Lack of charismatic WRC drivers

[Fide]

Nobody will deny we face lack of WRC competing factories (doesn't matter the reasons since not the goal of this tread).

The question is: Do we have charismatic (plus talent) drivers ?
We consume info about efforts being made by Solberg to return; an isolated try from retired Gronholm and nothing else..... I mean, it seems Loeb - Hirvonen and couple more doesn't have the charism (as Lauda said about Hamilton) to attract the fans...

What the old guys like Sainz-McRae-Burns-Makinen-Rhol-Biasion-etc. etc HAD ? Probably blood on their veins ?

[tmx]

Yeah they are are really boring. They have nothing interesting things to say during interviews, everytime Loeb/Dani interview: blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah. But this is sort of expect as the sport become more money driven, more sponsor and adverstisement, and restriction from the team not wanting the driver to bad mouth the brand name so the driver ins't allow to say anything bad or have unkempt hair. Also because of technology of the car and the requirement to finish rallies since it cost so much to drive. Before I got into rallying, I got bored of circuit racing because of how controlled the driving become.

[Fide]

TMX : Partially agree.... F1 has more or less same restrictions and drivers do their own to attract public; even their interviews (not always) have info to read between lines when not direct fighting inside or outside the races.....

I think this generation (with some exceptions like Solberg-Gally-Gronholm) is really boring .... I know Sebastian in person and my granma has more interesting speech than him..........................

[driveace]

I feel the big problem here is that all the team members arefrightened to say anything ,that can be misinterpreted.This also applies to the mechanics too,you ask them a question on events ,and they are afraid of expressing an opinion.I am sure they are threatened that,a word out of place means your down the road.Why do team members at F1 tape all their drivers interviews,this closed shop attitude is what annoys the spectators

[Helstar]

I think this generation (with some exceptions like Solberg-Galli-Gronholm) is really boring .... I know Sebastian in person and my granma has more interesting speech than him..........................
So true :s

[BDunnell]

I feel the big problem here is that all the team members arefrightened to say anything ,that can be misinterpreted.This also applies to the mechanics too,you ask them a question on events ,and they are afraid of expressing an opinion.I am sure they are threatened that,a word out of place means your down the road.Why do team members at F1 tape all their drivers interviews,this closed shop attitude is what annoys the spectators

This is exactly the problem. It pervades almost all public comment on any subject nowadays.

As for the drivers of the past, there were always uninteresting ones and interesting ones. I think Röhrl was considered a bit of a 'loose cannon' even in the early 1980s. Tony Pond always seemed good for a witty, pithy quote. Ari Vatanen was a highly articulate interviewee, and when one sees old film of (the university-educated) Hannu Mikkola being spoken to for TV after some complete disaster, it is quite unbelievable how relaxed he seems.

[big_sw2000]

What about Jari Matti, the most exciting driver there now.

[ste898]

I agree 100% but I always used to get slated on here for saying things like this and now they are all coming out on forums........strange!!!

[Sulland]

So apart from the Solberg English, that in itself is cool - when they are "high" on driving, not much, since Galli left.

What about the up and coming next generation - are there any of them with charisma ? Or are they all polished, and trained monkeys as well ?

[Fide]

I really don´t think it is a matter related to what they can say or not related to their respective teams. For me to be charismatic is more tied to share with fans their feelings, driving tales, accidents, errors (like someone told about Mikola). It is related to openness, to be funny... that sort of things that are more related to the person. People wants to understand what his "hero" feels, experiences etc. Not just to see a robot like Loeb.

[cosmicpanda]

I like Loeb. He always tries to give good answers.

[Psycho!]

I like Loeb. He always tries to give good answers.
"I don't know.we will see"...Is that a good answer???? :rolleyes:

[ShiftingGears]

They're just a product of their environment, really.

[janvanvurpa]

"I don't know.we will see"...Is that a good answer???? :rolleyes:

It can be a very good answer.
Depends.
We'll see.

[TKM]

"I don't, ... arrrr... know ...arrr..... we will ....arrrr.... see"...
Fixed

[Hartusvuori]

I wouldn't say when Mikko Hirvonen was talking about making an effort to win Loeb in Rally Norway's press conference (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrLHQ7Yuc-Y#t=4m03s) that he would've completely lacked charisma. I wouldn't see such answers coming from - say - F1 drivers.

Hirvonen is also very often very honest and if fighting for the win also very enthusiastic in the stage-end interviews. Where as Loeb is in four out of five cases just saying: "Eeer, the stage was, eeer, after the middle part, eerrr, errr, slippery, eeer, very difficult stage for me for shure", even if he scores a top time by ten seconds.

Latvala is still too analystic about his driving, but at least he's not all complaining anymore. But if he would man up a bit he would build a bigger charisma.

Solbergs, okey. Petter at his best have a huge charisma, that no one can't deny. But that haven't been the case for many years now, but of course we'd like to see him back smiling again. Henning for me has always been overshadowed by his brother.

Here's another video link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BK1LFlPVb0&e#t=1m56s) to a rally (co-)driver with charisma, the late Michael "Beef" Park. That sort of humour makes this sport the best there is.

[Daniel]

I agree 100% but I always used to get slated on here for saying things like this and now they are all coming out on forums........strange!!!

People don't disagree with you if you say there aren't very many charismatic drivers in the WRC it's just the way you say it.

I have to agree with the OP. If more WRC drivers are to be brought up like the ones in F1 where they are rallying almost since they're out of the womb you're generally going to have boring zombies. Jari-Matti seems nice and all in interviews but isn't the most charismatic Finn I've ever seen.

[mdesign]

I miss Gronholm comments at the end of stages :)

[Brother John]

I miss Gronholm comments at the end of stages :)
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-flag001.gifMe toooooo.

[mm1]

Latvala - no way, crying is not for men.

[wotaguy]

intresting thread, i think you could argue a lack of charisma, could be down to lack of the head to heads , or " feuds" of old, ie burns vsmcrae, makinen vs everyone, blomqvist vs mikkola etc always made interviews fun because there seemed a geniune fight, that has been lost at present

[Fide]

yeap. It can be cosidered also in that way.... this generation seems TOO cold at the moment to fight between them (doesn't matter if it is true or just to have some fun and to supply some "food" to the fans). Even this is sport; one of the legs to attract public / sponsors / money / factories etc etc are the "players" in this case the drivers. Probably, someone like Ecclestone is needed in WRC to put the seed (i.e. to insert those showmans like Valentino Rossi).

[wotaguy]

yeah definatly, old bernie sort it out lol :)

[JFL]

charismatic= The Solbergs, Galli and Jari Matti. The rest is boring..

[Barreis]

JML doesn't have charisma at all.. Galli is talking too much.. Petter Solberg is acting too much.. H.Solberg is boring.. S.Loeb has charisma but the most charismatic driver of all time is C.McRae..

[JFL]

haha.... :) agreed to disagree then. Loeb is maybe charismatic in his own house with his family, but not at all on TV! Same answer with every question..
After Rally Norway, on the finnish line, Petter remembered to thank everybody, and Loebs mechanics as well.. I guess Loeb forgot that! ..

[Sulland]

Maybe we need to define what we all mean by charisma, since I am not sure we all mean the same thing ?

This is the wikipedia version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charisma

[Barreis]

haha.... :) agreed to disagree then. Loeb is maybe charismatic in his own house with his family, but not at all on TV! Same answer with every question..
After Rally Norway, on the finnish line, Petter remembered to thank everybody, and Loebs mechanics as well.. I guess Loeb forgot that! ..

Never saw that Colin did thank to anybody..

[Barreis]

What about Jari Matti, the most exciting driver there now.

I hope Ford will find someone better..

[Fide]

Sulland : The sense I tried to write the thread is exactly the ones is defined in wikipedia. So..... Loeb : definitly could have charisma in his bathtub not in interviews, nor with public, nor with colleagues, nor at all..... It is a pity because his talent but basically always sound B o r i n g and lack of enthusiasm that he transmits Very very well on TV and also in person !!!!

[Barreis]

I don't know about what writes but when thinkin' about charisma then R.DeNiro and A. Pacino from actors are on my mind. Charisma is for me something that can atract people without speech at all..

[wotaguy]

i agree you need to give abit back to the fans, also maybe create more, now dont get me wrong im a massive citroen/loeb fan have been since begining, as im an old un, but millenium stadium lasy year, solburg, rossi, etc all out of cars waving , etc... loeb just sat in car ....

[Daniel]

JML doesn't have charisma at all.. Galli is talking too much.. Petter Solberg is acting too much.. H.Solberg is boring.. S.Loeb has charisma but the most charismatic driver of all time is C.McRae..

I think people mistake a nice guy for someone having Charisma. I'm not sure I'd say even Loeb has charisma.

[sollitt]

They're just a product of their environment, really.

I believe this is true. Those older drivers mentioned (Ari, Hannu, Markku, Bosse) were men with real life experiences and the confidence and intelligence that brings.
Today's drivers appear to me to be kids who've grown up in the sport and are singularly focussed without the rounded experience necessary to breed charisma.

Thankfully, the WRC isn't a personality contest.

[Woodeye]

The last man with charisma in WRC was Carlos.

Nowdays we have.. um... well there's this one French.. no.. Finn.. no, not that either.. Swede.. not that.

Well, KKK should drive in Jyväskylä this year. :) There's mustache and charisma for you.

[Barreis]

This is not from rallies but this guy for me has charisma.. That's something in Your eyes.. You don't have to say anything and the way you're is that atracts people..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIhGJyLR6TI

[wotaguy]

in a way wrc is a pesonality test , say from a potential fan point of you , after all what attracts someone to a sport, car or driver ?/,for me it was seeing mikkola and alen in 1979 ,action ,and charisma instantly hooked on the sport

[BDunnell]

JML doesn't have charisma at all.. Galli is talking too much.. Petter Solberg is acting too much.. H.Solberg is boring.. S.Loeb has charisma but the most charismatic driver of all time is C.McRae..

And here we see a perfect example of how opinions differ, because I would never describe Colin McRae as having been a charismatic character — a charismatic driver, yes, but not a charismatic character.

[BDunnell]

I believe this is true. Those older drivers mentioned (Ari, Hannu, Markku, Bosse) were men with real life experiences and the confidence and intelligence that brings.
Today's drivers appear to me to be kids who've grown up in the sport and are singularly focussed without the rounded experience necessary to breed charisma.

There is a great deal of truth in that, I think — although quite a lot of drivers from the 'golden era' also started young. I place the blame for their current nature more on the obsession with being blandly uncontroversial and not saying anything 'out of turn' that pervades much public comment in almost all walks of life nowadays.

[A.F.F.]

Sean Connery has charisma.

Wait.. he is not WRC driver :mark:

Bummer.

[JFL]

Charisma is often used to describe a personality that often seems to have a seemingly "supernatural" ability to charm, to lead, persuade , inspire and / or affect other people.(Sounds like Mr.Hollywood to me) Charisma refers specifically to a quality of certain people who easily attracts attention and admiration(And this sounds like him too)
My opinion anyways.... Not that it matters.... :)

[Lousada]

The only driver with a bit of charisma in the WRC is Loeb. He has got to have charisma because he has lead a large team to continuous succes for the past 6 years. Of course he is not the only captain, but in the end all the mechanics and engineers have to follow his lead, AND he must make it happen. When was the last time Loeb or Citroen made a mistake? It takes great leadership to keep a team going that has won everything multiple times.

Compare this to Ford were Malcolm outshines his drivers on every possible occasion. Or to Subaru were Solberg could not get anything done for years.


yeap. It can be cosidered also in that way.... this generation seems TOO cold at the moment to fight between them (doesn't matter if it is true or just to have some fun and to supply some "food" to the fans).

How on earth can you consider todays WRC drivers cold? Guys like Hirvonen, Latvala, Henning, Atkinson and yes even Loeb, are always friendly, fair and trying to be happy and thoughtful.
Cold in my opinion is someone like Fernando Alonso, completely self-obsessed, no self-reflection and throwing temper-tantrums for everything irregardless of what people might be watching.
If someone is cold, in my opinion that person has more negative qualities than positive. This is certainly not the case with todays WRC drivers.

[Helstar]

Fixed
LOL ! That video has made a lot of victims xD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czbJAaJTFp8&fmt=18


This is not from rallies but this guy for me has charisma.. That's something in Your eyes.. You don't have to say anything and the way you're is that atracts people..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIhGJyLR6TI

Rotfl :D amazing :)

[lcd]

I miss Gronholm comments at the end of stages :)

I always judge a driver's talent by his reactions and comments at the end of stages - ecpecially after not good times or accidents- and Marcus Is by far the most talented driver!An always winning driver doesn't mean he's the most talented !But that's my personal opinion!

[Daniel]

I believe this is true. Those older drivers mentioned (Ari, Hannu, Markku, Bosse) were men with real life experiences and the confidence and intelligence that brings.
Today's drivers appear to me to be kids who've grown up in the sport and are singularly focussed without the rounded experience necessary to breed charisma.

Thankfully, the WRC isn't a personality contest.

I agree but don't you think it's nice to have drivers with a bit of something about them rather than a field of drivers who are a little boring?

I know the drivers today are just as good as drivers but I miss the old Burns/McRae type rivalries and just the characters we had. Can anyone imagine an up and coming Delecour type of person ever being allowed to drive in a top flight car? Instead you'll get a guy like Jari-Matti who is quick enough but is hardly a character and is more the type of guy you'd want dating your daughter because he seems like a nice little boy.

Here's a picture of Colin I took on the Sunday after Rally Australia 2005. You wouldn't catch any of the current crop of drivers this drunk in an Irish pub in Perth singing The Gambler (Kenny Rogers song in case some of the young ones here don't know!)

http://members.iinet.net.au/~fenix1983/PICS/FIL36855RS.jpg
This is my favourite though :)
http://members.iinet.net.au/~fenix1983/PICS/FIL36850rs.jpg

Though I like this one too....

http://members.iinet.net.au/~fenix1983/PICS/FIL36854rs.jpg

I'm sure you probably have some memories like this too Solitt ;)

[big_sw2000]

I agree but don't you think it's nice to have drivers with a bit of something about them rather than a field of drivers who are a little boring?

I know the drivers today are just as good as drivers but I miss the old Burns/McRae type rivalries and just the characters we had. Can anyone imagine an up and coming Delecour type of person ever being allowed to drive in a top flight car? Instead you'll get a guy like Jari-Matti who is quick enough but is hardly a character and is more the type of guy you'd want dating your daughter because he seems like a nice little boy.

Here's a picture of Colin I took on the Sunday after Rally Australia 2005. You wouldn't catch any of the current crop of drivers this drunk in an Irish pub in Perth singing The Gambler (Kenny Rogers song in case some of the young ones here don't know!)

http://members.iinet.net.au/~fenix1983/PICS/FIL36855RS.jpg
This is my favourite though :)
http://members.iinet.net.au/~fenix1983/PICS/FIL36850rs.jpg

Though I like this one too....

http://members.iinet.net.au/~fenix1983/PICS/FIL36854rs.jpg

I'm sure you probably have some memories like this too Solitt ;)
Excellent
I went to an Audiance with Nicky Grist, rember him saying about the times he was codriving for Kankunen. The amount of time he was dragged to a pub, on rally nights. And the amount of fags and Vodka Kankunen would get through.
Dont think rallying was as serious in them days.

[BDunnell]

I went to an Audiance with Nicky Grist, rember him saying about the times he was codriving for Kankunen. The amount of time he was dragged to a pub, on rally nights. And the amount of fags and Vodka Kankunen would get through.
Dont think rallying was as serious in them days.

I don't agree about it not being as serious. The best drivers always took the sport just as seriously as their successors do now. However, there has clearly been a growing emphasis on physical fitness and the social side of rallying that once existed has disappeared, amongst other factors.

[Barreis]

Man I would never give my doughter to date with JML..

[Psycho!]

Man I would never give my doughter to date with JML..
Then give her to a guy like Flavio Briatore.... :p

[Barreis]

I don't have doughter.. Even if I have it's her choice.. Must be a man not liliputan..

[Barreis]

Psycho! Yes You are..

[Daniel]

Man I would never give my doughter to date with JML..

Neither would I. I said seems to be a nice guy ;) I've heard stories :p

[sollitt]

I agree but don't you think it's nice to have drivers with a bit of something about them rather than a field of drivers who are a little boring? Absolutely.


I'm sure you probably have some memories like this too Solitt ;)
True. but I was always too drunk myself to take pictures.

[koko0703]

I think none of today's drivers including Loeb has really needed to lead the team so far in his career. As far as I know, Carlos with Toyota, Colin with Subaru, Tommi with Mitsubishi, Macus with Peugeot... all the drivers whom I consider having charisma has brought the team from zero (or almost zero) to the championship. Loeb is in some sense brought championship to Citroen but I wouldn't count Loeb as one of the "leaders" because I believe Citroen's earlier success (at least 2003 & 2004) is alot to do with Carlos and Colin. Loeb is definitely very talented and sucessful driver but I think he lacks charisma to lead WRC.

[Daniel]

I think none of today's drivers including Loeb has really needed to lead the team so far in his career. As far as I know, Carlos with Toyota, Colin with Subaru, Tommi with Mitsubishi, Macus with Peugeot... all the drivers whom I consider having charisma has brought the team from zero (or almost zero) to the championship. Loeb is in some sense brought championship to Citroen but I wouldn't count Loeb as one of the "leaders" because I believe Citroen's earlier success (at least 2003 & 2004) is alot to do with Carlos and Colin. Loeb is definitely very talented and sucessful driver but I think he lacks charisma to lead WRC.
Koko Sebastien was in Citroen before Colin was there. If anyone helped Loeb is was certainly Carlos a lot moreso than Colin. The Xsara just wasn't Colins car.

[escortrs]

I think the extent of the involvement of the drivers in leading the team is being somewhat overstated here. Let's not forget people like Dave Richards, Ove Andersson, Guy Frequilin, Jean Todt, Peter Ashcroft, Malcolm Wilson, Jean Pierre Nicholas, Stuart Turner etc etc . . . not to mention the role of the co-driver.

Sure, a driver with good leadership skills must be an advantage, but they are not single handedly reponsible for the success and failure of a team. Its not their core function.

More on topic - I think that many top rally drivers tend to be calm people - its part of what makes them good. However, just because you don't seem excited, excitable or exciting, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't have something intelligent to say.

On the other hand, if I worked as a contractor with only a handful of vacancies each year, I think I would be very careful about what I was filmed saying!

[sollitt]

I'm not sure that anyone is suggesting that a prerequisite of being charismatic is to bag your team publicly.

If you look at Petter, for example, it was his fun, frivolity & positivity, not his discontent with Subaru, that projected his charisma.

[koko0703]

Koko Sebastien was in Citroen before Colin was there. If anyone helped Loeb is was certainly Carlos a lot moreso than Colin. The Xsara just wasn't Colins car.

I totally agree that Carlos helped Loeb more than Colin.

What I meant to say in the above post is that Citroen has been built around Loeb not Loeb building Citroen. OK these two arguments are not mutually exclusive, but that the impression I've got, and how I see the driver with "charisma" is the ones who build team.

[Barreis]

I must say one more thing about P.Solberg. I saw him running behind car on Bettega memorial 2008 after that terrible fall. This guy is so good for marketing purpose.. But that's not charisma.. Charismatic drivers are marketing something without being in public at all.. That's when You want to be like somebody of that charismatic guys.. Do I want to be like Petter Hollywood, G.Galli, H.Rovanpera, etc? No, not at all.. But I wanted to be COOL like C.McRae.. That's charismatic driver - being COOL.. Look at this guy Robby Gordon from this year's Dakar.. He's COOL.. I would rather be COOL like him (if I have to) than some boycie from these other guys..

[zerodegreec]

Its been said already, but the drivers have gag orders.

Loeb is great to watch, because when he gets a stupid question he gives great blunt (f-you) answers that you can just see that he wants to say something else...

Loeb's answers to questions and comments are really good for the "read between the lines" people. If we could really get to hear what he thinks I believe that we would have answers like Jeremy Clarkson gives. He seems like a call it like it is kind of guy, but his marching orders are to stay neutral.

What we need is some pre-madona drivers that have skills nobody can touch, but the guys to say what they want, reguardless of the outcome. Take for example Colin when he told told his team to get him a car that can last a rally or he walks.

[zerodegreec]

I have been thinking about this topic earlier and one name popped into my head above all others... Henning Solberg. This man has got charisma! His interviews always come across well. His excitement is addictive. The excitement was most recently noticeable with the battle against Atco in Ireland on day 3.

We need more Henning.

[Brother John]

Put forum member Don Jippo in a rally car and we have someone with cool Charisma and a lot of great, good answers. :p : According to me he is also a good driver. ;)

[big_sw2000]

Put forum member Don Jippo in a rally car and we have someone with cool Charisma and a lot of great, good answers. :p : According to me he is also a good driver. ;)
:laugh:

[JAM]

Charisma?

Colin Mcrae and Carlos Sainz were the last ones. Afte these two, not other was a charismatic driver on WRC. These guys show to be good in every car they run.

Makinen and Gronholm were close. Makinen is connected to one car: Mitsubishi, after that he came down and deep. Gronholm was better, not so much titles but more consistent even when changed from Peugeot to Ford.

Loeb is good, but has no charisma. Their answers were only a sign that he has a lot of dificulties with english.

[J.Lindstroem]

I think before this discussion can continue, we have to define what charismatic really means. Right now people are talking about different things. The last one intending that charisma has something to do with how many cars the driver where competitive in??

[Gard]

I think before this discussion can continue, we have to define what charismatic really means. Right now people are talking about different things. The last one intending that charisma has something to do with how many cars the driver where competitive in??

From Wiki:
The word charisma (origin from the Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language) word χάρισμα (kharisma), "gift" or "divine favor," from kharizesthai, "to favor," from kharis, "favor") refers to a rare trait found in certain human personalities usually including extreme charm and a 'magnetic' quality of personality and/or appearance along with innate and powerfully sophisticated personal communicability and persuasiveness.

Can't see Colin or Carlos qualify at all

[J.Lindstroem]

From Wiki:
The word charisma (origin from the Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language) word χάρισμα (kharisma), "gift" or "divine favor," from kharizesthai, "to favor," from kharis, "favor") refers to a rare trait found in certain human personalities usually including extreme charm and a 'magnetic' quality of personality and/or appearance along with innate and powerfully sophisticated personal communicability and persuasiveness.

Can't see Colin or Carlos qualify at all

Well this is great! That is quite much how i thought about it. I think drivers meeting these criteria is few. I think that you can see pure happiness in the eyes of a charismatic person, something that everybody is attracted to...

[Daniel]

Put forum member Don Jippo in a rally car and we have someone with cool Charisma and a lot of great, good answers. :p : According to me he is also a good driver. ;)

I disagree. His driving sends me to sleep :p

[Miika]

Charisma? Vatanen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S2HjaDUb5Y

The whole Vatanen story:
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=72FEAF9C2B8B27C1

It doesn´t take perfect English to be a charismatic person, so that´s no excuse for Loeb being as exciting as he is.


And as for the last driver who had even a bit of charisma, a crazy kind of energy combined with raw speed, it´s Marcus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsvJhdiDwYU

Co-hosted by Timo of course.

[Barreis]

Finns? It's lack of the good ones at the moment.. Maybe Toni G. has some kind of charisma.. At least he tries to be cool..

[JFL]

I think we need to agree to disagree about the meaning of charismatic ..

[A.F.F.]

Finns? It's lack of the good ones at the moment.. Maybe Toni G. has some kind of charisma.. At least he tries to be cool..

Gardemeister? Charismatic? LOL :laugh:

[Gard]

Finns? It's lack of the good ones at the moment.. Maybe Toni G. has some kind of charisma.. At least he tries to be cool..
:eek: maybe Ahonen too?

way difference between cool and charismatic. and stone face is neither

[RS]

Gardemeister? Charismatic? LOL :laugh:

Stand him next to Anton Alen and then he will look charismatic.

[BDunnell]

I think we need to agree to disagree about the meaning of charismatic ..

And the people to whom it applies.

[spartanvg]

Charisma? I dont think anyone in WRC has charisma now days.

You can see, look at Solberg. He acts so cool, he grows hair, he dances, maybe he singing too I dont know. But it dont look real. Look fake, just do for money you know.
Always talk good about his car, even those it's ka-ka. I dont think when the camera is off he is like that. It seem he sold himself for money. Advertising, like someone said marketing.

Leob, he is not bad. He is ok. He seems like reserved. But atleast he doesn't seem like idiot doing silly things for money. Maybe he alittle shy? Lack of confidence? Just because he is a great driver and (maybe) greatest champion of rally of all time does not make him confident. In car he is very confident, outside not so much.

Look at Gronholm. He looks like real character, he angry with the car, angry with his boss. He says what he think, "Up into a**hole of Timo" or "I am fed up with this car" or "Tell Corrado three is enough" or many thing like that. I not think he says for marketing or advertising. I think he say it because he think it.

Gigi also, he got it. Maybe too little self control, but he god it. He alittle crazy. But it dont look like he force it.

I think many driver are too unconfident outside car. I sometimes pity guys like JML. He has been driving since he was 4? I am not sure if he is living his life or living papa's life. (I dont mean offence, sorry if sounds like that)
Imagine doing something since you are 4 year old, every day every minuite and nothing else. Quite sad. Maybe people like him spend so much time in the car, under papa or somebodys supervision, they don't even act like poeple anymore?

Like said before in this thread, they have no real experiences. Just from papa's bank account, the lines papa writes, and do what he say. Thats why alot of young drivers are no good.

Armin seemed more charasmatic than JML, i think.

Sorry if i offend you. Just my opinion, you have your, i have mine. I share it. Have a nice day.

[tmx]

If he just do it for the money he wouldn't be putting down money to buy the Citroen and efforts set up his own team and make it on time to do the Norway Rally. I think you're just nitpicking everybody, and some of the them are not relevant. Marcus saying those things are meant as jokes that he makes, but that's why he is seen as down to earth and has many fans.

If Loeb isn't doing it for the money I welcome him to take up some challenge and go to another rally team (it's not going to happen). I'm going to piss of a lot of people with this comment, Loeb would rather get the best team and win only or quit rallying and try something else, it's because he is in high demand and the options are available to him. Loeb is anything, but shy in his interview.

[GigiGalliNo1]

When JML spoke less English I liked him (no offense to anyone in here) but now he actually is able to explain everything he wants.... and I don't like! :p

[Fischer]

Loeb also has charisma; he's the coolest of them all

[JFL]

I've followed the Solberg's since their early days, and if what they say or do is fake, then they have been fake for many years! Petter was a happy fellow who followed in his helpful brothers footsteps. Henning was also enthusiastic and happy... But he was also very helpful to his competitors. Petter was a little bit more self sentered, and we all know where that got him.. Fake? I dont think so mate.. ;) Maybe Petter is a better winner then looser, but then again....who is'nt?

[MJW]

Maybe Petter is a better winner then looser, but then again....who is'nt? Answer - losers, also known as those whose press releases dress it up as progress when they finish 6 mins behind in factory cars ( no mnames mentioned of course)

[J.Lindstroem]

hi i am retarded. i think that sordo very charesmatic driver is and person also because he drives red car. red is fine i think.

[Iskald]

hi i am retarded. i think that sordo very charesmatic driver is and person also because he drives red car. red is fine i think.

Oh, I thought you were spartanvg. No offense ;-). Sincerely ;-)

[GigiGalliNo1]

What about Loix and his Charisma?

:p

[Rollo]

What about Loix and his Charisma?

:p

http://koti.mbnet.fi/~rally/paradise/pics/2001/finland/sd_fl.jpg

What about it? It was a good car :D

[J.Lindstroem]

What about it? It was a good car :D

very charismatic car!

[Daniel]

What about Loix and his Charisma?

:p
It was a Carisma ;)

[GigiGalliNo1]

Daniel, damn it! I knew that was going to happen and I still posted it with the 'H' arggggg

Ah well :p

[A.F.F.]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/~rally/paradise/pics/2001/finland/sd_fl.jpg


That shot is taken from the first stage of Neste rally Finland. You wanna know how I know? Freddy's still on the road. :D

[AndyRAC]

That shot is taken from the first stage of Neste rally Finland. You wanna know how I know? Freddy's still on the road. :D

Ooh, that's harsh! ;)

There must be 2 Freddy's - the one who drove a Toyota Celica/Corolla and the one that crashed Mitsubishi Lancer/Carismas....

[Wasted Talent]

This is not from rallies but this guy for me has charisma.. That's something in Your eyes.. You don't have to say anything and the way you're is that atracts people..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIhGJyLR6TI

Well I think we need Mrs Patrese in the WRC!

WT