Bilingual Children

[Alexamateo]

Judging from posts I have read, many on the forum speak multiple languages in their respective households. My household is the same. I am from the US, and my wife is from Mexico, so we speak both English and Spanish(and yes, I am fluent!). We have two children, a girl who turned 3 Dec. 29, and a boy who turns 1 on Valentine's day. :)

Of course we want our children to speak both languages. To that end we speak Spanish in the home whenever possible, show children's videos in Spanish, read them Spanish children's books etc.

In spite of all this, it distresses my wife greatly, that our 3 year old is gravitating almost completely towards English. So much so, that I caught my wife speaking English to her the other day! :D (She didn't even realize it until I pointed it out.) I know our daughter understands Spanish. If you ask her a question or give instructions, she'll answer correctly or do the right thing, but she'll reply in English every time, and will only speak Spanish with great coaxing.

Does anyone else have this same experience with their children? And if so, What advice, if any would you give?

[tinchote]

My situation is not exactly the same in the sense that we both are native Spanish speakers. That makes speaking Spanish at home the natural choice, and the girls (8 and 6, the eldest two) are fluent in Spanish and, most important, they have never spoken in English to us. Our three-year-old has lived all her life in Canada (excepted a couple vacation trips to Argentina) and again never speaks in English to us. Of course there is a slight mixture, most likely when they don't know how to say a word in one language they use the other, and sometimes they mix the grammar (best example: one day my then 4-year-old daughter said "mi hermana fue a la nena's casa" :D )

To make things worse, we send the girls to French-immersion school. That was a great idea because now they move in an environment where being bilingual is the norm, so being tri-lingual is a non-issue. Our 8-year-old (who moved to Canada at 4) is now fluent in the three languages, including reading and writing.

From other people I know, the condition to keep the Spanish alive is to be strict at home. Of course I know she did it inadvertently, but what your wife did is the "terrible mistake": you should try and be strict in not allowing English at home. English is ever-present in North America, and kids don't need any help to get it. I know several cases of couples of native Spanish-speakers, whose children in North America don't speak Spanish. The common denominator in all those cases is that when kids speak in English to their parents they are answered normally (in Spanish!), and in some isolated cases (things like "stop that!" or "don't do that") they are admonished in English.

Final advice: vacation in Mexico (including playing a lot with Mexican kids) will help a lot. In our city, some people from the Latin-American community have organized a Spanish school on Saturdays: maybe there is something like that in your area. If you use daycare, finding a Spanish-speaking daycare could be of help too.

[Donney]

I'm Spanish, living in Spain and son to Spanish parents, so obviously I've never been in a situation where being bilingual is a possibility. But one of my best friends ' father is English and he always speaks English to his son as a result my friend is bilingual and when he switches to any of the languages you would swear he is a native speaker.

[millencolin]

i only just managed to pass first year high school french... then droped out and forgot everything that is french :p :

[donKey jote]

Hi alexamateo, I'd have to agree to a certain extent with the tin man...
there are many ways to bring kids up with several languages:
ml@h = minority language at home
OPOL = one parent one language
using particular languages in particular situations or times
the list is as long as the number of multilingual families in this world (it's more normal than you might think!)

... but the secret is to be consistent !

In our case, I used to only speak English (my mothertongue) to our kids, but find myself inadvertently talking more and more German (we live in Germany) to them as they only answer German back to me. Bit of a vicious circle. The main language at home is Spanish (I grew up in Spain), and the kids (and I) only speak Spanish to their Spanish mum .
As a result, they are bilingual Spanish/German but have only passive English.

My advice? Nag your missus to only speak Spanish to them, like my missus nags me (bless 'er) about English when she catches me speaking German to our two. Even speak Spanish to them yourself if you're confident enough in it.
Don't listen too much to any skeptics who might think it will confuse the kids or that their English will suffer from it: the majority language will prevail as soon as they start with school.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[Alexamateo]

My situation is not exactly the same in the sense that we both are native Spanish speakers. That makes speaking Spanish at home the natural choice, and the girls (8 and 6, the eldest two) are fluent in Spanish and, most important, they have never spoken in English to us. Our three-year-old has lived all her life in Canada (excepted a couple vacation trips to Argentina) and again never speaks in English to us. Of course there is a slight mixture, most likely when they don't know how to say a word in one language they use the other, and sometimes they mix the grammar (best example: one day my then 4-year-old daughter said "mi hermana fue a la nena's casa" :D )

To make things worse, we send the girls to French-immersion school. That was a great idea because now they move in an environment where being bilingual is the norm, so being tri-lingual is a non-issue. Our 8-year-old (who moved to Canada at 4) is now fluent in the three languages, including reading and writing.

From other people I know, the condition to keep the Spanish alive is to be strict at home. Of course I know she did it inadvertently, but what your wife did is the "terrible mistake": you should try and be strict in not allowing English at home. English is ever-present in North America, and kids don't need any help to get it. I know several cases of couples of native Spanish-speakers, whose children in North America don't speak Spanish. The common denominator in all those cases is that when kids speak in English to their parents they are answered normally (in Spanish!), and in some isolated cases (things like "stop that!" or "don't do that") they are admonished in English.

Final advice: vacation in Mexico (including playing a lot with Mexican kids) will help a lot. In our city, some people from the Latin-American community have organized a Spanish school on Saturdays: maybe there is something like that in your area. If you use daycare, finding a Spanish-speaking daycare could be of help too.

Thank you Tinchote. We will be more diligent in speaking Spanish in house. We do plan to take many vacations in Mexico to visit their many cousins. I can envision them spending whole summers in Mexico when they are a little older. It may also mean doing other little things like attending mass in Spanish. (For us that means a 30 minute drive downtown as opposed to 5 minutes for our church now.) You've also given me an idea. My daughter does attend "Mother's Day Out" twice a week. (It is in English though, I am not sure Memphis is cosmopolitan enough to have multicutural schools although we will certainly check more closely.) We spoke this morning and maybe she could organize her own "Mother's Day out" group with her own Latina friends, with each mother taking turns careing for the group of children. There's a whole group here, mainly from Mexico and Venezuela (No Argentinos though :p : )

[Alexamateo]

I'm Spanish, living in Spain and son to Spanish parents, so obviously I've never been in a situation where being bilingual is a possibility. But one of my best friends ' father is English and he always speaks English to his son as a result my friend is bilingual and when he switches to any of the languages you would swear he is a native speaker.

When my wife and I were dating, I was flying back, and she told me "hay un paisano tuyo" on my flight. As fate would have it, I sat next to him on the plane, but he wasn't American, he was a Mexican born to a German father and Mexican mother. He grew up in Switzerland in a part where they speak French. He spoke German, Spanish, English, French and a little Italian. When we got off the plane, he introduced me to his mother and grandmother. His mother told me the best gift her husband gave her was to speak Spanish in the house, so that their children would speak her native tongue.

[Alexamateo]

i only just managed to pass first year high school french... then droped out and forgot everything that is french :p :

My advice is, if you want to speak French, then get a French Girlfriend! :p :

[tinchote]

There's a whole group here, mainly from Mexico and Venezuela (No Argentinos though :p : )

Nah, you don't want your kids to get any Argentinean Spanish: it's probably the most twisted of them all ;) :D

[Alexamateo]

Hi alexamateo, I'd have to agree to a certain extent with the tin man...
there are many ways to bring kids up with several languages:
ml@h = minority language at home
OPOL = one parent one language
using particular languages in particular situations or times
the list is as long as the number of multilingual families in this world (it's more normal than you might think!)

... but the secret is to be consistent !

In our case, I used to only speak English (my mothertongue) to our kids, but find myself inadvertently talking more and more German (we live in Germany) to them as they only answer German back to me. Bit of a vicious circle. The main language at home is Spanish (I grew up in Spain), and the kids (and I) only speak Spanish to their Spanish mum .
As a result, they are bilingual Spanish/German but have only passive English.

My advice? Nag your missus to only speak Spanish to them, like my missus nags me (bless 'er) about English when she catches me speaking German to our two. Even speak Spanish to them yourself if you're confident enough in it.
Don't listen too much to any skeptics who might think it will confuse the kids or that their English will suffer from it: the majority language will prevail as soon as they start with school.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

Thanks DonKey. No problems getting my wife to speak Spanish to the kids. She hates speaking English and is actually penosa speaking it. I am confident about speaking Spanish myself. We married in Mexico por la iglesia and I went through las platicas there etc. I do have a marked American accent though and I am not able to say the "rr" even if my life depended on it. :laugh:

My parents do worry about the kids not learning English, but you are right, the majority language comes crashing through. Just look at what is happening with my daughter only going to mother's day out twice a week.

[Alexamateo]

Nah, you don't want your kids to get any Argentinean Spanish: it's probably the most twisted of them all ;) :D

Actually, I can imitate different accents. I'll have our Latino friends rolling on the floor, imitating Argentinean, los Chilangos (people from Mexico City), or using Mexican slang. I don't know if it's because I'm that good or that it's hilarious hearing a gringo talk like that :) :D ;)

[janvanvurpa]

hi Alex.
I was born into a household where Spanish was spoken by my Mom and her aunts and then her brother and sisters as they all came to live with us to get their feet on the ground, and supposedly "learn English".
I can say the the major factor which will decide if the Spanish is carried forward in life is when the two dominant influence begin to work on the kids: school and TV.
From watch my little cousins come and within 18 months loose ALL Spanish, it was clear to me even as a kid, it was the combination of TV and when they became submerged in school---which you can't control.
I was an immigrant myself 35 years ago and listened to coworksers, Greeks, Jugoslavians, Turks, Poles, Hungarians , Spanish, Chilenos etc all lament that their kids "were becoming Swedes", and not justr language but cultural values as well.
Now I have a lovely little 23 month old baby and a wonderful sweet wife and the question becomes (actually she's already decided) Mandarin, or Cantonese.
And the darling baby actually already is speaking simple sentences in Mandarin to her, and straight English to me.

It's a hard thing to maintain in a increasingly monolithic culture.

Good luck---all signs show that bi and multi-lingual speakers do far better in many many acedemic pursuits, and nobody can argue their cultural expericences are far wider.

Now

[Alexamateo]

Thanks John for your comments, and good luck with your own family. My wife befriended a young Chinese girl who was our neighbor, taking her to English as a second language classes. I agree about cultural experiences being wider as we ate some of the strangest food in their house. I value all those experiences because not everyone gets to see these different sides of life. Our neighbors have since moved, but they had a little baby of their own recently. I am sure they, like you are trying to raise the child to experience both cultures.

[fandango]

Right, here we go, I'll see your three language households and raise it to four! My three-year-old daughter also makes jokes about my inability to rrrr, but she has no problem switching between Basque, English, Catalan and Spanish. It depends who she's talking to, Basque with her mother, English with me, Catalan in school and Spanish with some other people. My other daughter's just about to turn one, but she's showing signs of understanding all four languages as well.

I agree with those who say you have to be consistent. Sometimes my daughter will say something in another language, or call something its name in another language, and even though I know what she's saying I make her change to English. It's like a little game really. The starnge thing is that often she seems most comfortable with Catalan, which we don't speak at home. The other odd thing is that she doesn't speak English to her little sister. The outside world is a big influence, but in the end kids just seem to take it all in.

[oily oaf]

I've just spent the last half hour teaching my 5 year old grandaughter to count to 20 in Portuguese

Ganho cinco libras? :D

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I'm fluent in cumbrian dialect ;)

Bet you can't count to 20 in that, Mr. Oaf?

[oily oaf]

Right, here we go, I'll see your three language households and raise it to four! My three-year-old daughter also makes jokes about my inability to rrrr, but she has no problem switching between Basque, English, Catalan and Spanish. It depends who she's talking to, Basque with her mother, English with me, Catalan in school and Spanish with some other people. My other daughter's just about to turn one, but she's showing signs of understanding all four languages as well.

I agree with those who say you have to be consistent. Sometimes my daughter will say something in another language, or call something its name in another language, and even though I know what she's saying I make her change to English. It's like a little game really. The starnge thing is that often she seems most comfortable with Catalan, which we don't speak at home. The other odd thing is that she doesn't speak English to her little sister. The outside world is a big influence, but in the end kids just seem to take it all in.

Quite incredible Fanny
Another example of the little people exposing us for the slow witted dolts that we truly are. :(

[oily oaf]

I'm fluent in cumbrian dialect ;)

Bet you can't count to 20 in that, Mr. Oaf?

Give it another few hours until I get back from the boozer and I'll give a bloody good go mate ;)

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Give it another few hours until I get back from the boozer and I'll give a bloody good go mate ;)

I'll jump on a train and go for a couple of jugs with ye!

[BeansBeansBeans]

I can only speak English and Geordie.

[Eki]

Thanks to oily, I've started to learn Cockney:

http://www.thornton-cleveleys.co.uk/cockney.htm

[donKey jote]

The starnge thing is that often she seems most comfortable with Catalan, which we don't speak at home. The other odd thing is that she doesn't speak English to her little sister. The outside world is a big influence, but in the end kids just seem to take it all in.

I was wandering when you'd show up in this thread :D
Why don't you speak Irish to them instead? They'll learn English soon enough in school anyway :p :.

Seriously now, I don't think that's odd if she spends a fair amount of time at school. The school language seems to be "kids" language, as opposed to "ma language" or "pa language". You'll probably find that the kids end up speaking mostly catalan to each other, and that the younger will be slightly less comfortable for a while in the other languages as a result.

Our kids tend towards German together, and my daughter (6) is less comfortable in English than my son (8). Even my sister still tends to slide into Spanish (our school language) with me, although we speak English at my parents'.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[tinchote]

Regarding the "inter-kid" language, what our daughters do is: they play in English, but they fight in Spanish :D

If you think about it, it's very reasonable: English is the language all kids speak, and Spanish is the language we speak at home.

[EuroTroll]

This thread is really very interesting. :) Makes me want to marry a Russian girl. :p :

[Firstgear]

I 'd like to add a couple of things to all the good suggestions Tin & others have made.

I grew up speaking German at home, but really grew to resent the German language because my parents sent me to German school on Saturdays. While most of my friends got to play or watch cartoons on Saturday mornings, I was in school. The main thing I learnt from German school on Saturdays was to hate the German language. So, although Tin had alot of good advise, I'd advise against sending your children to a place where learning & speaking the language becomes a chore. For me, it felt almost like a punishment.

The opposite of the school thing would be the "Mexico vacation" idea. And what is even better is a student exchange program. When I was in highschool I participated in a German Exchange program. We had a German student come to Canada and live with us for three months, and later I went to live with his family for three months. One of the best experiences I've ever had, eventhough my exchange partner and I didn't have much in common and didn't always get along very well. There's no better way to learn a language (and culture) than to be totally emerced in it.

Now that I have three young children of my own, my wife and I are trying to pass on the German language to them. It's not always easy (our German had gotten quite rusty) but if you start when the kids are young, you can relearn the language as your children learn it.

Our kids slip into English quite often, but instead of scolding them my wife has come up with a hand signal (a motion similar to turning on an old radio knob). The kids know that this means "flip your toungue" to the other language.

Good luck, there's lots of benifits to knowing a second language (even one as useless as German in North America)

[EuroTroll]

Good luck, there's lots of benifits to knowing a second language (even one as useless as German in North America)

Absolutely! And a third, and a fourth. ;) The world consists of thousands of languages. Might as well know a few. ;)

[oily oaf]

Thanks to oily, I've started to learn Cockney:

http://www.thornton-cleveleys.co.uk/cockney.htm

Gertcha! :D

Read it and inwardly digest it young man. I'll be asking questions later :mad:

That's actually a pretty good site Eki as most of the terms used are kosher rhyming slang although there are one or two rather spurious ones where a little bit of imagination and poetic licence has been deployed

Sadly this uniquely London trait is dying out a bit these days as the young "saucepans" tend to favour a type of ba$tardised Jamaican patois to get the point across.
If you want to hear it spoken nowadays go down to one of the London meat or fish markets or some of the old style boozers and spielers around the East End where even I have a job understanding 'em.
I still lace my everyday speech quite liberally with rhyming slang although by and large I tend to avoid using it overmuch on here as it does tend to prevent people knowing what I'm banging on about, although some might venture that that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing :D
I picked it up from my old grandad, a real East London cockney who could also speak the bewildering "backslang" another singularly cockney "gift"

'old up I just 'ad a butchers at me kettle and it's nearly time to nip up to the ben for a bobsquash and a pony before putting on me whistle, sticking me titfer on me Uncle Ned and going for a ball and chalk dahn the rub a dub for a sharpner. Penny to a quid I'll end up elephants.

A moody jacks (counterfeit five pound note) to the first geezer or old sort to decipher that little lot.
Be lucky :D

[Woodeye]

'old up I just 'ad a butchers at me kettle and it's nearly time to nip up to the ben for a bobsquash and a pony before putting on me whistle, sticking me titfer on me Uncle Ned and going for a ball and chalk dahn the rub a dub for a sharpner. Penny to a quid I'll end up elephants.

I've always thought that my english is at least above the average, but I got to say that I have absolute no idea of what's that about.

A guy put's a butcher on his teapot, squeeshes ben's nipples with a horde of Bob's riding their ponys, then goes playing football with his uncle before going to pub and tossing a quid to elephant on the way there? :D

[oily oaf]

I've always thought that my english is at least above the average, but I got to say that I have absolute no idea of what's that about.

A guy put's a butcher on his teapot, squeeshes ben's nipples with a horde of Bob's riding their ponys, then goes playing football with his uncle before going to pub and tossing a quid to elephant on the way there? :D

Pretty close Woody but no cigar :bandit:

NEXT! :mad:

[tinchote]

I 'd like to add a couple of things to all the good suggestions Tin & others have made.

I grew up speaking German at home, but really grew to resent the German language because my parents sent me to German school on Saturdays. While most of my friends got to play or watch cartoons on Saturday mornings, I was in school. The main thing I learnt from German school on Saturdays was to hate the German language. So, although Tin had alot of good advise, I'd advise against sending your children to a place where learning & speaking the language becomes a chore. For me, it felt almost like a punishment.



I forgot to mention that we don't send our girls to that school! :D

Something that you mention I forgot and that is the fact that many people have told me about kids resenting the parental language when in the teenage years. Vacation (and friends) is probably the best solution to that, as it makes the language useful for something else than being grounded.

[tintin]

I didn't have the benefit of multilingual parents - they both only spoke English, so I was seven before I started learning another language.

However by the time I left school I was thinking (and dreaming) in German.

Sadly since then I've not had an opportunity to use German (or French, which I could speak reasonably well) and I do notice how it's drifting away.

I can still write or speak either language if necessary, although more and more often I can't remember a certain word. But understanding other people speaking is a real struggle, simply because for over a decade I haven't.

So if I ever have children, I'm going to make sure that they are immersed in several languages from birth.

[J4MIE]

When I was at school learning French I had no interest in learning it whatsoever - why would I ever need to use French??

Of course, these days I wish I'd paid more attention and actually learned it rather than the odd few "traveller" sentences. Part of the problem was the teaching, in my 2 year standard grade course my french teacher was off for about 14 months, we had an english teacher stand in instead. Didn't help really, but didn't have a clue at the time.

Problem is, I just don't have enough time to really attempt to learn any other languages at the moment, though I would love to :( I hope I have the chance to live abroad some day and no doubt that would really force you to learn the language of the country.

My little brother is doing languages at school, and as with every other class he takes he is really good at it :mad: He is learning both German and Spanish, and is doing really well by all accounts... very depressing for me ;)

[jso1985]

Nah, you don't want your kids to get any Argentinean Spanish: it's probably the most twisted of them all ;) :D

No señor! I easily understand any LatinAmerican variant of Spanish with the exception of Chilean Spanish, do they have to talk so fast? :crazy: and what the bloody hell is "cachai" supossed to mean? :s

[donKey jote]

This thread is really very interesting. :) Makes me want to marry a Russian girl. :p :

Ah studiose, get to know as many girls from as many different cultures as you possibly can, and then marry the one with the nicest tongue :)

Sorry I forgot multilingual puns tend not to work too well in English, back to me stables it is :dozey:

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[tintin]

Ah studiose, get to know as many girls from as many different cultures as you possibly can, and then marry the one with the nicest tongue :)

Sorry I forgot multilingual puns tend not to work too well in English, back to me stables it is :dozey:

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

That works in English... ;)

[tinchote]

That works in English... ;)

Indeed! :D

[GridGirl]

My dad comes from a French speaking island, but living in England and having an English mother I've only ever spoke English at home. My french was pretty decent when I regularly visited Mauritius and got to speak French often. In recently years my only opportunity to speak French has been when I've driven through France on the way to a GP. My French is now terrible, and I really struggle to have a conversation with my grandma who is in her 80's and speaks little English. I wish I'd had the opportunity to speak more French, and now wish I was still bilingual.

[Bebee]

Well, our house is literally in a mess when it comes to this!

My Dad's (he went to an English-medium school) fluent in English and Marathi, although he can speak in Afrikaans, Hindi (but it's quite crap) and Urdu (crap but only speaks because my Mum's made him). My Mum (she went to an Urdu-medium school) on the other hand is really fluent in Urdu, her English is okay but Hindi's just a wee bit better than Dad's.

Anyway, my brother and I usually speak English at home. Although we do speak in Marathi when we really, really have to (ie family members who can't speak English). I was able to speak Indonesian and Malay when I was in school, but I can't now since I'm totally out of practice. I generally avoid talking in Urdu or Hindi at all costs, except on occassions when I'm in India.

A lot of my Mum's Indian friends used to complain about us speaking in English instead of Urdu (since most of them really do suck at Marathi), and it pisses me off because they judge us like we haven't been raised properly. :angryfire I guess the big thing they don't understand that about 25 years ago, the Indian community in Australia was not the size it is today. For most of my childhood (before I was going to school), I used to be with a babysitter as my parents were studying Nursing. We used to leave the house at 6am to be dropped off at a babysitter, and be picked up around 8pm. Once I was at school, most of the time I'd have to stay with the neighbours till my folks got back home.

As for the lot of have been living here for a really long time, they complain about it, too... But then they forget that either: a) only one of the parents worked, or b) both parents were unemployed. :rolleyes:

Anyway, back to the topic. From my experience (ie the one they tried to fix :p : ), I've found that the visits back home for a few months work best. :)

[Alexamateo]

I'd like to say thanks to everyone who reponded, and I also got help from an unexpected source, people who grew up in houses speaking multiple languages! To tell the truth I think it's fascinating to hear all the different experiences people have had. For me learning another language makes me see the world differently. I also appreciate and listen to English differently too. I guess it goes without saying that if we all travelled more and spoke each other's languages, we'd all get along a little better in this world. Thanks again everyone. :)

[Eki]

I guess it goes without saying that if we all travelled more and spoke each other's languages, we'd all get along a little better in this world.
Amen to that.

[tinchote]

I guess it goes without saying that if we all travelled more and spoke each other's languages, we'd all get along a little better in this world. Thanks again everyone. :)

:up: :)

[pino]

In spite of all this, it distresses my wife greatly, that our 3 year old is gravitating almost completely towards English. So much so, that I caught my wife speaking English to her the other day! :D (She didn't even realize it until I pointed it out.) I know our daughter understands Spanish. If you ask her a question or give instructions, she'll answer correctly or do the right thing, but she'll reply in English every time, and will only speak Spanish with great coaxing.

Does anyone else have this same experience with their children? And if so, What advice, if any would you give?

I am italian and married to a french/danish woman, and I decided to speak in italian to my kids from the very first moment they were born. My wife agreed with me because she talks in danish with them, and because they learn and talk danish at school. However when I am at home we all talks in italian, unless we have visitors, but as soon I leave, my wife and my kids are talking in danish again. I am happy and proud that my kids now can talk both italian, danish, and english (they start to learn it very soon in Danmark)

My advice to you ? Spend more time with your kids and continue to speak in Spanish to them, soon they will only answer you in that language ;)

[Storm]

Although we do speak in Marathi ..

You can't! we proved it once :p :

You are probably the only member on this forum with whom I can possibly speak to in Marathi :)

[Donney]

I guess it goes without saying that if we all travelled more and spoke each other's languages, we'd all get along a little better in this world. Thanks again everyone. :)

I could not agree more :up:

I have had the chance to learn and improve my english thanks to the kindness of many families in England and in the USA who opened their home to me and let me spend some time with them.
That is a wonderful experience who everyone in the world should live given the chance.

[jso1985]

. I guess it goes without saying that if we all travelled more and spoke each other's languages, we'd all get along a little better in this world.

post of the year :) :up: