History of Petter Solberg`s Xsara WRC...

[Xsara Fan]

I have an info that Petter bought Citroen Xsara WRC with chassis number T412.
This car was built in 26.03.2001.
First numberplates '32 CSP 92'
In 2001 reregistered as '723 CZM 78'.
In 2004 was in Citroen museum 'Le Conservatoire'.
In 2005 used by Kronos Racing with numberplates '322 DFQ 78'.
In 2007 used by Kronos Racing with numberplates '98 DZF 78'.
In 2008 used by Conrad Rautenbach in Swedish rally with numberplates '875 EHW 78'.
After that in 2008 was used by Felice Re in Italy (got the title) with numberplates '14R 0101'.
Also Kris Meeke start with this car in Bettega Memorial.
In 2009 used by Conrad Rautenbach in Galway rally with numberplates '138 EQY 78'.

This car take first ever WRC win for Citroen with Jesus Puras (2001 Rally Tour de Corse).
This car has 4 wins at all (Puras/Corse 2001, Loeb/MC 2003, Loeb/Sanremo 2003, Loeb/Cyprus 2004).

[Iskald]

Quite some "old-timer" of a car, then. But do you know what is the current specification of the car?

[Xsara Fan]

Quite some "old-timer" of a car, then. But do you know what is the current specification of the car?

For the moment - I don`t know. Sorry.

[Sturla]

Are you sure that it`s the T412 that Petter bought? I know he tested the T412 last weekend in Sweden, but not so sure that`s the car he bought. He confirms on his own webpage that it`s a 2006 model Xsara he will drive in Norway.

[Xsara Fan]

Are you sure that it`s the T412 that Petter bought? I know he tested the T412 last weekend in Sweden, but not so sure that`s the car he bought. He confirms on his own webpage that it`s a 2006 model Xsara he will drive in Norway.

The last Citroen Xsara WRC was built in 27.02.2004 (T432). After that there was only new specification of the old chassis. After 2004 Citroen Sport has built only Citroen C4 WRC`s...

[Sturla]

Thanks alot for the info :) Petter probably meant 2006 spec then?

[Xsara Fan]

Thanks alot for the info :) Petter probably meant 2006 spec then?

Yes, of course :)

[noel157]

I can see the headline - "Petter buys car from museum to enter WRC"...
Let's hope it will be 06 spec. He will do well in it.

Thanks for the info XF.

[padWRC]

I have an info that Petter bought Citroen Xsara WRC with chassis number T412.
This car was built in 26.03.2001.
First numberplates '32 CSP 92'
In 2001 reregistered as '723 CZM 78'.
In 2004 was in Citroen museum 'Le Conservatoire'.
In 2005 used by Kronos Racing with numberplates '322 DFQ 78'.
In 2007 used by Kronos Racing with numberplates '98 DZF 78'.
In 2008 used by Conrad Rautenbach in Swedish rally with numberplates '875 EHW 78'.
After that in 2008 was used by Felice Re in Italy (got the title) with numberplates '14R 0101'.
Also Kris Meeke start with this car in Bettega Memorial.
In 2009 used by Conrad Rautenbach in Galway rally with numberplates '138 EQY 78'.

This car take first ever WRC win for Citroen with Jesus Puras (2001 Rally Tour de Corse).
This car has 4 wins at all (Puras/Corse 2001, Loeb/MC 2003, Loeb/Sanremo 2003, Loeb/Cyprus 2004).
But Felice Re in Italy got the car T425 with numberplates '14R 0101'....
Source:
http://www.lorenzinorally.com/targhewrc_italia/xsara_14r0101.htm

[J4MIE]

Winning car, winning driver..... Unbeatable combination ;)

[Bazza2541]

Winning car, winning driver..... Unbeatable combination ;)


Unbeatable eh?
We'll see.

[Brother John]

Winning car, winning driver..... Unbeatable combination ;)

http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/scared/scared0016.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/freesmiley.php?smiley=scared/scared0016.gif) http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/scared/scared0012.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/freesmiley.php?smiley=scared/scared0012.gif)http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/animated/anim_63.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/freesmiley.php?smiley=animated/anim_63.gif)

[Xsara Fan]

But Felice Re in Italy got the car T425 with numberplates '14R 0101'....
Source:
http://www.lorenzinorally.com/targhewrc_italia/xsara_14r0101.htm

I`m currently talk with Lorenzino. It`s strange situation - it looks that Re has 2 cars during 2008.

[DIMI44]

Winning car, winning driver..... Unbeatable combination ;)

But not for Stohl in 2005.
Monte: 6th
New Zealand: 9th
Acropolis: 20th
Argentina: 8th
Finland: RTR.

[Gard]

Funny thing, that the subie he already has. The car he won the championship with in 2003, is newer than the xsara he has bought now.

[urabus-denoS2000]

Citroen as said has politics different than M-Sport and Prodrive who are not works companies and they live of selling and repairing cars.

Citroen Sport constantly improves their cars and they dont give a sh*t about selling cars....
Loeb won his 2006 with an 04 chassis which is hard to believe....
But there were very few (almost no) 04 parts on that car.....


Same as Solberg,there are no 01 parts on it,dont worry.

Its an 06 car :D

[Daniel]

Quite some "old-timer" of a car, then. But do you know what is the current specification of the car?

But like Xsara WRC said in another thread Citroen don't sell old cars off that often but improve them :)

[urabus-denoS2000]

But like Xsara WRC said in another thread Citroen don't sell old cars off that often but improve them :)

Exactly :D

[Sulland]

As we have said before; It all depends on the package Petter got hold of from PSA Sport.

Hopefully he got a good deal, and good spec - good PR for them if he is able to beat a couple of Focuses, and especially an orange one.....

[Helstar]

He won't go anywhere. Simple as that. Will have lots of problems (brakes, engine power, etc.) and could even be much more behind Adapta Subaru...

You can look to 07 Kronos Xsaras and the Galli's PhSport one too. They were a lot behind to C4 and Focus already then ! And both cars have been improved in these 2 years a lot ^^

Only Duval took a good ride in Germany, but I think Citroen gave him a competitive package to steal Ford points...

[swordsman]

He won't go anywhere. Simple as that. Will have lots of problems (brakes, engine power, etc.) and could even be much more behind Adapta Subaru...

You can look to 07 Kronos Xsaras and the Galli's PhSport one too. They were a lot behind to C4 and Focus already then ! And both cars have been improved in these 2 years a lot ^^

Only Duval took a good ride in Germany, but I think Citroen gave him a competitive package to steal Ford points...

True story man :)

[ProRally]

He won't go anywhere. Simple as that. Will have lots of problems (brakes, engine power, etc.) and could even be much more behind Adapta Subaru...

You can look to 07 Kronos Xsaras and the Galli's PhSport one too. They were a lot behind to C4 and Focus already then ! And both cars have been improved in these 2 years a lot ^^

Only Duval took a good ride in Germany, but I think Citroen gave him a competitive package to steal Ford points...

You get what you pay for... 2001 car oh my god....

That happens if you don't want to spend money, this sport is so money driven (unfortunatly, but it is the truth)

[Sarac330d]

Manfred Stohl was driving Xsara WRC in 2007, in his contract with Kronos was written that he will receive same spec as Loeb in 2006. But he was constantly saying that this car was slower than 307WRC that he was driven in 2006. When he came to rally in Germany, Citroen was desperate to took points from Ford so they send one engineer to change software in Stohl-s Xsara, after rally he said that he had feeling that his car was much more powerful than earlier.
He always complained that he wanted same spec as Loeb in 2006 and that he didn`t get same spec becouse he asked from some buttons on steering wheel which Loeb had in 2006 and some other things that he seen 1 year earlier in Loebs car, but Kronos give him answer: "That buttons was some Loebs private needs and car is same basic as Loeb".
Question remains: Why car was so stronger after Citroen engineer make adjustment to softwer in that Xsara?
I think Loeb had his own spec of the Car and everybody else had some other thing!

After all: Loeb is Frenchmen in French car and he taking WRC titles, why to risk that some other guy(not French) thake title in that car.

[swordsman]

Manfred Stohl was driving Xsara WRC in 2007, in his contract with Kronos was written that he will receive same spec as Loeb in 2006. But he was constantly saying that this car was slower than 307WRC that he was driven in 2006. When he came to rally in Germany, Citroen was desperate to took points from Ford so they send one engineer to change software in Stohl-s Xsara, after rally he said that he had feeling that his car was much more powerful than earlier.
He always complained that he wanted same spec as Loeb in 2006 and that he didn`t get same spec becouse he asked from some buttons on steering wheel which Loeb had in 2006 and some other things that he seen 1 year earlier in Loebs car, but Kronos give him answer: "That buttons was some Loebs private needs and car is same basic as Loeb".
Question remains: Why car was so stronger after Citroen engineer make adjustment to softwer in that Xsara?
I think Loeb had his own spec of the Car and everybody else had some other thing!

After all: Loeb is Frenchmen in French car and he taking WRC titles, why to risk that some other guy(not French) thake title in that car.

Well, I don't know exact your details, but I do know that even Carlsson was promised exactly same spec as Loeb 06 Xsara but it was totally obvious to anyone seeing the car parts (even me as a tech noob) that it wasn't.

[Sarac330d]

Time when there was possible for non-factory driver(privater driver) to win round of WRC passed already 7-8 years ago.
In these days if you want wins you must be Ford or Citroen factory driver, everyone else can be between 5-10 place!

[Gard]

Not too optimistic about the Xsara in this article
http://news.caradisiac.com/Solberg-stupefiant-et-seduisant-Muller-presse-et-distant-196

[cut the b.s.]

You get what you pay for... 2001 car oh my god....

That happens if you don't want to spend money, this sport is so money driven (unfortunatly, but it is the truth)

Read the thread, lots of info for you in here, 01 doesnt exactly mean 01

[Halvis]

Not too optimistic about the Xsara in this article
http://news.caradisiac.com/Solberg-stupefiant-et-seduisant-Muller-presse-et-distant-196

What does it say in English, short version? I don't speak french, but it looks to me that it mainly is about his test for LeMans? Something about 1 sec slower than Olivier Panis? Anyone?

[noel157]

What does it say in English, short version? I don't speak french, but it looks to me that it mainly is about his test for LeMans? Something about 1 sec slower than Olivier Panis? Anyone?

All about his Le Mans test, nothing to do with WRC. He's looking forward to challenging Loeb on the circuits:

"Petter Solberg rolls again today to refine its knowledge of the car and the circuit but also to strengthen the muscles of a neck inevitably painful to 17h last night. Asked about his future, he said he was open to all and let go even to imagine a new kind of confrontation with Sébastien Loeb, far from the Welsh forests and Scandinavian and bitumen glossy or dusty Ireland or Spain, tar clinically own circuit of the Le Mans 24 hours for example ..."

Not sure Ireland has ever been dusty........

[urabus-denoS2000]

I think he got the best possible Xsara ;)

It is good for Citroen for Petter to beat some the non-works Focuses,and I am sure they took the most of it

They gave him a car to beat some Stobart Focuses and not touching Loeb...

And realistically,do you really think that even with a C4 he could beat Loeb.....

Citroen isnt threathened by that

[DonJippo]

And realistically,do you really think that even with a C4 he could beat Loeb.....

On snow yes if given equal cars.

[urabus-denoS2000]

Maybe in Norway but not anywhere else

[Tomi]

Time when there was possible for non-factory driver(privater driver) to win round of WRC passed already 7-8 years ago.
In these days if you want wins you must be Ford or Citroen factory driver, everyone else can be between 5-10 place!

i disagree, today its much easier for a privateer to win, because of less works teams, now you need only 4 retirements.

[Daniel]

i disagree, today its much easier for a privateer to win, because of less works teams, now you need only 4 retirements.
I have to agree. When was the last time a "privateer" threatened to win a rally? I seem to remember Panizzi going for the Monte win in 1999 with an Impreza but that's the last time I remember a proper privateer pushing for the win.

[J.Lindstroem]

Maybe in Norway but not anywhere else

Why specially in Norway?

[Sulland]

Has anyone else had Reiger suspension on the Xsara ?



__________________

In Norway because of wide tyres and little traction, so top effect does not mean the same as on tarmac.

[Finni]

Time when there was possible for non-factory driver(privater driver) to win round of WRC passed already 7-8 years ago.
In these days if you want wins you must be Ford or Citroen factory driver, everyone else can be between 5-10 place!

Full crap. Not so sure about Citroen but Ford has given top-notch material to privateers. Duval beated Hirvonen in Germany and even Henning Solberg was near to beat Hirvonen in Sweden 2006. Also Latvala was better in Corcica with Stobart car than he was in germany and Monte with factory one.

Did Stohl made better times then after Germany? I didn't follow him so close that I could say. As to Stohl he was not fast with Citroen even in 2004.

[swordsman]

Full crap. Not so sure about Citroen but Ford has given top-notch material to privateers. Duval beated Hirvonen in Germany and even Henning Solberg was near to beat Hirvonen in Sweden 2006. Also Latvala was better in Corcica with Stobart car than he was in germany and Monte with factory one.

Did Stohl made better times then after Germany? I didn't follow him so close that I could say. As to Stohl he was not fast with Citroen even in 2004.

Stohl didn't go with Citroen in 04, did he? 2005 he was in the Xsara and I think he got good placings in some events... 2nd in Cyprus, wasn't he? However, things changed later and in 07 he said he didn't have nothing close to the chance he had in 05.

[Gard]

Full crap. Not so sure about Citroen but Ford has given top-notch material to privateers. Duval beated Hirvonen in Germany and even Henning Solberg was near to beat Hirvonen in Sweden 2006. Also Latvala was better in Corcica with Stobart car than he was in germany and Monte with factory one.

Did Stohl made better times then after Germany? I didn't follow him so close that I could say. As to Stohl he was not fast with Citroen even in 2004.

I think you need to wake up Finni. The privateers will only be allowed to win if it suits the team managers. Maybe early in the season. So Henning might get a chance in Norway. Latvala was a works driver for champ points

[JFL]

Is it allowed for Petter to take the Xsara to a dyno and see if its good? And if not get a remap of it? Or is every electronics sealed?

[Gard]

Is it allowed for Petter to take the Xsara to a dyno and see if its good? And if not get a remap of it? Or is every electronics sealed?

That's the question. If the team get all the resources, they can do this themselves. even get programs and aquisition data from earlier. Normally this is only done by Manu technicians. If Petters team get this kind of support, the Xsara could be somewhat competitive. But that hasn't happened since Kronos and we all know who run that team.

Dyno will not tell you much, unless you have something to compare against.

They got to test the Bozian whales for Henning/Manfred and they almost hit 900Nm.

[dimviii]

900Nm :eek:

are you sure Gard?any link?

[Finni]

I think you need to wake up Finni. The privateers will only be allowed to win if it suits the team managers. Maybe early in the season. So Henning might get a chance in Norway. Latvala was a works driver for champ points

Henning's main problem is lack of speed. We should start to worry about decisions of team-managers when our driver is faster than manager's driver. To the best of my knowlegde Duval was driving for manu points in Catalunya and Corcica.

[User]

900Nm :eek:

are you sure Gard?any link?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyj88OZABgY

Could be :p

[MJW]

One thing about this Xsara for Petter - It is not being run by Kronos, the team (PSRT) is based in France and is headed by Francois Xavier Demaison. Now FX is fimly a product of the Peugeot Citroen motorsport family, and a superb rally engineer. I dont know who forms the rest of the team, only that Petter says he has about 10 good mechanics, my guess is a lot of these are from the Varmland / Norwegian border area, with loads of wrc experience, some ex SWRT personnel too.Also everything I read about this Xsara for PSRT seems to point to it not being the long term plan. (not necessarily sticking with this car all year)
It has been reported that they want to do as many wrc rallies as possible, and early consideration for Cyprus is underway.

[Sulland]

Henning's main problem is lack of speed. We should start to worry about decisions of team-managers when our driver is faster than manager's driver. To the best of my knowlegde Duval was driving for manu points in Catalunya and Corcica.

Henning has the speed, but not from the start. It takes a while, and then he has lost too much to the top. He need to trust himself and the car from meter 1 on ss1 !

Hopefully he will continue to train asphalt using go-karts, and also a rallycar on a racetrack, maybe also some coaching from asphalt specialists !!

[noel157]

One thing about this Xsara for Petter - It is not being run by Kronos, the team (PSRT) is based in France and is headed by Francois Xavier Demaison. Now FX is fimly a product of the Peugeot Citroen motorsport family, and a superb rally engineer. I dont know who forms the rest of the team, only that Petter says he has about 10 good mechanics, my guess is a lot of these are from the Varmland / Norwegian border area, with loads of wrc experience, some ex SWRT personnel too.Also everything I read about this Xsara for PSRT seems to point to it not being the long term plan. (not necessarily sticking with this car all year)
It has been reported that they want to do as many wrc rallies as possible, and early consideration for Cyprus is underway.

I agree. C4 soon?

[Finni]

Henning has the speed, but not from the start. It takes a while, and then he has lost too much to the top. He need to trust himself and the car from meter 1 on ss1 !

Hopefully he will continue to train asphalt using go-karts, and also a rallycar on a racetrack, maybe also some coaching from asphalt specialists !!

Henning is lost case on asphalt. :) On gravel he is ok but there is no reason to believe he is top-noth. Never been and never will be. He started far away and has filled his potential by being on podium in some races.

On tarmac he is such potatoe... sorry to use N.O.T's terminology.. I once won Kristian Sohlberg by 0.7 sec in the same karting track (altough our team probably had better fortune with the car) that consisted three curves.. some rally drivrs just has not got it on tarmac (altough I am sure that Petter, Seb or Marcus wouldn't loose 0.7 to me in any circumstances :) )

[Halvis]

Henning is lost case on asphalt. :) On gravel he is ok but there is no reason to believe he is top-noth. Never been and never will be. He started far away and has filled his potential by being on podium in some races.

On tarmac he is such potatoe... sorry to use N.O.T's terminology.. I once won Kristian Sohlberg by 0.7 sec in the same karting track (altough our team probably had better fortune with the car) that consisted three curves.. some rally drivrs just has not got it on tarmac (altough I am sure that Petter, Seb or Marcus wouldn't loose 0.7 to me in any circumstances :) )

I'm afraid you're right, on tarmac he is a lost case...

[OldF]

I have an info that Petter bought Citroen Xsara WRC with chassis number T412.


From where do you get the information?

[Xsara Fan]

From where do you get the information?

Citroen Sport sources.

[OldF]

Manfred Stohl was driving Xsara WRC in 2007, in his contract with Kronos was written that he will receive same spec as Loeb in 2006. But he was constantly saying that this car was slower than 307WRC that he was driven in 2006. When he came to rally in Germany, Citroen was desperate to took points from Ford so they send one engineer to change software in Stohl-s Xsara, after rally he said that he had feeling that his car was much more powerful than earlier.


I’m quite sure that the cars sold to M2 teams and privateers are not in the same specs as the M1 cars.

This was confirmed in last year NORF when Marcus was a guest in the studio during the live broadcast from the last stage (Ruuhimäki). When Hennig droved true the last jumps, the commentator asked Marcus if he could see any difference between Hennings cars and the cars he had been using. Marcus answer was “The suspension is the same but the M1 cars engine is a little bit more powerful”.

Some time ago there was a TV program of Marcus “Grönholm from Finland” in Finnish TV. There a journalist, who was making a story of Marcus test with the Corolla WRC, told that when Carlos Sainz had finished the test, Marcus drove the same cars and was 1 sec faster than Carlos on the same stage after the firs run. Marcus said that this feels much powerful compared to his own car. Then came an engineer with a computer and did some “adjustments”. After the second run Marcus said “Now this feel more like my own car”.

They had forgot to change the specs after Carlos test. The journalist also told that Carlos had a point in he’s contract that his car should be in better specs compared to other’s cars.

[Xsara Fan]

I’m quite sure that the cars sold to M2 teams and privateers are not in the same specs as the M1 cars.


Yes, of course. As I know Citroen Junior Team has C4 WRC`s in specification "Loeb / MC 2008" and test-car in 2007 specification...

[JFL]

Henning is lost case on asphalt. :) On gravel he is ok but there is no reason to believe he is top-noth. Never been and never will be. He started far away and has filled his potential by being on podium in some races.

On tarmac he is such potatoe... sorry to use N.O.T's terminology.. I once won Kristian Sohlberg by 0.7 sec in the same karting track (altough our team probably had better fortune with the car) that consisted three curves.. some rally drivrs just has not got it on tarmac (altough I am sure that Petter, Seb or Marcus wouldn't loose 0.7 to me in any circumstances :) )

I think "the lost case" is doing quite well, despite no testing on tarmac this year.. :s mokin: Quote Henning:"I'm only driving safely to get some points" The safe driving is at this point the 4th quickest in the WRC!

[OldF]

Yes, of course. As I know Citroen Junior Team has C4 WRC`s in specification "Loeb / MC 2008" and test-car in 2007 specification...

I meant with “specs” that the M2 / privateer cars don’t have as much hp as M1 cars, i.e. "Loeb / MC 2008" car had more hp than the Citroen Junior Team cars.

[Finni]

I meant with “specs” that the M2 / privateer cars don’t have as much hp as M1 cars, i.e. "Loeb / MC 2008" car had more hp than the Citroen Junior Team cars.

Source?

[OldF]

Source?

The source is only my doubt.

Did you read my earlier post at 15:03 and MJW’s at 00:23? I don’t think that a M1 would take the risk that their own M2 team would beat them.

[Xsara Fan]

I meant with “specs” that the M2 / privateer cars don’t have as much hp as M1 cars, i.e. "Loeb / MC 2008" car had more hp than the Citroen Junior Team cars.

Man! What you say? Max Mosley could read it! WRCars has only 300 hp ;) )))

[OldF]

Man! What you say? Max Mosley could read it! WRCars has only 300 hp ;) )))

Haven’t you heard about the horsepower inflation? Here is the story.

The 34 mm restrictor has been in use from the beginning of 1995. Of course FIA had a concern that the HP will increase by the time and therefore asked the technical department to give an estimate on how much. The technical department returned their calculation with an estimate of about 1,5% per year. Then FIA made their own calculations on how would it look like in the beginning of 2009. If the cars had 300 hp with a 34 mm restrictor in the beginning of 1995, with a 1,5% decrease every year we would end up with a figure of 370 hp at the beginning of 2009. FIA decided that something has to be done about it but instead of returning the calculations to the technical department, they accidentally were sent to the accounting department. The accounting department made their calculations and returned a report in which they said, “No problem, the inflation will take care of it”.

So, The WRC cars still have 300 hp. :)

[crazy]

It's fair to say that all modern world rally cars have more than 300hp.

[Finni]

It's fair to say that all modern world rally cars have more than 300hp.

Really? :)

[crazy]

Some people still believe that there's a 300hp "rule". Nothings wrong with repeating the facts. :)

[Finni]

Some people still believe that there's a 300hp "rule". Nothings wrong with repeating the facts. :)

It's like saying that Elvis don't live anymore :)

Tough interesting that we have not heard exact numbers of hp's. There was debate few years ago and no consensus didn't exist.

[urabus-denoS2000]

http://www.rallysport.hu/info/2009/02/02-02-Solberg_Xsara.htm

Heres the history

[Xsara Fan]

http://www.rallysport.hu/info/2009/02/02-02-Solberg_Xsara.htm

Heres the history

...made from my first post ;)

[Gard]

It's like saying that Elvis don't live anymore :)

Tough interesting that we have not heard exact numbers of hp's. There was debate few years ago and no consensus didn't exist.

It's no such thing as a exact number of HP. HP changes all the time dep on temp, altitude and the mapping they select for the stage. with the restrictor, hp is not very relevant for wrc. Torque is the best value to indicate how potent a engine is. Unless you have long stages on top speed.

Very simplified you can say that torque is acceleration and hp is top speed. Basically that means that at the normal speed of wrc, torque is the most important. If I remember right hp = (torque * rpm)/f. f is 5252 using lb/ft, and 7113 using Nm.

To understand how it interacts, you can have the same torque at twice the rpm, and you have doubled the hp

[Mirek]

Gard: You can't say that one is less important than the other even in WRC because both of them are different ways to say the same. You don't need power curve if You know torque curve and vice versa.

When You get naturaly aspirated engine You have for example peak power at 6500 rpm and peak torque at 3500. The best acceleration You get when You shift at rpm limiter in this case and uses the biggest power and the shortest possible gears. You have to use the biggest possible power area under power curve. That car which has bigger area under power curve in used rpm ratio is stronger.

What moves car is torque on wheels but that depends on gears. And that's what makes many people wrong. Power is still the same and doesn't change by gears (except mechanical losses). For ilustration 250 Nm at 6000 rpm is basicly the same as 500 Nm at 3000 rpm. For the first one You use twice shorter gears and therefore the torque on wheels is same for both.

People started to say that Hp is for top speed and torque for acceleration because of fact that power depends on rpm - the higher rpm the more power unless the torque is going down more than rpm up (when torque is constant, power rises the same way as rpm, when power is constant, torque goes down the same way as rpm up). In the end it doesn't matter if You have 2000 Nm or 200 Nm when You have the same Hp and the same usable power rpm ratio.

The point which makes WRC different is that its power doesn't rise with rpm all the time as in N/A engine. It has restrictor and huge turboboost which creates huge torque at very low rpm. However it still means the same result, the biggest possible power at the rpm ratio we want to use. Because of restrictor torque of WRC has quite short peak and than goes down stadily which makes power almost constant until some rpm when intake looses etc. are groving too much and torque falls even more and power starts falling as well. The biggest possible power area in any graph is when power is constant. Therefore WRC car may have almost constant power in for example 3500-6000 rpm ratio. That allowes using less gears and more shifting mistakes.

That formula You wrote is made from basic physical laws which are teached in basic school :)

When You multiplied Force by distance s, You get work W = F * s. To get power P from work You have to devide it by time t: P = F * s / t and s/t is velocity v. Therefor the power is P = F * v in linear move. If You get it in circular move it's the same only You change particular values; torque Mt instead of force and angular velocity omega instead of linear velocity. Than the formula looks P = Mt * omega. Angular velocity is omega = 2 * pí * rpm/60. That power is in watts, to have it in Hp You have to devide by tousand to get kilowatt and then multiplied by 1,36 to get Hp. Suma sumarum it gives P (Hp) = Mt (Nm) * 2pí * rpm/60 * 1,36/1000. From that Your simpliffied formula comes :)

[RS]

]The point which makes WRC different is that its power doesn't rise with rpm all the time as in N/A engine. It has restrictor and huge turboboost which creates huge torque at very low rpm. However it still means the same result, the biggest possible power at the rpm ratio we want to use. Because of restrictor torque of WRC has quite short peak and than goes down stadily which makes power almost constant until some rpm when intake looses etc. are groving too much and torque falls even more and power starts falling as well. The biggest possible power area in any graph is when power is constant. Therefore WRC car may have almost constant power in for example 3500-6000 rpm ratio. That allowes using less gears and more shifting mistakes.


Thanks for the lesson :)

I believe it is that which is making the current WRCars boring to watch. The engines are just too good, with almost constant power in any gear at any revs, they can pull themselves straight out of any corner without much sliding, and it is probably this which makes them easier to drive than S2000 too.

[traxx]

FG Racing to run the Petter's car :
http://wrc.is.free.fr/posts/2009/02/04/911-solberg-avec-fg-racing

[Gard]

Some more info. The Xsara will be run with latest and best spec. The engine, diffs and suspension will have 08 spec.
He will also run with active diffs
Trying to get more details

Anyone know about homologation rules? can they run homologated C4 parts directly? Or do they need to homologate them for the xsara.

If what I hear is right, he'll use same engine as Loebs C4

[Mirek]

There is only this in 2008 homologated for Xsara:

01.01.2008 53/43 VO TRANSMISSION / POWER TRAIN

That means no engine homologated after 1.1.2006.

[JFL]

I thought the engines was about the same! Just different engine management system(ECU)??

[Mirek]

Only in 07 model. C4 08 has new engine.

[Halvis]

Some more info. The Xsara will be run with latest and best spec. The engine, diffs and suspension will have 08 spec.
He will also run with active diffs
Trying to get more details

Anyone know about homologation rules? can they run homologated C4 parts directly? Or do they need to homologate them for the xsara.

If what I hear is right, he'll use same engine as Loebs C4

This sounds very, very good, if it's true - I don't know he rules. If he can get a fair amount of testing this weekend, it might get interesting in Rally Norway!

[JFL]

Ok.. If he gets a 07 spec engine, and 08 drivetrain and new suspension in the Xsara I think that would be a very competetive car! Best Xsara ever... Time will show..

[Gard]

]Gard: You can't say that one is less important than the other even in WRC because both of them are different ways to say the same. You don't need power curve if You know torque curve and vice versa.

When You get naturaly aspirated engine You have for example peak power at 6500 rpm and peak torque at 3500. The best acceleration You get when You shift at rpm limiter in this case and uses the biggest power and the shortest possible gears. You have to use the biggest possible power area under power curve. That car which has bigger area under power curve in used rpm ratio is stronger.

What moves car is torque on wheels but that depends on gears. And that's what makes many people wrong. Power is still the same and doesn't change by gears (except mechanical losses). For ilustration 250 Nm at 6000 rpm is basicly the same as 500 Nm at 3000 rpm. For the first one You use twice shorter gears and therefore the torque on wheels is same for both.

People started to say that Hp is for top speed and torque for acceleration because of fact that power depends on rpm - the higher rpm the more power unless the torque is going down more than rpm up (when torque is constant, power rises the same way as rpm, when power is constant, torque goes down the same way as rpm up). In the end it doesn't matter if You have 2000 Nm or 200 Nm when You have the same Hp and the same usable power rpm ratio.

The point which makes WRC different is that its power doesn't rise with rpm all the time as in N/A engine. It has restrictor and huge turboboost which creates huge torque at very low rpm. However it still means the same result, the biggest possible power at the rpm ratio we want to use. Because of restrictor torque of WRC has quite short peak and than goes down stadily which makes power almost constant until some rpm when intake looses etc. are groving too much and torque falls even more and power starts falling as well. The biggest possible power area in any graph is when power is constant. Therefore WRC car may have almost constant power in for example 3500-6000 rpm ratio. That allowes using less gears and more shifting mistakes.

That formula You wrote is made from basic physical laws which are teached in basic school :)

When You multiplied Force by distance s, You get work W = F * s. To get power P from work You have to devide it by time t: P = F * s / t and s/t is velocity v. Therefor the power is P = F * v in linear move. If You get it in circular move it's the same only You change particular values; torque Mt instead of force and angular velocity omega instead of linear velocity. Than the formula looks P = Mt * omega. Angular velocity is omega = 2 * pí * rpm/60. That power is in watts, to have it in Hp You have to devide by tousand to get kilowatt and then multiplied by 1,36 to get Hp. Suma sumarum it gives P (Hp) = Mt (Nm) * 2pí * rpm/60 * 1,36/1000. From that Your simpliffied formula comes :)

Thank you for filling out. The key here is the small restrictor. Wich limit the amount of air that can be used in the engine. Therefore the po... eh.. torque ;) needs to come at lower rpm. Also when Hennings Pug almost hit 900Nm, we can asume that the hp figure is somewhat above 300 :p

[Mirek]

Ok.. If he gets a 07 spec engine, and 08 drivetrain and new suspension in the Xsara I think that would be a very competetive car! Best Xsara ever... Time will show..

Don't know how it's with WRC but for S2000 You have to use homologated ECU with homologated software only.

[Sarac330d]

Are you sure that you have to use only homologated software, maybe only homologated ECU, I think teams are changing software every rally depending on type of road and conditions!

[Ramore]

I have just read that Peter's Xsara is sponsored by MSN for this event.

[Gard]

I have just read that Peter's Xsara is sponsored by MSN for this event.

Correct, he'll also present 2 new sponsors on friday. One of them should be a major one

[Mirek]

Are you sure that you have to use only homologated software, maybe only homologated ECU, I think teams are changing software every rally depending on type of road and conditions!

Yes, I'm sure for S2000.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... A%20(09-10 (http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/E1999939AD85DCBCC125751D0052A020/$FILE/254A%20(09-10))-121208.pdf

Article 5.1.

[Sturla]

http://www.norsk-rally.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5999 :p etter-solberg-sin-citroen-xsara-wrc

Petter`s new car :)

[Halvis]

http://www.norsk-rally.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5999 :p etter-solberg-sin-citroen-xsara-wrc

Petter`s new car :)

Boring livery, no colours - and where is the msn logo?

[Sturla]

I like it, clean and luxury livery...

[JFL]

http://media.aftenposten.no/archive/00960/_bilen_til_Petter_t_960944a.jpg
MSN logo is on the door :) Look at the air intake..:"This is my life"

[Micke_VOC]

Great livery... Clean

[OldF]

]Gard: You can't say that one is less important than the other even in WRC because both of them are different ways to say the same. You don't need power curve if You know torque curve and vice versa.

When You get naturaly aspirated engine You have for example peak power at 6500 rpm and peak torque at 3500. The best acceleration You get when You shift at rpm limiter in this case and uses the biggest power and the shortest possible gears. You have to use the biggest possible power area under power curve. That car which has bigger area under power curve in used rpm ratio is stronger.

What moves car is torque on wheels but that depends on gears. And that's what makes many people wrong. Power is still the same and doesn't change by gears (except mechanical losses). For ilustration 250 Nm at 6000 rpm is basicly the same as 500 Nm at 3000 rpm. For the first one You use twice shorter gears and therefore the torque on wheels is same for both.

People started to say that Hp is for top speed and torque for acceleration because of fact that power depends on rpm - the higher rpm the more power unless the torque is going down more than rpm up (when torque is constant, power rises the same way as rpm, when power is constant, torque goes down the same way as rpm up). In the end it doesn't matter if You have 2000 Nm or 200 Nm when You have the same Hp and the same usable power rpm ratio.

The point which makes WRC different is that its power doesn't rise with rpm all the time as in N/A engine. It has restrictor and huge turboboost which creates huge torque at very low rpm. However it still means the same result, the biggest possible power at the rpm ratio we want to use. Because of restrictor torque of WRC has quite short peak and than goes down stadily which makes power almost constant until some rpm when intake looses etc. are groving too much and torque falls even more and power starts falling as well. The biggest possible power area in any graph is when power is constant. Therefore WRC car may have almost constant power in for example 3500-6000 rpm ratio. That allowes using less gears and more shifting mistakes.

That formula You wrote is made from basic physical laws which are teached in basic school :)

When You multiplied Force by distance s, You get work W = F * s. To get power P from work You have to devide it by time t: P = F * s / t and s/t is velocity v. Therefor the power is P = F * v in linear move. If You get it in circular move it's the same only You change particular values; torque Mt instead of force and angular velocity omega instead of linear velocity. Than the formula looks P = Mt * omega. Angular velocity is omega = 2 * pí * rpm/60. That power is in watts, to have it in Hp You have to devide by tousand to get kilowatt and then multiplied by 1,36 to get Hp. Suma sumarum it gives P (Hp) = Mt (Nm) * 2pí * rpm/60 * 1,36/1000. From that Your simpliffied formula comes :)

Here with pics from a Mitsubishi Evo9 group N. I believe that the shapes of the curves for a WRC car are similar but with “little” higher values.

Orange=torque; Red=Power; Blue=Power from the wheels.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii284/OkdF/Mitsu_Evo9_grpN_Dyno.jpg


Rengas teho = power from the wheels
Moottori teho = engine power
Momentti = torque
Nopeus = speed
Ilmapaine = air pressure

Mitsubishi Evo 9 has above 80% (220 hp) of the power between 3100-6100 rpm and above 90% (248 hp) of the power between 3200-5200 rpm.

At 3200 rpm, power = 254, 4 hp / torque = 558,3 Nm (High torque, low revs)
At 4900 rpm, power = 254,9 / torque = 365,3 Nm (Low torque, high revs)

Simplifying the formula P = torque * omega

Omega (1/s) -> angular velocity (1/min) = rpm * 2 * pi / 60 = rpm * 2 * 3,14159 / 60 = rpm * 0,10472

W -> hp (DIN, PS, CV etc.) = 1,36 / 1000 = 0,00136

P = torque (Nm) * rpm * 0,10472 * 0,00136 = torque * rpm * 0,0001424 or P = torque * rpm / 7022

(1 / 0,0001424 = 7022. Calculating in Excel with exact values of pi etc. you get 7023)

Power in DIN, PS, CV etc. and torque in Nm:
P (hp) = T (Nm) * Revs (rpm) * 0,0001424 or P (hp) = T (Nm) * Revs (rpm) / 7023

Power in bhp (British horsepower) and torque in lb/ft:
P (bhp) = T (lb/ft) * Revs (rpm) * 0,0001904 or P (bhp) = T (lb/ft) * Revs (rpm) / 5252

Power in bhp (British horsepower) and torque in Nm:
P (bhp) = T (Nm) * Revs (rpm) * 0,0001404 or P (bhp) = T (Nm) * Revs (rpm) / 7121

Power in kW and torque in Nm:
P (kW) = T (Nm) * Revs (rpm) * 0,0001047 or P (kW) = T (Nm) * Revs (rpm) / 9549

Power in kW and torque in lb/ft:
P (kW) = T (lb/ft) * Revs (rpm) * 0,0001420 or P (kW) = T (lb/ft) * Revs (rpm) / 7043

Mitsubishi evo 9 wheel torques with different gears.
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii284/OkdF/Mitsubishi_evo9_wheel_torque.jpg

As you can see, the best wheel torque is around the power peak when selecting the gear that gives the highest wheel torque.

Speed (km/h) = (rpm / gear ratio / final drive ratio) * (pi * wheel diameter (m) * 60 / 1000)

Speed with 3rd gear @ 6236 rpm = (6236 / 1,470 / 3,307) * (3,14 * 0,65 * 60 / 1000) = 157 km/h.

[Viking]

Petters team

http://media.aftenposten.no/archive/00960/_Petter_tittel_jpg_960997x.jpg

[OldF]

Also when Hennings Pug almost hit 900Nm, we can asume that the hp figure is somewhat above 300 :p

With 900 Nm torque @ 3000 rpm would mean that the power is P = 900 Nm * 3000 rpm * 0,0001424 = 384,5 hp (DIN, PS etc.)

[morganmilan]

Petters team

http://media.aftenposten.no/archive/00960/_Petter_tittel_jpg_960997x.jpg
Viking, sorry if it´s already published, but, has told Petter any commentary about the car? Will it be the Xsara for the whole season?

[Mirek]

OldF: I have some dyno charts as well ;)

[rsmith16]

http://media.aftenposten.no/archive/00960/_bilen_til_Petter_t_960944a.jpg
MSN logo is on the door :) Look at the air intake..:"This is my life"

Very nice - one of the most coherent liveries I've seen for quite some time. Puts the works cars to shame...

[Gard]

The engines nowadays are way above 300 HP
We had a Tommy Field engine built for an Escort here which was 367 HP and 589 ft/lbs of torque . It had on everything the WRC escort engines had back in the day , baring Tommy's cam design.

Now with our S9 we get like 340 HP with nearly 600 FT/LBS of torque out of it , but the way it puts the power down compared to the mountune and Tommy Fields engine is so much better .

The Citroen i can safely say is around 350 with 600 ft/lbs of torque , but what amazes me is that the engine revs all the way to 8000 RPM *shift light* . I know couple guys at Pipo engineering :D

The rpm's of the citroen has puseled me too. 2 litre, 34mm restrictor and 8000rpm. Citroen has something up their sleeve here. Are they actually running 1600 or 1800ccm or have they solved issues around velocity around the restrictor. Pipo are building the Ford engines. Do they build C4 engines too?

[Viking]

Viking, sorry if it´s already published, but, has told Petter any commentary about the car? Will it be the Xsara for the whole season?

Nothing new on this subject, Petter has said all along that he will drive the best car he can get his hands on. Citroen will still not give/sell C4 to anyone, I guess the same goes for Focus 08.

[OldF]

]OldF: I have some dyno charts as well ;)

OK, lets have a look at them. Or are they secret material?

[Mirek]

I can't give them on public, sorry :(

[Viking]

Petter Solberg World Rally Team

Petter Solberg
Phil Mills

Team manager, Ken Rees

Francois Xavier Demaison will be responsible for the rally car.
Mechanics are: Tore Dahl, Sven Inge Neby, Stephane Fonta, Jerome Pierre and Jean-Pierre Graby.
Engineers to follow Petter closely this season is Karine Vassant and Charles Hodge

[JFL]

http://www.pettersolberg.com/html/wp-content/uploads/2009/pressemelding/CIMG5175c.jpg
Picture from www.petttersolberg.com (http://www.petttersolberg.com)
Looks good ...

[bassist]

Nice looking livery, I really hope he can be somewhere near the pace.There`s obviousley a few `bob` gone into this project! Will the Punters get confused,and think`Marcus Dodd` is coming towards them? I wish Phil and Petter good luck!!

[JFL]

A nice video, for those whom understand norwegian...
http://www.dagbladet.no/2009/02/06/sport/rally/petter_solberg/motorsport/4725240/

[Brother John]

The Xsara will be run with latest and best spec. The engine, diffs and suspension will have 08 spec.
He will also run with active diffs
Anyone know about homologation rules?
If what I hear is right, he'll use same engine as Loebs C4


Why or the rules for Petter not the same as for everyone?
Diffs and and suspension 08 spec?
Active diffs!!! I thought they hadn't been allowed in 2008!
Political decision from the F.I.A. to save wrc?

Ok it´s nice to see Petter in a rallycar, but.................but leave it.
I´l put him on my pickems with a place on the podium. :s mokin:

[Mirek]

Why or the rules for Petter not the same as for everyone?
Diffs and and suspension 08 spec?
Active diffs!!! I thought they hadn't been allowed in 2008!
Political decision from the F.I.A. to save wrc?

Ok it´s nice to see Petter in a rallycar, but.................but leave it.
I´l put him on my pickems with a place on the podium. :s mokin:

Nope :)

If You look at homologations on http://www.fia.com, You can see that 1.1.2008 Citroën homologated new gearbox and power train for Xsara (no engine since 1.1.2006).

Active diffs are banned for factory cars only. In 2006 there was a rulle which banned them for top drivers even in private cars but it was in 2006 season only. In 2007 Duval also used active diffs on Xsara.

[JFL]

http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=no&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vg.no%2Fsport%2Fmotor%2Fartikke l.php%3Fartid%3D536295&sl=no&tl=enhttp://www.vg.no/sport/motor/artikkel.php?artid=536295

[Finni]

With 900 Nm torque @ 3000 rpm would mean that the power is P = 900 Nm * 3000 rpm * 0,0001424 = 384,5 hp (DIN, PS etc.)

That's quite exactly the hp figure I guessed in the past thread. It's often said that wrc-car has only 350 but if some group N cars has 290 I am inclined to believe that the best wrc-engines has nearly four hundred.

[Tom206wrc]

To me the black/grey livery looks OK... ;)

[Lorenzino]

I have an info that Petter bought Citroen Xsara WRC with chassis number T412.
This car was built in 26.03.2001.
First numberplates '32 CSP 92'
In 2001 reregistered as '723 CZM 78'.
In 2004 was in Citroen museum 'Le Conservatoire'.
In 2005 used by Kronos Racing with numberplates '322 DFQ 78'.
In 2007 used by Kronos Racing with numberplates '98 DZF 78'.
In 2008 used by Conrad Rautenbach in Swedish rally with numberplates '875 EHW 78'.
After that in 2008 was used by Felice Re in Italy (got the title) with numberplates '14R 0101'.
Also Kris Meeke start with this car in Bettega Memorial.
In 2009 used by Conrad Rautenbach in Galway rally with numberplates '138 EQY 78'.

This car take first ever WRC win for Citroen with Jesus Puras (2001 Rally Tour de Corse).
This car has 4 wins at all (Puras/Corse 2001, Loeb/MC 2003, Loeb/Sanremo 2003, Loeb/Cyprus 2004).

Hello,
sorry but the number of the body is wrong. The Xsara of Felice Re at the Rally of San Martino di Castrozza 2008 was the T425. I saw the plaque on the rollbar. The car has not even been used by Rautenbach to Galway because from the beginning of 2008 never to leave Italy.

[grugsticles]

I quite like the livery although I would like to know why a marine group would sponser a rally team?

PS, what is re:member?

Petter, go you good thing!

[JFL]

re:member is a creditcard company
http://www.remembercard.no/

[rx-guru]

Blimey, ol' warhorse Sven-Inge Neby, the good soul technician of the Walfridsson Bros for the last 40 years, makes part of Petter's team now. As Petter's father-in-law Per-Inge "owns" Sven-Inge actually simple to understand.

Does any of you forum Norwegians know anything about the role of fourfold FIA European Rallycross Champion Eivind Opland in Petter's team? Apart from the fact that Eivind is buddy to Petter and buddy-buddy to Henning.

[JFL]

Blimey, ol' warhorse Sven-Inge Neby, the good soul technician of the Walfridsson Bros for the last 40 years, makes part of Petter's team now. As Petter's father-in-law Per-Inge "owns" Sven-Inge actually simple to understand.

Does any of you forum Norwegians know anything about the role of fourfold FIA European Rallycross Champion Eivind Opland in Petter's team? Apart from the fact that Eivind is buddy to Petter and buddy-buddy to Henning.

There is no official statement about Eivind, other then that he arranged the trailer, and stuff.. Maybe he will go back to his roots and be a truck driver... :)

[pettersolberg29]

Anyone know what the sponsor is on the rear wings, about half way up the car. Something like Norsk...? with a claw or something!

[JFL]

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu109/rally-Thomas/Petter%20Solberg%20WRT%202009/DSC00825.jpg?t=1233943514http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu109/rally-Thomas/etter%20Solberg%20WRT%202009/DSC00825.jpg?t=1233943514

norsk båtsenter-----norwegian boatcenter... boat dealer I guess.. :)

[pettersolberg29]

Thanks - and where did you get that photo? I've only seen small, low resolution ones!?

[JFL]

Thanks - and where did you get that photo? I've only seen small, low resolution ones!?

http://s638.photobucket.com/albums/uu109/rally-Thomas/Petter%20Solberg%20WRT%202009/

[pettersolberg29]

And anyone find a good picture of the Johs Lunde logo? I can't find one anywhere and would like one for a CMR2 skin.

[pettersolberg29]

Thanks JFL!

[pettersolberg29]

http://s638.photobucket.com/albums/uu109/rally-Thomas/Petter%20Solberg%20WRT%202009/?action=view&current=DSC00879.jpg

Heres three comments in a row! Um, is there anything behind the reason Henning is also mentioned on the sign in the above photo.

[JFL]

And anyone find a good picture of the Johs Lunde logo? I can't find one anywhere and would like one for a CMR2 skin.
http://www.lundegruppen.no/Graphic/JLG_logo.jpg
http://www.lundegruppen.no/Firma/BAT/

The place where the pressconference was held in Spydeberg is called Henning Petter Solberg plass. "H P place/area..etc"

[pettersolberg29]

Thanks again.

[rx-guru]

Maybe he will go back to his roots and be a truck driver... :)

Fair enough, and somewhat better than going back to his "something local" roots… ;)

[Sulland]

The Johs Lunde Group, the new main sponsor of Petter is a company that started off as a transport company same as Stobart, with a fleet of trailers. In 2006 they restructured and went into Tyres, garages for trailers, selling boats and yachts, and also has a Real estate arm.

They had in 2008 a turnaround at 1,6 billion NOK, and have 60 companies inside the group.

The company HQ is located at Sola, right outside Stavanger on the Norwegian south-west coast.

[grugsticles]

Thanks!!!!

[rx-guru]

Blimey, ol' warhorse Sven-Inge Neby, the good soul technician of the Walfridsson Bros for the last 40 years, makes part of Petter's team now. As Petter's father-in-law Per-Inge "owns" Sven-Inge actually simple to understand.

http://www.rallybase.nl/index.php?type=profile&driverid=5922

[Salist]

http://media.aftenposten.no/archive/00960/_bilen_til_Petter_t_960944a.jpg
MSN logo is on the door :) Look at the air intake..:"This is my life"

Very nice livery...good luck Petter.

[dimviii]

like the livery!!
good luck to Peter for the Norway rally.

[JFL]

Maybe Xsarafan or sombody else can tell if this looks about the same as Loeb's last Xsara?
http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/472/472549/4725499/jpg/active/320x.jpg
http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/472/472550/4725502/jpg/active/320x.jpg
Any buttons missing? :)

[Viridian Black]

has petter tested it yet? if so is there vids?

[Helstar]

Any buttons missing? :)
There aren't any ? Or better, they're all down there ?

The C4 wheel if full instead...

[pino]

http://media.aftenposten.no/archive/00960/_bilen_til_Petter_t_960944a.jpg
MSN logo is on the door :) Look at the air intake..:"This is my life"

Very nice livery :s mokin: well done Peter and Good Luck for the entire season :up:

[Sulland]

has petter tested it yet? if so is there vids?

Petter is testing today and tomorrow, lets see if we can get up to the Czech level on videos and pictures. There is supposed to be a few people showing up there !!!

[SubaruNorway]

has petter tested it yet? if so is there vids?

I'm still too sick and it's snowing lots today so wouldn't have been much fun anyway, hoping to go tomorrow as the weather is supposed to better too then. There has been people from the whole country basicly coming to the test so pretty crowded there i guess.

[Fischer]

What if he wrecks his Xsara, end of season for Petter?

[pettersolberg29]

I was wondering that!

[muscrae]

What if he wrecks his Xsara, end of season for Petter?

depends on his deal with sponsors but ı don't think so.

[Sulland]

Petter is writing on his blog that he really enjoys driving the Xsara. And today it has been snowing a lot, so loose conditions. He also need to learn the new wide Tyres.

They have been testing suspension variations, to get to know the car.

But as he has said before, in a comparison test with 07 Focus, he had decided for the Xsara after driving it for only 400 meters ! He felt that this car suited his style of driving !

[Ramore]

Has he considered Subaru as an options? If he hasn't, then it could mean that he feels more competative in older version of Ford and Cirtoen than in the Impreza.

[Finni]

Has he considered Subaru as an options? If he hasn't, then it could mean that he feels more competative in older version of Ford and Cirtoen than in the Impreza.

Isn't that self-evident?

[Sulland]

If this car has a pretty new and stiff shell, newest driveline with active diffs, new Reiger suspension, a good engine and a good and motivated driver then this package might surprise us !

I think we will se the good old high spirited Petter back in Norway !

[eppel]

http://www.tvnorge.no/Aktuelt/?clipid=2323

[Koppomsbo]

What if he wrecks his Xsara, end of season for Petter?

Acctualy after the first test, on its road home to france the truck that carried the car was involved in a accident and the Xsara was hit and lightly damaged in the right rear.

[Saabaru]

Why would he go with a xsara if citroen can controle the engine output, you know they won't let Petter have the power to compete with there "Golden Boy". Just like the other week in Ireland Loeb clearly had more power than anyone else in a C4.

[pettersolberg29]

I don't know all the technicalities, but surely if Petter has bought the Xsara, he is free to do what he wants with it? He is not part of any Citroen Team - he just happens to be using one of their cars, now privately owned.

Why isn't he allowed to modify the engine?

[Koppomsbo]

Why would he go with a xsara if citroen can controle the engine output, you know they won't let Petter have the power to compete with there "Golden Boy". Just like the other week in Ireland Loeb clearly had more power than anyone else in a C4.

Or just more talented?

[kiil]

I don't know all the technicalities, but surely if Petter has bought the Xsara, he is free to do what he wants with it? He is not part of any Citroen Team - he just happens to be using one of their cars, now privately owned.

Why isn't he allowed to modify the engine?

It's called a contract. A contract that needs to be signed if you want to buy the car. And part of the contract is that Citroen are the only ones allowed to play with the engine.

[Fischer]

Acctualy after the first test, on its road home to france the truck that carried the car was involved in a accident and the Xsara was hit and lightly damaged in the right rear.

Always drama with Petter Solberg :D

[Brother John]

Why would he go with a xsara if citroen can controle the engine output, you know they won't let Petter have the power to compete with there "Golden Boy". Just like the other week in Ireland Loeb clearly had more power than anyone else in a C4.


I agree, this way they make a driver the best ever, and certainly at a French team.

[Saabaru]

Or just more talented?
Watch the video of the last SSS, he clearly has more power.

[Mirek]

Video is definitely not a proof of power. Spectator's point of view is nothing measurable.

[shaitan]

Watch the video of the last SSS, he clearly has more power.

you can be a good spy for the other team
wrc is not f1 can measure power from sound

[Gard]

]Video is definitely not a proof of power. Spectator's point of view is nothing measurable.

Agree, but I picked a spot at shakedown yesterday, with a turn in the bottom of a uphill, that went over a crest. I had good sight of the bottom corner and uphill to the crest. Petter was very fast exiting the corner as where Loeb, but the C4 picked up incredible speed during the uphill and where considerable faster over the crest. Loeb and Sordos cars was even faster than the junior team cars. The Xsara didn't look very fast uphill, but looked like it was handeling well and could cary much speed out of corners.

I was amazed how fast the C4's went, much faster than the Fords too

[Daniel]

Agree, but I picked a spot at shakedown yesterday, with a turn in the bottom of a uphill, that went over a crest. I had good sight of the bottom corner and uphill to the crest. Petter was very fast exiting the corner as where Loeb, but the C4 picked up incredible speed during the uphill and where considerable faster over the crest. Loeb and Sordos cars was even faster than the junior team cars. The Xsara didn't look very fast uphill, but looked like it was handeling well and could cary much speed out of corners.

I was amazed how fast the C4's went, much faster than the Fords too

Just remember the Xsara uses an old XU engine and the Xsara uses a newer EW engine so there is bound to be a difference.

[Mirek]

Yes, as Daniel said, C4 has different engine than Xsara :)

[Sulland]

So what are the difference btw the XU and EW engines ?

[Daniel]

So what are the difference btw the XU and EW engines ?
They're different. One would presume the EW engines are better.... who knows.

[Helstar]

Just remember the Xsara uses an old XU engine and the Xsara uses a newer EW engine so there is bound to be a difference.
Ok maybe there is something different, but compare to Citroen Junior team ... you know it's true, works people has better material, that's all, it's no surprise.

Compare 2006 Loeb Xsara to the 2007 Stohl-Carlsson-Galli Xsaras and tell me it's the same spec car and/or same engine power (of course even compare to Solberg 2009 one).

[Daniel]

Ok maybe there is something different, but compare to Citroen Junior team ... you know it's true, works people has better material, that's all, it's no surprise.

Compare 2006 Loeb Xsara to the 2007 Stohl-Carlsson-Galli Xsaras and tell me it's the same spec car and/or same engine power (of course even compare to Solberg 2009 one).
I wasn't saying that Citroen don't prepare engines differently, I merely said that the engines are totally different between the C4 and Xsara so direct comparisons are not really appropriate.

[Saabaru]

You can live in denial all you want but it is clear as day that Citroen is paving the way for Loeb. I’ve said it for two years now and lately they are getting arrogant enough for anyone to see.

[MJW]

Yes it would be quite interesting if the FIA intervened and checked Loeb's engine compared with Sordo, (or has he also now had the Loeb engine this weeked as he is better on snow thaan I expected) I agree with Saabaru I had suspicions from the time Sordo was close to Loeb on the first few stages of Monte 2007 in the C4, then Loeb gets special engines from Citroen. Understandably really, even though its unfair.

[crazy]

You can live in denial all you want but it is clear as day that Citroen is paving the way for Loeb. I’ve said it for two years now and lately they are getting arrogant enough for anyone to see.
Don't forget your tinfoil hat. :rotflmao:

[urabus-denoS2000]

You can live in denial all you want but it is clear as day that Citroen is paving the way for Loeb. I’ve said it for two years now and lately they are getting arrogant enough for anyone to see.

Loeb is the best,he is the king.

Quite possibly Citroen prepare his car with "special care" but you have to admit it that is for a class better than anyone else...

To those who say that Petter would win if he would get a proper Citroen: he got outpaced by a young Swede with an Fabia WRC 05, an even older car regulary used on the Norweigian national championship....

[Saabaru]

Well... If Loeb wanted to show he has true talent he should have went to SWRT or Ford the year Citroen took off and proved he still has what it takes behind the wheel of a different car. Loeb is good but nobody is that good... Why else would he hug onto Citroen so badly, or why would he be afraid to race in the IRC Monte Carlo without a beloved Citroen? Is he really afraid of the IRC drivers without having a cooked up Citroen?

The thing about Petter is no one knows how fast he truly is because of what he has had to drive for the past few years and the car he is in this weekend isn't any better than a Subaru. This weekend sadly proves nothing good or bad for Petter and unless he gets behind the wheel of a Works Focus we may never know.

[Mirek]

Why would You change team while You're winning? No logic in that, don't You think?

[TMorel]

Saabaru
But surely by that logic, it could be said that Petter was hiding his true lack of ability by hiding it behind the rubbish car. Never having the nerve to take a top flight car for fear of being found out.

Personally I don't think that, but then I don't believe the BS that is spouted off about Seb either

[Brother John]

You can live in denial all you want but it is clear as day that Citroen is paving the way for Loeb. I’ve said it for two years now and lately they are getting arrogant enough for anyone to see.

A lot of people don´t want to see the truth.
Arrogant is the correct description of the french, and yes i know, a lot of people don´t want to hear that.
Work with them and you will be surprised.

[urabus-denoS2000]

Why would he go to another team???

I'm sure nobody thinks "OK,people think that I am not the best so I should run to a bad team to prove them wrong!!!! "

I'm sorry but that simply has no logic

[Daniel]

Why would he go to another team???

I'm sure nobody thinks "OK,people think that I am not the best so I should run to a bad team to prove them wrong!!!! "

I'm sorry but that simply has no logic
You would only do something like this if you were very insecure and Seb doesn't come across like this.

[Sulland]

Will be interesting to see what PSWRT will do btw now and the next rally in terms of trying to get more engineprograms (mappings) from Citroen, or see if they will use others to analyze the engine, to see if they can get more out of it !

Petter is not happy with it as it is now.....

[BDunnell]

A lot of people don´t want to see the truth.
Arrogant is the correct description of the french, and yes i know, a lot of people don´t want to hear that.
Work with them and you will be surprised.

It's not that a lot of people don't want to 'see the truth' — it's that a lot of people think xenophobic, borderline racist slurs on an entire nation's people are unacceptable. I have worked with, and know, French people and found none of them arrogant in the slightest, so your accusation is utterly unjustified.

[Daniel]

It's not that a lot of people don't want to 'see the truth' — it's that a lot of people think xenophobic, borderline racist slurs on an entire nation's people are unacceptable. I have worked with, and know, French people and found none of them arrogant in the slightest, so your accusation is utterly unjustified.
You have to understand where BJ is coming from. He's from Belgium and perhaps he's tired of the Germans invading just to attack France :)

[FabiaFan]

To those who say that Petter would win if he would get a proper Citroen: he got outpaced by a young Swede with an Fabia WRC 05, an even older car regulary used on the Norweigian national championship....
Well, that is a serious point... But what to say about Aava then? He's spoiled my pickem :s For me he is the loser of the rally (just as Andersson was the star).

Btw.: I wouldn't call PGA "young driver" anymore

[Sulland]

Ok, to Petters defence:

3 weeks ago: Nothing
Buy car, trailer, get the team together
3 days before RN: Launch of PSWRT
First real test

Move to Hamar
Start to prepare
Start of RN

A pretty tight program, that it is really impressive to have got together in a really short time.

The engineers and mechanics are not 100 % used to the Xsara, and Petter and his wife are doing a lot to get the team to work, and to cater 400 sponsor guest during the weekend.

Give them a bit of time to get all to work, and then Petter can focus just on driving again, his head have been filled with a lot of stuff. They also need to get the Xsara to work to their liking, to get it closer to the top.

I do not think without a motordoctor involved the Xsara engine are working as it had done had it been run by Citroen sport in anger !

A lot of new stuff for all, but he did this for the Norwegian and international fans - he deserve respect for that !
At least I am impressed what he has achieved in a short month !

Good luck PSWRT !!

[urabus-denoS2000]

Ok, to Petters defence:

3 weeks ago: Nothing
Buy car, trailer, get the team together
3 days before RN: Launch of PSWRT
First real test

Move to Hamar
Start to prepare
Start of RN

A pretty tight program, that it is really impressive to have got together in a really short time.

The engineers and mechanics are not 100 % used to the Xsara, and Petter and his wife are doing a lot to get the team to work, and to cater 400 sponsor guest during the weekend.

Give them a bit of time to get all to work, and then Petter can focus just on driving again, his head have been filled with a lot of stuff. They also need to get the Xsara to work to their liking, to get it closer to the top.

I do not think without a motordoctor involved the Xsara engine are working as it had done had it been run by Citroen sport in anger !

A lot of new stuff for all, but he did this for the Norwegian and international fans - he deserve respect for that !
At least I am impressed what he has achieved in a short month !

Good luck PSWRT !!

PGA drove an even older car that was slower than the Subaru S11 and a lot slower than the Xsara 05 (Kronos version,so nobody says "Oh but Loeb has a rocket car!!!!!!!!") .

His car is fully private, prepared by a small team which runs a lot of national rallys through the year.

Petter's car is a world class machine with world class engineers and logistics.

And yet he was nowhere near the pace of PGA.


PGA is still a relatively new and unproven name in world class rallying,with one full season in a slow car.

Petter Solberg is a proven name,2003 champion.He could get the sponsors (which he easily got) and make a team a lot earlier.He was playing wise because he wanted to get a payed seat,which he unfortunately did not find.


And good luck to both Petter Solberg and PGA!!!

[ste898]

it's that a lot of people think xenophobic, borderline racist slurs on an entire nation's people are unacceptable. I have worked with, and know, French people and found none of them arrogant in the slightest, so your accusation is utterly unjustified.


Do you live in the UK as we have all that racist crap here in this politically correct dump!!!

[BDunnell]

Do you live in the UK as we have all that racist crap here in this politically correct dump!!!

Yes, I do live in the UK, and I object to people making unfair generalisations about entire nations. As a joke, fine, but not meant seriously.

[swordsman]

I think Petter's place is OK. You can't expect more running a privateer Citroen. They don't give out high end stuff - and to get a higher position in it you need A LOT of luck.

I just wonder what all people say now that a few weeks ago seemed to think I was insane when I told that 6th-8th place was the best realistic position for Petter? ;) Don't bash to hard until you see if you're right... :P

[René]

Yes, I do live in the UK, and I object to people making unfair generalisations about entire nations. As a joke, fine, but not meant seriously.

Thanks a lot for your purposes filled with wisdom and intelligence.
Regards,

[Sulland]

Petter said in a interview on norwegian television after the rally that he had a meeting with Citroen Sport tonight.

The car was "was not exactly fresh, or mint" as he said, but more half-tired !

Let's see what he can get out of them, but I guess the car is going in for a complete zeroing, so it is in top shape for the next event.

[Helstar]

A comment from P.Solberg after one stage which explains it all

"This stage was really too fast, this is nothing for me."

Of course you know what he means lol

[Daniel]

Petter said in a interview on norwegian television after the rally that he had a meeting with Citroen Sport tonight.

The car was "was not exactly fresh, or mint" as he said, but more half-tired !

Let's see what he can get out of them, but I guess the car is going in for a complete zeroing, so it is in top shape for the next event.
Sure :D Who downgraded his car? Was it the bear? :laugh:

[JFL]

I must say I'm very impressed by both Petter and PG! I think the Skoda performed very well, and I'm quite sure it is improved from its last outing! Skoda has no factory team in the WRC anymore, and therefore I think the mechanics/engineers are more liberated then the privateers in Citroen/Ford!

And as a little reminder to all. The best MotoGP driver ever(V.Rossi) Proved to himself and his fans, by changing to the "worst" team in the serios! He has even more fans now. . I don't think Loeb would loose anything by trying a different car or even series!

[Mirek]

JFL: Rossi made it because he wanted to leave Honda. Not to prove something to fans.

[JFL]

Did I say something else? He proved he could win in another team..

[urabus-denoS2000]

Skoda has no factory team in the WRC anymore, and therefore I think the mechanics/engineers are more liberated then the privateers in Citroen/Ford!

And as a little reminder to all. The best MotoGP driver ever(V.Rossi) Proved to himself and his fans, by changing to the "worst" team in the serios! He has even more fans now. .


That doesnt mean much because Škoda teams must prepare their cars by the homologation.....



And Rossi didn't go to the worst team! Yamaha was the 2nd best team not far from Honda (Honda had more outright speed).The worst team was Kawasaki.

If Seb would go to Ford he would still be by far the best,becuase the Focus is not far behind.Actually,he would have an army of Focuses behind him and he would have Mr. Tactic himself Malcolm Wilson so really nothing could stop him...
And if he would go to Ford that would mean that either Mikko or JML would go to Citroen....

...and nothing would change

....Loeb would still be the best

But that cannot happen...Imagine a commercial on British TV in which a French guy arrives in a British car...... not possible :cool:

[Sarac330d]

I must say I'm very impressed by both Petter and PG! I think the Skoda performed very well, and I'm quite sure it is improved from its last outing! Skoda has no factory team in the WRC anymore, and therefore I think the mechanics/engineers are more liberated then the privateers in Citroen/Ford!

And as a little reminder to all. The best MotoGP driver ever(V.Rossi) Proved to himself and his fans, by changing to the "worst" team in the serios! He has even more fans now. . I don't think Loeb would loose anything by trying a different car or even series!

Yes but you forgoten one thing, when Rossi leaved Honda he also took all of his mechanics and engineers to Yamaha and that is VERY BIG fact in my opinion!

[Wim_Impreza]

I think Petter's place is OK. You can't expect more running a privateer Citroen. They don't give out high end stuff - and to get a higher position in it you need A LOT of luck.

I just wonder what all people say now that a few weeks ago seemed to think I was insane when I told that 6th-8th place was the best realistic position for Petter? ;) Don't bash to hard until you see if you're right... :P

He was only a few seconds before Matthew Wilson at the finish and that in his home event... That is not great.

[Halvis]

He was only a few seconds before Matthew Wilson at the finish and that in his home event... That is not great.

I haven't followed Matthews rally, so I can't say if he had a troublefree rally or not, but this is Petters "issues":

Day one: Did the mistake to only bring one spare tyre because of weight, lost some time towards the end with few studs and unbalance, still wasn't far off from Sordo and 30 secs faster than MW.

Day two: Had overheating problems, had to stop on SS14 to clean air intake (som kevlar blocked the intake, lost 1.30), later oil leak from gearbox. Would still be close to Sordo if not SS14.

Day three: Clutch problems, still not far from Sordo

I must admit I had higher expectations, but that was probably more due to the excitement of seeing him in Rally Norway than to logic, with only 2 days of testing, and a car with some limitations, it was probably the best one could expect.

[Brother John]

Maybe we can better change the name of this topic to:

1- History of Petter Solberg.
2 -History of Xsara wrc with Petter Solberg.
3 -History of wrc. (CARS)

and go on and on, go on........ :p

[swordsman]

He was only a few seconds before Matthew Wilson at the finish and that in his home event... That is not great.

I never told you it's great - but I didn't expect it to be great. With the risk of being humdrum, Citroen doesn't give good stuff to privateers - I told ya... :D

[Daniel]

Citroen doesn't give good stuff to privateers - I told ya... :D

Ford does? :)

[Halvis]

Ford does? :)

I have no proof for this of course, but my impression is that Henning have pretty equal machinery this year - or am I wrong?

[swordsman]

Ford does? :)

I don't know, because I haven't been really close to a Ford team. But my experience of the Kronos seat in 2007 where I was involved sucked. Both Kronos and Citroen sucked...

[kiil]

I don't know, because I haven't been really close to a Ford team. But my experience of the Kronos seat in 2007 where I was involved sucked. Both Kronos and Citroen sucked...

You keep on hinting about your "insider" knowledge. Maybe it was better to let people know what the source of your knowledge is. Have been involved first hand with Kronos, or are you just bringing more life into unconfirmed rumou
rs?

[Lousada]

It's easy to always blame the cars. Maybe it's something else that 'sucks'.
Somewhere in the rally Norway thread was the result of a radar test during the stage: Solberg:208km/h, Sordo:206km/h, Hirvonen:202km/h, Loeb:194km/h. Of course, this was an incident.... Atkinson was in stage times right up there in Ireland, but of course that was all part of the conspiracy. Solberg doesn't score M points and he can never consistenly beat Loeb in whatever car so Citroen has no reason not to give good stuff.
What I rather think is happening is that someone is too cheap to buy the best stuff, or that he does not want to be compared head to head because reputations will be broken.

[Helstar]

Ford does? :)
Ask that to Galli and, lately, to Aava ? The answers are clearly explained through their actions (both switched from Citroen to Ford).

[swordsman]

You keep on hinting about your "insider" knowledge. Maybe it was better to let people know what the source of your knowledge is. Have been involved first hand with Kronos, or are you just bringing more life into unconfirmed rumou
rs?

Always this bashing here, bashing there :)

Chill, man. It's certainly no secret - I just don't think that those threads are meant to write a lot of personal info in. My background is written in clear-text on the link below (then click "about" in the menu), so just thought anyone soo curious as you would put the effort in to investigate it there. :) Hint: It has to do with Daniel C, and yes - it's at least as first-hand as talking to the team manager and engineers. Is that first-hand enough? :)

(BTW: Of course they didn't say they gave Daniel a car, that's more my own judgement.)

[Brother John]

Ask that to Galli and, lately, to Aava ? The answers are clearly explained through their actions (both switched from Citroen to Ford).

You forget Duval and other customers of Malcolm Wilson.
And after their experience with Ford they disappear of the wrc!

[Gard]

It's easy to always blame the cars. Maybe it's something else that 'sucks'.
Somewhere in the rally Norway thread was the result of a radar test during the stage: Solberg:208km/h, Sordo:206km/h, Hirvonen:202km/h, Loeb:194km/h. Of course, this was an incident.... Atkinson was in stage times right up there in Ireland, but of course that was all part of the conspiracy. Solberg doesn't score M points and he can never consistenly beat Loeb in whatever car so Citroen has no reason not to give good stuff.
What I rather think is happening is that someone is too cheap to buy the best stuff, or that he does not want to be compared head to head because reputations will be broken.

Citroen never sells their top machinery. Team management wouldn't even sell them the Xsara, but was overturned by executives in PSA. the compromise is that the Xsara has closed engine that PSWRT cannot do anything with. If good parts were for sale, they would have bought it

[Xsara Fan]

Citroen never sells their top machinery. Team management wouldn't even sell them the Xsara, but was overturned by executives in PSA. the compromise is that the Xsara has closed engine that PSWRT cannot do anything with. If good parts were for sale, they would have bought it

Sell? As I saw numberplates of Petter`s car, it`s still registered in France. And the number 78 in numberplate says that it`s the same departament as for Citroen Sport... Why?

[Gard]

Sell? As I saw numberplates of Petter`s car, it`s still registered in France. And the number 78 in numberplate says that it`s the same departament as for Citroen Sport... Why?

Leasing!? :D

[Xsara Fan]

Leasing!? :D

Why not? ;)

[Sulland]

The compromise is that the Xsara has closed engine that PSWRT cannot do anything with.


Is this a fact or just a rumour ?

[MJW]

Is this a fact or just a rumour ?
This is common practice - I have heared that all Focus engines remain 'controlled' by MSport.

[Gard]

Is this a fact or just a rumour ?

Straight from Petter

[Brother John]

Even the Subaru wrc cars which are sold by Prodrive, you only can start the car to move and to park them if there are no technicians from Prodrive present with the software to drive normal!
I have heard this in a interview with Patrick Snijers, he will drive the Belgiumchampionship 2009 with Imprezza S12.

[Brother John]

Co driver Phil Mills sees the case more clear „We need a newer car." :p

Source: http://www.rallye-magazin.de/r/wm/d/n/d/2009/02/19/petter-solberg-ist-unschluessig/index.html

[MJW]

Even the Subaru wrc cars which are sold by Prodrive, you only can start the car to move and to park them if there are no technicians from Prodrive present with the software to drive normal!
I have heard this in a interview with Patrick Snijers, he will drive the Belgiumchampionship 2009 with Imprezza S12.
True - after S10 the software for the engine management remains the 'intellectual property of Prodrive whilst the car is still under warranty' (engineer days come with the purchase) you can place car in first gear and reverse, basically get it from workshop to racebox. MSport Ford ensure that the engines remain maintained (i.e set up electronically) by MSport. Its the same with all these high tech rally cars, if the team or engineer doesnt want you to do well you are f***ed.

[Viking]

Well we can at least add 6th place in RN2009 to the long history of this car, and maybe a couple of places better in Cyprus?

Phil Mills shares his opinions at the end of this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhNnczelKGM

[Sulland]

True - after S10 the software for the engine management remains the 'intellectual property of Prodrive whilst the car is still under warranty' (engineer days come with the purchase) you can place car in first gear and reverse, basically get it from workshop to racebox. MSport Ford ensure that the engines remain maintained (i.e set up electronically) by MSport. Its the same with all these high tech rally cars, if the team or engineer doesnt want you to do well you are f***ed.

What is the policy of Skoda for their WRC cars ?
ECU Mapping still property, or not ?

[Mirek]

I think that Škoda doesn't care about WRCs at all. I think that service is provided by Motorsport Kopecký...

[Iskald]

]I think that Škoda doesn't care about WRCs at all. I think that service is provided by Motorsport Kopecký...

Thats correct Mirek, There are no "intellectual property" clauses concerning both engine mapping and diff. and transmission setups for the Fabia WRC. The engineer Pavel (don`t know his last name) is no longer working for Skoda Motorsport or Kopecky, but has aquired all programs and can supply his customers with the latest upgrades, totally independent from Skoda. Worked quite good for PG in Rally Norway, eh...?

[Sulland]

Perfect ! That is how it should be, not the big brother concept that Ford, Sub and Citroen !

Open Source Software !

[Mirek]

Sulland: That situation has nothing to do with Škoda's attitude. It was caused by complete disband of Škoda Motorsport after 2005 season ;)

[Barreis]

Today I red in one auto magazine that Petter's car was Conrad's proberty before he bought it..

[MJW]

Today I red in one auto magazine that Petter's car was Conrad's proberty before he bought it..
It wasnt Conrad's property - it was however the car that Conrad drove in Galway Rally in Ireland as his pre Rally Ireland familiarisation with the type of roads he would expect in Ireland.

[Barreis]

Mr.PH from PH Sport told me a few months ago that they (Citroen) don't rent Xsara's anymore.. Only selling..