Will Kimi trounce Massa in '09? [Archive]

jjanicke

27th March 2009, 19:57

the P1 gap between Massa and Kimi was huge. Not sure why.

P2 seemed to be routine setup with both drivers very close, but way off Kimi's P1 time.

In the few short years with Ferrari Kimi has always done better than Massa at Oz, on race craft alone (barring Massa shunts).

As most of you know I'm a huge Kimi fan (although not Ferrari) and pray last year was a fluke and that Kimi will be back to form in '09.

UltimateDanGTR

27th March 2009, 20:04

Hopefully he will be. I've always been a Kimi Fan, even in a ferrari. I hope he sorts it out this year and fights for the championship. Such a good driver, If he has the confidence in himself, his ability and his car then he will be right up there.

Thats what he lacked last year.

jjanicke

27th March 2009, 20:07

Hopefully he will be. I've always been a Kimi Fan, even in a ferrari. I hope he sorts it out this year and fights for the championship. Such a good driver, If he has the confidence in himself, his ability and his car then he will be right up there.

Thats what he lacked last year.

Remember the jousting with Juan Pablo back in the Williams/Mclaren rivalry days. I can't remember more balls out side by side driving than that in the 2000's.

UltimateDanGTR

27th March 2009, 20:18

what about all those classic battles between Mansell and Senna? and Prost and Senna? and Mansell and Piquet? I wouldnt say the early 2000s was the best racing days although good (excpet most of time it was a fight for second behind Schumacher) there were just as good racing times in the 80s and early 90s. Although all drivers I mentioned did indeed driver for either Mclaren or Williams in their time-so I would say the most exciting races have always involved Williams and Mclaren in someway, with ferrari providing some entertainment as well down the years. (talking about the last 30 there)

Sonic

27th March 2009, 20:22

Yeah he'll wipe the floor with Massa.......for 10th!

Tazio

27th March 2009, 20:31

No!
It appears they are rather well matched!
Beat?
If I had to pick between the two, and make a bet, I'd say yes!
Trounce?
Not likely

jens

27th March 2009, 20:35

Trounce? It hasn't happened for the last two years, so don't see a reason, why should this occur now.

ioan

27th March 2009, 21:28

Do we have to read such crap every season?! :rolleyes:

Cozzie

27th March 2009, 21:51

I picked Massa to beat Kimi last year and copped a lot of flack and I'm going with Massa again this year. Although right now who knows whether it will be for a championship or not...

HenryM

27th March 2009, 22:04

based on P1 Kovalainen will "trounce" Hamilton...

RJL25

27th March 2009, 22:19

In a word - No

markabilly

28th March 2009, 01:20

No!
It appears they are rather well matched!
Beat?
If I had to pick between the two, and make a bet, I'd say yes!
Trounce?
Not likely

Not really well matched as I think that Massa does have a bit of the upper hand....unless Kimi finally gets his ritalin dosage just right, then look out....meanwhile they may all be trying to catch Nico and Rubens..... :eek:

jjanicke

28th March 2009, 02:09

what about all those classic battles between Mansell and Senna? and Prost and Senna? and Mansell and Piquet? I wouldnt say the early 2000s was the best racing days although good (excpet most of time it was a fight for second behind Schumacher) there were just as good racing times in the 80s and early 90s. Although all drivers I mentioned did indeed driver for either Mclaren or Williams in their time-so I would say the most exciting races have always involved Williams and Mclaren in someway, with ferrari providing some entertainment as well down the years. (talking about the last 30 there)

For sure those were great battles. I remember one particular nail bighter between Piquett and insert name here (I can't remember) at, I believe, Estoril.

But I was only referring to Kimi.

Do we have to read such crap every season?! :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: Why even reply?

Trounce? It hasn't happened for the last two years, so don't see a reason, why should this occur now.

He handily outdid Massa in '07, although Massa was the one with 2 years of Ferrari experience.

I think he can do it now, because the rules have changed enough to put them well on equal footing as it relates to the car and tires.

F1boat

28th March 2009, 05:26

As Jens said, beat him yes, trounce him - no.

ioan

28th March 2009, 07:14

:rolleyes: Why even reply?

Because stupid threads like this and their starters need a hard kick in their backside, that's why.

UltimateDanGTR

28th March 2009, 07:20

at this rate no Ferrari will be doing any trouncing!!!! :D

jens

28th March 2009, 08:36

He handily outdid Massa in '07, although Massa was the one with 2 years of Ferrari experience.

I think he can do it now, because the rules have changed enough to put them well on equal footing as it relates to the car and tires.

Before 2008 the same argumentation was used: Kimi is now comfortable with the car and the new rules (no TC) will suit him.

jjanicke

28th March 2009, 18:18

Before 2008 the same argumentation was used: Kimi is now comfortable with the car and the new rules (no TC) will suit him.

I think so too. Let's see what happens soon.

BDunnell

28th March 2009, 18:24

No, I don't think he will 'trounce' him. Will he even beat him over the whole season? Don't know. As has been said by others, history offers little or no evidence to support either assertion. Again, it will be fascinating to see how it plays out.

What I am sure of is that this is just as legitimate a topic of discussion as any other, and I don't understand the objections to it from some quarters, which would simply not arise were they in relation to the drivers of any other team.

pino

28th March 2009, 18:43

Because stupid threads like this and their starters need a hard kick in their backside, that's why.

ioan, if you don't like a thread...just ignore it !

jjanicke

28th March 2009, 18:44

No, I don't think he will 'trounce' him. Will he even beat him over the whole season? Don't know. As has been said by others, history offers little or no evidence to support either assertion. Again, it will be fascinating to see how it plays out.

There's plenty of evidence that Kimi can beat Massa. He was WDC not so long ago afterall.

A trouncing hasn't happened, yet! ;)

Go Kimi!

28th March 2009, 19:52

There's plenty of evidence that Kimi can beat Massa. He was WDC not so long ago afterall.

A trouncing hasn't happened, yet! ;)

Go Kimi!

And there is just as much evidence that Massa can beat Kimi..... 6 - 2 was the score last year, making it an aggregate 10 - 9 over the two seasons in favour of Massa.

Quite how anybody might get a potential Kimi trouncing of Massa following those Stats I don't quite know.

The only thing Kimi trounces Felipe on is fastest laps and pay packet.

BDunnell

28th March 2009, 20:06

And there is just as much evidence that Massa can beat Kimi..... 6 - 2 was the score last year, making it an aggregate 10 - 9 over the two seasons in favour of Massa.

Quite how anybody might get a potential Kimi trouncing of Massa following those Stats I don't quite know.

This is exactly what I was getting at. Coupled with Massa's flashes of absolute brilliance, and there's no way he's going to end up getting trounced, in my view.

jjanicke

29th March 2009, 08:43

embarrassing race for both.

Ferrari, Kimi and Massa have some work ahead of them. Even were shamed by Mclaren, with Hamilton no less. 18th on the starting grid.

Garry Walker

29th March 2009, 08:59

I dont think some people have understood that a driver like Massa cannot be trashed. This is not the guy he was at Sauber in 2002, when lets face it, he was a bit of an idiot.
He is a very very fast driver now, especially in qualifying.

F1boat

29th March 2009, 09:01

Kimi...
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/Darth_Sparhawk/Various%20Fantasy/not-classified/picard-facepalm.jpg

The whole team...
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/Darth_Sparhawk/Various%20Fantasy/not-classified/doublefacepalm.jpg

jjanicke

29th March 2009, 09:30

Kimi...
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/Darth_Sparhawk/Various%20Fantasy/not-classified/picard-facepalm.jpg

The whole team...
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/Darth_Sparhawk/Various%20Fantasy/not-classified/doublefacepalm.jpg

don't forget Massa.

F1boat

29th March 2009, 09:50

Massa IMO drove quite well. With this strategy and car, he did what he can.

DexDexter

29th March 2009, 10:17

Massa IMO drove quite well. With this strategy and car, he did what he can.

I don't know, his laptimes in a light car weren't that impressive compared to Kimi's heavier car.

ioan

29th March 2009, 10:23

don't forget Massa.

Massa what?!
Did an excellent start was faster than Kimi and didn't stuff it into the wall.

So, let's try again, Massa what?!

ioan

29th March 2009, 10:25

Massa IMO drove quite well. With this strategy and car, he did what he can.

JJ is just annoyed that Massa didn't stuff the car into the wall so that he can trash him and start the Kimi trouncing BS again! ;)

A.F.F.

29th March 2009, 10:49

Embarrasing race for both, Kimi and Heikki. I think this race showed the direction their career is heading to.

jens

29th March 2009, 10:53

I see, Kimi has continued his tricks (crashes into the wall) known from last year. All in all, pretty much a similar start to Ferrari's season like in 2008. But as we know, in '08 Ferrari came back strongly after the opening race and next circuits on the calendar should suit them better too.

While Hamilton made a lot of overtaking manouvers, then it didn't seem Ferrari benefitted much from KERS. They seemed to defend more often than actually be in a position to attack. Also at the start of the race they were blocked nicely on the straight and Ferraris failed to really gain.

ioan

29th March 2009, 10:56

Also at the start of the race they were blocked nicely on the straight and Ferraris failed to really gain.

I call BS on this one. Massa went from 6th to 3rd because he used KERS pretty well. And all that after being blocked by Ruben's catastrophic start.

jens

29th March 2009, 11:33

I call BS on this one. Massa went from 6th to 3rd because he used KERS pretty well. And all that after being blocked by Ruben's catastrophic start.

Well, he really didn't seem to make much on the straight, more like in fighting for position in the corner. If my memory served correctly, Massa was around 4th-5th, while entering the braking zone on the main straight (and one pos was already gained thanks to Barrichello). I may be wrong though if the replay of the start can be seen again. :)

rickos

29th March 2009, 15:08

So far, they look like female mud wrestlers.

ioan

29th March 2009, 16:12

Well, he really didn't seem to make much on the straight, more like in fighting for position in the corner. If my memory served correctly, Massa was around 4th-5th, while entering the braking zone on the main straight (and one pos was already gained thanks to Barrichello). I may be wrong though if the replay of the start can be seen again. :)

Sure he was only fifth when entering the first corner but that had to do with Rubens blocking the ones on the 4th and 6th spot on the grid, however Massa didn't overtook them under braking but rather on acceleration out of the first corner and on the backstraight.

jjanicke

29th March 2009, 17:46

Massa what?!
Did an excellent start was faster than Kimi and didn't stuff it into the wall.

So, let's try again, Massa what?!

Last I checked Massa stuffed it up and broke his suspension.

Massa blew it himself.

The Ferrari's were never going to win on setup or strategy and Massa could have brought home 3rd without much fanfare.