Dale Jr - NO friggin talent!!!

[Fred Basset]

:laugh:

thanks for taking out half the race Jnr :rolleyes:

Oh and before you Jnr lovers get on here blaming the Red Bull car, if Jnr is a good guy or had talent, he would of backed off the throttle just a touch rather than tip Vickers round.. there was no need for that. :rolleyes:

[Andrewmcm]

Not the smartest idea in the world....

[savage86]

never seen jnr do anything like that before its very unlike him. I guess everyone has their limits and Dale just got angry

[PitMarshal]

What annoys me is not so much the wreck as the people involved in it. Some big names taken out there.

[Fred Basset]

2, 48, 18 and 99 (if that still Edwards number) to name a few.

[e2mtt]

But at least Kyle Busch is out! Shame about the collateral damage though.

[e2mtt]

I'm kidding of course.

It was close really, I thought Vicker's move was pretty poor too, and Dale may not have meant to to turn him, only tuck back in.

Is Nascar going to black flag him?

[pdalbey]

Someone please explain how this was different from the accident that resulted in a 5 lap penalty in the Busch race?

[muggle not]

Vickers almost put Jr into the grass.

[Fred Basset]

I'm kidding of course.

It was close really, I thought Vicker's move was pretty poor too, and Dale may not have meant to to turn him, only tuck back in.

Is Nascar going to black flag him?


Vickers move was legal, he was the lucky dog at that moment. Jnr could've backed off but his temper got the better of him... again :rolleyes:

[slorydn1]

Someone please explain how this was different from the accident that resulted in a 5 lap penalty in the Busch race?

Simple, beacuse it was JR

[harvick#1]

Vickers almost put Jr into the grass.

Vickers blocked him, Jr drove right back up and clipped him,

when dick asked jr if it was accidental, jr even stumbled for a good bit


but once again awesome job by Harvick, and Bowyer. looks like a good pick Muggle with that 29, cool to see the roles reversed from the 07 500, I'm very happy to see Matt get the win

[Fred Basset]

Simple, beacuse it was JR

Hi Slo! :wave:

[Shifter]

To play devil's advocate, having seen Jr's onboard camera I have to think that perhaps Jr, in these cars that are designed to only turn left, was on a dirty surface below the yellow line, and was afraid that if he backed out of the throttle with the wheel turned slightly right that the car would snap around on him. That's just my thinking, and I'm not a Jr fan. In fact, to avoid controversy the should have just made him restart at the end of the leader line of cars.

[jslone]

Bottom line as much as I like JR,he did make a bonehead move,and he admitted it was a bonehead move.

[AndyRAC]

What a plank!!
Completely ruins the race, and gets no penalty..........

..work that out. Oh yeah, he's called Earnhardt......

[ShiftingGears]

What a plank!!
Completely ruins the race, and gets no penalty..........

..work that out. Oh yeah, he's called Earnhardt......

Pretty much. That was a dumb move.

[jeffmr2]

We've seen moves like this from Jr before,wrecking Kyle Busch at Kansas 2 years ago and Waltrip when they were team mates at Charlotte before that.He'll never get the puishment he deserves,its the same with ferrari in F1.

[tstran17_88]

NASCAR plays favorites...Jason Leffler was penalized five laps for the same thing June Bug did and I was saying this before Brian Vickers said it.

And karma is a bitch!!! There is no way Nascar wanted Jack Roush to win the biggest race, it's bad enough he won two championships, old way and new way!

[Fred Basset]

When Jnr finishes out of the top 15 this year for the chase, i'm waiting to see what plan Nascar will have for getting their little golden boy in to it.. there must be a way.. :rolleyes:

[call_me_andrew]

Vickers move was legal, he was the lucky dog at that moment. Jnr could've backed off but his temper got the better of him... again :rolleyes:

I'll agree. While it did seem odd that Vickers would try so hard to block with 200 miles to go, I can understand him wanting to defend his Lucky Dog postion. Hopefully having two lapped cars crash in front of the field at a plate track will make NASCAR rethink the rule.

I'd also like to remind everyone that NASCAR's policy is if a car is forced below the line, it should yield to the car forcing it. So Vickers had the right of way.

I'd also like to remind everyone that this is different from NASCAR's previous policy was to punish the blocking car in such a situation. Interesting that no one's pointed out that lack of consistency.

[El Libertador]

What annoyed me more was Darrell Waltrip being a total suck up and saying how honest and tell-it-like-it-is Dale Jr was. Stupidity doesn't even begin to describe that comment. How is "it's not my fault" telling it like it is?

Call me a baby, whatever you want, but today just reminded me why I stopped watching NASCAR. It's been 9 years, but it's finally time to just give it a rest. No use getting all worked up over something that's no more than a game.

[muggle not]

Try watching the kiddie cars then. Not everyone can understand Nascar.

[Fred Basset]

I'll agree. While it did seem odd that Vickers would try so hard to block with 200 miles to go, I can understand him wanting to defend his Lucky Dog postion. Hopefully having two lapped cars crash in front of the field at a plate track will make NASCAR rethink the rule.




The rain that was coming i would imagine.. Vickers needed to stay in front and blocked Jnr the legal way...

[Fred Basset]

Try watching the kiddie cars then. Not everyone can understand Nascar.

This is a crass statement coming from someone with a racing history. Take off your Jnr blinkers and you will see that Jnr was an idiot today wrecking the field with stupidity. He should of been black flagged. It happened in the Nationwide? race and so it should of happened to him too...
Your not DW in disguise are ya?? :rolleyes: :laugh:

[RaceFanStan]

Bottom line as much as I like JR,he did make a bonehead move,and he admitted it was a bonehead move.
Dale Jr has wanted to appear non-aggressive & projected the "good guy" clean driver image but ...
the move today that wrecked Vickers & numerous others was over-aggressive ...
I felt bad for Kyle Busch, he had the fastest car & probably would have won but ...
Dale Jr did something stupid & ruined the race for Brian Vickers, Kyle Busch & several other drivers ...
what is really sad is that nascar doesn't have the balls to properly penalize Dale Jr. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif

[e2mtt]

Jr. should have let Vickers clear. There isn't any doubt about that. As mentioned, it isn't the first time he has wrecked someone by hooking the back bumper. (Of course, he's been on the receiving end a few times too, Vickers at Talledega in '07 & Edwards at Atlanta in '04 spring to mind)

The thing that I didn't like is the big block down past the stripe by Vickers. It was ugly. If they were racing on a short track, what Vickers got would have been exactly what he deserved. Of course it would have been a harmless spin onto the apron, and he would be back racing in half a lap, rather then sliding up and wrecking 10 cars at nearly 200 mph.

[harvick#1]

Dale Jr has wanted to appear non-aggressive & projected the "good guy" clean driver image but ...
the move today that wrecked Vickers & numerous others was over-aggressive ...
I felt bad for Kyle Busch, he had the fastest car & probably would have won but ...
Dale Jr did something stupid & ruined the race for Brian Vickers, Kyle Busch & several other drivers ...
what is really sad is that nascar doesn't have the balls to properly penalize Dale Jr.

thats why I'm no longer a fan of his, he wont admit mistakes or wrongdoing, i'm surprised Earnhardt nation isn't ripping Eury again for jooyner going past the pits than pitting outside the box. then reading somethings how dumb some of his fans (yahoo) are saying it was 100% vickers fault.

what Jr did was completely wrong, and Nascar should've just parked him, of course being moron Jooyner fans at the track an official I'm sure didn't feel like getting attacked by the fans.

[PitMarshal]

Actually in hindsight it was quite a clever move. In one go he both got the Lucky Dog and took out several of his rivals...

On a serious note, I don't buy Joonyers excuse about wanting to avoid the grass. He was nowhere near it when he turned in, and it's not like he couldn't see where Vickers was. All he had to do was lift the throttle a hairds breadth. Over here we call that 'causing an avoidable accident' and it usually incures at least a fine and sometimes a race ban as well.

The thing is, as much as I would love to blame it on the "Jr can do no wrong" effect, Na$car have a real blind spot for this sort of thing. Anyone remember when someone (Stremme?) put Montoya in the wall in a similar fashion last year? IIRC all that happened was he got parked. It's obviously going to take another driver to get badly hurt before driving standards start getting looked at properly.

I do wonder though if thet spotter should be taking some blame for Jr's poor day - apart from anything else there were 42 other drivers out there who had no difficulty finding their pitbox...

[DanicaFan]

All the pit mistakes made by Dale were his fault. No question. I have been saying for years now, he is way overrated. He is an average driver living off of his father's name.

He will never be as good as Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon, Carl Edwards, Tony Stewart, Kyle Busch, etc.

[colinspooky]

Well. Everyone saying Vickers made a legal move. Sadly, I don't think he did. It started out legal - moved over as Jr arrived.

BUT, Junior was NEXT TO the rear of his car, and he continued to move over. That surely is not a legal move. If the cars overlap, only a moron would continue the block.

That said, these guys are doing over 180mph in a tight pack on a bouncey road with cars equipped with marshmallow suspensions.

I don't blame Vickers, but strictly, it was his fault. Junior should not have clipped him on the way back onto the track.

But once again, the speed, the cars, the surface, all conspire against him. Should he have let off the power more? Of course, but that's hindsight talking.

Vickers made a mistake physically pushing him off the racing surface. Junior made a mistake getting back on.

Call it even I say. Both wrong, but hey...... human frailities and all that.

And to be honest, this is only a big issue because of what happened when Vickers turned sideways.

First race of the season - high tension - angry moods - none of this helps keep a cool head.

Just my feelings.

:p :

[Alexamateo]

This is a crass statement coming from someone with a racing history. Take off your Jnr blinkers and you will see that Jnr was an idiot today wrecking the field with stupidity. He should of been black flagged. It happened in the Nationwide? race and so it should of happened to him too...
Your not DW in disguise are ya?? :rolleyes: :laugh:

With all due respect, Muggle may have Junior blinkers, but you come across as blind with hatred.

A few points, Like the NBA, stars are given the benefit of the doubt, Junior won't be penalized for yesterday, Tony Stewart won't have his victory taken away from him at Talladega last year. Back in the day, AJ Foyt just has his qualifying time disallowed for using nitrous, but DK Ulrich is suspended for 2 months.

Yeah, Junior made a dumb mistake and caused the big one, just like Carl Edwards did at Talladega last fall, just like Jimmie Johnson did in 2007 in one of the plate races, just like Jeff Gordon did a couple of years ago, and so on and so on.

[wedge]

With all due respect, Muggle may have Junior blinkers, but you come across as blind with hatred.

A few points, Like the NBA, stars are given the benefit of the doubt, Junior won't be penalized for yesterday, Tony Stewart won't have his victory taken away from him at Talladega last year. Back in the day, AJ Foyt just has his qualifying time disallowed for using nitrous, but DK Ulrich is suspended for 2 months.

Yeah, Junior made a dumb mistake and caused the big one, just like Carl Edwards did at Talladega last fall, just like Jimmie Johnson did in 2007 in one of the plate races, just like Jeff Gordon did a couple of years ago, and so on and so on.

How can you forget about Tony Stewart?

He can be a complete A-hole at times but wait a minute, he's got a couple of championships in on his NASCAR resume. So I guess that makes him dumb and talentless as well!!!!

[slorydn1]

Hi Slo! :wave:

Hey Fred! :wave: :beer:

[e2mtt]

How can you forget about Tony Stewart?

He can be a complete A-hole at times but wait a minute, he's got a couple of championships in on his NASCAR resume. So I guess that makes him dumb and talentless as well!!!!

Like 2 years at Daytona... Tony spends all of Speedweeks complaining about safety, then goes runs into Kenseth and blantenly pushes him into the grass at full speed in the race.

[chuck34]

Hey all, I don't post over here much, and I only watch NASCAR every once in a while. But I must say that I don't think that was too much Jr's fault. I am by no means a Jr fan, but I don't think he did anything on purpose.

He got pushed down below the yellow line by Vickers. How THAT is not illegal, I'll never know. Then he backed off a fraction, which kills these cars with plates. He thought he had Vickers cleared, so he moved back up into line. Sure he could have backed off a bit more, but that would have completely killed any momentum he had putting him all the way back.

So in my watching that it was a really stupid move by Vickers to force him down there, and then Jr was maybe a bit impatient to pull back up into line. Nothing intentional that I could see (on Jr's part anyway).

Also, in the interview right after the race Jr didn't even know Vickers was a lap down, so he would have thought he was the Lucky Dog anyway.

[harvick#1]

Vickers was trying to stay first car alap down, Jr must have the communications to know that (through spotter or CC) Vickers was making sure he wouldn't be forced in the middle and be a sitting duck.

yes, the block is wrong, but every driver does it in the race, what they dont do is what Jr did, and that wreck a guy on purpose because his ego couldn't contain it. Jr should've been parked for being that retarted, that was just about as bad when Stremme took out JPM in Texas. Nascar really , and I mean really harshly penalize drivers doing this on high speed tracks. Nascar did nothing, no penalty nothin, Jr and Jr fans will always blame it on someone else, just like the pit road F-ups only Jr made. he needs to end the smug, mister nice guy "blames everything but himself" attitude

[chuck34]

Vickers was trying to stay first car alap down, Jr must have the communications to know that (through spotter or CC) Vickers was making sure he wouldn't be forced in the middle and be a sitting duck.

yes, the block is wrong, but every driver does it in the race, what they dont do is what Jr did, and that wreck a guy on purpose because his ego couldn't contain it. Jr should've been parked for being that retarted, that was just about as bad when Stremme took out JPM in Texas. Nascar really , and I mean really harshly penalize drivers doing this on high speed tracks. Nascar did nothing, no penalty nothin, Jr and Jr fans will always blame it on someone else, just like the pit road F-ups only Jr made. he needs to end the smug, mister nice guy "blames everything but himself" attitude

Don't mean to get so involved in this one. So after this, I'm done.

Yes Jr's spotter should have told him about Vickers also being a lap down. But in that first interview he genuinly didn't seem to know that. Maybe he was lying, I don't know, it's just my impression.

If the blcok is/was wrong why not heavily penalize the blocker? That would stop all this where it starts.

How can you say that Jr did this on purpose? Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. But it is just as plausable that he just plain misjudged how much distance was between his front and Vickers rear. Maybe it was red-mist, or maybe it was just a plain mis-judgement (how easy is it to see out of the front of these cars?), but I can't rule out the possibility of an honest mistake. Just as I can't really rule out the possibility it was on purpose. It's just that this being a true accident seems more plausable to me from his discription and seeing it from all the angles they had.

[Fred Basset]

How can you forget about Tony Stewart?

He can be a complete A-hole at times but wait a minute, he's got a couple of championships in on his NASCAR resume. So I guess that makes him dumb and talentless as well!!!!


Alex.. blind with hatred me? :laugh: Nope.. just seen Jnr get away with too much for too long and yesterday was another example...


Wedge.. What would Jnr give for 2 wins in a season let alone 2 championships? :laugh:

[Fred Basset]

Well. Everyone saying Vickers made a legal move. Sadly, I don't think he did. It started out legal - moved over as Jr arrived.

BUT, Junior was NEXT TO the rear of his car, and he continued to move over. That surely is not a legal move. If the cars overlap, only a moron would continue the block.

That said, these guys are doing over 180mph in a tight pack on a bouncey road with cars equipped with marshmallow suspensions.

I don't blame Vickers, but strictly, it was his fault. Junior should not have clipped him on the way back onto the track.

But once again, the speed, the cars, the surface, all conspire against him. Should he have let off the power more? Of course, but that's hindsight talking.

Vickers made a mistake physically pushing him off the racing surface. Junior made a mistake getting back on.

Call it even I say. Both wrong, but hey...... human frailities and all that.

And to be honest, this is only a big issue because of what happened when Vickers turned sideways.

First race of the season - high tension - angry moods - none of this helps keep a cool head.

Just my feelings.

:p :


Perhaps the UK gets a different feed to us but this post is just wrong on so many levels and i could be all day replying, so i'll just back away from the laptop and sit in a corner and :laugh:

[e2mtt]

...

Wedge.. What would Jnr give for 2 wins in a season let alone 2 championships? :laugh:

Well for starters he'd give up his longtime number & sponsor, to get out of the abyss called DEI and go somewhere where he has a realistic chance.

[Fred Basset]

Well for starters he'd give up his longtime number & sponsor, to get out of the abyss called DEI and go somewhere where he has a realistic chance.

Umm i believe he has already done that all that for the last 14months or so... and he still can't win

[wedge]

Umm i believe he has already done that all that for the last 14months or so... and he still can't win

And neither has Jeff Gordon

[Fred Basset]

And neither has Jeff Gordon


JG has won more races in a season than Jnr's won in his whole Cop career :laugh:

To edit... i don't actually know if thats true, but it can't be far off :D

[wedge]

JG has won more races in a season than Jnr's won in his whole Cop career :laugh:

To edit... i don't actually know if thats true, but it can't be far off :D

Hendrick prepared better cars than DEI

[e2mtt]

I know ya'll are piling on, and don't really want the facts, but:

Dale Jr. has won 18 races. This ties him (w. Kurt Busch) for 6th most wins among active drivers.

Dale Jr. did win one race last year, which is the same number as Tony Stewart & Kurt Busch, and more then Jeff Gordon, Matt Kenseth, or Kevin Harvick.

The Hendricks switch has helped him. He was in contention last year, and spent much of the year 2nd in the points, behind only Kyle Busch. He did poorly in the chase, but so did all the Gibbs cars.

In the last 4 years with DEI, he twice finished 5th in the Chase points, and twice missed the Chase.

[Alexamateo]

I know ya'll are piling on, and don't really want the facts, but:

Dale Jr. has won 18 races. This ties him (w. Kurt Busch) for 6th most wins among active drivers.

Dale Jr. did win one race last year, which is the same number as Tony Stewart & Kurt Busch, and more then Jeff Gordon, Matt Kenseth, or Kevin Harvick.

The Hendricks switch has helped him. He was in contention last year, and spent much of the year 2nd in the points, behind only Kyle Busch. He did poorly in the chase, but so did all the Gibbs cars.

In the last 4 years with DEI, he twice finished 5th in the Chase points, and twice missed the Chase.


I also know folks are piling on, too, but I'll play along. I'll add that Junior was fourth in laps led last year behind only Carl Edwards, Kyle Busch and Jimmie Johnson, he's fast and led laps at short tracks, mile and a halfs, flat miles and plate tracks. He even led on the road course(he has a road course win in the Nationwide Series) and passed Kyle Busch under green. What he has been unable to do is to seal the deal and finish strong at the end of races, some of it's been on his crew and some of it's been on him.

Who he most compares to is probably Buddy Baker, a second generation son of a champion driver that never could seem to get it all together to win a championship. Buddy was always fast, but managed to lose more often when he should have won. In the book Fast as White Lightning, Author Kim Chapin wrote concerning Baker:
"...the problem, if he had one---and it was generally agreed that he did---was his awesome lack of judgement and sense of pace ... Although he lost frequently, he made up for it by losing spectacularly, often in the waning moments of a race." He goes on to write that Baker once moaned that he wished the races were 20 laps shorter, a sentiment I've also heard Dale Jr say.

Junior has talent, you don't win what he's won and contend as often as he does without it, but he does lack judgement oftentimes.

[Sparky1329]

Ah what the heck. I might as well toss in my two cents too.

I saw one driver pull a boneheaded move and a seconds later another driver pulled a boneheaded move. I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like it before in a Daytona 500 race. Oh wait. If memory serves me correctly I've seen various drivers pull boneheaded moves in every Daytona 500 that I've ever watched. It's called racing. :rolleyes:

[Hoss Ghoul]

Lot of beer filled bull on here!

That was a racing deal, plain and simple.

Vickers made a ridiculous block on a guy who had a huge run on him. Understandable though, because the rules allow it, and his position demanded it(lucky dog).

Earnhardt let out of the gas a ton, look at his closing rate, he could have probably passed Vickers driving through the grass. Then he misjudged coming back up into line.

Simple as that. The idea that it was intentional is assinine, and so are the posters who claimed it to be.


Want to talk about something real? In what way has the "yellow line" rule prevented accidents at plate tracks? It is at least the same, or slightly worse than before the rule was implemented, makes passing more difficult/risky(imagine that, it narrows the track), and has not made big wrecks less frequent. What's the point of the rule then?

[Ranger]

Dale Jr broke a clearly stated rule and caused a 10-car crash.

Intentional or not, it deserved a penalty.

[slorydn1]

Want to talk about something real? In what way has the "yellow line" rule prevented accidents at plate tracks? It is at least the same, or slightly worse than before the rule was implemented, makes passing more difficult/risky(imagine that, it narrows the track), and has not made big wrecks less frequent. What's the point of the rule then?

Thank you! I made this argument the during the week after the Talladega race last year, to wit: http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=548393&postcount=31

No body seemed to really agree with me then, but this weekend there were two more wrecks were the yellow line rule at least partially contributed to hem; this one here, and the one in the NNS race when David Ragan dumped Mike Bliss in the trioval during the later stages of the race. In that deal it looked like Ragan finally did what a lot of Drivers have been saying the need to start doing. He put his left side tires in the line then didn't budge another inch when Bliss came down on him, and Bliss drove right across his nose. He could have lifted, but that would have cost him momentum and several positions on the track; or, he could have dropped down and passed him and been penalized for it. Instead Bliss penalized himself on Ragan's nose. I gave it a :up:

[Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left]

Thank you! I made this argument the during the week after the Talladega race last year, to wit: http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=548393&postcount=31

No body seemed to really agree with me then, but this weekend there were two more wrecks were the yellow line rule at least partially contributed to hem; this one here, and the one in the NNS race when David Ragan dumped Mike Bliss in the trioval during the later stages of the race. In that deal it looked like Ragan finally did what a lot of Drivers have been saying the need to start doing. He put his left side tires in the line then didn't budge another inch when Bliss came down on him, and Bliss drove right across his nose. He could have lifted, but that would have cost him momentum and several positions on the track; or, he could have dropped down and passed him and been penalized for it. Instead Bliss penalized himself on Ragan's nose. I gave it a :up:

I completely agree with you both. I think the backstraight especially should be a free for all on the bottom. Theres too many drivers using the line as an excuse to cut someone up when they have a run.

Now everyones had a say ill have mine, Vickers did something stupid and Dale Jr did something stupid in retaliating. For those calling for Jr's head, remember Vickers a couple of years ago at Dega and a last lap incident. I dont remember Vickers getting any penalty, infact he got his 1 trophy.

Now personally i think Jr should have just held his ground on the inside and if Vickers had kept coming and Jr had turned him, well so be it. Then we wouldnt all be having this discussion.

Alexamateo makes a good some good points, with regard to Jr's on track performance. I think Jr has lost his way a little bit, hes had a tremendous amount of pressure put on him from the media, fans and probably more importantly by himself. I think sunday was the product of a guy just trying too hard for his own good. A talentless hack, I dont think so.

[martini99]

Well NASCARS "Golden Boy" Dale Jr. left Daytona very tarnished. What a performance he put on , causing a major wreck that not only ruined a good race but cost alot of teams dollars that in this economy are hard to come by and also the potential of injurys or worse to the other competitors. He had a bad day and what was he racing for --he was lap down for Gods sake. He mantra must be " well if I caint win then duh others aint gonna win either".
He certainly looked scared during post race interviews-- maybe he was thinking of what a stupid move he made or possibly what may happen to him during the next race. Nascar couldnt help him this time with some fantom yellow flag to help bring their "most popular" driver to the front although they did not issue a penality for all four wheels below the double yellow line- typical for NASCAR. Jr. should realize that having whiskers on his face dosent make him a man like his Dad and also realize that he just dosent have it and retire to be a car owner and stop giving a disservice to his fathers legacy. Give it up dude!

[e2mtt]

I completely agree with you both. I think the backstraight especially should be a free for all on the bottom. Theres too many drivers using the line as an excuse to cut someone up when they have a run.

Now everyones had a say ill have mine, Vickers did something stupid and Dale Jr did something stupid in retaliating. For those calling for Jr's head, remember Vickers a couple of years ago at Dega and a last lap incident. I dont remember Vickers getting any penalty, infact he got his 1 trophy.

Good points about the stripe. Vickers said it in his interview, "We beat him to the stripe, thats the rules". However Dale had a big run on him, & the rules don't trump physics. The apron is a lousy place to race, but at least it's somewhere to go when you get a big push from behind, without having to worry about penalties & other problems they bring.

On a related note, Vickers could have avoided wrecking others if he had just turned left & spun into the infield. I think this part of the reason why we see more cautions these days. The cars handle better, are safer, the walls are softer, and the drivers are more daring. Therefore, they try a lot harder to drive out of spins. Sometimes this works, but other times they end up nosed hard into the outside wall, and collecting others, instead of sliding into the infield grass, and rejoining down a bit.

This is something they drill into rookies heads very hard at the Indy 500. If the car starts coming around on you, turn left and spin it down. Often you can drive away from it. If you turn right, into the spin, you just might catch the spin and find yourself headed towards the outside wall at a 45° angle at 200+mph.


Now personally i think Jr should have just held his ground on the inside and if Vickers had kept coming and Jr had turned him, well so be it. Then we wouldnt all be having this discussion.

Nah, we'de still be having this discussion. The guys who seem to think that Jr. just killed the Pope, the President, & Angelina Jolie would still be screaming bloody murder. They need to stick to watching wrestling & American Idol, where what you see is real, not all staged & fixed like Nascar.


Alexamateo makes a good some good points, with regard to Jr's on track performance. I think Jr has lost his way a little bit, hes had a tremendous amount of pressure put on him from the media, fans and probably more importantly by himself. I think sunday was the product of a guy just trying too hard for his own good. A talentless hack, I dont think so.

True.

Besides the 2 races Stan mentions, he also won the Bud Shootout & Daytona qualifier races last year.

[colinspooky]

Perhaps the UK gets a different feed to us but this post is just wrong on so many levels and i could be all day replying, so i'll just back away from the laptop and sit in a corner and :laugh:

Oh please - enlighten :confused:

[Fred Basset]

No can do.. not got the time. Business to run over here but all i will say is we get a ton more coverage and angles and bull and whatever else than you do over there on Sky. We get the full picture :bandit:

[Jag_Warrior]

All the pit mistakes made by Dale were his fault. No question. I have been saying for years now, he is way overrated. He is an average driver living off of his father's name.

He will never be as good as Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon, Carl Edwards, Tony Stewart, Kyle Busch, etc.

Even though I like the kid pretty well, Sunday was one of his worst days ever. And everything that I saw (I didn't catch 100% of the race) was his fault. As I understand the rules now, Vickers was in the right and Jr. wouldn't have a leg to stand on to defend what he did.

But now, as for him being an "average driver"... I didn't realize you could have the kinds of stats that he has and still be "average": 2 Busch champioships, 18 Cup wins and a Daytona 500 victory. I mean, it's not like he's won only one professional auto race in his entire life. :D

Nah, I wouldn't compare Jr. to Gordon, Johnson, Stewart or several others, but I still don't think he's average. To be in their league, he'd have to be among the best of the best. Course this past Sunday, he was well below average... he was just plain old bad. But I'm willing to wager that he'll win another Cup race before someone else, that we both hold near & dear to our hearts, wins again in any professional series (go karts and R/C cars don't count). Game? :s mokin:

[Stu_H]

No can do.. not got the time. Business to run over here but all i will say is we get a ton more coverage and angles and bull and whatever else than you do over there on Sky. We get the full picture :bandit:

So we get the complete Fox feed complete with Fox commentary PLUS when the Americans go to one of their many advert breaks Sky stay with the action with a voiceover from our studio guys so we see more action? Or am I not seeing something here?

[muggle not]

I also know folks are piling on, too, but I'll play along. I'll add that Junior was fourth in laps led last year behind only Carl Edwards, Kyle Busch and Jimmie Johnson, he's fast and led laps at short tracks, mile and a halfs, flat miles and plate tracks. He even led on the road course(he has a road course win in the Nationwide Series) and passed Kyle Busch under green. What he has been unable to do is to seal the deal and finish strong at the end of races, some of it's been on his crew and some of it's been on him.

Who he most compares to is probably Buddy Baker, a second generation son of a champion driver that never could seem to get it all together to win a championship. Buddy was always fast, but managed to lose more often when he should have won. In the book Fast as White Lightning, Author Kim Chapin wrote concerning Baker: He goes on to write that Baker once moaned that he wished the races were 20 laps shorter, a sentiment I've also heard Dale Jr say.

Junior has talent, you don't win what he's won and contend as often as he does without it, but he does lack judgement oftentimes.
I believe that all the BS you see posted is simply from fans? that don't like Jr and will not acknowledge his talent regardless how many wins he has or even if he was to win 3 consecutive championships. Remember, many still think that Johnson has no talent.

Back to Daytona, like Hoss stated. Simply a racing deal.

[e2mtt]

I believe that all the BS you see posted is simply from fans? that don't like Jr and will not acknowledge his talent regardless how many wins he has or even if he was to win 3 consecutive championships. Remember, many still think that Johnson has no talent.

Back to Daytona, like Hoss stated. Simply a racing deal.

Yeah, we know. I don't know if you saw, but this morning there was a whole additional page of Junior insults & witty comebacks, but the admins cleaned it up.

It is odd... much the way many Nascar fans are not fans of any other form of racing or motorsport, there are hardcore Junior fans AND haters who don't even seem to be Nascar fans. Their whole racing interest begins & ends with Dale Earnhardt Jr..

[NoahsGirl]

As a total rookie fan to NASCAR, I did think the accident was totally 50/50. A racing accident. Who on earth would think that anyone, let alone Jnr, would do that deliberately?

[colinspooky]

So we get the complete Fox feed complete with Fox commentary PLUS when the Americans go to one of their many advert breaks Sky stay with the action with a voiceover from our studio guys so we see more action? Or am I not seeing something here?

No, clearly all they allow us in England to see is the really bad bits of a race, a sort of second-class coverage - the bits that are really good are screened carefully because only clever Americans can deal them (why has Bassett got a UK flag on his name? - ex-pat?).

Anyway, it's important for us lesser Brits to understand is that we are not up to understanding the "ton more coverage and angles and bull and whatever else than you do over there on Sky. We get the full picture."

So just settle back and watch what the nice American telly producers feel we are able to absorb and whatever.

Oh my god, I am on the floor now.


:rotate:

[muggle not]

No, clearly all they allow us in England to see is the really bad bits of a race, a sort of second-class coverage - the bits that are really good are screened carefully because only clever Americans can deal them (why has Bassett got a UK flag on his name? - ex-pat?).

Anyway, it's important for us lesser Brits to understand is that we are not up to understanding the "ton more coverage and angles and bull and whatever else than you do over there on Sky. We get the full picture."

So just settle back and watch what the nice American telly producers feel we are able to absorb and whatever.

Oh my god, I am on the floor now.


:rotate:
Remember colinspooky, only one person made the post that you are responding to, not all of us U.S. citizens. :)

[wedge]

I also know folks are piling on, too, but I'll play along. I'll add that Junior was fourth in laps led last year behind only Carl Edwards, Kyle Busch and Jimmie Johnson, he's fast and led laps at short tracks, mile and a halfs, flat miles and plate tracks. He even led on the road course(he has a road course win in the Nationwide Series) and passed Kyle Busch under green. What he has been unable to do is to seal the deal and finish strong at the end of races, some of it's been on his crew and some of it's been on him.

Who he most compares to is probably Buddy Baker, a second generation son of a champion driver that never could seem to get it all together to win a championship. Buddy was always fast, but managed to lose more often when he should have won. In the book Fast as White Lightning, Author Kim Chapin wrote concerning Baker: He goes on to write that Baker once moaned that he wished the races were 20 laps shorter, a sentiment I've also heard Dale Jr say.

Junior has talent, you don't win what he's won and contend as often as he does without it, but he does lack judgement oftentimes.

Interesting assessment. Jr has talent but there seems to be a limit where I can't quite put my finger on.

The long race format/races too long - Jr/Eury Jr doesn't appear to be very good at chasing the set up on the car as good as JG or Johnson. JG and JJ crews have the ability to get the car dialled in for the last 100miles/100laps; with Jr he can be strong in the middle of the race but not quite enough at the end to get the win.


As a total rookie fan to NASCAR, I did think the accident was totally 50/50. A racing accident. Who on earth would think that anyone, let alone Jnr, would do that deliberately?

Everybody except his fan club are sick of the hype so naturally the criticism is somewhat OTT.

Red mist, heat of the moment, more likely he wanted to bumpdraft/love tap except the consequences was dire.

It wasn't intentional and different to what he did to Kyle Busch at Richmond rain delay race last year with greater impression of malicious intent.

[colinspooky]

Remember colinspooky, only one person made the post that you are responding to, not all of us U.S. citizens. :)

Hi
Mine and Stu-H's comments were directed at Bassett who for some reason thinks the UK actual race coverage is absolutely nothing like the US actual race coverage, which has confused both Stu-H and I. I was suggesting Bassett thinks we get an edited version as the race is actually happening, which strikes us both as odd.

[jeffmr2]

Ive just seen a poll on nascar scene daily asking who is at fault for the crash,81% of voters blamed Jr.I just wish nascar would do something to him to make me feel that all drivers are almost treated the same even if it was just make him start at the back of the pack for next race,its nascars lack of action that has annoyed me more than the actual crash jr caused.

[PitMarshal]

Well I've had a good look at the footage, and I still think it was Jr's fault, but I doubt it was a deliberate attempt to cause a wreck (and as someone who thinks he is massively overrated it really pains me to say that). The most telling view IMO is from the in-car camera.

Jr is stil behind Vickers when he starts to move down the track. Yes he is gaining at a heck of a rate, but there is still clear air between the two. In every form of racing I'm familiar with, the guy in front can (within reason) choose whatever line they like, and it is down to the person behind to miss them. Whether backing off would have lost Jr several places or caused a wreck behind him is largely irrelevant, it was ultimately down to him to get out of Vickers way, not vice versa.

If Jr had been alongside before Vickers moved, then as a previous poster suggested he could have planted his wheels on the yellow line, refused to budge, and we'd all be sitting here talking about the stupid move that Vickers made. Just a bad day in the office for Jr I think, made worse by the number of cars taken out or knocked down the order.

[wbcobrar]

I'll start off by saying I'm the farthest thing from a Jooonyar fan that there is , but I always find myself defending him here . One thing people forget is that in addition to trying to fill the shoes of a multi champion father , it was in this race that he lost his father . All speed weeks , and particularly in the 500 he made bonehead mistake after bonehead mistake , I think the pressure just gets too much for him at Datona .

[Stu_H]

Hi
Mine and Stu-H's comments were directed at Bassett who for some reason thinks the UK actual race coverage is absolutely nothing like the US actual race coverage, which has confused both Stu-H and I. I was suggesting Bassett thinks we get an edited version as the race is actually happening, which strikes us both as odd.

Completely, just Bassett's comments seemed very strange and was asking for an explanationwhich hasn't been forthcoming. Certainly not putting all US citizens in the same boat, otherwise I would be getting divorced from my American wife who lives over here!

[RaceFanStan]

I removed some of Fred Basset's posts & now he is miffed at me.
His posts didn't have any vulgar language or personal attacks ...
just some comments that probably would envoke some heated discussion.
At the time I felt it was going down a dangerous avenue but ...
in retrospect I feel I may have been too eager to delete them. Sorry Fred.
Hopefully he will forgive me what he considers to be a great injustice & return.

(I removed some other's posts that had name-calling etc in them, I also edited a couple of posts.)
(I hope that others aren't upset with me for stepping in & doing these things.)

Just so you know ...
Fred Basset is originally from the UK & moved to the US a couple of years ago.
So Fred Basset would be familar with the TV broadcasts in the UK.
=================================================
Remember, attack the post, not the poster, personal attacks, name-calling etc cannot be allowed.

[Fred Basset]

You know what i think Stan hence the PM's that went back and forth between us. Isn't that what a forum is all about.. "discussion"? And so for you to delete 2 posts of mine that asked a specific statistic question . Those posts broke no rules and i should know having spent as many years of my life as i did here before getting umm silenced :rolleyes: There was no nudity, swearing jabs at other posters, defamation (sp) no nothing in those posts and so to delete them to avoid "heated discussion" is silly.

Isn't that what a forum is for?? Heated discussion as long as its within guidelines? And anyway since the likes of me and BrownDog left here when the forum imploded a few years back... its never been the same and so i thought a post with lively, heated discsussion would be encouraged but looks like i was wrong if its to do with "Nascar Boy" :laugh:


Now to Colinspooky.. notice i use your full name rather than how you go about things.. I live in the US. I know what you see in UK as i've seen it and of course i know and see what we have here so don't get all full of your own self importance with me sunshine... :laugh:

[muggle not]

Freddie, you didn't leave the forum a few years ago, you were barred from it for trying to take members from this forum to another, among other reasons.

[Fred Basset]

Freddie, you didn't leave the forum a few years ago, you were barred from it for trying to take members from this forum to another, among other reasons.

Now now Muggle.. you know that your not quite telling the truth there. Yes i was banned and yes others left but i never recruited for no other forum.. i left forums completly.. if your gonna attack, do it right :laugh:
Don't bother fishing for a bite, cos you won't get it.. just felt i needed to correct you on your version of things


Oh and isn't "leave" and "banned" the same thing?? It is in my language :rolleyes:

[Stu_H]

So what did the TV broadcast in the States show that the Sky Sports (Fox) broadcast didnt? That's the reason I replied to the thread in the first place after comments made about us not seeing it as good as Fred.

We had it live, about 27,000 replays from the live view, in car with several drivers inc #88, overhead view, head-on view etc.

Just wondered how much more Fred saw!

[Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left]

As above I aint got a clue what he's on about. We in the UK saw the exact same feed as the guys in the states.

[Fred Basset]

where do you want to start? The hours of programming we get on Nascar on various channels for a start.. its been shown to death over here

[Stu_H]

where do you want to start? The hours of programming we get on Nascar on various channels for a start.. its been shown to death over here

This is your original quote:

"but all i will say is we get a ton more coverage and angles and bull and whatever else than you do over there on Sky. We get the full picture "

What it implied is that we cannot make a judgment as we havnt seen it. We do have the full race coverage, including the laps when you are on one of the numerous advert breaks. We also get Nascar Now everyday.

There is only so much coverage, so many angles and so much bull you can see before you have seen it all, and even if you hadn't seen all the extra coverage, the amount shown in the race would be enough for someone to form their own opinion.

[Fred Basset]

Yeah so?? Stop making a mountain out of a molehill.. :rolleyes:

[slorydn1]

Fred is the only one of the 30,938 members of this forum that I have actually met in person. My wife and I have never forgotten that day in May 2005 that we spent with Fred and his wife at RCR (and how starved we were afterwards as just about got lost on I-40 looking for a place to eat, ended up at the Olive Garden in Greensboro if I remember correctly).

Its said that people who post on forums are different than they are in real life, and to some extent that is possibly true. Its easy to hide behind your screen name and fight with other people, because what are they going to do back, right?

Fred is not one of those "Phony People." He is a huge racing fan, who is just as opinionated and funny in person as he is on here. He does have an "impish" side that sometime he can't leave well enough alone, and thats ok too, because so do I.

To our friends on the other side of the pond, Fred is one of you, right down to that funny accent of his. He was smart enough and worked hard enough to make enough pounds to convert to dollars to come over here and start his own business.

Sad part was is that I never got to find out how that worked out because soon after he moved to the US he got banned from here over a peeing contest he had with another member (that he didn't start) that got real ugly and ended up getting moderators and Admin involved, posts were deleted, which actually inflamed the situation because it caused both sides to get even more angry, Fred said some things that even I thought shouldn't have been said, then he was gone.
As for Fred "recruiting" for another forum, I don't buy it. I would have liked to think that I would have been one of the first to have been "recruited" and I have recieved no such invitation. I had just about completly lost contact with him afte he got banned form here. Anyways, I can't see where a member trying to get other members to do something like starting up another site is grounds to get banned, anyways.

Fred was around in the beginning, I didn't come along until the next year. I've seen people come, and seen people go. I've been around alot more than my 1.6 posts per day would suggest. I've made some good friends on this site, people I truly care about, its just that I don't talk to them as much as I should, so they may not know how I feel (Cindy knows :kiss: :wave: ) I remember when Stan was much more "opinionated" than he is now. Being a mod has caused him to probably "check up" a lot more than he used to, so as to be fair to everyone else he has to "oversee". Cindy is always a joy to hear from. Lee Roy used to post alot more than he does now. DickBlom, has anyone heard from him lately? Over the years I have really liked to read what Muggle Not has had to say because he has brought an insider's view. Tstran has always pulled for drivers that were the complete opposite of mine but he's cool too (although I wish he and Muggle would kiss and makeup already). I miss Browndog, she was a hoot, and Roselady3, if you are out there, even just reading this as a guest, you need to come back and see your buds every once in a while. We used to be one big family, but after Fred got banned, the family started to splinter and people (including me) started to post less and less. One reason for me was my work schedule, it truly was, but I still could have posted more than I did. I didn't like what I was seeing. Things have been cleaned up, that's for sure, and people , for the most part, are getting along better now, but I still haven't seen the family atmosphere come back, not yet, anyways.

So,please, stop picking on good old Fred, and Fred, go back to your corner or will not give you your doggie treat today....

[Fred Basset]

A day at RCR Slo, that you actually had no clue about what was going to happen till we got there and we had Chocolate as our own personal guide no less :up:
Then there was the drafting back thru the Fri traffic up I40 all the way to where ever the OG was

Oh and then there was the interview about 3 weeks later on national tv at Dover that Nascar had me do with Richard Childress on Nascar Nation when i was down in the pits with the hot passes all weekend with BrownDog and the gang :dog:

Happy Days!

And then just after that we had the brainwave to try and make it here.. 2.5 years later we made it up in the Maine frozen tundra just up the road from BrownDog no less. And then last June i was on national tv again on HGTV with maybe something on NBC later in the year :laugh:


Sooo i come back here and find Stans been taken over by aliens and brainwashed to be a mod and is not the same Stan that used to be here, i was still banned and had lost my 25000 plus posts (do you know how long it took to get those ) :rolleyes: and i have to come back as Basset with one t :dog:


Anyway.. i have more important things going on right now doing the business up here.. Slo.. PT coming


and WTF?? i can only use 5 smilies in a post???


And Slo thanks for the kind words and setting the record straight on here.. i would use a drug induced smilie but i've used my quota it seems for this post

[RaceFanStan]

.....
Sooo i come back here and find Stans been taken over by aliens and brainwashed to be a mod and is not the same Stan that used to be here, i was still banned and had lost my 25000 plus posts (do you know how long it took to get those ) :rolleyes: and i have to come back as Basset with one t :dog:
......
I have to admit I do hold my tongue sometimes.
Setting a good example & all that. ;)

Fred, you old log-in isn't banned anymore, I would think you could log-in with it ...
(I checked because I was going to unban you but it had already been done.)

Now as to having some fun, I'm up for it. :D

[jslone]

Good thing,this place needs some personality.

[Sparky1329]

Fred is the only one of the 30,938 members of this forum that I have actually met in person. My wife and I have never forgotten that day in May 2005 that we spent with Fred and his wife at RCR (and how starved we were afterwards as just about got lost on I-40 looking for a place to eat, ended up at the Olive Garden in Greensboro if I remember correctly).

Its said that people who post on forums are different than they are in real life, and to some extent that is possibly true. Its easy to hide behind your screen name and fight with other people, because what are they going to do back, right?

Fred is not one of those "Phony People." He is a huge racing fan, who is just as opinionated and funny in person as he is on here. He does have an "impish" side that sometime he can't leave well enough alone, and thats ok too, because so do I.

To our friends on the other side of the pond, Fred is one of you, right down to that funny accent of his. He was smart enough and worked hard enough to make enough pounds to convert to dollars to come over here and start his own business.

Sad part was is that I never got to find out how that worked out because soon after he moved to the US he got banned from here over a peeing contest he had with another member (that he didn't start) that got real ugly and ended up getting moderators and Admin involved, posts were deleted, which actually inflamed the situation because it caused both sides to get even more angry, Fred said some things that even I thought shouldn't have been said, then he was gone.
As for Fred "recruiting" for another forum, I don't buy it. I would have liked to think that I would have been one of the first to have been "recruited" and I have recieved no such invitation. I had just about completly lost contact with him afte he got banned form here. Anyways, I can't see where a member trying to get other members to do something like starting up another site is grounds to get banned, anyways.

Fred was around in the beginning, I didn't come along until the next year. I've seen people come, and seen people go. I've been around alot more than my 1.6 posts per day would suggest. I've made some good friends on this site, people I truly care about, its just that I don't talk to them as much as I should, so they may not know how I feel (Cindy knows :kiss: :wave: ) I remember when Stan was much more "opinionated" than he is now. Being a mod has caused him to probably "check up" a lot more than he used to, so as to be fair to everyone else he has to "oversee". Cindy is always a joy to hear from. Lee Roy used to post alot more than he does now. DickBlom, has anyone heard from him lately? Over the years I have really liked to read what Muggle Not has had to say because he has brought an insider's view. Tstran has always pulled for drivers that were the complete opposite of mine but he's cool too (although I wish he and Muggle would kiss and makeup already). I miss Browndog, she was a hoot, and Roselady3, if you are out there, even just reading this as a guest, you need to come back and see your buds every once in a while. We used to be one big family, but after Fred got banned, the family started to splinter and people (including me) started to post less and less. One reason for me was my work schedule, it truly was, but I still could have posted more than I did. I didn't like what I was seeing. Things have been cleaned up, that's for sure, and people , for the most part, are getting along better now, but I still haven't seen the family atmosphere come back, not yet, anyways.

So,please, stop picking on good old Fred, and Fred, go back to your corner or will not give you your doggie treat today....

I joined up shortly after you did, slo. This was a really jumpin' place back then. Life goes on, stuff happens and things evolve. It was fun.

[slorydn1]

I joined up shortly after you did, slo. This was a really jumpin' place back then. Life goes on, stuff happens and things evolve. It was fun.

:wave:
Yep, it was...sorry Sparky, I didn't mean to leave you out of the people I mentioned, I was trying to watch Speed Channel at the same time I was typing that! :)

I also forgot to mention 24Thunder (I wonder how he and Miriam are getting along), MarkC, Chica, RCR29FAN, and of course my little bro Damg75, and whole host of people that were regulars that for some reason my tired mind isn't remembering yet.
At least I know how he's doing, i just talked to him last Sunday during the rain delay right before they called the 500 over.

[Sparky1329]

:wave:
Yep, it was...sorry Sparky, I didn't mean to leave you out of the people I mentioned, I was trying to watch Speed Channel at the same time I was typing that! :)

I also forgot to mention 24Thunder (I wonder how he and Miriam are getting along), MarkC, Chica, RCR29FAN, and of course my little bro Damg75, and whole host of people that were regulars that for some reason my tired mind isn't remembering yet.
At least I know how he's doing, i just talked to him last Sunday during the rain delay right before they called the 500 over.

Meh. It's hard to remember so many posters. It's good to see you posting again. :)

[Fred Basset]

Jnrs 15th and about to be lapped.. oh look a caution :laugh:

[jslone]

Hey Fred,htis is a boring race.Gonna switch to Patton instead.

[jeffmr2]

Jnrs 15th and about to be lapped.. oh look a caution :laugh:

I'm so glad i'm not the only one who thought that!! Noticed also that there were no fox in-car shots of the supposed rain on turn 3,unlike the earlier rain cautions.

[harvick#1]

Jnrs 15th and about to be lapped.. oh look a caution :laugh:

its happened alot of times, I remember pocono, Jr was about to be lapped twice (yeah its a 55 sec to lap) and twice, debris cautions came out when he was about to get lapped

[muggle not]

Jnrs 15th and about to be lapped.. oh look a caution :laugh:
LMAO, that means there are 28 cars "BEHIND" him that are lapped. :D

[wbcobrar]

I think the no tallent hack Jr. is Tony Jr. . If Dale kicks that hack to the curb and gets a real crue chief maby he'll win a race or two .

[colinspooky]

Yeah so?? Stop making a mountain out of a molehill.. :rolleyes:


Is this the forum equivalent of 'ok, I was wrong - guess you lot do see the same angles and bs we do, and actually are entitled to make knowledgeable comments with some authority, sorry' ? :rolleyes:

[colinspooky]

oh, and sorry to labour this, but if Fred left the UK for good two years plus ago, I am sure Sky wasn't showing it then? But then I maybe wrong on that.
And isn't Fox and Sky essentially the same company under News Corp?

[Fred Basset]

oh, and sorry to labour this, but if Fred left the UK for good two years plus ago, I am sure Sky wasn't showing it then? But then I maybe wrong on that.
And isn't Fox and Sky essentially the same company under News Corp?

Well sorry fella but you are labouring it :rolleyes:


Do you not think i might of been back to the UK in that time and seen the coverage... and i've had dvd's of the show recorded in Uk and sent to me here...

[Fred Basset]

Is this the forum equivalent of 'ok, I was wrong - guess you lot do see the same angles and bs we do, and actually are entitled to make knowledgeable comments with some authority, sorry' ? :rolleyes:

Read my reply above.. no its not. I've seen both programmes.....

[Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left]

Colin hes trying to wind you up mate.

[Fred Basset]

Ohhhh your just a couple of snappers nipping at my ankles LOL. I make valid comment about a driver and you 2 get all excitable over it.. calm down, its just an internet forum :laugh:

And as for winding your chum up, nah not my style. Read what i posted its how it is :rolleyes:

[colinspooky]

.. and i've had dvd's of the show recorded in Uk and sent to me here...


Wow, and then sat and watched hours and hours of all the rubbish and bs we have to contend with complete with all our "missing" angles - that is dedication. Sorry, simply had not realised all the research you had done on this.

Perhaps you can now tell us, as you have complete first hand knowledge of both broadcasts of the same races, EXACTLY WHAT IT IS WE POOR SAPS ARE MISSING in our live coverage compared to your live coverage.

:rolleyes:

[Stu_H]

Perhaps you can now tell us, as you have complete first hand knowledge of both broadcasts of the same races, EXACTLY WHAT IT IS WE POOR SAPS ARE MISSING in our live coverage compared to your live coverage.

:rolleyes:

That's the simple question I asked last week to be met with by the mountains out of molehill reply! It was an honest question as to what was the difference. Instead I got some bloke giving me the Basset life story :confused:

[Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left]

Ohhhh your just a couple of snappers nipping at my ankles LOL. I make valid comment about a driver and you 2 get all excitable over it.. calm down, its just an internet forum :laugh:

And as for winding your chum up, nah not my style. Read what i posted its how it is :rolleyes:

You may very well have made a valid comment about a driver. Im just not quite sure why you try and discredit other peoples opinions by saying "they dont see everything over there". Thats all, not excited. Mildly amused because i just dont see what your getting at.

[Fred Basset]

Read what i've said twice... i have been sent dvd copies of what you see as well as seeing it in UK 1st hand.. i know what you see which is good coverage but its not what we get/as much as we get.. there is nothing to wind yourself up about :rolleyes: Stop making mountains out of molehills :laugh:

You won't hear another squeak out of me on the subject. I have more important fish to fry doing what i do here

[Fred Basset]

That's the simple question I asked last week to be met with by the mountains out of molehill reply! It was an honest question as to what was the difference. Instead I got some bloke giving me the Basset life story :confused:


And you should be honoured that a good guy like Slo took the time to do that.. he doesn't do that for everyone. :laugh:

This place was soooo much better in the old days :mark:

[willracefan]

well junior isnt a great driver, he cant beat the likes of johnson, edwards, kyle busch, and stewart. also, in the years where gordon wins, he cant beat him. as well as harvick in the years that he has good cars.

and junior has been introduced to johnson, his teammate. i guess i'm the first one to say that jimmie johnson doesnt want to lose his top tieing championship or any to a teammate. jj is hms and everyone else is behind him. junior should have went elsewhere, like gibbs.

[slorydn1]

:mark:

[colinspooky]

i know what you see which is good coverage but its not what we get/as much as we get..

I have more important fish to fry doing what i do here


Once again you say it - we just can't figure out why there would be two separate live feeds - sounds like a massive amount of extra work - would require two galleries, two producers and two sets of production staff. What for? I know you get full pre- and post-shows, but of the race itself? Surely there are not people sat there saying things like: "For God's sake don't show that bit to the Brits - they won't understand it."

I just don't see it happening. Why would they edit it? I think you are just plain wrong, and won't admit it.


And as for more fish to fry, you have mentioned that you have so much "business' to do, it sounds a little scary self-important yuppy-ish. Just saying, that's all.

And if this place was so much better in the old days, then why are you............. oh what the heck. Logic is not your forte after all.

[Fred Basset]

Oh FFS :laugh: i never said there were 2 seperate live feeds! I said we get more of the programme than you do.. more build up, more afters, more angles..

Seriously, if this all you have got to have to talk about in your life, you need to get out more

Perhaps i should also mention i have it in HD too on a big TV.. so i see more :laugh: Nah that will probably start you off too... Perhaps i might suggest you head to the VSR, V8 and Pickup's forum.. more your style?

Thanks for making me LOL so early in the morning though :dog: :laugh:

[Fred Basset]

:mark:

i'm with ya buddy! :mark: Send Kat a :kiss: from me :dog:

[colinspooky]

Perhaps i should also mention i have it in HD too on a big TV..




Wooo, what's HD? :rolleyes:

[Stu_H]

Wooo, what's HD? :rolleyes:

Hole Digging, he is a master.

[colinspooky]

Oh, now that's funny - well done old chap.

:imubash:

[muggle not]

Hole Digging, he is a master.
LMAO :D

[Fred Basset]

Hole Digging, he is a master.

So says Mr 12posts :laugh:

[slorydn1]

i'm with ya buddy! :mark: Send Kat a :kiss: from me :dog:


Kat sends one back....I keep trying to get her to log in every once in a while, but she's so busy with work and her online classes that she never does :s mokin:

R we just about done arguing about who gets better NASCAR coverage yet?. I'm just glad we r still able to get it at all!!!! :beer:

[Fred Basset]

I certainly seem to of lit their fire a little :laugh: I have no idea what they're getting so wound up about. They should be thankful that we allow them to have coverage of Nascar :D

[RaceFanStan]

Yes, they did get worked-up. http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/orn/00.gif

[muggle not]

I certainly seem to of lit their fire a little :laugh: I have no idea what they're getting so wound up about. They should be thankful that we allow them to have coverage of Nascar :D
What is this "we" crap. I suspect that they know more about nascar than some recent immigrants. :D

[Fred Basset]

What is this "we" crap. I suspect that they know more about nascar than some recent immigrants. :D

Well your entitled to your opinion, but then again.... you obviously don't know of the relationship that i have with RCR still... like hot pit passes as guests of the 07 team at Darlington each year

And try not to be so rude with your post.. your family started off as immigrants too and i'm just the same as them and i've worked damn hard to get here.. but then again, you wouldn't care or understand what we went through to get here...

[Stu_H]

So says Mr 12posts :laugh:

Most of mine make a point, someone below has replied with useless information with 31,000 posts, does that make his point any more valid?

[Fred Basset]

Most of mine make a point, someone below has replied with useless information with 31,000 posts, does that make his point any more valid?

Yes! Its RFS :rolleyes: :D

[colinspooky]

know of the relationship that i have with RCR still... like hot pit passes as guests of the 07 team at Darlington each year




wooo..... again. Still have my Lowes passes hanging on the wall. Cold I grant you, but then I wanted to watch the race from the stands (passes again, sigh). Nice having the car in the infield too, saved all that walking. Woo for me. Missed some angles they showed on TV mind. Passing the time with a few of the drivers etc in the driver's meeting was fun. Junior signed my son's jacket, chatted with Mr Johnson and Gordon about racing in general, you know... stuff....... Oh and my other half was quite taken with a chatty Mr Martin - could barely get them apart. Nice week we spent there all in all. Enjoyed it. Nice peope.

Never got a chance to meet Mr D Waltrip though - sad that. Sure you go round to his place for tea some days. The aristocrats.

[slorydn1]

Most of mine make a point, someone below has replied with useless information with 31,000 posts, does that make his point any more valid?

:imubash: :grenade:
Uhhhhh, YEAH, its WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more valid. You see, that guy with the 31000 posts who posted useless info is our moderator, I would greatly apperciate it if at least HE got shown a little respect, even if the rest of us don't get any, OK? Thanks much!

Here, lets have a :beer: and cool down, before RFS breaks out the :burn:

[Fred Basset]

The forum quality was sooo much better in the old days.. :dog:

[Stu_H]

:imubash: :grenade:
Uhhhhh, YEAH, its WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more valid. You see, that guy with the 31000 posts who posted useless info is our moderator, I would greatly apperciate it if at least HE got shown a little respect, even if the rest of us don't get any, OK? Thanks much!

Here, lets have a :beer: and cool down, before RFS breaks out the :burn:

I believe the approved response in these situations on here is "Stop making mountains out of molehills" :D

[RaceFanStan]

Stu_H,
I gave you some time to talk about nascar associated topics but you continue to make things personal. :s
You have 15 posts & 4 are them contain insults.
You are not making friends with your degrading comments.
PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE NOT ALLOWED.
==========================================
Now, back on topic ...
Dale Jr has a top tier car with a top tier team.
The question is :
Can Dale Jr get the job done this year or will he again say things will be better later ?

[Stu_H]

Stu_H,
I gave you some time to talk about nascar associated topics but you continue to make things personal. :s
You have 15 posts & 4 are them contain insults.
You are not making friends with your degrading comments.
PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE NOT ALLOWED.
==========================================


I have not personally attacked anyone. I have not called anyone by a derogatory name. If they were that bad they would have been deleted. I have not received any PM's from any unhappy people, nor have I received any from the Mod's as to my conduct. All I ever tried to do was to get a reply to my perfectly legitimate question, when views by UK Nascar fans were put into question.

You posted earlier with the ever so helpful "Yes, they did get worked-up."

You didn't see fit to put a stop to any wrongdoing at that point, moreso you chose to join in. Since your very helpful post I have posted twice and nothing has contained a personal insult.

If you find an innocent man still guilty then go ahead and delete my account. I have done nothing wrong to deserve except ask questions of those stirring excrement with wooden sticks. If you are a stirrer of it yourself then my account will be gone, wont it?

[RaceFanStan]

My "Yes, they did get worked-up." comment was sharing a laugh with a friend.
We like to have fun here, insults & degrading comments are frowned upon.
You have the rope & it is choice what you do with it.
Have a nice day. :D

[Fred Basset]

Did Jnr miss his pits again today? Second time this season :laugh:
Never mind he's still 16th in the rankings :up:


Nevermind, he can be just like Beckham at LA Galaxy.. just look at all those trinket sales :laugh:

[jslone]

And Fred,jr is still the most popular driver,with his bonehead moves like missing the pits.

[The instant classic]

put it this way JR anit his father, therefore he will never be a NSC champ
"nuff said"

[muggle not]

put it this way JR anit his father, therefore he will never be a NSC champ
"nuff said"
Jeff Gordon isn't his father either......and he is a Champ.

Jr doesn't have to be his father. He is doing ok as a driver. All anyone has to do is look at his statistics. btw, he will make the Chase this year which is better than 31 other drivers in the points.

[The instant classic]

but Jeff gordon co-owns jimme johnson car and he seems to be doing fine and also the team mate of jr
look at his statistics? i look at them and only saw 1 win in 2 years,
yeah he will make the chase and same with all the other guys that always make it,

jr will never win a NSC title hes only good at like 5 tracks maybe alittle more,
jr really need to be like his father or take a page from kyle busch and start mixing it up beat and bang on guys, as the saying goes "rubbing is racing"

[Mark in Oshawa]

Instant whatever....here is a clue. Beating and banging like his Dad isn't going to make him WIN like his Dad. Junior or any other driver now will not win doing what Dale Sr. did. There are too many guys out there that can win every weekend and you cant knock them all out of the way even if you have the fastest car.

As for the line "rubbing is racing", that was a sad line from a really S#$%Y movie and the truth is in this sport today, outrunning the guys works a hell of a lot better than knocking them out of the way. You will find the races Kyle Busch wins are the ones he never has to lay a fender on guys because he has so much car under him. He loses when he reverts to his jerk personality and starts messing with backmarkers (Texas was a perfect example of this, bending a fender messing with John Freaking Andretti when he had a car capable of winning).

[DanicaFan]

Dale Jr is an average driver in the best equipment. He will never be as good as Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, Carl Edwards, Jimmie Johnson, Kyle Busch, etc.

[The instant classic]

Instant whatever....here is a clue. Beating and banging like his Dad isn't going to make him WIN like his Dad. Junior or any other driver now will not win doing what Dale Sr. did. There are too many guys out there that can win every weekend and you cant knock them all out of the way even if you have the fastest car.

As for the line "rubbing is racing", that was a sad line from a really S#$%Y movie and the truth is in this sport today, outrunning the guys works a hell of a lot better than knocking them out of the way. You will find the races Kyle Busch wins are the ones he never has to lay a fender on guys because he has so much car under him. He loses when he reverts to his jerk personality and starts messing with backmarkers (Texas was a perfect example of this, bending a fender messing with John Freaking Andretti when he had a car capable of winning).
jr could bang guys out of the way, cuz i remember when nascar use to say "jr is just like his dad on that track"
you can bang guys out of the way, look at johnson at martinsville,
and kyle will hit guys to win look at bristol last year with kyle vs edwards
or kyle vs jr at richmond, he may have got the win but he still hit guys and tryed for it, and dont forget jr wreck half the cars at daytona and never got black flaged or anything from nascar, so he can bang on guys and get away with it,
and for "rubbing is racing" i seem to remember Benny Parsons using that line alot

[The instant classic]

Dale Jr is an average driver in the best equipment. He will never be as good as Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, Carl Edwards, Jimmie Johnson, Kyle Busch, etc.
i do agree with that, thats been my point in other post

[muggle not]

i do agree with that, thats been my point in other post
Ok, how do you rate Jr. There are 43 drivers in a race, where does jr rank in your opinion.

[The instant classic]

Ok, how do you rate Jr. There are 43 drivers in a race, where does jr rank in your opinion.

top 5 for heart

30th for talent

[Mark in Oshawa]

jr could bang guys out of the way, cuz i remember when nascar use to say "jr is just like his dad on that track"
you can bang guys out of the way, look at johnson at martinsville,
and kyle will hit guys to win look at bristol last year with kyle vs edwards
or kyle vs jr at richmond, he may have got the win but he still hit guys and tryed for it, and dont forget jr wreck half the cars at daytona and never got black flaged or anything from nascar, so he can bang on guys and get away with it,
and for "rubbing is racing" i seem to remember Benny Parsons using that line alot

Parsons said lots of intelligent things too. As for banging out of the way, that works at Martinsville, but pretty much anyplace else it doesn't really work.

As for him wrecking at Daytona and not getting black flagged..uhhh what would they do? Take him out of the race? You think that was intentional? You truly are a delusional fool if you believe that.

What rubs me the wrong way about all you experts claiming what Jr. is and isn't is most of you have next to no knowledge of the rules, or the mentality of guys who have to trust each other at 180 mph plus every week. Other than Martinsville and Bristol, it is pretty much frowned upon to go around rubbing each other past just gentle nudges, and even then it is only to upset the guy's car, not wreck him. Any idiot can wreck his opponents. It takes skill, which Senior had by the way, to just get a guy loose.

As for Jr's talent? I would say he is a top 10 quality driver on a team that has issues. He won 17 races with the 8, and how many races has DEI won since he left? EXACTLY. HE obviously was better than his team then, and now that he is at Hendricks, he has struggled but I put a lot of that down to Jr's fighting the COT. IF the old car was still around, I suspect Tony Jr and Dale Jr wouldn't be having half the issues. The fact is they have not made the jump mentally to reacting to this new car. They didn't have a good grasp of what they needed last year, and they haven't figured out how to make the changes needed this year. They cannot run the 24,5, or 48's setup every race because Jr. will interpret what the car is doing differently than the other three. Heck Gordon and Johnson couldn't share setups either.

What people have to realize is this car has a knife edge where you can set the car up for to make it fast, and you have to learn how to make the adjustments with the track conditions on this car. That takes time. Some crew chiefs pick it up like Knaus, but even then, you change him over to run the 88 it could take a year before Knaus would pick up on what Jr. likes because every driver has a different take on what feels right to him. If the driver cant feel that edge, he wont be able to push it to the point of no return. Right now Jimmie Johnson, Kyle Busch and Carl Edwards seem to be the guys who have picked up on how to adapt to this car. Also note, in the old car, Kyle wasn't nearly as dominating with Hendrick Motorsports. He was averaging one race win a year, same as Jr.

[Fred Basset]

Ok, how do you rate Jr. There are 43 drivers in a race, where does jr rank in your opinion.


I'll go out on a limb here and say that Jnr doesn't make the chase on results this year. These people that seem to think he's talented, look at the results. 2 or 3 wins in 102 races. Thats not much of a strike rate

[The instant classic]

quote=Mark in Oshawa;616447]Parsons said lots of intelligent things too. As for banging out of the way, that works at Martinsville, but pretty much anyplace else it doesn't really work.

As for him wrecking at Daytona and not getting black flagged..uhhh what would they do? Take him out of the race? You think that was intentional? You truly are a delusional fool if you believe that.

What rubs me the wrong way about all you experts claiming what Jr. is and isn't is most of you have next to no knowledge of the rules, or the mentality of guys who have to trust each other at 180 mph plus every week. Other than Martinsville and Bristol, it is pretty much frowned upon to go around rubbing each other past just gentle nudges, and even then it is only to upset the guy's car, not wreck him. Any idiot can wreck his opponents. It takes skill, which Senior had by the way, to just get a guy loose.

As for Jr's talent? I would say he is a top 10 quality driver on a team that has issues. He won 17 races with the 8, and how many races has DEI won since he left? EXACTLY. HE obviously was better than his team then, and now that he is at Hendricks, he has struggled but I put a lot of that down to Jr's fighting the COT. IF the old car was still around, I suspect Tony Jr and Dale Jr wouldn't be having half the issues. The fact is they have not made the jump mentally to reacting to this new car. They didn't have a good grasp of what they needed last year, and they haven't figured out how to make the changes needed this year. They cannot run the 24,5, or 48's setup every race because Jr. will interpret what the car is doing differently than the other three. Heck Gordon and Johnson couldn't share setups either.

What people have to realize is this car has a knife edge where you can set the car up for to make it fast, and you have to learn how to make the adjustments with the track conditions on this car. That takes time. Some crew chiefs pick it up like Knaus, but even then, you change him over to run the 88 it could take a year before Knaus would pick up on what Jr. likes because every driver has a different take on what feels right to him. If the driver cant feel that edge, he wont be able to push it to the point of no return. Right now Jimmie Johnson, Kyle Busch and Carl Edwards seem to be the guys who have picked up on how to adapt to this car. Also note, in the old car, Kyle wasn't nearly as dominating with Hendrick Motorsports. He was averaging one race win a year, same as Jr.[/quote]
jr nation always think of jr as some kind of god :rolleyes:

what have i done at daytona? same thing that happen in the busch race, flag black him for a lap easy, its over said and done, but sad to think nascar cant do that cuz then, ones like you at jr nation wolud scream there heads off on everysite and wind tunnel, saying im so angry at that nascar

put it this way without the "earnhardt" jr wolud never get rides from HMS or help from nascar, and sure woludnt have jr nation or i sholud say his dads fans that jummp on the jr baned waggon,

"You think that was intentional? You truly are a delusional fool if you believe that." i seem to remember jr saying in his interview, "im sorry to only half the guys in that wreck the other who cares"
intentional? na cant be not after that comment, only a fool wolud belive that jr didnt wreck half the car, i mean hes the GREAT dale jr he dont mess up on track, na hes just the driver with a topic called "Dale Jr - NO friggin talent!!"

but by saying Kyle wasn't nearly as dominating was averaging one race win a year, same as Jr. so right there yr saying jr anit a good driver then, cuz Kyle was nothing in HMS, and got 1 win and same with jr, so jr is great cuz he can rack up 1 win and not be dominating? sounds like thats what you mean,

he got 8 wins with DEI how many years did he race for DEI?and how many of the wins came on plate tracks? better then his team mates? thats why he needed mikey to push him to more then half his plate wins, i remember one plate win in 2003 with no mikey BUT he went under the yellow line to pass Matt and DW said "it wolud be very unpopular to black flag him, witch goes back to this year daytona, the COT car but he better find that out soon, cuz jr is getting up there in age he wont be around forever

[Mark in Oshawa]

jr nation always think of jr as some kind of god :rolleyes:

what have i done at daytona? same thing that happen in the busch race, flag black him for a lap easy, its over said and done, but sad to think nascar cant do that cuz then, ones like you at jr nation wolud scream there heads off on everysite and wind tunnel, saying im so angry at that nascar put it this way without the "earnhardt" jr wolud never get rides from HMS or help from nascar, and sure woludnt have jr nation or i sholud say his dads fans that jummp on the jr baned waggon,

Classic...you must have missed the race. Why would they give him a black flag for a lap. HE WAS WRECKED. I wouldn't have said a damned word if they found him at fault because it wouldn't be worth getting excited about. HE was OUT OF THE RACE. Secondly, he was NOT passing Vickers below the yellow line, Vickers drove down there and blocked him and Jr. didn't get out of the gas. That happens...ooh about 4 times every restrictor plate race. They don't get black flagged for it hardly at all. As for fans of Sr., I wasn't a fan of the old man at all so don't lump me in on that one.


"You think that was intentional? You truly are a delusional fool if you believe that." i seem to remember jr saying in his interview, "im sorry to only half the guys in that wreck the other who cares"
intentional? na cant be not after that comment, only a fool wolud belive that jr didnt wreck half the car, i mean hes the GREAT dale jr he dont mess up on track, na hes just the driver with a topic called "Dale Jr - NO friggin talent!!" Jr. was still pissed off that he was out and said a lot of crap he shouldn't have. Kyle Busch does it every week he doesn't win too. You seem to forget most of these guys are wound for sound when they get out of the car and things haven't happened the way they hoped. As for No Frigging talent comment, it is your opinion, but you have little credibility when you would black flag a WRECKED CAR.


but by saying Kyle wasn't nearly as dominating was averaging one race win a year, same as Jr. so right there yr saying jr anit a good driver then, cuz Kyle was nothing in HMS, and got 1 win and same with jr, so jr is great cuz he can rack up 1 win and not be dominating? sounds like thats what you mean, he got 8 wins with DEI how many years did he race for DEI?and how many of the wins came on plate tracks? better then his team mates? thats why he needed mikey to push him to more then half his plate wins, i remember one plate win in 2003 with no mikey BUT he went under the yellow line to pass Matt and DW said "it wolud be very unpopular to black flag him, witch goes back to this year daytona, the COT car but he better find that out soon, cuz jr is getting up there in age he wont be around forever

I never said once that Jr. Was dominating. Show me where I did. You just have a hate on for someone you have never met based on who his dad was. Sad. HE didn't have 8 wins for DEI, he had 17 in 7 years of cup racing. He has won one more last year for Hendrick. Big deal, Kyle was averaging one a year until last year and all the sudden he is doing well. Great...happy for him, that doesn't mean Jr. all the sudden has LESS talent. He had what he had 5 years ago when he was winning 3 or 4 races a year. I cant count the number of blown motors he had in the last few years of his time with DEI where he was running up front either. How many of those would have been victories? No one was driving that car for him in all those wins. You can fluke win once, or maybe twice, but these guys are too good for that to happen 18 freaking times.

AS for Mikey pushing him to a plate win? Oh geeze, just like Tony Stewart was pushing Kyle in the 08 race and almost won? Like Kurt was pushing Newman to the win? You gonna tell me Ryan Newman has no talent because Kurt Busch pushed him to the win? You obviously don't understand plate racing. All these guys on plate tracks use other drivers to push them forward. Why wouldn't Dale get a teammate behind him?, espeically when he pushed Waltrip to wins in the past.

You know...I might understand your arguments if you actually could spell and construct an argument a little better. All I am seeing right now is someone who hated Sr., Hates Jr. and cant grasp the reality of racing. Your comment on why wasn't Jr. blackflagged at Daytona when his car was on the hook just demeans your credibility.

Now as for Jr's place in the sport, it is pretty simple. He may be the most popular driver, but he didn't ask for that pressure, and he is at best in the top 12 most years. 32 other drivers would love to be that good. Is he better than Kyle Busch? I would say no right now, but he could figure out the COT next race and win and go on a tear like Jimmie or Kyle did last year.

Personally, I don't care what you or anyone else thinks. I was a fan of the guy because of the way he carries himself, and how he will admit to fault in a lot of wrecks when he legitmately screws up. Kyle Busch hasn't admitted to screwing up once while wrecking a few guys. Jr's outburst at Daytona this year was NOT his usual style and I am sure he feels like the dummy he was, but spare me the bile. The guy has a lot on his plate he didn't ask for. Most guys can go about their business in the garage with out the media pressure Jr. lives with on a daily basis. I don't believe he will win a championship, but if he ever does, it wont change the fact some people think it was handed to him. That's too bad, because no one gets anything for free in Cup racing. NO ONE.

[The instant classic]

Classic...you must have missed the race. Why would they give him a black flag for a lap. HE WAS WRECKED. I wouldn't have said a damned word if they found him at fault because it wouldn't be worth getting excited about. HE was OUT OF THE RACE. Secondly, he was NOT passing Vickers below the yellow line, Vickers drove down there and blocked him and Jr. didn't get out of the gas. That happens...ooh about 4 times every restrictor plate race. They don't get black flagged for it hardly at all. As for fans of Sr., I wasn't a fan of the old man at all so don't lump me in on that one.

Jr. was still pissed off that he was out and said a lot of crap he shouldn't have. Kyle Busch does it every week he doesn't win too. You seem to forget most of these guys are wound for sound when they get out of the car and things haven't happened the way they hoped. As for No Frigging talent comment, it is your opinion, but you have little credibility when you would black flag a WRECKED CAR.



I never said once that Jr. Was dominating. Show me where I did. You just have a hate on for someone you have never met based on who his dad was. Sad. HE didn't have 8 wins for DEI, he had 17 in 7 years of cup racing. He has won one more last year for Hendrick. Big deal, Kyle was averaging one a year until last year and all the sudden he is doing well. Great...happy for him, that doesn't mean Jr. all the sudden has LESS talent. He had what he had 5 years ago when he was winning 3 or 4 races a year. I cant count the number of blown motors he had in the last few years of his time with DEI where he was running up front either. How many of those would have been victories? No one was driving that car for him in all those wins. You can fluke win once, or maybe twice, but these guys are too good for that to happen 18 freaking times.

AS for Mikey pushing him to a plate win? Oh geeze, just like Tony Stewart was pushing Kyle in the 08 race and almost won? Like Kurt was pushing Newman to the win? You gonna tell me Ryan Newman has no talent because Kurt Busch pushed him to the win? You obviously don't understand plate racing. All these guys on plate tracks use other drivers to push them forward. Why wouldn't Dale get a teammate behind him?, espeically when he pushed Waltrip to wins in the past.

You know...I might understand your arguments if you actually could spell and construct an argument a little better. All I am seeing right now is someone who hated Sr., Hates Jr. and cant grasp the reality of racing. Your comment on why wasn't Jr. blackflagged at Daytona when his car was on the hook just demeans your credibility.

Now as for Jr's place in the sport, it is pretty simple. He may be the most popular driver, but he didn't ask for that pressure, and he is at best in the top 12 most years. 32 other drivers would love to be that good. Is he better than Kyle Busch? I would say no right now, but he could figure out the COT next race and win and go on a tear like Jimmie or Kyle did last year.

Personally, I don't care what you or anyone else thinks. I was a fan of the guy because of the way he carries himself, and how he will admit to fault in a lot of wrecks when he legitmately screws up. Kyle Busch hasn't admitted to screwing up once while wrecking a few guys. Jr's outburst at Daytona this year was NOT his usual style and I am sure he feels like the dummy he was, but spare me the bile. The guy has a lot on his plate he didn't ask for. Most guys can go about their business in the garage with out the media pressure Jr. lives with on a daily basis. I don't believe he will win a championship, but if he ever does, it wont change the fact some people think it was handed to him. That's too bad, because no one gets anything for free in Cup racing. NO ONE. first off i was a fan dont be saying that i hate dale SR and jr
now yr puting words in my mouth cuz i never said to hate them, i was a fan of dale SR, and i dont hate jr, im just saying when yr nascar most popular
like it or not, yr with the best team in nascar (HMS) and the fans always find something to cry over, its the chew chef, its the COT car always something right? his dad was the most popular driver, and jeff gordon was most popular/ hated but they still got wins, but like i said befor hes only popular cuz of the "earnhardt" name and thats true, cuz if he didnt have the name, then we woludnt be having this talk right now,


for jr dominating. go back and read that post again cuz i never said, you think jr is dominating.

now for daytona he hit Vickers 3 times, what nascar sholud have done was take points away from jr (if he couldnt get his car back out) and didnt DW and other say jr wreck everyone? yeah they did well thats befor the commercial, cuz after that im sure nascar told them what to say, do you think nascar wants some angry jr fans?

for plate tracks yeah mikey did get jr more then half the wins, do guys push eatchother at plate tracks? YES but last lap they always say, there is no team mates, i do remember johnson and, tony leaving there team mates many times on the last lap, did he pushed Waltrip to wins in the past. yes but 2003 2nd dega last lap jr did try to pass mikey, mikey went high to block and went back low to block jr, so i guess now yr gonna tell me jr was blocking the low lane for mikey,

i agree on one thing he does admit to faults, but Kyle Busch hasn't admitted his faults, so what? it makes great talking on the forums, and dale SR never admitted his faults, and you know what? thats why fans loved or hated him, just like Kyle busch of now, and Tony Stewart etc..

and for the personal comment about spelling, noone ask you or made you reply to me, but that sure shows yr credibility. of yr respect to other users, but if you like to go there sure why not? i see yr from Oshawa no need to say anymore, i 100% understand why the way you are, and why you like hillbilly drivers in dale jr

but thats put all that aside have a good easter weekend

[Mark in Oshawa]

Classic..your the guy who speaks like a Hillbilly.

You have done nothing but demean the man's talent so spare me the rot you don't hate the guy and you were a fan. Fan of what I am not sure.

It is clear you are not going to argue with any amount of reason. Dale Jr. didn't hit Vickers more than once. If they were in contact after that, it was out of either's control and if Iam Vickers I don't mind sayin I would be pissed with Jr. as well, but Vickers won a race by doing what Jr. did at Talladega a few years back. Sometimes you are the bull, sometimes you are not ya Know?

As for on the last lap you have no friends or teammates? Really? Listen to Kenny Wallace explaining why he pushed Dale Sr. to a win once at Dega. He explains why guys push other guys to wins.

You just don't like the fact Jr. gets all the attention and isn't winning every race. Fine...I get that.

Also, you make one more hillbilly crack about my hometown, you should reveal where you live in your mom's basement eh?

[The instant classic]

Classic..your the guy who speaks like a Hillbilly.

You have done nothing but demean the man's talent so spare me the rot you don't hate the guy and you were a fan. Fan of what I am not sure.

It is clear you are not going to argue with any amount of reason. Dale Jr. didn't hit Vickers more than once. If they were in contact after that, it was out of either's control and if Iam Vickers I don't mind sayin I would be pissed with Jr. as well, but Vickers won a race by doing what Jr. did at Talladega a few years back. Sometimes you are the bull, sometimes you are not ya Know?

As for on the last lap you have no friends or teammates? Really? Listen to Kenny Wallace explaining why he pushed Dale Sr. to a win once at Dega. He explains why guys push other guys to wins.

You just don't like the fact Jr. gets all the attention and isn't winning every race. Fine...I get that.

Also, you make one more hillbilly crack about my hometown, you should reveal where you live in your mom's basement eh? and how many times has Kenny Wallace said, i could have won that race, but i push dale to the win, if he wanted to, Kenny could have won,

i have done nothing but demean the man's talent, HELLO the topic is called
Dale Jr - NO friggin talent!!! wake up,

i really dont care who gets attention at the track, once again to my first post here i said jr anit his father, thats why he will never be champ i was a fan of dale SR, cuz i dont cheer for jr, i cant be a fan right? ok you know everything

for Vickers lets just say who was he driving for at the time? who won the title that season? wasnt it HSM?
and for daytona jr was a lap down great way to get that lap back right?

you live in your mom's basement eh? HAHAHAHA nope i live with my gf thank you, but im sure you still live in yr mom's basement, seems like someone got little angry with that comment, not nice when it comes back yr way not is it? ;) so go have dinner with mom and peggy sue eat the tv dinners, and tell her all about me

[Mark in Oshawa]

and how many times has Kenny Wallace said, i could have won that race, but i push dale to the win, if he wanted to, Kenny could have won,

i have done nothing but demean the man's talent, HELLO the topic is called
Dale Jr - NO friggin talent!!! wake up,

i really dont care who gets attention at the track, once again to my first post here i said jr anit his father, thats why he will never be champ i was a fan of dale SR, cuz i dont cheer for jr, i cant be a fan right? ok you know everything

for Vickers lets just say who was he driving for at the time? who won the title that season? wasnt it HSM?
and for daytona jr was a lap down great way to get that lap back right?

you live in your mom's basement eh? HAHAHAHA nope i live with my gf thank you, but im sure you still live in yr mom's basement, seems like someone got little angry with that comment, not nice when it comes back yr way not is it? ;) so go have dinner with mom and peggy sue eat the tv dinners, and tell her all about me

Your just a waste of time....

[The instant classic]

Your just a waste of time....
i win :heart:

[RaceFanStan]

Your just a waste of time....
The instant classic was previously know as The IRL fan.
Since requesting a name change his attitude seems to have also taken a change. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/s.gif

[The instant classic]

The instant classic was previously know as The IRL fan.
Since requesting a name change his attitude seems to have also taken a change. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/s.gif
na just having some fun been bored the past few days, nothing really big to talk about in racing, so why not pull some legs :D

[muggle not]

na just having some fun been bored the past few days, nothing really big to talk about in racing, so why not pull some legs :D
Yeah, no racing this week for Cup. Nascar is the only U.S. racing worth talking about and when they don't race it does take away some from the posts.

[The instant classic]

Yeah, no racing this week for Cup. Nascar is the only U.S. racing worth talking about and when they don't race it does take away some from the posts.
agreed, thats the way i feel,
when no racing is on might as well have some fun, and give others something to watch
but we do have Nationwide tomorrow sholud be a good race, i wish the trucks wolud race too, i use to never like truck racing now i love watching it

[colinspooky]

oooooooooh :p

[Mark in Oshawa]

The instant classic was previously know as The IRL fan.
Since requesting a name change his attitude seems to have also taken a change. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/s.gif


Knob then...knob now....

[The instant classic]

Knob then...knob now....
unlucky you Knob always ;)

[Fred Basset]

well my thread seems to of taken a turn for the worse :mark:

[oldhippie]

dale jr sounds like such a girl when he crys about doing poorly :p

[Mark in Oshawa]

unlucky you Knob always ;)


glad you are not in denial....

[e2mtt]

Back on topic... Junior & talent;

Dale Jr. needs a new crew chief as soon as possible. He is turning into the biggest choke job in all of Nascar.

Since starting with Hendricks;
How many times has he been competive at some point during the race? Almost every week.
How many times has the team improved the car during the course of the race? Maybe twice.
How many times has the car gone really bad at the end of the race? 50% of the time?

Tony Eury & Co can't count laps, they can't calculate fuel, they can't balance tires, they can't spot their driver through pitstops over the radio, they can't figure out tire change strategy, and really can't run a championship caliber team.

If I'm Nascar, worrying about ratings, I'm going to Rick Hendricks and demanding something be changed. We've seen that when Jr. has a good car, he can mix it up and run with the best of them. He just never has a good car these days, especially not at the end of the race.

(Or maybe he's just out of shape & unmotivated, I really don't know.)

[The instant classic]

glad you are not in denial....
why sholud i be? you speak nothing and go offtopic, i speak the truth about you, and beside didnt you forget
"im a waste of time" that means you must have alot of time on yr hands to be talking with me right? or you just angry that little e smack the wall AGAIN :)

[kulcu]

I think he is very talented. You know, he really has a gene of his father. But the problem is his physicology, I think. He isn't in the mood of winning races, he is in the mood of going fast and taking risks, making some interesting scenerios and playing to the media like whatever he does, he can't. I think his car, his team and his crew are OK, the problem is him. Remember Phoenix, his crew worked well turning his car from worst to best, and what he did, again... I think he needs motivating. Because every factor except him is good.

[Fred Basset]

Back on topic... Junior & talent;

Dale Jr. needs a new crew chief as soon as possible. He is turning into the biggest choke job in all of Nascar.

Since starting with Hendricks;
How many times has he been competive at some point during the race? Almost every week.
How many times has the team improved the car during the course of the race? Maybe twice.
How many times has the car gone really bad at the end of the race? 50% of the time?

Tony Eury & Co can't count laps, they can't calculate fuel, they can't balance tires, they can't spot their driver through pitstops over the radio, they can't figure out tire change strategy, and really can't run a championship caliber team.

If I'm Nascar, worrying about ratings, I'm going to Rick Hendricks and demanding something be changed. We've seen that when Jr. has a good car, he can mix it up and run with the best of them. He just never has a good car these days, especially not at the end of the race.

(Or maybe he's just out of shape & unmotivated, I really don't know.)


Have you ever thought its the fact that Jnr can't translate what he feels with the car into words to explain to Eury whats wrong with it? It is Jnr thats in the car not Eury...

[e2mtt]

Have you ever thought its the fact that Jnr can't translate what he feels with the car into words to explain to Eury whats wrong with it? It is Jnr thats in the car not Eury...

That may be it. In that case, they need to get someone who can understand Jr, or Jr. needs to start studying engineering so that he can give better info. That still doesn't account for the other 2/3rds of the team screwups.

Maybe Hendricks needs to order Jr.'s crew to just match what Jimmie's crew does every pit stop. It would have to be better.

[harvick#1]

as it was stated when Jr went to Hendrick, it will make or break him, I think we all found out what kind of driver he is. he shows one win (and that was handed to him on a silver plater) and nothing else.

maybe Hendrick gave Stewart all the other good cars, hes got alot of ego drivers to please, but I'm sure he can't please all of them :laugh:

[The instant classic]

as it was stated when Jr went to Hendrick, it will make or break him, I think we all found out what kind of driver he is. he shows one win (and that was handed to him on a silver plater) and nothing else.

maybe Hendrick gave Stewart all the other good cars, hes got alot of ego drivers to please, but I'm sure he can't please all of them :laugh:
i was laughing so hard,
but so well said!

[Fred Basset]

That may be it. In that case, they need to get someone who can understand Jr, or Jr. needs to start studying engineering so that he can give better info. That still doesn't account for the other 2/3rds of the team screwups.

Maybe Hendricks needs to order Jr.'s crew to just match what Jimmie's crew does every pit stop. It would have to be better.

Jnrs just won 3 races in something like 107 races now.. that shows its him and not the crew chief

[Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left]

Jr was running well until that second to last stop. Came in for tyres and was junk after.

Same thing with Harvick, worked hard all race to get a half decent car. They pit and all that good work was out the window. The 88 needs a crew chief change but it wont happen if Jr keeps buring his head in the sand every time the issue comes up.

If i was Hendrick id ask Jr "Do you want to win or just go racing with your cousin?"

[muggle not]

It is Hendrick's call. The owners decide when a crew chief change is required. The driver can and usually does have much input but the owner has the last say. Look at Roush, he makes all the calls.

[RaceFanStan]

Hendrick will want all of his drivers to be happy ...
if Dale Jr wants Tony Eury Jr as his crewchief I am sure he will remain there ...
IMO Dale Jr's crewchief isn't the problem anyway, it is some of the #88 crew that are lacking. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/eek.gif

[nigelred5]

All the pit mistakes made by Dale were his fault. No question. I have been saying for years now, he is way overrated. He is an average driver living off of his father's name.

He will never be as good as Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon, Carl Edwards, Tony Stewart, Kyle Busch, etc.


Hammer, meet nail. He just ain't that good. Never has been, never will be, but NASCAR will never do anything to lil E that would jeopardize the huge marketing draw he represents to them.

[nigelred5]

Have you ever thought its the fact that Jnr can't translate what he feels with the car into words to explain to Eury whats wrong with it? It is Jnr thats in the car not Eury...

Jr can't translate a lot of things into words.
Some NASCAR drivers just continue to get better and smarter as they age, Jr seems to have gone the other direction IMHO.

[RaceFanStan]

Looks like Dale Jr got a slap on the wrist ... :s

from That's Racin.com :
Dale Earnhardt Jr. and Casey Mears were penalized Tuesday for intentionally bumping cars after the race at Phoenix ...
NASCAR put both drivers on probation for the next six races, but neither was fined or lost any points ... http://www.thatsracin.com/115/story/7268.html

[Fred Basset]

Jr can't translate a lot of things into words.
Some NASCAR drivers just continue to get better and smarter as they age, Jr seems to have gone the other direction IMHO.

way too many Nationwide Insurance, Go Daddy and Wrangler adverts etc etc are disrupting his driving LOL

[Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left]

Looks like a timetable has been set:

Hendrick to swap #5 and #88 crew chiefs? Sources within Hendrick Motorsports confirmed to Captain Thunder that discussions were held over the Easter break regarding the possible switching of crew chiefs between the #5 and #88 teams. Mark Martin's crew chief Alan Gustafson was said to be on the block and was willing to move to the #88 team and Martin was willing to support the move. The discussions over Easter ended with an agreement between the two teams and Mr. Hendrick to keep their current teams in tact for at least three more weeks to see if both teams could improve on the slow start they have endured through the first part of the 2009 Sprint Cup season. Sources said Tony Eury Jr., Dale Earnhardt Jr., Martin, and Gustafson all agreed that if Mr. Hendrick wanted a change, they would be willing to swap Gustafson for Eury Jr. However, with Martin's win Saturday night in the Subway Fresh Fit 500 at Phoenix, any switch is now out of the question for the foreseeable future. Hendrick and Martin have no desire to take Gustafson away from the #5 team after the way they dominated the Phoenix race. Now, the timetable is set for the All-Star race at Charlotte on May 16th. If both teams continue to perform poorly, expect a change the week of the All-Star race. However, if Martin's team continues to gain momentum following their Phoenix win, and the #88 team continues to struggle, sources said Eury Jr. could be replaced by car chiefs Ron Malec of the #48 team or Jason Burdett of the #24 team.(CaptainThunderRacing.com (http://captainthunderracing.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=10228) and reported on the Bubba the Love Sponge radio show by Capt Thunder)(4-22-2009)

[tstran17_88]

Looks like Dale Jr got a slap on the wristSlap? More like a wink & a nod as Big Mike was telling him in a stern voice, "please, don't do that again." :rolleyes: