Mercedes-Benz 1-2-3

[Rollo]

The two Brawns were powered by Mercedes-Benz (even though from the outside you can't tell) and Hamilton's McLaren was MB powered.

I'm taking a wild stab in the dark here and I'm going to suggest that the last time we had a 1-2-3 for an engine manufacturer was back in 1997 at the British GP when Villeneuve's Williams and the two Benettons of Alesi and Wurz finished second and third.

Am I wrong?

[dj_bytedisaster]

you are - and I'm being a tad anoracky here - IIRC correctly the Renault in the Williams was called Mecachrome and the ones in the Benetton were called Playlife ;)

But you're right, it has been quite a while that a manufacturer has swept the rostrum, although many around here share the opinion that the penalty against Trulli, that got Lewis the 3rd place was at least rather questionable.

[Bagwan]

you are - and I'm being a tad anoracky here - IIRC correctly the Renault in the Williams was called Mecachrome and the ones in the Benetton were called Playlife ;)

But you're right, it has been quite a while that a manufacturer has swept the rostrum, although many around here share the opinion that the penalty against Trulli, that got Lewis the 3rd place was at least rather questionable.

I think it had to be a Renault , if JV won with it in the back . The Mechachrome , and then the Supertech were both Renault based , but I don't think either were up to winning anything , as far as I remember it .

Was that anorakier ?

[Rollo]

Renault was privatised in 1996 and supplied engines for 1997. Mecachrome & Playlife appeared in 1998 and apart from Hill's win in the Jordan in Belgium, only McLarens and Ferraris won anything else.

[Bagwan]

Renault was privatised in 1996 and supplied engines for 1997. Mecachrome & Playlife appeared in 1998 and apart from Hill's win in the Jordan in Belgium, only McLarens and Ferraris won anything else.

Oh crap , I was right .
I guess it was anorakier .

Thanks for that .

[Valve Bounce]

The two Brawns were powered by Mercedes-Benz (even though from the outside you can't tell) and Hamilton's McLaren was MB powered.

I'm taking a wild stab in the dark here and I'm going to suggest that the last time we had a 1-2-3 for an engine manufacturer was back in 1997 at the British GP when Villeneuve's Williams and the two Benettons of Alesi and Wurz finished second and third.

Am I wrong?

Or you could point out that we had two Virgins coming one-two. Now, that must be a first!!

[F1boat]

What a start for the good old Norbert :)

[Mark]

Renault was privatised in 1996 and supplied engines for 1997. Mecachrome & Playlife appeared in 1998 and apart from Hill's win in the Jordan in Belgium, only McLarens and Ferraris won anything else.

Yep, that's why we raced in Jerez in 1997 as Renault asked for their final race to be within Europe. Then we saw Villeneuve win the championship with a Renault engine.

Of course Renault didn't stay away for long and Benetton at least since 1995 have always had a Renault engine in the back.

[ioan]

Renault was privatised in 1996 ...

Huh :?:

[Mark]

Huh :?:

It was until then owned by the French government and in 1996 it went private. The government still owns 15.7%

[wedge]

For someone who turned up at the occasion CART race, DTM; I wondered what on earth Norbet Haug was doing at the McLaren garage at the start of the race knowing full well BGP had a better chance winning :confused:

[dj_bytedisaster]

Because Mercedes is closer tied to McLaren. They own a substantial stake in the team AFAIK, while Brawn and Force India are just regular customers.

[Mark]

Because Mercedes is closer tied to McLaren. They own a substantial stake in the team AFAIK, while Brawn and Force India are just regular customers.

Haug was wearing McLaren clothing by the looks of things, ok maybe Mercedes clothing but the two are not easy to tell apart!

It's very true that McLaren and Mercedes are very closely associated, and you wonder if it came down to it, who Mercedes is going to help?!

I doubt they'd have a problem with Brawn winning in 2009, especially if McLaren can't. But if it came down to a straight contest between the two?

[BoilerIMS]

But if it came down to a straight contest between the two?

In the Sauber-Ferrari days, the conspiracy-theorist in me wanted to think that there was an "engine explode" button at Jean Todt's console. Kind of a "break glass and press this button if Sauber is embarrassing the factory Ferrari team" option. Maybe McLaren as well?

[ioan]

It was until then owned by the French government and in 1996 it went private. The government still owns 15.7%

Didn't know that.
So if the government will have to take it back because of the economic downturn than it will be business like usual. :)

[christophulus]

It's very true that McLaren and Mercedes are very closely associated, and you wonder if it came down to it, who Mercedes is going to help?!

I doubt they'd have a problem with Brawn winning in 2009, especially if McLaren can't. But if it came down to a straight contest between the two?

I think it's more like Mercedes-McLaren at the moment, Merc have a fairly substantial stake in the team so they'd definitely back McLaren first. Besides, Brawn probably get a B-spec Mercedes engine anyway, something the BBC commentators alluded to over the weekend, so Mercedes can't do much more to slow them down.

To be honest, I think the Brawns would be exactly where they are whichever engine they had in the back, especially since the engine freeze, so it's not really an issue!

[Rollo]

So if the government will have to take it back because of the economic downturn than it will be business like usual. :)

Absolutely, and they might not even be all that nice about it :(

Louis Renault himself probably had his neck broken by officials of the Third Republic as retribution for his factories building trucks for the Third Reich.

[V12]

With all this engine homologation/freeze these days, is there such thing as a B-spec engine anymore?

Much of Toro Rosso's success last year was down to having a Ferrari V8 of the same spec as the works cars wasn't it? (Although an Adrian Newey design and Vettel at the wheel helped obviously)

[wedge]

Wonder who'll get engine upgrades?

[dj_bytedisaster]

They days, where you get a new engine upgrade every week are gone. Since you have to run 3-4 races on the same machinery, it wouldn't make sense either.
I think Brawns Mercs are the same as McLarens, maybe apart from some minor detail. As a manufacturer, you wouldn't seriously give another team a worse engine deliberately, would you? After all Merc isn't running a "full team" like BMW or Renault. They are percieved as the engine manufacturer, even in McLarens case, so the more horses they've got running in the race the better. Once McLaren get their act together, they effectively have 4 Merc powered cars shooting for a win.

This weekend, apart from the brilliant drive of Hamilton and the rather luckily gained podium, the weekend wasn't certainly the best one McLaren ever had, and yet still good ol' Norbert could gloat all saturday, that Merc powered cars swept the front row of the grid - for Mercedes this was one epically good weekend.

OT: Why is it that you can't get a shot of the McLaren garage, without that creepy father of Lewis lurking around - this guy really gets annoying. :S

[jjanicke]

Haug was wearing McLaren clothing by the looks of things, ok maybe Mercedes clothing but the two are not easy to tell apart!

It's very true that McLaren and Mercedes are very closely associated, and you wonder if it came down to it, who Mercedes is going to help?!

I doubt they'd have a problem with Brawn winning in 2009, especially if McLaren can't. But if it came down to a straight contest between the two?

Mercedes has the single largest share ownership of Mclaren. Followed by, I believe, Bahrain (yes the country, or at least the king) and then the TAG Group and good old Ron.


I think it's more like Mercedes-McLaren at the moment, Merc have a fairly substantial stake in the team so they'd definitely back McLaren first. Besides, Brawn probably get a B-spec Mercedes engine anyway, something the BBC commentators alluded to over the weekend, so Mercedes can't do much more to slow them down.

To be honest, I think the Brawns would be exactly where they are whichever engine they had in the back, especially since the engine freeze, so it's not really an issue!

I'm not sure there is a B-Spec engine. The engines have been locked and changes can only happen for reliability purposes. Any changes have to get cleared by the FIA with, I believe, Team approval.

In fact Renault had to get special permission from all teams to allow them to bring their engine performance up to parity with the others over the winter.

Button and Rubens have stated that the Mclaren is significantly more derivable than the Honda. That is worth something.

[aryan]

Mercedes has the single largest share ownership of Mclaren. Followed by, I believe, Bahrain (yes the country, or at least the king) and then the TAG Group and good old Ron.


McLaren Racing is a member of the McLaren Group, a small conglomerate with about 8 or so subsidiaries. Its shareholders include:

Daimler AG: 40%[/*:m:ajl2acxo]
Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company (wholly owned by the Kingdom of Bahrain): 30%,[/*:m:ajl2acxo]
Ron Dennis: 15%[/*:m:ajl2acxo]
Mansour Ojjeh (owner of TAG): 15%.[/*:m:ajl2acxo]

[nigelred5]

I don't believe Braun is currently using the Mercedes KERS either, so they may also have an advantage with weight distribution. Weight distribution was a major issue with the banned fuel tank/transfer system in the Honda days. Maybe they finally figured that out as well. Seems as though all of the KERS teams were having balance problems of more than just an aerodynamic nature.