Dave Ryan leaves McLaren?

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BREAKING NEWS FROM SEPANG: McLaren sporting director Dave Ryan - who accompanied Lewis Hamilton to the fateful stewards' meeting in Australia - has been seen leaving the track with packed bags. Subsequently there is speculation that he has left the team after more than 30 years' service. Communications director Matt Bishop told BBC Sport the team were "not confirming anything at the moment" but added that McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh would hold a news conference later on Friday.

Any theorys behind why? Sick of the FIA calling the team a cheat, mad at McLaren for cheating, or hates getting caught?

[ioan]

McLiars trying hard to clear themselves by throwing all the blame on one man.
No use, IMO the whole organisation is infected, like if the most important thing to being recruited by McLaren was to be a liar.

[christophulus]

If he was the one responsible then he has to shoulder the blame. He may just be off home for the weekend but we'll find out later.

[Dave B]

I've just heard Five Live reporting the same. Did he jump or was he pushed? That's the question. I suspect that as an honourable man he may have fallen on his sword.

[Tazio]

Ryan suspended!! :eek:

[dj_bytedisaster]

any links, sources? Sounds like a pure rumour for now, but if it's real, that would be one massive admission of guilt :eek:

[dj_bytedisaster]

any links, sources? Sounds like a pure rumour for now, but if it's real, that would be one massive admission of guilt :eek:

grandprix.com says it's true (http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21349.html)

[PSfan]

Its up at grandprix.com....

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21349.html

[Dave B]

So I suspected wrongly!

[Powered by Cosworth]

I think the vital part is

Dave Ryan - who accompanied Lewis Hamilton to the fateful stewards' meeting in Australia

I'm guessing he, not realising Hamilton had admitted it in interviews already, said they didn't tell Lewis to let Trulli pass.

[MrJan]

McLiars trying hard to clear themselves by throwing all the blame on one man.
No use, IMO the whole organisation is infected, like if the most important thing to being recruited by McLaren was to be a liar.

Take the blinkers off Ioan, the whole bloody sport is infected with cheating. The only difference is that McLaren are stupid enough to keep getting caught :p :

[wmcot]

"If you're not cheating, you're not trying." - Jim Rome

[Tazio]

"If you're not cheating, you're not trying." - Jim RomeJim Rome wouldn't know! He never played a sport in his life!

[ioan]

Take the blinkers off Ioan, the whole bloody sport is infected with cheating. The only difference is that McLaren are stupid enough to keep getting caught :p :

Bla bla bla!
Another attempt to make McLiars look good by throwing mud to everyone else. You McFanatics are pathetic.

[christophulus]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74180


"However, his role in the events of last Sunday, particularly his dealings with the FIA stewards, has caused serious repercussions for the team, for which we apologise. Therefore, I suspended him this morning and he has accepted this."

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That's an interesting move to try and bring credability back to the rest of the team, but it won't work. They've lost the little bit they had regained after spygate and will have to start all over again.

[Tazio]

Someone lied! More specifically took bad advice and lied!
The individuals were penalized!
Stop the lies.
Done deal!

[Garry Walker]

Something is very rotten in that organization. I blame Martin Whitmarsh.

[dj_bytedisaster]

That's an interesting move to try and bring credability back to the rest of the team, but it won't work. They've lost the little bit they had regained after spygate and will have to start all over again.

I don't think they regained some in the first place. I firmly believe that they're not the only team that crosses the line of fairness once in a while, but doing so in the first race when there's not yet any pressure in terms of championship decision and a deliberate direct and targeted jab at a fellow competitor - that hast to be a first since Schumachers deliberate crash into JV in Jerez '97, not to mention the further damage to F1's reputation (or whatever is left of that).

bad news

[Hawkmoon]

Ol' Davey-boy gets the scapegoat treatment. Not bad for 30 years of service.

Wonder if Ron's contemplating coming out of retirement?

[Tazio]

So all McLaren needs to do is have Ryan make a public statement,
saying he instructed young Lewis to lie with out any instruction from Marty!
Why do I think this will only happen if they are called before the WMSC?

[Mauri A]

Something is very rotten in that organization. I blame Martin Whitmarsh.

I hope Mr Whitmarsh suspendes himself.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Sporting director at McLaren, now that's a job I sooo do not want. Over 30 years of service and then being made a scapegoat. Of course there is the chance that he really did decide on his own to put the wrong answer in, but I doubt it.

[MrJan]

Bla bla bla!
Another attempt to make McLiars look good by throwing mud to everyone else. You McFanatics are pathetic.

You're quite simple aren't you? I have said time and time again that I'm not a McLaren fan, or infact a fan of any team. I support a driver who I like rather than the team who he drives for.

I dislike Ron Dennis intensely, I also don't particularly like Ferrari, RBR and Williams, or for that matter most of the grid. They are all cheating though, look at the Toyota wing last weekend, the guys running the dodgy diffusers, Ferrari in the past and McLaren and Ferrari together with the spygate thing. Anyone who thinks that there is a single team in F1 doing things by the book is, IMO, naive.

I say it again, the whole sport is infected, most sports are.

[Valve Bounce]

Sporting director at McLaren, now that's a job I sooo do not want. Over 30 years of service and then being made a scapegoat. Of course there is the chance that he really did decide on his own to put the wrong answer in, but I doubt it.

Maybe!! He did go into the meeting shortly after the race and, according to Hamilton, he just said what Ryan told him to. Can't understand why, becaue Hamilton had already given an interview to the press after the race, and besides the communication was taped. What was he thinking?

[ioan]

Ol' Davey-boy gets the scapegoat treatment. Not bad for 30 years of service.

McLaren = low-life soulless corporation, but that is nothing new to me.
I wonder how does Mercedes feel about being associated with them.

[ioan]

You're quite simple aren't you?

Best things in life are the simple things. :p :

I don't care who you support, however I find your mudslinging, towards people who did nothing compared to what McLaren and Leis are doing, pathetic.

[Dave B]

It must be nice for you, after all those years of having to defend Ferrari :p

[Bobby_Hamlin]

McLaren are damned if they do and damned if they don't in the haters' eyes. They discipline Ryan and they're low-life ingrates looking for a scapegoat and if they hadn't you'd say they were condoning the lies.

It's mildly amusing for someone with little or no partisan feeling to observe the polarisation on these boards. Personally I just can't wait for more good racing.

[MrJan]

Best things in life are the simple things. :p :

I don't care who you support, however I find your mudslinging, towards people who did nothing compared to what McLaren and Leis are doing, pathetic.

I'm not saying that people cheat as much or more than McLaren but you talk like they are the only team in F1 who are cheating, I'm saying that the problem runs much deeper than that. Afterall if a team can gain restricted information from another (regardless of how they do it) there is something wrong. Degrees of cheating shouldn't matter either, just because McLaren get caught out lying to stewards shouldn't mean that the issue of trying to field an illegible car (Toyota) or banger racing (could be aimed at Rubens) should go unnoticed.

And the reason I stated that I don't support a team is because you called me a McFanatic which is clearly wrong.

[ioan]

It must be nice for you, after all those years of having to defend Ferrari :p

Well, I did that without trying to bring the other teams down.

And it was easy to defend Ferrari, simply because 99% of the accusations were so stupid I was sometimes wondering how can a human mind come up with such ideas. ;)

[MrJan]

Well, I did that without trying to bring the other teams down.

No, let's raise them all up on a pedastal and admire them for how they get away with cheating. F1 is like professional cycling, no one is cheating until they get caught ;)

[ArrowsFA1]

I wonder how does Mercedes feel about being associated with them.
Good question. The success of Brawn-Mercedes provides a convenient 'ship' to jump to if they felt they needed to disassociate themselves from McLaren, or if Max gets his stated wish and McLaren are removed from F1.

I am not convinced the former will happen. The latter...

[SGWilko]

McLaren are damned if they do and damned if they don't in the haters' eyes. They discipline Ryan and they're low-life ingrates looking for a scapegoat and if they hadn't you'd say they were condoning the lies.

It's mildly amusing for someone with little or no partisan feeling to observe the polarisation on these boards. Personally I just can't wait for more good racing.

:up: Amen

Some on here have more faces than that large timepiece in Parliament Square.

Big whatsit......... ;)

[markabilly]

I hope Mr Whitmarsh suspendes himself.
I would like to see the email traffic... :eek: ..where is freddie A when the sport needs him to leak out the truth.... :confused:

[dj_bytedisaster]

Someone has to slap some common sense into that kid. So, ok, lets for a moment assume that he was really being told by Ryan to lie about the overtaking instruction, but LEWIS, WHY?? :eek:

In his Q&A he said, they told him so and he did it WTF?? I wasn't in a situation where I was earning millions, but I was in a situation were I quit a job, because I was ordered something I couldn't do in clear conciousness. Team play ends at lying Lewis. Get a mind of your own.

[SGWilko]

I would like to see the email traffic

Apparently, this traffic was stuck behind a hastily deployed FIA safety car.....

[pino]

Bla bla bla!
Another attempt to make McLiars look good by throwing mud to everyone else. You McFanatics are pathetic.

ioan, please watch the language, I am not going to ask you again !

[Dave B]

Someone has to slap some common sense into that kid. So, ok, lets for a moment assume that he was really being told by Ryan to lie about the overtaking instruction, but LEWIS, WHY?? :eek:

In his Q&A he said, they told him so and he did it WTF?? I wasn't in a situation where I was earning millions, but I was in a situation were I quit a job, because I was ordered something I couldn't do in clear conciousness. Team play ends at lying Lewis. Get a mind of your own.
Yup. As I said in the other thread, Lewis is demonstrating that he's not yet the finished article. Brilliant on the racetrack, certainly, but he occasionally shows a staggering naïvity about the politics of F1. I'm sure he'll get there with experience.

[christophulus]

Yup. As I said in the other thread, Lewis is demonstrating that he's not yet the finished article. Brilliant on the racetrack, certainly, but he occasionally shows a staggering naïvity about the politics of F1. I'm sure he'll get there with experience.

I sincerely hope so, I'm confident that he'll get there but this is going to hang over him now like some of the questionable (my opinion!) things that Schumacher did. Real shame :(

[Dave B]

Recent history has shown that to become a champion you do need that certain ruthless selfish streak, and to occasionally put one's morals to one side. Schumacher and Alonso demonstrated that, and I can't help but wonder if Lewis is going down the same route. That said, I've seen footage of his apology and I've got to say it certainly seems genuine and heartfelt.

That said, I've seen footage of his apology and I've got to say it certainly seems genuine and heartfelt.

And fairies live at the bottom of your garden do they?

[SGWilko]

And fairies live at the bottom of your garden do they?

Nah, the two guys like that live two doors down from me......

[wedge]

Something is very rotten in that organization. I blame Martin Whitmarsh.

So was Benetton in 1994. Accused of using TC, tampering with fuel rigs, I blame Schumacher :D

[DexDexter]

You're quite simple aren't you? I have said time and time again that I'm not a McLaren fan, or infact a fan of any team. I support a driver who I like rather than the team who he drives for.

I dislike Ron Dennis intensely, I also don't particularly like Ferrari, RBR and Williams, or for that matter most of the grid. They are all cheating though, look at the Toyota wing last weekend, the guys running the dodgy diffusers, Ferrari in the past and McLaren and Ferrari together with the spygate thing. Anyone who thinks that there is a single team in F1 doing things by the book is, IMO, naive.

I say it again, the whole sport is infected, most sports are.

I agree that all the teams take the rules to the "edge" and beyond, Ferrari included. In the old days Ferrari were usually fast at Monza no matter what car they were using, suddenly a complete dog became fast, a good example of that being 92 twin-floor concept Ferrari which surprise surprise was very quick at Monza, and was it all down to testing? Don't think so. And the real cheating is going to start with the possible budget cap, there are all sorts of ways to go around it.

[christophulus]

Recent history has shown that to become a champion you do need that certain ruthless selfish streak, and to occasionally put one's morals to one side. Schumacher and Alonso demonstrated that, and I can't help but wonder if Lewis is going down the same route. That said, I've seen footage of his apology and I've got to say it certainly seems genuine and heartfelt.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7980593.stm

[dj_bytedisaster]

Recent history has shown that to become a champion you do need that certain ruthless selfish streak, and to occasionally put one's morals to one side. Schumacher and Alonso demonstrated that, and I can't help but wonder if Lewis is going down the same route. That said, I've seen footage of his apology and I've got to say it certainly seems genuine and heartfelt.

No it isn't. It's just another lie. Do you really buy that junk that they told him - "hey you lie,ok?" and he did it? What if they instruct him to order a serbian bean soup in a croation restaurant or to walk into a bar in Alabama with a "Fcuk Rednecks!"-Shirt? Will he get himself killed? Want to see some class? Go to the Red Bull garage. Seb Vettel owned up to making a mistake even though he wasn't the only one to blame for the shunt. And even after it got him a dubious 10 positions penalty, he went on with it and answers the question on the track. Lewis has lost not only his face, but all credibility as well in the process.

[SGWilko]

No it isn't. It's just another lie. Do you really buy that junk that they told him - "hey you lie,ok?" and he did it? What if they instruct him to order a serbian bean soup in a croation restaurant or to walk into a bar in Alabama with a "Fcuk Rednecks!"-Shirt? Will he get himself killed? Want to see some class? Go to the Red Bull garage. Seb Vettel owned up to making a mistake even though he wasn't the only one to blame for the shunt. And even after it got him a dubious 10 positions penalty, he went on with it and answers the question on the track. Lewis has lost not only his face, but all credibility as well in the process.

Ladies and gents, we have our own Psychologist/Behaviouralist in our midst.

Tell me, what colour kecks am I wearing, oh all knowing one? ;)

[christophulus]

No it isn't. It's just another lie. Do you really buy that junk that they told him - "hey you lie,ok?" and he did it? What if they instruct him to order a serbian bean soup in a croation restaurant or to walk into a bar in Alabama with a "Fcuk Rednecks!"-Shirt? Will he get himself killed? Want to see some class? Go to the Red Bull garage. Seb Vettel owned up to making a mistake even though he wasn't the only one to blame for the shunt. And even after it got him a dubious 10 positions penalty, he went on with it and answers the question on the track. Lewis has lost not only his face, but all credibility as well in the process.

I think it was a genuine apology, it certainly looks that way from his body language. However, he lied, simple as that. If Dave Ryan lied to the stewards then he has to go, you can't have people being dishonest and then support them.

However, despite the honest apology, I think it's nonsense for Hamilton to try and hide behind the excuse of "I was told to lie". It is that that has lost him so much credibility and respect, certainly from me. He'll have to work bloody hard to win back the respect from people now :down:

[dj_bytedisaster]

Ladies and gents, we have our own Psychologist/Behaviouralist in our midst.

Tell me, what colour kecks am I wearing, oh all knowing one? ;)

I'm specialized in truth preception related syndromes, I don't do color perception. That particular area is worked on by Dr. S. Wonder. :D

[Knock-on]

I think it was a genuine apology, it certainly looks that way from his body language. However, he lied, simple as that. If Dave Ryan lied to the stewards then he has to go, you can't have people being dishonest and then support them.

However, despite the honest apology, I think it's nonsense for Hamilton to try and hide behind the excuse of "I was told to lie". It is that that has lost him so much credibility and respect, certainly from me. He'll have to work bloody hard to win back the respect from people now :down:

Agreed.

He made a mistake and needs to take it on the chin and move on.

Just keep his head down and race as hard as possible.

[SilverArrows]

Lewis looked extremely uncomfortable in that press conference - crossed arms, not making much eye contact with anyone when answering a question.

By saying I'm not a liar, not dishonest etc he is lying because it was proven he had lied. Squirming his way out of it by saying 'I was misled I just did what I was told' shows a weakness in character and damages his integrity. He's an adult he should accept responsibility for his part in the affair instead of allowing his race engineer to be made the total scapegoat. Both lied, both should share the blame imo. Although McLaren have probably done this to escape further punishment.

[Garry Walker]

Pathetic Hamilton. Instead of being a man, he puts the blame on someone else. This shows that he is either a liar or a weakling with no testicular fortitude, only a weak would behave like hamilton did and lie like that simply because someone told him to (provided it was as McLaren is claiming, something that one cannot trust too much lately).

[Daniel]

You're quite simple aren't you? I have said time and time again that I'm not a McLaren fan, or infact a fan of any team. I support a driver who I like rather than the team who he drives for.

I dislike Ron Dennis intensely, I also don't particularly like Ferrari, RBR and Williams, or for that matter most of the grid. They are all cheating though, look at the Toyota wing last weekend, the guys running the dodgy diffusers, Ferrari in the past and McLaren and Ferrari together with the spygate thing. Anyone who thinks that there is a single team in F1 doing things by the book is, IMO, naive.

I say it again, the whole sport is infected, most sports are.

Perhaps the sport is infected but until other people are found to be cheating then they must be presumed innocent. McLaren are the only team who in the last few years seem to have had a pathological tendancy for lying, misrepresenting the truth and not taking responsibility for their own actions. This much is clear and this much is fact. If other teams do something similar then lets talk about that but until they do McLaren are on their own in having this history of not telling the truth.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Thre's one particular thing, that really gets me in this. We are all very quick in saying "Oh you're a Hamilton fan boy", something like that. I see no problem with that - mention Nigel Mansell and I'm triggering into instant hero-worship mode.
What I don't understand is - why don't the fans speak up? Why didn't MS fans didn't speak up when he tried to flatten JV in Jerez, why don't Lewis fans speak up now. Why do they try to defend what has been done or try to blame someone else, why don't they just write an email to his fanclub adress or his management saying "We like you pal, but make sure you never pull such a stunt again"?

[yodasarmpit]

What a bloody mess.
Hamilton's heartfelt apology seamed genuine, genuine of someone caught out and now regretting the consequences. He knows he screwed up.
We will never know the full truth if this was a team order or just from Dave Ryan, however it does appear that Ryan will play the role of patsy in this saga.

[goodf1fun]

tell me your country to tell you who you are...!

[dj_bytedisaster]

tell me your country to tell you who you are...!

Germany :D Tell me you would have picked Nigel as the first choice ;)

[UltimateDanGTR]

Mclaren as a whole team did not cheat, It was just down to one guy, much like the spying saga. That guy was Dave Ryan, He made a huge mistake. But Hamilton also has to take a bit of the wrap, He didnt make much effort to question Ryan's decision to make jimself mislead the stewards. The rest of the team did nothing wrong. But because of 1 guy (well 1.5 is more accurate) the team once again has recieved a bad name as a cheating decieving ruthless organisation because of a small minority in the team.

Just my opinion.......

[Garry Walker]

Mclaren as a whole team did not cheat, It was just down to one guy, much like the spying saga.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: Spying saga was down to one guy?
I guess you are a labour voter then.

[UltimateDanGTR]

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: Spying saga was down to one guy?
I guess you are a labour voter then.

Actually I hate all political parties, they're all wrong and useless ;)


And the spying saga was down to one guy in mclaren, who as soon as anyone else found out he got fired. simple as. ;)

[ioan]

And the spying saga was down to one guy in mclaren, who as soon as anyone else found out he got fired. simple as. ;)

:rotflmao: :laugh:

[dj_bytedisaster]

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: Spying saga was down to one guy?
I guess you are a labour voter then.

No need for calling names, but true neither the spying scandal, nor the current shennigans are down to one guy. McLaren have an attitude problem. either they get their act together or they're about to obsolete themselves. Even when they're playing foul, they're too thick to pull it off without making a monkeys breakfast of it - just try "fair" for a change you pillocks!!!

[PSfan]

There are very very few times I agree with anything Bernie Ecclestone says, on this subject we agree:

Bernie Ecclestone told the SID news agency he could not believe Dave Ryan had been suspended, admitting he suspects the McLaren veteran is a "scapegoat".

"Dave Ryan is only an employee. Does he act on his own?" the F1 chief executive is quoted as saying.


I am really really disappointed Hamilton threw his "team-mate" under the bus in his "apology" statement. reeks of towing the line, But I suppose its better to continue to be "led" then be accused of blackmail...

[Tazio]

But I suppose its better to continue to be "led" then be accused of blackmail...
Translation:
Its beter to be a spineless Jelly-fish, than a stand-up dude!

[Hawkmoon]

I can quite believe that Hamilton did as he was instructed. McLaren like little robo-drivers who say what they are told. It's why Alonso and JPM didn't last and why Hakkinen and Coulthard lasted forever. Hamilton's been a little McLaren robo-driver for a long time so it doesn't surprise me that he'd do as instructed. I don't think he likes it all the time but programming is hard to shake.

What I'm struggling with is McLaren's use of the "but it was only one guy" excuse twice in less than 2 years. Does anybody really believe that McLaren, of all teams, has had two employees go "rogue" in less than two years? Ryan had worked there for 30 years! The man must have bled McLaren corporate colours! After 30 years service he up and decides to lie to the stewards and get Hamilton to do the same, all for the sake of 1 championship point?

I reckon McLaren are breeding flying pigs around the back of the workshop.

[Daniel]

I can quite believe that Hamilton did as he was instructed. McLaren like little robo-drivers who say what they are told. It's why Alonso and JPM didn't last and why Hakkinen and Coulthard lasted forever. Hamilton's been a little McLaren robo-driver for a long time so it doesn't surprise me that he'd do as instructed. I don't think he likes it all the time but programming is hard to shake.

What I'm struggling with is McLaren's use of the "but it was only one guy" excuse twice in less than 2 years. Does anybody really believe that McLaren, of all teams, has had two employees go "rogue" in less than two years? Ryan had worked there for 30 years! The man must have bled McLaren corporate colours! After 30 years service he up and decides to lie to the stewards and get Hamilton to do the same, all for the sake of 1 championship point?

I reckon McLaren are breeding flying pigs around the back of the workshop.
How dare you accuse the house of integrity of being rotten!?!?!??!?!?!?! *Insert some argument about a red team which is actually pointless because we're talking about the actions of the silver team who DID actually lie rather than the red team who weren't even involved* *insert remark about 7 time champion who wasn't even in a car on the track at the time* *insert remark about vendetta that has been dreamt up between Mosely and McLaren* *ignore the fact of the matter that McLaren and Hamilton lied and no one else did*

STORY! End of!

:( :( :( :( :( <-Those are to make you feel sorry for me and for Lewis btw.

[Valve Bounce]

Recent history has shown that to become a champion you do need that certain ruthless selfish streak, and to occasionally put one's morals to one side. Schumacher and Alonso demonstrated that, and I can't help but wonder if Lewis is going down the same route. That said, I've seen footage of his apology and I've got to say it certainly seems genuine and heartfelt.

You should have seen Tony Mokbel :rolleyes:

[Valve Bounce]

What I'm struggling with is McLaren's use of the "but it was only one guy" excuse twice in less than 2 years. Does anybody really believe that McLaren, of all teams, has had two employees go "rogue" in less than two years? Ryan had worked there for 30 years! The man must have bled McLaren corporate colours! After 30 years service he up and decides to lie to the stewards and get Hamilton to do the same, all for the sake of 1 championship point?


In this case, I do. The Stewards called them up too quickly for Whitmarsh to cook anything up. Ryan and Hamilton were just too stupid to realise that they would have been caught for telling porkers.

I reckon Hamilton needs to have his knuckles rapped. Go pick up 3 bags of dog poo, Lewis!! (see my post in the other thread).

[Hawkmoon]

In this case, I do. The Stewards called them up too quickly for Whitmarsh to cook anything up. Ryan and Hamilton were just too stupid to realise that they would have been caught for telling porkers.

I reckon Hamilton needs to have his knuckles rapped. Go pick up 3 bags of dog poo, Lewis!! (see my post in the other thread).

McLaren had at least an hour from the end of the race. Plenty of time to cook something up.

[Daniel]

McLaren had at least an hour from the end of the race. Plenty of time to cook something up.
I have to lie every single day at work and I figure out a plausable excuse in less than 2 seconds most times :mark:

[SGWilko]

Mclaren as a whole team did not cheat, It was just down to one guy, much like the spying saga. That guy was Dave Ryan, He made a huge mistake. But Hamilton also has to take a bit of the wrap, He didnt make much effort to question Ryan's decision to make jimself mislead the stewards. The rest of the team did nothing wrong. But because of 1 guy (well 1.5 is more accurate) the team once again has recieved a bad name as a cheating decieving ruthless organisation because of a small minority in the team.

Just my opinion.......

We don't, won't and can't ever know the truth about this. That is the big issue.

How dare you accuse the house of integrity of being rotten!?!?!??!?!?!?! *Insert some argument about a red team which is actually pointless because we're talking about the actions of the silver team who DID actually lie rather than the red team who weren't even involved* *insert remark about 7 time champion who wasn't even in a car on the track at the time* *insert remark about vendetta that has been dreamt up between Mosely and McLaren* *ignore the fact of the matter that McLaren and Hamilton lied and no one else did*

STORY! End of!

:( :( :( :( :( <-Those are to make you feel sorry for me and for Lewis btw.

Excellent. You could syndicate that post to all Mclaren apologists! Just think of the time they would save typing it for themselves!