Police State?

[Hazell B]

I'm starting to feel the police are heavy handed and a bit too keen on using their powers these days.

Forget G20 and it's (probable) dodgy over-police uses, look at York's current situation.

A woman has gone missing in York, with police saying they believed she was taken from home after dark one evening. However, the same day they released that information, they had search teams going door to door on her route to work, searching attics in ALL of the houses.

I saw it mentioned on the local news, then heard from a friend that her sister's home was searched hours after the police statement saying the missing woman almost certainly hadn't vanished on her way to work. The sister was told by an officer that allowing a search in her home would help 'eliminate her house' and 'waiting for her husband's permission may make the house appear suspect'

I thought searches were only underatken in suspect's homes, not everyone's home. It's just plain wrong.
What next?

[Daniel]

That is a little crap. Personally i think the violent protestors in London should have been beaten to a bloody pulp.

[donKey jote]

look at York's current situation.

I thought searches were only underatken in suspect's homes, not everyone's home. It's just plain wrong.
What next?
Maybe everyone in York is a suspect (bit like searching everyone at airports, for example) :p :
blah blah nothing to hide, nothing to fear blah blah :dozey: :rolleyes:

Still, I recently watched Red Riding, and York police is scary :p :

[F1fanru]

That is a little crap. Personally i think the violent protesters in London should have been beaten to a bloody pulp.

Here, here
The photographers are encouraging them. The video from RBS clearly shows that they are more interested violence then stopping it. There must of been at least 30 photographers shooting the a$$hole busting the windows.

[Dave B]

The searches would have required co-operation from the householder, as the police had no warrants anybody could have legitimately refused them entry. I don't see anything heavy handed about that.

As for G20, it's a damn shame the eyes of the world's media were on the police otherwise they could have given those childish hippies a damn good kicking up the arse.

[Storm]

Whats wrong in letting them search your house (for a living person mind you...not as if they were ransacking the whole thing for some object) if you really have nothing to hide?

[Eki]

A woman has gone missing in York, with police saying they believed she was taken from home after dark one evening. However, the same day they released that information, they had search teams going door to door on her route to work, searching attics in ALL of the houses.

They should be searching Oily Oaf's basement.

[gadjo_dilo]

I'm starting to feel the police are heavy handed and a bit too keen on using their powers these days.


At least they're doing something to solve cases. Our police is a total joke. Right now we're in the middle of a big scandal with political connotation. In brief: one of the richest and most mediased guy who had his car stolen 3 months ago was arrested yesterday because his bodyguards caught the thives and allegedly dashed them into the trunk of a car in the middle of the night, then they were taken to hs residence and detained for nearly three hours.
Now the thieves are free and the loser in emprisoned. The funny thing is that things happened 3 months ago and only yesterday morning about 30 brave policemen with mask on their figures assaulted the businessman house. Then he left the house driving his own luxury car with 3 masked policemen sitting comfortably in the limousine and listerning to religious music.

[Wade91]

to just search everyones house like that is really stupid and a waist of time

[Mark]

But if you refuse to let them into your house you make yourself a suspect!

It depends what level of search they require, I know I certainly wouldn't be happy about police going through my cupboards and loft. I mean, I've never even been in the loft!

[Storm]

maybe there could be someone hiding on your loft, Mark :p :

basically it is stupid if they are searching every house for no reason, but I think they are probably doing it to just "check" in case or they had a tip as to her whereabouts...better search now with a hope of finding her quickly than get a warrant and give plenty of time for the kidnappers/suspects to get away.

[steve_spackman]

Here, here
The photographers are encouraging them. The video from RBS clearly shows that they are more interested violence then stopping it. There must of been at least 30 photographers shooting the a$$hole busting the windows.

indeed...

most of the protesters in London i would say didnt have a job anyway and got money from the state. Didnt have anything better to do on those days i spose..

[Sonic]

maybe there could be someone hiding on your loft, Mark :p :

Just checked my loft - an entire baby grand piano, a small circus group called Zonka's and short round from Temple of doom had found their way up there :D

Now I wonder whats in the basement??

[Mark in Oshawa]

indeed...

most of the protesters in London i would say didnt have a job anyway and got money from the state. Didnt have anything better to do on those days i spose..


I heard about those protesters, and I thought "where is Eki?"

As for letting people search house by house? Ummm you have a warrent for entry from a Judge? If not...you don't enter. If a woman is missing in my neighbourhood in particular I might let them in but searching the whole city? Good lord what a fishing expedition THAT is.....

[BDunnell]

I'm starting to feel the police are heavy handed and a bit too keen on using their powers these days.

I generally agree, especially about the last bit - there have been far too many ridiculous examples of anti-terror legislation being used in situations that have nothing to do with terrorism. This does nothing to make anyone safer. In fact, far from it, as there is a danger that the police and Government are seen to 'cry wolf' too often.

[Hazell B]

Am I reading this correctly - some of you think it's okay for police to knock on your door and ask to search your home just because you live on a route a missing person may have taken?

You're nuts, the lot of you!

Do you realise how many people go missing every week in the UK? You almost certainly would end up being searched two or three times each year if all forces started to search like this. York had over 100 officers search over 220 homes in one day (police figures, offered in a live press conference on local TV).

If they start getting away with this sort of 'investigation' tactic, it will soon become law that we must allow them entry. After all, if more than 50% of householders allow searches, the public have basically given it a green light!

[Dave B]

Am I reading this correctly - some of you think it's okay for police to knock on your door and ask to search your home just because you live on a route a missing person may have taken?
Yes, and the crucial word is "ask". If they had a right of entry I'd be concerned, but I can count the number of missing kids in this area since I've lived here on one hand so wouldn't view it as any kind of inconvenience to help them out.

[Mark]

There is a poster up in Chester-le-Street which I find rather worrying. It's text is along the lines of
"Will a bomb explode here"
"No; Because someone reported a person investigating the CCTV cameras".

Hmm. So we're not allowed to look at the CCTV cameras now.

[Daniel]

There is a poster up in Chester-le-Street which I find rather worrying. It's text is along the lines of
"Will a bomb explode here"
"No; Because someone reported a person investigating the CCTV cameras".

Hmm. So we're not allowed to look at the CCTV cameras now.
Yes but you're one of "us" Mark. You're alright ;)

[Hazell B]

... I can count the number of missing kids in this area ....

I think you're missunderstanding - it's not a search for a child that's gotten me annoyed. The woman missing is 35. Remember, the police had already issued a statement saying she had almost certainly not vanished along the search route, yet the search started anyhow.

In the 20 days that have passed with her missing, another few dozen people will also have vanished but not had the media coverage (most aren't as pretty ;) ) If they all ended up being used as an excuse for home searches ... you'd soon all get worried about privacy and police tactics!

[jim mcglinchey]

What the hell is it about Yorkshire? Why is it always on the national news for the wrong reasons? The latest incident is of course, the two kids who knifed and beat anothert two kids. Are they all a bit mentalist in Yorkshire???

[Hazell B]

Got to say we probably have the loudest media and worst police in parts of Yorkshire, so we do get far more coverage than we deserve.
Not all of it's bad, but it is rather overplayed at times.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Yorkshire is a VERY nice place Jim....probably is the reason the Media overplays any stupidity, they are in shock when it happens....

[BDunnell]

There is a poster up in Chester-le-Street which I find rather worrying. It's text is along the lines of
"Will a bomb explode here"
"No; Because someone reported a person investigating the CCTV cameras".

Hmm. So we're not allowed to look at the CCTV cameras now.

And the photo includes lots of mothers and children. It is another example of, in effect, emotional blackmail designed to make us feel more cowed by the threat of terrorism and to make us believe that draconian measures such as increased surveillance and the increased use of anti-terror powers are acceptable, because otherwise the nice-looking people in the advert will all be blown up. I really don't like it, as you might have guessed.

[BDunnell]

Yorkshire is a VERY nice place Jim....

I agree. I spent three years in Sheffield and go back as often as I can. Lovely part of the world.

[martinbalmer]

There is a poster up in Chester-le-Street which I find rather worrying. It's text is along the lines of
"Will a bomb explode here"
"No; Because someone reported a person investigating the CCTV cameras".

Hmm. So we're not allowed to look at the CCTV cameras now.

I've seen a branch of that advertising campaign and thought exactly the same.

[555-04Q2]

Whats wrong in letting them search your house (for a living person mind you...not as if they were ransacking the whole thing for some object) if you really have nothing to hide?

Its your right to refuse if no search warrant is issued. If half a dozen coppers pitched up at my house without a warrant and wanted to tread their dirty shoes all over my floor, I'd tell them to kiss my ar$e and come back with a warrant.

[Captain VXR]

And the photo includes lots of mothers and children. It is another example of, in effect, emotional blackmail designed to make us feel more cowed by the threat of terrorism and to make us believe that draconian measures such as increased surveillance and the increased use of anti-terror powers are acceptable, because otherwise the nice-looking people in the advert will all be blown up. I really don't like it, as you might have guessed.

I agree, stupid labour government :mad:

[Storm]

Its your right to refuse if no search warrant is issued. If half a dozen coppers pitched up at my house without a warrant and wanted to tread their dirty shoes all over my floor, I'd tell them to kiss my ar$e and come back with a warrant.

I know its your right, but sometimes (!) common sense should take precedence over laws/rights, don't you think?

I'm not advocating a search of the complete town but if in a case such as this, the police have a tip-off/hunch about the person being in a certain locality/area and they are not really going through your things (just all your rooms for example...) then why not...was my point of view.

[GridGirl]

Yorkshire....a crime hotspot indeed. Last night someone tried to break into my other half house and broke the locks on both the back and conservatory doors. No doubt the only reason they tried to break in was to steal the keys for the three cars that are less than three years old which were all parked on the driveway. The other half realised this morning when he found he couldn't actually get out the house to go to work but personally I think that was just an excuse.

So why am I looking to move to Yorkshire again? God knows! :p

[Drew]

There is a poster up in Chester-le-Street which I find rather worrying. It's text is along the lines of
"Will a bomb explode here"
"No; Because someone reported a person investigating the CCTV cameras".

Hmm. So we're not allowed to look at the CCTV cameras now.

I've seen that on the tube in London! As if you need to scaremonger anymore!

And there's a huge difference between policing of protests. In Italy ever protest I saw there were just police at the back of the crowd and along the way every so often and the police just leaved them alone. But in the UK you see the police completely dictating everything and just being in the way, they're already angry at something, that's why they're protesting! No need to get in the way too much and make things worse

[555-04Q2]

I know its your right, but sometimes (!) common sense should take precedence over laws/rights, don't you think?

I'm not advocating a search of the complete town but if in a case such as this, the police have a tip-off/hunch about the person being in a certain locality/area and they are not really going through your things (just all your rooms for example...) then why not...was my point of view.

Common sense is for sensible people. I'm not sensible :p :

[AAReagles]

Strange. It has been 20 years ago since the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 started to unfold and captivate an entire world. Everyone hopeful that the students/demonstrators just might get over the hump and acquire some form of democracy. Stationed in Germany, with everyone else staying tuned to the news day by day, never in my imagination did I figure that any of us Westerners would be talking about police states encompassing our societies.

Sorry to laugh on some of the discussion, but it's almost as humorous as the wacky paranoia portrayed in Stanley Kubrick's 'Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb.

Guess that old phrase is true after all; 'just because I'm paranoid doesnt mean that they're not out to get me.'

[BDunnell]

Strange. It has been 20 years ago since the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 started to unfold and captivate an entire world. Everyone hopeful that the students/demonstrators just might get over the hump and acquire some form of democracy. Stationed in Germany, with everyone else staying tuned to the news day by day, never in my imagination did I figure that any of us Westerners would be talking about police states encompassing our societies.

Sorry to laugh on some of the discussion, but it's almost as humorous as the wacky paranoia portrayed in Stanley Kubrick's 'Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb.

Guess that old phrase is true after all; 'just because I'm paranoid doesnt mean that they're not out to get me.'

Which bits of the discussion, exactly? I don't see much paranoia here. Where I do see it is amongst those who are overly worried about the threat of terrorism.

[Hazell B]

I'm not advocating a search of the complete town but if in a case such as this, the police have a tip-off/hunch about the person being in a certain locality/area and they are not really going through your things (just all your rooms for example...) then why not...was my point of view.

That's what many people would think - then they'd realise it's not just a simple case of one person missing and hundreds trying to help the police.

The point is that thousands of people go missing. Almost all of them have a route they walk, drive or whatever day to day. In this case there was no hunch or tip off. There was even a police statement saying she had not vanished from the route in their opinion.

Yet still they searched private homes and still British people let them.

It's just wrong in our society.

[AAReagles]

Which bits of the discussion, exactly? I don't see much paranoia here. Where I do see it is amongst those who are overly worried about the threat of terrorism.

I don't see that as much as I do about folks concerned about cops entering their premises, and rightly so I suppose.

What I was referring to was the post Mark made:


There is a poster up in Chester-le-Street which I find rather worrying. It's text is along the lines of
"Will a bomb explode here"
"No; Because someone reported a person investigating the CCTV cameras".

Hmm. So we're not allowed to look at the CCTV cameras now. .


.... and the reactions to it. Not in the sense that there was paranoia expressed, but rather disgust as the Gov't public campaign of outreaching thru paranoia. At first I thought it was stupid too, but after reading those who reacted to it negatively, I started to find it funny - as in things get so silly, that "what are ya gonna do?"

[BDunnell]

.... and the reactions to it. Not in the sense that there was paranoia expressed, but rather disgust as the Gov't public campaign of outreaching thru paranoia. At first I thought it was stupid too, but after reading those who reacted to it negatively, I started to find it funny - as in things get so silly, that "what are ya gonna do?"

I know what you mean, and think that those who genuinely think we are living in a 'police state' are going over the top, because as you said this is nothing compared with, for example, East Germany pre-1989. However, I do still resent the creep of state interference and surveillance on the grounds that it's apparently 'in our own interests', and attempts to make us paranoid about such things as the terrorist threat in an effort to force through certain measures.

[steve_spackman]

I know what you mean, and think that those who genuinely think we are living in a 'police state' are going over the top, because as you said this is nothing compared with, for example, East Germany pre-1989. However, I do still resent the creep of state interference and surveillance on the grounds that it's apparently 'in our own interests', and attempts to make us paranoid about such things as the terrorist threat in an effort to force through certain measures.

Those in power use fear to manipulate and control us. Fear makes us the instruments of Power. When we are afraid, we obey. When we are afraid, we will do anything to feel safer.

http://www.fragmentsweb.org/fourtx/powfertx.html

[BDunnell]

Those in power use fear to manipulate and control us. Fear makes us the instruments of Power. When we are afraid, we obey. When we are afraid, we will do anything to feel safer.

http://www.fragmentsweb.org/fourtx/powfertx.html

'We' won't, but enough people are stupid enough to believe what they read or are told that an acceptance of threat develops. That's when governments are able to put in place measures 'in all our interests' which are utterly unnecessary.

[Hazell B]

Which is exactly what I'm saying here!

The more people allow searches in their homes, the more we're liable to see it become normal and then law. This one woman has vanished, and I feel for her and her family, but I refuse to believe searching over 1,000 student rooms and a total of over 300 private homes was in any way an aid to finding her .... as proved by time. She's still missing.

It starts with the public being put in a position of 'wanting to help' thanks to this kind of stealth search tactic being used in emotive cases like a missing pretty girl or small child. Pretty soon it will be a search for whatever they damned well like - and I bet they find something dodgy in about half of the UK's homes! Look at Stop and Search, they have used "looked confident" as an excuse to search some people!

[donKey jote]

who's watching you? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/whos_watching_you/8064333.stm)
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[ShiftingGears]

who's watching you? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/whos_watching_you/8064333.stm)
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

Britain is going OTT with that stuff.

[donKey jote]

No no... they will never surrender to ID cards... now that would be over the top :p : :laugh: