Ross Did Something Nodoby Could Expect!

[goodf1fun]

Ross Brown manage to take over the team, the car is the fastest on the grid, and this is something the honda engineers could not match for so many years. How did he manage to do that? Other teams also have good engineers and designers..Maybe is because they started building the car from last year? That gave them an advantage? The mercedes agreement come 2 weeks ago.. so i suppose they didn't know how this engine could behave on this chassis.. This is strange.. Also imagine a team that is almost out of f1 the last days to be saved and able to dominate a race with both cars... What do you think make the difference? Only Ross? i am very confussed and i cannot think what reasons make them the team to beat with all this manufacturers giants .

[UltimateDanGTR]

The reason for Brawns success is a combination of 3 factors;

1. They developed the car through most of 2008
2. New rule changes meant that Brawn happened to get an advantage
3. GOOD HARD SPIRITED WORK! from all at Brawn.

[christophulus]

The reason for Brawns success is a combination of 3 factors;

1. They developed the car through most of 2008
2. New rule changes meant that Brawn happened to get an advantage
3. GOOD HARD SPIRITED WORK! from all at Brawn.

And being slightly cynical, a blank cheque from Honda for the whole of 2008 along with a workforce of 700 and a world-class factory. I don't doubt that it took a lot of hard work to design the car and also to save the team, but don't forget they had an enormous budget last year.

Despite this, a 1-2 tomorrow would be brilliant :)

[dj_bytedisaster]

The answer is surprizingly simple. At the start of the 2008 season it was obvious that the Honda car was a complete monkey's breakfast, so they decided to just give up on it and started the 2009 design when other teams were still sorting out their 2008 car. Thats why the last season was so abysmal for Honda.
The BGP01, which in essence is a Honda design has been in development longer than any other car in the field. Which makes it all the more ridiculous for Honda to pull out after such a brave move as to give up on a whole season.
It is said they used the financial crisis as an excuse to get out of it without losing face (very important in japanese culture), but seeing their adandoned cars mopping the floor with the opposition, imho, means they just lost face BIG TIME. If I was the one to have made the decision to pull out, I'd be hugging my sword by now.

[Ranger]

Honda designed the car using their resources and so they deserve most of the credit.

[LiamM]

I think we all have to be greatful to Ross Brawn for pulling off the buy-out, letting this car go to waste would have been a dam shame!

[dj_bytedisaster]

Honda designed the car using their resources and so they deserve most of the credit.

No, they deserve to be laughed really hard at for abandoning a brilliant design. If Ross wouldn't have bought the team we'd be looking at a Red Bull pole now and a badly decimated field of 18 cars. Honda deserve no respect whatsoever for the most stupid decision in F1 history.

[F1boat]

I think that with Honda engines they would have been slower.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I think that with Honda engines they would have been slower.

I don't think that the engine was Hondas problem in 2008. Their car was a complete dog. If you think that by now the manufacturers could produce engines that rev 20K+ but with the rev limit in place, they are all not too different I think. Although not an engineer I suppose the differences between the engines are marginal and mainly confined to differences in how smooth they deliver the power. The only thing that could slow that Brawn car would be an engine that came from a JCB digger.

[Ranger]

No, they deserve to be laughed really hard at for abandoning a brilliant design. If Ross wouldn't have bought the team we'd be looking at a Red Bull pole now and a badly decimated field of 18 cars. Honda deserve no respect whatsoever for the most stupid decision in F1 history.

You're obviously not an expert in economics or PR.

The decision wasn't at all stupid, it was made in the context of the economic downturn particularly in Japan.

[jens]

I would say the answers presented here in this thread can be expanded. To say "their car was a dog, so they concentrated early on 2009" doesn't explain, how did they suddenly "learn" to construct a competitive F1 car. Early preparation for a new season doesn't guarantee success if the fundamentals, how to build a good car, aren't understood. But how were they understood?

Here is my take:
As we know, 2007 saw three important signings for Honda Racing. Besides Brawn also Bigois from Williams (now as an aerodynamic chief - area, where Honda had most of its problems) and Zander from BMW, now deputy technical director.

They were hired too late to have any meaningful effect on RA108 (again designed by Nakamoto) and early testing in 2008 showed that Honda was again well behind others. However, arguably, Bigois' and Zander's input during testing proved to be valuable in finding car performance, because by the beginning of the season Honda's car was almost midfield. In the first three races Honda's best qualifying positions were 11th, 11th and 9th. After that the hard decision to concentrate on 2009 was taken and inevitable dropping in pecking order begun. Hence I'd say that RA108 had some potential and it wasn't totally unlocked. It had potential to be a solid midfield car. If we add the engine factor here with Mercedes-Benz arguably being more powerful than Honda, then with a top engine and proper development work Honda could have been clearly higher in 2008 - for example why not upper midfield. Hence the potential together with the newly signed top specialists - who even hadn't had their full influence yet - was there, but the potential was decided to throw into the efforts for 2009. If we include that factory teams have cocked up with KERS or whatever else, then Brawn's pace suddenly doesn't seem so surprising at all in the scheme of things.

[Robinho]

Brawn Gp - The Greatest Comeback Since Lazarous! :d

[dj_bytedisaster]

You're obviously not an expert in economics or PR.

The decision wasn't at all stupid, it was made in the context of the economic downturn particularly in Japan.

Neigther are they, by the looks of things. What broke Honda was not the financial downturn. Running a car without sponsors and some limp-wristed ecomentalist livery, that's what emptied their pockets. Toyota, BMW, Merc are no less hit by the downturn, but somehoe they all managed to find a couple of pennies down the back of their sofas to continue running. No matter how they cover it, Honda wanted to get out of it the easy way and blamed the economics and they now get what they deserve, epic embarassment.

my 2 cents

[F1boat]

Brawn Gp - The Greatest Comeback Since Lazarous! :d

Haha. So true.

[DexDexter]

No, they deserve to be laughed really hard at for abandoning a brilliant design. If Ross wouldn't have bought the team we'd be looking at a Red Bull pole now and a badly decimated field of 18 cars. Honda deserve no respect whatsoever for the most stupid decision in F1 history.

Yes, they showed no respect for Formula 1. That's the problem with these manufacturers, they come and go as they please whereas teams like Williams exist for racing. Perhaps car manufacturers shouldn't be allowed to own more than 50% of a team.

[ioan]

Ross Brown manage to take over the team, the car is the fastest on the grid, and this is something the honda engineers could not match for so many years. How did he manage to do that?

Ross Brawn to the left Ross Brawn to the right! He is only a human being FGS and he didn't design the car. :rolleyes:

Now the explanation to your question:

- the design of this Honda F1 was the most expensive to date
- they designed the car since the start of 2008
- the double decker diffuser was in fact a Super Aguri innovation
- after Fry strangled Super Aguri F1, Honda F1 poached most of their engineers (and they proved to be better than the Honda ones)
- so the ddecker diffuser is in fact something they got from SAF1 staff
- Honda F1 used 3, and I mean THREE, wind tunnels during last season to develop this race car and some 700 people worked on it!

So, if anyone thought that Brawn did singlehandedly develop a world beater with little resources than I have to disappoint you, this car did cost more than any other on the grid.
This is no miracle as some like to believe it's lots of work + lost of money + luck.

[N. Jones]

The reason for Brawns success is a combination of 3 factors;

1. They developed the car through most of 2008
2. New rule changes meant that Brawn happened to get an advantage
3. GOOD HARD SPIRITED WORK! from all at Brawn.

Yeah, they were working on the '09 car for most of 2008. Not the only reason for their early success but it pays off to start early! :)

[goodf1fun]

Other teams will catch up starting from the next race... Browns team will be happy to finish in the points until the half of the year. Resources, experience, and also money will talk in my opinion.

[F1boat]

We will see. I want to remind you that similar opinions was mentioned about Renault in early 2005. On the other hand, back then Toyota also started the season well, but...