Members Issues Thread...

[pino]

Guys let me remind you all that, this board still have the "Ignore List" function ;)

[Knock-on]

Guys let me remind you all that, this board still have the "Ignore List" function ;)

Come on Pino. When someone is being blatently hypocritical, lying and personally insulting, shouldn't the victim of their spite be aware of it and allowed to respond in a more respectful manner?

Frankly, I think the sort of behaviour being displayed by a couple of people is unnaceptable and verging on illegal (such as making personal threats of violence). Would it not be better to address the cause of the problem rather than asking the members that are trying to stick to the forum code of conduct to ignore them and turn the other cheek?

[pino]

Come on Pino. When someone is being blatently hypocritical, lying and personally insulting, shouldn't the victim of their spite be aware of it and allowed to respond in a more respectful manner?

Frankly, I think the sort of behaviour being displayed by a couple of people is unnaceptable and verging on illegal (such as making personal threats of violence). Would it not be better to address the cause of the problem rather than asking the members that are trying to stick to the forum code of conduct to ignore them and turn the other cheek?

knockie we've been discussed "the problem" for years now and it didn't help much, so there's now 2 options left :

1) You Guys put eachother in your ignoring list
2) I start to ban at least half-dozen of you Guys

[Garry Walker]

I must have missed something...

[Knock-on]

knockie we've been discussed "the problem" for years now and it didn't help much, so there's now 2 options left :

1) You Guys put eachother in your ignoring list
2) I start to ban at least half-dozen of you Guys

If I'm doing something worthy of receiving an infraction or a ban, then by all means. Just tell me what it is.

However, if someone else is, please apply the same to them is all I ask.

At the moment, there is a member on here that is regularly being personally abusive on the boards and in personal messages has threatened violence and makes the most base offensive comments.

Do you think this is acceptable?

[Knock-on]

I must have missed something...

No, but I think I have :laugh:

[Garry Walker]

and in personal messages has threatened violence and makes the most base offensive comments.

Who is that?

[Knock-on]

Who is that?

Ohh, our little friend Tamburello :laugh:


Anytime you fancy losing your teeth - 11th Nov 08, 11:27
Let me know, you cheating ing scum.


Re: Anytime you fancy losing your teeth - 11th Nov 08, 13:26
Like I said before,

Feck off you cheating scum.


Re: Anytime you fancy losing your teeth - 11th Nov 08, 13:34
Face facts....you are nothing but a twat spat from a whores


La vostra madre ha succhiato il cazzo di dennis e siete un amante di paedo.

Here's a selection. Quite childish actually.

[ArrowsFA1]

pino, you know I support the use of the ignore function :) after all, I wrote this (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118382) a while ago :p :

But there are times when ignoring someone does absolutely nothing to solve the issue. It doesn't prevent someone on your ignore list posting insulting, and sometimes offensive, responses to your posts. It doesn't prevent them from deliberately misrepresenting your opinions to others in order to provoke a response, commonly known as flamebait (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamebait). It also doesn't prevent them from sending offensive PM's.

Just as bullying of any sort is unacceptable, this kind of behaviour on a motorsport forum is unacceptable and ignoring it does not make it disappear, much as we would like it to.

[Garry Walker]

Ohh, our little friend Tamburello :laugh:

Here's a selection. Quite childish actually.

Those are quite funny.
He must have been watching Rocky again :rotflmao:

[Knock-on]

Those are quite funny.
He must have been watching Rocky again :rotflmao:

I know what you mean ;) However, as Arrows quite correctly points out, it is not acceptable and cannot be ignored.

As those who have met me will testify, I am not the sort of person to be bullied or cowered and prefer to address these sort of issues.

After all, we have had a few heated moments in the past but I think have found an understanding and respects for each others opinions without resorting to this sort of behaviour.

:)

[Garry Walker]

I know what you mean ;) However, as Arrows quite correctly points out, it is not acceptable and cannot be ignored.

As those who have met me will testify, I am not the sort of person to be bullied or cowered and prefer to address these sort of issues.

After all, we have had a few heated moments in the past but I think have found an understanding and respects for each others opinions without resorting to this sort of behaviour.

:)

Well, threatning over private messages is quite pathetic in my opinion, this is only an internet forum after all.
If one posts something stupid, calling him up on it and possibly making fun of him in public, is the best option, but taking it all private is kind of ...weird.

[Dave B]

Cool :up: I might start posting again. I've been avoiding all but the most trivial of discussions on this forum due to the frequent instances of immature bickering and name calling, but I might be tempted to jump back into the fray now that the new season is looming.

[Mark]

Well, threatning over private messages is quite pathetic in my opinion, this is only an internet forum after all.
If one posts something stupid, calling him up on it and possibly making fun of him in public, is the best option, but taking it all private is kind of ...weird.

Yes, and remember that if a member complains to a moderator about a private message they received it will be handled in the same manner as if it had been posted on the main forums.

[Knock-on]

Cool :up: I might start posting again. I've been avoiding all but the most trivial of discussions on this forum due to the frequent instances of immature bickering and name calling, but I might be tempted to jump back into the fray now that the new season is looming.

Good :) We've missed your logical and insightful posts.

I think that as Pino identified, this problem has long been simmering so having it out in the open will only benefit the health of the Forum and the positive experience it offers to members.

[Knock-on]

Yes, and remember that if a member complains to a moderator about a private message they received it will be handled in the same manner as if it had been posted on the main forums.

You're more than welcome to view all of my PM's Mark.

[Dave B]

Good :) We've missed your logical and insightful posts..
Search the archives. I believe I made one in 2003. :p

[SGWilko]

Ohh, our little friend Tamburello :laugh:









Here's a selection. Quite childish actually.

Hee hee, you should bundle all those up, get yourself a pedal steel and a slide guitar, and y'all got yourself a reeeeellllllll fine good 'ole country toon!

[BDunnell]

pino, you know I support the use of the ignore function :) after all, I wrote this (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118382) a while ago :p :

But there are times when ignoring someone does absolutely nothing to solve the issue. It doesn't prevent someone on your ignore list posting insulting, and sometimes offensive, responses to your posts. It doesn't prevent them from deliberately misrepresenting your opinions to others in order to provoke a response, commonly known as flamebait (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamebait). It also doesn't prevent them from sending offensive PM's.

I agree with all of that, and am saddened that disagreements should ever come to the last thing you mention. And neither does the 'ignore' function offer much assistance in those threads that become dominated by the posts of one or two members, which then get quoted in other people's posts and thus cannot be ignored.

[ioan]

Those are quite funny.
He must have been watching Rocky again :rotflmao:

:up: :rotflmao:

[ioan]

Yes, and remember that if a member complains to a moderator about a private message they received it will be handled in the same manner as if it had been posted on the main forums.

That's exactly why I never understood why the mods always ask us to use PMs if the outcome will be the same! :D

[Knock-on]

That's exactly why I never understood why the mods always ask us to use PMs if the outcome will be the same! :D

PML, very good ioan. Very good :D

[Bagwan]

I would like to say that there are times (and that's just about every time) that I easily understand why Tamburello gets as frustrated as he does .

There are many here who make statements that are pretty thinly veiled digs at the reds .
And , there is an arrogant air floating constantly in the wings as very often people will gang up on him and anyone who defends him or his reactions .

Just last night , when I quipped that Arrows must have had an epiphany , in response to Tam's noticing he seemingly had changed his view , I got a derided and ridiculed .

I have come to expect it .
It happens all the time in the schoolyard .


As Ioan has mentioned , it seems a bit strange that the rules state that if the words get too heated , that the members should take it to PMs , yet , those words in the "proper" place can still get you banned .
While I don't condone his choice of words in his PM , I do feel he was directed to a place where he felt he was free to speak as he wished , therefore I do not agree that he be banned for this .

Furthermore , I feel it is a serious breach that he be quoted in the open forum , when his PMs were meant to be personal messages .



I am deeply concerned with what is going on here .

[Dave B]

There are many here who make statements that are pretty thinly veiled digs at the reds .
There are thinly veiled digs at all the teams, particularly the successful ones. It's the nature of the beast. Most people either rise above them, or resond with verifiable facts. Only a tiny few respond with attacks or conjecture, or hide behind accusations of bullying when they're called on their BS.

[trumperZ06]

Furthermore , I feel it is a serious breach that he be quoted in the open forum , when his PMs were meant to be personal messages .



I am deeply concerned with what is going on here .


:dozey: Hhmmm... so writing an insulting PM is only a problem if it becomes public ?

:p : Kinda like making excuses for Max, when he's caught getting his A$$ spanked in kinky deviate sexual escapades...

:rolleyes: Maybe people need to consider their actions...

BEFORE complaining when they become public !!!

:s mokin:

[SGWilko]

I would like to say that there are times (and that's just about every time) that I easily understand why Tamburello gets as frustrated as he does .

There are many here who make statements that are pretty thinly veiled digs at the reds .
And , there is an arrogant air floating constantly in the wings as very often people will gang up on him and anyone who defends him or his reactions .

Just last night , when I quipped that Arrows must have had an epiphany , in response to Tam's noticing he seemingly had changed his view , I got a derided and ridiculed .

I have come to expect it .
It happens all the time in the schoolyard .


As Ioan has mentioned , it seems a bit strange that the rules state that if the words get too heated , that the members should take it to PMs , yet , those words in the "proper" place can still get you banned .
While I don't condone his choice of words in his PM , I do feel he was directed to a place where he felt he was free to speak as he wished , therefore I do not agree that he be banned for this .

Furthermore , I feel it is a serious breach that he be quoted in the open forum , when his PMs were meant to be personal messages .



I am deeply concerned with what is going on here .

If you don't want to be quoted for being rude or insulting, there is a very simple and obvious answer...

Don't be rude or insulting.

Even I can understand that, and I am an amoeba..... ;)

[SGWilko]

There are thinly veiled digs at all the teams.

Head, the, on, hit, the & nail.

[SGWilko]

:dozey: Hhmmm... so writing an insulting PM is only a problem if it becomes public ?

:p : Kinda like making excuses for Max, when he's caught getting his A$$ spanked in kinky deviate sexual escapades...

:rolleyes: Maybe people need to consider their actions...

BEFORE complaining when they become public !!!

:s mokin:

The irony is just so delicious......!

[ArrowsFA1]

Just last night , when I quipped that Arrows must have had an epiphany , in response to Tam's noticing he seemingly had changed his view , I got a derided and ridiculed .
That's an interesting example.

I had said that I don't think there was much dispute over the invasion of privacy aspect of what was being discussed, and that is a view I have held all along. There was an invasion of privacy. For me, that has never been the main issue.

tamburello would have you believe something different. He would like to portray my views as something they are not. In order to do so he included the inflammatory comment that I was in "full anti-Max bash-mode" for effect and to provoke a reaction.

I'm not "anti"-Max. I am critical of some of his words and actions. I don't "bash" Max, but I will criticise him when I think he deserves criticism. Now I fully accept people will not agree with my views at times but I'm not insulting in response to them, nor do I send offensive PM's to those I disagree with.

Now, after tamburello enquired how I slept at night - because apparently according to him I've changed my view on an aspect of this subject (WRONG) - I'm then told I've had an "epiphany" (WRONG).

Apologies if my "fish & chip paper" comment offended.

Sometime during all of that I receive a rather offensive PM from tamburello.

A long time ago, I can't remember exactly how long but I think I may still have been a mod, I had an exchange of PM's with tamburello. Essentially I was saying that I was happy to discuss motorsport with him (that's why I joined this forum!) but I had no interest in trading insults. It was made clear to me at the time "if you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen". The meaning was obvious - 'if you don't like the insults, leave the forum, stay and the insults will continue'. tamburello has been true to his word.

I don't see why I, or anyone should sit back and allow that kind of situation to happen. It's not acceptable on this forum, in a schoolyard, in a workplace or anywhere else for that matter.

[K-Pu]

Anyway, the problem is reaching that point in something like a forum.

In fact, this is a really good forum (if you saw some of the sites I also post on...), there are almost no personal attacks and people try to back their opinions with more than a "because I say it". Before taking any measures, I hope everyone involved (or even better, everyone) thinks twice before starting a wildfire. It is just a matter of common sense, and it is not neccesary to get to this situation in a forum about F1. There is nothing wrong with being a bit spicy, making jokes or whatever, but... there is no pojnt in trying to explain this further because everybody understands what I mean.

[Knock-on]

As Ioan has mentioned , it seems a bit strange that the rules state that if the words get too heated , that the members should take it to PMs , yet , those words in the "proper" place can still get you banned .
While I don't condone his choice of words in his PM , I do feel he was directed to a place where he felt he was free to speak as he wished , therefore I do not agree that he be banned for this .

Furthermore , I feel it is a serious breach that he be quoted in the open forum , when his PMs were meant to be personal messages .



I am deeply concerned with what is going on here .

Sorry Baggy but I feel I have to answer this.

As far as I am aware, it is illegal to make physical threats of violence to another person whether it's in a PM or not.

Also, there were some quite disgusting comments made which have no place here or anywhere. I haven't had a particular quote translated but I think the intonation was very clear.

I would be concerned to have a member like that on the boards but I respect your decision to defend his rights.

[Dave B]

... and people try to back their opinions with more than a "because I say it".
Most of them, yes :)

[Knock-on]

Most of them, yes :)

I wonder how many people thought exactly the same :laugh:

[pino]

As Ioan has mentioned , it seems a bit strange that the rules state that if the words get too heated , that the members should take it to PMs , yet , those words in the "proper" place can still get you banned .
While I don't condone his choice of words in his PM , I do feel he was directed to a place where he felt he was free to speak as he wished , therefore I do not agree that he be banned for this .

Furthermore , I feel it is a serious breach that he be quoted in the open forum , when his PMs were meant to be personal messages .



I am deeply concerned with what is going on here .

Bagwan, we normally ask members to take it to PM when it starts to get too heated and personal, but that doesn't allow anyone to send insults and be rude towards other members by using PM's. Not to mention that using another language is childish and unfair, fortunatelly I understand half dozen languages so no chance that anyone can escape a punishment for that. I can assure that what tamburello wrote in italian was extremely rude/offensive and as more insults were sendt yesterday to another member, I had to do somenthing about it ! As for posting PM on forum, you're right, it's not permitted, so I will delete it !

[BDunnell]

As for posting PM on forum, you're right, it's not permitted, so I will delete it !

Or you could send it as a PM to everyone as an example of what not to do. Just a thought... ;)

[truefan72]

Bagwan, would you be defenidng him if he were not a Ferrari fan?

Being a fan of a particular team is simply not an excuse to defend the vulgar and frankly distrubing actions of Tamburello. What kind of a defense is that . Becuase he likes the same team as you means that you find his actions justifiable?

I think that just as the F1 regs have gotten a shake up for 2009, so should theese boards.
1. Foul language unacceptable
2. Viscous PM's unacceptable

3. Perhaps more than ignoring members, forumers should take it upon themselves to report such bad behavior to the mods, whenever and wherever the see it. In that way the mods can clearly see a pattern of poor form and decide on the appropriate action accordingly.

4. I also feel a more public warnign system should be in place. Members who are being reprimanded should be noted on a special sticky. XXX! has been warned for the following action...... This is the 2nd warning the third will result in ban. In that way some of these folks cannot hide behind nasty PMs and will be know to all. Also "Reports Post" stats should be displayed. After a while it will be easy to see who is being disruptive and who isn't. reported posts might get abused in the beginning but the vast majority of us will quickly notice which ones are valid and which are attempts to pun somebody.

[K-Pu]

Public punishment/warning is not the best option IMHO...

I think it is better to use, as I said before, common sense and don´t get too personal about anything, because what the hell, we are talking about something which does not decide anything personal about us!

Making a list and putting it on the gates (how metaphorical) Is something I would not do because if I were on a sticky thread tagged as "warned" I´d feel quite uncomfortable in the forum, and thinking about the reason of me being warned would be the last of my thoughts because I would not want to spend my time in a forum where I´m considered a problem.

This is a bit extreme, because with time everyone here manages to know (more or less) the other users and their tendencies, so there´s nothing new in case of being publicly warned, at least in theory.

Anyway, I said it before and I say it again: Common sense for everyone, and take it easy.

[Knock-on]

Bagwan, would you be defenidng him if he were not a Ferrari fan?


I cannot see this being the case.

I've known Baggy for years and although a staunch Ferrari fan, would not for one second expect him to be influenced in that manner.

This stuff is nothing to do with Motorsport or what team you support but rather is about people that are rude, threatening, offensive and incapable of interacting in a mature and acceptable manner.

[jens]

I must have missed something...

I was also wondering, what on earth is going on. :p :

But generally I have to say that we shouldn't be too worried, because nonetheless in my opinion the quality of this forum is continually very high and we should be proud of this. As much as I have read other F1/motorsport-related forums, the amount of personal attacks, groundless arguments and pointless debates is higher there, so I'm happy with what we have got here. It's basically impossible to have a forum with absolutely no communication issues anyway - heated debates and discussions are there to exist.

[Knock-on]

Anyway, I said it before and I say it again: Common sense for everyone, and take it easy.

And fortunatly we have a group of Mods that by and large manage to uphold these principles. (Even Janeppi when I cooled off a bit :laugh: )

[donKey jote]

Hey Knockie could you send me a (the ;) ) PM too, I'd like to brush up on my italian :D

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[ArrowsFA1]

Heated debates and discussions :up:

Differences of opinions :up:

Rude, offensive and abusive posts/PM's :down:

[Bagwan]

Thank you , Pino , for clearing that up . And for removing the PM .
Good job .

Now that we're all back to a calm state , I'll stir it up again .

Let me clear something up .
People are calling me a Ferrari fan .
I would , as a number of you who have debated with me would know , a Jacques Villeneuve fan .
I would have been very red , had JV driven there , and as I saw only red with Gilles , but , I am no real Tifoso like Tamburello .

I have cheered for Wiliams , Renault , Sauber , and BMW and have all the hats to prove it .

The one point that I guess I didn't make too clearly in my first post was that I really do understand why he gets frustrated .
I will judge a situation in F1 , and come here to find out how everyone else is reading it , and debate any points with which I disagree .
That's not so out of the ordinary .

I can't tell you all how many times I have ended up in fierce debate over Michael , not necessarily because I was a fan , but more that the vast majority of posters could not see through that red mist they accused the red supporters of being blinded by .
If it was red , it was to be picked on . They were cheaters at evey turn .

And , of course , as was often noted , everyone cheats .

I just wish to say that Tamburello , in my opinion , brings a lot to the forum with his experiences and connections and that I would bad unhappy to lose him here .
Though his reactions are sometime more extreme than I would write , I often think the same way .

This is what I want all to read , and very carefully :
These are REACTIONS , meaning that he is responding to something that YOU said .

In other words , the words that prompted that reaction you didn't like were yours .

Think about that before you respond .
Tamburello should think about it as well .

[Tazio]

This whole affair is most regrettable.
As the core group of members (those who post during the off season as well as during race season) we should be setting examples of what is acceptable discourse. I believe I will start with myself. I am not by any stretch of the imagination an authority on F1. In fact I would say that over half of what I know about F1 I have learned from this forum. I at times have put myself on the defensive, and reacted terribly. I'm here to have fun. Most of my posts are anecdotal. That's what I bring, to these boards, and what I take I believe is freely given by others! If all you bring is smack, it is in my opinion senseless! I believe respect is a prerequisite to participating, not attitude!

[ioan]

I would like to say that there are times (and that's just about every time) that I easily understand why Tamburello gets as frustrated as he does .

There are many here who make statements that are pretty thinly veiled digs at the reds .
And , there is an arrogant air floating constantly in the wings as very often people will gang up on him and anyone who defends him or his reactions .

Just last night , when I quipped that Arrows must have had an epiphany , in response to Tam's noticing he seemingly had changed his view , I got a derided and ridiculed .

I have come to expect it .
It happens all the time in the schoolyard .


As Ioan has mentioned , it seems a bit strange that the rules state that if the words get too heated , that the members should take it to PMs , yet , those words in the "proper" place can still get you banned .
While I don't condone his choice of words in his PM , I do feel he was directed to a place where he felt he was free to speak as he wished , therefore I do not agree that he be banned for this .

Furthermore , I feel it is a serious breach that he be quoted in the open forum , when his PMs were meant to be personal messages .



I am deeply concerned with what is going on here .

I support Bagwan's view 100%.

The problems are big and run very deep in the forum, this place is ridiculously tense even off-season. I don't even dare to think what will happen after the first incidents or cheating allegations appear.

[ioan]

:dozey: Hhmmm... so writing an insulting PM is only a problem if it becomes public ?

:rolleyes: Maybe people need to consider their actions...

BEFORE complaining when they become public !!!

:s mokin:

This is kindergarten behavior, it's like when you run to your mommy because your brother pulled your ear when she wasn't watching. :rolleyes:




:p : Kinda like making excuses for Max, when he's caught getting his A$$ spanked in kinky deviate sexual escapades...

He didn't spank you, so get over it, or move to Vatican's forum, we are mere mortals around here, not saints.

[ioan]

As far as I am aware, it is illegal to make physical threats of violence to another person whether it's in a PM or not.

Not sure about that.
It may be used against him if he ever does hit you, as it will be considered premeditated but otherwise, I doubt that words of menace are illegal.

[ioan]

I was also wondering, what on earth is going on. :p :

When I first saw the thread's title I was 99,99% sure it was about me, and I was speechless when I saw it wasn't the case! :D ;)

[ioan]

Bagwan, we normally ask members to take it to PM when it starts to get too heated and personal, but that doesn't allow anyone to send insults and be rude towards other members by using PM'.

Now I'll have to ask a few forum members to send me their phone numbers so that I can go ahead in peace! :D


Not to mention that using another language is childish and unfair, fortunatelly I understand half dozen languages so no chance that anyone can escape a punishment for that.

Are you any good in Hungarian and Romanian?! :p :

PS: Sorry for hijacking the thread. :)

[N. Jones]

I must have missed something...

Same here... I must have missed something even though I will not frequent the board until FGP starts (March 1st for those who wish to know!!).

[Shifter]

I, for one, henceforth will not criticize any board member for any reason. I'll stick to the facts and my opinions of sporting matters only.

So Ioan, I apologize. As David Hobbes says, discretion is the better part of valor.

[truefan72]

Thank you , Pino , for clearing that up . And for removing the PM .
Good job .

Now that we're all back to a calm state , I'll stir it up again .

Let me clear something up .
People are calling me a Ferrari fan .
I would , as a number of you who have debated with me would know , a Jacques Villeneuve fan .
I would have been very red , had JV driven there , and as I saw only red with Gilles , but , I am no real Tifoso like Tamburello .

I have cheered for Wiliams , Renault , Sauber , and BMW and have all the hats to prove it .

The one point that I guess I didn't make too clearly in my first post was that I really do understand why he gets frustrated .
I will judge a situation in F1 , and come here to find out how everyone else is reading it , and debate any points with which I disagree .
That's not so out of the ordinary .

I can't tell you all how many times I have ended up in fierce debate over Michael , not necessarily because I was a fan , but more that the vast majority of posters could not see through that red mist they accused the red supporters of being blinded by .
If it was red , it was to be picked on . They were cheaters at evey turn .

And , of course , as was often noted , everyone cheats .

I just wish to say that Tamburello , in my opinion , brings a lot to the forum with his experiences and connections and that I would bad unhappy to lose him here .
Though his reactions are sometime more extreme than I would write , I often think the same way .

This is what I want all to read , and very carefully :
These are REACTIONS , meaning that he is responding to something that YOU said .

In other words , the words that prompted that reaction you didn't like were yours .

Think about that before you respond .
Tamburello should think about it as well .

I meant no offense in any insinuation, just that you lead off your initial post with " I would like to say that there are times (and that's just about every time) that I easily understand why Tamburello gets as frustrated as he does .

There are many here who make statements that are pretty thinly veiled digs at the reds .
And , there is an arrogant air floating constantly in the wings as very often people will gang up on him and anyone who defends him or his reactions."

Which lead me to believe that you though that Tamburello had some validity in his course of action because of a perceived attacks on Ferrari. And I simply questioned if your position would hold true if it were a diiferent team Tamberllo was a supporter off. You do come across as an apologist for tamburello though and insist that outside factors must have made him react this way. This is akin to blaming the victim for a beating stating not only that they triggered the deserved beating, but also that you yourself feel the same desire to lay a few punches.

The irony in that arguments is that it clearly shows that you are unwilling to actually do what Tamburello did, thereby implicitly acknowledging that his actions are out of line . There is nothing wrong in feeling a certain way or having thoughts of doing something. There is however, a problem when one actually does those things.

[trumperZ06]

[quote="ioan"]This is kindergarten behavior, it's like when you run to your mommy because your brother pulled your ear when she wasn't watching. :rolleyes:

:p : Hey Ioan,

You don't know me, and you don't certianly DON"T know my mother.


I find your personal attacks and juvenal behavior... petty, inmature and offensive.

I would like to meet you sometime to see if you have the courage to say anything about my mother... face to face, you silly little keyboard jockey !!!

:rolleyes:

[ioan]

This is kindergarten behavior, it's like when you run to your mommy because your brother pulled your ear when she wasn't watching. :rolleyes:

:p : Hey Ioan,

You don't know me, and you don't certianly DON"T know my mother.


I find your personal attacks and juvenal behavior... petty, inmature and offensive.

I would like to meet you sometime to see if you have the courage to say anything about my mother... face to face, you silly little keyboard jockey !!!

:rolleyes:

I'll give you my phone number so you can continue spitting insults without facing a ban from pino!
Can you say I'm not a gentleman?! :rotflmao:

[trumperZ06]

This is kindergarten behavior, it's like when you run to your mommy because your brother pulled your ear when she wasn't watching. :rolleyes:

I'll give you my phone number so you can continue spitting insults without facing a ban from pino!
Can you say I'm not a gentleman?! :rotflmao:

:p : Hhmmm... I find you to be... this boards Stooge!

In many cases... you post things proving you simply haven't a CLUE !!!

:rolleyes:

[ioan]

:p : Hhmmm... I find you to be... this boards Stooge!

In many cases... you post things proving you simply haven't a CLUE !!!

:rolleyes:

Keep it up, your doing better with the insults with every post! :D

PS: Learn to quote properly! Or maybe you are getting nervous and sweating all over the keyboard?! :rotflmao:

[Bagwan]

I meant no offense in any insinuation, just that you lead off your initial post with " I would like to say that there are times (and that's just about every time) that I easily understand why Tamburello gets as frustrated as he does .

There are many here who make statements that are pretty thinly veiled digs at the reds .
And , there is an arrogant air floating constantly in the wings as very often people will gang up on him and anyone who defends him or his reactions."

Which lead me to believe that you though that Tamburello had some validity in his course of action because of a perceived attacks on Ferrari. And I simply questioned if your position would hold true if it were a diiferent team Tamberllo was a supporter off. You do come across as an apologist for tamburello though and insist that outside factors must have made him react this way. This is akin to blaming the victim for a beating stating not only that they triggered the deserved beating, but also that you yourself feel the same desire to lay a few punches.

The irony in that arguments is that it clearly shows that you are unwilling to actually do what Tamburello did, thereby implicitly acknowledging that his actions are out of line . There is nothing wrong in feeling a certain way or having thoughts of doing something. There is however, a problem when one actually does those things.

The certainly seems to be be some irony here , but more in the fact that I've tried twice now to make the point that his reactions , condoned or not , are reactions .
That is to say they are prompted .

I am not interested in punches .
I do understand Tamburello's reactions though .

[Bagwan]

This is kindergarten behavior, it's like when you run to your mommy because your brother pulled your ear when she wasn't watching. :rolleyes:

:p : Hey Ioan,

You don't know me, and you don't certianly DON"T know my mother.


I find your personal attacks and juvenal behavior... petty, inmature and offensive.

I would like to meet you sometime to see if you have the courage to say anything about my mother... face to face, you silly little keyboard jockey !!!

:rolleyes:

See , now , here's a post that has no point on the main page .

Take stuff like this to PMs . I don't want to wade through stuff like this .

[Bagwan]

I'll give you my phone number so you can continue spitting insults without facing a ban from pino!
Can you say I'm not a gentleman?! :rotflmao:

Here's a good way to goad another member into another , even more inflamatory post .

[Bagwan]

:p : Hhmmm... I find you to be... this boards Stooge!

In many cases... you post things proving you simply haven't a CLUE !!!

:rolleyes:

And , here we have that post , taking it farther down the same road .

[Bagwan]

Keep it up, your doing better with the insults with every post! :D

PS: Learn to quote properly! Or maybe you are getting nervous and sweating all over the keyboard?! :rotflmao:

And , again , more to add to the fire .




You two can post really intelligent stuff .
I've seen you have reasonable debate with other members here , both of you .

We all need to ditch some of the taunting attitude and get back to being friends talking about F1 .

I'm no angel , either , as , looking back on the situation , I guess I was out of line to a degree , jumping on the bandwagon with Tamburello when I made the epiphany crack .
Mind you , I still remember you as having a different opinion at the start , but as you are so adamant you didn't , I'm sorry .

[Bagwan]

This is going to happen every now and then .
We are human , after all .

How long is fellow human , Tamburello banned ?

[pino]

This is going to happen every now and then .
We are human , after all .

How long is fellow human , Tamburello banned ?

1 month !

Now to ioan and trumperZ06, take your stupid/childish fight to Pm and keep it off here...thank you :rolleyes:

[harsha]

*doesn't understand one bit what's happened here*

*goes back to sleep*

:p :

[SGWilko]

And , again , more to add to the fire .




You two can post really intelligent stuff .
I've seen you have reasonable debate with other members here , both of you .

We all need to ditch some of the taunting attitude and get back to being friends talking about F1 .

I'm no angel , either , as , looking back on the situation , I guess I was out of line to a degree , jumping on the bandwagon with Tamburello when I made the epiphany crack .
Mind you , I still remember you as having a different opinion at the start , but as you are so adamant you didn't , I'm sorry .


Aw shucks, we're all friends again now are we?

I'll go rush out and buy some KY, drop me kecks and ben dover shall I?

It is very clear who antagonises who on this forum. I used to post quite frequently on here, but then the 'usual suspects' just kept bleating on like the lost sheep that they are, so I decided to read the posts only and not waste my time in rising to the 'perceived morons' by posting no longer.

One day, when you all grow up a bit, I might feel I can contribute again without some petty little oik suggesting I am bashing this team, or that team. Or that I am cheat blah blah baaaah baaaah.

Listening to some of you retracting your comments and shedding crocodile tears with empty apologies is embarrasing..........

Disgruntled of Dartford!

[ArrowsFA1]

...reactions , condoned or not , are reactions .
That is to say they are prompted...
But there are different ways to react and I don't believe a reaction should be insulting or abusive, whether it be on the forum or via PM.

[ioan]

Now to ioan and trumperZ06, take your stupid/childish fight to Pm and keep it off here...thank you :rolleyes:

You see, therein lies the problem on this forum.
One member attacks another one, the 2nd one makes a bit of fun of the situation, without using insults, the 1st one takes his insults a step higher, 2nd one finds it funny so makes some more fun of the situation.

Than the moderator comes up and tells them to take it off the board or they will be banned. Which is totally wrong!
First of all you should have banned the one that started insulting another forum member!
2ndly you always put the one who is insulting and the insulted one in the same position of being banned even if only one was using insults.

If you think that you'll ever get the required respect by doing things this way than I'm sorry to tell you that it won't happen.

Usually those people who get into heated debates over here are the ones with strong personalities whom will only respect people who display a very constant and correct authority.

You a hard job in front of you, pino, and it will be getting harder by the day once the season starts, so good luck!

[pino]

You see, therein lies the problem on this forum.
One member attacks another one, the 2nd one makes a bit of fun of the situation, without using insults, the 1st one takes his insults a step higher, 2nd one finds it funny so makes some more fun of the situation.

Than the moderator comes up and tells them to take it off the board or they will be banned. Which is totally wrong!
First of all you should have banned the one that started insulting another forum member!
2ndly you always put the one who is insulting and the insulted one in the same position of being banned even if only one was using insults.

If you think that you'll ever get the required respect by doing things this way than I'm sorry to tell you that it won't happen.

Usually those people who get into heated debates over here are the ones with strong personalities whom will only respect people who display a very constant and correct authority.

You a hard job in front of you, pino, and it will be getting harder by the day once the season starts, so good luck!

ioan, I've been here long enough to know that no matter what, Mods will never get any respect, especially from memebers who are acting like kids. Thanks for your advice and for telling me how to do my job but I will stick with my way to do things in here. Yes it's a very hard job but my doctor didn't tell me I still must accept all this crap from you Guys ,so one day I will say "enough is enough" and half dozen of you Guys will end with a permanent ban !

[ioan]

ioan, I've been here long enough to know that no matter what, Mods will never get any respect, especially from memebers who are acting like kids. Thanks for your advice and for telling me how to do my job but I will stick with my way to do things in here. Yes it's a very hard job but my doctor didn't tell me I still must accept all this crap from you Guys ,so one day I will say "enough is enough" and half dozen of you Guys will end with a permanent ban !

No need to get so worked up because of a friendly advice.
IMO this forum already went by the enough is enough point.

[Bagwan]

You see, therein lies the problem on this forum.
One member attacks another one, the 2nd one makes a bit of fun of the situation, without using insults, the 1st one takes his insults a step higher, 2nd one finds it funny so makes some more fun of the situation.

Than the moderator comes up and tells them to take it off the board or they will be banned. Which is totally wrong!
First of all you should have banned the one that started insulting another forum member!
2ndly you always put the one who is insulting and the insulted one in the same position of being banned even if only one was using insults.

If you think that you'll ever get the required respect by doing things this way than I'm sorry to tell you that it won't happen.

Usually those people who get into heated debates over here are the ones with strong personalities whom will only respect people who display a very constant and correct authority.

You a hard job in front of you, pino, and it will be getting harder by the day once the season starts, so good luck!



Now , just hold up a moment there , Ioan , my friend .

You seem to be speaking from the point of view that you have no responsibility for this issue .
Can I remind you that you were half of that conversation with Trumper that I was just quoting ?

You and Trumper are long-time members here , and know exactly which buttons to push to get each other to go farther .
There are a lot of us that know each other pretty well in that sense , and , as we are human , we are tempted to do foolish things like poking pit bulls , even though we know someone will end up bitten .

To me , your post comes off as more than a little pious .
It's a bit rich to be advising Pino , when you were in that conversation .

You are right that it will become harder as the season starts .

You , and this time I mean as in , everyone here , can help .
Bury some hatchets and let's get back to talking about F1 .



Pino , you show the patience of a saint sometimes .
That was an artfully crafted response that I hope everyone read .
Nice job .

[Bagwan]

Aw shucks, we're all friends again now are we?

I'll go rush out and buy some KY, drop me kecks and ben dover shall I?

It is very clear who antagonises who on this forum. I used to post quite frequently on here, but then the 'usual suspects' just kept bleating on like the lost sheep that they are, so I decided to read the posts only and not waste my time in rising to the 'perceived morons' by posting no longer.

One day, when you all grow up a bit, I might feel I can contribute again without some petty little oik suggesting I am bashing this team, or that team. Or that I am cheat blah blah baaaah baaaah.

Listening to some of you retracting your comments and shedding crocodile tears with empty apologies is embarrasing..........

Disgruntled of Dartford!


Mr. Disgruntled , are you directing this towards me ?

[markabilly]

You guys really crack me up esp when you are being so serious.
I could say that everyone takes this all too serious and too pompous, hence why the rachet effect and all that fussing about banning...whatever happenned to can not take the heat, stay out of the kitchen...


I'll give you my phone number so you can continue spitting insults without facing a ban from pino!
Can you say I'm not a gentleman?! :rotflmao:


As a gentleman, you should just post it here, and post all languages spoken, so the caller will know to have the appropriate translator online as any gentleman would not want any misunderstandings....you do accept collect calls, I am certain.

And to show you and all the rest (even you Pino)the same courtesy, my number is 202-456-1414 (no collect calls, please), just ask for the boss, or if I am not in, just leave an explicit message as to what you wish to do to me (and include my spouse and children if so inclined), the specific pain or any weapons you would like to use, and how you may be contacted in return :D



ioan, I've been here long enough to know that no matter what, Mods will never get any respect, especially from memebers who are acting like kids. Thanks for your advice and for telling me how to do my job but I will stick with my way to do things in here. Yes it's a very hard job but my doctor didn't tell me I still must accept all this crap from you Guys ,so one day I will say "enough is enough" and half dozen of you Guys will end with a permanent ban !

How long is permanent?
"like kids"???
Go ahead name names, and if you just feel the need, go ahead and call me, tell me whachagonnado, it will make my day :burnout:

[Dzeidzei]

Aren´t you all taking this forum a bit too seriously? If having your opinions mocked is the biggest problem in your life, I trylu congratulate you all.

Come on, its supposed to be fun and informative, or did I miss something?

[SGWilko]

Mr. Disgruntled , are you directing this towards me ?

Not specifically, no.

[SGWilko]

Aren´t you all taking this forum a bit too seriously? If having your opinions mocked is the biggest problem in your life, I trylu congratulate you all.

Come on, its supposed to be fun and informative, or did I miss something?

I think you are right - but up to a point only.

Reading text is not the same as looking at someone face to face and hearing the same words. You don't get to see the 'tone' of the conversation in text.

Smileys are a poor substitute.

Why can forum posters not be allowed to post their opinions without accusations of bias or bashing.

They are opinions, and should be respected as such.

Now, let me give you a topical example.....

I got into a clash of words a while back with Tamburello, over his perception of my 'racism', due to a comment I made that contained the words 'you Italians'.

Now Tamb, clearly proud of his country, took offence and took issue with me. It got heated, but never rude IIRC.

It took Bagwan to point out - to both myself and Tamb, that we were both being eejots. I apologised for any offence and explained that none was intended. Tamb also aplolgised, as he had got the wrong end of the stick.

Now, I have of late seen a change of heart from some regulars, Baggy I think has recently been a little frivolous with the cynicism.

Ioan has too, but he seems not to be able to see how he really rubs people up the wrong way. I genuinely believe he does not see it, but he really is a pain in the butt at times, and can be enough to make a saint swear.

So, that is why I have taken to lurking, but rarely posting. MAybe the odd joke here and there poking fun at the silly folk.

And as for the mods. Yes, a thankless task, but one that is not unappreciated. If some of us get ratty with other posters, you can see why the mods are seen by some as the anti Christ!!!

[trumperZ06]

:dozey: Ioan's rudeness is shown when he jumps into the middle of a thread...

posting absolute nonsense...

attempting to prove another person's post is wrong.

;) If someone doesn't know what he is talking about...
it's simply better not to try and pretend to be knowledgable.

:D As someone once said (paraphasing)...

It's better to keep quiet and have people think you're a fool...

than to post nonsense (comments about the FIA inventing the Hans device)...

and remove all doubt.

References: posts 94 & 102 in the FIA tax man thread.

:s mokin:

[Daniel]

Search the archives. I believe I made one in 2003. :p

The forum archive has been removed :p

PS you all suck :p

[SGWilko]

PS you all suck :p

I prefer to vacuum, thanks very much............

[BDunnell]

I have the perfect answer — do as I'm doing and sit back with a nice bottle of white while watching an old video of the 1981 RAC Rally. Much better than arguing over which member sucks the most.

[SGWilko]

I have the perfect answer — do as I'm doing and sit back with a nice bottle of white while watching an old video of the 1981 RAC Rally. Much better than arguing over which member sucks the most.

Agree with the wine, but prefer red...

I much prefer a well authored DTS music DVD to unwind with.....

[Daniel]

I would also like to say that a lot of the problems on the forum wouldn't exist if the mods gave infringements for people who clearly go out to cause trouble with their posts.

Now I understand opinions will always differ on matters but there are always some forumers going around on the F1 forum spewing absolute crap within the confines of decency and politeness and so on because they've been here long enough to realise that if they call someone a ****ing idiot or something that Pino is going to ban them or give them an infringement so they merely try to annoy the other person to the point where the other person goes off at them and they get in trouble. When people take issue with what the person says or even when the moderator comes and say for them to tone it down they shrug their shoulders and say "What have I done wrong :( " and if you scour their posts technically they haven't done anything wrong, but if you look at their posts as a whole and how they deal with other posts and the facts stated within and it becomes clear that some people are merely doing what they're doing to bait others to the point where they get annoyed and break the rules and get banned or get an infringement. Which is basically their way of saying I have no debating skills so I'm going to try and get you banned so I can win by default. Now of course it's silly to fly off the handle at someone's troll but there is only so much you can take and I really think if the admins cracked down on the more blatant trolling then a lot of problems would disappear. Failing actually giving out infringements or warnings threads should be closed a lot earlier, sometimes people aren't going to agree, when things have been debated ad nauseum and the discussion is going nowhere just close the thread. Of course I'm not telling you to do this Pino just a suggestion :p

Don't laugh but I think there should be a new infringement in the style of F1 infringements of "Causing an avoidable argument". You might think I'm trying to be funny and making fun of the FIA but I genuinely believe that if someone comes on her and causes an argument on purpose then they should be punished for it IMHO.

I don't know what happened here but I bet the person that flew off the handle and got a ban didn't start it.....

P.S As the person on this forum who has probably been banned the most I think I speak with some expertise on the subject :p

[Daniel]

I have the perfect answer — do as I'm doing and sit back with a nice bottle of white while watching an old video of the 1981 RAC Rally. Much better than arguing over which member sucks the most.

I don't drink alcohol though :mark:

I do however play online games and frequently shout chains of expletives at my monitor which I find helps me deal with life :p

[mstillhere]

Bagwan, would you be defenidng him if he were not a Ferrari fan?

Being a fan of a particular team is simply not an excuse to defend the vulgar and frankly distrubing actions of Tamburello. What kind of a defense is that . Becuase he likes the same team as you means that you find his actions justifiable?

I think that just as the F1 regs have gotten a shake up for 2009, so should theese boards.
1. Foul language unacceptable
2. Viscous PM's unacceptable

3. Perhaps more than ignoring members, forumers should take it upon themselves to report such bad behavior to the mods, whenever and wherever the see it. In that way the mods can clearly see a pattern of poor form and decide on the appropriate action accordingly.

4. I also feel a more public warnign system should be in place. Members who are being reprimanded should be noted on a special sticky. XXX! has been warned for the following action...... This is the 2nd warning the third will result in ban. In that way some of these folks cannot hide behind nasty PMs and will be know to all. Also "Reports Post" stats should be displayed. After a while it will be easy to see who is being disruptive and who isn't. reported posts might get abused in the beginning but the vast majority of us will quickly notice which ones are valid and which are attempts to pun somebody.

I totally agree with every thing True fan wrote. A warning should be enough. A second one more than enough. Atre that a ban is way more than deserved.

[ioan]

Now , just hold up a moment there , Ioan , my friend .

You seem to be speaking from the point of view that you have no responsibility for this issue .
Can I remind you that you were half of that conversation with Trumper that I was just quoting ?

I never said I'm a saint.

But every discussion has two participants at least and also a robbery has at least an aggressor and a victim, going by your post the victim is at fault for being hit by the aggressor.

I sure did answer trumper's posts in a slightly provocative manner, but I didn't start the "dialogue" with him and I didn't insult him or called him names.

[Daniel]

I totally agree with every thing True fan wrote. A warning should be enough. A second one more than enough. Atre that a ban is way more than deserved.
All sounds nice but what about the person who goes out of their way to cause trouble in the first place but keeps their language civil and so on yet keeps on pushing the other person till they crack?

[ioan]

Ioan has too, but he seems not to be able to see how he really rubs people up the wrong way. I genuinely believe he does not see it, but he really is a pain in the butt at times, and can be enough to make a saint swear.

I'm pretty much aware of everything I post and what the effects of it might be, still I do not swear or use insults in my posts. And I'll keep it like this from now on too.

If someone can't answer my posts with anything other but insults, than it's not my problem cause I'm not controlling what they type.

[ioan]

:dozey: Ioan's rudeness is shown when he jumps into the middle of a thread...

posting absolute nonsense...

attempting to prove another person's post is wrong.

;) If someone doesn't know what he is talking about...
it's simply better not to try and pretend to be knowledgable.

:D As someone once said (paraphasing)...

It's better to keep quiet and have people think you're a fool...

than to post nonsense (comments about the FIA inventing the Hans device)...

and remove all doubt.

References: posts 94 & 102 in the FIA tax man thread.

:s mokin:

I'll ignore this one as a courtesy to SGWilko.

[Valve Bounce]

But every discussion has two participants at least and also a robbery has at least an aggressor and a victim,



You're not going to believe this, but there's a gang going around Sydney blowing up ATM's every night as part of a well planned ongoing robbery.

[mstillhere]

All sounds nice but what about the person who goes out of their way to cause trouble in the first place but keeps their language civil and so on yet keeps on pushing the other person till they crack?

It would be VERY important to have a very alert administrator, able to monitor, enforce the rules and punish whenever is the case. This way the victim does not need to lower himself to the level of the agressor. If the authority controls and punishes I am sure there would be very little, if any agressions.

And for those who are in the habit of using abiusive language:
go somewhere else. I totally agree with that guy who said that this site is an oasis in an ocean of abusive, filthy packed web sites. Since here we welcome only civilized debates, if you don't like it go somewhere else. If you like it, you should go by the rules of the site. I think we could all have a gentlemen agreement not to break the civility rule in this site. That's what I personally beleive is the most attractive aspetc of this site.
PS We could have a thread where all the members of this site would vote in favor or against keeping this site clean.

[markabilly]

Aren´t you all taking this forum a bit too seriously? If having your opinions mocked is the biggest problem in your life, I trylu congratulate you all.

Come on, its supposed to be fun and informative, or did I miss something?


You did not, but almost all the posters (including the mod) certainly have, as in completely. And the whining still continues

I esp love the way many here bend over backward to the mods, as though they are some sort of supreme judge over the merits of what is said. While being a mod is in many respects is a very thankless job, so what? They ain't momma

They should be on top of obsencities and such, but otherwise, really, rise above it or slide beneath it



I have yet to see one such post in this forum that warranted banning including the tamb stuff 9although I did not see all of it), but i can see why people want to use that as an excuse to bounce out of here, when the real reason is they are unhappy is that they can not find enough folks to agree with them, or to ban someone with whom they disagree with.


If you get so upset over the subject matter discussed here that you can not see the humor in it and get some laughs, get some meds and see the shrink.

Life is too short to take this forum so seriously

[Valve Bounce]

Hey!! you forgot the kool aid!!

[harsha]

If you get so upset over the subject matter discussed here that you can not see the humor in it and get some laughs, get some meds and see the shrink.

Life is too short to take this forum so seriously

:up:

true

[Garry Walker]

Here's a good way to goad another member into another , even more inflamatory post .
It was a quite funny remark from ioan, no need to get all bitchy about some innocent comments.



Usually those people who get into heated debates over here are the ones with strong personalities whom will only respect people who display a very constant and correct authority.


Exactly.


Yes it's a very hard job but my doctor didn't tell me I still must accept all this crap from you Guys ,so one day I will say "enough is enough" and half dozen of you Guys will end with a permanent ban !

With all due respect, this kind of attitude toward adults (threatning to ban) is not a good idea, this is not the first grade



You did not, but almost all the posters (including the mod) certainly have, as in completely. And the whining still continues

I esp love the way many here bend over backward to the mods, as though they are some sort of supreme judge over the merits of what is said. While being a mod is in many respects is a very thankless job, so what? They ain't momma

They should be on top of obsencities and such, but otherwise, really, rise above it or slide beneath it


I have yet to see one such post in this forum that warranted banning including the tamb stuff 9although I did not see all of it), but i can see why people want to use that as an excuse to bounce out of here, when the real reason is they are unhappy is that they can not find enough folks to agree with them, or to ban someone with whom they disagree with.


If you get so upset over the subject matter discussed here that you can not see the humor in it and get some laughs, get some meds and see the shrink.

Life is too short to take this forum so seriously

I agree 100%

[mstillhere]

"Yes it's a very hard job but my doctor didn't tell me I still must accept all this crap from you Guys ,so one day I will say "enough is enough" and half dozen of you Guys will end with a permanent ban ! "

I actually totally agree with Pino. Pino has shown over the years a very good level of tolerance and treated everyone like adults. He has even stopped my own threads. And in retrospective he was right. And I think majority of you feels in the same way.

I see some of you keeping in refering Ion as a main culrpit, conveniently forgetting others flike for example somebody from the U.S. (I can mention the name if requested).

In many cases I did get their apology and that would be the end of it but that still shows that some, although very few, need to be dealt with very directly.

So, while self restraint is applied by many of us every now and then we need to have Pino or whoever to keep the site clean, banning being the very last option, but still available just in case is needed. Again, you don't have to stay if you don't like it.

One more thing. If you think keeping this site clean is not that important, why don't you check the BBC F1 site? There before anyone posts, ALL the comments before appearing on the screen are read by some BBC employee and IF it passes the scrutiny then it gets posted. IMO it's too much control. I don't like and that's why I am here.

[MrJan]

With all due respect, this kind of attitude toward adults (threatning to ban) is not a good idea, this is not the first grade

Sadly though most of them can't be reasoned with like adults and therefore the mods are forced to take other action. Everyone seems to post on here like they are whiter than white but at one time or another we've all had a go at someone or posted something to purposefully annoy them.

Now I'll just go away again

http://www.mr2oc.co.uk/images/smiles/hide.gif

[markabilly]

Hey!! you forgot the kool aid!!


True, why waste good money on meds, shrinks and get all tensed up over taking crap, banning and being banned, people for acting like kids , when all you need is one good long drink, :beer: then sit back, relax and all your troubles be over

[Bagwan]

I never said I'm a saint.

But every discussion has two participants at least and also a robbery has at least an aggressor and a victim, going by your post the victim is at fault for being hit by the aggressor.

I sure did answer trumper's posts in a slightly provocative manner, but I didn't start the "dialogue" with him and I didn't insult him or called him names.

You did provoke him , and that's where the innocence of the victim gets a bit blurry .

It's a thin line that anyone trying to moderate walks , where one needs to try to be neutral , seeing both sides .

Your other conversation I just read , with Trumper , was rather more provocative .
This coincided with this thread , where we were speaking about exactly that .
That was a terrible exchange , in which you came off showing a really poor attitude , in my opinion .
Trumper was right to be insensed .


Sure , nobody is a saint , but everyone needs to use a little more respect .

[pino]

With all due respect, this kind of attitude toward adults (threatning to ban) is not a good idea, this is not the first grade



As long as these "adults" are acting like kids, I don't see other choice...do you ?

[Bagwan]

As long as these "adults" are acting like kids, I don't see other choice...do you ?

The threat of a ban is the only way .

The tricky part is to apply the rules without prejudice .

Overall , you do a pretty good job , Pino , and most appreciate your efforts , but it's not easy to stay completely out of the fight .
They needed a scolding , but calling them "kids" was intended as an insult .
It was well deserved , but still insulting name-calling .

It might seem a pretty moot point , but wars are started over less .

It is good that we can all take part in the moderation of the board here , and have discussions like this .


I was watching a tv show the other day about a study that showed that those who tease and call each other names was essential to the normal development of us humans .
It's all a part of finding out each other's boundaries , which show us what we want each other to respect about us .

When we touch a nerve , a reaction occurs , and that reaction is indicative of whether the issue is touchable or not .


So , when someone like Ioan provokes someone like Trumper , and Trumper reacts , both are responsible .
That's how this relates to Tamburello's ban .
He isn't alone in his responsibility for his reactions .

I knew it was risky agreeing with him that Arrows had changed his view , but only in the sense that I did it in a provocative manner , suggesting the epiphany . It was an attempt at humour , and it showed me a boundary .

I used it as an example , and he let me know why it wasn't funny . That's cool . I won't go there again .

[SGWilko]

Right, now for something comepletely different and lighthearted....

I thought I saw the name of my Ex Girlfriend written on a loaf of bread the other day.....

....Until I realised it actually said 'Thick Cut' :D

[Daniel]

I was watching a tv show the other day about a study that showed that those who tease and call each other names was essential to the normal development of us humans .
It's all a part of finding out each other's boundaries , which show us what we want each other to respect about us .

So , when someone like Ioan provokes someone like Trumper , and Trumper reacts , both are responsible .
That's how this relates to Tamburello's ban .
He isn't alone in his responsibility for his reactions .

I quite agree. If someone provokes someone they deserve what they get and they deserve a penalty for it. Same goes for the person who reacts.

[ioan]

You did provoke him , and that's where the innocence of the victim gets a bit blurry .

You ought to read this thread again, I didn't provoke him, he started the insults and I answered him without any kind of insult.
Since when is answering an insult a provocation?!

[SGWilko]

You ought to read this thread again, I didn't provoke him, he started the insults and I answered him without any kind of insult.
Since when is answering an insult a provocation?!

'He started it'

Deary dear Ioan. My kids are 5 and 3, they say that sort of thing when they argue. I assume you are older than my kids?

Point made, and hopefully taken........

[ioan]

Sure , nobody is a saint , but everyone needs to use a little more respect .

Yep as you say: "everyone"!
As long as someone starts insulting me I'm not going to respect her/him, cause I see no reason to lose my self-respect to an uncivilized person.

[Daniel]

You ought to read this thread again, I didn't provoke him, he started the insults and I answered him without any kind of insult.
Since when is answering an insult a provocation?!

Of course I don't know the thread you're all talking about but there are many ways to provoke someone without insulting them my dear Ioan :)

[ioan]

'He started it'

Yeah, he started it. There is always a start to everything and thus there is always someone who starts it, believe it or not.
You and other might be willing to bend forward and accept the insults while the mods are sleeping or turning their back on the situation, but not everyone is like you.
As I just pointed it out I'm not willing to disrespect myself in order to provide pleasure to anyone, and this will never change.


Deary dear Ioan. My kids are 5 and 3, they say that sort of thing when they argue. I assume you are older than my kids?

Point made, and hopefully taken........

Yeah the point being that you should keep this point for you and your kids.

If my kids fight over something and I can clearly see who started it than you might bet the one at fault will be punished for it straight away. And the other one will also know from that moment that if ever he/she does the same thing the punishment will be handed out evenly.

I'm sure you did take my point too, now.

PS: In case anyone wonders I'm not an adept of physical punishment and I would never hit a child, not even mine.

[BDunnell]

As I just pointed it out I'm not willing to disrespect myself in order to provide pleasure to anyone, and this will never change.

How do you plan to provide us with pleasure?

[ioan]

Of course I don't know the thread you're all talking about but there are many ways to provoke someone without insulting them my dear Ioan :)

Take this thread post #52.
Where did I say anything personal to him in order to be insulted.
In the post he is citing I was referring to people who take their PM to the mods in order to get another member banned. The result is that he started calling me insulting names.

Did I provoke him? I don't think so. But he's got chips all over his shoulders and attacks any Ferrari fans whenever he has the occasion.

Again I'm not a saint and I do provoke people whenever they get on my nerves, still I very rarely insult forum members and when I did it I got banned for it (like when I called Garry Walker a "smart as$").

Debates quite often get heated around here and those who can't support their POV often enough end up insulting the other ones.

When someone provokes or insults me I have the choice between:
- making fun of it
- report it to the mods
- get back to them with insults,
I usually do the first and 2nd ones, and very rarely resorted to the last alternative.

That's it from my POV.

[ioan]

How do you plan to provide us with pleasure?

That won't happen, not even in your wildest dreams! :p :

[Daniel]

Take this thread post #52.
Where did I say anything personal to him in order to be insulted.
In the post he is citing I was referring to people who take their PM to the mods in order to get another member banned. The result is that he started calling me insulting names.

Did I provoke him? I don't think so. But he's got chips all over his shoulders and attacks any Ferrari fans whenever he has the occasion.

Again I'm not a saint and I do provoke people whenever they get on my nerves, still I very rarely insult forum members and when I did it I got banned for it (like when I called Garry Walker a "smart as$").

Debates quite often get heated around here and those who can't support their POV often enough end up insulting the other ones.

When someone provokes or insults me I have the choice between:
- making fun of it
- report it to the mods
- get back to them with insults,
I usually do the first and 2nd ones, and very rarely resorted to the last alternative.

That's it from my POV.
I wasn't accusing you of anything. I was just saying you don't need to step outside the forum rules to provoke someone :)

[BDunnell]

If my kids fight over something and I can clearly see who started it than you might bet the one at fault will be punished for it straight away. And the other one will also know from that moment that if ever he/she does the same thing the punishment will be handed out evenly.

Now I want to know how you punish your kids. By making them watch last year's Brazilian GP, perhaps?

[MrJan]

Now I want to know how you punish your kids. By making them watch last year's Brazilian GP, perhaps?

Makes them sit in the corner wearing a McLaren hat :D :p :

[Daniel]

Now I want to know how you punish your kids. By making them watch last year's Brazilian GP, perhaps?
See! You can provoke someone without going outside the rules ;) :p : :D

Ban BDunnell I say! :D

[Valve Bounce]

How do you plan to provide us with pleasure?

1) Get some hookers
2) Get a whip
3) Ask Max where/how he wants it!! :eek:

[Valve Bounce]

pino, I'm in trouble, aren't I? :(

[Garry Walker]

Sadly though most of them can't be reasoned with like adults and therefore the mods are forced to take other action. Everyone seems to post on here like they are whiter than white but at one time or another we've all had a go at someone or posted something to purposefully annoy them.

Thankfully I am happy to admit that I am far from one of those "whiter than white" guys. I don`t hold back too often and have little tolerance for posts which I consider stupid, but it is all in good humour. That is why I liked debating with one of the former members here, flat.tyres, he could take it and dish it out, all in good humour.


As long as these "adults" are acting like kids, I don't see other choice...do you ?

Force them to watch independence day, titanic and armageddon in row. But some would call that inhumane punishment.




Again I'm not a saint and I do provoke people whenever they get on my nerves, still I very rarely insult forum members and when I did it I got banned for it (like when I called Garry Walker a "smart as$").


I must have annoyed you a lot!
They banned you for that? Well, you can keep calling me a smart ass, I am not even slightly bothered by that :D


Now I want to know how you punish your kids. By making them watch last year's Brazilian GP, perhaps?

If kids are trying to misbehave, I always warn them that if they don`t study and behave like spoilt bricks, they will grow up to be left-winged liberals and then I show them examples of such people. That seems to work like charm and there is no trouble for ages.

[ioan]

Now I want to know how you punish your kids. By making them watch last year's Brazilian GP, perhaps?

Not letting them watch their favorite cartoon is more than enough punishment for kids to realize that they did something bad and reconsider their acts.

[ioan]

They banned you for that? Well, you can keep calling me a smart ass, I am not even slightly bothered by that :D

Yeah 2 weeks for that, difficult to imagine isn't it?!

Also got a warning for saying that I'm pis$ed off! :D

[ioan]

1) Get some hookers
2) Get a whip
3) Ask Max where/how he wants it!! :eek:

1 and 3 are out of question, but I heard that option 2 can provide pleasure to some people.

[markabilly]

1) Get some hookers
2) Get a whip
3) Ask Max where/how he wants it!! :eek:


pino, I'm in trouble, aren't I? :(

Trouble ?? Oh yeah!!!!



You definitely need serious help, if you got to ask Max where/how he wants it

[markabilly]

Yeah 2 weeks for that, difficult to imagine isn't it?!

Also got a warning for saying that I'm pis$ed off! :D



smart ass??

well how many weeks for calling some folks "kids" and refferring to their posts as "crap"??

Seems a far more serious offense to me........I am shocked and mentally distressed and impinged beyond recognition....got to have some aid from my kool aide, for sure......no sleep for weeks......... :eek: my oh my :eek:

[markabilly]

Force them to watch independence day, titanic and armageddon in row. But some would call that inhumane punishment.


.

Not me, I would call it welcome relief from the constant bombardment of Hanna Montana, Sponge Bob, square pants, Sponge Bob, square Pants, sweet life of zach, all imposed by my children, almost 24/7....

[harsha]

seriously... :rolleyes:

go get yourselves a beer or something............ :cheese:

[F1boat]

That's why if I was mod, I would probably ban insulting comments on teams and even drivers. Of course, it is not democratic, but now sometimes the forum becomes very ugly and sometimes I have though it to be hideously pro-McLaren and anti-Ferrari (during 2005: anti-Renault). This is a shame, because people here generally are cool.

[leopard]

The more I pay attention to the scams, they come to me more often.

My ignore list is now left empty, I used to forward email offering me manhood pills to junk mails, I was offended as it looks like I seriously need their help...

[pino]

Yeah 2 weeks for that, difficult to imagine isn't it?!

Also got a warning for saying that I'm pis$ed off! :D

Yes, very difficult to imagine...especially after Bad pino has been asking and warning you (and everybodyelse) for months now, to not to post personal comments/attacks on the forum. Not to mention that there's a sticky thread where everyone can read the few rules that I/We were forced to put in order to keep this place clean and enjoyable for those who are here for talking F1 only...

[harsha]

there used to be a time when the forum used to moderate itself... :(

doesn't look to be the case now

[leopard]

A note we may need to remember is that the rules shouldn't be in place to confine members from putting forward their opinion. On the other hand Moderators have responsibility as part of their mandate to create a clean, positive, civilized and knowledge-based forum.

I am sure that any warning was not given to members because Moderators hate someone or certain people, but otherwise because they do care of us. ;)

[Valve Bounce]

The more I pay attention to the scams, they come to me more often.

My ignore list is now left empty, I used to forward email offering me manhood pills to junk mails, I was offended as it looks like I seriously need their help...

Did you get the ones about making your penis bigger?

[leopard]

Did you get the ones about making your penis bigger?
Bee stings are annoyingly painful, but it can make it slightly bigger. :)

[SGWilko]

Did you get the ones about making your penis bigger?

No worries on that front here.....


.....mines big enough to fill a pram, twice over!!!!!!

Currently, I get some emails that suggest I can 'make her moan all night long'. Now, I know none of you have met my wife, but she not only moans all night, but all flipping day n'all!!!!

[Daniel]

Currently, I get some emails that suggest I can 'make her moan all night long'. Now, I know none of you have met my wife, but she not only moans all night, but all flipping day n'all!!!!

:laugh:

[jens]

Makes them sit in the corner wearing a McLaren hat :D :p :

:rotflmao:

---

I don't know why, but such threads, which consist of a fair amount of personal attacks, make me simply laugh. Maybe because it's all so pointless. :)

[SGWilko]

Am I missing sommat here, or is there a perceived inability by some to laugh at humour and allow it to stand?

Strewth, puckered up tighter than a snare drum springs to mind.

So, you cannot see the wood for the trees huh? Then there will never be tolerance, will there?

[BDunnell]

Am I missing sommat here, or is there a perceived inability by some to laugh at humour and allow it to stand?

I have noticed that...

[Daniel]

Strewth

As an Australian I resent your use of "our" word without at least saying "Flamin' galah" in the same sentence :p

[Valve Bounce]

Stone the Crows!!! You sound like a stunned mullet!!

[Daniel]

Stone the Crows!!! You sound like a stunned mullet!!
'kin 'ell mate there's more Australianisms in there than there are inbred hicks in Tasmania :p

[Bagwan]

'He started it'

Deary dear Ioan. My kids are 5 and 3, they say that sort of thing when they argue. I assume you are older than my kids?

Point made, and hopefully taken........


He started it , but you can stop it .

Rather than being condescending , essentially calling Ioan a "kid" , and inflaming the discussion , you could have made your point in a better way .

When my kid was having troubles with a bully or two at his school , I pointed out to him that teasing is only fun for them , if they get the reaction they wanted .
Soon after they stopped , as they could see he wasn't going to provide the entertainment for them any more .


I think there still should be room for friendly banter , like calling each other names , but it has to be right intentioned .
Most of us know each other pretty well , and well enough to know which buttons will get what reactions .
Since it seems none of us are immune to pushing the buttons , it is logical to assume that we know that others can push ours , and logical as well that we know the motivation is to get that reaction .

In a sense , the best way to "get back your own" is to not react at all , as it is the reaction that makes the "dig" successful .

When someone calls me a tool or worse here , and I deem it to be a nasty tone , I will tend to explain myself so they understand my opinion , rather than snipe back .
If I see it as just banter , I'll give'em both barrels .

If it wasn't just banter , it becomes obvious quickly , and I try to diffuse it .


Markabilly's way of thinking would be fine if it didn't get in the way of talking about F1 .
Mixed into incessant arguments can be essential information , making it really tedious to debate any kind of sound point .

Certainly , the arguments can be entertaining to watch , but it seems to drive away those who have a lot to bring to the table .
And bans them sometimes , too .

[SGWilko]

As an Australian I resent your use of "our" word without at least saying "Flamin' galah" in the same sentence :p

Sorry cobber, us pommies are useless!

[mstillhere]

Yes, very difficult to imagine...especially after Bad pino has been asking and warning you (and everybodyelse) for months now, to not to post personal comments/attacks on the forum. Not to mention that there's a sticky thread where everyone can read the few rules that I/We were forced to put in order to keep this place clean and enjoyable for those who are here for talking F1 only...

See? I told you that nobody better than Pino can manage this site. He's very balanced with his warnings and really bans you only when you really, REALLY asked for it. He has not banned me ever, although I have a feeling I have been close a couple of times. (Have I?) Anyway, Pino, keep up the good work and don't listen to their wining. After all, if they keep in coming back after they got banned they know they actually deserved it.

[yodasarmpit]

So, are we going to ban ioan or what :D

[schmenke]

...I do not ...use insults in my posts. ....

You may not realise it ioan, but you do.

[Bagwan]

You may not realise it ioan, but you do.

And , a guy from Cowtown should know something about insults(no offense intended , hee hee ) .

[ioan]

You may not realise it ioan, but you do.

Grow yourself some tougher skin than.

[BDunnell]

Grow yourself some tougher skin than.

ioan, this demonstrates why you rub people up the wrong way. You do insult people, no matter what you might think. I know your response to this will be that you 'don't contribute to win friends or be popular', or some such, but sometimes you really should just realise when the time is right to give it a rest.

[ioan]

ioan, this demonstrates why you rub people up the wrong way. You do insult people, no matter what you might think. I know your response to this will be that you 'don't contribute to win friends or be popular', or some such, but sometimes you really should just realise when the time is right to give it a rest.

You know what? People should look in the mirror before posting about other forum members. That saying about stones and glass houses applies too.

I see lots of people turned this thread into the "Lynch Ioan thread!".
This is my last post in this poor thread.

[BDunnell]

You know what? People should look in the mirror before posting about other forum members. That saying about stones and glass houses applies too.

I see lots of people turned this thread into the "Lynch Ioan thread!".
This is my last post in this poor thread.

'Lynch ioan' was not my desire with that last post at all, and I apologise if it came across as such. Just a bit of gentle advice.

[pino]

Just wanted to inform you that, another member has been send on holiday for a while...let's see who will be next !

[Knock-on]

Just wanted to inform you that, another member has been send on holiday for a while...let's see who will be next !

Me Sir, Pleaseeeeee!!!

I need a break.

Can you let me know what insult I need to use for a long weekend break in Puerto Banus and I'll slip it into a "lets Lynch ioan and paint our arses Red" post. :D

(ps, that's a joke BTW. I'm not painting my posteria any colour, let alone Red)

[pino]

Me Sir, Pleaseeeeee!!!

I need a break.

Can you let me know what insult I need to use for a long weekend break in Puerto Banus and I'll slip it into a "lets Lynch ioan and paint our arses Red" post. :D

(ps, that's a joke BTW. I'm not painting my posteria any colour, let alone Red)

You're next on my list but I am not so stupid to ban you in off-season, I will wait for Hamilton's 1st pole of the season for that ;)

[Knock-on]

You're next on my list but I am not so stupid to ban you in off-season, I will wait for Hamilton's 1st pole of the season for that ;)

Can't you wait for Buttons :D

[Dave B]

You're next on my list but I am not so stupid to ban you in off-season, I will wait for Hamilton's 1st pole of the season for that ;)
28th of March, then :p

[Tazio]

Just wanted to inform you that, another member has been send on holiday for a while...let's see who will be next !
With or without pay? :p :

[truefan72]

man not knowing who it is is killing me

...oh wait, just figured it out ;)

[MrJan]

man not knowing who it is is killing me

...oh wait, just figured it out ;)

Is it me? :D

[markabilly]

Just wanted to inform you that, another member has been send on holiday for a while...let's see who will be next !


What? You did it to yourself? Well next time maybe you will have learned your lesson about calling members "kids" and threatening them



You're next on my list but I am not so stupid to ban you in off-season, I will wait for Hamilton's 1st pole of the season for that ;)


Guess not learned afterall..... but good news we will be waiting for Knockie to bite the dust, before lightning strikes again........

[markabilly]

Is it me? :D
yes
happy now

[F1boat]

You're next on my list but I am not so stupid to ban you in off-season, I will wait for Hamilton's 1st pole of the season for that ;)

This is becoming a bit like a "Friday the 13th" movie. Do something wrong and you are chopped.