Renault suffering Aero problems ? [Archive]

trumperZ06

28th January 2009, 15:29

:dozey: Rumor is that Renault's slow times @ Portimao in testing were caused by low speed handling due to aerodynamics.

Alonso was easily the slowest of the four new cars tested in Portugal last week, and he was said to have complained bitterly about the low speed handling with the new Renault R29.

gloomyDAY

28th January 2009, 16:56

Could have been rain related. The conditions on the track weren't exactly stellar.

Besides, Alonso bitches about everything.

donKey jote

28th January 2009, 17:18

I guess that's what happens when you pretty much lay off the CFD department.
According to MSA they were using fluorescent dyes @Portimao to check airflow patterns... not a good sign :s

rob01

28th January 2009, 17:31

nah its none of that.
its the paint job! its crap, how do they expect to do well with livery like that!
its true, remember Honda's 'earth car'?

jens

28th January 2009, 20:52

Hm, still early days to make some serious conclusions. After the first tests in January 2008 some thought BMW had cocked it up, but they managed a 'comeback'. If Renault is struggling throughout February, then the case would be more serious.

But if Renault is really in trouble, then... good news for Toyota and Williams! ;) :p : They plus Red Bull as "potential surprise packages" behind the Big Four (McL/BMW/Fer/Ren) are really ready to capitalize, should some of the "top contenders" hit trouble.

Andrewmcm

28th January 2009, 21:54

I guess that's what happens when you pretty much lay off the CFD department.
According to MSA they were using fluorescent dyes @Portimao to check airflow patterns... not a good sign :s

It's more like that's what happens when you put too much faith in CFD.... (says the person who does that for a living!)

gloomyDAY

29th January 2009, 16:19

I guess it's not a rumor if Renault admitting to a mediocre test.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73051

shazbot

29th January 2009, 16:50

It's more like that's what happens when you put too much faith in CFD.... (says the person who does that for a living!)

Yup, have to agree. Don't know what their model program is like but you can't beat tunnel testing for speed and accuracy in my professional opinion. The use of 'flow vis' (ualisation) liquid is common. It's a quick, easy way to give you an idea of any potential issues.

Crank

29th January 2009, 19:10

I would not be surprised if the issues with the Renault have something to do with the whole diffuser issue, since this part is key in low-speed corners, I bet they change it before the start of the season.

Andrewmcm

29th January 2009, 21:50

I was talking to a mate who works for a F1 team today. He mentioned that there is a trade-off between wind tunnel testing time and the use of CFD for each team. In other words, the more CFD computing resourse a team uses, the less time they have to test in a wind tunnel. Given that Renault are running straight-line tests, as per http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21145.html - obtaining data that their wind-tunnel should be telling them anyway - I wonder if Renault did put too much faith on CFD, only to realise that it's not quite what they expected.

I was also told that Renault have laid off a fair few CFD bods, presumably to downscale the computational effort and focus more on wind tunnel testing. Hard to know for sure mind you.

wedge

29th January 2009, 22:43

Will be interesting how they'll improve the car over the year with the ban on testing and slick tyres. Fridays will be challenging more than ever.

leopard

30th January 2009, 04:25

Probably they have the same tendency as last year, being slow during test but at the end Alonso managed point in the mid of top three manufacturers. This year should be better than last year.

Tazio

1st February 2009, 07:23

PS sounds confident!
Perhaps this is the advent of a new catch-phrase
Pat-speak :p :
Overall an interesting read!

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/31012009/23/symonds-alonso-quickest-guy-f1.html

Tazio

1st February 2009, 12:33

PS sounds confident!
Perhaps this is the advent of a new catch-phrase
Pat-speak :p :
Overall an interesting read!

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/31012009/23/symonds-alonso-quickest-guy-f1.htmlSponge-Bob Chimes in! :p :

"Recently retired David Coulthard believes that Renault man Fernando Alonso was the best driver in 2008.

Alonso finished fifth in the final drivers standings, 37 points behind winner Lewis Hamilton, but Coulthard is of the opinion that Alonso was the most impressive driver on show."

"As I said in other interviews, for me, Fernando was the best driver in 2008 even though the car was not up to the task," the Scot told AS.

"He continued working and eventually achieved two wins at the end of the season."

http://www.sportinglife.com/formula1/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=formula1/09/02/01/manual_114815.html

Fred!! :dozey: :)

callum122

1st February 2009, 16:51

Tazio

1st February 2009, 17:06

I know a cars aero performance can't be summed up from looking at one part, but doesn't the front nose cone seem to be one of those 'radical' ideas that pops up in F1 from time to time. Like the 2004 Williams 'Walrus' front nose, it was scraped early on. I make the prediction a few races into the season Renault will revert back to a more conventional shaped front nose.Welcome 'lum ;)
:dozey: You ever heard of a sig bet. I want to take on your proposition,
thus laying claim to the first sig bet of the 2009 season :)
What say ye? :crazy:
Cheers my man. :up:
Define a "few" races

callum122

1st February 2009, 17:20

Well did my research on Williams and their 'Walrus' nose, took them until Belgium (14 races in) to revert back.
Ye bet is on.
How specific do you want me to be?

Tazio

1st February 2009, 17:27

By the first European race. Race five. You need a sig for starters. Lets not make it something crude. We will firm up the duration of the penalty before the first race.
One condition however.
Renault have to at least use that nose in the first race, or all bets off! :)
What say Ye?

callum122

1st February 2009, 17:29

Ok now I must admit, what is a sig bet? Thought it was a friednly bet but seems to be an evolution of it.

Tazio

1st February 2009, 17:52

Ok now I must admit, what is a sig bet? Thought it was a friednly bet but seems to be an evolution of it.
Ferrari 2008 F-1 World Champions
is my signature for the time being!
Their is a section in your user CP that lets you enter a phrase that apears on all of your posts, below it's text! Simple! It's all in good fun. I generally believe that the duration of two races is a good number to have to use the winners sig!
BTW I think this is a very interesting proposition!

callum122

1st February 2009, 18:03

Tazio

1st February 2009, 18:54

Ah great! I'll say that if Renault do start the season with the ugly nose, it will be replaced in time for the Bahrain GP.
Now to talk sigs.....If I win, how about you do "Come join me at the Yuji Ide fan club"
Not a problem That's too easy. You don't really have to declare the sig.
For instance if Renault are miraculously still fighting at the pointy
end of the field that far into the season I may ask you to use;
"Renault, France, and Fred, the True Master Race" :p :

leopard

2nd February 2009, 04:10

There are speculations about Alonso's future to secure a seat at Ferrari, although Ferrari insists that their current drivers are the best pair and has no intention to replace one of them with Alonso in near future, whist also solicitude is hanging that if it happens it would mean that makes F1 less attractive.

I prefer the second opinion to let Fernando on the Renault, public have noticed him already a great driver, let him develop and see how the Renault-Nissan progress measures...

callum122

2nd February 2009, 05:05

I've read about the Fernando joining Ferrari story. Surely Flavio wouldn't let Alonso change teams again. And Flav has the extra point of telling Alonso he wouldn't want another McLaren switch all over again. Also what price would Alonso attract?

trumperZ06

2nd February 2009, 16:08

:dozey: After Alsonso's escapade with McLaren...
from a manager's viewpoint,
I would classify him as "Damaged Goods".

;) I' m just not sure Ferrari wants to accept the potiential problems !!!

callum122

2nd February 2009, 16:20

Tazio

2nd February 2009, 20:01

Here is a pic of the Renault, good shot of that ugly front nose.

http://www.itv-f1.com/photo.aspx?IM_ID=52126&PG_ID=22

It looks like Renault has entered sponsorship with Boeing and given them design emphasis on the front nose.Bash them while you can!
:confused: Renault still has the single most valuable commodity in F1 :dozey:

callum122

3rd February 2009, 02:14

Is it becoming too obvious I don't like the Renault front nose. I can feel this coming back to bite me.

Sorry to ask another question, is the front wing BMW are using for testing an interim model or will it be raced?

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/photolarge.php?photoID=117734&catID=4035

rjtart

3rd February 2009, 05:53

It could be worse.

callum122

3rd February 2009, 06:19

Haha, thats radical design for sure.

leopard

3rd February 2009, 06:46

Pick a Chinese or any Asian chick's nose, It will not be that horrible...

Tazio

3rd February 2009, 19:03

:dozey: After Alsonso's escapade with McLaren...
from a manager's viewpoint,
I would classify him as "Damaged Goods".

;) I' m just not sure Ferrari wants to accept the potiential problems !!!On the same note, many classify him as a guy who learned a tough,
yet valuable lesson! :)
Peace my Man ;)

trumperZ06

3rd February 2009, 21:07

On the same note, many classify him as a guy who learned a tough,
yet valuable lesson! :)
Peace my Man ;)

:rolleyes: Threatening to "Blackmail" your employer...

:dozey: Doesn't look good on anyone's resume !!!

donKey jote

3rd February 2009, 21:22

Pick a Chinese or any Asian chick's nose, It will not be that horrible...

I pick my own nose, I like to know where it comes from...

Tazio

3rd February 2009, 22:04

:rolleyes: Threatening to "Blackmail" your employer...

:dozey: Doesn't look good on anyone's resume !!!
Has he repeated this behavior since then :confused:
No!
Thus my point!
Peace my man :)

We need a sig bet in the offing
But how.
Brilliant!! I'll bet my sig that Fred goes to Ferrari, and
wins a WDC (Unless he wins one with Le Blues) by 2011
It will be in the Guiness book of world record for ther longest running sig. bet
in internet history! :p :

Tazio

3rd February 2009, 22:17

I pick my own nose, I like to know where it comes from...Just take care not to soil yourself :laugh:

leopard

4th February 2009, 06:28

How did he blackmail someone, I am afraid of people put the fault on him without trying to know history behind it just like to put the endless middle east crisis for the fault of hamas ...

Tazio

4th February 2009, 07:55

How did he blackmail someone, I am afraid of people put the fault on him without trying to know history behind it just like to put the endless middle east crisis for the fault of hamas ...
Quite right my man. It could be argued that Fred was simply suggesting to Ron
that he pay a little closer attention to the less than sporting machinations going on in the team,
and lose the obsession with the Ham..........
I can't say it. I refuse to use derogetory terms to a current world champ.
But I think you catch my drift(ing)
NFS Underground so cool :)
peace brothers :up:

Knock-on

4th February 2009, 10:01

How did he blackmail someone, I am afraid of people put the fault on him without trying to know history behind it just like to put the endless middle east crisis for the fault of hamas ...

I have been pretty consistant on here about my admiration for Fred and that I believe he is just about the most complete package in F1.

McLaren with Lewis and Hamilton would be the dream team but there were two big ego's working against each other in a destructive rather than positive manner.

I have no doubt that Fernando expected to dominate the team and Lewis. The big surprise was that he underestimated the rookie and then tried to reverse engineer a #1 status within the team.

It wasn't a very nice thing to do or even very elegant but thats not his job. He tried to pull a stroke and Ron called the bluff. It's not really anything more than that.

As for what a silly driver battle has to do with the disgrace od the Middle East crisis, I am honestly astonished :confused:

wedge

4th February 2009, 13:13

:rolleyes: Threatening to "Blackmail" your employer...

:dozey: Doesn't look good on anyone's resume !!!

Nor does deliberately taking out an opponent or your team mate.

leopard

5th February 2009, 03:13

Quite right my man. It could be argued that Fred was simply suggesting to Ron
that he pay a little closer attention to the less than sporting machinations going on in the team,
and lose the obsession with the Ham..........
I can't say it. I refuse to use derogetory terms to a current world champ.
But I think you catch my drift(ing)
NFS Underground so cool :)
peace brothers :up:

It's just difficult to solve problem where it involves power above him (alonso), better sleeping

peace, peace brother :)

Tazio

3rd March 2009, 23:46

Ah great! I'll say that if Renault do start the season with the ugly nose, it will be replaced in time for the Bahrain GP.
Now to talk sigs.....If I win, how about you do "Come join me at the Yuji Ide fan club"'um122 I havn't heard a peep out of you in some time!
I fell very good about this sig bet, so you better not take a powder! :p :