Massa calls for high-profile tests [Archive]

ArrowsFA1

4th March 2009, 14:42

Felipe Massa has called for grand prix weekend mileage to be reduced in favour of a small number of high-profile, perhaps points-paying, mid-season tests.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73548

Some interesting :dozey: ideas. Something to do with Ferrari having their own test track perhaps :p :

Do people really not care about the last 15 laps of a race :confused:
A testing championship :confused:

Tazio

4th March 2009, 14:52

"I think if everybody has an opinion and suggests ideas, all together we can make a good championship," said Massa.

Or a silly freak show! :p :

Knock-on

4th March 2009, 14:55

OK, who let Massa into Kimi's vodka store ;)

F1boat

4th March 2009, 15:04

OK, who let Massa into Kimi's vodka store ;)

Montoya ;)

Robinho

4th March 2009, 15:07

make them points paying, and they'd no longer be tests, just a glorified qually session, with no prospect of seeing a race -if he wants to do time trialling perhaps he should go hill climbing or rallying.

you couldn't test anything new/innovative that might be subject to rule clarifications as you need to record official times, can't test anything brand new and untried in case it doesn't work or takes too long to optimise cos you've got to set a time. you'd end up with the old 1hr qually style sessions with everyone in the garage waiting for the best conditions for a flying lap.

what about engine changes, gearboxes etc - would they need to be subject to race rules, further limiting the number of new compnents you can test.

someone has been reading Max's ideas book

Knock-on

4th March 2009, 15:11

I've got an idea.

Whay not scrap the current calander and just have 17 trials around the world of about 70 Laps or <2 hours to decide the best.

Bit of Blue Sky Thinking but worth a shot.

Tazio

4th March 2009, 15:25

I think I know how Massa conceived these Ideas! :laugh:
http://www.metafilter.com/38318/F1-drivers-using-cocaine
F1 drivers using cocaine?
January 3, 2005 10:47 AM
must drive fast faster faster The use of cocaine is widespread among Formula One drivers, a former Ferrari team doctor has claimed. Although random FIA tests have never returned a positive result, Benigno Bartoletti said in Rome that 'as many as one third' of the current field take the drug as a stimulant prior to grands prix.

wedge

4th March 2009, 15:41

Silly proposal but I do think 2/3 official tests should be sanctioned in the season. There should definitely have at the very least one test for Monza - the only track that runs a low downforce package, cars reaching over 200mph at different points on the track and not to mention the track is supposedly dangerous from a GPDA perspective.

Garry Walker

4th March 2009, 16:04

I am quite surprised he came up with such ideas, which, if I am being kind to them, are moronic. The sad thing is that I would not be surprised if FOTA came up with such proposals.

ioan

4th March 2009, 16:12

wedge

4th March 2009, 16:23

What we need is make Friday test days (09:00 to 17:00), where they can test whatever they wish to.

That wouldn't work practically. I'd rather they turned GPs into 4-day weekend - Thursday for all day testing and Friday practice for F1 and support races.

ioan

4th March 2009, 17:24

That wouldn't work practically. I'd rather they turned GPs into 4-day weekend - Thursday for all day testing and Friday practice for F1 and support races.

That proposition isn't cost effective, and the teams are now looking to cut costs, not to add to them.

wedge

4th March 2009, 17:33

That proposition isn't cost effective, and the teams are now looking to cut costs, not to add to them.

How?

ioan

4th March 2009, 17:37

How?

You just added one more day to the race WE, that costs money, money that many teams don't have.
It also means added costs for the track organizers.
No doubt the admission price will rise too.
The only one getting more out of it it's Bernie, who will ask more money for the broadcasting rights.

BDunnell

4th March 2009, 18:41

I'm against such ideas, but it's good that drivers at least try to sy something about what they would like to have in F1.

If certain other drivers had said it, you would undoubtedly have been on here arguing that it was a stupid idea without the bit about it being 'good that they try to say something', of that I have absolutely no doubt. This is a ridiculous suggestion, pure and simple.

ioan

4th March 2009, 19:13

If certain other drivers had said it, you would undoubtedly have been on here arguing that it was a stupid idea without the bit about it being 'good that they try to say something', of that I have absolutely no doubt.

Your point being?! :confused:

truefan72

4th March 2009, 20:31

You just added one more day to the race WE, that costs money, money that many teams don't have.
It also means added costs for the track organizers.
No doubt the admission price will rise too.
The only one getting more out of it it's Bernie, who will ask more money for the broadcasting rights.

I think adding a Thursday test day before the races would work.

1. all the teams are already in the paddocks by Tuesday/Wednesday

2.All their 3rd drivers/test drivers would be there and would have something to do

3. The testing would/could be closed to the public to avoid all the cost associated of an normal racing day

4...or conversely be open to the public and charged a special reduced price, to compensate the FIA for their usual services.

5. It would give many team an opportunity to improve over the year, allow 3rd drivers and potential future F1 drivers an opportunity to be on those tracks and gain valuable experience and insight.

If the FIA were smart enough they would find a way to monetize this Thursday event via broadcast rights etc. It would be a win win for all the teams.

ioan

4th March 2009, 20:47

I think adding a Thursday test day before the races would work.

1. all the teams are already in the paddocks by Tuesday/Wednesday

2.All their 3rd drivers/test drivers would be there and would have something to do

So they will need to be there one day earlier like Monday/Tuesday.
You don't think they are there 2 days earlier because they need to put everything in place for Friday?
All the equipment needs to be put in place, cars have to be assembled and than scrutinized on Thursday afternoon, and so on.

3. The testing would/could be closed to the public to avoid all the cost associated of an normal racing day

4...or conversely be open to the public and charged a special reduced price, to compensate the FIA for their usual services.

5. It would give many team an opportunity to improve over the year, allow 3rd drivers and potential future F1 drivers an opportunity to be on those tracks and gain valuable experience and insight.

So why not do the test session on Friday when everything is already on place anyway, and they only run some 30 laps during those 3 hours?!
This would make spectators happy as they could see the F1 cars run the whole day.
Teams would be able to run proper in season test session for a small fraction more of the costs (tire and fuel price only).

If the FIA were smart enough they would find a way to monetize this Thursday event via broadcast rights etc. It would be a win win for all the teams.

They can't, CVC and FOM own all the commercial rights to F1.

truefan72

4th March 2009, 20:59

So they will need to be there one day earlier like Monday/Tuesday.
You don't think they are there 2 days earlier because they need to put everything in place for Friday?
All the equipment needs to be put in place, cars have to be assembled and than scrutinized on Thursday afternoon, and so on.

not really, they could get there by Tuesday and cars racing that weekend would still only need to be scrutineered on Thursday afternoon. The testing cars would not be the same as the the race weekend cars and thus have different parameters.

So why not do the test session on Friday when everything is already on place anyway, and they only run some 30 laps during those 3 hours?!
This would make spectators happy as they could see the F1 cars run the whole day.
Teams would be able to run proper in season test session for a small fraction more of the costs (tire and fuel price only).

I do think that allowing 3rd cars to run on Friday's might be an option to be looked into as a viable alternatve. you could get those guys to do about 30-40 laps in each session. The only problem would be that these third cars would have to be in race trim as the potential backup and therefore severly limit the testing parameters.

They can't, CVC and FOM own all the commercial rights to F1.

Then close off testing to the public for Thursday. And maintain the same testing rules that are in place now with respect to the public and media.

wedge

5th March 2009, 00:45

So why not do the test session on Friday when everything is already on place anyway, and they only run some 30 laps during those 3 hours?!

Not possible. How can support races like GP2 and Porsche Supercup practice and qualify if F1 cars are testing all Friday?. Conversely you could run the support practice sessions on a Thursday. I wonder how that could logistically work out regard those teams involved?

AJP

5th March 2009, 06:28

A four day weekend is a great idea..

Thursday : testing for F1
Friday : practice for F1 in race trim, practice for Porsche and V8's
Saturday : Usual F1 practise and qualifying, Usual Races for Porsche and V8's.
Sunday : Usual morning F1 warm up and race, Usual races for Porsche and V8's.

I think the team owners and management would be greatful to test on thursdays as it would be a huge cost saving exercise. Teams will no longer have to travel with all of the equipment and personnel, at cost to the usual test tracks. They have already freighted most of the factory half way around the world, an extra day of running and a bit more gear would not be much of a cost factor in relation to what they would spend on testing days. Ferrari excluded of course.

Event Holders can charge a small fee of maybe $40-50 for anyone who wants to come in and watch the action on the thursdays. Open up the circuit a little more so that average Joe's can sit where they like. First in first serve basis. Open up the paddock for another $50 fee for the punters too, give us a chance to get up close to the drivers which is impossible on the normal race weekends. Obviously keeping security tight with no go areas for media and team personnel only.

I remember gettin ginto the paddock club a few years back and being able to walk out the back of the pits where the teams would hang out..washing tyres and chatting. That was awesome. Drivers walking past you at any given moment. It was bloody fantastic. It should be more available to the average guys and girls out there. I would however restrict it back to the normal operations as of the Friday through till Sunday.

This is only going to generate more income for the event organisers and the teams as you would be attracting so many people to get up close and personal who would not usually come to the race weekends at all.

If only I could organise my own race weekend...ahhhh, that would be the day :)

Big Ben

5th March 2009, 09:12

This is a great idea. The winner of this tests should get some coupons that could be traded at the end of the championship for points if they are enough to win the title or for alcohol if not.

ioan

5th March 2009, 09:24

Not possible. How can support races like GP2 and Porsche Supercup practice and qualify if F1 cars are testing all Friday?. Conversely you could run the support practice sessions on a Thursday. I wonder how that could logistically work out regard those teams involved?

Why can't the support races do that Saturday?!After all there is only 2 hours of F1 on Saturdays. And they could all have their races on Sunday.
This would mean 3 full of action days for fans who pay huge amounts for those tickets.

IMO it can be done easily, but there is little will and interest to do so.
In fact FOTA is pushing for even less testing. They were the ones who selfimposed the in season testing ban.

ioan

5th March 2009, 09:24

This is a great idea. The winner of this tests should get some coupons that could be traded at the end of the championship for points if they are enough to win the title or for alcohol if not.

:up: :laugh: :up:

ioan

5th March 2009, 09:25

A four day weekend is a great idea..

We had 4 days race week ends, and everyone agreed that it was too long.
How can people forget so fast?

ArrowsFA1

5th March 2009, 10:05

We had 4 days race week ends, and everyone agreed that it was too long.
I don't recall 4-day F1 race meetings.

I do remember there used to be pre-qualifying sessions when the teams involved were on-track very early on Friday, and that at Monaco there is a session on Thursday because the track is closed on Friday, but other than that...?

SGWilko

5th March 2009, 10:34

I'm against such ideas, but it's good that drivers at least try to sy something about what they would like to have in F1.
What we need is make Friday test days (09:00 to 17:00), where they can test whatever they wish to.

:up: Absolutely! How much will you save? A whole bunch of money because the teams are already at the track, and those that got points from the previous season have their travel paid for anyway (shipping of cars that is, not staff). It's a good revenue stream for the circuit owners as well, although I think auntie Bernie will make the most money.....

ioan

5th March 2009, 11:04

I don't recall 4-day F1 race meetings.

I do remember there used to be pre-qualifying sessions when the teams involved were on-track very early on Friday, and that at Monaco there is a session on Thursday because the track is closed on Friday, but other than that...?

My memory must be getting rusty than.

Maybe I'm wrong again, but weren't the teams pushing to have Friday. Saturday and Sundays in Monaco too because 4 days is too long?

ShiftingGears

5th March 2009, 11:55

For supporting categories, I want more proper racing with professional drivers in a professional racing series. I dont want stupid celebrity races, awful singers and some guy standing on a motorbike.

I think all that really needs to be done as far as F1 track time is concerned is to have longer practice sessions.

ArrowsFA1

5th March 2009, 12:58

...weren't the teams pushing to have Friday. Saturday and Sundays in Monaco too because 4 days is too long?
Not sure, but Monaco is a 3-day event anyway. There is no F1 track activity on Friday for local reasons I think, and I don't suppose F1 personnel mind having an extra day in Monte Carlo :p

wedge

5th March 2009, 12:58

Why can't the support races do that Saturday?!After all there is only 2 hours of F1 on Saturdays.

GP2 races Saturday and Sunday - remember?

F1 may get 2 hours running time but the track time is near 3 hours so F1 can hog the limelight.

It's not just F1. Go to certain meetings and most headline acts like to hog the timetable.

For supporting categories, I want more proper racing with professional drivers in a professional racing series. I dont want stupid celebrity races, awful singers and some guy standing on a motorbike.

I think all that really needs to be done as far as F1 track time is concerned is to have longer practice sessions.

Yes I agree, its a bit of a joke these days. Compared to other domestic championships, AVESCO seem to get on fine with Bernie.

After a long think I'd rather see 2/3 official test sessions mid-season. When more money rolls back into the sport I can 4 day weekend more ideal.

In fact FOTA is pushing for even less testing. They were the ones who selfimposed the in season testing ban.

I see it as only a short term money saving solution not a long term one. Manufacturers will jump into a championship and spend as much as they can afford and/or walk away when they feel like it. Always have and always will.

ioan

5th March 2009, 13:53

Not sure, but Monaco is a 3-day event anyway. There is no F1 track activity on Friday for local reasons I think, and I don't suppose F1 personnel mind having an extra day in Monte Carlo :p

But for sure the teams aren't happy to pay extra days of hotel rooms.

ArrowsFA1

5th March 2009, 14:02

But for sure the teams aren't happy to pay extra days of hotel rooms.
True, savings could be made there, but no action on Friday is traditional and allows the streets to be opened to the public. I guess this is designed to minimise inconvenience to the locals.

Still, not sure what all of this has to do with Felipe's ideas :dozey:

ioan

5th March 2009, 14:26

GP2 races Saturday and Sunday - remember?

And?! Isn't there enough time for that?
We get at least 14 hours of daylight during the season! More than enough to get everything done every day.

ioan

5th March 2009, 14:27

Still, not sure what all of this has to do with Felipe's ideas :dozey:

You're slow today! :D

wedge

5th March 2009, 14:48

And?! Isn't there enough time for that?
We get at least 14 hours of daylight during the season! More than enough to get everything done every day.

There maybe 14hours daylight but you have to respect local laws regarding noise restriction. In the Silverstone authorised to run races 9am till 6pm.

As I said, Bernie likes F1 to hog the timetable.

F1 is not like a club meeting let alone a major domestic series. Bernie likes to build up every GP like the Superbowl, World Cup Final.

Bernie likes to impress his chums on race day with VIP demo laps and VIP pitwalks. Like it or not its part of the F1/motorsport business, corporate hospitality, a way of appeasing sponsors and big wigs.

ioan

5th March 2009, 17:42

There maybe 14hours daylight but you have to respect local laws regarding noise restriction. In the Silverstone authorised to run races 9am till 6pm.

As I said, Bernie likes F1 to hog the timetable.

F1 is not like a club meeting let alone a major domestic series. Bernie likes to build up every GP like the Superbowl, World Cup Final.

Bernie likes to impress his chums on race day with VIP demo laps and VIP pitwalks. Like it or not its part of the F1/motorsport business, corporate hospitality, a way of appeasing sponsors and big wigs.

They only need to structure the whole thing around F1.

Look at the pre-season testing, it's done from 9:00 to 16:00. F1 could test Fridays from 9:00 to 15:30.
This leaves 2 hours practice time for GP2.
Saturday F1 only uses up 2 hours track time for running and let's say 2 more for different F1 related activities.

The rest of the time is more than enough to slot in the GP2 qualifying in the morning and the 1st race in the afternoon. And they will still have plenty of time for some other support races.

Sunday is even easier around 4 hours for the F1 race, with drivers parade et all, another 2 for the GP2 race in the morning, and they still have another 2 hours in case it's needed.

I really don't see why they don't go with a practice day for F1 on Fridays.

truefan72

5th March 2009, 20:05

Why can't the support races do that Saturday?!After all there is only 2 hours of F1 on Saturdays. And they could all have their races on Sunday.
This would mean 3 full of action days for fans who pay huge amounts for those tickets.

IMO it can be done easily, but there is little will and interest to do so.
In fact FOTA is pushing for even less testing. They were the ones who selfimposed the in season testing ban.

good points
I think a 4 day weekend is the best solution.

It really is a 3 day weekend with a testing day on thursday.

Now it does not have to be at every race, perhaps every other race which would give teams 8-9 good testing opportunities in the season. The will to make this happen is lagging far behind the logic of this possibility. I am not sure what FOTA is doing, but they are looking very silly with some of their suggestions and accommodations. the think these moves will help F1, but they are really hurting F1. It is short term fixes for perceived long term problems. F2 had survived many political and economic turmoil of the the the decades. But these knee-jerk reactions speak more of their rudderless management than solutions oriented actions.

a steady in season testing regiment is key to a continued evolving and vibrant championship. Not having 3rd drivers participate in anyway for an entire race year is simply stupid.