Endagered species [Archive] - Motorsport Forums

ioan

9th February 2009, 09:55

Hi everyone.
I thought about starting a thread where people can list endangered species, with a link or two where we can read about them.
My intention is to have a thread where we can gather more knowledge about what the nature is going through and learn to give it the respect it deserves for such a huge diversity.

First on the list will be a very very rare and endangered bear species: Ursus Arctos Gobiensis (The Gobi Bear).

It seems there are as few as 30 of them left, and very little is known about them.

Here's a link where you can learn a bit more about them:

http://www.arkive.org/gobi-bear/ursus-arctos-gobiensis/

Your turn now. :)

Please keep this thread civilized and clean. Thank you!

Storm

9th February 2009, 10:30

Unfortunately our beautiful national animal is endangered..the amazing Bengal Tiger.

I plan to visit one of the tiger reserves sometime this year...here is a link for Project Tiger..not sure about the info on it though

http://projecttiger.nic.in/

ShiftingGears

9th February 2009, 11:01

The Hyacinth Macaw.
http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/staticfiles/NGS/Shared/StaticFiles/animals/images/primary/hyacinth-macaw.jpg
http://www.worldwildlife.org/science/projects/item8605.html
Largest parrot in the world, endangered due to their frequent capture for use as pets.

The Gouldian Finch.
http://www.physorg.com/newman/gfx/news/Gouldian_Finches.jpg
Less than 2500 in the wild. However common as a domesticated bird.
http://www.wwf.org.au/articles/feature17/

Garry Walker

9th February 2009, 11:23

Great thread/idea, Ioan.

South China Tiger - no specimen left in wild.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_China_Tiger

Iberian lynx http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/Linces19.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_lynx

steve_spackman

9th February 2009, 23:26

polar bear

http://www.worldwildlife.org/species/finder/polarbear/polarbear.html

donKey jote

9th February 2009, 23:33

nessie

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loch_Ness_Monster

:dozey:

oh and me wild ass
http://www.animalinfo.org/species/artiperi/equuafri.htm

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

anthonyvop

10th February 2009, 04:36

American Crocodile

http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/reptiles/american-crocodile.html

Might be endangered but not in my neighborhood. I have seen them basking on the shores of the canal behind my house.

Manatee

http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/manatee.html

Nature's inshore speedbump. Frequent the canals behind my house as well.

Knocker69

10th February 2009, 07:35

Florida Panther - estimated 80 to 100 left

http://sweetmagnoliaphoto.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/florida_panther_with_cub.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_panther

Easy Drifter

10th February 2009, 07:55

Eastern Cougar in Ont. MNR claims there are none. One case of scat DNA says at least one. Obviously more but not common.
There have been sightings near here but MNR insists people are wrong. Two of the people seeing them have been MNR field officers but the Head Office boys say they were wrong.
I don't think the desk jockeys would know a cougar if it bit them you know where!
Our Provincial Minister of Natural Resourses has never hunted or fished and is from the City of Toronto. A heck of a lot she knows about wild life. Well four legged wild life any way.
Trumpter Swans were almost extinct but gradually making a comeback. Wye Marsh Conservation area just a few K. from here has been working to save them and succeeding. I saw 24 on the bay in front of my place last year.

ioan

10th February 2009, 10:19

Our Provincial Minister of Natural Resourses has never hunted or fished and is from the City of Toronto. A heck of a lot she knows about wild life. Well four legged wild life any way.

There are people who know a lot about the wildlife without having to kill the animals. Take biologists for example, or mountaineers, they are in constant contact with wildlife without feeling the urge to shoot something.

I'll be a happy man the day when hunters and fishermen will be an extinct or at least highly endangered species.

Easy Drifter

10th February 2009, 18:02

The majority of sport fishermen catch and release.
However many in this country fish and hunt to supplement their diet. Some to survive.
Where I live is tourist country and many people are laid off in the winter so hunting and fishing provides food. Both are regulated as to seasons and numbers.
Many of the main conservationalists are members of Fish and Game Clubs. The Orillia Club maintains a large sanctuary.
When I hunted and fished I ate what I shot and caught.
I no longer hunt but I practice catch and release when fishing.
My meat is mostly Buffalo and Elk with some Venison. All are farmed.
Wild Turkey were reintroduced into Ont. in the late 80's. They have thrived and expanded their range. Limited huntng was allowed a few years ago. There are now so many that hunting season has been expanded.
In some areas there are so many they are seriously damaging crops.
The spring bear hunt was stopped a few years ago by pressure from the 'tree huggers'. We now are having problems with too many bears with them going into cities and towns.
Hunting and fishing have to be regulated and there were few problems when MNR was run by the 'old timers'.
Now the top beauracrats are city boys with degrees and no field experience.

ioan

10th February 2009, 18:41

The spring bear hunt was stopped a few years ago by pressure from the 'tree huggers'. We now are having problems with too many bears with them going into cities and towns.

Why do you think that bears are coming into cities and towns (back home in my country it happens every day too)?

I say it is because we did invade and destroy their natural habitat taking up too much of their space.

Tazio

10th February 2009, 19:51

Hey Drifty why did you stop harvesting fish?
The Idea of going fishing for the express purpose of torturing fish
is an issue I have down in So Cal.
Although I'm not as active as I used to be I am a Bass Fisherman
And by most other Bass Fishermens definition, one of substantial accomplishment
There are legal limits for a reason.
Selective harvest is beneficial for the health of a fishery
Barrett Lake in San Diego County was closed from 1967 until
roughly 1997 because the access road collapsed. When it was reopened
You had to enter a lottery to fish the lake. A very limited number of fishermen were allowed on the lake. All Bass caught had to be released, and only barbless hooks were permitted. I entered the lottery the first couple of years but never got my number called. 100 fish caught and released by fisherman was commonly reported. Big ones too. A friend of mine fished it after it had been open for 5 or 6 years. I asked him how the fishing was.
He said he caught a lot of Bass but he said a large portion of them were freakish. He said that he would catch a bass with the head of an eight pounder but its body was stunted and weighed roughly half that much. He said it was overwhelmingly the case, although, there were plenty of small fish with normal proportions. I could only deduce from this that these fish had become conditioned to every other thing the strike/eat/bite had a hook in it. When they did feed they would get the lure after fighting for its life and releasing large quantities of lactic acid into their system they would not be inclined to feed due to a near death experience. When I say that I mean a Bass, and most other fish during a particularly protracted fight do come damn near dying. In fact many do. Just because a fish swims away after it released doesn't mean it lives. This type of death isn’t like poisoning where the fish will float belly up! They will just die and sink! I think the difference up north is you have a lot more water The Reservoirs in SD County ,though producing most of the largest Largemouth Bass ever caught are miniscule compared to areas of North America further north! The mortality rate in cold water fisheries has much more to do with the delicate nature of the body surface, and if you are not extremely careful when you release a trout for instance
you will kill it. The best method is to simply grab the hook with needle nose pliers and carefully extract the hook without touching its body!
Natural native brook trout is every bit as good as Wild Salmon I don't know how you can resist some of these delicacies.

So here is my take on conservation of fish. Either selectively harvest fish from the lake/pond/river or make it off limits to all fishing. After all nature will take its course if left alone ;)

BTW Fishing is not a sport!
It's a recreation.
Professional tournament fishermen are those individuals who never had a lick of talent in any real sport and have finally found something they can hang their hat on :dozey:
I'm out of here chief :)

Eki

10th February 2009, 21:06

From Finland, the ringed seal:

http://www.aurora.komvux.norrkoping.se/etel/nature/07/norppa.htm

http://www.aurora.komvux.norrkoping.se/etel/nature/07/kuutti.jpg

leopard

11th February 2009, 03:50

Sumatran tiger is now strictly protected under endangered species conservation program. It will be great loss if such beautiful, artistic, and clever species like them have to come to extinction...

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/08/08/the_tiger_version_of_homer_simpson.jpg

Valve Bounce

11th February 2009, 04:39

How about the White Tiger? http://images.google.com.au/images?hl=en&q=White+Tiger&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=p0mSSbuMB53gsAPI4ZS6Cw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title

I don't know if it is endangered, but they sure are beautiful.

leopard

11th February 2009, 04:55

Easy Drifter

11th February 2009, 05:35

Tazio

11th February 2009, 05:50

Taz: My right hand is now partially damaged by a Brown Recluse Spider bite and I cannot safely clean fish (Filet). All fingers but mainly my little finger and thumb have limited mobility. It varies from day to day.
I actually very rarely fish anymore.
You got bit by a Brown Recluse? Scary Movie :s hock:
Along with the Black Widow the most venomous spider in North America

Easy Drifter

11th February 2009, 06:33

Twice. No lasting effects the first time many years ago.
This last time a couple of years ago.
They are extremely rare this far north but they seem to like me. The first time was at my parents' place 25 miles from here. This last time at our then store.
A pathologist friend identified the first bite. My doctor poo pood this second one but I knew what I was looking at and a couple of our customers also had experience with the bites and agreed with me.
My whole right arm was originally affected and my hand was more or less useless for several months. I couldn't even write for several weeks. Driving was difficult as I couldn't really grip the wheel with my right hand and limited shoulder movement.
In addition to limited use (not too bad now) of my fingers I have not got anywhere near the strength I used to have in that hand.
Nothing compred to what your son's problems though.

Garry Walker

11th February 2009, 10:38

There are people who know a lot about the wildlife without having to kill the animals. Take biologists for example, or mountaineers, they are in constant contact with wildlife without feeling the urge to shoot something.

I'll be a happy man the day when hunters and fishermen will be an extinct or at least highly endangered species.

Why do you think that bears are coming into cities and towns (back home in my country it happens every day too)?

I say it is because we did invade and destroy their natural habitat taking up too much of their space.

I couldn`t agree more with those two posts.

ioan

11th February 2009, 13:50

gadjo_dilo

11th February 2009, 15:04

Why do you think that bears are coming into cities and towns (back home in my country it happens every day too)?

I say it is because we did invade and destroy their natural habitat taking up too much of their space.
I say it is because:
- they can't find enough food in the forest;
- they've got used to our food and have started to like it;
- people love to see them coming for food and feeding them has become a sort of tourist attraction.

Tazio

11th February 2009, 17:24

Twice. No lasting effects the first time many years ago.
This last time a couple of years ago.
They are extremely rare this far north but they seem to like me.How have you fared with Lightning strikes? :p :

leopard

12th February 2009, 04:10

Beautiful lil' cat! :D

What do you mean by "artistic" species.
Artistic means aesthetically pleasing which is characterized by a heightened sensitivity to beauty. I just think the physical of cat is beautiful.

The picture is a young tiger, he has been trained to pounce on its prey skillfully. :)

Eki

12th February 2009, 08:54

Artistic means aesthetically pleasing which is characterized by a heightened sensitivity to beauty. I just think the physical of cat is beautiful.

The picture is a young tiger, he has been trained to pounce on its prey skillfully. :)
But he can use a chair.

Daniel

12th February 2009, 18:51

I know arctic foxes are marked as "least concern" but I think they're worthy of a mention.

I mean how cool do they look?

http://www.jennifermarohasy.com/blog/archives/arctic%20fox_copy.jpg

Cubs
http://www.stockphotosofanimals.com/images/070907134050_Adorable_Arctic_Fox_LG.jpg

What lovely animals :)

I'm happy for people to fish/hunt as long as the species they kill are not endangered or threatened and as long as it's for food. I think killing for the sake of killing is just stupid.

Nice thread Ioan :up: There are some truly marvellous animals out there. Just the other day we were driving along a country lane not far from home and saw what I think was a hawk just sitting proudly on a fencepost and just looking at us :) I don't really like birds as such but I really like birds of prey and think they're magnificent things up close.

Eki

12th February 2009, 18:59

ioan

12th February 2009, 20:03

I say it is because:
- they can't find enough food in the forest;

And why is that?

- they've got used to our food and have started to like it;
- people love to see them coming for food and feeding them has become a sort of tourist attraction.

But first they were forced to quit the forest and come into human settlements, and we are back to my first question, why?!

ioan

12th February 2009, 20:04

The picture is a young tiger,

Really?! :p :

ioan

12th February 2009, 20:06

leopard

13th February 2009, 03:20

But he can use a chair.
Give him a notebook, he will type and talk in forum. :)

Easy Drifter

13th February 2009, 04:11

Probably make as much sense as the rest of us do at times except he might be a little catty. :D

anthonyvop

13th February 2009, 04:38

Florida Panther - estimated 80 to 100 left

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_panther
One of the biggest eco-scams going.

It is a Mountain Lion. Some consider it a sub species some don't.
Either way any genetic difference was erased years ago with the introduction of western Mountain Lions to build up the stock.

anthonyvop

13th February 2009, 04:40

leopard

13th February 2009, 05:23

Man that would make a cool coat!!!

He will bite before you make him a cool coat.

Eki

13th February 2009, 06:54

He will bite before you make him a cool coat.
Unfortunately they don't. They are very trusting of humans. That's partly why they were almost hunted to near extinction before they became protected.

leopard

13th February 2009, 07:20

If they do not bite, they claw.

Daniel

13th February 2009, 14:26

Man that would make a cool coat!!!

I personally wouldn't have a problem if someone did that and ate the meat :) but I really think that killing an animal as cool as that is a bit stupid but hey that's just me :)

gadjo_dilo

16th February 2009, 08:58

And why is that?

But first they were forced to quit the forest and come into human settlements, and we are back to my first question, why?!
I don't pretend that my theory is right but I see it as a posibility:

Once upon a time when you even weren't alive, there was a guy we used to call " the first hunter of the country ". To satisfy his hunting ambitions ( they say that he killed about 4000 bears during his life ) , the silvic organs who were in charge with the national cinegetic fund, started to feed the bears regularly and artificially. In time it has become an easier way to get food but very dangerous for the species future.
These days "artificial " food is not enough and in order to survive some bears have been attracted by the garbage from the city limits. It's not a secret that people like to feed them, that the "bear show" takes place every night, that places like Racadau have become famous even abroad, that people come very close to bears and take pictures, etc.

A.F.F.

16th February 2009, 09:13

but I really think that killing an animal as cool as that is a bit stupid but hey that's just me :)

Surely a pimp knows what looks cool and what's not.

ioan

16th February 2009, 21:11

I don't pretend that my theory is right but I see it as a posibility:

Once upon a time when you even weren't alive, there was a guy we used to call " the first hunter of the country ". To satisfy his hunting ambitions ( they say that he killed about 4000 bears during his life ) , the silvic organs who were in charge with the national cinegetic fund, started to feed the bears regularly and artificially. In time it has become an easier way to get food but very dangerous for the species future.
These days "artificial " food is not enough and in order to survive some bears have been attracted by the garbage from the city limits. It's not a secret that people like to feed them, that the "bear show" takes place every night, that places like Racadau have become famous even abroad, that people come very close to bears and take pictures, etc.

But even if that is true they were feeding the bears deep in the forests far from settlements. This doesn't explain why a bear is coming into a noisy, and dangerous for it, town.

IMO it's rather because the town got way to close to the bear's habitat and he has no other choice, given that he has much less forest at disposal to feed from.

I know what happens in Racadau, I live in Brasov for 5 years during my studies.

PS: I was very much alive, for quite some time, when Ceausescu was still alive and shooting bears.

ioan

16th February 2009, 21:12

Surely a pimp knows what looks cool and what's not.

:D ;)

gadjo_dilo

17th February 2009, 08:25

But even if that is true they were feeding the bears deep in the forests far from settlements. This doesn't explain why a bear is coming into a noisy, and dangerous for it, town.

IMO it's rather because the town got way to close to the bear's habitat and he has no other choice, given that he has much less forest at disposal to feed from.

They say that the " feeding places " are quite close to Racadau and the bears may sweep long distances ( up to 100 km ) looking for food.

But you might also have your part of the truth.....

P.S. I've just found an interesting report on this issue.
http://www.animalutze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30
It's interesting that in the period of the year when hunting was permitted and the artificial food was more, the visits of the garbage-bears in Racadau decreased.

ioan

4th March 2009, 15:08

That's it?
Only a dozen of endangered species on Earth?!
And no endangered fish or other aquatic life form?

Common people, add to this thread to let us know more about the beauty and diversity of nature that we need to protect. :)

Garry Walker

4th March 2009, 16:52

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/4786794/Rare-cheetah-caught-on-camera-trap-in-Sahara.html

The very rare Saharan cheetah.

schmenke

4th March 2009, 23:24

Drew

4th March 2009, 23:38

Here you go :dozey:

http://www.earthsendangered.com/

All this thread needed was one post, bish bash bosh and the job's a good'un.

ioan

6th March 2009, 15:48

Here you go :dozey:

http://www.earthsendangered.com/

Thanks for the link.
I hope lots of people will take a look to what it's on that page.

My idea of this thread was to get pictures and info directly here so that people get the info in front of their eyes without the need to search around for it, because we all know that we live in an era where people are affected most by what they see, by what shocks them directly not by what they might or might not search on the net.

Cheers :)

Mark in Oshawa

6th March 2009, 17:56

Ioan, I like your passion but before you continue on saying we are wrong to be infringing on habitats and taking wildlife away, let me pose this question? Is human life less precious than any animals? Would you rather see people die than animals die?

Hunting and fishing are cultural activities as far as city people are concerned but to many they are a way of feeding one's family. I am all for conservation and preserving habitats but I fail to see where people cannot understand that some forms of regulated hunting are necessary. Ontario is up to its ears in black bears. The hunt was cut in half with the cancellation of the Spring hunt leaving a 2 week season in the fall.

The problem is the black bear population has exploded. Bear attacks are up. Bear incursions into populated areas are up. I love bears, think they are noble and smart but THAT is the problem too. They adapt to our habitat and become an issue because they will attack people when they think they are threatened, even when they are not in reality. The reality is hunters are just another predator. With rifles and bows, they are more efficient now than the stone clubs and rocks of the neanderthals so we now restrict the hunts but we cannot ever eradicate hunting. Deer, bears and other species that interact with man are allowed to be hunted because population control issues. Too many deer make for a sicker weaker herd, and end up dying in the wild or on the hoods of one too many cars on the highways.
Hunting when regulated and governed properly benefits society while preserving and giving value to the species. Not to mention that we are part of the natural cycle. Humans are the top of the food chain. We don't think of ourselves as animals but we are.

As for endangered species, I am all for protecting them and prohibitiing the hunting of them. We just need to be clear on what we are doing preserving them and what truly is an endangered species. Polar Bears was an example Steve Spackman put up there. Tell that to the Innuit of the Canadian Arctic though. They are not seeing Polar Bear numbers dropping in a lot of areas. They are seeing more and more of them walking through settlements. Endangered species are being used as political tools for political agendas to control or corral economic activity. I would hate to see this.

As for showing the nice pictures of all these wild predators looking cute, remember....they live in a kill or kill be killed world. Those cats are hunters...just as we are.....

schmenke

6th March 2009, 18:29

... Bear incursions into populated areas are up. .....

Just the opposite really... :mark:

Mark, I can see where ioan is coming from. Human disregard for wildlilfe habitat is disgraceful. Next time you're in Cowtown, look me up and I'll take you for a drive to show you how this city's limits have expanded outwards in the last few years with absolutely no regard for the environment, ecosystem or wildlife habitat (then we'll go for a beer...). Incompetent city planning has allowed urban sprawl to progress unchecked to the extent that this city of ~1 million people now has a greater footprint than greater Los Angeles :s .
Just a few years ago my family could sit on our backyard patio in the evening and listen to the coyotes howling nearby; now all we hear is traffic :dozey:

F1boat

6th March 2009, 22:17

I believe that protecting endangered species should be one of the top priorities to humanity in this and following centuries...

yodasarmpit

7th March 2009, 01:14

Unfortunately it's part of life o this planet, species die out and new species arise.

Without this cycle we wouldn't be here.

Easy Drifter

7th March 2009, 03:02

Schmenke: I will not argue with you about the bear population and other wildlife around Calgary. But here in Ontario I will disagree big time.
The black bear population is becoming a problem. Not from expansion and loss of habitat but by increasing numbers. Certainly the GTA has expanded and there is less and less natural habitat there but then there haven't been bears in that area, except for the odd stray for 100 years.
I live on Georgian Bay, southern area, and we are seeing more and more bears. Twenty years ago a bear here was a rarity. I spent my summers up here as a youth in the 50's and never saw a bear or heard of any. I moved to this area 20 years ago and there was just the odd bear report. Now they are common and I have seen several over the last few years. We have had bears in Victoria Harbour where I live for the last 3 years and where our store was in Waubaushene for the past 7 years. Not often but once or twice a year. That did not happen years ago. There are more people moving up this way from the GTA but not encroaching on wilderness to any great extent.
Orillia when I moved here from the GTA in 89 was 27,000. It is now 31,000 but almost all expansion was into former farm land. Same with Barrie from 50,000 to 135,000. Almost all farm land not wilderness.
MNR desk jockeys with their college degrees also say there are no Cougars in Ont. but their field officers sure disagree. They also claim there are no Timber Wolves in southern Ont., only Coyotes. My ears tell me different and I do know the difference in sounds. My eyes also know the difference and what crossed the highway in front of me last fall sure was not a Coyote! People who live here just laugh at the MNR desk boys.
Wild Turkey were re-introduced here in 1988. I saw my 1st ones in 89 and that was something. Now we are overrun and I see flocks of up the 50 birds several times a year. They are causing much damage to crops.
Oh and Grizzlies have been spotted in Northern Manitoba for the first time in 70 years.
However there is no doubt some species are threatened. Almost all frogs in Ont. are in danger and they are banned as bait commercially. Turtles are threatened as is the Massassauga Rattler, although they seem to be slowly increasing in numbers.
Beaver are also making, and have been for 20+ years a real comeback.
But with the spring Bear hunt cancelled Black Bears are becoming a real problem and they are working there way further south all the time. They are quickly adapting to being around humans and finding food sources such as bird feeders plus of course garbage. They are pretty clever.
By the way 'Mark from Oshawa' may live in the GTA but he knows the area up here and has spent time in what is generally called central Ontario.
We jokingly say people from the GTA do not know there is life north of Highway 7. Soon it will be north of Barrie!

ioan

7th March 2009, 22:03

Ioan, I like your passion but before you continue on saying we are wrong to be infringing on habitats and taking wildlife away, let me pose this question? Is human life less precious than any animals? Would you rather see people die than animals die?

To me they are equal.
I grew up at my grand parents house/farm on the outskirts of a small town, and I always considered animals to be worth as much as a human (which happens to be an animal too).

Seeing innocent people die makes me as sad as seeing innocent animals die.
If using force against another human means I could save an innocent animal than I would not hesitate taking any necessary measure.

ioan

7th March 2009, 22:08

Unfortunately it's part of life o this planet, species die out and new species arise.

Without this cycle we wouldn't be here.

That's a bit oversimplified.
Species die out, but the natural cycle takes thousands of years, not a few tens.

ioan

7th March 2009, 22:19

Orillia when I moved here from the GTA in 89 was 27,000. It is now 31,000 but almost all expansion was into former farm land. Same with Barrie from 50,000 to 135,000. Almost all farm land not wilderness.

Who says that bears were not wandering on those farm lands before without being spotted so often?
Now that those area become a densely populated area it is only logical that more people will spot more bears.

I believe that in order to reproduce and survive any animal needs food first of all. if there is not enough food than the stronger animals will ultimately kill the weaker ones and the proportions will be reestablished. This is how nature works.

I believe you as far as the wild turkeys case because their artificial reintroduction in a pretty much stable areal might have destabilized the ecosystem as it happened in so many other cases (take Oz for the worse example there is, they had so many human stupidity induced ecological catastrophes in the last century).

To keep it short, my conclusion is that nature manages its own equilibrium very well as far as we, human beings, decide we are above nature and we can do whatever we want.

jso1985

9th March 2009, 00:40

I'm gonna make it simple.

whoever here thinks shooting and killing animals for fun is acceptable, I hope you die shot by a terrorist who at the same time thinks it's also fun to shoot at humans.

Easy Drifter

9th March 2009, 02:26

The vast majority of the hunting done here is done for food by the locals and in controlled seasons. Even the hunters from the city normally take the animals and birds for food as well as trophies.
When I hunted I and my family ate what we shot.
Further, some culling is required in many areas. If it is not done by hunters then over population and weakness will spread through the herd or population. In many areas there are no longer the natural predators.
There really is no complete answer but if man had not hunted years ago man would not have survived.
My supper tonight will be venison, legally killed.
The City of Toronto currently is having a problem with the proliferation of Canada Geese and their poop polluting the beaches and the water off them.
The numbers have exploded. A sensible solution would be a controlled culling and the geese supplied to the various missions and food banks (charities) to feed those in need.
The tree huggers will not allow this, so the beaches are polluted and eventually more and more of Lake Ontario where Toronto gets its water from.
Ioan: I live here. I have either lived here or spent much of my time in this area all my life. There now is a bear problem. It started when the Spring Bear hunt was stopped several years ago by pressure from people in the cities in southern Ont., mostly the GTA. Those same people are now the ones yelling the loudest when they have a bear near their summer place.
Those who live here know there are more bears around but unless you get between mom and her cubs there normally is not much danger. That said they are a wild animal and are losing there fear of humans.

raikk

17th March 2009, 09:08

To me they are equal.
I grew up at my grand parents house/farm on the outskirts of a small town, and I always considered animals to be worth as much as a human (which happens to be an animal too).

Seeing innocent people die makes me as sad as seeing innocent animals die.
If using force against another human means I could save an innocent animal than I would not hesitate taking any necessary measure.

I share very similar views on that subject as well..

Black Footed Ferret
http://endangeredmammals.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/black_footed_ferret2.jpg

The Black-footed Ferret is a endangered mammal in North America, according to the U. S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS). They became extirpated in the wild in Canada in 1937, and were classified as endangered in the U.S. in 1967. The last known wild population was taken into captivity in the mid-1980s, a few years after its accidental discovery in Wyoming. Release of captive animals has successfully re-introduced the species to parts of its former habitat, and currently these populations have made what has been called an "astonishing comeback"

ioan

17th March 2009, 17:21

Excellent info raikk! :up:
Thanks for your input! :)

Camelopard

17th March 2009, 22:12

Natures payback!

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008771214_apasindonesiatigerattacks.html

" illegal loggers sleeping near a pile of wood - were killed as they slept Saturday in protected forest on Sumatra island"

"The Sumatran tiger is the world's most critically endangered tiger subspecies.
Only about 250 of the cats are left in the wild, the Forestry Ministry said, compared to about 1,000 in the 1970s. The tigers' diminishing population is largely blamed on poaching and the destruction of their forest habitat for palm oil and wood pulp plantations."

Mark in Oshawa

17th March 2009, 22:37

To me they are equal.
I grew up at my grand parents house/farm on the outskirts of a small town, and I always considered animals to be worth as much as a human (which happens to be an animal too).

Seeing innocent people die makes me as sad as seeing innocent animals die.
If using force against another human means I could save an innocent animal than I would not hesitate taking any necessary measure.

So do you eat meat? Listen, no one sane really enjoys killing for the sake of killing. However, whether you like it or not we are part of the food chain. WE are animals, just highly developed ones.

The Bears are becoming a nuisance to various communities in Ontario. So when kills a child, Sorry, I feel bad for the bear but I will grieve more for the child. The child are innocent and his parents are innocent. Heck..the BEAR is innocent but the BEAR isn't a human and I think most of us value human life just a tad more than a bear. Where does it end? Do we refrain from killing rats in a restaurant? Where does it end?

Mark in Oshawa

17th March 2009, 22:43

Just the opposite really... :mark:

Mark, I can see where ioan is coming from. Human disregard for wildlilfe habitat is disgraceful. Next time you're in Cowtown, look me up and I'll take you for a drive to show you how this city's limits have expanded outwards in the last few years with absolutely no regard for the environment, ecosystem or wildlife habitat (then we'll go for a beer...). Incompetent city planning has allowed urban sprawl to progress unchecked to the extent that this city of ~1 million people now has a greater footprint than greater Los Angeles :s .
Just a few years ago my family could sit on our backyard patio in the evening and listen to the coyotes howling nearby; now all we hear is traffic :dozey:

It is disgraceful if you buy into the idea that we humans could live somewhere else. Hey, lets be frank. If the populuation of Canada is increasing about 250000 every year, where will they go? Yellowknife to invade the ecosystem? How about upwards and onwards in the GTA? They are doing that until they get tired of living in concrete boxes and decide they want to own a home. Did you move to a home that was once on the edge of town? Will you condemn those who bought new houses further out?

I have been to Calgary, and I dont disagree the city has spread out but it has done that because those people need to be somewhere. You cannot condemn or tell people they cannot own their little postage stamp lot and house. Calgary is far more "dense" in its urban plan than a lot of American urban areas. I know, I have been to Calgary and other cities across the continent. We as humans are moving into wild areas and habitats by animals. No doubt this is bad for the animals but as long as we as humans preserve areas just for wildlife and do our level best to preserve species, that is the best we as people can do. You cannot condemn people to not want what you have.

Where animal rights activists to me have missed the point is that we are animals too. Destructive. Wasteful at times, but we are animals. We are the top of the food chain. The sooner people realize that the better. We have to preseve the ecosystem where possible and allow wildlife to live as best we can but lets stop the fiction that animals should take precedent over human life.

Mark in Oshawa

20th March 2009, 19:49

Here is a story of nature and Man not seeing eye to eye from today's paper:

http://www.torontosun.com/news/weird/2009/03/20/8826626.html

Apparently Mr. Moose didn't like the noise the people's pets were making.

Now....while I am all for preserving Mr. Moose, if he wont stay out of my house...I may have to make him pay just like any other house invasion. Where's the shotgun??

Easy Drifter

21st March 2009, 00:44

Those who have read my posts know I believe in controlled hunting and fishing.
Well here is what happens, and rightly so, when you overstep your bounds.
A fisherman ice fishing on Lake Simcoe was checked by the MNR. He had 2 whitefish in his bucket (legal). The officer looked a little more and discovered 4 more hidden in a backback. Limit is 2.
Result: $3,000.00 fine, confiscation of fishing gear and snowmobile and ban on fishing.
The fine should have been higher I feel.

Eki

21st March 2009, 09:51

The Bears are becoming a nuisance to various communities in Ontario. So when kills a child, Sorry, I feel bad for the bear but I will grieve more for the child. The child are innocent and his parents are innocent. Heck..the BEAR is innocent but the BEAR isn't a human and I think most of us value human life just a tad more than a bear. Where does it end? Do we refrain from killing rats in a restaurant? Where does it end?
How many children have bears killed in Ontario lately?

Eki

21st March 2009, 09:55

I read some good news yesterday. They said the otter population in Finland is recovering.

http://www.aura.fi/kirjasto/nayttelyt/kotamaki/saukko.jpg

Mark in Oshawa

21st March 2009, 20:41

How many children have bears killed in Ontario lately?

one or two people a year have been killed by Bears in Ontario and Quebec the almost every year. The thing is, they are having bear alerts and not letting the kids in the school yard out for weeks at a time every spring. Most northern towns are very bear aware.

The Black bear is not endangered and is becoming more and more prevalent than before. Bear incursions where they are breaking into cabins or any location where there is garbage is WAY up. I never used to see bears at all but saw at least 2 last year near my mother-in-laws. Last year one was hit by a car on the highway not 200m from the driveway.

While I am all for bears having a healthy population, the minute they start moving into to populated areas, the more likely there will be some tragedy. We may be in the bear's habitat by living in the bush, but there is plenty of bush and bears as a rule do NOT want human contact so when they start moving into towns and built up areas, you know they are running out of habitat because of their numbers.

I love bears, think they are one of nature's smartest and most beautiful animals but I value human life and I don't want to see someone mauled by a bear in a situation that the bear is out of his/her element.

Mark in Oshawa

21st March 2009, 20:42

Eki

21st March 2009, 22:24

one or two people a year have been killed by Bears in Ontario and Quebec the almost every year.
I'd worry more about traffic or even pedofiles. I bet they are a bigger risk for children than bears.

I think it's more about fear than a real danger. Today there were news that two hikers in a national park in southern Finland were fetched by a border guard helicopter because they had spotted a mother bear and her three cubs. The news said that the mother bear was not acting menacing and may not even had noticed the hikers, but that the hikers were scared.

Easy Drifter

21st March 2009, 23:00

You are right to a point Eki.
But bears are becoming more of a menace and are losing their natural fear of humans. A mother bear if she sees a human between her and her cubs will attack. Dogs will also set them off.
I live here and Mark has lived in this area and his mother in law is in 'bear' country.
I think we know and understand the danger. I have spent a good part of my life in the country and I know how to travel in the woods. I understand wild life pretty well and bears are becoming more and more a danger.
For over 20 years, when younger I hunted in this general area and never saw a bear or bear scat or marked trees. I have seen several bears in the last few years and not out in the woods either.
I do not advocate massive killing of the beautiful animals but a controlled spring hunt is again required.
We currently have a Minister Of Natural Resources Minister who lives in Toronto and has all her life. She has neither fished nor hunted and knows nothing about forestry or mining. A great political choice for the portfolio that encompasses all those areas.
Yes Mark the fisherman was from the GTA.

ioan

23rd March 2009, 11:44

ioan

23rd March 2009, 11:47

I read some good news yesterday. They said the otter population in Finland is recovering.

http://www.aura.fi/kirjasto/nayttelyt/kotamaki/saukko.jpg

Great news! :up:

Mark in Oshawa

24th March 2009, 00:32

I'd worry more about traffic or even pedofiles. I bet they are a bigger risk for children than bears.

I think it's more about fear than a real danger. Today there were news that two hikers in a national park in southern Finland were fetched by a border guard helicopter because they had spotted a mother bear and her three cubs. The news said that the mother bear was not acting menacing and may not even had noticed the hikers, but that the hikers were scared.

Eki....in Canada the hikers usually wouldn't be scared but they would be cautious. That said, as a kid I never saw bears and I was up north a lot every summer. Now I see two or three bears crossing the road and I know they have been by my mother-in-law's a lot as they break into the garbage or sniff around BBQ's. There is no lack of open country really, but there are just too many bears.

You can say it is a little overblown on the fear side and you are right in the sense bear attacks haven't been numerous BUT ( and there is a but ) we don't need to lose someone to a bear mauling to understand that some level of reality in the bear population is going to be required. Every year we have one or two incidents, sometimes ending up with death in Ontario. Black Bears have no natural predators and their lack of food will result in more bear/human contact and it ends up badly for all involved.

A controlled spring hunt with strict rules worked for years and the bear population wouldn't be expanding the way it has. I can tell you that if we had no deer hunt the car/deer collisions would sky rocket. Controlled hunting as it is practiced in Ontario may sound awful, but the animals dying for lack of food or habitat due to overpopulation is no more humane a solution.

As for Endangered animals, That is a completely different conversation. Glad to see Otters coming back to Finland Eki, that pic of that little guy sums up their feisty nature. Beautiful little guys....