racing heritage and are on course of creating one. It wasn't before 1996 as an engine supplier in CART they really started participating in notable racing series, having had WRC as their main motorsport activity before.

As for being loyal, hard times have only strengthened the support, making more compassionate. But times have been hard. I think the year of 2007 was the most difficult one of all. Back then, I must admit, it was impossible, just plain impossible to keep belief in a future breakthrough. I was fond of alternative options, how to minimise losses and come out with at least some kind of dignity - by investing into Williams and to become a front-runner at least as an engine supplier. I think this was the time, when besides the team itself almost no-one else believed in them. But it was the same 2007, when suddenly something clicked at Cologne - they finally made right conclusions of shortcomings and made decisions, how to start moving forward. At that time it wasn't apparent and for an outside observer they seemed lost.

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125800&highlight=Toyota
A bit more than a year ago after 2008 Malaysian Grand Prix I brought out reasons for Toyota's rise. Those explanations are in my view appropriate also now. Back then that 4th place in that GP probably couldn't have meant much to a casual observer, but it meant a lot for me. It was like a lightning from a clear sky. It was the first sign of Toyota's commitment to break clear of the midfield and start troubling established top teams. And that sudden 'shine' came from almost nowhere, it was unexpected.

As long as results improve, there is every reason to be satisfied. Today's race marked another improvement for the team. This was Toyota' best ever wet weather performance by a mile. P3 and P4, while in the past they have never managed to get above P6 in rain. Also the strategy at least for Glock was great. It's quite incredible to see so much maturity in the team, who a few years ago reminded more of the... well yes, current Ferrari team if you'd like a comparison...

Finally. I'm not a betting man at all, but I may unveil that before the start of the season I just couldn't resist the very enticing odds on Toyota's WCC title... I took a huge gamble, but based on their winter testing performance, their general improvement and transformation as a team created belief that they are going to perform way above the expectations of most people. At the moment it looks like the title might not be an impossible goal at all. :)

[Sonic]

I was talking Toyota up already throughout winter testing, shame rarely anyone believed me. Since 2007 Toyota has been making constant progress, they have finally found the right approach and have been making right decisions to really become a serious F1 team. The modest but adamant Japanese team is there to make a breakthrough despite everyone's disbelief. I love nothing more than when firm prejucides get proven wrong - this is how life on this planet keeps improving, when new opportunites are discovered. Rarely anyone believed that Toyota with its own 'way' can ever succeed in Formula One. They are there to believe in themselves and prove others wrong!

May I hop on your bandwagon then? :p :

No seriously I have great affection for Toyota - when its bolted in the back of a Williams!

[jens]

May I hop on your bandwagon then? :p :

No seriously I have great affection for Toyota - when its bolted in the back of a Williams!

:up: I enjoy the co-operation between Toyota & Williams, which started from 2007, and I feel the legendary Grove team is worth a gratitude here. Toyota has certainly benefitted from the enormous experience of Williams and I think Williams is benefitting too, looking at their pace now. This may be a pure coincidence, but both have that radical diffuser... ;)

[veeten]

Where's pino? :look:

He would enjoy all the attention on Jarno. :)

[Rollo]

......for the titles?

Brawn and Williams are independent and as such will probably struggle to match the development pace of the big boys. So when Ferrari et all bolt on their fandango diffusers at some point in the european season you'd expect to see those independents slip into the pack.

Development of what?

There is an engine freeze currently on, so there's not really going to be any development there, and given that Ross Brawn is in charge, we're likely to see him innovate his way through the rules.

2 from 2 is a pretty foreboding sort of beginning for everyone else.

[Valve Bounce]

......for the titles?

Brawn and Williams are independent and as such will probably struggle to match the development pace of the big boys. So when Ferrari et all bolt on their fandango diffusers at some point in the european season you'd expect to see those independents slip into the pack.

But Toyota already have the head start on the swish aero and as they showed last year they can certainly maintain the development race all season, does this make them title winners in waiting??

Yeah!! but the Prawns have Brawn and bunsen!

[jens]

First ever front row for Toyota. :up: :up: :) Another milepost reached, another sign of improvement. For the first time ever Toyota is the car to beat in a Grand Prix weekend. Please-please bring that 1-2 from tomorrow's race to prove yourselves as a genuine top team!

[Roamy]

Hey where in the hell is Pino - He either over celebrated or is trying not to Jinx the race. But you know he has to be grinning like a jackass eating oats from a hairbrush

[UltimateDanGTR]

......for the titles?

Brawn and Williams are independent and as such will probably struggle to match the development pace of the big boys. So when Ferrari et all bolt on their fandango diffusers at some point in the european season you'd expect to see those independents slip into the pack.

But Toyota already have the head start on the swish aero and as they showed last year they can certainly maintain the development race all season, does this make them title winners in waiting??

You've forgotten one key ingredient in tht mix: Red Bull. I think If Brawn fail hold up development and as a result do not win, then I think Red Bull will edge it over Toyota. :)

[52Paddy]

Great performance from Toyota in qualifying today. :up:

I think Toyota have an advantage over Red Bull to be honest. What Red Bull gain in having rising star Vettel on board, they loose in Mark Webber's atrocious luck. And Vettel isn't exactly bulletproof just yet. Both Toyota drivers have driven consistently so far this year. Even if they don't always have the pace to match the Brawns or Red Bulls at times (NB: its hard to judge this from the first three races to be honest, given the circumstances,) they can certainly keep up with development and their drivers are experienced. If they get a win under their belt tomorrow, its another milestone and may urge them on further into the realms of success this season. They have a smashing car and a really solid package, the best they've had yet. Best of luck for tomorrow :roll:

[BDunnell]

I will be quite open about it and say I really hope a Toyota wins later today.

[nigelred5]

My guess, they'll screw up strategy

[gloomyDAY]

My guess, they'll screw up strategylmao!

I hope John Howett can keep it together and come through for Jarno.

[aryan]

I agree. I've never been a Toyota fan, but I love Jarno and think he is very underrated. I hope he wins tomorrow. I still remember how happy he was when he won in Monaco. That race... was fantastic.

[52Paddy]

Well, same story as past years. Great over a qualifying lap but lacking that extra edge in the race. Still, a good result nonetheless if not a disappointing one too.

[F1boat]

Well, same story as past years. Great over a qualifying lap but lacking that extra edge in the race. Still, a good result nonetheless if not a disappointing one too.

Yes... they are missing something.

[veeten]

While not much in wins, the podiums and two-car finishes are making up for it. Now only one point behind RBR-Renault, they have shown remarkable progress.

Once again, by reducing the cash, you see a team being more competitive by being tightly focused.

[pino]

Well, same story as past years. Great over a qualifying lap but lacking that extra edge in the race. Still, a good result nonetheless if not a disappointing one too.

Blame Team strategy, not the drivers ;)

[jens]

:( :(
It's quite incredible, but I have never felt dissatisfied with Trulli's such high placing in the past. Btw, this was Trulli's 10th podium in his F1 career! Anyway, I feel a better result could have been achieved, but oh why did they need to run such a long stint on harder tyres. Glock - what the hell, why so slow? And he was unlucky with strategy too, dropping right behind Kimi and Rubens after final stops...

Besides this I don't understand the weights. Trulli was almost as heavy as Brawns and Alonso, but pitted clearly earlier?! Toyota was so magnificently quick in the first stint that maybe they should have tried a three-stop strategy using hard tyres for a short last stint. But that's hindsight.

Hopefully TF109 will be as competitive in the future too - and in that case one day everything simply has to click together.

[52Paddy]

Blame Team strategy, not the drivers ;)

How about, blame Jarno, not Toyota :p :

But in all seriousness, their hard tyre stint did certainly affect their progress, as jens mentioned above. Clearly there are points during the race where the Toyota was flying. Jarno set the fastest lap. But they need to carry it consistently through. Not an easy job really, but something Toyota should be able to do now. They're becoming one of the 'big boys,' slowly but surely.

[Knock-on]

My guess, they'll screw up strategy


Good call :up: Bloody useless they were.

[Sonic]

Such a shame for the toyota team. A bad call by one or two people and the whole weekend goes up in smoke. The hard working mechanics and drivers deserved better. Always next race.

[jens]

But to take the situation from another angle of view - Toyota's standards have risen quite high if even P3 is deemed as a bitter disappointment. :D What must the likes of Ferrari, Renault and BMW feel then?

[Knock-on]

But to take the situation from another angle of view - Toyota's standards have risen quite high if even P3 is deemed as a bitter disappointment. :D What must the likes of Ferrari, Renault and BMW feel then?

That's a fair point also but considering the advantage they had at the start of the race, they must be gutted. Do you think they will be happy?

[Sonic]

Yeah good point. The bbc coverage kept banging on about how relieved ferrari would be to avoid the worst start in their history by scoring points today. Frankly that's BS, kimi, massa and the whole ferrari team would prefer to put their toes in a blender than endure the season they are having.

[veeten]

That's true, especially when you look at the standings for WDC...

Brawn-Mercedes: 50 points
STR-Renault: 27.5
Toyota: 26.5
McLaren-Mercedes: 13

Looks like Toyota have just as much a chance as STR does.

[jens]

That's a fair point also but considering the advantage they had at the start of the race, they must be gutted. Do you think they will be happy?

Surely not, because - as has been mentioned - standards are high now. :D

But nonetheless at the moment Toyota has a good chance of having their best ever season in F1 by beating the score of 88 from 2005. After four races they are 26,5-29 behind, but in 2005 they faded during the season, so the chances are well-existent.

[Knock-on]

Surely not, because - as has been mentioned - standards are high now. :D

But nonetheless at the moment Toyota has a good chance of having their best ever season in F1 by beating the score of 88 from 2005. After four races they are 26,5-29 behind, but in 2005 they faded during the season, so the chances are well-existent.


I think they are a much stronger, professional outfit these days and expect them to get stronger but will need to take their chances a bit better than they did today?

[aryan]

That's true, especially when you look at the standings for WDC...

Brawn-Mercedes: 50 points
STR-Renault: 27.5
Toyota: 26.5
McLaren-Mercedes: 13

Looks like Toyota have just as much a chance as STR does.


You meant RBR instead of STR. Right?

[nigelred5]

My guess, they'll screw up strategy


Good call :up: Bloody useless they were.

For some reason, I end up following their progress at the back of the field, and more often than not, i see them making bonehead strategy decisons that cost the drivers positions. The soft-soft-hard strategy made far more sense to me starting up front.

Start on softs, and run away from the field like a scalded cat the first two stints, then hang on to the margin on the last stint. They were banking on their drivers actually being able to pass in that last stint.

[stevie_gerrard]

Toyota looked very good this weekend, but once again race pace failed to come from their qualifying pace, and both suffered, especially glock, when they went onto the hard tyres. I do hope they can mount a serious challenge and get some wins on the board, but they are going to have to improve their race pace if they are going to challenge.

[veeten]

You meant RBR instead of STR. Right?
Yes, sorry about that. But, the rest of it still holds. :)

[gloomyDAY]

My guess, they'll screw up strategy


lmao!

I hope John Howett can keep it together and come through for Jarno.


Good call :up: Bloody useless they were.


For some reason, I end up following their progress at the back of the field, and more often than not, i see them making bonehead strategy decisons that cost the drivers positions. The soft-soft-hard strategy made far more sense to me starting up front.

Start on softs, and run away from the field like a scalded cat the first two stints, then hang on to the margin on the last stint. They were banking on their drivers actually being able to pass in that last stint.Wait, a Japanese team being conservative?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74909

Roll the dice next time. Could get you a win.

[gloomyDAY]

I've been thinking for a bit of time....

Should John Howett be replaced? I'm not saying fired altogether from the team, but moved to a different position on the team and promote someone who is more competent with strategy.

[jens]

I've been thinking for a bit of time....

Should John Howett be replaced? I'm not saying fired altogether from the team, but moved to a different position on the team and promote someone who is more competent with strategy.

John Howett is the team president, so I don't think he is directly involved with race strategies.

[gloomyDAY]

John Howett is the team president, so I don't think he is directly involved with race strategies.What's the hierarchy at Toyota?

Someone made that awful call on Sunday.

[gloomyDAY]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75773

Bump! Was Monaco really a one-off? Or was Monaco just the beginning?

John Howett (still not sure what his responsibilities entail) is ready to kick butt and take names at the Turkish Grand Prix. I just hope it gets really hot in Turkey over this coming weekend so Toyota can have a fighting chance.

[leopard]

Monaco is typical of race which usually gives team whose chassis work out with engine to make complete package more benefit. If this is the case they might need to fix this problem in due course.

This is good to know that Toyota is team with burst of optimism that having identified problems in slower speed race give them hardship on traction. Hope they can perform more development to either strengthen their prominence on fast corner or to make every endeavor for their weakness fade away, combination of both would be preferable though.

[jens]

Toyota had a similar slip in 2008 as well by the beginning of the European season, when their form dropped after flyaway races as the upgrades didn't function quite as expected and Trulli was complaining about setups. In 2008, however, Toyota made a comeback by the time of the French GP. Wonder, how long will it take this time?