Hamilton stripped of third place

[woody2goody]

That would be stupider than Fred blackmailing Ron.
If Mclaren were to release Hamilton. He would just sign with another team!
Maybe one that will give him a chance to repeat :p :

I was almost about to say Renault there he goes, but then I remembered who his teammate would be if they sacked Piquet!

Hate to say it but I doubt any team would sack a driver apart from Renault even if it was for Hamilton.

I'll be honest mate, you're just looking for a scapegoat as a part excuse for the idiocy and incompetence of McLaren and the deceptive nature of Lewis Hamilton. That isn't cool.

Now stop it. Two excellent posts in a day is just been greedy!

[Tazio]

Hate to say it but I doubt any team would sack a driver apart from Renault even if it was for Hamilton.I would have to take a look at contracts and salaries.
I don't want to piss anyone off, and this is just an imaginary scenario.
But I think that Red Bull or less likely BMW would pay off the salaries of Nick
or Mark in order to have a better shot at the wcc.
JMH speculative O ;)

[woody2goody]

You don't get it do you? Race Control had more important things to do than deal with this incident and deliver a ruling that should have been blatantly obvious to anyone as it was obvious to Brundle as he was commentating.

The stewards didn't hold a gun to Lewis' head and force him to lie! He did that all by himself with perhaps some help from the team.

I'll be honest mate, you're just looking for a scapegoat as a part excuse for the idiocy and incompetence of McLaren and the deceptive nature of Lewis Hamilton. That isn't cool.

Not sure I agree with 'deceptive nature'...

Do you think Tamburello, in all seriousness, that there's a possibility of Hamilton's job being threatened, or not?

I doubt it. I fear that he had no problem going along with it. He had no problem breaking his word with Alonso in Hungary 07, so he has form for being willing to stoop low.

Hamilton has been raised in the Mclaren environment. That environment is apparently endemically dishonest and corrupt. I suspect the only thing they are sorry about is being caught again.

F1 doesn't need this. It's a cancer and should be cut out.

[ioan]

This whole episode makes me really wonder about Hamiltons character!

He ain't got any, he's a 100% McLaren product.
He also doesn't need any character, Ron will give him the right one according to the situations. ;)

Not sure I agree with 'deceptive nature'...

Well, he has just misled the stewards, so the cap fits.

[woody2goody]

I would have to take a look at contracts and salaries.
I don't want to piss anyone off, and this is just an imaginary scenario.
But I think that Red Bull or less likely BMW would pay off the salaries of Nick
or Mark in order to have a better shot at the wcc.
JMH speculative O ;)

If I was to be honest it would probably be Sutil or Bourdais, even though I like Le Seb.

If not, he'd end up driving for that garbled mess known as USAGPF1TEAM which it will end up no doubt alongside Danica Patrick lol... :D

No offence against the US mind you...

[woody2goody]

He ain't got any, he's a 100% McLaren product.
He also doesn't need any character, Ron will give him the right one according to the situations. ;)

Sadly, McLaren don't have a great track record of drivers with a great personality...

I mean, they aren't exactly the life of the pitlane as a team in general are they?

[ioan]

...but I do like Lewis, Heikki and Pedro (de la Rosa) who are the only positive aspects of that organisation.

I think you can make a cross on Lewis too with this occasion.

[Tazio]

No offence against the US mind you...
No offence taken
I had a choice of watching the GP on a 27" tv Screen(on speetv) or a 3"x5" window on BBC) on my computer!
After listening to Windsor's shameless self promotion,
which is only possible because of Speedtv's undisclosed financial connection (and colusion)with USGPE.
Then Steve Varsha's admission that they were going to talk about that subject untill I wanted to puke, the choice was easy
auntie beeb ;)

[ioan]

You should be steamed up about too. It shows that the team you defended are liars.

You should direct your anger at those who lied, not those who don't have a procedure to prevent people from lying!

Exactly.

[ioan]

I'll be honest mate, you're just looking for a scapegoat as a part excuse for the idiocy and incompetence of McLaren and the deceptive nature of Lewis Hamilton. That isn't cool.

I have the same impression.

[ioan]

Sadly, McLaren don't have a great track record of drivers with a great personality...

I mean, they aren't exactly the life of the pitlane as a team in general are they?

Well they are rather the low-life of the pit lane given their shenanigans over the last couple of seasons.

[ArrowsFA1]

Race Control had more important things to do than deal with this incident...
Given that they are Race Control (by the tv pictures it's much more than just Charlie in the booth) and were repeatedly asked for assistance with this issue it is difficult to see what prevented them from either giving a ruling, or replying that they could not give a ruling.

The stewards didn't hold a gun to Lewis' head and force him to lie!
No, absolutely right. Nor did they listen to the team radio recordings that are available to them at all times before judging the issue.

I'll be honest mate, you're just looking for a scapegoat as a part excuse for the idiocy and incompetence of McLaren and the deceptive nature of Lewis Hamilton. That isn't cool.
Not a scapegoat. An explaination.

Given that everyone knows team radios are monitored and used it seems extraordinary that Dave Ryan and Lewis Hamilton went into the hearing and lied. McLaren have said they assumed the stewards had heard their radio converstation before questioning them so why lie? They knew the evidence would confirm or deny whatever they said so it wasn't a case of 'trying to get away with it'.

For that reason I raise the question whether McLaren genuinly felt it was not an instruction to pass, but a necessity out of fear of being penalised themselves.

Taking one line out of a radio conversation without having details of what questions they were asked in the hearing (we have the team radio transcript but not the hearing transcript) is undoubtedly damning, but I think the whole thing needs to be looked at alongside the whole incident, the team radio, the lack of response from Race Control and the hearing itself.

[ioan]

Not a scapegoat. An explaination.

In this case I suggest you ask McLaren and Lewis, cause no one else knows why they lied.

[ArrowsFA1]

In this case I suggest you ask McLaren and Lewis, cause no one else knows why they lied.
Well I've just discussed it with Riccardo Patrese but unfortunately I don't have the number of anyone at McLaren :p

[Tazio]

Given that they are Race Control (by the tv pictures it's much more than just Charlie in the booth) and were repeatedly asked for assistance with this issue it is difficult to see what prevented them from either giving a ruling, or replying that they could not give a ruling.

No, absolutely right. Nor did they listen to the team radio recordings that are available to them at all times before judging the issue.

Not a scapegoat. An explaination.

Given that everyone knows team radios are monitored and used it seems extraordinary that Dave Ryan and Lewis Hamilton went into the hearing and lied. McLaren have said they assumed the stewards had heard their radio converstation before questioning them so why lie? They knew the evidence would confirm or deny whatever they said so it wasn't a case of 'trying to get away with it'.

For that reason I raise the question whether McLaren genuinly felt it was not an instruction to pass, but a necessity out of fear of being penalised themselves.

Taking one line out of a radio conversation without having details of what questions they were asked in the hearing (we have the team radio transcript but not the hearing transcript) is undoubtedly damning, but I think the whole thing needs to be looked at alongside the whole incident, the team radio, the lack of response from Race Control and the hearing itself.This all makes for a scenario that should be definitive as to why
McLaren couldn't think they would be able to contravene what was said on the radio!
It, however begs a perplexing question to me.
Why did it take Speed TV dropping a dime on McLaren after Toyota announced they were dropping the appeal,
to re-examine the appeal? Either the stewards are incredibly lazy, gullible and incompetent,
or expect the concerned parties to be completely forthright, gentlemanly, forthright, and honest,
which is just a little naive

[Malbec]

Given that everyone knows team radios are monitored and used it seems extraordinary that Dave Ryan and Lewis Hamilton went into the hearing and lied. McLaren have said they assumed the stewards had heard their radio converstation before questioning them so why lie? They knew the evidence would confirm or deny whatever they said so it wasn't a case of 'trying to get away with it'.

For that reason I raise the question whether McLaren genuinly felt it was not an instruction to pass, but a necessity out of fear of being penalised themselves.

Taking one line out of a radio conversation without having details of what questions they were asked in the hearing (we have the team radio transcript but not the hearing transcript) is undoubtedly damning, but I think the whole thing needs to be looked at alongside the whole incident, the team radio, the lack of response from Race Control and the hearing itself.

Exactly, the whole thing smacks of a team and driver not sure what the right thing to do is and making a rush decision with a lack of guidance from race control. The question is, did McLaren have time to review exactly what they said on the radio, because I suspect that under pressure neither Lewis nor the team may have remembered exactly what had been said.

Its a sad aspect of modern life that there is a need to blame for everything, that people seem unable to accept that mistakes are made and feel the need to read malicious intent into everything.

[Sonic]

WOT? I go away for a few hours and all hell breaks loose. This does nothing but harm F1.

[Malbec]

Either the stewards are incredibly lazy, gullible and incompetent,

I believe the race stewards are indeed incompetent and ignorant of racing, in fact you do not need to have attended a single race to be one, although the chief steward is I believe quite experienced in racing matters. The other two are often local FIA appointees and racing experience is not required to be an FIA delegate.

That explains the decision made on Vettel in Melbourne and Bourdais at Fuji last year where he was penalised for exitting the pits alongside Massa.

[Daniel]

Exactly, the whole thing smacks of a team and driver not sure what the right thing to do is and making a rush decision with a lack of guidance from race control. The question is, did McLaren have time to review exactly what they said on the radio, because I suspect that under pressure neither Lewis nor the team may have remembered exactly what had been said.

Its a sad aspect of modern life that there is a need to blame for everything, that people seem unable to accept that mistakes are made and feel the need to read malicious intent into everything.
I'm sorry but that's the biggest load of horse doo-doos I've ever seen.

[Malbec]

I'm sorry but that's the biggest load of horse doo-doos I've ever seen.

So it was all deliberately done then, with McLaren planning it all across the radio, knowing that those transmissions would later be checked by the FIA?

Right.....

Whilst I'm quite enjoying the lack of pace coming from the McLaren boys, I can see a plain error when I see one, especially when the decision they made was in a grey area in the rules, ie passing a car thats only temporarily gone off the track under a safety car.

Compare that with the 'mistake' Toyota made by making and using a rear wing that clearly broke the rules regarding flexibility, and the degree of punishment they received.

[woody2goody]

No offence taken
I had a choice of watching the GP on a 27" tv Screen(on speetv) or a 3"x5" window on BBC) on my computer!
After listening to Windsor's shameless self promotion,
which is only possible because of Speedtv's undisclosed financial connection (and colusion)with USGPE.
Then Steve Varsha's admission that they were going to talk about that subject untill I wanted to puke, the choice was easy
auntie beeb ;)

Should have kept the Speed picture on you big screen with the BBC commentary from your computer :)

[ioan]

Exactly, the whole thing smacks of a team and driver not sure what the right thing to do is and making a rush decision with a lack of guidance from race control. The question is, did McLaren have time to review exactly what they said on the radio, because I suspect that under pressure neither Lewis nor the team may have remembered exactly what had been said.

Its a sad aspect of modern life that there is a need to blame for everything, that people seem unable to accept that mistakes are made and feel the need to read malicious intent into everything.

:laugh: :laugh: :rotflmao:

So the lie was just a mistake?!

:rotflmao:

[Malbec]

:laugh: :laugh: :rotflmao:

So the lie was just a mistake?!

:rotflmao:

Possibly. The fact that they knew that the FIA would be able to check the radio transmissions would point to their claims about orders being an error rather than a lie.

[TL]

How does FIA know 100% sure it was donne deliberately ? did they put Hamilton on a lie detector ? Or did he effectively admitted he lied on purpose ?

[N. Jones]

This is insane. They lied, they were punished. We have heard the radio transcript. What more is there to say?

[Daniel]

Possibly. The fact that they knew that the FIA would be able to check the radio transmissions would point to their claims about orders being an error rather than a lie.
OK lets say it was an error. Why lie about it then? :mark:

[Daniel]

This is insane. They lied, they were punished. We have heard the radio transcript. What more is there to say?
Apparently a lot if you've got an interest in blowing smoke up Lewis' sweaty bumcrack.

[Tazio]

How does FIA know 100% sure it was donne deliberately ? did they put Hamilton on a lie detector ? Or did he effectively admitted he lied on purpose ?
a. Immediately after the race and before Lewis Hamilton attended the Stewards Meeting he gave an interview to the Media where he clearly stated that the Team had told him to let Trulli pass.

http://www.forumula1.net/2009/f1/f1-news/the-full-fia-statement-on-the-overtake-gate-affair/
Then he went into the stewards meeting and said the oppisite!
Unless LH suffers from "Dissociative Identity Disorder" (multiple personalities)
that is a lie!

[dj_bytedisaster]

he lied, no doubt about that, too bad. another brilliant talent wasted...

[VkmSpouge]

Lewis Hamilton proving to be his own worst enemy. He should not have lied to the race stewards, he would have got an excellent 4th place and now he quite rightly has nothing.

[TL]

a. Immediately after the race and before Lewis Hamilton attended the Stewards Meeting he gave an interview to the Media where he clearly stated that the Team had told him to let Trulli pass.

http://www.forumula1.net/2009/f1/f1-news/the-full-fia-statement-on-the-overtake-gate-affair/
Then he went into the stewards meeting and said the oppisite!
Unless LH suffers from "Dissociative Identity Disorder" (multiple personalities)
that is a lie!

if it is like Fia says it went...both Lewis and McL must be really dumb ! But than...all this could have been avoided when FIA would have waited for the radio conversations before making any desicions and penalise Jarno right away.....That way they would have heard Lewis got asked to let Jarno true..and they could have kept the result as it was..Jarno 3 - Lewis 4...everyone happy no ?

[Tazio]

Here is the latest statement from the FIA

McLaren did lie, say FIA

By Hugh Podmore on Thursday, April 2, 2009
Filed Under: F1 News, McLaren
McLaren and Lewis Hamilton did lie to the stewards at the post-race meeting, the FIA insisted in its official statement this evening. This allegation contradicts McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh’s assertion this afternoon that there were no untruths in that hearing. The FIA say that Lewis Hamilton and Dave Ryan, the two McLaren employees who attended the stewards meeting, knowingly lied to them.

The key part of the FIA statement reads:

”During the hearing, held approximately one hour after the end of the race, the Stewards and the Race Director questioned Lewis Hamilton and his Team Manager David Ryan specifically about whether there had been an instruction given to Hamilton to allow Trulli to overtake.

Both the driver and the Team Manager stated that no such instruction had been given. The Race Director specifically asked Hamilton whether he had consciously allowed Trulli to overtake. Hamilton insisted that he had not done so.”

It goes on to say:

”a. Immediately after the race and before Lewis Hamilton attended the Stewards Meeting he gave an interview to the Media where he clearly stated that the Team had told him to let Trulli pass.

b. Furthermore, the radio exchanges between the driver and the Team contain two explicit orders from the Team to let the Toyota pass.”

Such a strongly worded statement from the FIA contradicted team principal Martin Whitmarsh’s earlier assertion.

”There was no lie in that hearing,” Whitmarsh is quoted by autosport.com as saying. His story was that McLaren had withheld radio evidence.

Many observers remain bemused by Hamilton and Ryan’s decision to omit the truth when speaking to the stewards. This decision would have been extremely foolhardy, having told the media the real story first, and knowing as they must have done that all radio communications are publicly available this season.



LIAR V V V V V V V V
http://polepositionweb.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/wirmarsh393.jpg

[Tazio]

if it is like Fia says it went...both Lewis and McL must be really dumb ! But than...all this could have been avoided when FIA would have waited for the radio conversations before making any desicions and penalise Jarno right away.....That way they would have heard Lewis got asked to let Jarno true..and they could have kept the result as it was..Jarno 3 - Lewis 4...everyone happy no ?Maybe!!
But it doesn't make LH, and MW any less of Liars :s mokin:

[jens]

Yess-yess, Trulli's P3 has been reinstated - at least there is some justice in the world. Miracles do happen! Wuohooo, wuhooo!!! :bounce: For me Jarno was always going to be 3rd/4th man of the Oz GP, no matter what the end results showed. Thankfully I don't need to start following an alternative points standings. :p :

Hamilton - shame that the result of his great drive in Australia has been lost in such way. But maybe this lesson will teach something valuable to this young man in the area of sportsmanship. DQ from the season, like some have speculated would be way too harsh though and wouldn't work at all anyway - LH is too popular not to race in F1.

But all in all the ultimate conclusion of all this again is that the F1 Stewards are extremely incompetent. I'm just wondering, when will FIA do anything about it if so many are suffering from it (also in 08, when the most notable sufferers were Hamilton and Bourdais). If it is possible to basically disqualify someone just by giving false information by word of mouth, then sorry - what are we talking about? It looks like we are dealing with an Inquisition Court. :s Hello, we are in 21st century?!

[Bagwan]

Maybe!!
But it doesn't make LH, and MW any less of Liars :s mokin:

Can we make some distinction between the MW of Martin Whitmarsh and the MW of Mark Webber ?

Webber doesn't lie as far as I know .

It boggles my mind that Whitmarsh came out today after the hearing and said they didn't lie .
Had he come out with sorry , I think it may have ended there .

As it is , though , unrepentant , I fear his team now heads for the gallows .

[mstillhere]

Spot on. Honestly McLaren are becoming as bad as Ferrari with regards to winning at all costs...

They are not becoming, they already are

[jens]

I'm surprised we haven't had any conspiracy theories yet! Let me create one. :p : McLaren knew the rules perfectly, but asked Lewis to let Jarno repass him, because they feared Toyota's challenge in the WCC fight and wanted to "organize" a penalty for Trulli. 6-5 advantage in WCC sounds better than 6-9 loss points-wise, doesn't it? :p :

Well, the conspiracy theory I for fun created a few days ago wasn't actually too far off. :p : In April 1 I thought about creating a thread about Hamilton's DQ's in Australian GP as a joke. Well... sometimes jokes come true. :D

[N. Jones]

Apparently a lot if you've got an interest in blowing smoke up Lewis' sweaty bumcrack.

:laugh:

[WRCfan]

Heard about this last night. Crazy how a motorsport has become 'Days of our lives' and has such a trivial bunch of bullsh!t.

The FIA is EVERYTHING but what they are meant to be.

Five grand In Appreciation

Five Interesting Associates

Five hours In Action

Fees Increase Anytime

Fines In Abundance

Ferrari International Aid

Federation of International Arrogance

so Funny It's A joke

[THE_LIBERATOR]

Can we now hold stewards enquiries in front of a camera please? Because it would be a lot easy to accept this if we had footage of the "lie" too. It would put pressure on the stewards to justify themselves & pressure on the drivers to be honest.

I support Lewis, but if he lied to the enquiry he should get either a race ban or a championship disqualification.

[ioan]

If it is possible to basically disqualify someone just by giving false information by word of mouth, then sorry - what are we talking about? It looks like we are dealing with an Inquisition Court. :s Hello, we are in 21st century?!

Try giving false information to a court of justice and you'll be disqualified from your normal life for some time too.

Do you think that lying should be the norm in the 21st century?! :rolleyes:

[ioan]

They are not becoming, they already are

They are ... much worse!

[Bagwan]

Yess-yess, Trulli's P3 has been reinstated - at least there is some justice in the world. Miracles do happen! Wuohooo, wuhooo!!! :bounce: For me Jarno was always going to be 3rd/4th man of the Oz GP, no matter what the end results showed. Thankfully I don't need to start following an alternative points standings. :p :

Hamilton - shame that the result of his great drive in Australia has been lost in such way. But maybe this lesson will teach something valuable to this young man in the area of sportsmanship. DQ from the season, like some have speculated would be way too harsh though and wouldn't work at all anyway - LH is too popular not to race in F1.

But all in all the ultimate conclusion of all this again is that the F1 Stewards are extremely incompetent. I'm just wondering, when will FIA do anything about it if so many are suffering from it (also in 08, when the most notable sufferers were Hamilton and Bourdais). If it is possible to basically disqualify someone just by giving false information by word of mouth, then sorry - what are we talking about? It looks like we are dealing with an Inquisition Court. :s Hello, we are in 21st century?!

But , Jens , your boy , Jarno only lost his place because his story did not match Hamilton's .
At the time , it looked really straight forward , as Jarno had passed under the safety car , and both Hamilton and he had said so , so it was cut and dried .
They had asked the appropriate questions ; if he slowed , and if he was instructed to do so .
The only reason to ask those 2 questions would be to determine if Jarno's story that he slowed was true .
That Hamilton carried his indignant tone from one interview into the next seems rather evident . He told SPEED that he really should have come 3rd .
I imagine he told the stewards the same .

I was really looking forward to this season as we were about to see how Lewis the WDC was to handle an under-performing car .
Until after the end , it was all coming together .

Now we will be potentially denied that , as they seem still in denial .

I can't blame the FIA or the stewards for this one .
Had McLaren and Lewis been honest about it , they would have lost only one they had already given up , but instead , they look like going down even harder .
It was mayhem , the same mayhem that had Mac not knowing what to do , that slowed the response . Safety takes precedence , and there had just been an accident elsewhere , and one car was circling the track with a wheel hanging off it .
Mac decided it was prudent to let Jarno by . that was an innocent mistake , but a mistake nonetheless . It was a mistake no more or less serious to Jarno's off-track experience in the points race , as the position was , in both cases , relinquished .

You see , this was an attempt to regain the spot lost during the safety car .

The thing , I'm sure you must have noticed , is the value of a cagey veteran like Jarno in that seat , as , it was only Trulli's experience that put him in the know that , firstly , he was going to have to hold station behind Lewis , having gone off , and secondly , that he was legally able to pass if Lewis pulled to the side and slowed .

Your man's story hasn't changed , and he hasn't lied about a thing .

They didn't believe him before and now they do .

I like Jarno , and couldn't believe he would lie .

Justice was done . This is a sign that they work to make things right .
Today is a day to laud the efforts , rather than slag the stewards .
This was an unappealable penalty , remember .
They did get it right in the end , and if anyone can see that , it should be you .

[CNR]

i think there would have been some one in the Race Director’s Box taking all correspondence from the teams so how could you ask this question (Trulli run wide and lew-ser over took him what should we do about it) to someone in the Race Director's box then lie about it.

[woody2goody]

Trulli's one of the most honest men on the grid, one of the most experienced, and he knows the rules like the back of his hand, and he was a GPDA director I'm sure for a few years.

[gloomyDAY]

kRExJGS7dz0

I wish Hammy kept his bloody mouth shut!

Podium just got flushed down the toilet.

[Powered by Cosworth]

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but I like the way the FIA have handled this, and hope to hear more radio transmissions published on the internet after future punishments have been handed out.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/f1releases/2009/Pages/f1_stewards_decision.aspx

[Valve Bounce]

Well, the video clearly shows Jarno off the track and Lewis Hamilton was correct in passing him. Jarno was that far off the track that this should have been a non issue.

And if McLaren told Lewis to let Jarno past and he did, then that should have been the end of it.

I really can't understand what Lewis and Ryan were trying to prove.

[Valve Bounce]

Yess-yess, Trulli's P3 has been reinstated - at least there is some justice in the world. Miracles do happen! Wuohooo, wuhooo!!! :bounce: For me Jarno was always going to be 3rd/4th man of the Oz GP, no matter what the end results showed. Thankfully I don't need to start following an alternative points standings. :p :



Listen jens, I would wuohooo too loud just yet - we still have DiffuserGate to come. :eek:

[Tazio]

Listen jens, I wouldn't wuohooo too loud just yet - we still have DiffuserGate to come. :eek:
Yea' babe! The Bandit diffusers are not out of the woods yet! :p :

[rabf1]

And they continue to lie and claim that they didnt tell a lie!

This is only going to make it worse. Once they got caught they should have either just said "we are not going to comment any further" but compulsive liars and cheaters just cant help themselves. I really hope that they make an example of these cheaters.

[Tazio]

Come on into the chat room boys I have the practice FP1 link for non UK IP's
(you bunch of fags) ;) http://hyena-hosting.com/chat/phpMyChat.php3

[ShiftingGears]

Nice that Trulli got reinstated as well. Justice has been served.

[aryan]

The Stewards did everything right here. Kudos to them. With this video, and the McLaren transmission, it is pretty crystal clear what has happened. In order to gain 1 additional point, McLaren lied, and now they will rightfully be stripped of their 5 points for this.

Trulli proved again that he is one of the few honest drivers on the paddock. Nice to see honesty rewarded for once.

This officially ends my relationship as a supporter of McLaren Mercedes and Mr. Lewis Hamilton.

Let that be on the record.

[markabilly]

Try giving false information to a court of justice and you'll be disqualified .

Do you think that lying should be the norm in the 21st century?! :rolleyes:
Of course, they just forgot to serve the kool aid.....how strange, for nearly three years, the "reality" of f1 is far stranger and more irrational than anything I could make up....

[markabilly]

Yea' babe! The Bandit diffusers are not out of the woods yet! :p :

What were you saying about truth stranger than fiction file......

[PSfan]

Well, its good that the FIA eventually came around and got this thing fixed. However, I personally think this has exposed yet another deficiency in the rule book concerning penalties in the final stages of a race. Clearly a 25s penalty added to a drivers time at the end of a race finishing under a safety car is alot harsher then had the race ran under green, I hope the FIA recognise this, and adjust the rules to include a provision for this very scenario, perhaps 2 or more place demotion instead?

Also, if the FIA plan on any additional penalties harsher then fines to LH or MacLeran, they better do it before the end of FP2 or before the start of FP3 tomorrow...

[Tazio]

Lewis Hamilton's woeful week continued this morning when the world champion was fined by the FIA for speeding in the pits during the first practice session today for the Malaysian Grand Prix.

But the Englishman once again incurred the wrath of the FIA for exceeding the pit lane speed limit by going at 65.3 km/h, earning a Euro 1,200 fine :dozey:

http://www.sportinglife.com/others/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=others/09/04/03/AUTO_Malaysian_Hamilton.html

[ioan]

Also, if the FIA plan on any additional penalties harsher then fines to LH or MacLeran, they better do it before the end of FP2 or before the start of FP3 tomorrow...

That won't be easy cause it will again be the WMSC to decide what happens.

[ioan]

This officially ends my relationship as a supporter of McLaren Mercedes and Mr. Lewis Hamilton.

Let that be on the record.

We'll keep that in mind! ;)

[F1boat]

That won't be easy cause it will again be the WMSC to decide what happens.

Of course... these are like a Congress of a Communist Party - slow and menacing, full with malicious old men.

[PSfan]

Lewis Hamilton's woeful week continued this morning when the world champion was fined by the FIA for speeding in the pits during the first practice session today for the Malaysian Grand Prix.

But the Englishman once again incurred the wrath of the FIA for exceeding the pit lane speed limit by going at 65.3 km/h, earning a Euro 1,200 fine :dozey:

http://www.sportinglife.com/others/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=others/09/04/03/AUTO_Malaysian_Hamilton.html

Poor kids having a rough weekend...

That reminds me, perhaps having his life dictated from say... age 16 stunted his growth in some areas? In his rookie season he use to come off as so mature in his interviews, however, maybe he might not be nearly as mature in others?

Anyway, has anyone posted a vid of the Trulli re-pass under the safety car?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-7GdrZpV3o

[ioan]

Of course... these are like a Congress of a Communist Party - slow and menacing, full with malicious old men.

:rolleyes:

[Dave B]

BBC Five Live are reporting that McLaren team manager Dave Ryan may have fallen on his sword.

[wmcot]

I would think in those situations the bookies have a cut off time and they pay out on the result as it stood at that time, and changes to the result later will not result in a changed payout.

Nah, they just go break your kneecaps! :)

[wmcot]

Actually, Bernie may have been closer to the right idea with his "medal" thing. This does remind me of the Olympics where an athlete is occasionally stripped of his medal when an illegal substance has been found. That happens long after the podium ceremony, too.

While I would like to see decisions made more quickly, I have to admit that the governing body do sometimes get things right.

The sad thing is that Lewis felt the need to be "economical with the truth" for a single point - the difference between 3rd and 4th.

[christophulus]

Delighted that they've released the radio transcripts and recordings - seems to be the right decision. Although I know for a fact Hamilton had an onboard camera so releasing the footage from that would be nice please!

[christophulus]

Oh, and the Daily Mail have a very fair, unbiased view that I'm sure some members might agree with :\

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-1166766/Lewis-liar-World-champion-accused-cheating-Australia-hit-speeding-fine-Malaysia.html

[Tazio]

In his rookie season he use to come off as so mature in his interviews, however, maybe he might not be nearly as mature in others?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-7GdrZpV3o
I made a similar comment when someone on the forum stated last year that if he is this mature now, just think how much more he will be in a few years!

I said something to the affect of He may already have peaked and be burnt out by then ,and out of the sport well before he hits 30.
Who knows the whole season is upside down :mark:

[Big Ben]

What shocks me is how stupid they can be. How did they think they were going to get away with this? And what was the purpose of all this? 1 point?If it's something, it's stupid.... then pathetic... and after that the rest of them.

[Ranger]

Ron Dennis wouldn't have been so blatantly stupid.

Not a good start, Martin.

[PolePosition_1]

Ron Dennis wouldn't have been so blatantly stupid.

Not a good start, Martin.

Martin has suspended sporting director and has confirmed that they acted without senior management consultation.

I don't really see how its Martin's fault?

Ok, granted he's the boss, buck stops with him at end of the day, but criticising him for something totally beyond his control seems harsh.

Though this is the second time that McLaren have been caught out in 3 years due to team members not consulting senior management. So you do have to look into communication within the team, as you'd have to presume in both the spy scandal and this, with senior management consultation both wouldn't have come as far.

What I find interesting is the FIA not ruling out further sanctions as its such a serious offence, when Schumacher was found to have lied in Monaco 2006, and fair enough, he got put to back of grid, but that was it, no further risk of further sanctions etc.

[Daika]

Never heard of Dave Ryan untill today. Can we safely conclude that Dave Ryan won the Championship in 2008 and not Hamilton? afterall it appears that Hamiltom is just a puppet on strings with no mind of his own to make decisions.

[Dave B]

For what it's worth, Hamilton has issued a full apology:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74202

He also states that he was "instructed and misled" by Dave Ryan.

[ArrowsFA1]

For what it's worth, Hamilton has issued a full apology.
It's the right thing to do, but it probably won't mean much in the current environment.

[SGWilko]

For what it's worth, Hamilton has issued a full apology:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74202

He also states that he was "instructed and misled" by Dave Ryan.

Christ, it took long enough, but finally, a sensible post amongst pages of bile and hatred. Thanks Dave.

So, Lewis was doing as he was told.

Dave Ryan, acting for McLaren (albeit on his own) has been very foolish.

Story ends here for me.

[Dave B]

There's a Q&A with Lewis here, basically a transcript of his hurriedly put together press conference:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74203

It does seem quite simple on the face of it: Hamilton cocked up on track, Ryan told him to lie, Hamilton complied, FIA caught them out, Ryan got suspended. That should indeed be the end of the story, but I'm sure it will rumble on and spoil what should be a good racing weekend.

[PolePosition_1]

Never heard of Dave Ryan untill today. Can we safely conclude that Dave Ryan won the Championship in 2008 and not Hamilton? afterall it appears that Hamiltom is just a puppet on strings with no mind of his own to make decisions.


No we cannot. But Hamilton is an employee of McLaren, and therefore like most, follows instructions from a senior manager.

[Daika]

No we cannot. But Hamilton is an employee of McLaren, and therefore like most, follows instructions from a senior manager.

So the senior manager won it not Hamilton? My point is: it is to easy just to blame Dave Ryan. The only person who was involved in the racing and giving interviews is Hamilton. He drove the car, gave the interviews, was questions by the stewards. If any one should be suspended then is surely would be Hamilton.

[Dave B]

Hamilton's statement was filmed by the FOM, so it will be interesting to see his body language. By all accounts he sounded sincere and genuine in his apologies.

I think what we've seen is that Lewis is far from the finished article just yet. Brilliant at times on the track, but still a little naïve when it comes to dealing with all the off-track stuff.

[markabilly]

Christ, it took long enough, but finally, a sensible post amongst pages of bile and hatred. Thanks Dave.

So, Lewis was doing as he was told.

Dave Ryan, acting for McLaren (albeit on his own) has been very foolish.

Story ends here for me.

"albeit on his own" also known as "fall guy"

And as one of the Mac worshippers, of course the story would end there...

[Triumph]

What I find interesting is the FIA not ruling out further sanctions as its such a serious offence, when Schumacher was found to have lied in Monaco 2006, and fair enough, he got put to back of grid, but that was it, no further risk of further sanctions etc.

It's so that the FIA give themselves the option to further impede Hamilton's success when he gets into another championship-winning position.

Last year they cocked it up spectacularly and didn't manipulate things enough to stop him winning, so this year they have got started on him early, just to cover themselves.

The difference between the Schumacher 2006 and Hamilton 2009 situations is that Hamilton isn't driving one of the FIA's cars, so he's stuffed. ;-)

[Bagwan]

You guys seem just as willing as Whitmarsh , to let Ryan fall on the sword .

Whitmarsh has lied .
Ryan has lied .
Lewis has lied .

Since it would be , and was , stupid in all 3 cases , we must ask why .

I believe it was the SPEED interview .
If neither Whitmarsh , nor Ryan knew Lewis had spoken to the cameras , they might be tempted to lie to regain the place .
At that point , they might not have expected more than a reversal of positions with Jarno , due to the previous spin .

This does not excuse the lies , but might go a little farther to explain , and make them look a little less evil .

But , if it does explain things , then the mistake is down to Lewis , not the man who fell on the sword .

[PolePosition_1]

So the senior manager won it not Hamilton? My point is: it is to easy just to blame Dave Ryan. The only person who was involved in the racing and giving interviews is Hamilton. He drove the car, gave the interviews, was questions by the stewards. If any one should be suspended then is surely would be Hamilton.

No. Hamilton won it.

In same way say you work for a company, and you make a sale, you made the sale. But you still follow instructions from management.

Both Dave Ryan AND Hamilton were questioned by the Stewards. And Hamilton was briefed on what to say.

Both at fault here without doubt, but the senior of the two, in this case Dave took the lead in what happened, and considering they were penalised for misleading the Stewards, and Ryan is the one who organised this.

It does seem harsh to blame only Hamilton and not Ryan - as you seem to be doing.

[Valve Bounce]

The two situations are not the same. With Ryan and Lewis both lying to the stewards, the intent was to rob Jarno of his podium and points after the race.

It's the right thing to do, but it probably won't mean much in the current environment.

Nor should it mean much. Apologising does not excuse what he did. Not once in that apology does he mention regret towards Jarno. It's not a real apology, it's just another Mclaren lie.

Only a lengthy ban will teach him and Mclaren.

[ArrowsFA1]

... make them look a little less evil.
Evil? :laugh: A bit of perspective wouldn't go amiss here.

Josef Fritzl is evil.

[PolePosition_1]

You guys seem just as willing as Whitmarsh , to let Ryan fall on the sword .

Whitmarsh has lied .
Ryan has lied .
Lewis has lied .

Since it would be , and was , stupid in all 3 cases , we must ask why .

I believe it was the SPEED interview .
If neither Whitmarsh , nor Ryan knew Lewis had spoken to the cameras , they might be tempted to lie to regain the place .
At that point , they might not have expected more than a reversal of positions with Jarno , due to the previous spin .

This does not excuse the lies , but might go a little farther to explain , and make them look a little less evil .

But , if it does explain things , then the mistake is down to Lewis , not the man who fell on the sword .

When did Whitmarsh lie?

I can totally see why Ryan has been thrown on the sword. He told Hamilton to lie to the Stewards, without any consultation to senior management, who presumably would have not let it happen.

From what I've heard Ryan is a top man, been at McLaren since 1974 starting out as a mechanic and working his way up, so its a shame that in the media circus we live in today, a good man looks likely to lose his career over a mistake like this.

Whilst Whitmarsh must take resonponsibility, as once again it seems communication within McLaren staff and management is missing, he can't exactly be reasonably held responsible for actions beyond his control. The majority of faults lie with Ryan.

[TL]

The two situations are not the same. With Ryan and Lewis both lying to the stewards, the intent was to rob Jarno of his podium and points after the race.

thought in first place it was the stewards who robbed Jarno of his podium..penalising him without knowing all the facts ?

It does seem quite simple on the face of it: Hamilton cocked up on track, Ryan told him to lie, Hamilton complied, FIA caught them out, Ryan got suspended. That should indeed be the end of the story, but I'm sure it will rumble on and spoil what should be a good racing weekend.

You may be happy with a Mclaren whitewash, but liars should be treated with no respect.

Mclaren lied. They are cheats. The whole world can see that now.

The simple face of it is that this is a team with no integrity who are serisally dishonest.

[PolePosition_1]

Nor should it mean much. Apologising does not excuse what he did. Not once in that apology does he mention regret towards Jarno. It's not a real apology, it's just another Mclaren lie.

Only a lengthy ban will teach him and Mclaren.


At least they admit guilt and have been frank about it. Ferrari / Schumacher 2006 didn't even do that.

Does that mean they also deserve a lengthy ban?

When did Whitmarsh lie?


"There was no lie in that hearing," said Whitmarsh

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74152

[SGWilko]

At least they admit guilt and have been frank about it. Ferrari / Schumacher 2006 didn't even do that.

Does that mean they also deserve a lengthy ban?

Shock horror, you blasphemer!!!!

That's gonna take a lot of Hail Mary's that is.... :laugh:

[Bobby_Hamlin]

The very fact that Hamilton gave the interview and then overlooked what he had said in it would suggest that this wasn't some calculated and pre-conceived attempt on his part to defraud Trulli of his third place.

What compounded the entire thing and makes it all the more embarrassing for Whitmarsh is that he made the statement defending the team and playing down the 'lie' aspect when quite clearly what the stewards went on to publish contradicted and largely disproved those claims. Either Whitmarsh was incredibly naive to think it wouldn't be disproved or he was still ignorant of what actually happened. Either way it doesn't make him look good.

At least they admit guilt and have been frank about it. Ferrari / Schumacher 2006 didn't even do that.

Does that mean they also deserve a lengthy ban?

Thery admit guilt because they were caught. Hardly something to be applauded.

Ferrari should have been banned too. There were a lot of Mclaren fans demanding it then, who are now typically hypocritically not wanting a ban for their own cheats.

[Bagwan]

When did Whitmarsh lie?


Whitmarsh told the world that there were no lies in the steward's interviews .
That's a lie .

Unless it is the "rogue employee" card you are playing here , Martin must hve known what went on .
Lewis says he was upset at having to lie but did the dutiful thing .
Did he play that lie to Whitmarsh as well ?

[Dave B]

Thery admit guilt because they were caught. Hardly something to be applauded.

Ferrari should have been banned too. There were a lot of Mclaren fans demanding it then, who are now typically hypocritically not wanting a ban for their own cheats.
All I want is some consistency. Ban both, or ban neither. But you can't set a precident then change it according to which team you're dealing with.

"Try and put yourself in my position and understand that, like I said, I am not a liar. I have not gone through my life being a liar or dishonest.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74203

He just can't stop can he?

Liar on Sunday, liar again today.

[pino]

At least they admit guilt and have been frank about it. Ferrari / Schumacher 2006 didn't even do that.

Does that mean they also deserve a lengthy ban?

Have you got problems with my english ? I've asked to keep Ferrari and MS off here...same goes for everybody else thank you !

[ioan]

For what it's worth, Hamilton has issued a full apology:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74202

He also states that he was "instructed and misled" by Dave Ryan.

Very poor showing he basically throws the whole blame on the McLaren scapegoat.

Be a man Lewis, not a muppet.

All I want is some consistency. Ban both, or ban neither. But you can't set a precident then change it according to which team you're dealing with.

In a court of law, there is no legal restriction to prevent precedents being ignored if it is for the greater good.

So, do you want consistency or something that improves the sport?

[TL]

Have you got problems with my english ? I've asked to keep Ferrari and MS off here...same goes for everybody else thank you !

Hopefully you post the same warning when other teams/drivers are involved !

[ioan]

Evil? :laugh: A bit of perspective wouldn't go amiss here.

Josef Fritzl is evil.

Getting your opponent demoted in order for you to get a better position, based on a lie, it's evil. At the sports level is as evil as Fritzl, there you go team McFritzl. :rotflmao:

[christophulus]

For what it's worth, Hamilton has issued a full apology:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74202

He also states that he was "instructed and misled" by Dave Ryan.

It's good of him to apologise but I'd rather he'd have done it much earlier.


"Every time I have been informed to do something I have done it. This time I realise it was a huge mistake and I am learning from it.

I can believe that it was a mistake but I'm appalled that he would try and lie his way out of it, which seems to be what he's saying here. I'm stunned, quite frankly, that he'd do this. He's more than old enough to know that lying is a stupid idea.

I support Hamilton, but I don't believe that he's perfect and I get fed up of the whole "Lewy can do no wrong" attitude that the media have. I try to be impartial over the events on track and I won't try and support him over this. Not impressed.

[keysersoze]

"I honestly acted as a team member. If the team have asked me to do something I have generally done it . . . . Every time I have been informed to do something I have done it.”

The first part of that statement is true--he "generally" does what the team tells him. The the second half is a fabrication.

Remember qualifying at Hungary '07 Lewis?

[TL]

In a court of law, there is no legal restriction to prevent precedents being ignored if it is for the greater good.

So, do you want consistency or something that improves the sport?

Tamburello..what improvements have been made to the sport since them FIA officials started to come up with one after the other penalty..starting last season ! Do you really believe the way they are dealing wit things these days is goin to improve the sport ?

[Mark]

Having seen the footage on the BBC News last night, Trulli was well off track when Hamilton passed him. It would seem that if he had done nothing and held station, he would have gotten 3rd.

[Dave B]

Having seen the footage on the BBC News last night, Trulli was well off track when Hamilton passed him. It would seem that if he had done nothing and held station, he would have gotten 3rd.
That is the absurdity of the situation. At no point has the FIA moved to clarify whether what happened between Hamilton and Trulli - what actually happened, not Lewis' version of events - was within the rules.

He's been punished for lying, which is fair enough, but we're still none the wiser. I can only assume, with Jarno being reinstated, that the stewards accepted it was purely a cock-up; but some clarification wouldn't go amiss.

[Mark]

He's been punished for lying, which is fair enough, but we're still none the wiser. I can only assume, with Jarno being reinstated, that the stewards accepted it was purely a cock-up; but some clarification wouldn't go amiss.

Quite. My understand would be that if you go completely off-track during a safety-car period, as Trulli did, then you forfeit all rights to not be overtaken by the car(s) behind you, and you have to slot back in where you can.

But that's just my take on 'common sense' so may not match with the sporting regulations.

[christophulus]

Quite. My understand would be that if you go completely off-track during a safety-car period, as Trulli did, then you forfeit all rights to not be overtaken by the car(s) behind you, and you have to slot back in where you can.

But that's just my take on 'common sense' so may not match with the sporting regulations.

It's about as clear as mud on that point:

All competing cars must then reduce speed and form up in line behind the safety car no more than ten car lengths apart and overtaking, with the following exceptions, is forbidden until the cars reach the Line after the safety car has returned to the pits.

Overtaking will be permitted under the following circumstances :

- if a car is signalled to do so from the safety car ;

- under 40.15 below ;

- any car entering the pits may pass another car or the safety car remaining on the track after it has crossed the first safety car line ;

- any car leaving the pits may be overtaken by another car on the track before it crosses the second safety car line ;

- when the safety car is returning to the pits it may be overtaken by cars on the track once it has crossed the first safety car line ;

- any car stopping in its designated garage area whilst the safety car is using the pit lane (see 40.10 below) may be overtaken ;

- if any car slows with an obvious problem.

[ArrowsFA1]

Quite. My understand would be that if you go completely off-track during a safety-car period, as Trulli did, then you forfeit all rights to not be overtaken by the car(s) behind you, and you have to slot back in where you can.
That would normally be right, but because McLaren told Hamilton to let Jarno by he had no choice but to do so.

Of course, had the stewards looked at the evidence (i.e. listened to the team radio) at the first hearing then this would all have been clear to them and in all probability they would have reversed positions so that Jarno retained 3rd with Hamilton 4th.

They may also have questioned what Jarno was doing to cause him to go off track behind the safety car, but perhaps this is not considered to be an issue.

[Knock-on]

The on track shenanigans was confusion.

Lewis was told to mislead and he was a bit silly to. However, you do as your told I suppose.

If they told the truth, there would have been no problem and I'm glad Lewis was disqualified. It's a lesson that needs to be learnt and learnt quickly.

End of story for me although the jackels will enjoy gloating over this debarcle when they should remember recent history before posting ;)

[Bagwan]

I asked about the "rogue employee" defense a few minutes ago , and after re-reading Lewis's statement , it brings me to explore what might have transpired in those few minutes between SPEED and steward's interviews .

They likely knew that they had given up the spot incorrectly by then , and it may have been said that the only way to get it back was to omit mention of the order to have Jarno pass .
That may have been the order from Whitmarsh , and it seems consistent with his contentions that they didn't lie , but merely went light on info .

Ryan arrives with this directive , and accompanies Lewis into the room , telling him that the order is not to be mentioned .
When confronted with a more direct question than was expected , presumably Ryan , gave his answer , and the other , instructed to toe the line , answered the same way .

It might have been Lewis first , but either way , they would have to support each other , to try and reach the main objective , of trying to steal the point back .



It might have happened that way .
it seems logical .

But , you have to believe this idea that it was only he and Dave that made that big a decision .
And , it all seems a bit too convenient to believe , especially in a statement in which he states he's a liar , and then says he's not .

End of story for me although the jackels will enjoy gloating over this debarcle when they should remember recent history before posting ;)

What, like Spygate, where Lewis claimed not to know anything....wonder if he was "told" to do that?

Sunday suggests he could well have been.

[Knock-on]

What, like Spygate, where Lewis claimed not to know anything....wonder if he was "told" to do that?

Sunday suggests he could well have been.

It suggests nothing of the sort as you very well know.

He mislead the Stewards and was disqualified. A good lesson to learn. Better than deliberatly crashing into a competitor and being excluded from the whole championship if you ask me.

You and a few others think Lewis should be further sanctioned for telling a porky but what was your impression on the JV / MS incident then. Lifetime ban for cheating and endangering another drivers life?

Thought not ;)

[Hawkmoon]

End of story for me although the jackels will enjoy gloating over this debarcle when they should remember recent history before posting ;)

Nothing new there my friend. Adelaide '94 gets brought up all the time and that happened over 14 years ago. Something that happened last week has got a lot of life in it yet. :)

Over the last 2 seasons Hamilton and McLaren fans have gotten a taste of what Ferrari and Schumacher endured for years. Our driver and team were the subject of stupid, nonsensical, idiotic and down right insane accusations. Of course, they were also rightly accused of many things and their actions often made it hard to defend them. We tried of course, just as a good fan always does, but it was bloody hard at times. Now it's McLaren's and Hamilton's turn.

It would seem that Hamilton has taken Schumi's mantle in more ways than one. He's at times majestic on the track and other times he does stuff that make you scratch your head say WTF? I think it must be a bit of a worry for Hamilton's fans to see quite a bit of Schumi, their most despised enemy, developing in their poster boy.

We Ferrari fans aren't going to stop putting the boot in and really, why should we? Our team was left black and blue year after year, sometimes fairly, sometimes not. An eye for an eye, my friend?

[Tazio]

The world according to Fred:

Asked if the affair reminds him of Hungary 2007, when he and Hamilton were locked in a controversy over a qualifying pitlane incident, he answered: "Of course it reminds me of 2007.

"This is not the first time they have been to the stewards, it is not the first time they have lied to the stewards, so sooner or later they had to be caught and punished,


That Fred is a real pistol :p :
:rotflmao:



http://www.paddocktalk.com/news/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=105864&newlang=&topic=8&catid=0

[wedge]

Over the last 2 seasons Hamilton and McLaren fans have gotten a taste of what Ferrari and Schumacher endured for years. Our driver and team were the subject of stupid, nonsensical, idiotic and down right insane accusations. Of course, they were also rightly accused of many things and their actions often made it hard to defend them. We tried of course, just as a good fan always does, but it was bloody hard at times. Now it's McLaren's and Hamilton's turn.

As more of a neutral, I'm not surprised with Hamilton's shenanigans. Schumi and Lewis are both racers and sometimes those racing instincts can tip them over the edge.

[tintop]

It suggests nothing of the sort as you very well know.

He mislead the Stewards and was disqualified. A good lesson to learn. Better than deliberatly crashing into a competitor and being excluded from the whole championship if you ask me.

You and a few others think Lewis should be further sanctioned for telling a porky but what was your impression on the JV / MS incident then. Lifetime ban for cheating and endangering another drivers life?

Thought not ;)

Not personally a Lewis fan, or perhaps more accurately, not a fan of what I perceive to be Lewis' personality, but I agree with you. It will be interesting to see how he copes with this and an under performing car this season.

But the hypocrisy here..... ignoring far worse and more dangerous behavior is laughable. Lewis' youth at least gives you hope that he will learn from a major setback like this, some drivers, even former champions, seem to have never learned from their earlier mistakes.

[Knock-on]

Not personally a Lewis fan, or perhaps more accurately, not a fan of what I perceive to be Lewis' personality, but I agree with you. It will be interesting to see how he copes with this and an under performing car this season.

But the hypocrisy here..... ignoring far worse and more dangerous behavior is laughable. Lewis' youth at least gives you hope that he will learn from a major setback like this, some drivers, even former champions, seem to have never learned from their earlier mistakes.

Very fair post in my opinion.

I personally think Lewis was a bloody idiot over this case and McLaren foolhardy in the extreem. They made a huge cockup and were justifiably punished.

But a bit of perspective please gents?

[tintop]

That is the absurdity of the situation. At no point has the FIA moved to clarify whether what happened between Hamilton and Trulli - what actually happened, not Lewis' version of events - was within the rules.

He's been punished for lying, which is fair enough, but we're still none the wiser. I can only assume, with Jarno being reinstated, that the stewards accepted it was purely a cock-up; but some clarification wouldn't go amiss.

And once again, their failure to clarify yet another situation under race conditions (in this case under full course yellow conditions) tarnished a race. Seems almost deliberate, it gives them a chance to render haughty, dramatic, decisions at their leisure after the checker rather than make the hard decisions during real-time race conditions. Outright incompetency, or worse, from the most sophisticated T&S/Race Control on the planet.

[rabf1]

As more of a neutral, I'm not surprised with Hamilton's shenanigans. Schumi and Lewis are both racers and sometimes those racing instincts can tip them over the edge.


I agree Schumi lied and tried to cheat numerous times. Spinning out on purpose to derail qualifying, trying to wreck JV, etc. etc.

But there is something a little different about what Hamilton did. After the heat of battle, and after he should have been cooled down, he lied in response to a direct unambiguous question from the stewards to try to steal someone else's podium. The penalty for that ought to be more severe than just a disqualification for that one race.

[F1boat]

I dunno, rabf1. In my opinion deliberately crashing into a colleague is by far the most serious crime, as you risk your own life and the life of your competitor.

[pino]

Thanks for (once again) ignoring my request :rolleyes: