The Ferrari thread !

[ioan]

I thought I'll start a thread in which Ferrari fans will be able to discuss their opinion about their favorite teams strong points but also shortcomings.

Those who are not Ferrari fans are not welcome to spit their venom around here!

This thread shouldn't be turned into my driver is better than your either, if you want to discuss it do it somewhere else!

It's all about the red team and their good and bad achievements, to be discussed by those who are interested to talk about it in a civilized manner!


Now that all this is clear all the tifosi are welcome to criticize and praise the doings of their favorite team. :)

[ioan]

Subject at hand today's poor qualifying position of both drivers but especially that of Massa.

Here's what he had to say:


FM: Well, actually I went straight away on a new set of softs. I didn't do a perfect lap, I did a reasonable lap, but not a perfect lap. I went wide on the first lap in Turn 14 and then I improved on the second timed lap by two tenths. The team thought it was enough to be inside the top 15 and maybe I thought as well, to be honest, because when I got back to the pits I was fourth.

I stayed in the top seven for a while, but then when I started to drop it was impossible to go out again because there was no time to do another lap.

FM: As I said, maybe the past is very fresh in our mind so everybody including myself because I didn't believe that I was going to drop out of the top 15. After the qualifying I thought maybe I could go to 11th or 12th, but not to 16th. I blame everybody. I blame me, I blame the engineers, I blame everybody that was working on the pit looking at the laptimes. It was a team mistake, including myself. But it was a huge wake up call that we need to use everything we have because every session is difficult.


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74241

So he's taking a part of the blame too, even if he didn't have the data about track temperatures and track grip improvement at hand, something the guys on the pit wall had access to but took the wrong decision.

[Valve Bounce]

One of the commentators said that Massa had already taken off his overalls well before the end of Q1. In this day of topsy turvy form, as we saw in Melbourne, with red Bull, Brawn, Toyota, Williams, and every other team except Force India capable of fast times, that was one helluva mistake.

I really think the word "blame" is too harsh here because that sort of attitude doesn't help the team to pull together. I think the word "mistake" is more appropriate, because mistakes can be corrected.

P.S. My favorite team Super Aguri no longer exists, so I hope you will forgive me for entering your domain.

[ioan]

You're welcome Valve, any of those who have no favorite team and can keep the discussion civilized and on the topic of the thread are welcome.

You are right, and I think that 90% of the die hard F1 fans and commentators saw this coming, only the Ferrari strategist missed out on it until it was to late.

As you say, we already saw it in Melbourne, where the top 15 were separated by around 1 second, that the field is very tight and that with the track conditions improving you can go from 1st to last in a couple of minutes.

Not to mention that with just a bit more than 3 minutes to go the BMW drivers were preparing for their first attempt and shouldn't have been discarded given how the times were tumbling.

Even more disappointing was that the Ferrari drivers were out of their cars and the cars were not ready for a last attempt, just in case.

Ferrari need to change the guy who's in charge of the strategy and get a real good chess player in his place, someone who's able to think eleventy moves in advance and be prepared for all any events that might happen.
Luca Baldisseri is obviously not up to scratch in F1 strategy and for sure not in chess either.

[Dave B]

I have no intention of spoiling your love-fest, but for the avoidance of doubt, if somebody started a McLaren fans only thread would you commit to keeping negative comments out of it?

[Psycho!]

The whole story is the diffusers!They must be banned!In such a case not only there is a possibility for result changes,but those teams will have to make changes to their cars...That way Ferrari will be again in the front row...I don't want to think that the opposite will happen!So,my question:What is the propability (percent if possible) that diffusers are banned???(I know that this question is a little irrelevant with what you are talking about now,but that's what makes me more worried as a Ferrari fan!)

[Tazio]

I have no intention of spoiling your love-fest, but for the avoidance of doubt, if somebody started a McLaren fans only thread would you commit to keeping negative comments out of it?
I would!
Having said that, it is a dodgy effort to have exclusive threads!
I tried to have one that was expressly for the Sensible Seven, and it had more than it's share of interlopers.
With deepest regrets to Ioan I suggest that this is a useless excercise!

[SGWilko]

I have no beef against Ferrari, and wish them every success this year.

I am not a particular fan of Ferrari - was when Mansell was in the team.....

I am a fan of Stefano. Very amenable, and not, IMO, the slightest up himself like some previous inhabitants of that job.

As for their shortcomings. Well, Kimi did OK didn't he? That clearly is where the car is at the moment.

Not sure where the blame lies with Massa's incident though. I suspect that all the KERS teams have heat dissipation issues this weekend, and this could be a factor....

[markabilly]

Massa
says it all:
"I blame everybody. I blame me, I blame the engineers, I blame everybody that was working on the pit looking at the laptimes. It was a team mistake..."

I know where the solutions are, but those three individuals are no longer in
charge.......

Sic transit gloria

[ioan]

I have no intention of spoiling your love-fest, but for the avoidance of doubt, if somebody started a McLaren fans only thread would you commit to keeping negative comments out of it?

Yes, I do.

This thread' point isn't to be a "love fest", it's all about having a thread where Ferrari fans can interact, where they can express their good or bad feeling about the team they support, without having to put up with all the trash from other forum members.

[ioan]

I would!
Having said that, it is a dodgy effort to have exclusive threads!
I tried to have one that was expressly for the Sensible Seven, and it had more than it's share of interlopers.
With deepest regrets to Ioan I suggest that this is a useless excercise!

It may be useless but it depends only on the willingness of forum members to show how civilized they are.

[goodf1fun]

our lovely team, become a joke this days :( i miss schummi era...

[Sonic]

Those who are not Ferrari fans are not welcome to spit their venom around here!

I know when I'm not wanted *sniff* :p :

[markabilly]

Even more disappointing was that the Ferrari drivers were out of their cars and the cars were not ready for a last attempt, just in case.

.

At least they had some fuel in the cars when they did go out, unlike the time last year or the year before, Massa went out to Q, and ran out of gas just at pit exit.....

[rickos]

OK, fellow Ferrari fans, what is the attire of the day?

May I suggest:

http://pro.corbis.com/images/42-15975116.jpg?size=67&uid=%7B42A6868E-62E7-4174-A441-EFDFC95B94F8%7D

[mstillhere]

Massa
says it all:
"I blame everybody. I blame me, I blame the engineers, I blame everybody that was working on the pit looking at the laptimes. It was a team mistake..."

I know where the solutions are, but those three individuals are no longer in
charge.......

Sic transit gloria

I wonder how thick the Ferrari's excuses book must be? So far I think we are on page 10,000?? When is it that they are going to pull the plug and just stop making fools of themselves?????

[Sonic]

OK, fellow Ferrari fans, what is the attire of the day?

May I suggest:

http://pro.corbis.com/images/42-15975116.jpg?size=67&uid=%7B42A6868E-62E7-4174-A441-EFDFC95B94F8%7D

LOL!!!

[F1boat]

I am not a hardliner for any team, but I respect Ferrari tremendously. I think that the big problem of the team is the lack of proper organization. It seems that the car works well only when it is hot - like last year, or the year before. I don't know why this is not fixed yet. IMO in an ideal world Ferrari would be able to fight for podiums, if not wins. But the current team is in trouble when the situation is unexpected, when conditions are changing.
I remember that last year I read an article in which a Speed TV commentator said that the current Ferrari staff are all very nice, very lovely people, unlike the era of Todt and Ross Brawn, in which they were like the Empire from "Star Wars". I do not know if I am right but maybe this grim attitude is better for extremely competitive sport like Formula One.

[ioan]

I see a few very unexpected Ferrari fans showed up! :p :

[jens]

I'm not sure about my current feeling towards Ferrari, but I hope I can comment here. :D Anyway, I'm confident one day they will be back and the great results and comeback will taste sweeter then! Some lows are needed to get the "freshness" of success back.

[ioan]

Welcome Jens!
They'll be back the day they get their track strategy right. The car is not as bad as some people hope it is and I think that tomorrow it will show.

[MrJan]

I've never minded the team particularly, although some of the fans wind me up :p :

Ferrari are currently suffering from a long time of being succesful, everyone seems to think of them as underacheiving at the minute but in reality they are just having a lean spell like most teams go through.

Personally I think that the drivers are a touch mediocre (especially after having had MS for so many years), Kimi is obviously a talent but seems to have been making silly mistakes and although i like Massa I really don't think that he is cut from the same cloth as the F1 greats. TBH I feel that Alonso and Hamilton are extremely good and also believe Kubica has potential (probably a good driver for Ferrari to consider in the future).

I still believe that Ferrari will take the manufacturers title this season, they have 2 strong drivers (one of the main reasons McLaren lost out last year was because of Heikki) and still a reasonable car. And as Mika always used to say "it's long way to go"

[woody2goody]

Regarding Massa's poor qualifying, to be fair to him, when everyone (including the drivers) are watching Q1, it always seems like someone is safe, and then suddenly they are not.

Massa was an unfortunate victim of that. However, what bothers me is this:

Ferrari sent him out early in case it rained. Fair enough, good from Ferrari. he puts a good time in with the soft tyres.

However, when it became apparent that it wasn't raining with about 5 mins to go, what was stopping them from sending him out again? They were fast enough to escape Q1, but played it far too cool. Now, unfortunately, we won't probably see Massa come into play as I think everyone (Ferrari fans or not) had hoped.

I predicted him to finish 6th, and he has his work cut out now 'for sure' ;)

[cosmicpanda]

So, Massa is fueled very long for tomorrow. They must be hoping for something similar to what Piquet managed at Hockenheim last year.

[markabilly]

So, Massa is fueled very long for tomorrow. They must be hoping for something similar to what Piquet managed at Hockenheim last year.
No

My bet is they fueled him up for all three rounds of Q"ing and then forgot to take it out before the weigh in as in opps :eek:

[ioan]

Nothing good to add about their performance after the race either.
Another strategy blunder happened.
hopefully they've got someone who can use their strategy software better than Baldisseri, someone who is more analytical than this failed poker player who calls himself a strategist.

They're lucky that the race was stopped before 75% of it was run and thus the amount of points lost out is only 50% of what it could have been.

[Mjfan12]

these new strategists are terrible. So many mistakes which todt and brawn did not let happen.

Luca needs to fire all the management and hire better people.

[F1boat]

these new strategists are terrible. So many mistakes which todt and brawn did not let happen.

Luca needs to fire all the management and hire better people.

Sounds good, but i don't know when he can find good strategist... they are already hired...

[markabilly]

these new strategists are terrible. So many mistakes which todt and brawn did not let happen.

Luca needs to fire all the management and hire better people.
Luca just needs to fire himself, since the problem starts with him....

[F1boat]

Luca just needs to fire himself, since the problem starts with him....

Remember that there was a funny guy in this forum, one, who predicted this after Monza 2006. He got banned for some reason and I was surprised, because he seemed to be a reasonable band. He said that Luca and Pierro Lardi were getting rid of the dream teams, because they wanted more Italian control and it will backfire on them, because Lardi is responsible for the chaos in the 90-ies. Back then it seemed a weird theory.
But now I remembered that. What do you think?

[markabilly]

Remember that there was a funny guy in this forum, one, who predicted this after Monza 2006. He got banned for some reason and I was surprised, because he seemed to be a reasonable band. He said that Luca and Pierro Lardi were getting rid of the dream teams, because they wanted more Italian control and it will backfire on them, because Lardi is responsible for the chaos in the 90-ies. Back then it seemed a weird theory.
But now I remembered that. What do you think?
BINGO!

(what we old men and old ladies do in the usa, down at the local bingo hall, whenver there is a winning number)
i wonder who that was who said all that....(but if you ain't been banned at least once around here it is because your posts are boring and lack humor...)

[airshifter]

Nothing good to add about their performance after the race either.
Another strategy blunder happened.
hopefully they've got someone who can use their strategy software better than Baldisseri, someone who is more analytical than this failed poker player who calls himself a strategist.

They're lucky that the race was stopped before 75% of it was run and thus the amount of points lost out is only 50% of what it could have been.

Believe it or not Ioan, I consider myself on the very fringe of being tifosi. :)

I have always had great respect for Ferrari in both good and bad times, though I admit their dominance in recent years past made the sport boring for a while.


I thought I was going to lose my mind today when they put Kimi on full wets. Even as they were doing it I was thinking better to make him wait and run back for intermediates or dry tires again!

But, they will rise again. Massa on that podium for the final victory last year was the energy they need to bring back.

[ioan]

Believe it or not Ioan, I consider myself on the very fringe of being tifosi. :)

I have always had great respect for Ferrari in both good and bad times, though I admit their dominance in recent years past made the sport boring for a while.


I thought I was going to lose my mind today when they put Kimi on full wets. Even as they were doing it I was thinking better to make him wait and run back for intermediates or dry tires again!

But, they will rise again. Massa on that podium for the final victory last year was the energy they need to bring back.

As I said, unexpected faces around here, but it makes me happy to see this. :)

IMO the team's management is failing under pressure again. But it's only their own fault that they are in this position again.
They need a better strategists, there is no question about that. Luca Baldisseri is trying to guess the future instead of going with what he sees on track.

Every lap Kimi did on full wets with a dry track lost him enough time for a pit stop. The maths were very simple, even if the rain would have come one lap later it would have been better to keep him on slicks and than pit again for wets.

This was worse than amateurish.

[ioan]

I'm impressed with the drivers being able to brush the team's errors away and even defend them:


HALF POINTS - It was a forgettable day for Massa as well. The Brazilian, ninth, tried to see the glass as "half" full, in the true sense of the word. "We console ourselves with the fact that the others got half points and that it wasn't a normal race," explained the Brazilian. "With everything that happened you can make the right decisions or the wrong decisions. The heavy rain was due to come and we thought that we would put our wets on, but instead the rain came later and our tyres were ruined. I did a lap with the intermediates and the heavy rain started. That lost us the chance to get some points. Was it better to start a little further forward on the grid? Kimi who started further up also made a bad decision. In China? We'll start from zero, there will be a few small things that will improve the car a little. Brawn too good even in the rain? Yes."
CHANCE - Massa downplayed the team's mistakes: "With everything that happened during the race," Massa continued, "we could have made the right decision or the wrong one with the tyres. Looking at the forecast we decided to put the wets on hoping the rain would come quickly, instead it only rained a little and I ruined my tyres. Then I put the intermediates on but I did one lap and the heavy rain started... We lost a chance to get some points, even if only half, but we could have got something. Instead we got nothing."

http://english.gazzetta.it/Motor_sports/Primo_Piano/2009/04/05/parlanoferrari.shtml

PS: many thanks to pino for the link(s).

[ioan]

So, now that they know what needs to be done:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74324

they better start working hard, and if someone doesn't do the job as it should be done than it's time for the boot.

[555-04Q2]

Good to see this thread started again, thanks ioan :up:

Just a pity that Ferrari are c@cking up so badly at the moment :( Luca needs to kick some serious ar$e and fast.

[ioan]

Good to see this thread started again, thanks ioan :up:

I'd rather not have started it, but alas the circumstances imposed it.

Good to see you here! :)

[ioan]

Finally changes are being made:


Ferrari has announced a restructuring of its trackside operations in a bid to turn around its disastrous start to the season - with team manager Luca Baldisserri being switched to a factory-based role.

Following crisis talks at Maranello last week to discuss why the outfit has failed to score a point in the first two races of the year, its worst start to a campaign since 1992, the team has ramped up efforts to ensure it changes the situation as soon as possible.

As part of that bid to help improve the performance, the team has decided to set up a new Working Party to fast-track car improvements that are essential if Kimi Raikkonen and Felipe Massa are to start delivering the results needed to keep them in the title hunt.

This department will be headed by technical director Aldo Costa, with Baldisserri now handed responsibility for coordinating the factory efforts with trackside operations. Work will focus on all areas of car performance, including a double-decker diffuser if the concept is given the green light by the FIA International Court of Appeal this week.

The staff changes mean that Baldisserri will no longer attend races, with his role at the races now being taken by chief track engineer Chris Dyer.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74449

Let's hope they decided not to use dices and coin toss ever again during a race.

[ioan]

Looks like they are going from bad to worse.
We better set our expectations very low, and be happy if they finally score 1 point.

[555-04Q2]

Yeah, looks like it will be a tough year for the prancing horse. Probably land up 5th or 6th in the championship...

[ioan]

Yeah, looks like it will be a tough year for the prancing horse. Probably land up 5th or 6th in the championship...

Which makes me miss MS even more, he was able to get good results even with a dud like the 2005 Ferrari.

[555-04Q2]

Which makes me miss MS even more, he was able to get good results even with a dud like the 2005 Ferrari.

I miss not only MS, but the old Schumi-Brawn-Todt combination. They achieved so much together. They were such a dominant force!

Maybe Ferrari will start to build up a new era of success in the new decade, but they need to improve the management structure and the drivers combo for that to happen.

[F1boat]

Which makes me miss MS even more, he was able to get good results even with a dud like the 2005 Ferrari.

You are right, of course. Michael and his team was special even when the car was bad.

[ioan]

Looks like even getting in Q3 will be difficult tomorrow.
At least in the previous races they were fast in FP2, now they are slow even with that occasion.

The worse part is that apart a couple of tiny changes to the front wing I can't see anything new on the car since the first race. Are they working back in Maranello or they are holidaying with Dave Ryan in Bali?!

[555-04Q2]

Something is very wrong at Ferrari at the moment :( Hopefully the they will make Q3 at least :)

[aryan]

Yeah, looks like it will be a tough year for the prancing horse. Probably land up 5th or 6th in the championship...

I'm not a Ferrari fan (so sorry if I shouldn't be here) but I'm here to cheer you guys up. :)

Things will change. Ferrari is a great team. They seem to have made some bad decisions with their personnel, but they can learn from it. I think the F60 fundamentally has speed in it. It can be up there with the Red Bull and Toyota. If setup correctly.

[ioan]

I'm not a Ferrari fan (so sorry if I shouldn't be here) but I'm here to cheer you guys up. :)

Things will change. Ferrari is a great team. They seem to have made some bad decisions with their personnel, but they can learn from it. I think the F60 fundamentally has speed in it. It can be up there with the Red Bull and Toyota. If setup correctly.

That's a big IF cause it can make all the difference between being fast and being slow.

I don't know if the guys that were part of the testing team during the pre-season tests are in the racing team, but if they aren't than they should get them cause they were clearly better at getting the best out of the car than what we see now.

[ioan]

So, it seems that removing KERS was another mistake.
Not only it didn't improve handing but they also lost all the advantages it provides.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74535

Hopefully someone will be smart enough and install KERS overnight, but again I'm not holding my breath on this one.

So, it seems that removing KERS was another mistake.
Not only it didn't improve handing but they also lost all the advantages it provides.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74535

Hopefully someone will be smart enough and install KERS overnight, but again I'm not holding my breath on this one.

"Non conosca il loro culo dal loro gomito"

[ioan]

Pretty sad. It looks like they are doing things just in order not get bored, but without thinking about it first.

And I don 't buy it that it's a safety problem. They had 2 problems on Kimi's car in Malaysia, one of them due to the extremely heavy rain.
Who stops them from keeping KERS on board given that it doesn't influence the car's ballance and turn it off if it starts raining and they fear that the problem will resurface again.

[ioan]

Also I can't help but notice that while other teams are continuously improving their cars with all kind of new parts (like Mclaren's new diffuser) the Ferrari team only manages to bring invisible developments that doesn't seem to move them forward.

Radical problem need radical solutions not refining small detail of a useless solution.

A few years ago they would bring plenty of new parts for testing in order to improve things, now they barely dare to do something like if they are afraid not to make it worse.
Well, it can't get worse than no points at all, so they better pull their fingers out and start working hard.

[Shalafi]

Well, Kimi said after todays practice that "car isnt awful, but we are just not getting anywhere (Ferrari is just slow)."

It really seems very difficult at the moment. Im sure Ferrari will get much better during the season but it doesnt matter if they lose points to the leaders at this rate. Maybe they should already start to working with next years car if things dont improve quickly.

Well, it can't get worse than no points at all, so they better pull their fingers out and start working hard.

Ioan, my fellow tifosian, I fear it is worse than just not working hard enough at the moment.

Talentless, directionless fools can work their arses off but they will still be talentless and directionless....just tired as well.

The current situation is solely down to the very people who have produced this situation, so I have little faith that they can turn it around no matter how many hours they work.

[ioan]

Ioan, my fellow tifosian, I fear it is worse than just not working hard enough at the moment.

Talentless, directionless fools can work their arses off but they will still be talentless and directionless....just tired as well.

The current situation is solely down to the very people who have produced this situation, so I have little faith that they can turn it around no matter how many hours they work.

So why did they not keep Todt in better esteem?
I'm starting to be a bit worried about this all Italian team dream.

[Bagwan]

Kimi says :
“It would have been useful to run it on at least one car to understand the situation better .”

He's talking about KERS .

They are not talking like a team .

This isn't good .

[mstillhere]

Also I can't help but notice that while other teams are continuously improving their cars with all kind of new parts (like Mclaren's new diffuser) the Ferrari team only manages to bring invisible developments that doesn't seem to move them forward.

Radical problem need radical solutions not refining small detail of a useless solution.

A few years ago they would bring plenty of new parts for testing in order to improve things, now they barely dare to do something like if they are afraid not to make it worse.
Well, it can't get worse than no points at all, so they better pull their fingers out and start working hard.

Especially when you hear Briatore saying that they were able to improve their car performance over night by just putting pieces together with their hands
and a couple of file. That's very telling of Briatore's ability - and Alonso's as well for that matter - to turn a losing team into a winning team - kind of - with a low budget team very rapidly (nothing comparable to the big ones anyway).

[mstillhere]

It gets even better. Read this: http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090418173818.shtml. What a bunch of quitters. Renault able to improve their car overnight and these guys are already giving up after they kept in f........... everything up last year and this year and they getting ready to do the same for next year unless the whole team gets totally fired from the forst guys to the last - excluding the mechanics obviously and Monty.

[markabilly]

It gets even better. Read this: http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090418173818.shtml. What a bunch of quitters. Renault able to improve their car overnight and these guys are already giving up after they kept in f........... everything up last year and this year and they getting ready to do the same for next year unless the whole team gets totally fired from the forst guys to the last - excluding the mechanics obviously and Monty.

The title chase for 2009 was over at the end of 2006........it just took a long time for them to slide down to the bottom.....but do not worry, they still got a way to go before Force India starts whipping their tail, max style

[Dzeidzei]

Kimi says :
“It would have been useful to run it on at least one car to understand the situation better .”

He's talking about KERS .

They are not talking like a team .

This isn't good .

Kimi also critisized the team for running all the supersoft sets during quali. No fresh sets for the race, zero chance for any tactics, no KERS to overtake in the start, no nothing.

They´ll be happy to score any points today.

[ioan]

Kimi says :
“It would have been useful to run it on at least one car to understand the situation better .”

He's talking about KERS .

They are not talking like a team .

This isn't good .

Massa also was vocal about the lack of KERS during qualifying and race start.

It's good that the drivers are finally raising the voice in order to pressure the engineers.

What I do not understand is why, after it was obvious that taking KERS out didn't improve the balance of the car (according to both drivers and engineers) they didn't put it back on?!

It would have given them a couple of tenths in term of lap times and that would have mean that Massa would have made it into Q3 and Kimi would have got a better starting position, not to mention they would have had a much needed advantage at the start.

It bothers me that they manage to understand the situation but seem to take the wrong decisions.

So KERS is not 100% reliable, that doesn't mean that they can't use it for a couple flying laps during qualifying and for the start, and then just turn it off if they are so afraid of it.

Also Kimi is 100% right that they should have conducted a KERS vs no-KERS car comparison before taking a decision.

What is even more funny is that the drivers have a better view of what should be done than the engineers do.

[ioan]

The teams lack direction. They just run around themselves chasing their own tail instead of setting a direction to follow.

It's incredible that McLaren and especially Renault already have a working intermediate DD diffuser solution while Ferrari have nothing but empty words.

[ioan]

What disaster. Words are failing me, for now.

[gloomyDAY]

Vettel to Ferrari?

[Ranger]

Vettel to Ferrari?

Sure...but they'd still suck just as much as they do now.

Vettel to Ferrari?

Why would he want to do that?

[Ranger]

The teams lack direction. They just run around themselves chasing their own tail instead of setting a direction to follow.

It's incredible that McLaren and especially Renault already have a working intermediate DD diffuser solution while Ferrari have nothing but empty words.

Red Bull don't have a diffuser and they took a fairly dominant 1-2.

Ferrari have much bigger issues than just a diffuser. Starting with reliability.

[gloomyDAY]

Why would he want to do that?Well I'd be stupefied if Ferrari aren't able to mend their ways. Another German in scarlet? I'll take that!

[ioan]

Vettel to Ferrari?

He sure isn't stupid to do that, and RedBull will not give him up for any amount of money.

[ioan]

Red Bull don't have a diffuser and they took a fairly dominant 1-2.

Ferrari have much bigger issues than just a diffuser. Starting with reliability.

Maybe they should put Stepney on charge after all that's why he was not happy wit the team as he felt he had more rights than Domenicalli.
He obviously did a good job when in charge of the QC department.

[superocean]

What's the problem with Massa today? kimi also had engine issues too. WTF is going on with the Reds? It's like they are Force India or something. Taking big gambles when they shouldn't.
I'd like to see someone take the lead and keep the team consistent and improve reliability and finish races in the point. this is a total regress of a race not progress.

What's the problem with Massa today?

To be fair, Massa was driving pretty bloody well today until the car switched off.

[ioan]

Solution?
Bye bye Stefano, welcome back Jean!

Not gonna happen though. :(

[DexDexter]

I don't know whether I'm allowed to post here since I don't hate Mclaren :) . Anyway, Ferrari is a total mess, they've had about 4 technical problems out of possible six, the car is slow, the strategies are not working. I think the drivers are the only piece of the puzzle that is basically ok, they are the same guys that brought Ferrari 2 consecutive championships. Domenicali must go now...bring on anybody, someone outside Italy as team manager, bring Byrne back full-time. Do something!

[ioan]

The one positive aspect today was that Massa was doing great in the wet, clearly better than what the car's level is, so he's got the will to fight and the team should do their best to give him what he needs to show his skills.

[philipbain]

Its great to see that Ferrari are back, the proper, tempremental, overly political, very italian, underperforming Ferrari I knew as a child (thinking late 80s to early 90s here), not the rather un-italian ruthlessly efficient Anglo-French-German alliance of the Schumacher era which whilst effective wasnt what I would consider Ferrari to be about. Long may it continue (though due to lack of results I doubt that both Ferrari or Ferrari's fans will see it quite the same way as I!).

[superocean]

Massa's drive in the rain was good but too early to call it great. he's no MSC or Vettle. anyone can have a good day or bad day, given that Hammy had so many issues in the rain Massa needs to be good consistently in the rain for me to believe he can drive in the rain.
This mess is really getting on my nerves, i don't think i am enjoying the races as much.

[superocean]

Its great to see that Ferrari are back, the proper, tempremental, overly political, very italian, underperforming Ferrari I knew as a child (thinking late 80s to early 90s here), not the rather un-italian ruthlessly efficient Anglo-French-German alliance of the Schumacher era which whilst effective wasnt what I would consider Ferrari to be about. Long may it continue (though due to lack of results I doubt that both Ferrari or Ferrari's fans will see it quite the same way as I!).
does Fan mean something else in Britain? feel the need to Troll?

[philipbain]

does Fan mean something else in Britain? feel the need to Troll?

Absolutely not, i'm a fan of proper, true, old school Ferrari, not the b@$tardised version of the mid 90s Benetton team that they were for far too long, I loved the passionately political mess that they were in the early 90s, gave the team loads of character and in spite of this they very nearly won the 1990 championship!

[ioan]

Its great to see that Ferrari are back, the proper, tempremental, overly political, very italian, underperforming Ferrari I knew as a child (thinking late 80s to early 90s here), not the rather un-italian ruthlessly efficient Anglo-French-German alliance of the Schumacher era which whilst effective wasnt what I would consider Ferrari to be about. Long may it continue (though due to lack of results I doubt that both Ferrari or Ferrari's fans will see it quite the same way as I!).

Bugger off. And learn to read next time you visit a forum.

Absolutely not, i'm a fan of proper, true, old school Ferrari, not the b@$tardised version of the mid 90s Benetton team that they were for far too long, I loved the passionately political mess that they were in the early 90s, gave the team loads of character and in spite of this they very nearly won the 1990 championship!

True, they did very nearly win it...until Mclaren cheated them out of it.

But, believe me, being a Ferrari fan was no fun for most of the late 80's/early 90's. Seeing it collapse back into farce is no fun.

[ioan]

Absolutely not, i'm a fan of proper, true, old school Ferrari, not the b@$tardised version of the mid 90s Benetton team that they were for far too long, I loved the passionately political mess that they were in the early 90s, gave the team loads of character and in spite of this they very nearly won the 1990 championship!

As I said, bugger off.

[ioan]

Absolutely not, i'm a fan of proper, true, old school Ferrari, not the b@$tardised version of the mid 90s Benetton team that they were for far too long, I loved the passionately political mess that they were in the early 90s, gave the team loads of character and in spite of this they very nearly won the 1990 championship!

As I said, bugger off.
You're free to start your Ferrari bashing thread, just leave us have a grown up discussion, before I lose my manners.

[ioan]

True, they did very nearly win it...until Mclaren cheated them out of it.

But, believe me, being a Ferrari fan was no fun for most of the late 80's/early 90's. Seeing it collapse back into farce is no fun.

Yam, judging from this members posting history he's never been and never will be a Ferrari fan, his a RD and McLaren fanatic.

[jens]

In a strange way all this that can be witnessed now, has been so expected. Already in 2004, during Ferrari's total domination, if I had thought, where would Ferrari be in five years' time, and had known Team MS is going to depart in a few years' time (there were whispers about it already back then), the immediate answer would have been midfield. And now here they are - welcome!

One day the Prancing Horse will be back at the sharp end, but before this major changes have to take place in the team - if and when are they going to happen, is another matter and unknown at the moment. What is puzzling me a bit is that Ferrari - like also BMW - looked like a major force throughout the whole winter testing, which creates question - what went wrong? Were they showboating? Archrival McLaren, who seemed in way bigger trouble, is already showing signs of recovering - not only are they ahead in WCC, but also the pace of the car seems to be at least on par with Ferrari by now. Hard to tell, how much of an improvement may DDD give Ferrari, but I have doubts F60 will become the car to beat in any phase of this season.

Hard to tell, how much of an improvement may DDD give Ferrari, but I have doubts F60 will become the car to beat in any phase of this season.

The F60 was the first car to be built after the "Dream Team" concepts (the F2007 & F2008 were just developments of the Byrne/Brawn/Todt/Schumacher cars.

And that is the problem, and that is why it doesn't bode well for the near future.

The F60 is an under-thought car. There is no apparent design concept to it. Look at the Brawn, the Red Bull...hell, even the Renault & Mclaren are fresh concepts for new regulations.

The F60 isn't. It looks pretty much like an F2008 with a big front wing and a small rear wing...as if the new design team hasn't got it's own thoughts. A design team incapable of fresh thoughts and developing a new concept will never do anything than produce average cars.

[Garry Walker]

The F60 was the first car to be built after the "Dream Team" concepts (the F2007 & F2008 were just developments of the Byrne/Brawn/Todt/Schumacher cars.

And that is the problem, and that is why it doesn't bode well for the near future.

The F60 is an under-thought car. There is no apparent design concept to it. Look at the Brawn, the Red Bull...hell, even the Renault & Mclaren are fresh concepts for new regulations.

The F60 isn't. It looks pretty much like an F2008 with a big front wing and a small rear wing...as if the new design team hasn't got it's own thoughts. A design team incapable of fresh thoughts and developing a new concept will never do anything than produce average cars.
It should also be noted that F60 wasnt developed at all during the winter testing. Other cars were changed a lot, new parts coming in all the time, visible changes, but Ferrari didnt seem to get any new parts. I think people within Ferrari were a bit overconfident with the design of the car, but on the other hand, if that was so, why are we having so many reliability issues?

[555-04Q2]

Cant believe it. Another race...another dissapointing result :(

Does anyone know exactly what happened to Massa's car :?:

[jas123f1]

The F60 was the first car to be built after the "Dream Team" concepts (the F2007 & F2008 were just developments of the Byrne/Brawn/Todt/Schumacher cars.

And that is the problem, and that is why it doesn't bode well for the near future.

The F60 is an under-thought car. There is no apparent design concept to it. Look at the Brawn, the Red Bull...hell, even the Renault & Mclaren are fresh concepts for new regulations.

The F60 isn't. It looks pretty much like an F2008 with a big front wing and a small rear wing...as if the new design team hasn't got it's own thoughts. A design team incapable of fresh thoughts and developing a new concept will never do anything than produce average cars.

Yes - that's the point - after that “dream team” time the team doesn't work on the same way any more.
With Schumacher as driver whole team was working to him - which made it of course easier – but after that Schumacher retired and Kimi game to the team - were Massa as a first candidate to be as first driver - the car was more suitable for him and Kimi really have some problems with it in the beginning (even if he won the first race) unfortunately Massa was unlucky and the team decided to put everything to Kimi and as we know he was the WDC 2007.

Last year Massa hade his change but the team made too many mistakes and he lost the title with a point.

This year Massa was as "the possible first driver" again - but this time the car doesn't give him any change.. Reason can be that Ferrari develop the car with Kers - that possible was the main mistake, because the aerodynamic is not that good as it would be without the Kers. (I think)

BUT - if Ferrari modify the car to one of the drivers (and not to both) I think they still have a change to the titles.. That’s my opinion.. however whole team have to work to same direction, Massa and Kimi are both very good drivers and maybe it should be more fair if Massa get a change also this year – even if I think Kimi has more to give if he has whole team behind him.. as the last races on the 2007 ..

I'm sure that next race Ferrari take their first points.. If it will be Kimi or Massa I don't know - maybe both.. they also will use the Kers again (however if it will be a race without rain)..

:)

[Tom206wrc]

Cant believe it. Another race...another dissapointing result :(

Does anyone know exactly what happened to Massa's car :?:





It looks really psycologically difficult to be a Ferrari Tifoso this year :mark:

[pino]

It looks really psycologically difficult to be a Ferrari Tifoso this year :mark:

Not if you are a real tifoso ;)

[leopard]

As usual Felippe doesn't have good pace in the opening race. I think he will soon bounce back once all technical problem sorted out, more over the pace of Ferari will be getting better in the next races as it soon leaves tropical race for European with less probability of rain typical race which Massa is not mastering at.

Ok, rest assured everything is ok...

[555-04Q2]

As usual Felippe doesn't have good pace in the opening race. I think he will soon bounce back once all technical problem sorted out, more over the pace of Ferari will be getting better in the next races as it soon leaves tropical race for European with less probability of rain typical race which Massa is not mastering at.

Ok, rest assured everything is ok...

What :?: Massa was up to third from thriteenth on the grid until his car stopped.

[veeten]

Cant believe it. Another race...another dissapointing result :(

Does anyone know exactly what happened to Massa's car :?:

electronics failure, more likely possible due to all the rain and standing water on sections of the track.

[veeten]

What :?: Massa was up to third from thriteenth on the grid until his car stopped.

... and that's the crux of this problem, it's always pretty good until another breakdown happens due to reliability issues.

[leopard]

What :?: Massa was up to third from thriteenth on the grid until his car stopped.

It would be heroic moment if only he could keep up the pace until finished. Considering times spent with the team I think he knew the car ins and outs. He is in capacity to handle the problem and all the mess in this opening races is forgivable...

[Psycho!]

Till the time he retired,he had an equal or faster pace in comparison with the RB5s.Take into account that he was a lot heavier and he had to overtake,and you will see that his performance was awesome!!! ;) (To see the lap chart visit fia.com)

[555-04Q2]

... and that's the crux of this problem, it's always pretty good until another breakdown happens due to reliability issues.

Indeed. Ferrari's mistakes last year cost Massa the WDC, reliability issues and mistakes so far over and above the fact the car is slow this year will not allow Kimi or Massa to challenge the front runners.

[555-04Q2]

electronics failure, more likely possible due to all the rain and standing water on sections of the track.

Thanks V :up:

[veeten]

... and now, from the 'misery loves company' segment of our show, comes this.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74778
;) :p :

[Psycho!]

I feel like he is going to a funeral!!!

[F1boat]

Yes... I expected Ferrari to be better at Bahrain, because of the test, but - so far, so awful. Very unpleasant.

[wedge]

Crikey, no bloody aero-updates? Do Ferrari have monkeys developing their cars?

[BDunnell]

Moderators, I continue to be surprised that this thread was and is allowed. I wouldn't expect to get away with a thread on these forums in which I dictated the opinions that could be heard in it. Why is this one deemed acceptable?

[F1boat]

Crikey, no bloody aero-updates? Do Ferrari have monkeys developing their cars?

BMW are the same, all will be introduced in Barcelona. If the times are not significantly better, this will be an extremely long and terrible season for Ferrari. If you look at Renault and McLaren-Mercedes they are improving constantly, while BMW and Ferrari are falling...

""He wants to be here with the team in this difficult moment."

Which, translated, means that he wants to see what his bloody awful decisions made in 2006 have resulted in.

Moderators, I continue to be surprised that this thread was and is allowed. I wouldn't expect to get away with a thread on these forums in which I dictated the opinions that could be heard in it. Why is this one deemed acceptable?

Don't ask a reasonable question to a moderator and expect a reply!

Moderators, I continue to be surprised that this thread was and is allowed. I wouldn't expect to get away with a thread on these forums in which I dictated the opinions that could be heard in it. Why is this one deemed acceptable?

To be fair to the thread starter, I think he has stated that anybody who wishes to discuss the current state of the Scuderia in an intelligent/reasonable manner is welcome.

And, judging by the quality of the posts here, 99.9% of the posters are.

Except you, obviously. (joke).

If somebody wished to have a "Mclaren Fans Thread" then I don't have a problem with it.

Although I'd be surprised that anybody would want to be associated with such a lying bunch.

[BDunnell]

If somebody wished to have a "Mclaren Fans Thread" then I don't have a problem with it.

I would, because I don't think that any thread should have a restriction on the opinions that can be expressed within it.

I would, because I don't think that any thread should have a restriction on the opinions that can be expressed within it.

So it would be ok for me to post "Mclaren are a bunch of paedos" in the (currently fictional) 'Mclaren Fan Thread'?

It has no basis in fact, is aimed solely at winding up the Mclaren fans, doesn't add to the discussion but, crucially, it's an opinion so by your reckoning should not only be allowed but welcomed. That's what you are promoting, isn't it?

There are plenty of non-Ferrari fans posting on this thread and they are welcome....so long as they are honest in their posts.

Which should rule out the more obvious Mclaren-apologistas from coming here anyway....which, I note, he hasn't.

[pino]

I would, because I don't think that any thread should have a restriction on the opinions that can be expressed within it.

This thread has not restrictions, the only thing I will not allow is people getting in here only for starting a fight with Ferrari fans. So everyone is welcome to post and discuss about Ferrari...end of the story :)

[pino]

Don't ask a reasonable question to a moderator and expect a reply!

As posted in Feedback Forum I've got a life too so I can't be here 24/7 for replying every post/complain/PM/whatever...

If you're not happy the way I run this place, I suggest you contact the owner of this Board (Mark) and ask him to fire me ;)

Back to Bahrain....

Much better qualifying than I had initially expected, although I still think it is appalling that there are no updates for a track where the team had a full weeks testing pre-season.

The good news from qualifying is that the Brawns don't look anything super-duper anymore. Competitive, yes, but not on a different level to the rest.

As posted in Feedback Forum I've got a life too so I can't be here 24/7 for replying every post/complain/PM/whatever...

If you're not happy the way I run this place, I suggest you contact the owner of this Board (Mark) and ask him to fire me ;)

I have.

[veeten]

Geez, stuck at the back of the line again, 8th and 9th.

Well, Luca, you wanted to come and see how things were going. Now, if it becomes another 'schlepping mule' weekend, you'll have some prime candidates for getting the sack.

[gloomyDAY]

Bahrain looks like a points haul.
Ferrari better get their act together or my FGP is screwed.


I have.lmao!

What happened to Massa's car in China?
I never read what exactly went wrong.

[markabilly]

Crikey, no bloody aero-updates? Do Ferrari have monkeys developing their cars?



NOT true at all, Ferrari has found some new mods and a way to motivate kimi:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_iUqZrtjuOqg/SeNwxHpjWBI/AAAAAAAAAJA/6YmcplLAMVk/s720/raikkonenki7vv8.jpg




closer, closer, come closer my little friend

[F1boat]

Back to Bahrain....
The good news from qualifying is that the Brawns don't look anything super-duper anymore. Competitive, yes, but not on a different level to the rest.
Yes, now the Red Bull took their place.

[Bagwan]

Back to Bahrain....

Much better qualifying than I had initially expected, although I still think it is appalling that there are no updates for a track where the team had a full weeks testing pre-season.

The good news from qualifying is that the Brawns don't look anything super-duper anymore. Competitive, yes, but not on a different level to the rest.

Will they have dust in the McLaren ECU in both cars this time instead of water ?

[jjanicke]

Yes, now the Red Bull took their place.

Redbull have developed extremely well. I think they have the edge on Brawn, but only by a hair, the entire field is so tight. Mclaren and Toyota seem to be making steady progress, followed by Ferrari. Renault and Williams have something but they can't seem to capitalize on it, + Renault have been qualifying very light. BMW have a good heavy car, but can't get it to go fast. Toro Rosso need to catch up to their sister team. Force India have a fast driver in Sutil, and I hope they can keep up the development efforts.

[BDunnell]

So it would be ok for me to post "Mclaren are a bunch of paedos" in the (currently fictional) 'Mclaren Fan Thread'?

It has no basis in fact, is aimed solely at winding up the Mclaren fans, doesn't add to the discussion but, crucially, it's an opinion so by your reckoning should not only be allowed but welcomed. That's what you are promoting, isn't it?

There are plenty of non-Ferrari fans posting on this thread and they are welcome....so long as they are honest in their posts.

Which should rule out the more obvious Mclaren-apologistas from coming here anyway....which, I note, he hasn't.

I don't believe that anyone should be uncomfortable with posting in any thread, no matter what 'tactics' are used. And I was (I hope obviously) referring to sensible opinions, not just any old opinion used to wind people up. There is a significant difference.

[BDunnell]

This thread has not restrictions, the only thing I will not allow is people getting in here only for starting a fight with Ferrari fans. So everyone is welcome to post and discuss about Ferrari...end of the story :)

I have no wish to get into an argument with you at any time, but I think that's a really inadequate response to my point. Would a thread in the Chit-Chat forum entitled 'Barack Obama fans only' be permitted? I hope not. Differing opinions are one thing when expressed and debated sensibly, but attempts to stifle them at the outset of a thread are quite another.

[F1boat]

Redbull have developed extremely well. I think they have the edge on Brawn, but only by a hair, the entire field is so tight. Mclaren and Toyota seem to be making steady progress, followed by Ferrari. Renault and Williams have something but they can't seem to capitalize on it, + Renault have been qualifying very light. BMW have a good heavy car, but can't get it to go fast. Toro Rosso need to catch up to their sister team. Force India have a fast driver in Sutil, and I hope they can keep up the development efforts.

I am very impressed by McLaren and if FIA does not ban them, I think that very soon Lewis will win again.

[jas123f1]

NOT true at all, Ferrari has found some new mods and a way to motivate kimi:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_iUqZrtjuOqg/SeNwxHpjWBI/AAAAAAAAAJA/6YmcplLAMVk/s720/raikkonenki7vv8.jpg




closer, closer, come closer my little friend

OK- now I understand why the team don't give him any fresh tyres in Q3 and why he every time has heavier car than his team mate.. That's the new Ferrari tactics (tactician?)..

Kimi without Kers (if possible), used tyres in Q3 and heavy car .. ??? Doesn’t Ferrari don’t like get any points or what’s going on??? they are speaking how important it is to get points and make it more difficult for gain them.. ??

What's going on ???

[Ranger]

NOT true at all, Ferrari has found some new mods and a way to motivate kimi:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_iUqZrtjuOqg/SeNwxHpjWBI/AAAAAAAAAJA/6YmcplLAMVk/s720/raikkonenki7vv8.jpg




closer, closer, come closer my little friend

Ahem... that was the Kimi of old.

The Kimi of new is driven by the Magnum and Coke.

[Psycho!]

Would tou ever eat ice-cream along with Coke???It must be disgusting!!! :s

[F1boat]

First points!!! :)

[DexDexter]

First points!!! :)

They would have got 4 points instead of 3 if they had changed the tire in a reasonable time in Kimi's last pitstop. Another team blunder.

[DexDexter]

Ahem... that was the Kimi of old.

The Kimi of new is driven by the Magnum and Coke.

That picture is totally false, Kimi certainly doesn't drink Swedish vodka :)

[pino]

That picture is totally false, Kimi certainly doesn't drink Swedish vodka :)

:rotflmao:

[Psycho!]

Let's hope that this is the last bad race for Ferrari....Hopefully Spain brings some kind of revitalising to our team!!!

[F1boat]

Yes! I hope so, Psycho!

[veeten]

Interesting words by Luca, just before the GP.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74864

[F1boat]

Check point 3 Luca...

[Garry Walker]

At least some points...

[pino]

Great result for Kimi, now let's see what the new car can do in the next race (Barcellona) :D

[jens]

What a weird season - Ferrari fans cheer about 3 points! Unbelievable. :p :

[jas123f1]

That picture is totally false, Kimi certainly doesn't drink Swedish vodka :)

Oh - so that's the reason.. ;)

[wedge]

At least some points...

Agreed. Solid drive from Kimi.

[veeten]

and the ice cream van, just waiting... :lips: :p :

[jas123f1]

The car need more down force – that’s the biggest problem – if they some way can fix it and if the team can stop to make simple mistakes and try to be too clever with the tactics.. THEN is everything possible - I shouldn’t be too much surprised to have at least Kimi in the podium all ready in Barcelona – this year is a bit different because the cap between teams is not that big – so every improvement in the team (not onle the cars) can make a big difference..

[F1boat]

The car will be improved, but the silly mistakes...

[jjanicke]

The car need more down force – that’s the biggest problem – if they some way can fix it and if the team can stop to make simple mistakes and try to be too clever with the tactics.. THEN is everything possible - I shouldn’t be too much surprised to have at least Kimi in the podium all ready in Barcelona – this year is a bit different because the cap between teams is not that big – so every improvement in the team (not onle the cars) can make a big difference..

I think it's a stretch to expect Ferrari on the podium in the next round. RBR, Toyota and Brawn are pretty damn fast cars, followed by Mclaren and then Ferrari. I expect the gap to shrink, but Vet, But and Tru should all have the edge over Mclaren and Ferrari (perhaps Webber too).

I think it's a big stretch to see Ferrari on the podium in Spain.

My latest theory as to the poor season is this....the lack of testing is hitting Ferrari harder than any other team because for years the Ferrari way of doing things has been to test....and then test....and then test.....and then test....etc, etc, etc...and then test a bit more.

I know that there have been restrictions on testing before, but 2009 is a whole new ball game and requires a fundamentally different philosophy towards car development strategy.

Ferrari are not in sync with the new no-testing format. Until they are, they will not be challenging for podiums.

[DexDexter]

I'm hoping they take a big step forward but I wouldn't bet on it. The field is close, a half a second would make a big difference. I know others will improve too but I think it's bit harder to improve a good car than a bad car, that's why I think Ferrari could catch up. Fingers crossed.

[I am evil Homer]

It depends on the design issue....it's clear both the Ferrari and McLaren have some fundamental aero issues with the current design. Even new front wings and diffusors may not be enough to close the gap.

[Garry Walker]

I think it's a big stretch to see Ferrari on the podium in Spain.

My latest theory as to the poor season is this....the lack of testing is hitting Ferrari harder than any other team because for years the Ferrari way of doing things has been to test....and then test....and then test.....and then test....etc, etc, etc...and then test a bit more.

I know that there have been restrictions on testing before, but 2009 is a whole new ball game and requires a fundamentally different philosophy towards car development strategy.

Ferrari are not in sync with the new no-testing format. Until they are, they will not be challenging for podiums.

The problem is that for most of the winter-testing, Ferrari was not bringing in any new parts, so your theory cant be that correct. Renault, McLaren and such teams were bringing in new parts all the time and improved massively from where they started, Ferrari did nothing.

[555-04Q2]

For the Ferrari fans, bringing this thread back to page one.

Anyone know when ioan's ban ends or is it a permanent one?

Looking forward to Monaco where I think ferrari will have a better showing than the previous races.

For the Ferrari fans, bringing this thread back to page one.

Anyone know when ioan's ban ends or is it a permanent one?

Looking forward to Monaco where I think ferrari will have a better showing than the previous races.

Ioan got a one month ban, for reasons unknown to us mere mortals.

I'm reasonably encouraged by Ferrari's progress on a design/development front, but I'm beginning to think that even if the Scuderia were to get the F60 to be the fastest thing round the principality they'd also find a way to feck it all up with stupendously dumb decisions.

The problem is that for most of the winter-testing, Ferrari was not bringing in any new parts, so your theory cant be that correct. Renault, McLaren and such teams were bringing in new parts all the time and improved massively from where they started, Ferrari did nothing.

Which, rather than contradicting my theory, actually backs it up.

Ferrari hadn't got to grips with the new testing restrictions, which are such that new parts must be constantly brought to each pre-season test at short notice as Renault, Mclaren and others were doing.

No longer can they rely on wheeling something out at Fiorano when it's ready...it has to be ready now or even sooner and Ferrari management were too slow to realise that. They didn't adapt.

[jas123f1]

I think it's a stretch to expect Ferrari on the podium in the next round. RBR, Toyota and Brawn are pretty damn fast cars, followed by Mclaren and then Ferrari. I expect the gap to shrink, but Vet, But and Tru should all have the edge over Mclaren and Ferrari (perhaps Webber too).

It was close - I said the car need more down force – that’s the biggest problem – if they some way can fix it and if the team can stop to make simple MISTAKES and try to be too clever with the tactics..

THEN is everything possible - I shouldn’t be too much surprised to have at least Kimi in the podium all ready in Barcelona –

----------
AND WHAT THEY DID ??? ALL MISTAKES THEY POSSIBLE CAN DO :( and even then Massa was 6th...

[DexDexter]

Ioan got a one month ban, for reasons unknown to us mere mortals.

I'm reasonably encouraged by Ferrari's progress on a design/development front, but I'm beginning to think that even if the Scuderia were to get the F60 to be the fastest thing round the principality they'd also find a way to feck it all up with stupendously dumb decisions.

I agree, a wheel nut might come lose for some reason or one of the cars may run out of fuel before the pitstops because of confusion. I mean those are the sort of things we are starting to expect from then.

[Knock-on]

Can you take this to the right forum please :D

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=97

[pino]

Can you take this to the right forum please :D

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=97

You wish knockie...but is not going to happen :p :

[ioan]

They are back! :D

First row and IMO with a heavier car + KERS at the start.
Looking forward for the first Ferrari win of the season!

[SGWilko]

They are back! :D

First row and IMO with a heavier car + KERS at the start.
Looking forward for the first Ferrari win of the season!

But we all know the Ferrari KERS only works if the wind is blowing in the right direction!!!!! ;)

[ioan]

But we all know the Ferrari KERS only works if the wind is blowing in the right direction!!!!! ;)

I trust the wind to be wearing red tomorrow!

[ShiftingGears]

Looking forward for the first Ferrari win of the season!

I'll be surprised if Ferrari don't cock something up during the race.

[Shalafi]

They are back! :D

First row and IMO with a heavier car + KERS at the start.
Looking forward for the first Ferrari win of the season!

Yeah!! JJ Lehto commented Kimis lap as close to perfect as possible in this track. The Reds are coming, there is plenty of racing left in this season. :)

[ioan]

Just saw that the Brawns will have a longer 1st stint, so maybe the race will be played at the 2nd round of pits stops, otherwise we can only hope for a podium.

[Shalafi]

Just saw that the Brawns will have a longer 1st stint, so maybe the race will be played at the 2nd round of pits stops, otherwise we can only hope for a podium.

The start is critical, with help of KERS Kimi to lead and Massa up there too...after that, overtaking is almost impossible so they can afford long second stint...

[F1boat]

IMO Kimi will lead Button in the start, but Jenson will be better in pits. Of course, in Monaco you can never know...

[ioan]

First podium for a red car this year! :up:

Well, Kimi messed up the start and Felipe messed up when he cut the chicane and had to let Vettel back allowing Rosberg to slip through.

Without these mistakes they could have had 2 red cars on the podium.

I'm a bit disappointed with Kimi's lack of pace after Rubens' 2nd stop, he should have been faster with a light car than Rubens with a fueled up one.

Felipe fell foul to his early mistake otherwise he wouldn't have been behind Button before his 2nd stop.

[F1boat]

Nice job for Ferrari! Great podium for Kimi!

[DexDexter]

First podium for a red car this year! :up:

Well, Kimi messed up the start and Felipe messed up when he cut the chicane and had to let Vettel back allowing Rosberg to slip through.

Without these mistakes they could have had 2 red cars on the podium.

I'm a bit disappointed with Kimi's lack of pace after Rubens' 2nd stop, he should have been faster with a light car than Rubens with a fueled up one.

Felipe fell foul to his early mistake otherwise he wouldn't have been behind Button before his 2nd stop.

Kimi didn't mess up the start, he had harder tires and the Brawn's were on softs and he was on the dirtier side of the track. The team messed up Kimi's second stop where he lost several seconds, he could have got Rubens, it was not the pace that was lacking. IMO drivers did a very good job but the team didn't.

[ioan]

Kimi didn't mess up the start, he had harder tires and the Brawn's were on softs and he was on the dirtier side of the track. The team messed up Kimi's second stop where he lost several seconds, he could have got Rubens, it was not the pace that was lacking. IMO drivers did a very good job but the team didn't.

The harder tires were soft tires and they wouldn't make such a difference, so quit coming up with such excuses.

Did you see the start to the warm-up lap? Those "harder" tires worked excellent at that moment.

The start in Monaco, given the short run down to the first corner, is a question of who pushes a button (no pun intended) faster after the lights go out. If you are a tenth of a second slower than the other guy you'll lose out. It's as simple as that.

[DexDexter]

The harder tires were soft tires and they wouldn't make such a difference, so quit coming up with such excuses.

Did you see the start to the warm-up lap? Those "harder" tires worked excellent at that moment.

The start in Monaco, given the short run down to the first corner, is a question of who pushes a button (no pun intended) faster after the lights go out. If you are a tenth of a second slower than the other guy you'll lose out. It's as simple as that.

Losing one place at the start is not messing up the start, it's racing, not a mistake, just racing.

[DonJippo]

Ferrari tactics were once again wrong, they should have started with super-soft tires like Brawn did. Also the last stint was way too long for super-softs.

[AndyL]

Ferrari tactics were once again wrong, they should have started with super-soft tires like Brawn did. Also the last stint was way too long for super-softs.

To be fair they were doing better lap times at the end than the Brawns had been at the end of their short stint on the super-softs. You could argue that it was a smart move to keep the super-softs until the track had rubbered in.

[ioan]

Ferrari tactics were once again wrong, they should have started with super-soft tires like Brawn did. Also the last stint was way too long for super-softs.

I disagree, the Ferrari strategy was best today.
The supersoft tires were not suited to the track at the beginning and all the cars using them were having problems.
Once the track rubbered in the supersoft were doing great.

For once Ferrari made the right calls in terms of strategy.

[jens]

One race has passed and now Ferrari isn't only a strong contender for P3 in WCC, but they can set their sights even for P2 and Red Bull (42,5-17 behind at the moment, but we will see, how well can RBR develop during a season). :p :

[pino]

Ferrari tactics were once again wrong, they should have started with super-soft tires like Brawn did. Also the last stint was way too long for super-softs.

I also disagree with you, the strategy this time was perfect :up:

[DonJippo]

I also disagree with you, the strategy this time was perfect :up:

And what good did their chosen strategy do for Ferrari?

[F1boat]

And what good did their chosen strategy do for Ferrari?

It did to them no harm, really. They were not in position to challenge Brawn GP.

[555-04Q2]

And what good did their chosen strategy do for Ferrari?

The Ferrari tactics were perfect this weekend. Their strategy got them into a solid and fairly comfortable 3-4 finish and at one point Kimi was putting pressure on Rubens in the much faster Brawn during stint 2. There was no more they could do. Well done to the boys for finally getting the car and their strategy right for the first time this season :up:

[Psycho!]

And I think Domenicali said in an interview that Ferrari will have an upgraded package with more downforce for Turkey...Apart from that, Massa is a master there.So, fingers crossed....

[F1boat]

And I think Domenicali said in an interview that Ferrari will have an upgraded package with more downforce for Turkey...Apart from that, Massa is a master there.So, fingers crossed....

IMO, Felipe can win in Turkey. BTW, you wish in the signature is now true...

[555-04Q2]

IMO, Felipe can win in Turkey. BTW, you wish in the signature is now true...

What does Massa like to say...oh yeah, "I OWN Turkey". He is sh!t hot at this track and hopefully he will be able to conquer the fast Brawn GP cars and take a first win in 2009 for the prancing horse (formely known as the tripping donkey).

Go Massa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[F1boat]

What does Massa like to say...oh yeah, "I OWN Turkey". He is sh!t hot at this track and hopefully he will be able to conquer the fast Brawn GP cars and take a first win in 2009 for the prancing horse (formely known as the tripping donkey).

Go Massa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMO the Red Bull will be his main rival in Turkey. Brawn will aim to beat Kimi and Mark with Jenson.

[ioan]

Well, it looks like being fast in todays practice and in Q1 ad Q2 means nothing when it comes to getting things right in Q3.

Both drivers complained about tires and car behavior in Q3.

Strange given that they both ran better times over 10 lap stints with fuel on board.

It looks like the car is good, the drivers are motivated and fast but they never manage to make most of their potential.

[Shalafi]

Once again, the start is crucial. They must overtake Trulli. After that, everything is possible with a good strategy if the racepace is there.

[DexDexter]

I don't understand why they go heavier than Brawns and Red Bulls in q3, I think they should be going for pole. Now there is a possibility of a Trulli train again. Looking at the drivers, Kimi has come back really strong this year, outqualifying Massa for the second race in succession in Massa's favourite circuit and with a heavier car.

[555-04Q2]

I don't understand why they go heavier than Brawns and Red Bulls in q3, I think they should be going for pole. Now there is a possibility of a Trulli train again. Looking at the drivers, Kimi has come back really strong this year, outqualifying Massa for the second race in succession in Massa's favourite circuit and with a heavier car.

I disagree.

Both Kimi and Massa have been dismal this season, as has the car and team.

Massa is once again leading his highly rated teamate in the WDC by a few points, so Kimi is still finding it hard going.

[Garry Walker]

I disagree.

Both Kimi and Massa have been dismal this season, as has the car and team.

Massa is once again leading his highly rated teamate in the WDC by a few points, so Kimi is still finding it hard going.

Both Kimi and Felipe have been good this season. If the car was 1 second faster per lap and they had driven exactly the same, you would be saying they have driven really well, but because their car has been a box, their performances have been attacked.
We have the best driver pairing by far in F1, but just no pace in that car.

[MrJan]

Both Kimi and Felipe have been good this season. If the car was 1 second faster per lap and they had driven exactly the same, you would be saying they have driven really well, but because their car has been a box, their performances have been attacked.
We have the best driver pairing by far in F1, but just no pace in that car.

I find it very difficult to agree with almost anything you say Garry :p : Massa seems to be getting something out of the car on ocassion but Kimi (who is a driver I rate higher than Felipe) is no where again this season. He obviously wasn't too keen on the car last year and still isn't and I think that the sooner he jumps ship the better for all involved.

Incidentally I believe that there is one key moment which has seen the slip from Ferrari, let's just say that I can't imagine a Ferrari dropping out in the first qualy session or nearly running out of fuel when Ross Brawn was at the helm. Much as I hate the bloke it's difficult to ignore the fact that he has an amzing tactical brain which the team has never managed to replace.

[Garry Walker]

I find it very difficult to agree with almost anything you say Garry :p : Massa seems to be getting something out of the car on ocassion but Kimi (who is a driver I rate higher than Felipe) is no where again this season. He obviously wasn't too keen on the car last year and still isn't and I think that the sooner he jumps ship the better for all involved.


I am not sure why this hate for Kimi. Have you followed the races?
He has bettered Massa in qualifying 4:3 (and massa is no piquet in qualifying) and has mostly been pretty good in races (except china) and never really struggled for pace. He also is the guy who brought a podium for Ferrari.
Yesterday his race was screwed on first lap when Massa had to move suddenly to avoid RB and blocked Kimi and then damaged his front wing with Alonso.
Other than that the only problem he and Felipe had was that Ferrari again did not have pace.

What do you want from him? To win in this Ferrari?

[MrJan]

I am not sure why this hate for Kimi. Have you followed the races?
He has bettered Massa in qualifying 4:3 (and massa is no piquet in qualifying) and has mostly been pretty good in races (except china) and never really struggled for pace. He also is the guy who brought a podium for Ferrari.
Yesterday his race was screwed on first lap when Massa had to move suddenly to avoid RB and blocked Kimi and then damaged his front wing with Alonso.
Other than that the only problem he and Felipe had was that Ferrari again did not have pace.

What do you want from him? To win in this Ferrari?

It's hardly a hate for Kimi!!!!! I said that I rate him highly as a driver but don't think he's working well with the (admittedly sub-par) machinery. I'll admit that I'm just working on vague recollection of the races (because F1 rarely has the excitement to last for more than a day or 2 in my memory :D ) but Kimi just hsn't seemed to be doing particularly well. Also one of those 4:3 qualys was when Felipe ended up in the garage because the team didn't send him out, hardly worth chalking up a win for that one.

As for jumping ship, well he's not been superb at the team in the last year and seems to look bored and disinterested a lot of the time. Sometimes drivers just need a change of scenery to get the best out of them and I really don't feel that Raikkonen fits into the Ferrari family quite as well as other drivers have in the past :)

[Garry Walker]

It's hardly a hate for Kimi!!!!! I said that I rate him highly as a driver but don't think he's working well with the (admittedly sub-par) machinery. I'll admit that I'm just working on vague recollection of the races (because F1 rarely has the excitement to last for more than a day or 2 in my memory :D ) but Kimi just hsn't seemed to be doing particularly well. Also one of those 4:3 qualys was when Felipe ended up in the garage because the team didn't send him out, hardly worth chalking up a win for that one.

As for jumping ship, well he's not been superb at the team in the last year and seems to look bored and disinterested a lot of the time. Sometimes drivers just need a change of scenery to get the best out of them and I really don't feel that Raikkonen fits into the Ferrari family quite as well as other drivers have in the past :)
Kimi lost in one qualifying to Massa, because team didnt send him out either!
Another one he lost at Bahrain was because he did not have any new softs left for Q3. Surprisingly, he has been better in qualifying than Massa this year.

Kimi always seems bored and disinterested, he has been like that since the day he came to F1, that is simply his style. He is not an emotional guy and people mistake that for not caring about F1. That said, I would love to know how his "not being interested in F1" has shown itself to you?
By all accounts Kimi and Ferrari people get on very well.
He and Massa are a good team.

[ioan]

Both Kimi and Felipe have been good this season. If the car was 1 second faster per lap and they had driven exactly the same, you would be saying they have driven really well, but because their car has been a box, their performances have been attacked.
We have the best driver pairing by far in F1, but just no pace in that car.

I have to agree, both drivers are doing great given the conditions.

The car isn't as bad as some would like us to believe. The chassis is excellent and very well balanced even with KERS.

The design team did a great job and even after the DDD were ruled legal they managed to develop the car faster than other teams and the results were obvious.

I believe that the problem lies with the race engineer team who are doing a very poor job. This last race they never managed to run the times we saw from them on Saturday morning, and they don't know why! This is a clear sign of a poorly done job.

They messed up the set-up of the cars in order to get better times in Q2 and that backfired in Q3 and the race.
Also the tire choice for qualifying was not the best one.

[ioan]

What do you want from him? To win in this Ferrari?

Sooner or later he should live up to the "Schumacher destroyer" hype! :p :

[ioan]

He and Massa are a good team.

That's true, this is by far the strongest pairing on the grid.

[airshifter]

Sooner or later he should live up to the "Schumacher destroyer" hype! :p :

There is no hype at all to that statement Ioan. Schumacher is highly overrated and mostly hype. The only reason he isn't still driving is because he is outclassed by the current field of younger talent.



We are talking about Ralf right? :laugh:

[ioan]

There is no hype at all to that statement Ioan. Schumacher is highly overrated and mostly hype. The only reason he isn't still driving is because he is outclassed by the current field of younger talent.



We are talking about Ralf right? :laugh:

I hope so! :D

[jens]

It's quite interesting that this year it has been quite opposite to what we have been used to in the past - so far in 2009 Kimi has seemed to be the better qualifier and Felipe the better racer of the Ferrari duo. Overall it's been rather close.

But overall it looks like we could see an interesting battle emerging between Toyota and Ferrari for P3 in WCC - like in 2005. We'll see, how does that pan out. :s mokin:

[ioan]

:eek: Incredible race by Massa!

Go Felipe! :up: :up: :up:

The Ferrari looked to be 3rd or maybe even 2nd fastest car in this race!
Wonder why they can't get their qualifying right for once.

[airshifter]

Quite a change with both cars in the points. The way the coverage went you hardly noticed the Ferrari pace until later in the race. For a few laps there I thought Felipe might even have a shot at a podium finish.

[555-04Q2]

Great drive by Massa :up:

Kimi needs to go :down: He's a #1 drivers ar$e.

[race_director]

race after race one thing is happening. Kimi slips back after his 1st pit stop. is there a problem with a heavy car or Kimi not able to work the tires properly after existing the pit ?

[janneppi]

After his first stop he landed behind Trulli, and we all know that that means ;) , I'm not sure he would have been ahead of Massa when he came out , but he would have most like been closer.

[ioan]

race after race one thing is happening. Kimi slips back after his 1st pit stop. is there a problem with a heavy car or Kimi not able to work the tires properly after existing the pit ?

To be honest yesterday he was never on the right foot strategy wise, but still he was slower than Massa and with such a tight field that cost him many places.

[Shalafi]

Great drive by Massa :up:

Kimi needs to go :down: He's a #1 drivers ar$e.

What an idiotic comment.

[555-04Q2]

What an idiotic comment.

Right back at ya :p :

[ioan]

What an idiotic comment.

You would have had a chance to prove him wrong if you were slightly civilized.

[Shalafi]

Right back at ya :p :

Heh, maybe. But tell me why bashing Kimi after that race? Good qualifying with that car, beating Massa again. Wonderful start, but due to bad strategy stucked behind Trulli in a track where overtaking is impossible if driver ahead doesnt make a mistake or if the car isnt significantly quicker. What could he have done? Mistake was Ferraris strategy, they should of put him a lot of fuel in Q3 and trust in that KERS at the start. I think both Ferrari drivers are doing very good job at the moment.

[ioan]

Good qualifying with that car, beating Massa again.

I don't get your need to hype him for something that proved to be useless in the end, unless it's all about denigrating a bit Massa for having a better race.

Kimi is a great driver, he's fast and on his day he's unbeatable.
He's also a very likable person, IMO, and I appreciate him quite a lot lately.

However his fan(atic)s are pi$$ poor.

[Shalafi]

I don't get your need to hype him for something that proved to be useless in the end, unless it's all about denigrating a bit Massa for having a better race.

Kimi is a great driver, he's fast and on his day he's unbeatable.
He's also a very likable person, IMO, and I appreciate him quite a lot lately.

However his fan(atic)s are pi$$ poor.

I mentioned that because Massa has proved himself amazing qualifier. Kimi has done very good job in qualifying this year comparing his success against Massa, unlike in previous years. So my point was that Kimi was very good throughout the weekend and no need to bash him because Ferrari chose wrong strategy. Mass did an excellent race. Kimi is one of my favourite drivers, but Im not a fanatic. Useless bashing just annoys me.

[555-04Q2]

Heh, maybe. But tell me why bashing Kimi after that race? Good qualifying with that car, beating Massa again. Wonderful start, but due to bad strategy stucked behind Trulli in a track where overtaking is impossible if driver ahead doesnt make a mistake or if the car isnt significantly quicker. What could he have done? Mistake was Ferraris strategy, they should of put him a lot of fuel in Q3 and trust in that KERS at the start. I think both Ferrari drivers are doing very good job at the moment.

I'm not bashing Kimi. Trust me, if I was bashing him, you would know all about it.

I disagree with your comments. Kimi is being paid BIG money compared to Massa, yet Massa cleaned him up in 2008 and is currently 6 points ahead of Kimi in the 2009 WDC standings, hence my comment that he is a #1 drivers ar$e. I stand by by original comment and dont have to justify it at all, Kimi does it for me all by himself.

Discussion over.

[jens]

It looks like Toyota vs Ferrari fight in WCC is really getting more serious as the season develops... :p :

As for the comments above, I have to mention that Silverstone should be among the better circuits, when we are talking about overtaking opportunities. Alonso and Hamilton managed to have a really entertaining fight, for example. Kimi with KERS really could have tried at least something on track, instead of this he actually seemed to get under pressure from Glock by the end of the race. Maybe his race pace wasn't that good? In the first stint KR didn't seem close to Nakajima either, who was lighter only by one lap.

[veeten]

So, it looks like they will be 'pulling a 'Honda',... so to speak.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76561

[markabilly]

Such great results shown by Luca's leadership, U should be comforted to know he is in charge of FOTA nego.....

Thank god, he ran off todt and brawn, just think what a diasister it would be for ferrari, if brawn were still at ferrari right nw....

[Tazio]

Such great results shown by Luca's leadership, U should be comforted to know he is in charge of FOTA nego.....

Thank god, he ran off todt and brawn, just think what a diasister it would be for ferrari, if brawn were still at ferrari right nw....

True dat! :up:

[ioan]

So, it looks like they will be 'pulling a 'Honda',... so to speak.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76561

They've been saying this for 2 months now.
Without having the possibility to test their only realistic chance to desing a good car for next season is to develop this year's car with what they think will be the best base for next season's car in terms of weight distribution, caused by the refueling ban and removal of KERS, this being the only important change.

In Ferrari's case given that the KERS is under the fuel tank, the upscaling of the fuel tank might not even make that big of a difference.

[ioan]

Such great results shown by Luca's leadership, U should be comforted to know he is in charge of FOTA nego.....

Thank god, he ran off todt and brawn, just think what a diasister it would be for ferrari, if brawn were still at ferrari right nw....

Brawn and Todt weren't fool proof either. Just think about 2005.

[markabilly]

Brawn and Todt weren't fool proof either. Just think about 2005.
did not mean to say they were perfect, but meant they just did not make the same silly mistakes that I probably would not make, over and over and over......
And since my level of competence would be considerably less than zero, and I would not be making those boo boos, (and nor would you, I suspicion) well......

[ioan]

did not mean to say they were perfect, but meant they just did not make the same silly mistakes that I probably would not make, over and over and over......
And since my level of competence would be considerably less than zero, and I would not be making those boo boos, (and nor would you, I suspicion) well......

I agree that they didn't usually repeat their mistakes and the measures were prompt and effective, however there were different circumstances and mainly less constraints back then, so I'm not sure that the situations really are comparable.

But I agree that the old ones were one step above the team they have now, but not more and it was mainly due to experience.

[wmcot]

And since my level of competence would be considerably less than zero...

I think you've just admitted that you are qualified for the job of FIA president.

Hey everyone, markabilly for FIA president!

[markabilly]

I think you've just admitted that you are qualified for the job of FIA president.

Hey everyone, markabilly for FIA president!

thanks, but having been locked up with a bunch of loonies in the hospital a couple of years ago, after they let me out, I was told to stay away from personal contact with those sorts. Besides, they gave this certificate to the judge that said I was no longer delusional to the extent of being a danger to others, and far worse, was cured of kleptomania....

[markabilly]

but every now and then my doc tells me if i do not take my meds, the pseudologica fantastica comes back..so some might say there is some hope for me ...
but I do not believe him, I think he is in a conspiracy with tambo to keep the presidency secure for maX

[ioan]

thanks, but having been locked up with a bunch of loonies in the hospital a couple of years ago, after they let me out, I was told to stay away from personal contact with those sorts. Besides, they gave this certificate to the judge that said I was no longer delusional to the extent of being a danger to others, and far worse, was cured of kleptomania....

:rotflmao: :up:

[ioan]

Looks like Kimi is preparing to become the official FIAT rally driver! ;)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76623

Seriously, :up: for Kimi for trying and :up: for Ferrari for allowing him to do whatever he likes to do.

[Dzeidzei]

I'm not bashing Kimi.

Yeahright. Novittujoo.



Discussion over.

Goodbye. This is a fans´s thread.

[AJP]

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=334742&FS=F1

Why would they wait till Monza??

[leopard]

So one of ferrari drivers will leave team in a mess, this could be a moment Alonso has been waiting for, or another debacle moment for the two times WDC.

But at least he will have opportunity that is always better than not at all, I think this is the closest approach that will happen ...

[Dzeidzei]

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=334742&FS=F1

Why would they wait till Monza??

There is only one chance for Fernando to drive the Ferrari next year and that would require all the teams running 3 cars. As that will not happen, Fernando would be better off to change for another team. Maybe Brawn? There he could whip Jensons butt.

This Spanish AS magazine has reported this FA moving to Ferrari story forever. I would never trust it. I´d never even wipe my AS with it.

[555-04Q2]

Yeahright. Novittujoo.



Goodbye. This is a fans´s thread.

I am a Ferrari fan and have been long before you were dude!

[Shalafi]

I am a Ferrari fan and have been long before you were dude!

Ferrari fan that consistently moan and bash latest Ferrari WDC. So not a true fan.

[ioan]

Ferrari fan that consistently moan and bash latest Ferrari WDC. So not a true fan.

A bit rich coming from someone who's rather a Kimi fan than a Ferrari fan, someone who's been bashing Ferrari day and night before a certain Finn came on board. :rolleyes:

[ioan]

I am a Ferrari fan and have been long before you were dude!

Exactly, he's only been a halfhearted Ferrari fans since 2007.

[Shalafi]

A bit rich coming from someone who's rather a Kimi fan than a Ferrari fan, someone who's been bashing Ferrari day and night before a certain Finn came on board. :rolleyes:

So...?

[ioan]

So...?

Stop rubbishing real Ferrari fans.

[pino]

Guys calm down or I will close this too :rolleyes:

[Shalafi]

Stop rubbishing real Ferrari fans.

REAL Ferrari fans dont constantly bash their WDC driver.

[markabilly]

Guys calm down or I will close this too :rolleyes:

consistent with everything else closing down

A1GP now seems to be closing down, Indy and Irl seems to be on the verge of closing down.......Max and bernie should both be closed down.....bad news on the doorstep, I could not take one more step, bye bye, m's american pie

[race_director]

REAL Ferrari fans dont constantly bash their WDC driver.

I agree

Gone are the days when ferrari fans use to stick with them even in time of crisis like in 1997,2005.

Now days fans expect massa and kimi to win every race. which sucks.


As a real ferrari fan one should support the the team. no matter who drive's let it be alonso. massa, kimi, vettel, sutil. expect Hamilton :)

[race_director]

I wouldn't expect Hamilton to drive for them just yet or did you mean 'except'??

If thats the case then you have contradicted yourself completely here my friend ;)

i am not here for being a teacher or check wethere i have contradicted myself or not............


stop being a head master and focus on the topic

[ioan]

I wouldn't expect Hamilton to drive for them just yet or did you mean 'except'??

Well spotted. ;)

As a real ferrari fan one should support the the team. no matter who drive's

Sorry, but when a driver isn't performing to the levels he should be, then he will be vilified for it by the Tifosi.

In 2005 & 1997 there was little doubt that Schumacher was not the problem....that cannot always be said about the latest incumbents.

Scheckter was roundly criticised in 1980, which shows that criticism of WDC's driving for Ferrari is not a new phenomenon.

But then, you'd have known that if you were a real Ferrari fan.

[ioan]

In fact Kimi has a 3 years contract (2007-2009) with an option for one more year.
It's up to him to decide if he stays or if he goes.

Maybe if Ferrari through FIAT will give him the possibility to run a full WRC season next year he will decide to leave F1, who knows.

REAL Ferrari fans dont constantly bash their WDC driver.

Yes they do.....if he deserves it.

[ioan]

REAL Ferrari fans dont constantly bash their WDC driver.

Depends if they are fans of Ferrari or of a certain driver. :rolleyes:

[Shalafi]

Yes they do.....if he deserves it.

Yeah, I should have added "without reason". Because Kimi for sure doesnt "deserve" bashing at the moment.

[Shalafi]

Depends if they are fans of Ferrari or of a certain driver. :rolleyes:

They cant be both?!

[CNR]

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/35781/f1-rossi-quashes-ferrari-2011-rumours/


With Ferrari President Luca di Montezemolo recently hinting the Scuderia may consider the possibility of fielding another car in future championships,


Felipe Massa Kimi Räikkönen Fernando Alonso 2011 ?

[ioan]

They cant be both?!

Sure they can, but they don't have to.

[555-04Q2]

Ferrari fan that consistently moan and bash latest Ferrari WDC. So not a true fan.

A true fan of the team, not the driver(s). I will always support the team no matter which idiot(s) drive for them. Criticising a driver has nothing to do with criticising the team. Its pretty easy to understand really.

[jens]

Oh, what a nice discussion, who is a "real" Ferrari fan and who is not. I may add one more example here - I was an emotional 'real' fan 10 years ago, apparently not now. :p :


In fact Kimi has a 3 years contract (2007-2009) with an option for one more year.
It's up to him to decide if he stays or if he goes.

Maybe if Ferrari through FIAT will give him the possibility to run a full WRC season next year he will decide to leave F1, who knows.

This could be a very interesting case if Ferrari can find a way, how instead of sacking KR (and hence paying his 2010 salary in advance), they can send to him to another series. Actually makes sense to me if Kimi prefers this solution as well. :)

[jas123f1]

A bit rich coming from someone who's rather a Kimi fan than a Ferrari fan, someone who's been bashing Ferrari day and night before a certain Finn came on board. :rolleyes:

:) So you are "a better" Ferrari fan?

I become as Ferrari fan because of Kimi made a contract with Ferrari and of course like him more that Massa – but I don’t dislike Felipe either.

But you are in reality more Massa fan, than Kimi fan and like THEREFORE to disqualify Kimi fans as not “really Ferrari fans” - because of that…

Do you really think that’s what "really Ferrari fans" are supposed to do?

I may add one more example here - I was an emotional 'real' fan 10 years ago, apparently not now. :p :

Well, that would make you a heretic.

St. Thomas (II-II:11:1) defines heresy: "a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Ferrari, corrupt its dogmas"

Burn him!!!!!!!!!

St. Thomas (II-II:11:1) defines heresy: "a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Ferrari, corrupt its dogmas"

OK, so it doesn't say 'Ferrari', it says 'Christ'....but these a mere minor legal definitions that shouldn't prevent a good old fashioned burning.

:) So you are "a better" Ferrari fan?

I become as Ferrari fan because of Kimi made a contract with Ferrari and of course like him more that Massa – but I don’t dislike Felipe either.

But you are in reality more Massa fan, than Kimi fan and like THEREFORE to disqualify Kimi fans as not “really Ferrari fans” - because of that…

Do you really think that’s what "really Ferrari fans" are supposed to do?

The very fact that you became a fan because of a driver shows that you do not qualify as a true Tifosi.

Thou shalt not worship false gods.

[ioan]

:) So you are "a better" Ferrari fan?

I become as Ferrari fan because of Kimi made a contract with Ferrari and of course like him more that Massa – but I don’t dislike Felipe either.

But you are in reality more Massa fan, than Kimi fan and like THEREFORE to disqualify Kimi fans as not “really Ferrari fans” - because of that…

Do you really think that’s what "really Ferrari fans" are supposed to do?

I'm a Ferrari fan. always been, no matter who drove for them.
You're a Kimi fan and you would sh!t on Ferrari if he wasn't driving for them.

See the difference?! :rolleyes: