Formula One On Oval Race Tracks?

[cynisca]

What do you think of that?

I think it would be fantastic to see/watch the Formula One cars on oval circuits. I bet you'll always see a lot of overtakes. :p : It would be a new experience for the drivers and constructors of course.

I mean we have in Europe some oval tracks, EuroSpeedway (Germany) and Rockingham (England), which was used by the IndyCar Series in 2001 and 2003.

[rob01]

well... i think it would be... yeah it wouldnt work.

[inimitablestoo]

I'd love to see it - but it won't happen, mainly because the cars aren't designed to cope with oval-style crashes. Mind you, the way they're chucking in the surprises at the moment, who's to say the FIA won't revisit their mid-1993 proposals of oval races, some of 500 miles? It wouldn't be the daftest thing they've done this week...

[UltimateDanGTR]

formula 1-on oval? Erm, just my opinion, but no thanks. isnt that what IndyCar is for?

[Nikki Katz]

I'd love to see it - but it won't happen, mainly because the cars aren't designed to cope with oval-style crashes. Mind you, the way they're chucking in the surprises at the moment, who's to say the FIA won't revisit their mid-1993 proposals of oval races, some of 500 miles? It wouldn't be the daftest thing they've done this week...
Sadly I think we're more likely to see 50 mile races than 500 mile.

F1 cars aren't built for ovals. Ovals are dangerous enough in the IRL, where the cars are built to withstand those sorts of accidents. But anyway, due to all the different constructors the field would be very spread out, with less scope for driver mistakes there'd be little racing.

[blito]

Actually i wouldn`t mind seeing two or three such events each year - it would add a bit of variety! Too many modern-style F1 circuits are too much alike IMO and what F1 needs circuit-wise is variety!
Mind you, like has already been said, i wouldnt fancy crashing at a high speed oval in an F1 car!

[rob01]

people say they find F1 boring, a procession, not enough overtaking ect ect. i think F1 on ovals is the last thing F1 would need to make it more exciting.

i'd rather see an F1 race were they all have to tow a caravan!

[Somebody]

Never mind the crashing itself - the tyres, transmission, etc aren't designed for it. You'd get that USGP over & over until they spent a metric crapton of cash on oval-specific cars, engines & tyres.

[big_sw2000]

people say they find F1 boring, a procession, not enough overtaking ect ect. i think F1 on ovals is the last thing F1 would need to make it more exciting.

i'd rather see an F1 race were they all have to tow a caravan!
To win the F1 world championship, the driver should be the best at everyting.
Normal Racetracks.
Street tracks
Ovals
Airport tracks.
And maybe a Caravan Race.
And what about a mixed surface race, like rallycross.

[MrJan]

S****

[methanolHuffer]

Current ovals are boring and featureless.

If they built an oval that had run-offs instead of walls and nearly no banking, then it might be interesting to watch.

Maybe a hairpin on one end and a parabolica-like sweeper at the other.

Pie in the sky anyway - nobody will be building new ovals for a while.

[emporer_k]

I'd rather f1 kept off ovals.

[Rollo]

F1 cars on an oval would be terrible...

...for a start they'd tear up the cricket pitch :D

[woody2goody]

F1 cars on an oval would be terrible...

...for a start they'd tear up the cricket pitch :D

He he he. Would be funny if the cricketers were playing in the middle. Sixes could prove problematic for Lewis and co...

I like the idea of a more unique 'oval with tight corners or one tight and one fast.

I'd love F1 to compete on a 'Norisring-style' circuit; short, tight but fast in places. Shorter lap times and less corners would lead to good racing IMO.

[LiamM]

Never mind the crashing itself - the tyres, transmission, etc aren't designed for it. You'd get that USGP over & over until they spent a metric crapton of cash on oval-specific cars, engines & tyres.

Why would they need money to be spent on tyres? Bridgestone already have the technology

[call_me_andrew]

I'm glad someone brought this up (even though I suggested the same thing last September), because it brings me to an interesting fact I discovered about the FIA.

There's a very strict grading system in place for road courses, but there is no grading in place for ovals. They just give a pass or fail grade to the cars that wish to race on them. Fomula One cars have stricter crash test requirements than IndyCars, but IndyCars are the ones racing on ovals. Things like this lead me to believe the FIA focuses too much on F1.

[Dank Bank]

I would like to see Le Mans cars run the Milwaukee mile as well. Then we can watch Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal play Ping Pong.

[Tazio]

What do you think of that?


Sucks dude :dozey:

[wmcot]

Sounds awful! Oval track racing is boring as it is! Having said that, I expect the FIA will have ovals for the 2010 season...

[LeonBrooke]

Oval racing has its place - in the USA, with NASCAR. Nowhere else. However, racing on proper circuits built in the infield of ovals, that's cool.

[blito]

To win the F1 world championship, the driver should be the best at everyting.
Normal Racetracks.
Street tracks
Ovals
Airport tracks.
And maybe a Caravan Race.
And what about a mixed surface race, like rallycross.

well said that man!
and hey, what about we put lights on F1 cars and run the Le Mans 24 hours to F1 regs!
now hows about that! the indy500, Monaco and Le mans all in the space of 6 weeks! there`d be no need for any other form of racing, just F1 and its feeder series.

[big_sw2000]

Oval racing has its place - in the USA, with NASCAR. Nowhere else. However, racing on proper circuits built in the infield of ovals, that's cool.
Like the worlds most boring track Indianapolis road course. Now it wont happen but 1 race just 1 race on the speedway, well i think it could be cool.
Am i the only persone here that thinks 200+mph wheel to wheel, flat out with a concreat wall around the out side, is slightly dangerous, but bloody fantastic. But seriously i know it would not work in an F1 car.
The indy 500, used to be part of the world championship.

[big_sw2000]

well said that man!
and hey, what about we put lights on F1 cars and run the Le Mans 24 hours to F1 regs!
now hows about that! the indy500, Monaco and Le mans all in the space of 6 weeks! there`d be no need for any other form of racing, just F1 and its feeder series.
Did not think of that F1 down the Mulsanne with no chaicanes.
May be the could use the Daytona Speedway, with that huge banking.
Is it true that over s certain speed F1 cars could run upside down.

[big_sw2000]

Oh and Bathurst

[F1boat]

I have nothing against the idea, but only if the technology allows it.

[millencolin]

How many times has this question been asked?

Leave Ovals to the Americans, they know how to do it. Open Wheel Racing on ovals was fantastic back in the early 90's, hopefully one day it will return.

F1 is a sport about road racing. It doesn't need ovals! the cars are not designed for it, nor they should be. I mean, you think the 2009 f1 cars are ugly, look at the IRL cars!

[Dave B]

I struggle to find any sport more tedious than oval racing. Test cricket, possibly. X-hundred laps of going round and round and round and round and rouzzzzzzzzzzzzzz :s nore:

[ShiftingGears]

Boring.

[big_sw2000]

Boring.
Whats boring about 220 mph wheel to wheel. Like i said it wont work in F1.
But its hardly boring.

[Mifune]

I'd like to see just one on the calender, as i think ovals are a significant factor in open wheel racing, and i would love to see a field of f1 drivers adapting to that discipline and it may help spark interest from American viewers and potentially more crossover driver wise between F1 and Indycar.

But its incredibly unlikely. Safety is the overriding concern as i don't know what would be the result of a Kenny Brack type crash on a current f1 car, and also the cost of research and development in adapting the cars to an oval configuration for what would be just one or two events per year.

[555-04Q2]

Oval track racing is boring and pointless. NO oval tracks for F1 thank you very much :down:

[Mark]

I'm glad someone brought this up (even though I suggested the same thing last September), because it brings me to an interesting fact I discovered about the FIA.

There's a very strict grading system in place for road courses, but there is no grading in place for ovals. They just give a pass or fail grade to the cars that wish to race on them. Fomula One cars have stricter crash test requirements than IndyCars, but IndyCars are the ones racing on ovals. Things like this lead me to believe the FIA focuses too much on F1.

For races inside the United States the FIA has no say at all over what IndyCar does.

[F1boat]

How many times has this question been asked?

Leave Ovals to the Americans, they know how to do it. Open Wheel Racing on ovals was fantastic back in the early 90's, hopefully one day it will return.

F1 is a sport about road racing. It doesn't need ovals! the cars are not designed for it, nor they should be. I mean, you think the 2009 f1 cars are ugly, look at the IRL cars!

But the CART beasts were magnificent.

[big_sw2000]

Oval track racing is boring and pointless. NO oval tracks for F1 thank you very much :down:
I would rather watch the Indy 500, instead off Hungry Grand Prix. Now thats a boring race

[rob01]

everyones got an opinion but we all know F1 racing on ovals would not work! ;)

[ShiftingGears]

Whats boring about 220 mph wheel to wheel. Like i said it wont work in F1.
But its hardly boring.

It's all slipstreaming. There's no variety in the tracks - no outbraking manouvers. I'd rather a fast, undulating road course any day. Unfortunately there's not many left.

[big_sw2000]

It's all slipstreaming. There's no variety in the tracks - no outbraking manouvers. I'd rather a fast, undulating road course any day. Unfortunately there's not many left.
I do agree with that

[F1boat]

I would rather watch the Indy 500, instead off Hungry Grand Prix. Now thats a boring race

I agree. I always liked ovals and rovals, I dunno why people dislike them so strongly. Then again, I like all types of tracks, even Hungary can be nice if it rains :)

[cynisca]

If races on oval tracks are boring, why is the NASCAR very popular in the US? The most tracks are oval tracks.

And, to be honest, I would replace some Grand Prixs of the actually Formula One calendar, because the races on those tracks are very boring.

On oval tracks you drive permanently in the hole of the air and the chances of overtakes are higher than on road courses. That's my opinion.

[Dave B]

If races on oval tracks are boring, why is the NASCAR very popular in the US? The most tracks are oval tracks.

Lots of things are popular in the US. Country & Western music, firearms, hamburgers, Miley Cyrus, automatic gearboxes, Budweiser. It doesn't automatically mean they're good ideas.

[ArrowsFA1]

F1 around Bristol. That'd work :p :

F1 around Bristol. That'd work :p :

Would be a tight squeeze round Temple Meads, surely?

Then again, with Valencia's empty harbour supposedly being a "sight", the view of F1 cars flashing past the SS Great Britain might stir Bernie's loins.

Oh, you meant the other Bristol.

[ArrowsFA1]

Would be a tight squeeze round Temple Meads, surely?
:laugh: :laugh:

[veeten]

and now, a history lesson... :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_of_Two_Worlds

[big_sw2000]

Would be a tight squeeze round Temple Meads, surely?

Then again, with Valencia's empty harbour supposedly being a "sight", the view of F1 cars flashing past the SS Great Britain might stir Bernie's loins.

Oh, you meant the other Bristol.
Excellent, i thought you ment Uk Bristol. :)
They could hold a race in Wembley on the race of champions track

[big_sw2000]

and now, a history lesson... :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_of_Two_Worlds
Yes they could rebuild the old Monza, you could have an oval and roadtrack Grand Prix all in one. Keep everyone happy

[LeonBrooke]

Like the worlds most boring track Indianapolis road course. Now it wont happen but 1 race just 1 race on the speedway, well i think it could be cool.
Am i the only persone here that thinks 200+mph wheel to wheel, flat out with a concreat wall around the out side, is slightly dangerous, but bloody fantastic. But seriously i know it would not work in an F1 car.
The indy 500, used to be part of the world championship.

But endless wheel-to-wheel and constant overtaking gets boring. Why watch the whole race when the first 95% of it doesn't really matter for the final result? I like drivers to have to work at passing, and the intense battles are the most fun part, and you just don't get that when you have oval-style overtaking.


Yes they could rebuild the old Monza, you could have an oval and roadtrack Grand Prix all in one. Keep everyone happy
Now that would be awesome.

[call_me_andrew]

For races inside the United States the FIA has no say at all over what IndyCar does.

I'm aware of how the FIA interacts with domestic racing, but keep in mind the IndyCar Series does have an oval race in Japan and CART had oval races in England and Germany.

[DexDexter]

What do you think of that?

I think it would be fantastic to see/watch the Formula One cars on oval circuits. I bet you'll always see a lot of overtakes. :p : It would be a new experience for the drivers and constructors of course.

I mean we have in Europe some oval tracks, EuroSpeedway (Germany) and Rockingham (England), which was used by the IndyCar Series in 2001 and 2003.

Why should they race on ovals? Nobody outside the US really cares about them. Maybe football teams like Chelsea and Manu should also have matches under American football rules, that would also be a new experience for everybody. Or lets have baseball instead of football....new and exciting.

[ShiftingGears]

Yes they could rebuild the old Monza, you could have an oval and roadtrack Grand Prix all in one. Keep everyone happy

FwppPI0tQiU

Yes please. A Curva Grande that lives up to its name again = :up:

[big_sw2000]

Why should they race on ovals? Nobody outside the US really cares about them. Maybe football teams like Chelsea and Manu should also have matches under American football rules, that would also be a new experience for everybody. Or lets have baseball instead of football....new and exciting.
Because to be F1 world champion, the pinacle of motorsport, they used to run the Indy 500. between 1950 and 1960. They never played Socca to American Football rules.

[big_sw2000]

FwppPI0tQiU

Yes please. A Curva Grande that lives up to its name again = :up:
Excellent, that should still be used today, along with Brooklands.

[big_sw2000]

http://www.brooklands.org.uk/Originalimages/b112.jpg

[ShiftingGears]

Because to be F1 world champion, the pinacle of motorsport, they used to run the Indy 500. between 1950 and 1960. They never played Socca to American Football rules.

And to be F1 world champion they also had to race at the Nurburgring and other circuits of similar calibre. Ovals or tracks like the Nurburgring? Not a hard choice.

[big_sw2000]

And to be F1 world champion they also had to race at the Nurburgring and other circuits of similar calibre. Ovals or tracks like the Nurburgring? Not a hard choice.
Have both

[MrJan]

Whats boring about 220 mph wheel to wheel.

I know, it sounds awesome when you say it like that. But I've seen OVal racing and it's some tedious s***. Remember when they tried to launch it in the UK with Rockingham? Ass-car lived up to it's name and now all that seems to be on is a bit of truck racing and a lot of use of the infield stuff.

[big_sw2000]

I know, it sounds awesome when you say it like that. But I've seen OVal racing and it's some tedious s***. Remember when they tried to launch it in the UK with Rockingham? Ass-car lived up to it's name and now all that seems to be on is a bit of truck racing and a lot of use of the infield stuff.
Did you vist Rockingham for the CART race, that was quick. Yeah ok i can understand how its boring to watch on TV, no sense of speed etc. But live at the track its just mind blowingly fast and noisey.
And yes ASSCAR was ASS. Still i think they should dig up Rockingham with a nuclear bomb. And build something closer to Daytona spec, high banks flat out. Then hold a round of the BTCC there.

[wedge]

But endless wheel-to-wheel and constant overtaking gets boring. Why watch the whole race when the first 95% of it doesn't really matter for the final result? I like drivers to have to work at passing, and the intense battles are the most fun part, and you just don't get that when you have oval-style overtaking.

That was what the old Monza used to be like. Monza then, like oval racing is all about timing your slingshot so you're first at the finish line.

[Blancvino]

formula 1-on oval? Erm, just my opinion, but no thanks. isnt that what IndyCar is for?

Ditto x 10

[cynisca]

I know, it sounds awesome when you say it like that. But I've seen OVal racing and it's some tedious s***. Remember when they tried to launch it in the UK with Rockingham? Ass-car lived up to it's name and now all that seems to be on is a bit of truck racing and a lot of use of the infield stuff.

And I attended the German 500 in 2001 and I have to say it was awesome.

The finishes are most under 0.010 seconds. In the Formula One you have 5 to 10 seconds. Don't get me wrong I watch the Formula One as many races as I can but that's the truth.

[Mark in Oshawa]

For those of you in Europe who think oval racing is boring, North Americans for the most part find f1 boring. Ditto for football/soccer. Euro's like it, North Americans for the most part are bored by it. See, the thing is, it is partially what you are brought up on. Neither is more valid or less valid than the other. The problem with f1 for most of us over here in the new world is that you might see 3 passes for the lead all race, and two of them occur due to pit stops. Say what you want about NASCAR and the IRL but at least there is the feeling of uncertainty on who is going to win the race. Espeically in NASCAR where one of 20 cars could win on any given weekend. Having the pole means not much. In f1 it means everything. So it is a different mentality.

OK..but the question is f1 on ovals? I would have to say no. Aero dependent cars don't put on the quality of show on ovals they should. F1 cars are more aero dependent for their cornering performance than a stock car so an f1 race on an oval would be as processional as some of the other f1 dates. IRL cars run flat out and draft back and forth. I find that a tad boring and prefer NASCAR on the ovals because they for the most part cannot run flat out all the time and the cars must be kept on the ragged edge for most of the fuel run. What is more, they are not aero dependent. Ovals suit NASCAR, I am not so sure any ovals are good for OW car save the flat one mile ovals or Indianapolis.

F1 is unique, special and I can appreciate it for what it is on the tracks they race on. Just like I can watch the odd soccer/football match and enjoy it for what it is. THat said, I like my hockey better and I like NASCAR. I can like both...but that means I can also appreciate where either is best seen.

[big_sw2000]

For those of you in Europe who think oval racing is boring, North Americans for the most part find f1 boring. Ditto for football/soccer. Euro's like it, North Americans for the most part are bored by it. See, the thing is, it is partially what you are brought up on. Neither is more valid or less valid than the other. The problem with f1 for most of us over here in the new world is that you might see 3 passes for the lead all race, and two of them occur due to pit stops. Say what you want about NASCAR and the IRL but at least there is the feeling of uncertainty on who is going to win the race. Espeically in NASCAR where one of 20 cars could win on any given weekend. Having the pole means not much. In f1 it means everything. So it is a different mentality.

OK..but the question is f1 on ovals? I would have to say no. Aero dependent cars don't put on the quality of show on ovals they should. F1 cars are more aero dependent for their cornering performance than a stock car so an f1 race on an oval would be as processional as some of the other f1 dates. IRL cars run flat out and draft back and forth. I find that a tad boring and prefer NASCAR on the ovals because they for the most part cannot run flat out all the time and the cars must be kept on the ragged edge for most of the fuel run. What is more, they are not aero dependent. Ovals suit NASCAR, I am not so sure any ovals are good for OW car save the flat one mile ovals or Indianapolis.

F1 is unique, special and I can appreciate it for what it is on the tracks they race on. Just like I can watch the odd soccer/football match and enjoy it for what it is. THat said, I like my hockey better and I like NASCAR. I can like both...but that means I can also appreciate where either is best seen.
Excellent, very well said.
Well im an European who enjoys oval racing, for the reasons who talk about. Ok i love F1, and F1 will not work, and should never use ovals.
But i just dont understand how people can rite off oval racing, i have witnessed CART at Rockingham and it was awsome. I have always liked speed and noise, and Rockingham was just that. I have always wanted to vist Indianapolis, and Daytona for the 500. In know we all have our thoughts well theres mine.
For those off who you find it boring, then why.

[Somebody]

Why would they need money to be spent on tyres? Bridgestone already have the technology

Not in F1-usable form. They already have slick tyre technology, but they spent a hellavalot of money on redesigning the tyres for this year.

[ShiftingGears]

For those off who you find it boring, then why.

It's the same corner for 200 laps.

Set up makes significantly more of a difference than in road course racing. Drivers can manage with an ill-set-up car on a road course and remain remotely competitive, while driving an ill-set-up car on an oval will never be competitive.

There is more passing, but I don't particularly care because it's all slipstreaming and not daring outbreaking manouvers. At least with Monza you could get drivers like Jim Clark who could turn the wick up and use his own talent to unlap himself from 80 seconds behind the leader, while elsewhere on the track you would still be getting an awesome amount of slipstreaming in the race. I just think driver talent shows a lot more in road course racing.

Not that there isn't an enormous skill in setting up the car properly.

[DexDexter]

For those of you in Europe who think oval racing is boring, North Americans for the most part find f1 boring. Ditto for football/soccer. Euro's like it, North Americans for the most part are bored by it. See, the thing is, it is partially what you are brought up on. Neither is more valid or less valid than the other. The problem with f1 for most of us over here in the new world is that you might see 3 passes for the lead all race, and two of them occur due to pit stops. Say what you want about NASCAR and the IRL but at least there is the feeling of uncertainty on who is going to win the race. Espeically in NASCAR where one of 20 cars could win on any given weekend. Having the pole means not much. In f1 it means everything. So it is a different mentality.

OK..but the question is f1 on ovals? I would have to say no. Aero dependent cars don't put on the quality of show on ovals they should. F1 cars are more aero dependent for their cornering performance than a stock car so an f1 race on an oval would be as processional as some of the other f1 dates. IRL cars run flat out and draft back and forth. I find that a tad boring and prefer NASCAR on the ovals because they for the most part cannot run flat out all the time and the cars must be kept on the ragged edge for most of the fuel run. What is more, they are not aero dependent. Ovals suit NASCAR, I am not so sure any ovals are good for OW car save the flat one mile ovals or Indianapolis.

F1 is unique, special and I can appreciate it for what it is on the tracks they race on. Just like I can watch the odd soccer/football match and enjoy it for what it is. THat said, I like my hockey better and I like NASCAR. I can like both...but that means I can also appreciate where either is best seen.

For many Europeans, whether you like a certain sport or not is dependent on whether you have drivers/athletes from your native country taking part in it. I'm sure 3 passes for the lead would be enough for you if a Canadian won an F1 race, right? I, as a Finn, like hockey too but I couldn't care less about the NHL cause if a team from, lets say Toronto wins, it's got nothing to do with me. Valencia has a gp because Spaniards cheer for Alonso. International sport is mainly about nationality, cheering for somebody who has something in common with you.

[ShiftingGears]

For many Europeans, whether you like a certain sport or not is dependent on whether you have drivers/athletes from your native country taking part in it. I'm sure 3 passes for the lead would be enough for you if a Canadian won an F1 race, right? I, as a Finn, like hockey too but I couldn't care less about the NHL cause if a team from, lets say Toronto wins, it's got nothing to do with me. Valencia has a gp because Spaniards cheer for Alonso. International sport is mainly about nationality, cheering for somebody who has something in common with you.

Depends how the race unfolds. It might be a great race if the tension is there and there aren't any passes for the lead.

Like Imola 2005.

I was watching NASCAR and nothing was building up to anything. They were passing and repassing for no real reason besides to get points for leading each lap.

[MrJan]

And I attended the German 500 in 2001 and I have to say it was awesome.

The finishes are most under 0.010 seconds. In the Formula One you have 5 to 10 seconds. Don't get me wrong I watch the Formula One as many races as I can but that's the truth.

It's not about how close the race finishes for me, it's about the event itself. And F1 has been fairly boring for years now too, watching single make saloon stuff is far better IMO.

Most forms of motorsport are going to be fairly exciting if you watch them live, the real test for the majority is whether they can transfer that excitement to TV and oval racing just doesn't cut it. I've watched NASCAR races and I have to say that I'm amazed by the speed and how close they drive but an overtaking manuvoure can take laps, it's like pulling teeth.

And BTCC on an oval is a shocking idea, that would really be the way to kill off the championship once and for all.

[cynisca]

For those off who you find it boring, then why.

Probably they have never seen finishes like that. :p

The finish at Kansas Speedway in 2004. The drivers ran side on side for the last 10 or 15 laps.

pnGDduhmBhk

[UltimateDanGTR]

wow! they were close............

still dont get oval racing though, at least with F1 you have different and interesting corners.

But Indycar obviously has the best race finishes.........

It's the same corner for 200 laps.

That's what somebody would say who doesn't know what Oval racing involves.

Track conditions, tyre wear, fuel loads and temperature mean that a track is constantly changing. It may look like the same corner, but it isn't from inside the car.

Add to that the side draft, the way the car behaves/reacts to pack racing and the skill/nerve it takes to sit side-by-side at 200mph+ on a surface that isn't as smooth as it looks and Oval racing is a damn good test of drivers skills.

Watch Kanaan & Dixon side by side for a few laps from the onboard camera and it you'd be surprised by how tough it is.

Sure, to us Europeans it is an alien type of racing, but to dismiss it as "the same corner for 200 laps" is both innaccurate and ignorant.

That said, F1 on ovals.....no thanks. IndyCars & Nascar would always do it better...it's their gig.

Would we really want to see NASCAR around Monaco? No, because it's not their environment.

[millencolin]

But the CART beasts were magnificent.

they were, they were the most magnificent racing machines of all time... but we all know what has happened with American Open Wheel racing since then

[big_sw2000]

It's not about how close the race finishes for me, it's about the event itself. And F1 has been fairly boring for years now too, watching single make saloon stuff is far better IMO.

Most forms of motorsport are going to be fairly exciting if you watch them live, the real test for the majority is whether they can transfer that excitement to TV and oval racing just doesn't cut it. I've watched NASCAR races and I have to say that I'm amazed by the speed and how close they drive but an overtaking manuvoure can take laps, it's like pulling teeth.

And BTCC on an oval is a shocking idea, that would really be the way to kill off the championship once and for all.
It was only a joke about BTCC on an oval, it would be a bit like a destruction Derby, or banger race. Espically with Mr large nose Plato.

[big_sw2000]

Probably they have never seen finishes like that. :p

The finish at Kansas Speedway in 2004. The drivers ran side on side for the last 10 or 15 laps.

pnGDduhmBhk
All around, or over the 200mph mark.
But again we have had pleanty of close finnishe in F1, and other forms of motorsport. I always rember Group C at Spa 1986.
JUst watch the last lap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH66KSgYIyk

[courageous]

w7Ucqj8EtvQ

2008 Honda F1 car on the Motegi oval - it can be done...

[LeonBrooke]

That was what the old Monza used to be like. Monza then, like oval racing is all about timing your slingshot so you're first at the finish line.
True, it does take skill but you have overtaking all the time. The '06 Indy 500 was thrilling, but I was only interested in the last five laps - because it really is about timing passes to be first at the finish line - the rest of the race doesn't matter.

Possibly the best race I've ever seen was the 2007 Sandown 500 (a V8 Supercar endurance race) - extremely tense battle for the whole race about maintaining position, and for the last 20 laps. The car in P2 didn't manage to pass but that was the point - it was about could he do it, or would the leading car's defence be strong enough?

[big_sw2000]

Excellent video.
Could you imagine the noise of 20 F1 cars flatout for the whole lap on a Super speedway. And how soon the first engine would let go, at hhow many laps untill the blow up.

[MrJan]

Okay so those finishes are really, really close but the race doesn't actually get properly exciting until the last 10 or 20 laps, yes you've got people vying for position but an overtaking move on an oval just isn't the same as a nice piece of late breaking up the inside IMO.

And I do actually appreciate that there is more skill involved than 'going round and round', if you are doing that kind of speed at any time it will be eye opening and to do it for hundreds of laps with people inches from you takes some real talent. But then playing chess really well takes talent too, but it's boring as hell :p :

[call_me_andrew]

But again we have had pleanty of close finnishe in F1

And when was the last time the first and second place cars in an F1 race finished abreast? Not counting team orders of course.

There is one thing that hasn't been mentioned yet. Everyone loves watching drivers pull 4.5 g's through turn 8 at Istanbul. IndyCars pull 4.5 g's at Richmond.

As to this matter of the last 20 laps counting: Oval races are generally endurance races. Are you also going to instist the first 23 hours at Le Mans don't matter?

[cynisca]

wow! they were close............

still dont get oval racing though, at least with F1 you have different and interesting corners.

But Indycar obviously has the best race finishes.........

I should mention the finish at Chicagoland Speedway between the second and third is just 0.0001 second in 2003.

[cynisca]

It's not about how close the race finishes for me, it's about the event itself. And F1 has been fairly boring for years now too, watching single make saloon stuff is far better IMO.

Most forms of motorsport are going to be fairly exciting if you watch them live, the real test for the majority is whether they can transfer that excitement to TV and oval racing just doesn't cut it. I've watched NASCAR races and I have to say that I'm amazed by the speed and how close they drive but an overtaking manuvoure can take laps, it's like pulling teeth.

And BTCC on an oval is a shocking idea, that would really be the way to kill off the championship once and for all.

To be at the race track and sitting in front of the telly exist a different. Because in front of your telly the TV broadcaster can switch through the field where the action is. And you can watch the race from the on-board camera. If you have pay-TV you can turn off the commentators' voice, can choose from six different camera angles and have no commercial breaks. At least the German pay-TV broadcaster. I don't know what the others offer. :p

At the race track you can just see the race and the winner ceremony and that's it.

But to be honest I would prefer to be at the race track. Because you can smell the oil. :p

[cynisca]

v0qvLvXLXBE

-30SE5PAOoA

QSBm9MmLEOw

Who says, I don’t like oval races. He/she has never seen this before. :p

[ShiftingGears]

That's what somebody would say who doesn't know what Oval racing involves.

Track conditions, tyre wear, fuel loads and temperature mean that a track is constantly changing. It may look like the same corner, but it isn't from inside the car.

Add to that the side draft, the way the car behaves/reacts to pack racing and the skill/nerve it takes to sit side-by-side at 200mph+ on a surface that isn't as smooth as it looks and Oval racing is a damn good test of drivers skills.

Watch Kanaan & Dixon side by side for a few laps from the onboard camera and it you'd be surprised by how tough it is.

Sure, to us Europeans it is an alien type of racing, but to dismiss it as "the same corner for 200 laps" is both innaccurate and ignorant.

That said, F1 on ovals.....no thanks. IndyCars & Nascar would always do it better...it's their gig.

Would we really want to see NASCAR around Monaco? No, because it's not their environment.

Obviously it's not the same from inside the car. But it just looks boring seeing cars going around the same corner, 200 times.

[big_sw2000]

And when was the last time the first and second place cars in an F1 race finished abreast? Not counting team orders of course.

There is one thing that hasn't been mentioned yet. Everyone loves watching drivers pull 4.5 g's through turn 8 at Istanbul. IndyCars pull 4.5 g's at Richmond.

As to this matter of the last 20 laps counting: Oval races are generally endurance races. Are you also going to instist the first 23 hours at Le Mans don't matter?
Excellent well said. Im one of the people on ere surpporting ovals, i think the great. Is the 1st 23hours of LeMans pointless, LIKE HELL. It is the greatest race in the world. Was the 1st 11 hours of Sebring worthless last night, again i dont think so.

[MrJan]

I never said that the rest of the race was pointless, I said that it wasn't exciting. Up to that point the overtaking isn't exciting in itself (except for them being really, really close) and it probably won't have a huge effect on the result. If you're going to argue then at least try to argue against stuff that has actually been said :rolleyes:

[philipbain]

I love oval racing (everything from NASCAR & Indycar right down to F2 stocks and banger racing at my local 1/4 mile track), I love F1 and road racing in general, but for F1 to race on ovals brings up several issues. The cars in F1 are designed to run on road circuits, hence they concentrate more on downforce and aero balance rather than sheer drag reduction, so F1 cars in thier current form wouldnt be that suitable. Also F1 cars are not built with unabated 230mph crashes in mind, so they arent as resiliant in this way as an Indycar on indeed the old Champ Cars are. As for whether F1 could race on ovals I don't think it would work from a fans perspective, F1 has always been about road racing, if you want that variety of road and ovals then watch Indycar, which is fast returning to the sort of mix of racing that made it the ultimate driver's formula in the early 90s, though back then it was a combo of perminant and temporary road courses, 1 miles short track ovals and superspeedways, it wasnt until the IRL era that single seaters raced on NASCAR cookie cutter 1.5 mile ovals which I maintain are unsuitable for single seaters and which IRL only run on with an aero pack which encourages artificially close racing. In in short F1 isnt about ovals, Indycar is about a mix and NASCAR is all about the ovals with a couple of road courses thrown in so you can have a laugh about how unsuited a NASCAR car is to road racing (though going way back in the past NASCAR used to run more road courses but in modern times its very limited).

[DexDexter]

I never said that the rest of the race was pointless, I said that it wasn't exciting. Up to that point the overtaking isn't exciting in itself (except for them being really, really close) and it probably won't have a huge effect on the result. If you're going to argue then at least try to argue against stuff that has actually been said :rolleyes:

Is there really any demand for oval racing in the world outside US? People know that there is such racing in the states but I don't see that many oval tracks constructed outside North America. Ovals may be a challenge for drivers but hey so is rallying, etc. That doesn't mean F1 should have every type of track there is in the world.

[philipbain]

Is there really any demand for oval racing in the world outside US? People know that there is such racing in the states but I don't see that many oval tracks constructed outside North America. Ovals may be a challenge for drivers but hey so is rallying, etc. That doesn't mean F1 should have every type of track there is in the world.

Nonsense, oval racing is thriving here in the UK, its just that the venues are usually small ovals, typically between 1/4 and 1/3 of a mile, the BRISCA boast over 25 venues across the UK and over 600 drivers competing in stock cars nationwide, though what are referred to as "stock" cars over here closely resemble midgets in the USA. As for US style stock car racing it is a relative niche, there was the Days Of Thunder / ASCAR series that ran at Rockingham in the UK (and less often at Eurospeedway in Germany) from 2001 - 2007 but never really caught on. I think if oval racing got more exposure over here it would catch on as the audience is generally "knowledgeable" (a word used a lot when describing motor racing fans, particularly by Americans when describing Canadian or British fans, in other words they actually know their stuff rather than blindly supporting a driver for no good reason, ahem Dale Junior, NASCAR).

[big_sw2000]

I never said that the rest of the race was pointless, I said that it wasn't exciting. Up to that point the overtaking isn't exciting in itself (except for them being really, really close) and it probably won't have a huge effect on the result. If you're going to argue then at least try to argue against stuff that has actually been said :rolleyes:
Of course the rest of the race is worthwhile. Otherwise, you would have 10lap indy car sprint races.

[MrJan]

Of course the rest of the race is worthwhile. Otherwise, you would have 10lap indy car sprint races.

Can you not read, or are you just stupid? Try going back and read what I wrote again, it says something along the lines of 'race makes sense, but is boring'. And if someone overtakes another driver say 30 laps in then that probably won't decide the race because there will be yellow flags and pitstops and degrading tyres etc. after that. Okay so you have to drive as quickly as possible (and therefore overtake) to win the race but the actual overtaking itself isn't a huge factor until the last 10-20 laps.

[big_sw2000]

Can you not read, or are you just stupid? Try going back and read what I wrote again, it says something along the lines of 'race makes sense, but is boring'. And if someone overtakes another driver say 30 laps in then that probably won't decide the race because there will be yellow flags and pitstops and degrading tyres etc. after that. Okay so you have to drive as quickly as possible (and therefore overtake) to win the race but the actual overtaking itself isn't a huge factor until the last 10-20 laps.
I seem to rember the first page you wrote S***! :D
That sais it all.
Are you saying that an overtaking move in F1 early in the race will decide the race.
But i do understand what your saying, but tyres degrade in F1, you have pitstops in F1, etc. Like said earlier, it endurance racing, and i like it, and think its exciting from the greenflag, until the chequed flag. Maybe its just me, but i love speed, and CART, Indycar dose that. I went to Silverstone fo F1 quilfying, and stood on the Hanger Straight.
Again F1 wont work on ovals, but i do love Oval racing, and F1 for diffrent reasons.
So i went bac and read what you wrote and it said something along the lines of S***

[MrJan]

No I'm not saying an overtaking move in F1 decides the race, but they are more likely to be exciting because it will probably be a late breaking move as opposed to just having a bit of a tow and going 1 mph quicker for a long time.

And I didn't say s***, I said s**** with an E on the end :p : And you seem to agree with that because it was an answer to the original question of 'what do you think of F1 on an oval?' :)

Fair enough if you like oval racing, some people go for that speed angle but I don't think it transfers to TV like good circuit racing does. Same goes for drag racing, awesome when you are there and can hear it and feel it but on TV it just lacks something. As I'm not willing to spend hundreds on F1 or oval stuff I just make do with the TV coverage and as far as I'm concerned oval racing is dull (and F1 is only slightly better :p : ). HOrses for courses my friend but I certainly won't be tuning into CART or whatever it is this year and I probably wouldn't watch F1 on oval tracks beyond a passing glance out of curiosity.

[big_sw2000]

No I'm not saying an overtaking move in F1 decides the race, but they are more likely to be exciting because it will probably be a late breaking move as opposed to just having a bit of a tow and going 1 mph quicker for a long time.

And I didn't say s***, I said s**** with an E on the end :p : And you seem to agree with that because it was an answer to the original question of 'what do you think of F1 on an oval?' :)

Fair enough if you like oval racing, some people go for that speed angle but I don't think it transfers to TV like good circuit racing does. Same goes for drag racing, awesome when you are there and can hear it and feel it but on TV it just lacks something. As I'm not willing to spend hundreds on F1 or oval stuff I just make do with the TV coverage and as far as I'm concerned oval racing is dull (and F1 is only slightly better :p : ). HOrses for courses my friend but I certainly won't be tuning into CART or whatever it is this year and I probably wouldn't watch F1 on oval tracks beyond a passing glance out of curiosity.
S*** or S**** with an e :wave: LoL
I do agree with most of what yu said. And as i have not got Sky Sports any more, i will miss most of the Indycar series.
I watch F1 because i enjoy watching all types of motorsport, but on the whole it is rather boring. And i hope this years rules make things a bit more intresting. Aussie V8 for me all the way. Know would they work on an oval :D

[MrJan]

I used to watch Aussie V8s on C5 when I was a student, it's good stuff and should really get better exposure on something like ITV4, trouble is that the majority of motorsport doesn't get a great following, that's why BTCC has been chucked from terrestial and WRC has slid from BBC to C4 to ITV to ITV4 and now to Dave. If only I liked tennis then I might get to see my sport more often :D

[DexDexter]

Nonsense, oval racing is thriving here in the UK, its just that the venues are usually small ovals, typically between 1/4 and 1/3 of a mile, the BRISCA boast over 25 venues across the UK and over 600 drivers competing in stock cars nationwide, though what are referred to as "stock" cars over here closely resemble midgets in the USA. As for US style stock car racing it is a relative niche, there was the Days Of Thunder / ASCAR series that ran at Rockingham in the UK (and less often at Eurospeedway in Germany) from 2001 - 2007 but never really caught on. I think if oval racing got more exposure over here it would catch on as the audience is generally "knowledgeable" (a word used a lot when describing motor racing fans, particularly by Americans when describing Canadian or British fans, in other words they actually know their stuff rather than blindly supporting a driver for no good reason, ahem Dale Junior, NASCAR).

Thriving as in compared to what? I certainly didn't hear about or see any oval racing when I lived in your neck of the woods. Small time club racing, right? You're suggesting that oval racing should be promoted. Why? If the masses were interested in it, it would be popular by now. I don't mean to criticise oval racing, but I don't see what's the point in bringing it to F1.

[big_sw2000]

Thriving as in compared to what? I certainly didn't hear about or see any oval racing when I lived in your neck of the woods. Small time club racing, right? You're suggesting that oval racing should be promoted. Why? If the masses were interested in it, it would be popular by now. I don't mean to criticise oval racing, but I don't see what's the point in bringing it to F1.
No oval and F1 will not work. But there was a time in F1, when to be the champion, you had todrive on ovals to be the best. Indianapoils 500 was part of the F1 world championship. F1 was as still should be the pinnacle of Motorsport.
But if they were to decide to bring in one race, instead of lets say Hungry, would it really bother you.

[big_sw2000]

I used to watch Aussie V8s on C5 when I was a student, it's good stuff and should really get better exposure on something like ITV4, trouble is that the majority of motorsport doesn't get a great following, that's why BTCC has been chucked from terrestial and WRC has slid from BBC to C4 to ITV to ITV4 and now to Dave. If only I liked tennis then I might get to see my sport more often :D
The only reason i got a sky dish is for Motors Tv and Eurosport.

[MrJan]

Thriving as in compared to what? I certainly didn't hear about or see any oval racing when I lived in your neck of the woods. Small time club racing, right?

I think he means Oval racing in terms of Brisca F1 series or whatever it is, stuff like this:

gZKP5MERhgA
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I won't pass comment so as not to offend but let's just say that I hold NASCAR in higher regard.

[big_sw2000]

I kind of agree. But some ones got to like it.

[Big Ben]

no, thank you very much

[rob01]

to be fair it wouldnt be the craziest idea to come F1's way.
i remember a couple of years ago reading in Autopsport ideas on how to spice up F1.
the one idea that sticks in my head was having the drivers all swapping cars. so yeah just think we could have kimi and hamilton in force indias racing on an oval...

[UltimateDanGTR]

drivers swapping cars? worst idea in the history of world, except when Bernie Ecclestones father said to his wife, ''Shall we have a baby?''

[Dave B]

And I attended the German 500 in 2001 and I have to say it was awesome.

The finishes are most under 0.010 seconds. In the Formula One you have 5 to 10 seconds. Don't get me wrong I watch the Formula One as many races as I can but that's the truth.
The reason so many oval races have close finishes is down to the massive over-use of yellow flags to bunch the field up every time there's a speck of dust within three miles of the track, or drivers circulating slowly to conserve fuel then putting on a late dash for the finish.

No thanks.

[call_me_andrew]

The reason so many oval races have close finishes is down to the massive over-use of yellow flags to bunch the field up every time there's a speck of dust within three miles of the track, or drivers circulating slowly to conserve fuel then putting on a late dash for the finish.

No thanks.

This had no yellow flags.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2rx24HI5ys

And since someone mentioned the notion of F1 at Bristol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYR79VAetyg

And NASCAR at Monaco.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyIWmcGCt2Q

What's the code for embedding?

[slorydn1]

This had no yellow flags.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2rx24HI5ys

And since someone mentioned the notion of F1 at Bristol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYR79VAetyg

And NASCAR at Monaco.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyIWmcGCt2Q

What's the code for embedding?

That was freakin Hilarious :up:

Oh, to hear that 358 cubic inch V-8 at full song going under the hotel, that would be priceless!!!!

I like both forms of racing very much. As a big Nascar fan, I obviously like oval racing. However, I'm not so sure F1 would be a great idea on an oval. I wouldn't be adverse to seeing F1 on the road course at Daytona, however. It would be cool to see Massa and Hamilton wheel to wheel coming off Nascar 4, blasting past the start/finish line, watching to see which one gives before diving off into turn 1. That would be a hoot, to be sure!

On the flip side, I would like to see Nascar at Spa, just one time. I could see the following conversation happening now:

Kasey Kahne: "Hey, Juan-Pablo, when we were flying over here, I thought you said you can keep it on the mat through Eau-Rouge!!! Now I gotta go to a back up car, thanks alot!!!!"

JPM: Yeah, I said I could keep it on the mat....in an F1 car, you dummy!!!!! :beer:

[dj_bytedisaster]

Oval racing would work fine in F1. In fact I cannot understand they haven't tried it yet. In Germany, the point of it has kind of been proven already. Back in 2006 they swapped the road course for the oval in the Formula 3 race at Eurospeedway and it turned an otherwise rather dull race into a huge spectacle.

Just like F1 the F3 races lack a bit of overtaking although it isn't quite as bad there. When they went for the oval they were changing positions by the second - 3 even 4 abreast racing by people who had no prior experience in Ovals and the cars were well capable of taking a shunt as well. It's a myth that F1 cars wouldn't be able to sustain a crash in an oval - watch Kubica's shunt in Montreal a couple years back - an oval couldn't throw that much more at them and it worked quite well all the time in Indy, were they use quite a fair bit of the oval as well.

Gimme Oval racing any time, love it :D But rather change the rules first, so designers can build cars that don't make me hurl when I look at them.

[call_me_andrew]

There is another potential avenue. A low banked short track would offer low enough speeds to satisfy safety regulations, provide the outbreaking of a road course, and the sightlines of an oval. Of course the FIA would have to be convinced to use a track less than one-mile long.

Here's what a lap at Martinsville Speedway would look like (thanks for that code, no one).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObEGuyWGu00&feature=channel_page

The avergae speed of that lap was about 130 mph (210 km/h). That's only slightly faster than Monaco. A 305 kilometer race would take 361 laps to complete, and it would last about 1 hour and 27 minutes (assuming no safety cars). 20 cars equally spread out on the track would be 138 feet (that's about 42 meters) apart. FIA would have to bend the rules of pit road to compensate for the wall.

[veeten]

and now, a few words from the FIA Appendix O - Proceedures for the Recognition of Motor Racing Circuits - Publoshed on: 24.03.2009, Section 6 - Grade;


Oval tracks will only be licensed for international events for cars approved for use on them by the FIA. These are currently: cars specifically designed for racing on paved oval tracks over 1 mile long (such as NASCAR Cup cars) and those open-wheel cars which comply with regulations and performance requirements specifically concerning :

- side intrusion protection
- driver head protection
- frontal impact energy dissipating
- wheel tethers.

Open-wheel cars which comply include the following: Champ Cars (CCWS); Indycars (IRL); Formula One; Formula 3000 to 2001 specification onwards and cars to similar safety regulations; Formula 3 to 2002 specification onwards.
(my italics & bold added)


No oval track event for any other category, formula or class will be accepted on the International Calendar unless its technical regulations have been submitted by the appropriate ASN and approved for oval racing by the FIA.

[nigelred5]

It's all slipstreaming. There's no variety in the tracks - no outbraking manouvers. I'd rather a fast, undulating road course any day. Unfortunately there's not many left.


That couldn't be further from the truth. Unfortunatley, The IRL totally destroyed good oval racing in favor of what you describe and well, I would agree that their general version of oval racing sucks at many of the ovals.


CART's version of oval racing was widely varied, in track configuration, vehicle configuration and driving dynamics. There is virtually nothing in common with tracks like California speedway, Nazareth Speedway and somewhere like Rio. Personally, there's no meaner or sexier racing vehicle than a 94-95 Lola Indycar in speedway trim..

California was 240 mph, flat on the floorboard, trimmed out, negligible downforce-who's got the largest tackle(some may say smallest brain) racing. Nazereth was run with maximum downforce in road racing trim on a track with 3 very different corners and significant elevation changes at 190mph+ on a track a tick under a mile long. There was nothing like standing on the fence in the frontstretch dogleg, with that beautiful sweet smell and slight burn in your eyes of methanol in the air and seeing cars come straight at you and snapping left at 200mph 20 feet from your face.

Rio had that huge long straight with incredibly heavy braking and an almost hairpin 1st turn then two sweeping turns and another heavy braking zone before the drag race down the long straight. Pocono drives in a very similar fashion but it's far too bumpy for Open wheelers these days. Gateway has two very different sized turns and braking into the narrow radius turn. Motegi is similar. Eurospeedway is an amazing oval with a tragic history, but it's a crying shame CART only managed two races there as both were great races. A minor change to the pit out would have prevented Zanardi's accident.

Don't let bull$#!t NASCAR tracks like Kansas, Chicagoland and Kentucky cloud your idea of what REAL Open wheel oval racing is like. I have to say, anyone that doesn't like open wheel oval racing hasn't been to one in person.

Alas, F1 cars are FAR too fragile and I dare to say so are many of it's driver's egos to ever survive an oval race. Poll the field and I dare say you won't find 50% of the current field with the tackle to even test an oval car, let alone race one.

[nigelred5]

This had no yellow flags.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2rx24HI5ys

And since someone mentioned the notion of F1 at Bristol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYR79VAetyg

And NASCAR at Monaco.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyIWmcGCt2Q

What's the code for embedding?

They would have to rebuild the foundations of the hotel by the time the full 43 car field cleared the tunnel for the first lap!

[nigelred5]

Not in F1-usable form. They already have slick tyre technology, but they spent a hellavalot of money on redesigning the tyres for this year.

So you feel that the tires that Bridgestone and Goodyear have provided Champcar/Indycars and have run at sustained speeds of up to 240 mph for 500 miles would not be adequate for an F1 car that is almost 500lbs lighter? I think they know preisely what is needed to run an oval race.

Actually, I've read quotes from Bridgestone that there is actually very little difference in the construction of this years tires from last year, they simply are missing the grooves. compounds may be different, but in the articles I've read and driver comments, the construction is virtually identicle.


Of the many existing ovals, F1 at Eurospeedway would work quite well IMHO.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I'm with nigelred5 on this issue (and not only because we seem to share the same hero ;) )

I believe Oval racing would work in F1, and I'm pretty darn sure if they did it this season, Seb Bourdais would rip them all a good one, as he's iirc the only one in the current field with extensive knowledge of oval racing (Glock had a few as well afaik). The only prob i'd see is that both engineers and drivers - unless they've worked in CART/IRL before - have no experience with setting up a car asymmetrically, which is needed for most ovals.

If rumours can be believed, Jacques Villeneuve drove his engineers up the wall at Williams with some unorthodox setup changes that he had learned in americaland :D

[woody2goody]

I think F1 could work on ovals, but I don't know how exciting the racing would be. I reckon the track would either have to be short, like Martinsville, or Pocono-style, where they could go pretty much flat out. This is because open-wheelers seem sensitive to setup changes on ovals.