Mclaren back on pace... and then some

[jjanicke]

Put up the 3rd fastest time ever for a car built to '09 rules @ Jerez. Just behind.... you guessed it Brawn GP drivers Jenson and Rubens.

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/03/18/mclaren-pace-improves-significantly-at-jerez/

So were they sandbagging or was it the "silver bullet" that made all the difference? Last I read Whitmarsh stated it would be an iterative process to identify and fix the problem. This, almost instant, result does not seem very iterative. (http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/03/13/mclaren-in-emergency-talks-over-performance/)

I believe it was a little of both.

[DazzlaF1]

Put up the 3rd fastest time ever for a car built to '09 rules @ Jerez. Just behind.... you guessed it Brawn GP drivers Jenson and Rubens.

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/03/18/mclaren-pace-improves-significantly-at-jerez/

So were they sandbagging or was it the "silver bullet" that made all the difference? Last I read Whitmarsh stated it would be an iterative process to identify and fix the problem. This, almost instant, result does not seem very iterative. (http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/03/13/mclaren-in-emergency-talks-over-performance/)

I believe it was a little of both.
I would'nt read too much into that TBH, its an improvement yes but were they running light?

[jjanicke]

Let's put it this way.....

Only 1 other team put up faster times. And Mclaren made up, by far, the biggest single day gap.

I'm reading as much into their pace as I do with everyone other teams testing times. Mclaren look to be back on pace. Perhaps not ahead, but certainly not behind anymore!

[Storm]

McLaren were never going to be backmarkers...anyways all these times mean nothing..we will know in Melbourne qualifying.

[F1boat]

Let's put it this way.....

Only 1 other team put up faster times. And Mclaren made up, by far, the biggest single day gap.

I'm reading as much into their pace as I do with everyone other teams testing times. Mclaren look to be back on pace. Perhaps not ahead, but certainly not behind anymore!

jj, Kova is behind Jenson and Nico, not Jenson and Rubens. So two teams are ahead of them. I think that everyone who thought that McLaren are gonna be slowest on the grid was smoking something good. I'd love them to be backmakers, but alas, it was never to be. Nevertheless, this lap reveals that they are around the pace of Renault and Williams and we have to see where this stands compared to Ferrari, Toyota, BMW and Brawn GP. I will be surprised if Lewis wins Melbourne in normal conditions, however, I think that a solid points finish is possible. Also, do not forget that McLaren had solid pace at Jerez and brilliant first pace at Bahrain, but struggled in 2006. So we have to see and what happens in Oz, but the testing in Barcelona should not be dismissed too easily even if Kova clocks 1.17 today.

[ioan]

JJ going by your logic Nakajima will be WDC this year as he is going way faster than anyone did during these winter testing sessions.

[Mark]

McLaren were never going to be backmarkers...anyways all these times mean nothing..we will know in Melbourne qualifying.

Yep, unlike Honda, if McLaren have made a mistake they have the resources and personel to turn it around, fast.

[F1boat]

Yep, unlike Honda, if McLaren have made a mistake they have the resources and personel to turn it around, fast.

In 2004 and 2006 they failed to fix the car in time.

A "quick" time, after everybody bar Williams has left, on the fourth day the track has been used so is plentifully rubbered in, doesn't mean jack.

[ioan]

A "quick" time, after everybody bar Williams has left, on the fourth day the track has been used so is plentifully rubbered in, doesn't mean jack.

I don't think the track improved very much with only 2 cars running, but still Nakajima's fastest lap is around .5 seconds faster than whatever Brawn GP came up with and more than 1 second faster than the McLaren.

IMO nothing should be taken for sure before the Melbourne qualifying session is over.

I don't think the track improved very much with only 2 cars running, but still Nakajima's fastest lap is around .5 seconds faster than whatever Brawn GP came up with and more than 1 second faster than the McLaren.

IMO nothing should be taken for sure before the Melbourne qualifying session is over.

I meant "rubbered in" after four days of use, when Renault, Brawn, Williams & Mclaren were all doing 100+ laps each day. A track always gets quicker with that amount of use from day to day.

However, totally agree that Melbourne is the acid test. Actually, I'll rephrase that....testing is just a test, the actual exam starts in Melbourne.

[F1boat]

Kova - 1.17.9, still not as fast as Kazuki, but who'd think that the McLaren will be able to produce such laps.

[Bagwan]

I meant "rubbered in" after four days of use, when Renault, Brawn, Williams & Mclaren were all doing 100+ laps each day. A track always gets quicker with that amount of use from day to day.

However, totally agree that Melbourne is the acid test. Actually, I'll rephrase that....testing is just a test, the actual exam starts in Melbourne.

Nice to see you back , Tam .
The place wasn't the same without all the sensible ones here .

Melbourne won't be quite so rubbery , but remember , they still control the "stop engine" switch on the ECUs .

[Tazio]

Nice to see you back , Tam .
The place wasn't the same without all the sensible ones here ..
Already PM'ed him ;) Now play Fair (though not necessarily nice) :p :


but remember , they still control the "stop engine" switch on the ECUs .
Fool:
"He's mad that trusts in the tameness of a wolf, a horse's health,
a boy's love, or a whore's oath."


King Lear (III, vi, 19-21)

[Sleeper]

It appears that they have cured the problem that was effecting the car before, though they didnt half leave it to the last minute. Still, they've lost a whole winter of teating to fully ground the base set up and test new performance parts. Whatever they've gained, McLAren is still going to be on the back foot in Melbourne, but not backmarkers.

[RJL25]

guys, its called a qualifying simulation.... means nothing.

Infact all of winter testing means nothing, Brawn could very well come out in the mid pack in melbourne, i believe there is a very strong possibility that they have been posting flyers to try and get attention and sponsorship, just like Prost did a number of years ago, then come first race, slow as a wet week.

[tinchote]

guys, its called a qualifying simulation.... means nothing.

Infact all of winter testing means nothing, Brawn could very well come out in the mid pack in melbourne, i believe there is a very strong possibility that they have been posting flyers to try and get attention and sponsorship, just like Prost did a number of years ago, then come first race, slow as a wet week.

Same happened with Arrows several years ago.

[jens]

I said already yesterday that one quick lap doesn't mean McLaren is "back". Now despite a quali simulation Kovalainen got still beaten by half a second by who...?! Nakajima. Looking at current evidence it looks as though as Heikki and Lewis will have a lot of work to do to actually make it into Q3 at all.

[jens]

guys, its called a qualifying simulation.... means nothing.

Infact all of winter testing means nothing, Brawn could very well come out in the mid pack in melbourne, i believe there is a very strong possibility that they have been posting flyers to try and get attention and sponsorship, just like Prost did a number of years ago, then come first race, slow as a wet week.

I don't remember anyone expecting Prost to challenge for championships though. I guess you mean the year of 2001 - Ferrari and also McLaren were firm favourites throughout winter testing. Prost was maybe expected to qualify into Top10 and challenge for minor points - at best! A bit different compared to current "team to beat" in BrawnGP.

[MrJan]

I've given up paying attention to pre-season since realising that Honda were always quick in it but then turned up in Oz with a complete dog :D

[jjanicke]

JJ going by your logic Nakajima will be WDC this year as he is going way faster than anyone did during these winter testing sessions.

My only "logic" is that Mclaren don't appear to be as bad as they first did. Quite frankly they are now in the top half of the field.



A "quick" time, after everybody bar Williams has left, on the fourth day the track has been used so is plentifully rubbered in, doesn't mean jack.I don't think the track improved very much with only 2 cars running, but still Nakajima's fastest lap is around .5 seconds faster than whatever Brawn GP came up with and more than 1 second faster than the McLaren.

IMO nothing should be taken for sure before the Melbourne qualifying session is over.

I agree with Ioan on this one. The track is not going to improve by the margin Mclaren had to make up.

and

These are only testing times afterall.


Kova - 1.17.9, still not as fast as Kazuki, but who'd think that the McLaren will be able to produce such laps.

Exactly!


I said already yesterday that one quick lap doesn't mean McLaren is "back". Now despite a quali simulation Kovalainen got still beaten by half a second by who...?! Nakajima. Looking at current evidence it looks as though as Heikki and Lewis will have a lot of work to do to actually make it into Q3 at all.

What's wrong with Nakajima? He was never far off of his teammate in qualy. Now if you mean Williams, then look at everyone else. They didn't come close to what Williams put up either.


I don't remember anyone expecting Prost to challenge for championships though. I guess you mean the year of 2001 - Ferrari and also McLaren were firm favourites throughout winter testing. Prost was maybe expected to qualify into Top10 and challenge for minor points - at best! A bit different compared to current "team to beat" in BrawnGP.

"Team to beat?"????? I certainly don't think so. But I do believe they could surprise a few in the season opener.

[ioan]

My only "logic" is that Mclaren don't appear to be as bad as they first did. Quite frankly they are now in the top half of the field.

I agree, they look to be making good progress and they shouldn't find themselves on the bottom part of the grid.

[F1boat]

Personally as a guy who dislikes the current Macca team immensely (I liked very much Hakkinen in the 90ies and early 00s, though), I NEVER thought that they will be last on Melbourne. I was sure and I am sure that they will enter Q2 and have a good shot on Q3. However, I hope and my hope I think is not vain, that they are slower than Ferrari and BMW and maybe Renault and Williams. About Brawn GP, I don't know, but I will be delighted if they really are the team to beat. It will be a faerie tale come true.

[Mark]

Well my ideal situation would be Brawn to be leading, McLaren very close behind and the others very close behind them. After all we want the cars to be very close in performance as that's what makes it interesting!

[ioan]

Well my ideal situation would be Brawn to be leading, McLaren very close behind and the others very close behind them. After all we want the cars to be very close in performance as that's what makes it interesting!

I'd rather have Williams as 2nd best team and McLaren together with the big teams playing catch-up.
But I doubt that Brawn will be up front.

[ArrowsFA1]

But I doubt that Brawn will be up front.
Not long now until we see :s mokin:

[jens]

"Team to beat?"????? I certainly don't think so. But I do believe they could surprise a few in the season opener.

"Team to beat" was most likely said in relation to "general expectations". ;) But I think it's worth to take them into consideration in fighting for high results in Australia.

Based on current evidence I'd say that if I start watching the Australian Grand Prix qualifying, I'd expect Jarno, Robert and Felipe to fight out the pole position with probably Jenson and Rubens having their say too.

As for quick laptimes, then didn't McLaren smash a lap record during pre-season testing back in 2004 too? Despite that they weren't higher than midfield in Oz. So to rate a laptime as a relevant indicator of good performance, other top competitors are needed too on the same day for a comparison. The only advantage I see for Williams and McLaren is that unlike the top group they have had some extra test days at the end pre-season testing period. But I still expect them to be a bit behind the Top4.

[F1boat]

What I want to see is Brawn GP at front, followed by Ferrari and Renault. I can't predict what will happen, though.

[Bagwan]

Lewis Hamilton: “There is no better place to begin the FIA Formula 1 World Championship than in Australia. The weather is fantastic, the facilities are excellent and the people of Melbourne make us all feel extremely welcome. Most importantly, everyone arrives with an air of enthusiasm and expectation. Despite weeks of winter testing, it’s still difficult to know exactly who has the best package, and finding out over the weekend in Albert Park is always fascinating. Perhaps Vodafone McLaren Mercedes doesn’t come to Melbourne with the same prospects to challenge at the front that we experienced in both 2007 and ’08, but the whole team will be working tirelessly to help us move back to the front.”

Heikki Kovalainen: “I had a great race in Melbourne last year on my debut for Vodafone McLaren Mercedes. It’s a track I love – a circuit that you really have to attack with a lot of enthusiasm if you are to get the best from the car. The fast esses at the back of the circuit are probably the most demanding corners – getting it just right is a hugely satisfying feeling. Elsewhere, I enjoy the ‘back to school’ feeling of the new season – you meet up with everybody, share your stories from the winter and look forward to another good season. Everybody in our team is really motivated and, while we probably won’t start the season as favourites, we will work around the clock to get back there.”

Martin Whitmarsh, team principal, Vodafone McLaren Mercedes: “We go into the start of the 2009 season fully aware that we do not yet have the technical package that will allow our drivers to fight at the front. In Formula 1, there is nowhere to hide: that’s what makes our sport so demanding and yet so endlessly fascinating. And as a team that goes grand prix racing with the expectation of winning races and challenging for world championships, we therefore go to Melbourne with realistic expectations. Nonetheless, we begin our season with huge determination to re-assert ourselves at the front and we will not rest for a moment until we have done that. Most importantly, we haven’t forgotten how to win.”

Norbert Haug, Vice-president, Mercedes-Benz Motorsport: "Melbourne is the city where – 12 years ago – McLaren-Mercedes achieved their first of 58 grand prix wins since then. After a total of four victories at Albert Park, this time it may not be possible to repeat Lewis’s success of last year. Considering our test results we will not be as competitive at the season opener as we intend to be, and so I do not expect a qualifying result at the front of the grid. However, we will all work hard to return to the front as soon as possible and in Melbourne everybody in the team is fully motivated to do everything to achieve the best possible result."



Sounds like either a verbal sandbag , or they really are in deep doo doo .

[Robinho]

Lewis Hamilton: “There is no better place to begin the FIA Formula 1 World Championship than in Australia. The weather is fantastic, the facilities are excellent and the people of Melbourne make us all feel extremely welcome. Most importantly, everyone arrives with an air of enthusiasm and expectation. .

has anyone seen Happly Gilmour - is Lewis starting to sound like Shooter McGavin?

i seriously expect him to come out with such pearls as;

"you guys must be putting something in the water, everytime i'm here its gets harder to leave" and

"seriously though the real winner is the City of ........"

[jjanicke]

"...
Based on current evidence I'd say that if I start watching the Australian Grand Prix qualifying, I'd expect Jarno, Robert and Felipe to fight out the pole position with probably Jenson and Rubens having their say too.

....

Jarno?

I'd agree with Robert and Felipe, and would add Kimi, Nick, and Fernando to the mix.

[jens]

Jarno?

I'd agree with Robert and Felipe, and would add Kimi, Nick, and Fernando to the mix.

What's wrong with Jarno? Toyota is quick and JT is a well-known qualifying expert. I didn't add KR or NH, because I mentioned the better qualifiers of the Top3 teams. Fernando I doubt - I think he'll be stronger in the race, but won't fight for the win.

[Valve Bounce]

How about the Red Bull Boys? Will the be charging?

[jens]

How about the Red Bull Boys? Will the be charging?

Red Bull has been a bit in the shadow in recent tests, but in the earlier phases of winter testing it looked like RB5 could have at least some serious one-lap pace, although overall consistency in longer stints and reliability are a bit unclear. Considering that both Webber and Vettel (6th in Q2 in '08) are quick at Albert Park, I'd expect both drivers to reach Q3. ;)

[ioan]

Red Bull has been a bit in the shadow in recent tests, but in the earlier phases of winter testing it looked like RB5 could have at least some serious one-lap pace, although overall consistency in longer stints and reliability are a bit unclear. Considering that both Webber and Vettel (6th in Q2 in '08) are quick at Albert Park, I'd expect both drivers to reach Q3. ;)

The whole testing was unclear, and just because journos cherry picked a few fast laps out of the bag it doesn't mean squat.
Keep your expectations low and you might find yourself thrilled in one weeks time!

[Valve Bounce]

The whole testing was unclear, and just because journos cherry picked a few fast laps out of the bag it doesn't mean squat.
Keep your expectations low and you might find yourself thrilled in one weeks time!

I think that cars with KERS and the resultant higher CG as a result may in the beginning have a slight disadvantage over the guys using well placed ballast during quals. BUT in a race where overtaking can be difficult, cars with KERS might have the advantage in keeping ballast cars behind, then accelerating away from them out of corners using KERS. I know next to nothing about KERS or the advantages from using it, but I suppose once the drivers get used to them during races, we may see where they come into the fore.

[ioan]

That seems logic to me! :up:

[Ari]

I've given up paying attention to pre-season since realising that Honda were always quick in it but then turned up in Oz with a complete dog :D

hehehehe

It's funny. Last couple years when your'e at the track.... you can always hear the Honda coming cause it sounds like it's f***ed and should be looking for pit lane!