Let the "cheating" begin !!!

[RaceFanStan]

from jayski's.com :
#55 manifold confiscated: during pre-qualifying inspection,
the intake manifold of the #55 NAPA Toyota of Michael Waltrip was confiscated by NASCAR,
it didn't meet specifications and the team had to install another one. (SPEED's NASCAR Live)(2-11-2007)

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/orn/00.gif

[harvick#1]

good ole mikey

[trumperZ06]

:dozey: Latest info on MW's # 55, according to Fox Sports,

NA$CAR's impounded the whole car !!!

An "unspecified substance" was found in the intake manifold...


One garage source speculated... the "fuel" was Sterno !

[BenRoethig]

They had to try something, the Camrys aren't that fast on their own.

[CREWDAWG]

Don't stop there... Matt Keneth and K Khane qual times have been disallowed ( 1930 hrs US cST) due to "use illegal of speed enhance device". MW car was indeed impounded too. Not really a spec issue but why some type of oil was found inside the manifold.
Yeap... silly season is here.

[RaceFanStan]

from nascar.com :
More on Matt Kenseth & Kasey Kahne qualifying times disallowed ...
the two cars were found to have "unapproved aerodynamic devices."

Jim Hunter said the #17 Ford & #9 Dodge would be placed at the back of Thursday's second Gatorade Duel.
Hunter said NASCAR will consider the possibility of future fines,
suspensions and penalties against the two teams for the violation.

Hunter said both cars had "holes in places were they would normally be sealed and these were not."
Kenseth's was reportedly in a wheel well.
Hunter did not specify the location of the holes in Kahne's car.

[RaceFanStan]

from nascar.com :
NASCAR wasn't done acting on what Waltrip & his employees called "oil" in the manifold.
The #55 team replaced the manifold and Waltrip qualified before NASCAR seized the car.

"That car is impounded and we don't know how long we'll keep it,"
NASCAR vice president for corporate communications Jim Hunter said.
"Our inspection team was not comfortable that that was oil."

Hunter said that Waltrip's 24th place qualifying speed was currently valid,
and that the completion of NASCAR's analysis would determine whether or not the car could be used later this week.

[RaceFanStan]

oops / got booted / posted / was already posted :laugh:

[IMSAFAN1]

I can't blame those people for trying to cheat.....With Nascar and their "we'll write the rule book on a race by race basis" It's no wonder people every year try something. Again with Nascar and their backwoods mentality..they should really try to concentrate on other things such as trying to make their new cash cow abit more racey. Toyota isn't going to like the fact that someone is going to tell them how to build their cars and they have never heard of any other series where they take someone's car away for a rules violation. It doesn't matter...all they'll do is is put a "on call" sign on top and have the thing driving around in New York city.

[Scheckterfan54]

A great man once said..." If ya aint cheatin, ya aint trying." Nowhere is this more true than in Daytona Speedweeks...and oh yea, baseball!!!

[Hoss Ghoul]

I can't blame those people for trying to cheat.....With Nascar and their "we'll write the rule book on a race by race basis" It's no wonder people every year try something. Again with Nascar and their backwoods mentality..they should really try to concentrate on other things such as trying to make their new cash cow abit more racey. Toyota isn't going to like the fact that someone is going to tell them how to build their cars and they have never heard of any other series where they take someone's car away for a rules violation. It doesn't matter...all they'll do is is put a "on call" sign on top and have the thing driving around in New York city.


Nevermind.

[blakebeatty]

as per some dude on the racingone messageboard:

NASCAR's Jim Hunter just announced that the Daytona 500 qualifying times for Matt Kenseth and Kasey Kahne have been disallowed for unapproved aerodynamic modifications. Fines and/or penalties to follow. Rather than a hefty fine, say, $75,000 and 50 NEXTEL Cup points, or even send the crew chief home for a few races, NASCAR might consider a new approach. Withdraw the automatic top 35 qualification for Daytona and additional events. That way, Kenseth and Kahne would have to race their way in to the Daytona 500 field in the Gatorade Duel. It would also open the door to two additional drivers without the exemption. With drivers of the calibre of Kenseth and Kahne, that might not sound very drastic. But, say, if they got caught up in a crash -- or even hung out in the draft -- sending them home from the Daytona 500 would really make a point for NASCAR -- both this weekend, and in the future.

[djarumdudley]

it's not surprising to see the 55 team attempt something "outside the box", but i don't get it with the 9 and 17. at this point i'd say those are the flagship cars for Evernham and Roush respectively. why wouldn't they try something like that on another car in their team. losing the top 35 exemption would be an excellent penalty for any cheating situation, Nascar would send a serious message to teams by levying a penalty such as that.

[Smilieangel489]

it's not surprising to see the 55 team attempt something "outside the box", but i don't get it with the 9 and 17. at this point i'd say those are the flagship cars for Evernham and Roush respectively. why wouldn't they try something like that on another car in their team. losing the top 35 exemption would be an excellent penalty for any cheating situation, Nascar would send a serious message to teams by levying a penalty such as that.

I don't see why the 17 and 9 would cheat either. It should be interesting to see what they decide to do. They said it was as bad as what Chad did last year, so they should get the exact same penalty as he did imo. The only problem is that they will want to make an example of them at the start of the year and it could be worse.

[CREWDAWG]

More on subject again.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/nascar/2007-02-11-notebook_x.htm

You can beat neither Crew chiefs will be around come eace day....

[RaceFanStan]

Matt Kenseth & Kasey Kahne WILL race in the Daytona 500 even if they fail to finish in the Duel race.
BOTH drivers are in cars that are IN the top 35 in Owner's Points.
They are guaranteed starting spots no matter where they finish in their Duel race.
The bottom line is that they both WILL race in the Daytona 500 ! :D

[Erki]

Wait, no rule violation from #48? :s hock: :p :

[kelloggs5TLfan]

Wait, no rule violation from #48? :s hock: :p :

A little to early. :D

[Sparky1329]

I don't see why the 17 and 9 would cheat either. It should be interesting to see what they decide to do. They said it was as bad as what Chad did last year, so they should get the exact same penalty as he did imo. The only problem is that they will want to make an example of them at the start of the year and it could be worse.

I don't understand the #9 and #17 either. I agree with you on the penalties too.

[jslone]

Well,the thing I like about Nascar so far is the they are not playing any favorites,you get caught,pay the price,now as of when I am writing this post no penalty's have been dispenced right?

[dont_be_jack]

Well,the thing I like about Nascar so far is the they are not playing any favorites,you get caught,pay the price,now as of when I am writing this post no penalty's have been dispenced right?


That's right.

[Mark in Oshawa]

It is always fun to see the way crew chiefs try to beat NASCAR. Why do you think they have Mr. Pemberton now in charge of finding these guys? Or Gary Nelson before him? No one is better at finding "cheaters" than a reformed "cheater". Of course, I just call it creative interpreatation of the rules!!!

[ms0362]

NASCAR's Jim Hunter just announced that the Daytona 500 qualifying times for Matt Kenseth and Kasey Kahne have been disallowed for unapproved aerodynamic modifications. Fines and/or penalties to follow. Rather than a hefty fine, say, $75,000 and 50 NEXTEL Cup points, or even send the crew chief home for a few races, NASCAR might consider a new approach. Withdraw the automatic top 35 qualification for Daytona and additional events. That way, Kenseth and Kahne would have to race their way in to the Daytona 500 field in the Gatorade Duel.

I don't agree with this. Double standards against what Johnson did last year. Fine them and suspend the crew chiefs.

[BobbyC]

Here goes!

9 Team:
Kenny Francis: $50,000 and four races
Kasey Kahne: 50 points
Ray Evernham: 50 points

10 Team:
Rodney Childres: $25,000 and two races
Scott Riggs: 25 points
James Roccoco: 25 points

17 Team:
Robbie Reiser: $50,000 and four races
Matt Kenseth: 50 points
Jack Roush: 50 points

19 Team:
Josh Browne: $25,000 and two races
Elliott Sadler: 25 points
Ray Evernham: 25 points

The situation with the #55 car has yet to be resolved following further inspection of the manifold in question.

[harvick#1]

wow four teams have - points heading into the race :p :

but I would've liked to see Nascar have the balls to take away their automatic bid to get in and have to earn their way back in on the 150's.

They cheated, they should get punished, now time for the backlash

[oldhippie]

i bet cellphones in the pits will be busy on raceday
nascar may suspend the cc but they cant stop cc communications

[call_me_andrew]

I don't see why the 17 and 9 would cheat either. It should be interesting to see what they decide to do. They said it was as bad as what Chad did last year, so they should get the exact same penalty as he did imo. The only problem is that they will want to make an example of them at the start of the year and it could be worse.

Everyone's cheating in NASCAR! It's just a matter of to what extent.

You know how people go on and on about how the engineers have taken over the sport? This is how they've done it. If nascar says the limit is 1, than the engineers have to make everthing 1.000000001 and see if they get caught. If they don't, they try for 1.00000001, then 1.0000001, and so on.

There's no better way to start a season than with 4 drivers with negative points.

[Jonesi]

Announcement:
http://motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=243362

[CREWDAWG]

They always have said, if you don't get caught, tou ain't tri'n hard nough!

lol

[IMSAFAN1]

these crew chiefs need to be creative with their cheating.....they should read some history on Smokey Yunick..now there's a man who knew where the grey area was.

[trumperZ06]

these crew chiefs need to be creative with their cheating.....they should read some history on Smokey Yunick..now there's a man who knew where the grey area was.

;) YEP !!!

[Mark in Oshawa]

Smokey is worthy of a thread all his own. He was the Master Cheater. What is more, he thought of ways of beating the system that were way beyond any normal imagination. Tricks such as a Chevelle he arrived at Daytona with that was basically 90% of a regular car in size yet looked "stock". Putting lead shot inside the roll cage, and realizing the lead once the car was on the apron rolling out to qualify. Smokey had so many "cheats" that it was easier just to ban him.


I suspect a book would be interesting with great stories of cheating in racing. Smokey would be worthy of a large chapter to be sure, but Roger Penske used to bend the rules a lot in his younger days, Gary Nelson was one of the greats (he was the one with about a gallon or two extra of fuel in an extra long fuel line running through the car), and god knows Maurice Petty probably had a few tricks. Cheating in racing is not unique to NASCAR, but it is most famous in NASCAR, and it is the one thing that I never tire of reading about.

[IMSAFAN1]

Mark:
there is a great book on him...I met Vic Eldebrock JR. at a vintage event. He just purchased a Smoky Yunick Trans-am Camaro. He said it took a better part of a week sorting out all the things he found in the car. He found fuel lines in the roll cage. Cheating is in all motorsport...I was with Dick Barbour racing at LeMans when he had his class win taken away because of a fuel cell that was 1 litre too big. over a course of 24 hours it was ruled that we would have saved one pit stop. As long there is a rule book they'll cheat. The good ones are the ones who don't get caught. As long as they have this rule of the top 35 getting in the show these crew chiefs are going to keep on doing things. Get rid of the top 35 getting in. These guys should earn their way in. I look up to Smokey right now and say " show these guys the right way of doing things the old way"

[Mark in Oshawa]

IMSAfan, Smokey wasn't only a "cheater" but he was a very creative guy with unique ideas. Pontiac flew him up from a NASCAR weekend for a few hours to look at a Trans-Am entry that kept cooking its differentials. He flew up, looked over the diffs, told the guys to drill holes in the floor of the trunk above them, and told them to dump ice in there at the start of every stint. Damn if the diff's didn't survive. Smokey figured if you couldn't solve a problem by legitimate means in 20 minutes, you did what you had to. In his minds, you were not cheating if you didn't get caught.

Of course, he still got mad when caught. Apparnetly NASCAR found a bunch of things they didn't like at tech once. The cars are weighed "dry" with no gas in it and then inspected. He didn't like what they were telling him, so he hopped in this car with no gas in it and drove off telling them he would retire the entry if they didn't like his car. I think he got more through the tech inspectors than they could even dream of....

[Hoss Ghoul]

The "Unfair Advantage" Camaro is my favorite cheater car/story. Acid dipped panels, large fuel loads VIA freezing, etc....great stuff.

And that story about Yunick driving the car off with no gas, that's an all time great, along with the Chevelle.


Back on topic, tomorrow should be real interesting, NASCAR is really taking their time on this Waltrip issue. I think the penalty(assuming the car was illegal) is going to be big.

[jslone]

We all hope that the crew chiefs will learn and try not to cheat but one never knows.I am glad that Nascar has the balls to put a hefty fine on cheaters,meaning that they are not playing favorites.

[e2mtt]

They never tell you very much about the infractions. In Kenseth's case, it sounds like a cap wasn't secured, that possible gave an aero advantage.

On the Dodges, I would venture to say that the Evernham thought is was something OK, as all 3 cars had the same issue.

Stupid NASCAR regulations.

By the way, hi everybody, I'm back. Racing season returns.

[BobbyC]

55-David Hyder has reportedly been ejected, and the team is still working on the car. No penalties for the driver yet but rumours of a one-year suspension are imminent for crew chief and potential driver suspension.

If such happens, there will be an appeal of driver suspension and or crew chief suspension (to cut penalty).

[klm-607]

Waltrip's crew chief, VP escorted from garage
Lee Spencer / FOXSports.com
Posted: 13 minutes ago *(A little Anti-Toyota bias perhaps?? - K.M.)

DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. - Although NASCAR is expected to make an announcement this afternoon regarding the status of Michael Waltrip Racing, here is what FOXSports.com knows so far.

NASCAR vice president of competition, Robin Pemberton, has escorted Michael Waltrip Racing vice president of competition Bobby Kennedy from the garage. Ty Norris, general manager of MWR, said the back-up car hadn't been through inspection a second time, and the team isn't sure if it will practice today. Michael Waltrip has returned to the garage area.
At 1:45 p.m. ET, NASCAR stopped the inspection process on the primary car (No. 55) of Michael Waltrip, and shortly before 2 p.m. ET, Waltrip and Michael Waltrip Racing vice president of competition Bobby Kennedy left the garage area in a golf cart after meeting with NASCAR officials in the Nextel Cup hauler.

Since 7:30 this morning, NASCAR officials had been disassembling the entire fuel system of the car. A back-up car was brought out from David Reutimann's No. 00 hauler to be decaled for Waltrip to race.

The organization felt that Reutimann's back-up car was more solid than Waltrip's, but the car did not pass tech inspection. The crew is working on the car to take it through inspection again, but it's not likely that it will be ready for Waltrip to practice before the session ends at 2:55 p.m. ET.

However, as the cars rolled off at 12:00 p.m. for first practice, Waltrip's secondary car had not left the garage, let alone been through the inspection process. But it was the understanding of MWR's VP of competition Bobby Kennedy that the car would eventually get on the track for practice, but the process was slow. As of noon, Kennedy said that No. 55 crew chief David Hyder had not left the building, but during the second practice of the day, Jeff Hammond reported on SPEED that Hyder had been escorted from the garage. The word on Hyder was an indefinite suspension appeared imminent.

Michael Waltrip Racing met with both NASCAR CEO Brian France and NASCAR president Mike Helton Wednesday morning and was told to expect an announcement later Wednesday afternoon.

Gossip in the garage revolved around two possible scenarios for Waltrip and the No. 55 team: A) a 6-8 week suspension for the No. 55 car and B) the possibility of Waltrip racing the No. 32 car with his sponsor's decals. Neither theory could be confirmed at this time.

[muggle not]

All indications are that the 55 team is going to take a big hit. Rumors are that Toyota are now having second thoughts on whether or not they went with the right team, ie, Waltrip.

[harvick#1]

why would anyone want to go with Waltrip. :s its a ticking time bomb

[Sparky1329]

All indications are that the 55 team is going to take a big hit. Rumors are that Toyota are now having second thoughts on whether or not they went with the right team, ie, Waltrip.


What a shame. :rolleyes:

[CREWDAWG]

WE ARE ALL WRONG AND UNFAIR! It's "bending the rule book" or "adapting and overcoming the force" LOL

[harvick#1]

Mikey docked 100 driver and owner points :eek:

the CC is also I think suspended indefiently along with the VP of MWR

where was this case last year with Johnsons team :rolleyes:

[Hoss Ghoul]

Johnson's infraction wasn't as bad, and they ratcheted up the penalty for similar violations this year.

Waltrip hit one of the unholy trifecta's in cheating. Fuel, Tires, Engine. The only thing worse in the NASCAR world is traction control.

[harvick#1]

the sad thing is Mike may have - points still 5 weeks into the season :laugh:

[CREWDAWG]

MW was docked driver 100 pts, must qual 21st or higher to make race and car (I think) has been through tech finally. R. Pemberton was heard saying..."Strange substance did NOT originate from the engine but the fuel lines". OOps!

Teams was booted from garage for the night and must wait till AM to work on it as of 1806 hrs CST. News folks are going nuts trying to catch up on news...

[jslone]

Good.Nascar is doing the right thing.

[BenRoethig]

All indications are that the 55 team is going to take a big hit. Rumors are that Toyota are now having second thoughts on whether or not they went with the right team, ie, Waltrip.

I wouldn't be surprised if Cal Wells has majority ownership of the team soon. Whether Mikey knew anything or not he's left a major blackmark on Toyota.

[Sparky1329]

And Toyota is not too thrilled about it either.

[BobbyC]

Mikey is going one step further: Fire the offender. Waltrip is reportedly ready to fire David Hyder for this ruse. But $100,000 isn't the biggest penalty when you consider the price of racing in 1983 for a $35,000 / 104 point fine for Richard Petty in 1983.

That is tougher than tough -- Peter Sospenzo was not fired in 2000 after an similar fuel violation at 2000 DieHard 500 qualifying. The #12 Penske-Kranefuss team with Jeremy Mayfield driving was allowed to keep pole from Talladega, but the illegal fuel led to a 151-point penalty AND four week suspension.

The move to fire Hyder is a smart move, since he is saying, "You break the rules, I'll fire you."

[e2mtt]

I haven't found this anywhere, are they saying this was some kind of octane/power booster, or slippery lubricant, or what?

[Jonesi]

On ESPN's Nascar Now they seemed to think it was Sterno (which will boost performance) and that it was in the fuel system/tank. That got me wondering how hard would it be for some disgruntle employee or other person to slip in in the tank knowing it would smell enough to be caught?

[jslone]

Jet fuel is also another speculation being used.

[harvick#1]

maybe it was deisel, if it worked at Lemans, why not Daytona

[CREWDAWG]

According to ESPN coverage late yesterday, They won't say what type it was, not right now at least but thay may change today. I wondering if it was something that "attached" to the fuel system and injected some type of booster. The inspectors tore the whole fuel system out of the car yesterady. I believe also that MW is to put out a press release today sometime.

[CREWDAWG]

Letest change for Vegas race.

http://www.speedtv.com/myraceday/

[CREWDAWG]

A little more info maybe and that helps. I suspect there will be much news flying around today:

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/nextel/nascar/35387/

[dont_be_jack]

Jet fuel is also another speculation being used.

Jet fuel has been ruled out by NASCAR. They said so when announcing the penalties for MWR.

[luvracin]

Jet fuel has been ruled out by NASCAR. They said so when announcing the penalties for MWR.


I read that it was an "Oxygenate" that is also commonly found in jet fuel.

Jet fuel is similar to kerosene. Kerosene could be used to clean fuel component parts.

Toyota is a new manufacturer, did they use a supplier for fuel lines that didn't realise??

Did they really cheat or did they just F-up?

[dont_be_jack]

If this was a Toyota issue it would've been found in other Toyota cars - so far it hasn't.

If it was a MWR issue, it would've been found in other cars - it hasn't been yet.

This is a #55 issue and they got caught trying to cheat. I know that I've read it's not jet fuel - could be Sterno, but I doubt how much that would've helped as fuel additive - but NASCAR is remaining pretty silent on what it is as they're still running tests and are actually taking the car back to their shops to test it even more.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Waltrip's boys did something to that motor. There is a lot not explained but it will come out in the wash, but Mikey's squeaky clean image is swirling around in circles as the toilet flushes. This is a HUGE black eye and you can bet some people in TRD are pissed right now.

[dont_be_jack]

Waltrip's boys did something to that motor. There is a lot not explained but it will come out in the wash, but Mikey's squeaky clean image is swirling around in circles as the toilet flushes. This is a HUGE black eye and you can bet some people in TRD are pissed right now.

TRD has said in a press release and in talking to the other Toyota teams that MWR has used 2 of their 3 strikes with just this incident and that if they do something like this again they will lose all support.

[e2mtt]

I imagine Toyota is happy with Waltrip again... all 3 of his cars are in the 500. Some very impressive driving by Mikey.

[dont_be_jack]

I imagine Toyota is happy with Waltrip again... all 3 of his cars are in the 500. Some very impressive driving by Mikey.

Especially after Red Bull isn't going to be in it at all.

[Lee Roy]

An excellent point was brought up on another Forum...many have claimed that Toyota will know everything going on about their team...even suggestions that engines would be off limits...if true they must have had prior knowledge about the Mikey incident...

[dont_be_jack]

An excellent point was brought up on another Forum...many have claimed that Toyota will know everything going on about their team...even suggestions that engines would be off limits...if true they must have had prior knowledge about the Mikey incident...

Not necessarily. I suspect there was plenty of time where someone could add something to the manifold behind Toyota's backs.

[Sparky1329]

I imagine Toyota is happy with Waltrip again... all 3 of his cars are in the 500. Some very impressive driving by Mikey.

He was real impressive when he spun Jr.

[SOD]

Gentlemen,

Start your cheating

[e2mtt]

He was real impressive when he spun Jr.

Mikey is an idiot, and usually a horrible driver. I was just glad to see that the spin didn't hurt Jr. any. (Maybe it cost him 1 spot.)

[dont_be_jack]

Mikey is an idiot, and usually a horrible driver. I was just glad to see that the spin didn't hurt Jr. any. (Maybe it cost him 1 spot.)

I wouldn't say that he's a horrible driver, but he's not consistent with his driving. Some tracks he excels at - like Daytona - but others he's terrible. And you can't base anything off of last season. I'll stand up for him for last season as last year was a total transition year. He was using cars that he was going to use for one season only and attempting to keep in the races while looking ahead to his Toyota for the next season.

[nigelred5]

Every team in NASCAR cheats. Hell, every team in F1 cheats. The good ones have smarter guys reading the rules and don't get caught.

[tstran17_88]

He was real impressive when he spun Jr.
Equally as impressive was when Joonyer took out half the field in the Shootout! :p :

[Sandfly]

I still don't see why CHEATERS are allowed in the race when others ( perhaps who just haven't been caught yet ) are sent home. Untill that happens the cheating will get worse. Great driver/team or great CHEATERS???