The Ferrari thread ! [Archive] - Page 2

markabilly

4th July 2009, 14:18

no need argue anymore about massa v kimi v whoever....

According to Das Bild, the new Germany.....Heute Deutschland, morgen die Welt....opps

sorry the new set of Drivers for Ferrari is now to be none other than Alsono and...and...and Vettel!!!

http://www.bild.de/BILD/sport/motorsport/2009/07/01/spanier-berichten/wechselt-red-bull-pilot-sebastian-vettel-in-der-formel-1-zu-ferrari.html

Is that the new Ioan dream team or.....................

and those four grid girls are to drive me.......[insert sicko fantansy here, as something will not let me post the words]

markabilly

4th July 2009, 14:48

and those four grid girls are to drive me.......[insert sicko fantansy here, as something will not let me post the words]
From Pino:
http://img.printfection.com/9/2519169/GIOPY.jpg

http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:nv42wA0Pmps-qM:http://img.printfection.com/14/92203/z3KmH.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img.printfection.com/14/92203/z3KmH.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.printfection.com/funnyanimals&usg=__SMIICy7FfdlLaKTcq5WCdIbhEDE=&h=200&w=200&sz=27&hl=en&start=15&um=1&tbnid=nv42wA0Pmps-qM:&tbnh=104&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dimage%2Bof%2Bchoking%2Bthe%2Bchicken% 26hl%3Den%26rls%3DHPIA,HPIA:2008-52,HPIA:en%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1)
already trying to flex his powers, spoil all the fun

Hawkmoon

4th July 2009, 15:51

Well, that would make you a heretic.

St. Thomas (II-II:11:1) defines heresy: "a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Ferrari, corrupt its dogmas"

Burn him!!!!!!!!!

I hereby uphold Inquisitor Tamburello's accusation of heresy and sentence the accused to death by fire. In this way his soul may be cleansed and he will become true Tifosi in the afterlife. Brother Ioan if you would be so good as to get the matches......

:hot:

(We need more "firey" smilies. This one looks like he farted to close to an open flame.)

ioan

4th July 2009, 16:51

I hereby uphold Inquisitor Tamburello's accusation of heresy and sentence the accused to death by fire. In this way his soul may be cleansed and he will become true Tifosi in the afterlife. Brother Ioan if you would be so good as to get the matches......

:hot:

(We need more "firey" smilies. This one looks like he farted to close to an open flame.)

I'll add gallon gas if you guys agree! :D

jas123f1

5th July 2009, 19:44

I'm a Ferrari fan. always been, no matter who drove for them.
You're a Kimi fan and you would sh!t on Ferrari if he wasn't driving for them.

See the difference?! :rolleyes:

Yes, that's right Ferrari isn't any religion for me, but as long they are like to day (not like before, when Schumi was no one, two, three and Rubens some where on the fifth place when we speak of drivers position in the team :) - I never want to be that kind of tifosi because I like to keep my own view for the motorsport and there is no place for things like that..

But so far Ferrari is making a good job Kimi and Massa and keep the sportsmanship in their mind.. and I really think Schumi should stay at home, however things are not going better with him..

I have every GP from last 10 years on the tape, and i know what i’m speaking
…
So, for sure i'm not that kind of tifosi.. :) and i don't like to be qualified to one either .. :)

ioan

5th July 2009, 21:13

... and I really think Schumi should stay at home, however things are not going better with him..

Lot of rubbish.
You hate the guy, fine, take your garbage somewhere else, please. This thread isn't for expressing your frustrations over someone who was by far the gratest Ferrari, and F1 driver, up to date.

jens

6th July 2009, 13:58

and I really think Schumi should stay at home, however things are not going better with him..

Hey, you have some harsh demands. He wants to have some fun too, not to sit at home all the time! :p :

jas123f1

6th July 2009, 14:19

Lot of rubbish.
You hate the guy, fine, take your garbage somewhere else, please. This thread isn't for expressing your frustrations over someone who was by far the gratest Ferrari, and F1 driver, up to date.

That's only Bu** Sh** -
I newer hate any, but that's right I don't feel any respect for Michael Schumacher as a sportsman - but I can agree that his very god driver - but I can't agree that he is a very god sportsman.. if you can see the difference between thus things ?

It’s rubbish to say that I should hate him for that – no – I don't hate him or respect him – that’s all.. because he use Rubens to his own winnings and no one can honest say to me that he didn’t – not even you - because he did and today are some people waiting that Ferrari would be the same (I think even you). 

I agreed that when one of the driver not have any chance to title – THEN he can ( and should) drive to the team – but not from beginning of season as Schumi wanted it ..

So you can stop to speak rubbish of every one who don't like Schumacher.. he is not a god sportsman .. maybe a businessman but that’s an other story..

ioan

6th July 2009, 14:30

That's only Bu** Sh** -
I newer hate any, but that's right I don't feel any respect for Michael Schumacher as a sportsman - but I can agree that his very god driver - but I can't agree that he is a very god sportsman.. if you can see the difference between thus things ?

It’s rubbish to say that I should hate him for that – no – I don't hate him or respect him – that’s all.. because he use Rubens to his own winnings and no one can honest say to me that he didn’t – not even you - because he did and today are some people waiting that Ferrari would be the same (I think even you). 

I agreed that when one of the driver not have any chance to title – THEN he can ( and should) drive to the team – but not from beginning of season as Schumi wanted it ..

So you can stop to speak rubbish of every one who don't like Schumacher.. he is not a god sportsman .. maybe a businessman but that’s an other story..

You're full of hate even if you deny it, you're no Ferrari fan either as you can't seem to grasp anything about what Ferrari stands for.

ioan

6th July 2009, 14:32

Hey, you have some harsh demands. He wants to have some fun too, not to sit at home all the time! :p :

The guy's a Kimi fanatic, one of those who were dreaming about how Kimi is the best there is and he would destroy MS, now he can't stand seeing MS while Kimi is losing to Felipe. ;)

jas123f1

6th July 2009, 14:40

You're full of hate even if you deny it, you're no Ferrari fan either as you can't seem to grasp anything about what Ferrari stands for.

As i wrote "You can stop to speak rubbish of every one who don't like Schumacher" .. I wrote is truth and that’s why you rather start to speak rubbish of me..

What Ferrari stands for ? "Schumacher time" was not something to "stands for" - but to day Ferrari team is like the other teams and I hope it's will so..

Tazio

6th July 2009, 18:56

"Schumacher time" was not something to "stands for"
Mikes time at Ferrari was the stuff that dreams are made of.
His trespasses are overwhelmingly surpassed by his brilliance as a driver, and car developer!
IMO Mike was the best, and his records bear that out! JMHO

ioan

6th July 2009, 19:14

Mikes time at Ferrari was the stuff that dreams are made of.
His trespasses are overwhelmingly surpassed by his brilliance as a driver, and car developer!
IMO Mike was the best, and his records bear that out! JMHO

And you are right! But I won't hold my breath for the guy above to understand this, ever.

ioan

6th July 2009, 21:05

I think its a bit harsh to accuse a fellow ferrari fan of not being 'true' because they have an opinion that MS was not a good sportsman.

But we aren't accusing any fellow Ferrari fan! ;)

7th July 2009, 09:26

It's pretty obvious that the poster in question didn't support Ferrari when Schumi was driving.

That means he isn't Tifosi.

555-04Q2

7th July 2009, 10:47

You are very right when you say his record qualifies him as the best, but his career was not perfect. He once said he is a totally different person inside the cockpit, and a person he may not always like. I think its a bit harsh to accuse a fellow ferrari fan of not being 'true' because they have an opinion that MS was not a good sportsman. That claim is not unfounded and without reason of course, so this reaction is a little rich.

Ferrari is about nostalgia and history and so much more than MS alone. Some of the greatest drivers in the history of grand prix racing have had the prancing horse on the bonnet, so I think being a Tifosi should be about Ferrari rather than the MS years (1996-2006)...IMO

Chill out guys :s mokin:

MS was not and is not Ferrari. He was merely a freakishly great driver who helped mould the team to the success they achieved while he was there. Ferrari now carries on, MS has retired. The team is bigger than the drivers.

555-04Q2

7th July 2009, 10:59

Fair enough point, but what do 'Ferrari F1 fans' interprit by the term Tifosi?
Is it the same as in football, cycling etc etc?

Is it seen as some sort of religion, following, cult or what?

Put plainly, a true Tifosi will support Ferrari no matter who drivers for the team. You can have 2 d!cks in the drivers seats, but the team is still sacred. I still support Ferrari to the hilt, even though currently they have a driver who doesnt meet my approval.

DexDexter

7th July 2009, 14:21

ioan

7th July 2009, 14:55

Talking about Tifosis, how many Tifosis are there in Italy?

Probably more than the population of Finland! :D

DexDexter

7th July 2009, 15:27

Probably more than the population of Finland! :D

Yep, no doubt but I'm just interested in how big F1/Ferrari really is in Italy. Based on what I saw, F1 is a bigger thing here in Finland than it is in Italy.

BTCC2

7th July 2009, 18:15

Yep, no doubt but I'm just interested in how big F1/Ferrari really is in Italy. Based on what I saw, F1 is a bigger thing here in Finland than it is in Italy.

I was lucky enough to be in Italy in I think it was 2002 when Michael Schumacher won in the Ferrari at Imola and the streets were full of people driving round with Ferrari flags hanging out of the car and people jumping around in the streets.

Tazio

7th July 2009, 19:04

Put plainly, a true Tifosi will support Ferrari no matter who drivers for the team. You can have 2 d!cks in the drivers seats, but the team is still sacred. I still support Ferrari to the hilt, even though currently they have a driver who doesnt meet my approval.As I have stated numerous times on this Forum I will pull for any driver Ferrari trots out there.

You are very right when you say his record qualifies him as the best, but his career was not perfect. He once said he is a totally different person inside the cockpit, and a person he may not always like. I think its a bit harsh to accuse a fellow ferrari fan of not being 'true' because they have an opinion that MS was not a good sportsman. That claim is not unfounded and without reason of course, so this reaction is a little rich.

Ferrari is about nostalgia and history and so much more than MS alone. Some of the greatest drivers in the history of grand prix racing have had the prancing horse on the bonnet, so I think being a Tifosi should be about Ferrari rather than the MS years (1996-2006)...IMO

Chill out guys

I joined this conversation a little late so perhaps I spoke out of place I'm 55 I'm aware of Ferrari and their storied past. Seen a lot of the greats drive for them including Jean Alesi, Alain Prost, Niki Lauda, Gerhard Berger,
Nigel Mansell, Gilles Villeneuve, Jody Scheckter and Jacky Ickx, with vague memories of Hill and Surtees, just to mention a few.

But my comment was in support of Ioan's in the context of the current crop of Ferrari drivers. You could make negative comments about the sportsmanship of a few of the others I listed. The point is Ferrari fans don't really give a shi+.
We prefer results.

BTW Why did you suggest while quoting my post the need to chill.
I don't believe I was the least bit agitated :confused:
Peace my man!

Tazio

7th July 2009, 21:54

I wasn't necessarily telling you to chill Tazio, its just the way all these threads seem to end up once a debate kicks in. Someone has a difference of opinion often regarding Ferrari and then the chosen few naturally retaliate by bringing Lewis Hamilton into the equation and what a bad boy he is, and those lying Mclaren boys are a load of 'wrong-un's' etc etc.. It all just starts getting stale and boring. I mentioned MS just to simply state that people should look further into the past to get a sense of what Ferrari is all about. You know this only too well being a man of 55 so please don't feel I was suggesting you were foaming at the mouth with anger during the previous posts. ;)

You say Ferrari fans don't give a sh*t well I think on the contrary they are very emotional as a group as they will defend ferrari to the hilt regardless of facts. The passion is obviously there in order for them to be cassed as a Tifosi I would imagine. I'm just a fan btw :)

PS why was Hill mentioned along with all the other ex-Ferrari drivers?
I hear what you’re saying that's why I stay out of these threads after they start morphing (which they inevitably do) ;)
As to my “give a $hit” reference;
I was simply overstating that Ferrari Fans are apt to overlook “alleged cheating” and other innuendo, if the end result is a championship!
I’ll never knock Patrese or Williams for the help he gave Mansell!

BTW I was referring to Phil Hill ;)

pino

8th July 2009, 06:22

Talking about Tifosis, how many Tifosis are there in Italy? Could some of our Italian posters shed light on the matter. We foreigners hear that Italy is Ferrari mad and full of Tifosis... Well I was in Italy in 2008 and watched a race in a bar and people didn't seem to care that much about F1, the overwhelming majority in the bar I was didn't bother to watch the two Ferraris leading. And when Massa won the race there were no vespas going around with Italian/Ferrari flags. When Italy won a football game, things were quite different.

First of all most italian are watching F1 at home, not in a Bar or Pub. Then F1 fans in Italy are acting a bit different than crazy football fans. Also considering that Ferrari have won a lot in the past 10 years, their fans are used to see them on top podium, and they don't get too excited anymore :p :

As for how many "Tifosi" lives in Italy, I can't answer that but the average TV spectators for a F1 GP at the moment is about 9 mill, and I believe that 95% of them are Ferrari Fans. So I don't think that F1 in Finland is bigger than in Italy, but if you still not sure about it...visit Monza for the Italian GP then ;)

pino

8th July 2009, 06:30

btw Tifosi means Fans and if you're referring to 1 fan so it's 1 tifoso...so I am a tifoso ;)

DexDexter

8th July 2009, 07:18

btw Tifosi means Fans and if you're referring to 1 fan so it's 1 tifoso...so I am a tifoso ;)

Thanks for the info.

Dzeidzei

8th July 2009, 07:40

You're full of hate even if you deny it, you're no Ferrari fan either as you can't seem to grasp anything about what Ferrari stands for.

This thread is becoming both hilarious and sad. I thought -as you guys seem to claim- that a true tifoso love´s Ferrari no matter who´s driving. So in theory a fan could dislike MS just as you dislike Kimi. And that´s perfectly fine. Just dont get so damn hypocrite about it. Very few people here have opinions as colored and biased as you. And even that´s fine. It does make reading the forum more fun, believe me.

Id never call myself a tifoso. Ive always cheered for the Finnish drivers and their teams at the time. But I do like Ferrari and know their meaning to the sport. I did cheer for the team before and just loved Alesi in red. But I never liked MS. He´s without a doubt the greatest F1 driver ever, but a lot about him and the way he competed is disgraceful. Still he lifted Ferrari to glory and needs huge credit for that.

And most of all, its only sport. Good fun on Sundays at its best. Lately mainly sad political bullsiht.

pino

8th July 2009, 09:06

This thread is becoming both hilarious and sad. I thought -as you guys seem to claim- that a true tifoso love´s Ferrari no matter who´s driving. So in theory a fan could dislike MS just as you dislike Kimi. And that´s perfectly fine. Just dont get so damn hypocrite about it. Very few people here have opinions as colored and biased as you. And even that´s fine. It does make reading the forum more fun, believe me.

Id never call myself a tifoso. Ive always cheered for the Finnish drivers and their teams at the time. But I do like Ferrari and know their meaning to the sport. I did cheer for the team before and just loved Alesi in red. But I never liked MS. He´s without a doubt the greatest F1 driver ever, but a lot about him and the way he competed is disgraceful. Still he lifted Ferrari to glory and needs huge credit for that.

And most of all, its only sport. Good fun on Sundays at its best. Lately mainly sad political bullsiht.

Great post that I almost agree with :up:

ioan

8th July 2009, 10:30

This thread is becoming both hilarious and sad. I thought -as you guys seem to claim- that a true tifoso love´s Ferrari no matter who´s driving. So in theory a fan could dislike MS just as you dislike Kimi.

I don't dislike Kimi, however I strongly believe that he should do better in that Ferrari he drives.

From this up to posting BS like jas did about MS there is a long way, and he has a history of hateful posts towards MS.

The problem of the Kimi fans, as I see it, is that as soon as someone dares to question his performance you get very touchy and start to be personal with the poster even if he never ever did insult you or Kimi for that matter.
If you guys manage to take criticism the way Kimi can do it than I think we will get along well, if you continue feeling like you were Kimi's family members and need to shoot anyone who criticizes him, that I'm afraid that this place will never be a place you will like.

ioan

8th July 2009, 15:32

I think you may have missunderstood what was said here because you are virtually repeating what Dzeidzei is saying but on a different side.. Kimi fans may get touchy when their driver is being criticised but the same can be said for MS fans like yourself.

The difference being that so called Ferrari fans accuse MS of some dreamed up never verified things while all we say about Kimi is that he isn't performing well enough.

Tell me why is anyone getting stroppy when you say their fave driver is slow and that is true?!

How does that compare with saying MS should stay home because jasxyz doesn't like him?

Spot the difference?

8th July 2009, 20:04

Schumacher never got accused of not trying.

If he had a fault, which he did, it was that he didn't know when to stop.

Kimi doesn't know when to start.

One approach will gain admiration & respect from the Tifosi, even though there were times when it was too much.

The other never will.

ioan

8th July 2009, 22:45

Telling people they are not true Tifosi because they disagree with you, will get us nowhere.. Every driver has their faults and Kimi is also one of them ;)

People who criticize (I use a mild expression as you can see ;) ) Ferrari and their best ever driver while excusing the laziest ever Ferrari driver are not Tifosi they are just lazy driver fanboys. Care to contradict me? I'm open for a discussion! ;)

DexDexter

9th July 2009, 08:29

Ioan's message seems to be "if you don't agree with me, get out!" :)

ioan

9th July 2009, 08:34

I'm not excusing Kimi in any way here,...

And I wasn't talking about you either! ;)

but I feel we are not in a position to judge performances this season with the car being so bad and neither driver doing particularly well. Last season however was a slump in his performance but thats due to driver preferences.

Now you are excusing him. :D

...but the original point you were trying to make was because something slightly negative was said about MS, means this person cannot be a true Tifosi.. How ridiculous is that?

It's not ridiculous at all, because jas... isn't and will never be a Ferrari fan, let alone a Tifoso, he hates Ferrari and he hates MS, he only finds himself in teh situation of being a Kimi fan and if you look back to 2006 posts about Kimi going to Ferrari you'll see that 95% of his fans were trashing Ferrari left, right and center, and even now they are more McLaren fans than Ferrari fans. In conclusion they never were, and never will be Tifosi!

The true Tifosi are the 'Italian' fans supporting their countrymen, not someone for example who owns a Ferrari t-shirt, a Schumacher hat, a keyring, eats at an Italian resturant every week, and lives in Doncaster... Everyone else are merely considered fans or fanboys, which ever takes your fancy.. ;)

So you don't understand what a Tifoso is.

It has nothing to do with being Italian and supporting fellow Italians. It's about supporting Ferrari, no matter who drives or works for them. It's a about sticking with the Ferrari team no matter what.

Hopefully now you understand it better.

9th July 2009, 10:23

Thats all gravy my man but is it ok to follow a driver rather than a team? If I had a favourite driver and he moved to Maranello and I wanted to carry on cheering him on, would that be accepted by the Tifosi? It seems to be the perception that if someone drives for Ferrari, you have to be a die hard Tifoso in order to have respect and be considered a fan.. I'm sure if Massa moved to Mclaren, most of his supporters in Brazil would swap allegence pretty prompt if you ask me. Especially if he was in a position to win a WDC. I can understand with Ferrari its very different and they seem to have 'Team fans' unlike the other teams due to their long history. I suppose Italy has also had a long drought of WDC's (not a dig btw) and they have a dominant, prestigious team like Ferrari instead, so their fanbase is more central to the team...

It just goes to show the differences in the fans across the world :)

Ferrari became iconic due to the state of post-war Italy. The achievements of the Ferrari team during a time of economic hardship became a symbol of Italian pride when, quite frankly, there was feck all else to be proud about.

Now, when it comes to the Tifosi, it is ingrained that the team is more important than the driver.

A 'fan' of a driver who becomes a Ferrari driver is not a Tifosi unless they continue to support Ferrari once that driver leaves.

If they don't, then they are not fans of the team. That means they cannot be Tifosi.

The title of this thread states "Ferrari Fans Thread". It perhaps could have been better defined as 'Tifosi Thread', but it does clearly indicate that it is for supporters of Ferrari, the team.

Dzeidzei

9th July 2009, 10:50

A 'fan' of a driver who becomes a Ferrari driver is not a Tifosi unless they continue to support Ferrari once that driver leaves.

If they don't, then they are not fans of the team. That means they cannot be Tifosi.

The title of this thread states "Ferrari Fans Thread". It perhaps could have been better defined as 'Tifosi Thread', but it does clearly indicate that it is for supporters of Ferrari, the team.

That is perfectly fine as a decription. Im a fan of Kimi (and Heikki and Nico, bytheway) and because of that also a Ferrari fan. I think becoming wdc in a Ferrari is the biggest thing you can achieve as a F1 driver and Im very happy Kimi did achieve that.

At the same time it sickens me to see Kimi´s mediocre performance nowadays. He only gets close to his old driving occasionally. Thats not even close enough for any fan and certainly not the tifosi.

Im not touchy about Kimi´s success (or the lack of it) at the moment. It just piss** me off. Theres no way I can accept that Kimi and Felipe are fighting for the last points. Its podiums and wins I want.

In that way I share what the tifosi feel.

ioan

9th July 2009, 11:03

That is perfectly fine as a decription. Im a fan of Kimi (and Heikki and Nico, bytheway) and because of that also a Ferrari fan. I think becoming wdc in a Ferrari is the biggest thing you can achieve as a F1 driver and Im very happy Kimi did achieve that.

At the same time it sickens me to see Kimi´s mediocre performance nowadays. He only gets close to his old driving occasionally. Thats not even close enough for any fan and certainly not the tifosi.

Im not touchy about Kimi´s success (or the lack of it) at the moment. It just piss** me off. Theres no way I can accept that Kimi and Felipe are fighting for the last points. Its podiums and wins I want.

In that way I share what the tifosi feel.

That's fair and I agree with you on this one.

To put things straight I don't dislike Kimi, I really like him as a person (for as much as I can know him), but I'd wish he lifted his game a bit.

I never expected Kimi to be as dominant as MS but didn't expect Felipe to dominate him as much as this either.

Garry Walker

9th July 2009, 13:50

I never expected Kimi to be as dominant as MS but didn't expect Felipe to dominate him as much as this either.

Neither Felipe or Kimi is dominating each other.
KR was the better driver in 2007. Felipe in 2008.
So far this year they have been around equal.

They are both very good drivers, who can also play the team game, instead of that bitching monobrow

markabilly

9th July 2009, 15:41

Ferrari became iconic due to the state of post-war Italy. The achievements of the Ferrari team during a time of economic hardship became a symbol of Italian pride when, quite frankly, there was feck all else to be proud about.

Now, when it comes to the Tifosi, it is ingrained that the team is more important than the driver.

A 'fan' of a driver who becomes a Ferrari driver is not a Tifosi unless they continue to support Ferrari once that driver leaves.

If they don't, then they are not fans of the team. That means they cannot be Tifosi.

The title of this thread states "Ferrari Fans Thread". It perhaps could have been better defined as 'Tifosi Thread', but it does clearly indicate that it is for supporters of Ferrari, the team.

and so, given the current situ with max, ferrari and your position, you would not qualify as Tifosi since you do not support them against max

as it "should be ingrained that the team is even more important than" either the driver or the mere head nut case of the fia.

9th July 2009, 19:48

and so, given the current situ with max, ferrari and your position, you would not qualify as Tifosi since you do not support them against max

as it "should be ingrained that the team is even more important than" either the driver or the mere head nut case of the fia.

I'll support Ferrari no matter what series they appear in.

However, I won't be keen on them forcing the governing body into actions that I do not beleive benefit the long term future of the sport...........just as I'm not keen on them employing a certain Finn and wish they wouldn't (but come Sunday I'll still want him to win).

It is possible to be a devoted Tifosi and think that Luca is wrong.

ioan

10th July 2009, 13:25

Ferrari are running a few major updates today:

1. New nose cone
2. New front wing
3. New undertray

ioan

10th July 2009, 14:36

Not the best lap times but given Domenicalli's positive mood and comments it looks like they know what they are doing.

555-04Q2

10th July 2009, 15:05

but given Domenicalli's positive mood and comments it looks like they know what they are doing.

Lets hope they do !!!

jens

10th July 2009, 15:50

ioan

11th July 2009, 14:02

This wasn't a great showing from Ferrari in qualifying. Did they fill them up for the whole race or what?!

Garry Walker

11th July 2009, 14:04

Anyway, Alonso's move to Ferrari is a very interesting prospect and could remind more of that old "Ferrari aura" for me that I liked so much again - but I'm not sure. If I think about it - for example 2010 title battle: Vettel (RBR) vs Alonso (Ferrari). I think I'd still cheer for Vettel, who I still like more as a driver and unlike Ferrari RBR hasn't won any titles either (if they don't happen to win in 2009).

If alonso joins Ferrari, I will at once start hating Ferrari (although I would find it impossible to cheer against Massa) and would openly gloat about every problem his side of the garage has.
Alonso vs Vettel title battle would be awful, two of the drivers I most dislike in F1.

Dissapointing qualy.
At least it was funny to see Alonso spinning.

ioan

11th July 2009, 14:07

Luckily they didn't give up on KERS, with the very very long run to the first corner they can make up a few places.

On a side note I think we will see Hamilton lead the field out of turn 1.

Garry Walker

11th July 2009, 14:08

Luckily they didn't give up on KERS, with the very very long run to the first corner they can make up a few places.

On a side note I think we will see Hamilton lead the field out of turn 1.

Lets hope Hamilton doesnt do his usual kamikaze into the first corner (like he did at japan last year)

11th July 2009, 14:10

If alonso joins Ferrari, I will at once start hating Ferrari

Then you are not a Ferrari fan.

Garry Walker

11th July 2009, 14:13

Then you are not a Ferrari fan.
I never claimed I was.

I started supporting Ferrari when Schumacher joined it and I liked Massa (and now Kimi aswell). If they pick a driver I hate, yeah, I will have no problems laughing at Ferraris failures.

ioan

11th July 2009, 14:37

Then you are not a Ferrari fan.

Nothing new, he's very driver oriented, he loves some of them and hates the others.

Garry Walker

11th July 2009, 14:43

Nothing new, he's very driver oriented, he loves some of them and hates the others.

Loves? I dont love any driver :D

I just find supporting real people over teams who dont really have any "persona" much better.

ioan

11th July 2009, 14:46

Loves? I dont love any driver :D

I just find supporting real people over teams who dont really have any "persona" much better.

Last time I checked the teams were made up by people working there.

Garry Walker

11th July 2009, 15:02

Last time I checked the teams were made up by people working there.

People change. Ferrari under Jean Todt or Stefano domenicali as teambosses is very different. Not to mention Enzo Ferrari, who was not exactly the perfect person.

If martin whitmarsh and Ron Dennis by some accident became the leaders of Ferrari, would you still support Ferrari?

ioan

11th July 2009, 15:07

If martin whitmarsh and Ron Dennis by some accident became the leaders of Ferrari, would you still support Ferrari?

Yes I would, as my support to them didn't start with Domenicalli, Jean Todt nor Luca di Monetzemolo.

11th July 2009, 15:10

Not to mention Enzo Ferrari, who was not exactly the perfect person.

Blasphemer!!!!!!

If martin whitmarsh and Ron Dennis by some accident became the leaders of Ferrari, would you still support Ferrari?

Yes, because then they'd be -

A) our cheating, lying scumbags
B) Would evidently have had a Road-to-Damascus moment.
C) Would have repented all their sins.

markabilly

11th July 2009, 16:23

Like I said earleir, freddie will replace kimi

Kimi will replace RB at brawn and brawn will up the ritalin dosage

Will that make Tamb happy?

the only question is whether Vettel might replace massa next year or the year after...

Tazio

11th July 2009, 17:49

Blasphemer!!!!!!

Yes, because then they'd be -

A) our cheating, lying scumbags
B) Would evidently have had a Road-to-Damascus moment.
C) Would have repented all their sins.You forgot to mention a special dispensation by the Vatican. :laugh:

F1boat

12th July 2009, 14:46

Great podium :)

Garry Walker

12th July 2009, 14:50

Yes I would.

Well, I can never support a team like that, it just does not make any sense to me.

ioan

12th July 2009, 14:52

Well well, it looks like the Ferrari might not have the best qualifying pace but for sure has great race pace!

Well done Felipe 2nd time in a row a great drive.
A pity for Kimi's engine problem, I had a feeling when I saw the smoke for a brief moment at the entry of the chicane, I really hoped it was not that bad.

Garry Walker

12th July 2009, 14:54

Good drives by both guys and a very good podium for Felipe.
Shame for Kimis car problems and Sutil driving like an idiot into him.

donKey jote

12th July 2009, 15:18

Well done Massa and Alonso...

oops a year too soon :p :

pino

12th July 2009, 18:00

Amazing performance by Massa...bravo ! :up:

jas123f1

12th July 2009, 22:39

Great drive of Felipe :up: , at last a podium, not one day to early.
Sad that Kimi had problem with his engine the team loosed some point(s)..

I must also say i like the style Vettel have – he looks for me very much as a future WDC… :) (I know that Webber was better today) but I personally should like to see him in a Ferrari one day (in fact rather him than Alonso), when the latest Ferrari WDC leave – probably after one and half year.

555-04Q2

13th July 2009, 12:26

Other than Kimi's unfortunate failure, a good weekend for Ferrari :up: Kudo's to Massa for a great drive :up: He just keeps getting better and better :)

555-04Q2

13th July 2009, 12:29

Not to mention Enzo Ferrari, who was not exactly the perfect person.

They'll hang you for that comment mate :p :

ioan

13th July 2009, 13:16

They'll hang you for that comment mate :p :

He's not worth the rope and the soap needed for that. :D

Tazio

13th July 2009, 18:13

Here is an explanation of Kimi's failier:

THE DRIVERS Massa and Raikkonen are also asking the same questions. The former did well to finish on the podium while the latter was unlucky in hitting a piece of detritus which punctured his radiator
Not even Ferrari's fault (if true) :uhoh:
Sucks dude! :(

http://english.gazzetta.it/Motor_sports/13-07-2009/domenicali-aims-low-massa-at-least-one-victory-50754632014.shtml

Roamy

13th July 2009, 18:37

ioan

13th July 2009, 19:00

Massa has been underrated his whole career because he sucks in the rain. They need to stick him in a formula atlantic and flood the track in italy and make him drive for days on end. But he was quick enough to displace Kimi. Wonder where Kimi will go next year. Maybe even retire.

Massa did well last season at Monza and this season in China (as long as the engine kept going) in the rain.

He also did well back in 2003 (I think) in the US GP on a wet track.
Just because he had a poor race in Silverstone in 2008 it doesn't mean it's always like that, look at Alonso in Japan 2007 he hit the wall and Raikkonen last season as Spa did the same.

jens

14th July 2009, 19:24

Massa was supreme and has been performing like a real top ace this year. It's quite extraordinary that a driver of his age and experience still keeps improving every year. Every season it's said that now "this is his level, these are his weaknesses" and some have added he'll never become a champ or whatever. :p : But it looks like there is no stopping him. His race pace has been downplayed in the past, but now he has no trouble in matching or beating Räikkönen's race pace, regardless of the circuit. Besides that - no inconsistencies occur in Massa's performances from race-to-race.

Alonso would be a perfect benchmark for the new improved Massa - if Felipe beats the driver, who many consider as the most complete one on the grid, FM will establish himself as one of the true greats on the grid. Kimi as a benchmark has been beaten, a new and stronger one is needed for a new judgement. :p :

Alas it looks like the 'battle' for P3 in WCC is over - it will be an easy walk for Ferrari.

ShiftingGears

15th July 2009, 03:52

Massa did well last season at Monza and this season in China (as long as the engine kept going) in the rain.

He also did well back in 2003 (I think) in the US GP on a wet track.
Just because he had a poor race in Silverstone in 2008 it doesn't mean it's always like that, look at Alonso in Japan 2007 he hit the wall and Raikkonen last season as Spa did the same.

His best wet weather performance was Brazil 2008, easily.

DexDexter

15th July 2009, 11:11

555-04Q2

15th July 2009, 11:16

Massa didn't/hasn't displaced Kimi. if Kimi goes, it's due to many things, not Felipe.

I dont know, when the #2 driver starts regulary beating the #1 driver the way Massa has for the last 14 months or so, it starts getting into your head.

wedge

15th July 2009, 11:38

Just because he had a poor race in Silverstone in 2008 it doesn't mean it's always like that, look at Alonso in Japan 2007 he hit the wall and Raikkonen last season as Spa did the same.

Crap comparisons.

Massa span off 7 times at Silverstone who was going nowhere except backwards which is amateur stuff compared to Alonso who was trying to keep up with Hamilton; even Raikkonen had a good excuse because he desperately wanted to win at Spa and being on the limit means your more vunerable to mistakes.

Oh and before calling me a Massa-hater (again) I completely agree with Jens. I'm constantly amazed how Massa is like good wine, improving better with age.

Hawkmoon

15th July 2009, 12:11

Crap comparisons.

Massa span off 7 times at Silverstone who was going nowhere except backwards which is amateur stuff compared to Alonso who was trying to keep up with Hamilton; even Raikkonen had a good excuse because he desperately wanted to win at Spa and being on the limit means your more vunerable to mistakes.

Oh and before calling me a Massa-hater (again) I completely agree with Jens. I'm constantly amazed how Massa is like good wine, improving better with age.

He spun 5 times at Silverstone last year not 7 and Hamilton spun 4 times this year. It happens to the best of them on occaison.

Massa is a pleasant surprise. When they announced he was replacing Barrichello I was rather nonplussed. Fast forward 3 seasons and I'm looking forward to a Massa/Alonso lineup. Raikkonen has been a flash in the pan. He'll always have the respect of being a Ferrari world champion but his time at Maranello will end on a disappointing note. Sad really because he could be so bloody fast at times.

SGWilko

15th July 2009, 12:20

SGWilko

15th July 2009, 12:29

Sad really because he could be so bloody fast at times.

Indeed, think of all those times he started from the back of the grid due to engine failure in qually/practice and he made his way to the front to win....

jens

15th July 2009, 13:30

But the difference between GBR'08 and CHN '09 is that Hamilton was at least reasonably quick and faster than his team-mate, when he wasn't spinning. And despite spins he still finished 6th. But Massa was just plain slow besides spins and finished a lap behind everyone! Hamilton's drive was far better. I am personally not finding any excuses to that Silverstone'08 - it was an extremely **** drive by all accounts, even Yoong could have fared better.

Ranger

15th July 2009, 13:56

Sad really because he could be so bloody fast at times.

I watched the entire 2005 Japanese Grand Prix on youtube again fairly recently.

And I wondered where that fire has gone.

wedge

15th July 2009, 14:19

He spun 5 times at Silverstone last year not 7 and Hamilton spun 4 times this year. It happens to the best of them on occaison.

http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=James_Allen&id=45624

It’s easy to be critical, as people were of Felipe Massa last year at Silverstone when he spun off seven times.

Sorry but spinning off seven times in one race is hardly acceptable. That makes you a laughing stock, especially when you're a mobile chicane, fighting for WDC.

And to be fair to Lewis with most of his spins in China, he was his typical hot headed self trying to overtake and over doing it.

Yes, it happens to the best I remember Schumi aquaplaned off at the infamous river in Brazil 2003 but I hardly remember Schumi in an ill handling car making a fool of himself by spinning off left, right and centre on his own accord.

555-04Q2

15th July 2009, 15:45

Crap comparisons.

Massa span off 7 times at Silverstone who was going nowhere except backwards which is amateur stuff compared to Alonso who was trying to keep up with Hamilton; even Raikkonen had a good excuse because he desperately wanted to win at Spa and being on the limit means your more vunerable to mistakes.

Oh and before calling me a Massa-hater (again) I completely agree with Jens. I'm constantly amazed how Massa is like good wine, improving better with age.

Every driver has an off day. Even the greatest drivers had races where they embarrassed themselves. The Silverstone race is one of those days Massa would rather forget.

Hell we all have those days at work from time to time. I agree with your wine comment though, he is becoming a rather handy racer :up:

555-04Q2

15th July 2009, 15:48

Sorry but spinning off seven times in one race is hardly acceptable. That makes you a laughing stock, especially when you're a mobile chicane, fighting for WDC.

And to be fair to Lewis with most of his spins in China, he was his typical hot headed self trying to overtake and over doing it.

Yes, it happens to the best I remember Schumi aquaplaned off at the infamous river in Brazil 2003 but I hardly remember Schumi in an ill handling car making a fool of himself by spinning off left, right and centre on his own accord.

Man I wish I was perfect like you :laugh:

DexDexter

15th July 2009, 19:19

I dont know, when the #2 driver starts regulary beating the #1 driver the way Massa has for the last 14 months or so, it starts getting into your head.

Maybe, but a Spanish bank willing to put zillions of dollars into your team maybe has something to do with it.

jens

15th July 2009, 20:01

I watched the entire 2005 Japanese Grand Prix on youtube again fairly recently.

And I wondered where that fire has gone.

Err, wasn't that McLaren the fastest car in the field? It doesn't mean his "fire" has gone somewhere as F1 is largely car-dependant. Button and many other drivers have looked supreme in dominant cars as well. Doesn't mean they are worse in inferior cars or that their driving skills are unmatchable in a great car.

wedge

16th July 2009, 00:15

Man I wish I was perfect like you :laugh:

No I'm not perfect but people like Schumi and Senna have set the standard.

When Schumi made mistakes it wasn't because he ran out of talent.

ioan

16th July 2009, 08:28

Crap comparisons.

Massa span off 7 times at Silverstone who was going nowhere except backwards which is amateur stuff compared to Alonso who was trying to keep up with Hamilton...

And he hit the wall like a Piquet Jr. :rotflmao:
You're making up crap excuses to a crap performance! :wave:

ioan

16th July 2009, 08:28

Man I wish I was perfect like you :laugh:

:D :up:

ioan

16th July 2009, 08:31

He spun 5 times at Silverstone last year not 7 and Hamilton spun 4 times this year. It happens to the best of them on occaison.

Massa is a pleasant surprise. When they announced he was replacing Barrichello I was rather nonplussed. Fast forward 3 seasons and I'm looking forward to a Massa/Alonso lineup. Raikkonen has been a flash in the pan. He'll always have the respect of being a Ferrari world champion but his time at Maranello will end on a disappointing note. Sad really because he could be so bloody fast at times.

At the end of 2007 I would have preferred Felipe and Kimi to continue the Ferrari partnership till they hang up the boots, now I'm not sure anymore.
And heck I even cheered for Kimi back in 2005 when he was driving a McLaren!

ioan

16th July 2009, 08:33

No I'm not perfect but people like Schumi and Senna have set the standard.

When Schumi made mistakes it wasn't because he ran out of talent.

Let's not say stupid things.
No one, in F1, does mistakes because they ran out of talent. These guys are very good and nowadays there is no such thing like a pay driver anymore. They are all very good drivers and if they make mistakes it isn't because of a lack of talent, it's because of a moment of distraction or because they are trying to overdrive the car.

Roamy

16th July 2009, 08:41

Let's not say stupid things.
No one, in F1, does mistakes because they ran out of talent. These guys are very good and nowadays there is no such thing like a pay driver anymore. They are all very good drivers and if they make mistakes it isn't because of a lack of talent, it's because of a moment of distraction or because they are trying to overdrive the car.

Right ioan and we call all of the above "Running out of Talent"

However what you are probably trying to say is "There are no Flies on F1 drivers"

ioan

16th July 2009, 08:45

Right ioan and we call all of the above "Running out of Talent"

Just go back to your golf mobile. And take care not to run out of talent.

wedge

16th July 2009, 12:25

Let's not say stupid things.
No one, in F1, does mistakes because they ran out of talent. These guys are very good and nowadays there is no such thing like a pay driver anymore. They are all very good drivers and if they make mistakes it isn't because of a lack of talent, it's because of a moment of distraction or because they are trying to overdrive the car.

Massa 2006 goes off in Bahrain, Monaco qualy (outlap, IIRC) - unforced errors

Last year he span off at Adelaide on the first lap of the race, at the first corner; mystery off at Malaysia, another unforced error.

Unforced errors does not equal overdriving or distraction.

ioan

16th July 2009, 13:05

Massa 2006 goes off in Bahrain, Monaco qualy (outlap, IIRC) - unforced errors

Last year he span off at Adelaide on the first lap of the race, at the first corner; mystery off at Malaysia, another unforced error.

Unforced errors does not equal overdriving or distraction.

Because you say so?!
Who said there wasn't overdriving, distraction, an error or even a problem with the car?! None of them being anything extraordinary in motor racing.
To be honest I'm laughing my ass of at your feeble attempts at looking like a knowledgeable fan. :rotflmao:

wedge

16th July 2009, 15:25

To be honest I'm laughing my ass of at your feeble attempts at looking like a knowledgeable fan. :rotflmao:

And what makes you a knowledgable fan, O mighty one?

http://sports.in.msn.com/formulaone/stories/article.aspx?cp-documentid=1313247

Ferrari spokesman has finally confirmed that Felipe Massa's Sepang spin was caused fundamentally by driver error.

Ferrari spokesman Luca Colajanni said of Massa's Sepang incident last Sunday: "He went slightly on the kerb exiting turn six and therefore the car stalled (aerodynamically). As a consequence, he lost the rear in turn seven and spun," he added.

ioan

16th July 2009, 15:47

And what makes you a knowledgable fan, O mighty one?

I didn't even say I am. :laugh:

PS: Why do you need to derail threads with such dribble? Can't you start a thread about how XYZ drivers made errors?! I think ferrari fans would appreciate to be able to talk about Ferrari in here, I certainly would. :rolleyes:

wedge

16th July 2009, 16:32

I didn't even say I am. :laugh:

PS: Why do you need to derail threads with such dribble? Can't you start a thread about how XYZ drivers made errors?! I think ferrari fans would appreciate to be able to talk about Ferrari in here, I certainly would. :rolleyes:

What's the matter, can't handle criticism?

I doubt every Ferrari fan/tifosi share the same opinion, I'm sure they'll disagree from time to time. Just as elements within the Republicans disagreed with Bush and those with in Labour disagreed with Blair.

ioan

16th July 2009, 17:32

What's the matter, can't handle criticism?

No problems with criticism, if it's done with use of cognitive processes.

jens

16th July 2009, 19:41

Massa's mistake in Malaysia wasn't a "random" error, because he was overdriving the car. Why? Because Kimi had pitpassed him and Felipe was trying as hard as hell to try to keep up with him.

A totally unforced error is the spin Schumacher did in USA in 2000 for example. A dominant race lead, got bored, lost concentration, and spun.

wedge

16th July 2009, 23:05

A totally unforced error is the spin Schumacher did in USA in 2000 for example. A dominant race lead, got bored, lost concentration, and spun.

And still ended up winning the race! :D

ioan

16th July 2009, 23:31

And still ended up winning the race! :D

Not that this has anything to do with the fact that he made an unforced mistake.

jas123f1

17th July 2009, 11:10

I'm looking forward to a Massa/Alonso lineup. Raikkonen has been a flash in the pan. He'll always have the respect of being a Ferrari world champion but his time at Maranello will end on a disappointing note. Sad really because he could be so bloody fast at times.

Kimi has a year left on his contract and he likes his team – so it’s hard to believe that Kimi will leave Ferrari before the time his contract is over.

If he however will do it, it's possible he does to Rally (driving Fiat? a year or two) or to Brawn (!) - Ross Brawn probably would get him for little money because Ferrari however must pay a greater part of Kimis salary (which said to be app. 30 million euro). So Ross Brawn has a chance to get (not only a team but even a driver who can win the title in a "right" car) almost for free ..

The other thing which is coming in my mind is that: Alonso usually has a first driver position in the team he is driving for and will however never accept a second driver position and I don’t think Felipe do it either – so there is a risk for the same type of conflict Alonso and Lewis had at McLaren if the car will suit better to Felipe than him..
***
So why not sign Vettel to Ferrari to 2011 season. He is a driver for the future.. and hungry to be world driver champion .. and especially in a Ferrari (I think).. and money is not everything … or is it? :)

ioan

17th July 2009, 11:17

I think will have to wait and see how this whole story folds, as everything is possible and nothing is sure.

ioan

17th July 2009, 11:19

jas123f1

18th July 2009, 00:27

Yes, Alesis 2nd place at Monza was Ferrari's best result 1993 but after that has Ferrari at least one win every season.

1994 1 - Gerhard Berger (1) - Jean Alesi (0)
1995 1 - Jean Alesi (1) - Gerhard Berger (0)

1996 3 - Michael Schumacher (3) - Eddie Irvine (0)
1997 5 - Michael Schumacher (5) - Eddie Irvine (0)
1998 6 - Michael Schumacher (6) - Eddie Irvine (0)

1999 6 - Eddie Irvine (4) - Michael Schumacher (2)

2000 10 - Michael Schumacher (9) - Rubens Barrichello (1)
2001 9 - Michael Schumacher (9) - Rubens Barrichello (0)
2002 15 - Michael Schumacher (11) - Rubens Barrichello (4)
2003 8 - Michael Schumacher (6) - Rubens Barrichello (2)
2004 15 - Michael Schumacher (13) - Rubens Barrichello (2)
2005 1 - Michael Schumacher (1) - Rubens Barrichello (0)
2006 7 - Michael Schumacher (7) - Rubens Barrichello (0)

2007 9 - Kimi Raikkonen (6) - Felipe Massa (3)
2008 8 - Felipe Massa (6) - Kimi Raikkonen (2)
2009 ? -

jas123f1

18th July 2009, 00:37

Tazio

18th July 2009, 03:39

Now that Ferrari has decided to give up on developing the F60 and focus on 2010, I can only hope that for some of the ideas and solutions for next year they will find a way to implement them on the F60 in order to keep the drivers motivated and maybe get a win in the right circumstances.
I think that when Ferrari say they have stopped developement on the car.
It means something slightly different than other teams.

Metaphorically speaking I compare it with the line by Miracle Max from The Princess Bride that goes something like this:

6GrYNaaYSjs&feature=related

B T W

LMnCbgaLHww&eurl

ioan

18th July 2009, 18:05

markabilly

18th July 2009, 18:34

Well, I hope they get a victory, but when they say they will concentrate on the 2010 car from now on, IMO it means that they will use ideas from the 2010 project on the F60 but will not lose time searching for developments only meant for the F60.
how can anyone be seriously developing a 2010 car for rules that i am uncertain as to whether they are actually officially and permanently in place?

example--pit stops, refueling???

jens

18th July 2009, 18:42

jas123f1

22nd July 2009, 23:49

Interestingly Ferrari has also always finished in Top3 in WCC since 1994. Quite remarkable consistency, I don't think any other team has ever achieved that. More amazingly it looks like there is no stopping of them to stay in Top3 for many years to come. :p :

As known has both Massa and Raikkonen have repeatedly spoken of a lack of down force in the F60 and now Ferrari has fired the British engineer John Iley - who was the head (responsible?) of aerodynamics and wind tunnel. I
t looks no better that he has to pay “the price” for the poor competitiveness of the F60 under the season 2009.

Among the technical English and Ferrari has made an agreement for an immediate separation, confirmed six days ago after the transfer of the GP of Germany.

At the time the task appears be in the hands of ikolas Tombazis – so far.

:)

23rd July 2009, 10:06

As head Aerodynamicist, Iley was responsible for not interpreting the rules about diffusers.

SGWilko

23rd July 2009, 10:38

As head Aerodynamicist, Iley was responsible for not interpreting the rules about diffusers.

I share your view Tamb, however, had the DDD been deemed illegal, Ferrari and Red Bull would be head of the field.

23rd July 2009, 12:08

Only one team on the grid successfully interpreted the rules correctly, so I don't think that can be a legitimate reason to sack someone.

You've never been an F1 aerodynamicist then.

DexDexter

23rd July 2009, 12:46

As head Aerodynamicist, Iley was responsible for not interpreting the rules about diffusers.

It's great to sack people and all but the question always is do they have anyone better to take his place? I guess it's the Italian way.

Tazio

23rd July 2009, 13:21

It's great to sack people and all but the question always is do they have anyone better to take his place? I guess it's the Italian way.WTF is that supposed to mean?
Please do expound on this national bussiness practice in Italy!
Or guess again!
Because I'm guessing that you are talking out of your @$$

ioan

23rd July 2009, 13:40

WTF is that supposed to mean?
Please do expound on this national bussiness practice in Italy!
Or guess again!
Because I'm guessing that you are talking out of your @$$

He's just thinking that in Italy everything works like in Finland! ;)

Tazio

23rd July 2009, 14:03

He's just thinking that in Italy everything works like in Finland! ;) Good one :)
:rotflmao:

jens

23rd July 2009, 16:14

It's great to sack people and all but the question always is do they have anyone better to take his place? I guess it's the Italian way.

Heh. In the early 90's until Todt's arrival Ferrari was certainly in a bit of a mess. Hopefully the team will be managed better this time. =)

Italian way? Nah, I suppose there is still some way to go before reaching the level of mess Alfa Romeo experienced in the 80's. :p : Or dare I say... Life or Andrea Moda. :hmph:

DexDexter

23rd July 2009, 20:54

WTF is that supposed to mean?
Please do expound on this national bussiness practice in Italy!
Or guess again!
Because I'm guessing that you are talking out of your @$$

Mind your manners, if you have any. Ferrari do have a history of sacking people when something goes wrong. Remember Fiorio, Prost etc.

ioan

23rd July 2009, 21:51

Mind your manners, if you have any. Ferrari do have a history of sacking people when something goes wrong. Remember Fiorio, Prost etc.

Yeah, you are right, history is the right word given that it happened 20 years ago.

DexDexter

24th July 2009, 08:00

Yeah, you are right, history is the right word given that it happened 20 years ago.

It's nice that you are starting to agree with me! I even saw you defending Räikkönen the other day! Wow :)

ioan

24th July 2009, 09:07

I even saw you defending Räikkönen the other day! Wow :)

Must have been a mistake! :p

Seriously, I'll defend both Ferrari drivers as much as possible in a given condition, I'll even defend other drivers if I believe is right, heck I even defended Lewis Hamilton after last race! ;)

Tazio

24th July 2009, 09:26

Mind your manners, if you have any. Ferrari do have a history of sacking people when something goes wrong. Remember Fiorio, Prost etc.You’re the second Smoked Herring this week I heard make an obtuse and insulting reference to Italians
when they meant something less inclusive. I've kicked real men’s @ss's for less.
How do you like those manners you insensitive ill-mannered ignorant pussy.?

ioan

24th July 2009, 09:46

Calm down guys, I don't want the mods to close this thread because of your personal war.

24th July 2009, 10:05

It's great to sack people and all but the question always is do they have anyone better to take his place? I guess it's the Italian way.

Tombazis is no slouch. He worked for Ferrari during the 2000-2003 championship winning years, then went to Mclaren for the 2005 car, then returned to Ferrari.

ioan

24th July 2009, 10:07

Tombazis is no slouch. He worked for Ferrari during the 2000-2003 championship winning years, then went to Mclaren for the 2005 car, then returned to Ferrari.

Exactly.
I once even thought that he might have been on a mission at McLaren, trying to learn what they know and thus have the knowledge of the best 2 teams on the grid.

DexDexter

24th July 2009, 10:49

You’re the second Smoked Herring this week I heard make an obtuse and insulting reference to Italians
when they meant something less inclusive. I've kicked real men’s @ss's for less.
How do you like those manners you insensitive ill-mannered ignorant pussy.?

Again, watch your language son. An American insulted by a sentence "I guess it's the Italian way". You've got serious problems, dear.

ioan

24th July 2009, 11:19

Can't you guys take this to PMs?
It really has nothing to do with this thread.

ioan

24th July 2009, 11:19

Hungarian GP FP1 is over and it isn't looking bad, but it isn't rosy either.

ioan

24th July 2009, 14:32

Abysmal performance in FP2.

wedge

24th July 2009, 14:53

Must have been a mistake! :p

Seriously, I'll defend both Ferrari drivers as much as possible in a given condition, I'll even defend other drivers if I believe is right, heck I even defended Lewis Hamilton after last race! ;)

Prove it! :D

Tazio

24th July 2009, 14:56

Again, watch your language son. An American insulted by a sentence "I guess it's the Italian way". You've got serious problems, dear.Not nearly the kind of problems your bigoted @ss does laddie! :)

ioan

24th July 2009, 15:14

Prove it! :D

It's written black on white in that thread about how Niki Lauda can come up with some of the stupidest comments.

Again, watch your language son. An American insulted by a sentence "I guess it's the Italian way". You've got serious problems, dear.

Not nearly the kind of problems your bigoted @ss does laddie!

Girlies, please take your handbag session out of this thread. :wave:

ioan

24th July 2009, 15:16

Tazio

24th July 2009, 15:23

Let's keep the thread about Ferrari.

They did bad in FP1 and awful in FP2.
Kimi did so so and Felipe was slower in the afternoon than this morning by 3 tenths of a second.

And all this using the softer tire in the afternoon and the harder one in the morning. :\
Don’t go gettin' your panty’s in a bunch ;) ,
barring any failures or collisions both Ferrari's will finish in the points. About like last race,
with Kimi getting the podium this race!

ioan

24th July 2009, 15:33

barring any failures or collisions both Ferrari's will finish in the points. About like last race,
with Kimi getting the podium this race!

Well, maybe I need to remind you that last race only one Ferrari finished the race?! :rolleyes:

PS: Keep that kool aid away, it's messing with your brain already! :p :

ioan

26th July 2009, 15:14

A great result today! :up:
The race pace was good and consistent.

Garry Walker

26th July 2009, 15:20

A weekend of contrasts.

But very good job by kimi, he was doing very consistant times through the race, more so than Hamilton, but we just lacked ultimate speed today.

wedge

26th July 2009, 15:26

Ferrari are back?

Forza Ferrari!

gloomyDAY

4th August 2009, 18:46

:D This made my day:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77551

I'm not a Ferrari fan but I like how they didn't beat around the bush.

ioan

4th August 2009, 20:00

:D This made my day:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77551

I'm not a Ferrari fan but I like how they didn't beat around the bush.

I agree.
And the slap in Mateschitz' face is well deserved after his backstabbing move.
So Ferrari agreed to let Alguersuari test but RedBull can't be gentlemen enough to return the favor.

Williams had the right to refuse the test and now I fully accept their stance.

gloomyDAY

10th August 2009, 07:02

ioan

10th August 2009, 11:10

How valuable is Massa?

I've had this burning question before Massa received his injury, but even more so after Hungary. If Kimi gets the boot, then will Massa be the team leader if say Alonso takes the scarlet seat?

Massa may just be a lot easier to ditch for an average driver who can help Ferrari's number 1 driver.

Not sure I understand your logic.
Anyway Massa has been the team leader for the last 2 seasons and he is very well integrated in the team.

I am evil Homer

10th August 2009, 11:24

I'd say Massa was integral to Ferrari....he was still very rough when he joined Ferrari and it's clear Schumacher has helped him hone his natural talent into more consistency.

There's no reason to dump Massa, regardless of who might be his team mate in 2010. And if it's Alonso, he'll need to be respectful of the existing team members this time around...he's won't be protected by his 'daddy' Flavio and allowed to stomp and scream like a brat.

Knock-on

10th August 2009, 12:27

Not sure I understand your logic.
Anyway Massa has been the team leader for the last 2 seasons and he is very well integrated in the team.

Really. Massa has been team leader?

You learn something new every day :D

ioan

10th August 2009, 12:29

You learn something new every day :D

I think that's a good thing for you, as I was already a bit concerned by your level!
Now, just keep learning! :D

Knock-on

10th August 2009, 12:59

I think that's a good thing for you, as I was already a bit concerned by your level!
Now, just keep learning! :D

It must just be me but can you explain why a driver that wasn't the most reliable or quickest in the team would be Team Leader over the World Champion.

Just asking like ;)

ioan

10th August 2009, 13:37

This is news to me :rolleyes:

Massa is probably more established within the Scuderia, but to claim he is number one over Kimi is a strange statement IMO.

Apparently you think that being a team leader = number one status.
IMO this is not the case.
Ferrari did offer and does offer equal status and possibilities to both their drivers, it's up to the drivers to take up the role of team leader (Felipe) or not (Kimi).

You see a bit of thinking would have helped you understand better before posting rubbish.

10th August 2009, 14:02

It must just be me but can you explain why a driver that wasn't the most reliable or quickest in the team would be Team Leader over the World Champion.

Just asking like ;)

It's obvious to those with brains and eyesight.

Kimi is lucky still to be in the car. For his sake, I hope he outperforms a 40 year old rusty Tedesco speaker.

Massa has become the defacto team leader, certainly in terms of the affection with which he is held within the garage. It shouldn't ever have happened, but then the fault for that isn't with Ferrari or the little Brazilian.

555-04Q2

10th August 2009, 14:56

This is news to me :rolleyes:

Massa is probably more established within the Scuderia, but to claim he is number one over Kimi is a strange statement IMO. Ferrari have been keen to publicise that their drivers have equal status regardless of the issue of Kimi's salary being nearly twice Felipe's. Kimi had a poor last season but he is the only WDC in their garage at present, so I think he would have something to say about Massa's sudden number one staus.

Is this fact? or a theory bouncing around the Ferrari online fan club and deriving from the Santander apreciation society? :p

I think the correct term should be that Massa is the "performance #1 driver" at Ferrari over the last two seasons up to his crash at the last race. Kimi's huge salary clearly indicates who Ferrari thought the #1 driver should be. The last two seasons have proved the opposite with the Brazilian outperforming his Finnish counterpart.

555-04Q2

10th August 2009, 15:02

You do have a point with this and Autosport ran an article which suggested Felipe has a stronger bond within the team than Kimi. Whether this means team leader or not, I don't know.

Teams generally take to the driver who shows the most commitment and provides the most/best feedback to the team. This is where Schumacher was so good at Ferrari and where Massa is maybe getting one over his teamate. We all know Kimi has a fairly low work ethic and prefers to pitch up and drive before heading home to put on a gorilla suit and have a few drinks. Thats his nature and he aint gonna change.

ioan

10th August 2009, 15:11

Theres no need to get so abrupt with me little man thank you very much!!

I believe that slamming something untrue has to be done before other peoples start believeing it, it's in the best interest of society. :D

And BTW I used exactly the same tone you used in your post, so don't cry for nothing. ;)

gloomyDAY

10th August 2009, 17:04

Not sure I understand your logic.
Anyway Massa has been the team leader for the last 2 seasons and he is very well integrated in the team.Well I meant that Massa could be axed on the supposition that Alonso joins the team. We all know that Alonsita requires a great deal of attention, so another driver that could directly compete against him wouldn't go down too well.

My understanding is that Ferrari will most likely retain Massa and if Alonso joins Ferrari, then he'll just have to live with the fact that a team driver can push him throughout the entire season.

10th August 2009, 17:31

It'll be challenging for FA if Massa is his team mate as they will be on equal term like you say, as he hasn't had this kind of situation since Mclaren.

He didn't have that kind of situation at Mclaren.

"We were racing Alonso" was, I believe, the quote of the team boss.

gloomyDAY

10th August 2009, 17:37

He didn't have that kind of situation at Mclaren.

"We were racing Alonso" was, I believe, the quote of the team boss.Oh, that little incident (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article2617378.ece). :D
No amount of Ron speak could get him out of that pickle.
If he felt so threatened by Alonso, why didn't he just bench his butt?

10th August 2009, 18:19

You'll be telling me next that Ferrari fans are disgusted Schumi's test was blocked by teams hoping to stick to the rules... Never ;)

Since this is a Ferrari fans thread, shouldn't you already know the answer since, by defintion, you must be one? Or are you just a troll?

The answer to your question, for those masquerading as Ferrari fans who aren't, is that Schmui's test was blocked by a team hoping that history will repeat itself and that they will benefit from an injury to a Ferrari driver.

Sporting ethics had feck all to do with it, as anybody who has met Frank Williams will tell you. He made a decision to benefit himself...nothing wrong with that...but only the keenest cock-sucking British fans would believe it was done in the interests of fair play. That is typical British F1 fan BS, to be expected from a mob with only an IQ of 5 between it.

gloomyDAY

10th August 2009, 18:22

Since this is a Ferrari fans thread, shouldn't you already know the answer since, by defintion, you must be one? Or are you just a troll?

The answer to your question, for those masquerading as Ferrari fans who aren't, is that Schmui's test was blocked by a team hoping that history will repeat itself and that they will benefit from an injury to a Ferrari driver.

Sporting ethics had feck all to do with it, as anybody who has met Frank Williams will tell you. He made a decision to benefit himself...nothing wrong with that...but only the keenest cock-sucking British fans would believe it was done in the interests of fair play. That is typical British F1 fan BS, to be expected from a mob with only an IQ of 5 between it. :eek: ................................... :rotflmao:

Tamby, chill. Go paint a fresco or something.

DexDexter

10th August 2009, 19:13

I think the correct term should be that Massa is the "performance #1 driver" at Ferrari over the last two seasons up to his crash at the last race. Kimi's huge salary clearly indicates who Ferrari thought the #1 driver should be. The last two seasons have proved the opposite with the Brazilian outperforming his Finnish counterpart.

Massa was "performance #1 driver" at Ferrari over LAST season, this season they were pretty evenly matched with Kimi outqualifying Massa more often than not and Massa having an upper hand in some of the races due to pace, some due strategy. Check the statistics.

ioan

10th August 2009, 21:47

Ps If I have an IQ of 5 or less, then I've done bloody well for myself... ;)

Well, you are certainly good at talking yourself up! :p :

ioan

10th August 2009, 21:49

Massa was "performance #1 driver" at Ferrari over LAST season, this season they were pretty evenly matched with Kimi outqualifying Massa more often than not and Massa having an upper hand in some of the races due to pace, some due strategy. Check the statistics.

Let's see, before Felipe was taken out by a rogue spring at Hungaroring, the points standings was: Felipe 22 to Kimi's 10!

Maybe in Finland that means evenly matched, but this side of the polar circle it means outperformed by a mile. :D

Boudica

11th August 2009, 03:04

Teams generally take to the driver who shows the most commitment and provides the most/best feedback to the team. This is where Schumacher was so good at Ferrari and where Massa is maybe getting one over his teamate. We all know Kimi has a fairly low work ethic and prefers to pitch up and drive before heading home to put on a gorilla suit and have a few drinks. Thats his nature and he aint gonna change.

I think the correct term should be that Massa is the "performance #1 driver" at Ferrari over the last two seasons up to his crash at the last race. Kimi's huge salary clearly indicates who Ferrari thought the #1 driver should be. The last two seasons have proved the opposite with the Brazilian outperforming his Finnish counterpart.

Driver salaries haven't got much to do with it, if Ferrari were really interested in making a lead driver out of Kimi, they could have made him the no.1 driver after he won the championship, even last year he was still leading the championship until halfway through the year. It is actually difficult say what their expectations of Kimi were if you look at their actions.

The salaries doesn't really say much, Marlboro pays the salaries not Ferrari. The difference between salaries also isn't as big as some people believe, last year Kimi's salary from Ferrari was 18 million and Felipe's salary was 13 million. The bulk of Kimi's salary is personal sponsorship. We also dont know the full criteria of their salaries and contracts. It is also properly related to marketing, in last years FIA/ING survey Kimi was still voted the second favorite driver after Lewis eventhough he had a bad year.

As far as development goes, this year has been quite interesting with the open radio radio transmissions. Interestingly enough Felipe hasn't given any feedback so far, we mostly just hear Rob Smedley giving him feedback and instructions. In fact Jamie Alguersuari has given more feedback in free practice, then Felipe has done the whole year. I dont have problem with that, Felipe have obviously found a system that works perfectly for him, and he should of course stick with it. But I just find it very difficult to believe that he is doing the "development" within the team, from what I have heard so far this year, I am sure Schumi's radio conversations will be quite interesting. That being said development and feedback are also highly overrated these days, when the teams dont even require any testing during the the year.

Some people think the situation with Kimi, Ferrari and Felipe are very complicated, personally I just think that Kimi doesn't fit in Ferrari.

555-04Q2

11th August 2009, 07:51

Driver salaries haven't got much to do with it, if Ferrari were really interested in making a lead driver out of Kimi, they could have made him the no.1 driver after he won the championship, even last year he was still leading the championship until halfway through the year. It is actually difficult say what their expectations of Kimi were if you look at their actions.

The salaries doesn't really say much, Marlboro pays the salaries not Ferrari. The difference between salaries also isn't as big as some people believe, last year Kimi's salary from Ferrari was 18 million and Felipe's salary was 13 million. The bulk of Kimi's salary is personal sponsorship. We also dont know the full criteria of their salaries and contracts. It is also properly related to marketing, in last years FIA/ING survey Kimi was still voted the second favorite driver after Lewis eventhough he had a bad year.

As far as development goes, this year has been quite interesting with the open radio radio transmissions. Interestingly enough Felipe hasn't given any feedback so far, we mostly just hear Rob Smedley giving him feedback and instructions. In fact Jamie Alguersuari has given more feedback in free practice, then Felipe has done the whole year. I dont have problem with that, Felipe have obviously found a system that works perfectly for him, and he should of course stick with it. But I just find it very difficult to believe that he is doing the "development" within the team, from what I have heard so far this year, I am sure Schumi's radio conversations will be quite interesting. That being said development and feedback are also highly overrated these days, when the teams dont even require any testing during the the year.

Some people think the situation with Kimi, Ferrari and Felipe are very complicated, personally I just think that Kimi doesn't fit in Ferrari.

I disagree. Kimi was hired by Ferrari to replace an ageing Schumacher and they hoped he would carry on Schumachers legacy as a dominat driver in F1 for Team Ferrari. As it turns out, in 2007 Kimi did a good job and delivered the goods, only to let Massa surpass him in 2008 and 2009.

555-04Q2

11th August 2009, 07:54

Massa was "performance #1 driver" at Ferrari over LAST season, this season they were pretty evenly matched with Kimi outqualifying Massa more often than not and Massa having an upper hand in some of the races due to pace, some due strategy. Check the statistics.

Wrong! The only statistic that counts is how many points you have, and Massa had more than double Kimi's tally up to his crash. Who cares if you qualify on pole then get say 2 points :?: Points win WDC's & CC's which is what teams and drivers aim for. There are no points for qualifying besides a Noddy badge to put on your wall at home.

DexDexter

11th August 2009, 08:05

Let's see, before Felipe was taken out by a rogue spring at Hungaroring, the points standings was: Felipe 22 to Kimi's 10!

Maybe in Finland that means evenly matched, but this side of the polar circle it means outperformed by a mile. :D

Kimi had more reliability problems. How was the qualifying? You seem to consider yourself as an F1 expert and you know that no matter what the points tally is, qualifying is also taken into account. And lets be honest, Kimi is the only Ferrari driver to be on the podium this year on merit (Monaco), not helped by moving chicane Heikki. Nobody cares about fourth places except you when your poster boy gets them. However, I do hope Felipe gets back and Kimi stays at the team so this comparison can continue. Talking about polar circle, your countrymen have definitely found it as well.

He didn't have that kind of situation at Mclaren.

"We were racing Alonso" was, I believe, the quote of the team boss.

An almost rookie Finnish driver was given a fair opportunity against a British driver at Mclaren, I tend to think that a world champion would get at least the same treatment. But obviously you know everything better.

DexDexter

11th August 2009, 08:09

Wrong! The only statistic that counts is how many points you have, and Massa had more than double Kimi's tally up to his crash. Who cares if you qualify on pole then get say 2 points :?: Points win WDC's & CC's which is what teams and drivers aim for. There are no points for qualifying besides a Noddy badge to put on your wall at home.

People do care about quali, in 92 Brundle often matched Schumi and even beat him in some of the races but he wasn't a great qualifier so nobody remembers that. Anyway, who cares, I'm off to sunshine.

ioan

11th August 2009, 10:41

Kimi had more reliability problems. How was the qualifying? You seem to consider yourself as an F1 expert and you know that no matter what the points tally is, qualifying is also taken into account. And lets be honest, Kimi is the only Ferrari driver to be on the podium this year on merit (Monaco), not helped by moving chicane Heikki. Nobody cares about fourth places except you when your poster boy gets them. However, I do hope Felipe gets back and Kimi stays at the team so this comparison can continue.

Apparently you've got your head deep up Kimi's behind, so I'll let you drool over his qualifying performance. BTW qualifying isn't taken into account anywhere.

As for my poster boy, he was on the podium this season on merit and I bet he would have wiped the floor with your sleeping beauty if not for an unfortunate accident.

We all know you Finns are McLaren fans so I don't see why you continue to troll in this thread? Can't you air your frustrations somewhere else?

I like Kimi but I can't wait the day when he leaves F1 just because I won't have to read the sh!t his fanatics are spreading on this board. :\

Talking about polar circle, your countrymen have definitely found it as well.

Are you looking for a ban?!

ioan

11th August 2009, 10:43

Anyway, who cares, I'm off to sunshine.

Good for ya, try getting plenty of it, it might help with brightening up.

ioan

11th August 2009, 11:12

Saying all Fin's support Mclaren is quite frankly a generalisation made up as a childish dig to support a weak arguement IMO.. I don't hear the Fin's claiming all Romanian's prefer Trabant racing.. :p

First of all Romanian's don't buy Trabant, so next time before you decide to launch in a childish dig try to get hold of some facts! :laugh:

Second, Finns are McLaren fans in a proportion of 99% because of Mika Hakkinen, Kimi Raikkonen and Heiki Kovalainnen's time spent with Mclaren and because McLaren did show an affinity for Finnish drivers.

Thrid, the Finns don't claim such things because even if they are lost in their love for their drivers, they are still smarter than you! :p :

555-04Q2

11th August 2009, 11:19

People do care about quali, in 92 Brundle often matched Schumi and even beat him in some of the races but he wasn't a great qualifier so nobody remembers that. Anyway, who cares, I'm off to sunshine.

Wrong again! F1 only cares about winning and securing as many points as possible, no matter where you start on the grid.

P.S. Dont get sunstroke ;)

ioan

11th August 2009, 13:00

It wasn't childish dig, thats not my style, I was simply trying to point out the irony of making generalisations. Like saying British people drink nothing but tea, drive Bentley's and talk about cricket... Give it another read in context :)

Well, while your description of the Brits is probably true as you are more in the know than I am, I can only say that your fantasies about Romanians are wrong.

You may be right about a certain amount of Finnish fans preferring Mclaren with their links in the past and present, but you can't make assumptions that the entire population feels this way.

I wasn't talking about all the Finns, only about the die hard F1 fans. Maybe I should have pointed it out that grandmas are not included! :p :

The first Finnish person who comes along and claims to be a Ferrari fan, and you throw a Mclaren yarn in his face?? Just wanted to point this out thats all.. Peace :s mokin:

Don't worry, I'm sure I'm right about this Finn being a McLaren fan, I'm well aware about his history on this board. ;)

11th August 2009, 15:31

This rant coming from a man who claims he was part of a Le Mans winning Mazda outfit and other reputable teams, yet has one of the most biased views towards a team he never worked for??? Sounds fishy to me, perhaps you didn't get the break in motorsport you wanted here in Britain and its tainted your view of our general population? Either that or you spent years crying at the gates of Maranello dreaming of what could have been... I don't know.. If this offends you then I apologise in advance.

In answer to your question - My first marriage was destroyed by my addiction to work and the demands and pressures of motorsport.

I wasn't going to make the same mistake with my second. So when the Ferrari jobs came up, I let them pass. I could not give it the time and the intensity that it required.

The love of my life and the love for my family, even for a Tifosi, is more important than a wind-tunnel.

ioan

11th August 2009, 16:03

In answer to your question - My first marriage was destroyed by my addiction to work and the demands and pressures of motorsport.

I wasn't going to make the same mistake with my second. So when the Ferrari jobs came up, I let them pass. I could not give it the time and the intensity that it required.

The love of my life and the love for my family, even for a Tifosi, is more important than a wind-tunnel.

:up:

PS: Don't take henners seriously, he's just airing his frustrations with regards to his 'life threatening' job as a product designer! :D

ioan

11th August 2009, 18:58

We do have a saying here in the UK though for all the graduates who come flooding out of University and can't get a break. "If all else fails.... Become a teacher"... Now that really is a dangerous option!! ;)

Most of what you know you learned from a teacher! ;)

DexDexter

11th August 2009, 21:04

Apparently you've got your head deep up Kimi's behind, so I'll let you drool over his qualifying performance. BTW qualifying isn't taken into account anywhere.

As for my poster boy, he was on the podium this season on merit and I bet he would have wiped the floor with your sleeping beauty if not for an unfortunate accident.

We all know you Finns are McLaren fans so I don't see why you continue to troll in this thread? Can't you air your frustrations somewhere else?

I like Kimi but I can't wait the day when he leaves F1 just because I won't have to read the sh!t his fanatics are spreading on this board. :\

Are you looking for a ban?!

If anybody deserves a ban, it's you. Anyway, I've realised (like many here I'm sure) that it's pointless to argue with you.

DexDexter

11th August 2009, 21:13

It wasn't childish dig, thats not my style, I was simply trying to point out the irony of making generalisations. Like saying British people drink nothing but tea, drive Bentley's and talk about cricket... Give it another read in context :)

You may be right about a certain amount of Finnish fans preferring Mclaren with their links in the past and present, but you can't make assumptions that the entire population feels this way. The first Finnish person who comes along and claims to be a Ferrari fan, and you throw a Mclaren yarn in his face?? Just wanted to point this out thats all.. Peace :s mokin:

I don't think most fans over here prefer teams, they prefer drivers from their home country like the Spaniards, Brits etc. At the moment I kind of like Ferrari, I just wish Todt was still there and I've got mixed feelings about Mclaren since I feel Heikki is not always given a fair chance. So I'm not a Mclaren fan, but thank you for taking on Ioan while I was busy burning my skin. :)

ioan

11th August 2009, 22:32

If anybody deserves a ban, it's you.

Because I put up with your BS and I'm gentleman enough not to tell you a couple of things you would fully deserve to hear?

ioan

11th August 2009, 22:36

To be honest I've learnt more in industry than I ever did at University or school related subjects. Two of my teachers said teaching was less stressfull which is why they were where they were. Its a stepping stone, you get a qualification on a piece of paper and then you join the real world where you realise its very different. So to add to your comment... no, most of my knowledge did not come from an acedemic teacher, more aquired through working alongside people with experience and expanding the limit knowledge I had. In the UK anyone with a degree can do a PGCE and become a teacher, 3 of my close friends have done this including my girlfriend who did the course and then got a job as a Graphic designer which she has done for the last 7 years.
Teachers are great but they certainly aren't the font of all knowledge.. :)

I wonder what the world would have been without schools and teachers?
How would he have been able to evolve from the darkness of the Middle Age to the society we have now if only a select few would have had access to knowledge?!

Those from whom you learned from teachers too.

And if it wasn't for academics I wonder how far the engineering, the health care and many other domains would have evolved.

I'll stop here, because it isn't the right thread to discuss this topic, but I hope I gave you enough food for thought.

Boudica

12th August 2009, 01:51

I disagree. Kimi was hired by Ferrari to replace an ageing Schumacher and they hoped he would carry on Schumachers legacy as a dominat driver in F1 for Team Ferrari. As it turns out, in 2007 Kimi did a good job and delivered the goods, only to let Massa surpass him in 2008 and 2009.

Well, if you want someone to deliver in a certain way you also have to give him the tools to do so. And that goes both ways for Felipe and Kimi.

The points standing is good way for distributing prize money and so on, but I am sure teams dont take that narrow minded approach for evaluating race performances. Take the Hungarian GP of last year, Felipe had a fantastic race but he didn't score any points, was Heikki really better then him that day eventhough he scored the winning points? The points doesn't always tell you the whole story. :)

Boudica

12th August 2009, 02:00

I like Kimi but I can't wait the day when he leaves F1 just because I won't have to read the sh!t his fanatics are spreading on this board. :\

:laugh:

Why on earth should a driver like Kimi just leave F1, while drivers like de la Rosa are considered for race seats next year?

DexDexter

12th August 2009, 07:57

Because I put up with your BS and I'm gentleman enough not to tell you a couple of things you would fully deserve to hear?

This is what I have stated here:

1. Kimi being better than Massa in qualifying more often than not this year .Kimi has made it into q3 nine times while Massa did it six times. FACT
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/de.rec.sport.motorsport.formel1/browse_thread/thread/1bfc7ffa53272df3#

2. Massa having an upper hand in some of the races due to strategy:
British GP, Kimi started 9th and made a very good start but had very little fuel on board, Massa started 11th with a lot more fuel and benefited from that. Ferrari made a bad call on Kimi's strategy. FACT

3. Massa had an upper hand in some races due to pace. (I don't think we need a link) FACT

I also wrote that Kimi had more technical problems than Massa which prevented him from scoring points FACT
Links
http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2009/12.html

http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2009/18.html

4. Kimi scoring a podium on merit. If you start second and finish third and shadow the cars in front of you, in the real world that is a podium on merit. If you benefit from a slow car holding others up, you gain an advantage because of that and to an extent inherit your position. Massa drove very well in that race, I'm not saying that.

These arguments are debatable but bs they aren't. It's just sad that civil discussion is so hard here.

CNR

12th August 2009, 08:11

Ferrari Push To Field Third Car In 2010
(buy bmw and they can have 4)
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/39410/f1-ferrari-push-to-field-third-car-in-2010/

same old BS or not ?

FERRARI PRESIDENT Luca di Montezemolo will push for his team to run three cars next season in a bid to entice Michael Schumacher back to Formula 1.
Schumacher’s brief flirtation with a return to the sport ended after it was revealed his neck was unable to withstand the rigours of Formula 1.
However, Di Montezemolo believes the departure of BMW Sauber at the end of the year will create an opportunity for two of the sport’s established giants to field an extra car on the grid, and provide the seven-time World Champion with a chance to launch his comeback.
And he believes Schumacher would have no trouble adapting to the changes which have affected Formula 1 since his retirement in 2006.

“Well we’re talking about Michael Schumacher. He is 40 years old, but he’s still from another planet,” Di Montezemolo told Italy’s La Stampa.

Shalafi

12th August 2009, 08:12

I like Kimi but I can't wait the day when he leaves F1 just because I won't have to read the sh!t his fanatics are spreading on this board. :\

Well MS quit at F1 but it didn't stop the sh!t that his fanatics are still spreading on this board. ;)

ioan

12th August 2009, 09:24

Ferrari Push To Field Third Car In 2010
(buy bmw and they can have 4)
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/39410/f1-ferrari-push-to-field-third-car-in-2010/

same old BS or not ?

[/INDENT]

We'll see what happens.
He needs to get the support of Bernie and this move would certainly make that happen, but I'm not sure that MS wants to come back for a full time drive.

What they should do instead is say that every team can field a 3rd car, that is not supposed to get points if the 2 main drivers finish the race, in order to give young driver the possibility to get practice in a F1 car. They can put whomever they want in the 3rd car as long as the person qualifies for a superlicence, and also change them as often as they want.

ioan

12th August 2009, 09:25

Well MS quit at F1 but it didn't stop the sh!t that his fanatics are still spreading on this board. ;)

Good try! ;)
The reason they are still around is that most of MS' fans are Ferrari fanatics! :)

Garry Walker

12th August 2009, 09:49

Let's see, before Felipe was taken out by a rogue spring at Hungaroring, the points standings was: Felipe 22 to Kimi's 10!

Maybe in Finland that means evenly matched, but this side of the polar circle it means outperformed by a mile. :D

I dont know what season you have been watching, other than troll-land, but this year Kimi and Felipe have indeed been equal. I think they have both made the most of the ty car they have had to deal with.

Apparently you've got your head deep up Kimi's behind, so I'll let you drool over his qualifying performance. BTW qualifying isn't taken into account anywhere.

As for my poster boy, he was on the podium this season on merit and I bet he would have wiped the floor with your sleeping beauty if not for an unfortunate accident.
Do you really need to show the world your stupidity through posts like this?

I like Kimi but I can't wait the day when he leaves F1 just because I won't have to read the sh!t his fanatics are spreading on this board. :\ His fans are no worse than fans of some other drivers.

'
These arguments are debatable but bs they aren't. It's just sad that civil discussion is so hard here.

It is impossible to debate with ioan, because he will just ignore your arguments and then tell you not to respond to him again.

12th August 2009, 14:23

I dont know what season you have been watching, other than troll-land, but this year Kimi and Felipe have indeed been equal. I think they have both made the most of the ty car they have had to deal with.

Agree with you, but that does mean that Felipe is better value for money and Kimi is over-hyped and over-paid.

Knock-on

12th August 2009, 15:48

Agree with you, but that does mean that Felipe is better value for money and Kimi is over-hyped and over-paid.

Totally agree. I have always said Kimi is over-rated. I remember all the crap from members saying he was being hampered at McLaren and would flourish at Ferrari. Well, he got a WDC by the skin of his teeth with a superiour car but hasn't exactly shone since.

Massa on the other hand has come on leaps and bounds in my opinion. He was a bit of a liability in the early Ferrari days but particularly this year seems pretty well hooked up.

I'm with Luca M and wouldn't say he's amazing buy worthy of a drive.

DexDexter

12th August 2009, 16:11

Agree with you, but that does mean that Felipe is better value for money and Kimi is over-hyped and over-paid.

I agree that his salary is too big for today's F1. The real question is whether Kimi is over-hyped or Felipe under-valued. If Felipe is better than people think, then there is certainly nothing wrong with Kimi's performance.

jens

12th August 2009, 16:20

And lets be honest, Kimi is the only Ferrari driver to be on the podium this year on merit (Monaco), not helped by moving chicane Heikki.

How exactly was Massa's podium helped by HK in Germany? Rosberg started from P15 and if anything, he should have benefitted even more from Heikki. Barrichello was driving in front of Heikki and pulling away, so if anything, benefitted from Heikki as well. Etc. And I don't recall any retirements helping Massa to achieve this podium, so it was pretty much achieved on merit.

---

But generally, this so-called "Ferrari fans thread" seems to be quite useless as the so-called 'Ferrari fans' are mostly concentrated on "my driver is better than your's" debate. Clear lack of team spirit and concentration on team issues here. We may better rename it as a Massa vs Räikkönen thread. :p :

DexDexter

12th August 2009, 16:28

How exactly was Massa's podium helped by HK in Germany? Rosberg started from P15 and if anything, he should have benefitted even more from Heikki. Barrichello was driving in front of Heikki and pulling away, so if anything, benefitted from Heikki as well. Etc. And I don't recall any retirements helping Massa to achieve this podium, so it was pretty much achieved on merit.
.

Massa had quite a long first stint and was definitely helped by the fact that Heikki held up everybody except the first three. Anyway he drove a good race, better than Rosberg ,it's just that Kimi's third place at Monaco was just due to pure speed.

Let's stop this, shall we? I agree with you on what you said about this thread, and IMO most people prefer individual drivers not teams, whatever they claim. I like the Finn driving the Ferrari and I like Italy and therefore Ferrari as well, so I'm going to continue writing here.

edv

12th August 2009, 16:45

ioan

12th August 2009, 19:21

Let's stop this, shall we?

I agree, it will save me the cringing from reading your posts trying to put Massa's podium down to anything but his speed.

Why don't you just start a Kimi fanboys thread where you can bash Massa as much as you want. I promise I won't ever read it let alone post there. Just let us support Ferrari with both drivers in this thread.

ioan

12th August 2009, 19:23

Re 3rd car for Ferrari...how could the smaller teams agree to this? They have a hard enough time getting into a points-paying position as it is. Unless F1 grants points up to 12th position instead of 8th I can't see this happening.

Not easy at all. They should maybe say that only 2 of the 3 cars will be eligible for scoring points and positions, but I doubt this will be enough.

CNR

12th August 2009, 22:31

with the third car
i think when bernie ecclestone was talking about this a few years ago they had to nominate the 2 drivers to score the points be for the gp

ioan

13th August 2009, 10:20

with the third car
i think when bernie ecclestone was talking about this a few years ago they had to nominate the 2 drivers to score the points be for the gp

I think you are right, I wish my memory was a bit better though.

DexDexter

17th August 2009, 11:13

Felipe Massa said in an interview that his eyesight in the left eye is not yet 100%. He also said that Kimi hasn't called him since the accident and it was to be expected because that's the way he is.

http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/f1/uutiset.shtml/arkistot/f1/2009/08/933657

http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/f1/uutiset.shtml/arkistot/f1/2009/08/933677

ioan

21st August 2009, 10:44

Bye bye 3rd place in the Constructors championship.
Bot Alguersuari and Grosjean are doing better than the driver who says he drove some 150000 kms in the last 10 years in a F1 car. :\

ioan

22nd August 2009, 11:30

I'm deeply disappointed with the management of the team right now.
3rd in the constructors championship is turning into a pipe dream with the use of BADoer. :(

jas123f1

22nd August 2009, 22:01

I'm deeply disappointed with the management of the team right now.
3rd in the constructors championship is turning into a pipe dream with the use of BADoer. :(

Deeply disappointed? Do not - that's life.

Sometimes it goes up and sometimes opposite..

I think there is light in the tunnel – Massa is however recovering and will drive again this year.. he is much better and hopes to drive again in Italia … if everything goes as he hope and expect and latest in Brazil.. Did you forget when Schumi crashed and didn’t drive a long time.. Things happen..

I think Ferrari can be as 3:th in WCC anyway. Maybe Kimi take podiums now when he is in a position as the first driver.

ioan

22nd August 2009, 22:12

When Schumi crashed Mika Salo did a more than respectable job replacing him.
Badoer is not even at Yuji Ide level right now. :(

gloomyDAY

23rd August 2009, 03:22

Foolish.

Ferrari are probably seeking a replacement for Luca.

Garry Walker

23rd August 2009, 15:24

Foolish.

Ferrari are probably seeking a replacement for Luca.

They should be yes.
Badoer was improving as the race progressed, but he simply does not have the pace. Never has, never will. The real comedy is that some people on this forum were so stupid as to question what would happen if Badoer outdrove Kimi or saying that Ferrari knows Badoer is good enough to win races.
Astonishing level of idiocy by some people.

ioan

23rd August 2009, 15:40

They should be yes.
Badoer was improving as the race progressed, but he simply does not have the pace. Never has, never will. The real comedy is that some people on this forum were so stupid as to question what would happen if Badoer outdrove Kimi or saying that Ferrari knows Badoer is good enough to win races.
Astonishing level of idiocy by some people.

I say it every season, the level of knowledge of F1 around here is appalling, even worse than Badoer's pace compared to Kimi's.
Very often the posts are only the expression of some kind of daydreaming.

Robinho

23rd August 2009, 15:45

i do think most people have been surprised by just how bad Badoer was, even those he had a feeling he would be rubbish.

he is very much out of his depth. testing for hundreds of laps on a track you know at 95% of the potential is something very different from trying to extract 99% consistently whilst in a pressured race environment - it seems Ferrari understimated the size of that step, it will be interesting to see if they admit they made a mistake and try something else, or stick to their guns and just hope Massa recovers quickly enough to spare their blushes for too long.

even if Luca was going to be better at Spa and Moza his confidence will be shot and you can't be successful in F1 with no confidence

ioan

23rd August 2009, 15:46

From what I read Domenicalli wanted Fisichella in the 2nd car as he is to become their 3rd driver next season. However Di Montezemolo decided he knows better! :\
Loved his expression after Badoer's first pit stop. :D

However this kind of decisions taken by people not really in the known (LdM in this case) who go as far as overruling the team's management aren't good for Ferrari.
I have the impression that things went a bit wrong back when MS retired and soon after that Ross Brawn announced his sabbatical year. I remember Todt saying that he was trying to convince Ross to come back but for some reasons it all went wrong. Now I'm sure that LdM was that reason and I believe that he was also teh reason why Todt was replaced by Domenicalli one year before his contract with Ferrari came to an end.
IMO Todt wanted to grant Ross the team boss position but Luca insisted for Domenicalli and from that point on the relations with Todt went sour.

Hopefully someone will tell LdM to keep his nose out of the F1 team, but who can do that?!

ioan

23rd August 2009, 15:48

he is very much out of his depth. testing for hundreds of laps on a track you know at 95% of the potential is something very different from trying to extract 99% consistently whilst in a pressured race environment - it seems Ferrari understimated the size of that step, it will be interesting to see if they admit they made a mistake and try something else, or stick to their guns and just hope Massa recovers quickly enough to spare their blushes for too long.

I just hope they don't put pressure on Felipe to come back earlier than optimal.
The can make one more driver change right now, so they better do it right and fast or we might witness a Ferrari winning the race in Spa while the other comes last.

Robinho

23rd August 2009, 15:49

Fisi would have been a good call, but i would have been surprised if FI would have given him up without compensation - and they presumabley are already paying Badoer a retainer, so he's probably racing for little or no extra cost to the team.

whether they are now regretting that call given the cost to the reputation of the management at least we will see

wedge

23rd August 2009, 15:50

I say it every season, the level of knowledge of F1 around here is appalling, even worse than Badoer's pace compared to Kimi's.
Very often the posts are only the expression of some kind of daydreaming.

No one's perfect.

Even your knowledge is appalling at times.

Robinho

23rd August 2009, 15:52

i think the only person pushing Massa back will be Massa, and the Dr's won't let him near a car until he's fully fit. i do think there is a good chance of him making Brazil, i don'ty think he'd be making that sort of expectation without some decent advice from teh many dr's who have now seena and worked with him - i agree though, the worst possible thing (much worse than Badoer tooling around at the back) would be Massa coming back too son and doing any further damage - i think everyone wants to see a fully fit Massa back on track as soon as possible, not a nearly fit Massa back before that

ioan

23rd August 2009, 15:55

No one's perfect.

Even your knowledge is appalling at times.

As you say, no one is perfect, but than some are really really bad.

Garry Walker

23rd August 2009, 16:01

Garry Walker

23rd August 2009, 16:02

I just hope they don't put pressure on Felipe to come back earlier than optimal.
The can make one more driver change right now, so they better do it right and fast or we might witness a Ferrari winning the race in Spa while the other comes last.

I have read some news on Felipes recovery which indicate his return might be further away than we would hope/we expected.

ioan

23rd August 2009, 16:06

I have read some news on Felipes recovery which indicate his return might be further away than we would hope/we expected.

I hope you aren talking about the Turun Sanomat rumors. I'm not sure that they aren't just making up things in order to make sure that if Alonso has a contract for next year than Kimi get's the other instead of Felipe. I hope it's just Finnish wishful thinking and writing.

Last time there was a public comment about Felipe's condition it was said that his left eye is now up to 95% of it's previous performance after recovering from like 40% it had after he was woken up from the induced coma.

Anyway, he's got until next season to rest and improve his condition, no need to come back sooner, there are enough drivers out there who can do a better job than Badoer is doing right now.

Garry Walker

23rd August 2009, 16:09

I hope you aren talking about the Turun Sanomat rumors. I'm not sure that they aren't just making up things in order to make sure that if Alonso has a contract for next year than Kimi get's the other instead of Felipe. I hope it's just Finnish wishful thinking and writing.

Last time there was a public comment about Felipe's condition it was said that his left eye is now up to 95% of it's previous performance after recovering from like 40% it had after he was woken up from the induced coma.

Anyway, he's got until next season to rest and improve his condition, no need to come back sooner, there are enough drivers out there who can do a better job than Badoer is doing right now.

I was talking about that indeed, I was shown that article.
With brain injuries, you never know what you are going to get.
So before he is back, I wouldnt be too confident about anything. Lets hope for the best obviously.

ioan

23rd August 2009, 16:12

I was talking about that indeed, I was shown that article.

That's good, I was affraid that there were some news about his conditions that I missed.

With brain injuries, you never know what you are going to get.
So before he is back, I wouldnt be too confident about anything. Lets hope for the best obviously.

I agree and hope that all he needs is time to heal.

DexDexter

23rd August 2009, 16:18

Good race from Kimi. Luca, well, looking at the bright side, he seemed more impressive than Jean-Denis Deletraz.

jens

23rd August 2009, 18:21

Good race from Kimi. Luca, well, looking at the bright side, he seemed more impressive than Jean-Denis Deletraz.

When Yoong and Ide were racing in F1, it was fun to think in categories like "what if... the teams of drivers were reversed and those no-hopers were in top cars - how would they fare?" Well, thanks to Ferrari we have been able to see that now. :p :

ioan

23rd August 2009, 18:29

When Yoong and Ide were racing in F1, it was fun to think in categories like "what if... the teams of drivers were reversed and those no-hopers were in top cars - how would they fare?" Well, thanks to Ferrari we have been able to see that now. :p :

We didn't see anything.
For what we saw Ide and Yoong were slow in crap cars, Badoer is crap in a fast car. Or maybe I missed Ide's or Yoong's team mates finishing on the podium while they were dead last?!
There's a difference.

jens

23rd August 2009, 18:52

We didn't see anything.
For what we saw Ide and Yoong were slow in crap cars, Badoer is crap in a fast car. Or maybe I missed Ide's or Yoong's team mates finishing on the podium while they were dead last?!
There's a difference.

What I meant is that we saw what it means to have a completely incompetent racer in a top team. The exact name of that particular underperformer - be it either Ide or Badoer - doesn't matter here.

ioan

23rd August 2009, 19:48

What I meant is that we saw what it means to have a completely incompetent racer in a top team. The exact name of that particular underperformer - be it either Ide or Badoer - doesn't matter here.

I know what you meant, but it isn't logic.
How do we know that Ide or Yoong were under performing given that they were in the slowest car on the grid?

Just because Badoer is crap in a Ferrari it doesn't mean that Ide or Yoong wouldn't have done better than him today.

F1boat

23rd August 2009, 20:43

How do we know that Ide or Yoong were under performing given that they were in the slowest car on the grid?

Cause they had teammates, buddy :)

jens

23rd August 2009, 20:54

How do we know that Ide or Yoong were under performing given that they were in the slowest car on the grid?

Because they were completely off the pace even compared to their team-mate. And especially Ide was all over the place and spinning almost all the time - FIA didn't take his superlicence away after four races without a reason. :p : Although like Badoer now, Ide came into F1 completely unprepared and without any testing, which couldn't have helped.

ioan

23rd August 2009, 20:56

Cause they had teammates, buddy :)

Who were also not on the podium as far as I remember. Right, buddy?!

ioan

23rd August 2009, 20:58

Because they were completely off the pace even compared to their team-mate. And especially Ide was all over the place and spinning almost all the time - FIA didn't take his superlicence away after four races without a reason. :p : Although like Badoer now, Ide came into F1 completely unprepared and without any testing, which couldn't have helped.

The FIA took Ide's superlicence because he had a few accidents with other drivers not because he was slow or because he spun every now and then.

F1boat

23rd August 2009, 21:00

Who were also not on the podium as far as I remember. Right, buddy?!

No, but as jens said "they were completely off the pace even compared to their team-mate". :)

ioan

23rd August 2009, 21:10

No, but as jens said "they were completely off the pace even compared to their team-mate". :)

Well, Badoer is also completely of pace compared to his team mate, or did I miss him topping the time sheets?! :\

F1boat

23rd August 2009, 21:20

Yes, Luca was off the pace his teammate, like the other guys :) With similar gap. BTW, I wonder how he compared to his teammates in his previous efforts in F1. Anybody has some results?

ioan

23rd August 2009, 21:37

gloomyDAY

23rd August 2009, 23:00

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77948

So, who's going to be the replacement?
Is Ferrari going to announce a new driver lineup at Monza?

F1boat

24th August 2009, 06:48

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77948

So, who's going to be the replacement?
Is Ferrari going to announce a new driver lineup at Monza?

"May" :-) As Kimi says, we have to wait and see what happens.But if they bring new driver, it'd be best if it is Seb Bourdais IMO.

ShiftingGears

24th August 2009, 11:16

I am sure Gene would be a lot more competitive than Badoer. Maybe if he were Italian he would be driving instead of Badoer.

F1boat

24th August 2009, 12:15

Domenicali was also quoted saying that next year's car will be a new concept

Tsk, this will be a bit risky. Hopefully it will be successful, or McLaren will destroy the next years' championship.

555-04Q2

25th August 2009, 11:09

Schumi must just get his bloody neck sorted out and remind the boys how it should be done!

jimakos

25th August 2009, 11:12

Schumi must just get his bloody neck sorted out and remind the boys how it should be done!

Agree!But what I read MCS will never come back to F1.
That's a pity but what we can do for that?

jas123f1

25th August 2009, 20:06

According to Kimi Ferrari will not bring any updates for the next race and probably not for the rest of the season.

Domenicali was also quoted saying that next year's car will be a new concept thus they stopped developing this season's contender.

¨However is SPA one of Kimi's favourites tracks - so a podium place is not impossible there - if everything goes in normally way.. and I hope (and believe) that Badoer get his really chance in SPA..

I think Red Bull will be strong there. I should like to see Vettel at least in top 3.

gloomyDAY

25th August 2009, 20:33

DexDexter

25th August 2009, 21:33

I don't think Kimi has received much praise.

The guy landed on the freakin' podium and all anyone can think about is who will replace Kimi come next year. If he stays at Ferrari I would be happy. If Fernando goes to Ferrari, then someone has to make room for the prima donna.

Kimi's career at Ferrari has been a bit up and down but clearly his possible departure from Ferrari is not due to just performance. I know Jean Todt liked/still likes him a lot and was possibly the one who brought him there, but now he's gone, maybe that's got something to do with it. It's easier to blame a driver with a huge salary than the organisation for the lack of success.

jas123f1

28th August 2009, 00:23

Kimi's career at Ferrari has been a bit up and down but clearly his possible departure from Ferrari is not due to just performance. I know Jean Todt liked/still likes him a lot and was possibly the one who brought him there, but now he's gone, maybe that's got something to do with it. It's easier to blame a driver with a huge salary than the organisation for the lack of success.

That's my opinion too, I think that Jean Todt estimated Kimi more than Stefano Domenicali do and I’m sure that Schumacher like Felipe much more than he like Kimi, and it's not very god for the team.

Kimi has his contract and it's wrong if he must go to another team - because he is a god driver and make a god job.

I have still difficult to believe that Ferrari will sell their latest champion for money - but you never know what money can by?