Fuel loads for the race start!!!

[goodf1fun]

Do you think that maybe we will see a surprise tomorrow? Both Brawn's make a lap at the Q3 and then immediately go into the garage , stopping inside and wait.. While other cars stay out to burn fuel...Maybe Brawn's cars are very light for the race? And they try to save fuel? I know that they are very very fast but a short stint in the race could destroy the race for them if they come out in traffic... We will see! It was very strange to go and park in the middle of Q3 and then come out again only for the last lap!!! I am looking forward for an exciting race with lots of surprises! :)

[F1boat]

I think that they are not light. In fact, I won;t be surprised if they are heavier.

[UltimateDanGTR]

I abgree with F1boat, they are probably not light. They just want to conserve fuel and the engine use and they can do that because their car is the best. I think they showed alot of confidence there.

Thats my analysis.

[RJL25]

don't know what telecast you where watching, all cars appeared to do 2 stints of 3 laps each, therefore all burning the same amount of fuel.

Webber stuffed his last lap.. damn! Looked like he was on for best of the rest behind the Brawn's but his team mate obviously got that.

Red Bull's seem to be fastest of the non-diffuser cars, but interestingly Toyota and Williams wheren't as fast as I thought....

But great for Brawn, what a good job!

[goodf1fun]

So if reliability is ok we will have a 1-2 from EX-Honda :)

[Tazio]

So if reliability is ok we will have a 1-2 from EX-Honda :)
And if JB, and RB can keep it on the track ;)

[UltimateDanGTR]

We cannot garuntee that. Anything could go wrong. what Im hoping for is a great on track battle between the two Brawns at the front, Thise two joustling for position would be superb! Like Melbourne 96 all over again...

[Dave B]

Don't forget that fuel loads will be published, no longer will we have to wait for the first round of pitstops to find out how genuine qualifying times were.

[goodf1fun]

when are we going to be informed???

[UltimateDanGTR]

when we watch the race and find out

[jens]

Brawn GP dominated everyone in Q1 and Q2 too, so surely they aren't light. I can't see anyone troubling them in the race on pure pace unless we get a safety car or other distracting factors. They have a comfortable buffer-zone from the attack of KERS-cars at the start too.

[ozrevhead]

arent the KG/Fuel loads going to be released before the race start?

Where would the publish them

[Dave B]

arent the KG/Fuel loads going to be released before the race start?

Where would the publish them

Yes, expect them to appear first on the FIA website and then very quickly by all the usual outlets.

[RJL25]

you don't place 1-2 in all three sessions of qualifying if you don't have a SIGNIFICANTLY faster car then anyone else. They will dominate the GP if they are reliable.

[christophulus]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74011


From the 2009 season, the FIA is making public the weights of the cars, with their fuel load included, following Saturday's qualifying session.
Below is the weight of each car following qualifying for the Australian Grand Prix, sorted by grid position.
Pos. Driver Car weight
1. Jenson Button 664.5kg
2. Rubens Barrichello 666.5kg
3. Sebastien Vettel 657kg
4. Robert Kubica 650kg
5. Nico Rosberg 657kg
6. Felipe Massa 654kg
7. Kimi Raikkonen 655.5kg
8. Mark Webber 662kg
9. Nick Heidfeld 691.5kg
10. Fernando Alonso 680.7kg
11. Kazuki Nakajima 680.5kg
12. Heikki Kovalainen 690.6kg
13. Sebastien Buemi 675.5kg
14. Nelson Piquet 694.1kg
15. Giancarlo Fisichella 689kg
16. Adrian Sutil 684.5kg
17. Sebastien Bourdais 662.5kg
18. Lewis Hamilton 655kg
19. Jarno Trulli 660kg
20. Timo Glock 670kg

[ioan]

I think that they are not light. In fact, I won;t be surprised if they are heavier.

Heavier? Don't think so.

According to Alex Wurz the Hondas will be on a 2 stop strategy, but not a very conservative one.

PS: I just saw the weights have been already posted.

[F1boat]

See? They are heavier ;)

[ioan]

you don't place 1-2 in all three sessions of qualifying if you don't have a SIGNIFICANTLY faster car then anyone else. They will dominate the GP if they are reliable.

Agree.

[woody2goody]

I suspected Brawn had a lot of fuel on board. Also I thought Webber was heavier. If he did mess up his last lap it would have been interesting to see where he would have ended up.

Shame about Toyota as they were pretty heavy and could well have been challenging for the podium :(

[Dave B]

So in weight order:

Pos. Driver Car weight
14. Nelson Piquet 694.1kg
9. Nick Heidfeld 691.5kg
12. Heikki Kovalainen 690.6kg
15. Giancarlo Fisichella 689kg
16. Adrian Sutil 684.5kg
11. Kazuki Nakajima 680.5kg *
13. Sebastien Buemi 675.5kg
10. Fernando Alonso 680.7kg
20. Timo Glock 670kg^
2. Rubens Barrichello 666.5kg
1. Jenson Button 664.5kg
17. Sebastien Bourdais 662.5kg
8. Mark Webber 662kg
19. Jarno Trulli 660kg
5. Nico Rosberg 657kg
3. Sebastien Vettel 657kg
7. Kimi Raikkonen 655.5kg
18. Lewis Hamilton 655kg
6. Felipe Massa 654kg
4. Robert Kubica 650kg

[goodf1fun]

wow

[F1boat]

Why, oh why Lewis is so light?!

[ioan]

So in weight order:

Pos. Driver Car weight
14. Nelson Piquet 694.1kg
9. Nick Heidfeld 691.5kg
12. Heikki Kovalainen 690.6kg
15. Giancarlo Fisichella 689kg
16. Adrian Sutil 684.5kg
11. Kazuki Nakajima 680.5kg *
13. Sebastien Buemi 675.5kg
10. Fernando Alonso 680.7kg
20. Timo Glock 670kg^
2. Rubens Barrichello 666.5kg
7. Kimi Raikkonen 655.5kg
1. Jenson Button 664.5kg
17. Sebastien Bourdais 662.5kg
8. Mark Webber 662kg
19. Jarno Trulli 660kg
5. Nico Rosberg 657kg
3. Sebastien Vettel 657kg
18. Lewis Hamilton 655kg
6. Felipe Massa 654kg
4. Robert Kubica 650kg

Check again Raikkonen's weight and placement in that list. ;)

[ioan]

Why, oh why Lewis is so light?!

Because he needs to come through the ranks, and because with this years tires a one stopper is out of question.

[jens]

BrawnGP is heavier than closest rivals? Oh well, game over. :p :

As has been pointed already out, Toyota looks good with those fuel levels too. I'd imagine they are more competitive with race fuel than in Q2 simulation, which was also noticed during winter testing. But - try better next time. :p :

[Dave B]

Check again Raikkonen's weight and placement in that list. ;)

Well spotted! I've edited my above post.

CORRECTED LIST:

14. Nelson Piquet 694.1kg
9. Nick Heidfeld 691.5kg
12. Heikki Kovalainen 690.6kg
15. Giancarlo Fisichella 689kg
16. Adrian Sutil 684.5kg
11. Kazuki Nakajima 680.5kg *
13. Sebastien Buemi 675.5kg
10. Fernando Alonso 680.7kg
20. Timo Glock 670kg^
2. Rubens Barrichello 666.5kg
1. Jenson Button 664.5kg
17. Sebastien Bourdais 662.5kg
8. Mark Webber 662kg
19. Jarno Trulli 660kg
5. Nico Rosberg 657kg
3. Sebastien Vettel 657kg
7. Kimi Raikkonen 655.5kg
18. Lewis Hamilton 655kg
6. Felipe Massa 654kg
4. Robert Kubica 650kg

[woody2goody]

I'm happy that Fisi and Heidfeld are heavy. I reckon Nick is fueled up because ironically, he doesn't warm his tyres up very quickly, so he'll be in a better position to conserve the soft compound ones if (and it's likely) he'll only be stopping once. Plus, Nick has KERS, so potentially he could gain a couple of places off the line, and try to stay ahead of them as they'll definitely be stopping before him!

I'm pretty sure that Nakajima will come through the ranks after the first round. When (inevitably) he gets some clear air, he has possibly the second fastest car, so he'll leapfrog a few guys there.

[Sonic]

Why, oh why Lewis is so light?!

Now he's at the back won't he be allowed to tank up? This list is what they ran in quali - or am I talking frakin nonsense? - not change there then.

[Dave B]

Ah crap, I got Alonso in the wrong place.

Corrected list, again:

14. Nelson Piquet 694.1kg
9. Nick Heidfeld 691.5kg
12. Heikki Kovalainen 690.6kg
15. Giancarlo Fisichella 689kg
16. Adrian Sutil 684.5kg
10. Fernando Alonso 680.7kg
11. Kazuki Nakajima 680.5kg *
13. Sebastien Buemi 675.5kg
20. Timo Glock 670kg^
2. Rubens Barrichello 666.5kg
1. Jenson Button 664.5kg
17. Sebastien Bourdais 662.5kg
8. Mark Webber 662kg
19. Jarno Trulli 660kg
5. Nico Rosberg 657kg
3. Sebastien Vettel 657kg
7. Kimi Raikkonen 655.5kg
18. Lewis Hamilton 655kg
6. Felipe Massa 654kg
4. Robert Kubica 650kg

[RJL25]

Why, oh why Lewis is so light?!

It's called gain theory, if you do the same as everyone else (ie heavy fuel load) then you can only ever expect to get the same results as everyone else. If you do something different however you at least have a chance of getting a different, and hopefully better result.

It's risky, but it has worked in the past, and worked a number of times last season for Alonso when he was burried in the pack.

[christophulus]

Loading Hamilton up with fuel would just mean he'll coast around at the back for the whole race. He was complaining yesterday that the car bottomed out when it was heavy. Can't see either McLaren hitting the points though without the other cars crashing out.

[Malbec]

We'll see if having Lewis on a light fuel load works, when he's on it he can be sublime but he may have a problem if he gets frustrated especially since his car isn't inherently quicker than everyone elses, in fact its quite a bit slower than most.

I'm not very impressed by the Ferrari pace, if they qualified where they are on such a light load then they have some catching up to do, I had assumed they were quite heavily loaded watching quali.

Having said all that, Brawns apart the grid is unbelievably tightly packed, its not just going to be a thrilling race, its going to be a thrilling season!

[RJL25]

There is a chance that KERS will create chaos in the first corner with Brawn (non-KERS) being a lot slower to accelerate off the line compared to some of the KERS equiped cars... you know there is a real chance that starting a few rows back could prove to be the safer option and you could end up picking up a lot of spots if the front of the field gets scattered!

It usually happens at the first race of the season anyway, even bigger chance with the KERS i believe

[ozrevhead]

Well spotted! I've edited my above post.

CORRECTED LIST:

14. Nelson Piquet 694.1kg
9. Nick Heidfeld 691.5kg
12. Heikki Kovalainen 690.6kg
15. Giancarlo Fisichella 689kg
16. Adrian Sutil 684.5kg
11. Kazuki Nakajima 680.5kg *
13. Sebastien Buemi 675.5kg
10. Fernando Alonso 680.7kg
20. Timo Glock 670kg^
2. Rubens Barrichello 666.5kg
1. Jenson Button 664.5kg
17. Sebastien Bourdais 662.5kg
8. Mark Webber 662kg
19. Jarno Trulli 660kg
5. Nico Rosberg 657kg
3. Sebastien Vettel 657kg
7. Kimi Raikkonen 655.5kg
18. Lewis Hamilton 655kg
6. Felipe Massa 654kg
4. Robert Kubica 650kg

Marks going to need one hell of a start :(

[Mauri A]

Marks going to need one hell of a start :(
Kovalainen was 35 kgs heavier than Hamilton and still faster!

[christophulus]

http://allenonf1.wordpress.com/2009/03/28/heres-how-the-race-will-unfold/http://allenonf1.wordpress.com/2009/03/28/heres-how-the-race-will-unfold/

I actually like James Allen a lot more now I can't hear him :) . Nice run down of what the fuel loads actually translate to in the race.

[Breeze]

I'm happy that Fisi and Heidfeld are heavy. I reckon Nick is fueled up because ironically, he doesn't warm his tyres up very quickly, so he'll be in a better position to conserve the soft compound ones if (and it's likely) he'll only be stopping once. Plus, Nick has KERS, so potentially he could gain a couple of places off the line, and try to stay ahead of them as they'll definitely be stopping before him!

I'm pretty sure that Nakajima will come through the ranks after the first round. When (inevitably) he gets some clear air, he has possibly the second fastest car, so he'll leapfrog a few guys there.

I'm optimistic for Heidfeld, too. He's carrying a very heavy load and he is a lightweight driver. I'm especially pleased 'cause he's one of my FGP drivers! :D

[Malbec]

Kovalainen was 35 kgs heavier than Hamilton and still faster!

Neither Lewis or Heiki would have run with race fuel on board would they? The race fuel was added after quali for those who didn't make it to Q3.

[DexDexter]

We'll see if having Lewis on a light fuel load works, when he's on it he can be sublime but he may have a problem if he gets frustrated especially since his car isn't inherently quicker than everyone elses, in fact its quite a bit slower than most.

I'm not very impressed by the Ferrari pace, if they qualified where they are on such a light load then they have some catching up to do, I had assumed they were quite heavily loaded watching quali.

Having said all that, Brawns apart the grid is unbelievably tightly packed, its not just going to be a thrilling race, its going to be a thrilling season!

True, Ferrari actually look quite slow. The drivers basically did the same lap time, since Kimi's car is one lap heavier, so that's were the car is right now. Not that impressive.

[Mauri A]

Neither Lewis or Heiki would have run with race fuel on board would they? The race fuel was added after quali for those who didn't make it to Q3.
Yes, my mistake!

[wedge]

Seems like BGP will win on paper.

I hate this. It should be unpredictable. I like the idea of wondering whether such and such team/driver are running light in the first stint.

[Tazio]

Seems like BGP will win on paper.

I hate this. It should be unpredictable. I like the idea of wondering whether such and such team/driver are running light in the first stint.

Word up! Bro

[V12]

If I were a betting man I'd probably stick my money on Rubens to win it now. I can't see Button getting too far ahead of him in the opening stint - that's assuming he leads off the start, and Rubens will probably leapfrog him at the first stops, just a hunch.

[christophulus]

I hate this. It should be unpredictable. I like the idea of wondering whether such and such team/driver are running light in the first stint.

I kind of agree, but then again they're only making official what everyone figured out anyway. About 99% of the time the commentators know what's going to happen.

[VkmSpouge]

Button is 2kgs lighter than Barrichello, I would guess that's about one lap of fuel?

[paddocknews]

The official starting weights of the cars has been published (http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/03/28/australian-gp-grid-and-race-weights/). Given that each car has to weigh a minimum of 605kg, and a lap of Mellbourne uses approximately 2.5kg of fuel, we can predict which lap each car will make its first pit stop on:
Robert Kubica 18
Felipe Massa 19
Sebastien Vettel 20
Kimi Raikkonen 20
Lewis Hamilton 20
Nico Rosberg 20
Mark Webber 22
Jarno Trulli 22
Jenson Button 23
Sebastien Bourdais 23
Rubens Barrichello 24
Timo Glock 26
Sebastien Buemi 28
Fernando Alonso 30
Adrian Sutil 31
Kazuki Nakajima 32
Giancarlo Fisichella 33
Nick Heidfeld 34
Heikki Kovalainen 34
Nelson Piquet 35

f1fanatic

[dj_bytedisaster]

Kubica's too light. If nothing blows up, we'll hear the brazlian anthem for rubens 2morrow. and i'll be a happy chap :P

[F1boat]

No, no, it will be the British one for 2nd year in a row :)

[pettersolberg29]

I just realised, the published weights are not what was used in quali except for the top 10. The weights is the amount of fuel for tomorrow, yes?

Does that mean Kovi, Nick and Nelson are on one-stoppers?

[xyz123]

Something that has occured to me about Hamilton being light. Could it be McLaren are running two very different strategies so that if there is a safety car one of their cars could be in a position to take advantage of it.

Unless there are a lot of retirements then McLaren's only hope of points could be to get lucky with a safety car (you usually get at least one in Melbourne). By running the two cars on different strategies, if there is a safety car then one of the cars should be in a position to gain from it.

[Tazio]

No, no, it will be the British one for 2nd year in a row :) If either Rubens or Jenson win you wil get to hear the bloody thing :dozey:

[ioan]

The official starting weights of the cars has been published (http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/03/28/australian-gp-grid-and-race-weights/). Given that each car has to weigh a minimum of 605kg, and a lap of Mellbourne uses approximately 2.5kg of fuel, we can predict which lap each car will make its first pit stop on:
Robert Kubica 18
Felipe Massa 19
Sebastien Vettel 20
Kimi Raikkonen 20
Lewis Hamilton 20
Nico Rosberg 20
Mark Webber 22
Jarno Trulli 22
Jenson Button 23
Sebastien Bourdais 23
Rubens Barrichello 24
Timo Glock 26
Sebastien Buemi 28
Fernando Alonso 30
Adrian Sutil 31
Kazuki Nakajima 32
Giancarlo Fisichella 33
Nick Heidfeld 34
Heikki Kovalainen 34
Nelson Piquet 35

f1fanatic

They also need to do a lap to get to the grid and one formation lap.

[christophulus]

They also need to do a lap to get to the grid and one formation lap.

I was wondering about that, but 2.5kg per lap is only a rough estimate, and as they're only cruising around slowly for the formation lap wouldn't it all average out? Regardless, you could just shift every number back two laps and it'd still give you a basic idea :)

[pettersolberg29]

The race is only 58 laps so anyone with 30 odd laps of fuel could be one-stopping. Is that right?

[keysersoze]

2 Questions:

1. Isn't most of the weight difference between Heidfeld and Kubica due to Heidfeld running KERS while Kubica isn't?

2. Since they will be relegated to the back, will Glock and Trulli be permitted to change their "declared fuel?"

[pettersolberg29]

If the program on BBC starts at 0600 tomorrow, does that mean the race starts at 0700 if there is an hour build up? Or is there no build up?

[christophulus]

If the program on BBC starts at 0600 tomorrow, does that mean the race starts at 0700 if there is an hour build up? Or is there no build up?

Yep, that's the plan, race starts at 7am with an hour's build up from 6am.

If you're in the UK don't forget to put your clock forward an hour before you head off to bed though :p

[markabilly]

which will be more important--fuel loads or team orders?

[airshifter]

It's just like any other season. Unless you factor who is on which tires, who has qualifying pace and who has race pace, who blows up and who doesn't, how many people get taken out at the first turn.....

In reality we have nothing other than educated guesses, which in F1 are often wrong! :laugh:


I would guess the lighter cars might be in good shape if they are on the softs. They can set up for longer stints on the stops as the harder tires need the heat. Likewise for the heavy cars already starting on the hard compounds, they can use a short stint with the softs, and a safety car period can make that a good strategy.


I won't predict much other than....

Rubens will finish ahead of Jenson.

Kubica will accompany Kimi on the other podium steps.

[xyz123]

2 Questions:

1. Isn't most of the weight difference between Heidfeld and Kubica due to Heidfeld running KERS while Kubica isn't?

2. Since they will be relegated to the back, will Glock and Trulli be permitted to change their "declared fuel?"

1) I thought the reason Kubica was not using KERS was because with Kubica on board and the KERS system the car was heavier then the minimum 605kg before any fuel was added. They wouldn't therefore be able to add ballast to help balance the car without adding additional weight. Heidfeld plus KERS was still under the minimum weight limit.

2) They can provided they start from the pitlane and not the last two positions on the grid. If any car that initially qualified in the top 10 is given a grid penalty they cannot adjust their fuel load if they want to start from the grid. They can refuel but if they do so they must start from the pitlane.