Start the count! The ETO on the board with 7

[Hondo]

I see where probably one of our drones took out 7 in a missle attack in Pakistan.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D95SSHE80&show_article=1

Now that he is in on the big picture and has understandings he didn't have before, I don't think al-Qaeda is going to get the break they were hoping for from the new president. Bear in mind, he could have stopped these attacks his first day in office.

[Hondo]

18

[Hondo]

59 looks and not a word. If Bush was still pulling the trigger, there would be howling galore. So transparently lame.

59 looks and not a word. If Bush was still pulling the trigger, there would be howling galore. So transparently lame.

Or just interminably dull.

We get it, you don't like Obama.

However, a change of subject once in a while might just save you from being the forums NeoCon version of Mr Spackman.

[BDunnell]

Or just interminably dull.

We get it, you don't like Obama.

However, a change of subject once in a while might just save you from being the forums NeoCon version of Mr Spackman.

I haven't been bothered to post this week, largely on the grounds that almost every thread on this forum seems to include the same people — some of whom I would have thought above such things — parroting the same stuff, labouring as they are under the misapprehension that those of us who dare to think that Obama might, just might, be an improvement on what went before have taken leave of our critical faculties. At least it seems that way.

[Hondo]

21. Sorry, I'm not a neocon.

21. Sorry, I'm not a neocon.

Well you're in danger of sounding like one.

I don't believe anybody with any sense thought that Obama was going to stop everything Ok'd by the previous administration in the first 10 minutes of his presidency, so I don't see the point in pointing out that he hasn't.

[Tomi]

it's a bit unfair to expect that he change everything what he will in a few days, but by closing the consentration camp in cuba he already took usa 1 step closer to become a civilised nation.

[Hondo]

He signed an order to close Gitmo within a year. There is nothing keeping him from using a similar facility elsewhere, up to and including US naval vessels.

Nothing has been closed. Obama, could have stopped all further missle attacks 1 minute after taking the oath of office. He understands the purpose of Gitmo and he understands the importance of the missles we don't admit to firing.

The executive order closing the Gitmo detention center was a bone thrown to quiet the howling beasts. The appearance of doing something while doing nothing.

[anthonyvop]

Well you're in danger of sounding like one.

I don't believe anybody with any sense thought that Obama was going to stop everything Ok'd by the previous administration in the first 10 minutes of his presidency, so I don't see the point in pointing out that he hasn't.
For the strike to comence the DOD had to get permission from the President.
Obama OK'ed it.

[Jag_Warrior]

As I recall, Obama said back during the campaign that he was in favor of cross-border attacks against al Qaeda. I also seem to recall that both McCain and Clinton criticized him for "broadcasting" punches.

One report I've read says that one of al Qaeda's Top 20 leaders may be among the dead. For anyone who opposes al Qaeda, I'd call this good news... and good shooting.

Now maybe we can stop spying on other Americans and get down to the business of catching Osama and crippling al Qaeda.

[anthonyvop]

Now maybe we can stop spying on other Americans and get down to the business of catching Osama and crippling al Qaeda.
Last time I checked all of the 911 attackers were in the USA

[Jag_Warrior]

Last time I checked all of the 911 attackers were in the USA

Yeah, along with 300 million+ other people.

I'm no more likely to believe that a neocon administration is going to protect our civil liberties than a liberal one. What one is allowed to do may set a precedent for another.

Warrants are required for a reason. If it's gotten from a "secret court", there should be no national security concerns. If they don't have the evidence even for that sort of court, do they truly have justification for the wiretap in the first place? At some point, the courts may have to decide. But it sounds like Holder has already made his opinion known. And while I have other issues with him, on this issue, I fully agree with him:



His nominee for attorney general, Eric Holder, was even more outspoken in a June 2008 address to the liberal American Constitution Society.
"I never thought that I would see that a president would act in direct defiance of federal law by authorizing warrantless NSA surveillance of American citizens," Holder said. "This disrespect of the rule of law is not only wrong, it is destructive in our struggle against terrorism."
Holder stood his ground at his confirmation hearing Thursday, telling the Senate Judiciary Committee that the president had no power to disregard a 1978 law requiring the government to seek a warrant from a secret court before wiretapping calls between a U.S. citizen and an alleged foreign terrorist or spy.

But when Bush finally sought and gained congressional approval last summer for a revised surveillance effort, Holder said, the program became constitutional. The law that Bush signed authorizes wiretapping for purposes of foreign intelligence-gathering with some degree of court supervision, the extent of which hasn't been made public. It is a law that "we will make great use of," Holder told senators.

In an apparent reversal of his position, Obama voted for that law, saying it was better than the 2001 version of the program because Bush accepted congressional authority, judicial review and a Justice Department audit that is due this summer.

[anthonyvop]

Yeah, along with 300 million+ other people.

I'm no more likely to believe that a neocon administration is going to protect our civil liberties than a liberal one. What one is allowed to do may set a precedent for another.

Warrants are required for a reason. If it's gotten from a "secret court", there should be no national security concerns. If they don't have the evidence even for that sort of court, do they truly have justification for the wiretap in the first place? At some point, the courts may have to decide. But it sounds like Holder has already made his opinion known. And while I have other issues with him, on this issue, I fully agree with him:

And yet it is the Liberals who want to take away our basic freedoms.
Freedom of choice. Freedom to protect ourselves, Freedom of Speech. And they complain about evidence that is gathered without warrant even though it can never be used in a court of law.

[Jag_Warrior]

And yet it is the Liberals who want to take away our basic freedoms.
Freedom of choice. Freedom to protect ourselves, Freedom of Speech. And they complain about evidence that is gathered without warrant even though it can never be used in a court of law.

You worry about the liberals. I worry about all of them. But any precedent that a conservative relies on while in office doesn't just magically disappear when a liberal enters office.

[BDunnell]

He signed an order to close Gitmo within a year. There is nothing keeping him from using a similar facility elsewhere, up to and including US naval vessels.

Nothing has been closed. Obama, could have stopped all further missle attacks 1 minute after taking the oath of office. He understands the purpose of Gitmo and he understands the importance of the missles we don't admit to firing.

The executive order closing the Gitmo detention center was a bone thrown to quiet the howling beasts. The appearance of doing something while doing nothing.

I think it was a very significant symbolic step. I'm sure you can understand why. As for the rest of it, surely no-one expected that he would end the whole 'war on terror' this week? Therefore, cynicism is unjustified on this particular point.

[Hondo]

I think it was a very significant symbolic step. I'm sure you can understand why. As for the rest of it, surely no-one expected that he would end the whole 'war on terror' this week? Therefore, cynicism is unjustified on this particular point.

I really can understand your point of view, especially not being American. Americans have long ago become cynical of these "dog & pony" shows that give the appearance of action while nothing changes. Gitmo, like many other things the press twists, is not the hell hole they would have you believe. Although it may have outlived it's usefulness, it was the right thing at the time. As the conflict in Afghanistan continues, what is your suggestion for handling those that are taken in training camps?

One thing to possibly keep in mind is the number of attacks, in the USA and Europe, that may have been thwarted due to information obtained at Gitmo. That is information that will not be public for some time.