Mansell dis' Hamilton's Championship

[Tazio]

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090304101542.shtml

NM's results speak for themselves
Why does he have to start talking sh!t
Yes NM beat AS, and MS!
LH Beat KR, and FA as well as FM

Even if you agree,
You would never catch Mike, Kimi or Fred making these types of remarks IMHO
What the hell is his motive :confused:

[I am evil Homer]

I never feel Mansell gets the credit he deserves for his success, esp when you see what he achieved and who he was up against. Yes when he won his title he had the best car but the same could be said about many others!

However, he's really talking crap here...there may not be 26 cars (and in NM's days only 6 were any good) but that doesn't make the quality of drivers any less.

[ShiftingGears]

What a stupid thing to say.

If the 2008 grid had 35 cars and 15 of them were Super Aguri level he wouldn't come out and say that Hamilton's championship was more credible than his, would he?

[555-04Q2]

Old farts often spew out old rubbish. Mansell obviously lost his marbles when he shaved his stash off :laugh:

[Ranger]

Well Nigel was always described as a very balanced person.

With a chip on both shoulders...

[DexDexter]

I never feel Mansell gets the credit he deserves for his success, esp when you see what he achieved and who he was up against. Yes when he won his title he had the best car but the same could be said about many others!

However, he's really talking crap here...there may not be 26 cars (and in NM's days only 6 were any good) but that doesn't make the quality of drivers any less.

Mansell's title is totally worthless, his only competitor was Patrese, their car was so much better than anyone else's with working active suspension etc. A good example of that is 1992 Brasilian GP qualifying, Mansell and Patrese were on the front row, Senna was third, 2,5 SECONDS behind Mansell. I don't think anyone has ever had the same sort of advantage over competition that Williams had in 92. (Perhaps Andretti & Peterson in 1978 or Senna and Prost in 1988, but Patrese wasn't on the same level as a teammate to Mansell than those two were to each other). Having said that, Mansell did some (many) extraordinary races during his career, but 92 was a joke, an example of what F1 should never ever become again.

[ioan]

:rolleyes: The Lewy fans never fail to behave like expected, childish!

Mansell has the right to express his opinion, like it or not! :p :

[Tazio]

I'm not a Lewis fan!
However I find NM comments obtuse, and as inflamatory as your response.
Yes it's his opinion.Sadly quite arrogant. It reminds me of someone else :rolleyes:

[Mifune]

I for one would like to see Lewis Hamilton test his mettle against the likes of Olivier Grouillard, Aguri Suzuki, Eric van de Poele, Naspetti, Morbidelli, Comas, Gachot & Modena to mention just some of the legends Mansell had to battle his way through.

[Tazio]

I for one would like to see Lewis Hamilton test his mettle against the likes of Olivier Grouillard, Aguri Suzuki, Eric van de Poele, Naspetti, Morbidelli, Comas, Gachot & Modena to mention just some of the legends Mansell had to battle his way through.In a '92Williams? Please,
he would dust them :dozey:

[Mifune]

And congratulations ioan on getting "Lewy" and "childish" into the same sentence without acknowledging any irony.

[Mifune]

In a '92Williams? Please,
he would dust them :dozey:

I believe I was being sarcastic.

[Big Ben]

Come on people. It's math. :laugh: . 20%! that's it!
And yeah.... it's his point of view.... a very stupid point of view but the man's entitled to be as stupid as he can be.

[Tazio]

I believe I was being sarcastic.Sorry!
My Bad :)

[ArrowsFA1]

To be fair to 'Noige' his comments are in the context of, as the Sun's article (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/motorsport/article2290559.ece) says:
Mansell fears for the future of Formula One as more teams pull out because of the credit crunch.
That said, would Mansell value his title more than, for example, Fangio's in 1951 simply because only 17 drivers took part in 8 races that year?

Hamilton's title is not "20 per cent less credible" than anyone's. It's a world title, earned against the opposition that was there at the time.

[Mifune]

Sorry!
My Bad :)

Not a problem, i should emote more.

[Mifune]

Ok looks like we are going down the route of arguing the two era's lol

Maybe, but i think generally speaking, the sharp end is always the sharp end in any era, and it usually consists of 2-4 drivers or cars that dominate any given season, it was true in Mansell’s day and its true now.

[F1boat]

I think that every world champion deserves respect. I think that Mansell just wants to keep the journalists busy.

[Knock-on]

Storm in a Tea Cup?
Take with a pinch of salt?
In one ear and out the other?

Yep, that's what I'll do with this story. It's a bit of a non-event really.

I guess it consists of 50% actual comments, 50% journalistic spin and 50% BS.

(For those who noticed this is actually 140% then congratulations for being a Sun reader).

[keysersoze]

I see ole Nige hasn't lost his touch. Stupid utterances like that were de riguer back in the day.

I'm inclined to think of Brits as thinkers, so Mansell gets to be the exception that proves the rule. :)

[ArrowsFA1]

I guess it consists of 50% actual comments, 50% journalistic spin and 50% BS.

(For those who noticed this is actually 140% then congratulations for being a Sun reader).
:laugh: :laugh:

[PolePosition_1]

:rolleyes: The Lewy fans never fail to behave like expected, childish!

Mansell has the right to express his opinion, like it or not! :p :

I don't think any of them have said he isn't allowed to express an opinion.

[Knock-on]

I don't think any of them have said he isn't allowed to express an opinion.

It's probably best to ignore childish comments and let the Mods deal with the trolls :)

[Garry Walker]

Mansell has the right to express his opinion, like it or not! :p :

He does and people have the right to make fun of him, if he comes up with such nonsense.
For a man who was beaten by most of his teammates, he sure does have a big mouth.

[philipbain]

I saw this from Nigel Mansell and I just had to laugh. Yes, Nigel was a deserving champion, though to be quite frank he would have been a more deserving champion in '86 or '87 than in 1992 when he had what was a massively superior car, at a lot of tracks it was 2 seconds + quicker than anything else out there, add that to a team mate that was a dependable number 2 rather than any serious competition and it would have been damning if he hadnt had won the championship in '92. His justification of "beating 25 other cars" as opposed to the grids of 20 we have today is complete nonsense, if competition was judged on the number of competitors then NASCAR would be seen as the best series in the world, and whilst NASCAR is very entertaining and very popular in the states it doesnt have anywhere close to the international appeal of F1. Also if you look at the quality of the grids back in the early 90s a large portion of the grid were decidedly uncompetitive, particularly in '92 when you had a Brabham, Venturi and Scuderia Italia all on thier last legs and well past the point of being competitive and Andrea Moda, who were amongst the most inept teams in F1 history. I think winning a championship in today's ultracompetitive environment is as valid as ever before.

[BDunnell]

:rolleyes: The Lewy fans never fail to behave like expected, childish!

Mansell has the right to express his opinion, like it or not! :p :

And everyone who disagrees with it has the right to express the opinion that he's talking rubbish, too.

[Dave B]

There are some drivers, such as Hill, Hamilton and even Mansell himself, who forever attract comments along the lines of "he only won because he had the best car and no competition that year".

A viewpoint which completely disregards the effort required to get into that top team in the first place, and a team mate with equal equipment.

If, on the other hand, Nige means that in 2008 Alonso and the Ferrari's weren't worthy competition, I'd up his medication.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Having read the quote, particularly the part about his title being 20% more credible, I'd surmise that Mansell had his tongue firmly in his cheek.

[truefan72]

Well Nigel was always described as a very balanced person.

With a chip on both shoulders...

LOL, that is precisely what is at play here. Mansell always had an inferiority complex, partly based on paranoia and partly out of legitimate concerns, but it always affected him, so much so that he left F1 right after winning the championship because he didn't want to drive next to senna. I far that as LH grows in stature as a British F1 great, Mansell feels that his achievements might be overshadowed. This is just his way of lashing back. He should be enough of a man to be comfortable with his own achievements and not be taking swipes at fellow champs.

[truefan72]

:rolleyes: The Lewy fans never fail to behave like expected, childish!

Mansell has the right to express his opinion, like it or not! :p :

Ah, Ioan ever the diplomat. Ready to start brush fires then claiming he never lit the match. :(

[jens]

"When I won the title, I beat 25 other cars. That makes Lewis' title 20 percent less credible than mine,"

:rotflmao: One of the best logics I have ever seen in opinions about F1!
Good to have some fun. :)

As for Mansell's career itself. I feel his "spectacular style" has a bit flattered the opinions of many F1 fans in retrospect (well, it's actually quite usual that 'exciting' drivers are a bit overrated compared to more 'calculating' ones). His record against team-mates doesn't make him look as impressive as he has stayed in people's memories.

[keysersoze]

:rotflmao: One of the best logics I have ever seen in opinions about F1!
Good to have some fun. :)

As for Mansell's career itself. I feel his "spectacular style" has a bit flattered the opinions of many F1 fans in retrospect (well, it's actually quite usual that 'exciting' drivers are a bit overrated compared to more 'calculating' ones). His record against team-mates doesn't make him look as impressive as he has stayed in people's memories.

Prost destroyed him in '90, but because of Mansell's "spectacular style," as you noted, Nigel is practically Ferrari royalty (with one win for the Prancing Horse), while Prost got canned a year later for rubbishing the car.

[wmcot]

This is a different thread...old brits vs. young brits! This is better than the McLaren vs. Ferrari threads! :)

[CNR]

WHAT IS YOUR POINT ?
the way i see it he is having a go at the number of cars

[ArrowsFA1]

Well Nigel was always described as a very balanced person.

With a chip on both shoulders...
And perhaps because of those chips he feels his championship is somewhat undervalued because of the strength of the Williams in comparison with the opposition. That may explain his comments, although his main point is about the reducing number of cars on the grid IMHO.

[Valve Bounce]

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090304101542.shtml

NM's results speak for themselves
Why does he have to start talking sh!t
Yes NM beat AS, and MS!
LH Beat KR, and FA as well as FM

Even if you agree,
You would never catch Mike, Kimi or Fred making these types of remarks IMHO
What the hell is his motive :confused:

Common, give the guy a break - he's going through menopause.

[ShiftingGears]

Having read the quote, particularly the part about his title being 20% more credible, I'd surmise that Mansell had his tongue firmly in his cheek.

Come to think of it, that could very well be.

[F1boat]

And perhaps because of those chips he feels his championship is somewhat undervalued because of the strength of the Williams in comparison with the opposition. That may explain his comments, although his main point is about the reducing number of cars on the grid IMHO.

IMO his achievement - back to back championships in F1 and Indy Car is very impressive...

[keysersoze]

Come to think of it, that could very well be.

Except I'm not sure Nigel even has a sense of humor. :p

[V12]

In my own, personal, unashamedly biased opinion of the universe, Hamilton will never be fit to polish Mansell's driving boots.

However...in spite of how much of a bloody hero he was to me in my childhood, Mansell is definitely wrong on this one - the point about Fangio winning races with entry numbers in their teens pretty much puts this one to bed as far as I'm concerned.

Having said that - F1 was infinitely better when we did have 26-car grids, when qualifying actually meant having to qualify for your right just to take part in the race, when we had the drama of pre-qualifying (admittedly that had been lost by the time of Mansell's championship year, but it was the same sort of era).

[Garry Walker]

Prost destroyed him in '90, but because of Mansell's "spectacular style," as you noted, Nigel is practically Ferrari royalty (with one win for the Prancing Horse), while Prost got canned a year later for rubbishing the car.

Prost destroyed him in 1990. DeAngelis, Rosberg and Piquet were better than him as well, not to mention Hill and Häkkinen late in his career.
At the start of 1991 he was beaten regularly by Patrese too.

[V12]

Prost destroyed him in 1990. DeAngelis, Rosberg and Piquet were better than him as well, not to mention Hill and Häkkinen late in his career.
At the start of 1991 he was beaten regularly by Patrese too.

All fellow world champions, with 10 between them, with the exception of Patrese and de Angelis who weren't exactly slouches themselves. One was a multiple race winner and who knows what the other might have achieved further had his career not been tragically cut short, one year after pretty much matching his teammate, one Ayrton Senna.

And I would say he had the edge on Piquet over 1986-87 to be honest, but again that's maybe my biased view.

And he faced Hill and Hakkinen at an age where Schumacher will have been not far short of a decade retired.

I don't think anyone would pretend that Mansell would be in anyone's shortlist for "greatest driver ever", but he does get a bit of a bad rep for having the all-conquering FW14B at his disposal. Let's not forget that unlike Hamilton (and Villeneuve, Hill, DC for that matter), who stepped into the best car straight away, Mansell spent years paying his dues, winning a load of races, before getting his chance.

And while he did win the title in the best car, at least he did actually win it *cough* DC *cough*

Don't know what point I'm trying to make, I guess I just feel obligated to defend the big man (no 1995 McLaren cockpit size jokes please :p )

Still think what he said was wrong though, although how much came out of his mouth and how much was massaged by the pen/keyboard of the journalists, who knows...

[jens]

Mansell beat Piquet quite convincingly in 1987 and mainly reliability helped Nelson clinch the title. Performance-wise the Brazilian wasn't quite the same any more after his Imola crash.

However, I suspect that a lot of Mansell's high rep comes from his performance against Piquet as the Englishman wasn't highly rated before that legendary intra-team battle (on the flipside NP was rated very highly before '86 and possible only Prost had a higher rating than him). But 1987 made Mansell look like a genuine top ace with brilliant raw speed and even 1990 struggle against Prost didn't change this view entirely.

Btw, Garry Walker forgot to mention that Berger, who is rated as a perennial No.2 by many, pretty much matched Mansell too.

[Knock-on]

Calm down peeps.

Noige has quite a dry sense of humour that a lot of people don't get.

I expect that this was a tongue in cheek, off the cuff remark and nothing else.

Nothing here to see, move away please :D

[Jag_Warrior]

LOL, that is precisely what is at play here. Mansell always had an inferiority complex, partly based on paranoia and partly out of legitimate concerns, but it always affected him, so much so that he left F1 right after winning the championship because he didn't want to drive next to senna. I far that as LH grows in stature as a British F1 great, Mansell feels that his achievements might be overshadowed. This is just his way of lashing back. He should be enough of a man to be comfortable with his own achievements and not be taking swipes at fellow champs.

Very well put.

[DexDexter]

In my own, personal, unashamedly biased opinion of the universe, Hamilton will never be fit to polish Mansell's driving boots.

However...in spite of how much of a bloody hero he was to me in my childhood, Mansell is definitely wrong on this one - the point about Fangio winning races with entry numbers in their teens pretty much puts this one to bed as far as I'm concerned.

Having said that - F1 was infinitely better when we did have 26-car grids, when qualifying actually meant having to qualify for your right just to take part in the race, when we had the drama of pre-qualifying (admittedly that had been lost by the time of Mansell's championship year, but it was the same sort of era).

Here we go again, in the old days things were much better with Senna and Prost winning 15 of 16 races in 1988, Williams dominating in 92,93, the difference between front and back being about 5-6 seconds etc. Come on, we have just had two very very close world championships. F1 is infinitely better, more competitive (more fast cars) now than it was back in Mansell's era. Talking about pre-qualifying, I don't see how the likes of Eurobruns and Colonis did anything to F1, we certainly did no see the sessions live.

[F1boat]

IMO every year has its pros and cons as well as different types of seasons, one with dominating team, the other close. All champions and all eras deserve respect.

[UltimateDanGTR]

Mansell has actually come across quite bitter here. Both Hamilton and Mansell's championships were excellent. they are both superb drivers. except one had a moustache. They are as good as each other.

and I also agree with 'F1boat', each season has its pros and cons and I say every single driver ever in F1 deserves credit and respect. even if some *hemalonso* nowadays are just arrogant T******

[Caroline]

In the run up to the new season, we are bound to get more and more stories like this - true or not. It is just the traditional pre season build up and nostalgia always plays quite a part in it. How long till we get a semi controversial quote from Jackie Stewart, some pearls of wisdom from Eddie Irvine etc etc? It all adds to the fun imo. :)

[leopard]

IMO every year has its pros and cons as well as different types of seasons, one with dominating team, the other close. All champions and all eras deserve respect.

Hardly I see people here give enough respect to Alonso. :mark: :)

[SGWilko]

so much so that he left F1 right after winning the championship because he didn't want to drive next to senna.

Prost, my dear fellow, he did not want to race alongside Prost, because of his political machinations (see Ferrari 1990) and his closeness with Renault.

[Knock-on]

Hardly I see people here give enough respect to Alonso. :mark: :)

Really?

I think Alonso is very well respected on these hallowed boards. My only regret is that his ego superceeded his excellence on the track IMHO.

From a racing perspective, he is in the top 2.

[Dave B]

Since Schumacher Senior's retirement, I can't think of two drivers who have polarised opinion as much as Alonso and Hamilton. There's a world of difference, however, between not supporting a driver and disrespecting them.

[Tazio]

Amen to that brother! :rolleyes: