Webber Slams Williams

[RJL25]

interesting article...

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,21216529-23770,00.html

and he says all of this AFTER williams reasonably impressive testing times, does this mean people in the paddock think that the williams times are a bit artificial? even more interesting....

discuss :D

[TOgoFASTER]

Oh Mark, not again. :rotflmao:

[Gannex]

Mark Webber did a good job for Williams. He gave it his all, so why shouldn't he be entitled to say what he thinks of his former team, even if it's critical? There's not much that Webber has said anyway that Williams fans aren't saying themselves, in private.

At Williams, Webber's input was wasted. He wasn't taken seriously. It reminded me of Heinz-Harald Frentzen at Jordan. Here was a guy desperate to improve the car, willing to do whatever it might take to move the development forward, but he wasn't even listened to. No one wanted to know. What a waste of talent and attitude, and no wonder Webber got discouraged. He'd been advised against Williams by Flavio Briatore, who until then he had always trusted. It gives me no satisfaction at all to admit that Flavio was right.

[Ari]

At Williams, the car was crap. Webber was way quicker than the car. He's spot on when he said the reliability was up but the car speed wasnt and vice versa. They could never get it balanced on the same day.

He's essentially moved to another B team as he calls them, this one though with a theoretically better B engine and more money. Hope it does the trick!

It's a ballsy article, as if Williams do well this year it might come back to bite him on the bum.

This year is likely to tell Webbers future in F1. That's a lot of pressure.

[Ari]

Mark Webber did a good job for Williams. He gave it his all, so why shouldn't he be entitled to say what he thinks of his former team, even if it's critical? There's not much that Webber has said anyway that Williams fans aren't saying themselves, in private.

At Williams, Webber's input was wasted. He wasn't taken seriously. It reminded me of Heinz-Harald Frentzen at Jordan. Here was a guy desperate to improve the car, willing to do whatever it might take to move the development forward, but he wasn't even listened to. No one wanted to know. What a waste of talent and attitude, and no wonder Webber got discouraged. He'd been advised against Williams by Flavio Briatore, who until then he had always trusted. It gives me no satisfaction at all to admit that Flavio was right.


....and had Webber made his decision to move quicker, he may well have signed with Renault before the bum shuffle started. Sigh.

[Gannex]

But signing for Renault would not have been as good as signing for Red Bull, I like to think. Red Bull have Adrian Newey and David Coulthard. These are two of the most consummate professionals in F1, and one of the best businessmen, after Frank Williams of course, is undoubtedly Dietrich Mateschitz. So Webber is joining a proven team, adding that last touch of inspiration that Red Bull need to push them to the front.

And Williams may well do fine, even without Webber. The drivers, especially Wurtz, are not going to let them down. Williams are at the top of the heap in the engine department, they have a mature seamless gearbox, tyres no worse than anyone else's: where are they deficient? I'm sure this is going to be Williams's year, with Red Bull a worthy runner-up. (Eat your heart out, Mark!!)

[Hawkmoon]

Haven't Williams's recent troubles been largely due to aero problems? They've been through a few aero guys recently and I seem to recall last years car being hard on the rears because they could never get a good enough balance on the car or a lack of grip was hurting them. Something like that, anyway.

I think it's advantage Red Bull in terms of aerodynamics due to the Newey factor and I think this will be enough to put the Scarlet Cows ahead. Aero is so important that it probably makes up for a deficient engine or less than perfect chassis.

[RJL25]

Williams problems last season whas essentially two things

First the aero was crap, just as it was the season before, and it wasn't even that crash hot the year before that. Its been on a steady downward slope and i really cant see why it would suddenly spark up again this season considering this years car obviously shares the same aero philosphy as last years car

The second this is the fact that williams monumentally botched up the installation of the cosworth engines, not that they will ever admit this. Yes they have shiney new engines from toyota this year but the problem last year was NEVER anything to do with the engines themselfs, rather the work that sam micheal and co did in installing them! They placed major electronic and hydronic systems too close to hot spots such as exhaust systems which generally made the car massively unrealiable. The unfortunate thing is that it made what was essentially a very good engine look like a steaming pile of rubbish and it cost cosworth its place in F1. A very big shame.

[mstillhere]

interesting article...

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,21216529-23770,00.html

and he says all of this AFTER williams reasonably impressive testing times, does this mean people in the paddock think that the williams times are a bit artificial? even more interesting....

discuss :D

You know, I might be old school or, maybe too shallow, but I wonder what's to gain when you are putting down your former team? First of all, it's not classy, not a bit, and second F1 is a small world so, would not you be better off in not burning any bridges?
I have a feeling that he might be jalous of the Williams performance compared to his own and maybe he is wondering if he should have stayed where he was.

[RJL25]

You know, I might be old school or, maybe too shallow, but I wonder what's to gain when you are putting down your former team? First of all, it's not classy, not a bit, and second F1 is a small world so, would not you be better off in not burning any bridges?
I have a feeling that he might be jalous of the Williams performance compared to his own and maybe he is wondering if he should have stayed where he was.

although i understand what your saying, everything mark said was in answering questions from the media, he wasn't deliberately bagging williams, rather he was answering questions. And mark has always been renowned, even by his critics, as incredibly honest when answering questions

[mstillhere]

although i understand what your saying, everything mark said was in answering questions from the media, he wasn't deliberately bagging williams, rather he was answering questions. And mark has always been renowned, even by his critics, as incredibly honest when answering questions

You know, I am starting wonder what's the point in reading the news from this and that site forming yourself an opinion about the subject matter to later find out that what you red was not exactly the whole thing, and the context was not what the article portraid it, and so on....
But I did think that Webber's words, as reported on that link, seemed to be unusally candid.
I appreciate the clarification.

[RJL25]

You know, I am starting wonder what's the point in reading the news from this and that site forming yourself an opinion about the subject matter to later find out that what you red was not exactly the whole thing, and the context was not what the article portraid it, and so on....
But I did think that Webber's words, as reported on that link, seemed to be unusally candid.
I appreciate the clarification.

what you have to understand is that its very rare for a driver to just track down a media person and say "hey guess what, i think this and that and blah blah", nearly EVERYTHING that a driver says to the media, as reported, is an answer to a question. Its just unfortunate that the media never report on what the question was half the time and it often appears that the drivers words have been "puppeted" if you like in such a way that creates a good story

[Tazio]

what you have to understand is that its very rare for a driver to just track down a media person and say "hey guess what, i think this and that and blah blah", nearly EVERYTHING that a driver says to the media, as reported, is an answer to a question. Its just unfortunate that the media never report on what the question was half the time and it often appears that the drivers words have been "puppeted" if you like in such a way that creates a good story

Evidence!
http://f1.automoto365.com/news/controller.php?lang=en&theme=default&month=2&year=2007&nextMode=GpNewsForm&news_id=24107


This article taken from the same interview has a substantialy less sensational
tone!

[RJL25]

there you go...

[W8&C]

I think it's advantage Red Bull in terms of aerodynamics due to the Newey factor and I think this will be enough to put the Scarlet Cows ahead. Aero is so important that it probably makes up for a deficient engine or less than perfect chassis.

Hmmm... currently to me it seems as if the "Newey factor" is makin´ Red Bull consistently slow. Or do you really believe they´re sandbagging throughout every testing day so far?

[RJL25]

Hmmm... currently to me it seems as if the "Newey factor" is makin´ Red Bull consistently slow. Or do you really believe they´re sandbagging throughout every testing day so far?

in a word, yes

redbull has ALWAYS been slower in testing then they have ended up being come first race of the season

[F1boat]

Let's see how fast is Webber in Red Bull. So far Williams owns Red Bull in testing.

[ArrowsFA1]

Much of what MW says comes from his disappointment at how things worked out at Williams. Many thought he was a 'good fit' for the team, and while that may have been based on nostalgia for the Jones days, it seemed to have an element of truth.

I don't think he's "slamming" the team, just giving his view of where Williams are now. Hopefully he'll be proved wrong and Williams-Toyota will bounce back.

[ioan]

... and one of the best businessmen, after Frank Williams of course, is undoubtedly Dietrich Mateschitz.

You must be kidding Gannex, F. Williams is nowhere as good as D. Mateschitz in terms of business, a look to their personal fortunes tells the story (not to mention the financial state of their respective F1 teams!).

[ArrowsFA1]

You must be kidding Gannex, F. Williams is nowhere as good as D. Mateschitz in terms of business, a look to their personal fortunes tells the story (not to mention the financial state of their respective F1 teams!).
It's a very different thing to build a F1 team from nothing and earn a fortune, than it is to buy an existing F1 team with a fortune.

[RJL25]

It's a very different thing to build a F1 team from nothing and earn a fortune, than it is to buy an existing F1 team with a fortune.

dont forget that when frank built his F1 team, F1 was a very different thing. It was less professional then champcar is today, and i would hardly say that its exceedingly difficult to build a champcar team (as much as i love champcar)

[XR8]

I think the heading "WEBER SLAMS WILLIAMS" is a bit dramatic as mark has only said the facts as even Williams itself has reported recently, saying that they had the worst season ever and had to do a better job to get back to its winning ways.I have been a long time Williams supporter since the days of Alan Jones and Keke Rosberg, but sadly as Bernie Eccelstone has said Franks bussiness plan no longer is appropriate for todays F1.Frank needs to change his bussiness approach for better funding etc as I sadly think that in a few years time they might be a prime candidate for a buyout from one of the larger manufacturer teams.
P.S. I hope I am wrong, for Franks sake!

[ArrowsFA1]

dont forget that when frank built his F1 team, F1 was a very different thing. It was less professional then champcar is today, and i would hardly say that its exceedingly difficult to build a champcar team (as much as i love champcar)
If you were to read Maurice Hamilton's biography of FW then I suspect you'd see just how "exceedingly difficult" it is to create and maintain a F1 team over a period of almost 40 years. Also, while it might not be "exceedingly difficult to build a champcar team" due to the spec chassis and efforts to cut costs, it remains difficult to have a successful team.

Frank Williams Racing Cars entered Piers Courage in the 1969 Spanish GP, and looking at the entry list for that race only Williams, McLaren and Ferrari remain in F1 today. Incidentally, it was just a year before that race that Lotus had introduced major sponsorship into F1.

Of course F1 has changed, but for ioan to say that "Williams is nowhere as good as Mateschitz in terms of business" is misleading. F1 is, and always has been, FW's business and there are few better than him in that business.

Sorry to go on, but FW has my respect for what he and his team have achieved over the years, and continue to strive for today. That may mean little to some in today's money-driven F1, but it does to me.

[ArrowsFA1]

For those suggesting Williams cannot afford to test in Bahrain:

Williams technical director Sam Michael has denied any suggestion that the decision to skip the Bahrain test was because of money.
"We are not doing Bahrain because our new car is out too late and we didn't want to send it somewhere so far away," he said. "If we had any problems it is very difficult for us to react to it.
"It does mean when we get to a hot weather track we won't have had as much running on these tyres as other teams, but we are pretty sure we know what is going to happen to them.
"And because of the extended Friday practice in Melbourne, that is going to give you more of a shot of it as well."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56711

[VresiBerba]

I'm actually starting to really dislike Webber. He's not accomplished anything at all during his years in F1, always seem to be involved in all kinds of incidents - it's almost like the incidents seek him out. His bad mouthing his team mates, his team and now takes another swipe at Williams, the team that he said "ruined his carrer".

Webber :down:

[Gannex]

Haven't Williams's recent troubles been largely due to aero problems? They've been through a few aero guys recently and I seem to recall last years car being hard on the rears because they could never get a good enough balance on the car or a lack of grip was hurting them.
I think you're right, Hawkmoon. It's been aero and reliability that have let Williams down. That, and the inability last year to develop the Cosworth. That started out strong, but lost ground to the big boys as they improved and Cosworth did not.

[tinchote]

I'm actually starting to really dislike Webber. He's not accomplished anything at all during his years in F1, always seem to be involved in all kinds of incidents - it's almost like the incidents seek him out. His bad mouthing his team mates, his team and now takes another swipe at Williams, the team that he said "ruined his carrer".

Webber :down:

Vresi :up:

At first sight the guys seems to be very nice, but when you think about the last few years altogether, he's had enough time to bash a lot of people. And that is not that nice.

[CarlMetro]

The arse that you kick today, could well be the one you have to kiss tomorrow ;)

No matter how much you dislike your employer I've always had the same view that you don't go around slating them, because you might need them later in life.

Whilst I understand the bitterness that Webber feels for the last two years, and the fact that he has a reputation for telling it like he sees it, the simple fact of the matter is that he didn't have to answer the questions fielded by the journo and if I was a team owner looking for another driver in a couple of years time I would be somewhat put off by his cander.

[wedge]

Webbo is entitled to his opinion. I think he's just gutted at how things turned out at Williams.

Unluckily he joined the team just as when the teams' relationship with BMW was reaching rock bottom. Webbo was/is at the stage of his GP career where he should be getting solid points finish at most races - arguably this might have happened if Williams still had BMW.

To me, Webbo's criticisms show how ambitious he is. He now has the best of both worlds, a contemporary GP driver's dream - Renualt power and Newey chassis!

[Mickey T]

Evidence!
http://f1.automoto365.com/news/controller.php?lang=en&theme=default&month=2&year=2007&nextMode=GpNewsForm&news_id=24107


This article taken from the same interview has a substantialy less sensational
tone!

Not evidence of anything.

Mark did a 40 minute interview with me for a season preview piece for a Melbourne newspaper. neither of us actually had any idea it would end up on the fox website.

over the course of the interview, Mark had maybe five minutes of comments on Williams, mostly in comparative terms or as an overview. the sports editors wanted these pulled together into a williams-related article, even though the Williams had not tested when the interview was conducted.

the headline didn't reflect my intent, nor did it reflect mark's. he didn't slam williams at all.

Yes, all the quotes are his, but the angry tone portrayed by the headline is not. His expression and emotion about the team has always been one of disbelief that it could all have gone so wrong, rather than bitterness or anger.

this other website wasn't there, didn't have a transcript of the interview and illegally stole intellectual copyright without attribution. they certainly had no idea of the context of the interview, nor how mark felt about anything.

[ioan]

It's a very different thing to build a F1 team from nothing and earn a fortune, than it is to buy an existing F1 team with a fortune.

Both built something from very little, one of them is very rich and may buy whatever and the other is fighting to keep something from what he had.
Don't distort reality just for the sake of nationality!

[ioan]

Of course F1 has changed, but for ioan to say that "Williams is nowhere as good as Mateschitz in terms of business" is misleading.

No it isn't, Mateschitz has a very good business while Williams fights to keep his business afloat. Ofcourse I forgot to use a good dose of your subjectivity when I made the comparison.


F1 is, and always has been, FW's business and there are few better than him in that business.

But there are better ones than him, and that's what I said, unlike someone else.

[Allyc85]

ffs is he still moaning about williams, why dosnt he concentrate on making that RB3 fast instead of going on about the past.

[jens]

Webber has a good right to be angry, because he expected clearly more before joining Williams than he actually got. So I'm not complaining about the ruth of his words - there indeed is some truth in them as well!

Hopefully he can keep his head calm and concentrate on improving RBR and won't be upset if results won't come as soon as he wants them to come.

[Tazio]

Not evidence of anything.

Mark did a 40 minute interview with me for a season preview piece for a Melbourne newspaper. neither of us actually had any idea it would end up on the fox website.

over the course of the interview, Mark had maybe five minutes of comments on Williams, mostly in comparative terms or as an overview. the sports editors wanted these pulled together into a williams-related article, even though the Williams had not tested when the interview was conducted.

the headline didn't reflect my intent, nor did it reflect mark's. he didn't slam williams at all.

Yes, all the quotes are his, but the angry tone portrayed by the headline is not. His expression and emotion about the team has always been one of disbelief that it could all have gone so wrong, rather than bitterness or anger.

this other website wasn't there, didn't have a transcript of the interview and illegally stole intellectual copyright without attribution. they certainly had no idea of the context of the interview, nor how mark felt about anything.

All I implied is that automoto's tone in an article was less sensational than that of fox's on the same subject matter! I submitted it as evidence that that two articles released at the same time on the same subject can give a vastly different perspective!
You seem to have completely missed my point. You my friend are bitter, and Idon't thik it becomes you!
Have you posted your interview on this forum?
If you haven't I think you should.
I'm not as clairvoyant as I used to be!
The article was the first one I ran across. That is why I submitted it as evidence!
Don't bag on me mister, as it appears that we agree that the Fox article was sensationalized.

[Mickey T]

I'm not bagging you, just pointing out that without the whole interview or even being involved in the conversation, this site would have no idea of whether they were or were not applying the correct context.

the real sensationalism with the fox story is the headline - and all the other f1 sites have taken that and gone stupid with it.

no, i'm not posting the whole interview (yet) because a few of the other stories from it have yet to run - and the paying customers come first, i'm afraid.

[Bagwan]

Not evidence of anything.

Mark did a 40 minute interview with me for a season preview piece for a Melbourne newspaper. neither of us actually had any idea it would end up on the fox website.

over the course of the interview, Mark had maybe five minutes of comments on Williams, mostly in comparative terms or as an overview. the sports editors wanted these pulled together into a williams-related article, even though the Williams had not tested when the interview was conducted.

the headline didn't reflect my intent, nor did it reflect mark's. he didn't slam williams at all.

Yes, all the quotes are his, but the angry tone portrayed by the headline is not. His expression and emotion about the team has always been one of disbelief that it could all have gone so wrong, rather than bitterness or anger.

this other website wasn't there, didn't have a transcript of the interview and illegally stole intellectual copyright without attribution. they certainly had no idea of the context of the interview, nor how mark felt about anything.

Thanks , Mickey , for giving us some insight into how the press , in general , can distort the truth to their liking .
This is the ultimate case where "link , please" would have fit , but Valve missed it . This is a direct link to the interviewer .

Have you had any theft like this happen before ?

[Mickey T]

Thanks , Mickey , for giving us some insight into how the press , in general , can distort the truth to their liking .
This is the ultimate case where "link , please" would have fit , but Valve missed it . This is a direct link to the interviewer .

Have you had any theft like this happen before ?

yep. it happens all the time.

straight plagiarism is more common since the web got big.

haven't had anybody just rip quotes off me before and pass them off (tacitly or otherwise) as a result of their own interviews, though.

if you look at the other sites, they quote the Herald-Sun newspaper (though one quotes the Sydney Morning Herald, which is wrong - wrong city, wrong newspaper group), which is how you are supposed to attribute such things.

[futuretiger9]

It looks like Webber is just letting off a bit of steam, and I don't think he's trying to be vindictive in any way. His commitment last season was impressive, and it is understandable that he became frustrated. Anyway, he's got his hands full this season, not only helping Red Bull to move forward, but also proving to the doubters that he has what it takes to become a top Grand Prix driver.

[Ian McC]

Not evidence of anything.

Mark did a 40 minute interview with me for a season preview piece for a Melbourne newspaper. neither of us actually had any idea it would end up on the fox website.

over the course of the interview, Mark had maybe five minutes of comments on Williams, mostly in comparative terms or as an overview. the sports editors wanted these pulled together into a williams-related article, even though the Williams had not tested when the interview was conducted.

the headline didn't reflect my intent, nor did it reflect mark's. he didn't slam williams at all.

Yes, all the quotes are his, but the angry tone portrayed by the headline is not. His expression and emotion about the team has always been one of disbelief that it could all have gone so wrong, rather than bitterness or anger.

this other website wasn't there, didn't have a transcript of the interview and illegally stole intellectual copyright without attribution. they certainly had no idea of the context of the interview, nor how mark felt about anything.

Thanks Mickey though to be honest it doesn't surprise me, something everyone should keep in mind when they read stuff in the press.

[Dazz9908]

I think Webber was stating what he thought obvious.
With Williams short of funds and a promise of a technical partnership with Toyota, Williams will take the back seat to Toyota, If the championship requires it.
Don't think he's being anything but factual about Williams, Remember he was asked he didn't just fire out this statement.
Frank and Patrick still think Webber is a great driver and would welcome him back if their circumstances change for the better.

[Gannex]

Not evidence of anything.

Mark . . .didn't slam williams at all.

Yes, all the quotes are his, but the angry tone portrayed by the headline is not. His expression and emotion about the team has always been one of disbelief that it could all have gone so wrong, rather than bitterness or anger.
I agree entirely. That's why I said earlier that Webber has only been saying things that Williams people are probably saying themselves. No one denies that it was a dreadful two years. Frank Williams has said it himself. So surely no one at Williams begrudges Webber pointing out the obvious -- that his time with the team was worse than disappointing.

I've seen no bitterness in Webber toward Williams, and the team, I think, have a certain admiration for their former driver; certainly no resentment or feelings of having been betrayed. Suggestions in the press to the contrary are nothing more than the fevered imaginings of bored headline writers if you ask me.

On the subject of Frank Williams's business skills, and whether they exceed Mateschitz's, I concede entirely, ioan, that Mateschitz is better at making money. But money-making for its own sake is not what I was talking about. What I was comparing were the abilities of the two men to keep the money flowing into a Formula 1 team, and to spend it wisely. I was comparing their skill levels in the business of Formula 1, not in business generally.

[Ari]

Hmmm... currently to me it seems as if the "Newey factor" is makin´ Red Bull consistently slow. Or do you really believe they´re sandbagging throughout every testing day so far?

Ummm. Theyre not running their 2007 Aero in testing till the end of the month... Bahrain. Anything that happens before then is just testing the other features of the car.

They likely have no care factor of times at present.

[Ari]

Not evidence of anything.

Mark did a 40 minute interview with me for a season preview piece for a Melbourne newspaper. neither of us actually had any idea it would end up on the fox website.

over the course of the interview, Mark had maybe five minutes of comments on Williams, mostly in comparative terms or as an overview. the sports editors wanted these pulled together into a williams-related article, even though the Williams had not tested when the interview was conducted.

the headline didn't reflect my intent, nor did it reflect mark's. he didn't slam williams at all.

Yes, all the quotes are his, but the angry tone portrayed by the headline is not. His expression and emotion about the team has always been one of disbelief that it could all have gone so wrong, rather than bitterness or anger.

this other website wasn't there, didn't have a transcript of the interview and illegally stole intellectual copyright without attribution. they certainly had no idea of the context of the interview, nor how mark felt about anything.


Well, there you go kids! Straight from the horses mouth!

Cheers Mickey!

[Ari]

no, i'm not posting the whole interview (yet) because a few of the other stories from it have yet to run - and the paying customers come first, i'm afraid.

....and understandably so.

Please post the interview as a thread when you can.

Cheers.

[ArrowsFA1]

...the headline didn't reflect my intent, nor did it reflect mark's. he didn't slam williams at all...
Thanks for clearing that up :up:

Don't distort reality just for the sake of nationality!
Nationality has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making.

What I was comparing were the abilities of the two men to keep the money flowing into a Formula 1 team, and to spend it wisely. I was comparing their skill levels in the business of Formula 1, not in business generally.
This is the point ioan. Red Bull have been a team, as opposed to a sponsor, for a mere 2 years. They've thrown an awful lot of money at what was Stewart/Jaguar and made a big impact. Good for them. However, we will see whether they have the commitment to maintain this level of finance and get results in the years to come. I very much doubt that they'll still be around for the 2043 season.

[ioan]

Nationality has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making.

Objectivity neither! :D

[ArrowsFA1]

:laugh: Always a pleasure ioan :p

Ah well, at least this thread has established Webber was not slamming Williams :cool:

[ShiftingGears]

Ahahah, Planet F1 have the title as "Webber Sticks The Knife In"

Guess it sells...

[ClarkFan]

Ahahah, Planet F1 have the title as "Webber Sticks The Knife In"

Guess it sells...

I believe that once you have comprehensively failed at all other forms of journalism, you go into writing headlines for F1 stories on websites.

:p

ClarkFan

[W8&C]

Ummm. Theyre not running their 2007 Aero in testing till the end of the month... Bahrain. Anything that happens before then is just testing the other features of the car.

They likely have no care factor of times at present.
Looking at todays results you (and RJL25) could be perfectly right. But honestly: I still don´t believe it (o.k., "believe" really isn´t a strong argument here...).

[Ari]

Looking at todays results you (and RJL25) could be perfectly right. But honestly: I still don´t believe it (o.k., "believe" really isn´t a strong argument here...).

hehehe. Fact remains though that it's all just speculation till Bahrain,.... or even Round 1! :p

[RJL25]

there's nothing really to believe at this point in the season! You cant trust what ANY of the teams are doing! But given RBR's sudden burst of pace, im pretty confident that Ari and i will be proven correct come the bahrain test

i personally think tho that the RB3 is actually a bit of a jet, but an unreliable one (typical newey car really) and because of that they have had limited running and havent really been able to get the cars performance cranking. Today was the first time they got some sustained running on the car and look out their fastest! hmmm...