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Hondo
20th January 2009, 23:24
USA on verge of bankruptcy

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/iainmartin/4295219/Gordon-Brown-brings-Britain-to-the-edge-of-bankruptcy.html



Gordon Brown brings Britain to the edge of bankruptcy
Iain Martin says the Prime Minister hasn't 'saved the world' and now faces disgrace in the history books

By Iain Martin
Last Updated: 8:36AM GMT 20 Jan 2009

Comments 195 | Comment on this article

They don't know what they're doing, do they? With every step taken by the Government as it tries frantically to prop up the British banking system, this central truth becomes ever more obvious.

Yesterday marked a new low for all involved, even by the standards of this crisis. Britons woke to news of the enormity of the fresh horrors in store. Despite all the sophistry and outdated boom-era terminology from experts, I think a far greater number of people than is imagined grasp at root what is happening here.

The country stands on the precipice. We are at risk of utter humiliation, of London becoming a Reykjavik on Thames and Britain going under. Thanks to the arrogance, hubristic strutting and serial incompetence of the Government and a group of bankers, the possibility of national bankruptcy is not unrealistic.

The political impact will be seismic; anger will rage. The haunted looks on the faces of those in supporting roles, such as the Chancellor, suggest they have worked out that a tragedy is unfolding here. Gordon Brown is engaged no longer in a standard battle for re-election; instead he is fighting to avoid going down in history disgraced completely.

This catastrophe happened on his watch, no matter how much he now opportunistically beats up on bankers. He turned on the fountain of cheap money and encouraged the country to swim in it. House prices rose, debt went through the roof and the illusion won elections. Throughout, Brown boasted of the beauty of his regulatory structure, when those in charge of it were failing to ask the most basic questions of financial institutions. The same bankers Brown now claims to be angry with, he once wooed, travelling to the City to give speeches praising their "financial innovation".

Does the Prime Minister realise the likely implications when the country joins the dots? He has never been wild on shouldering blame, so I doubt it. But Brown is a historian. He should know that when a nation has put all its chips on red and the ball lands on black, the person who made the call is responsible. Neville Chamberlain discovered this in May 1940 with the German invasion of France.

We're some way from a similar event. But do not underestimate the gravity of the emergency and potential for disgrace.

The Government's bail-out of the banks in October with £37 billion of taxpayers' money was supposed to have "saved the world", according to the PM, but now it is clear that it has not even saved the banks. Our money kept the show on the road for only three months.

As the Liberal Democrats' Treasury spokesman Vince Cable asks: where has the £37 billion gone? The answer, as Cable knows, is that it has disappeared down the plug hole.

It is finally dawning on the Government that the liabilities of the British banks grew to be so vast in the boom years that they now eclipse the entire economy. Unfortunately, the Treasury is pledged to honour those
liabilities because it has guaranteed not to let a British bank go down. RBS has liabilities of £1.8 trillion, three times annual UK government spending, against assets of £1.9 trillion. But after the events of the past year, I wager most taxpayers will believe the true picture is worse.

Meanwhile, the assets are falling in value. This matters, because post-nationalisation these liabilities are now yours and
mine.

And they come piled on top of the rocketing national debt, charitably put at £630 billion, or 43 per cent of GDP. The true figure is much higher because the Government has used off-balance sheet accounting to hide commitments such as PFI projects.

Add to that record consumer indebtedness and Britain becomes extremely vulnerable. The markets have worked this out ahead of the politicians, as usual, and are wondering what to do next. If they decide our nation is a basket case, they will make it so.

The PM and the Chancellor , both looking a year older every day, tell us that for their next trick they will buy more bank shares, create a giant insurance scheme for bad debt, pledge to honour liabilities without limit, cross their fingers and hope it all works. The phrase "bottomless pit" springs to mind for a reason: that is what they have designed.

In this gloom, the Prime Minister has but one slender hope: that somehow, by force of personality, the new President Obama engineers a rapid American recovery restoring global confidence, energising the markets and making us all forget this bad dream.

Obama is talented but he is not a magician. Instead, Gordon Brown's nightmare, in which we are all trapped, is going to get much worse.

Oops...wrong country...must be more of that world-ignorant thing.

Never mind.

steve_spackman
20th January 2009, 23:26
USA on verge of bankruptcy

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/iainmartin/4295219/Gordon-Brown-brings-Britain-to-the-edge-of-bankruptcy.html



Gordon Brown brings Britain to the edge of bankruptcy
Iain Martin says the Prime Minister hasn't 'saved the world' and now faces disgrace in the history books

By Iain Martin
Last Updated: 8:36AM GMT 20 Jan 2009

Comments 195 | Comment on this article

They don't know what they're doing, do they? With every step taken by the Government as it tries frantically to prop up the British banking system, this central truth becomes ever more obvious.

Yesterday marked a new low for all involved, even by the standards of this crisis. Britons woke to news of the enormity of the fresh horrors in store. Despite all the sophistry and outdated boom-era terminology from experts, I think a far greater number of people than is imagined grasp at root what is happening here.

The country stands on the precipice. We are at risk of utter humiliation, of London becoming a Reykjavik on Thames and Britain going under. Thanks to the arrogance, hubristic strutting and serial incompetence of the Government and a group of bankers, the possibility of national bankruptcy is not unrealistic.

The political impact will be seismic; anger will rage. The haunted looks on the faces of those in supporting roles, such as the Chancellor, suggest they have worked out that a tragedy is unfolding here. Gordon Brown is engaged no longer in a standard battle for re-election; instead he is fighting to avoid going down in history disgraced completely.

This catastrophe happened on his watch, no matter how much he now opportunistically beats up on bankers. He turned on the fountain of cheap money and encouraged the country to swim in it. House prices rose, debt went through the roof and the illusion won elections. Throughout, Brown boasted of the beauty of his regulatory structure, when those in charge of it were failing to ask the most basic questions of financial institutions. The same bankers Brown now claims to be angry with, he once wooed, travelling to the City to give speeches praising their "financial innovation".

Does the Prime Minister realise the likely implications when the country joins the dots? He has never been wild on shouldering blame, so I doubt it. But Brown is a historian. He should know that when a nation has put all its chips on red and the ball lands on black, the person who made the call is responsible. Neville Chamberlain discovered this in May 1940 with the German invasion of France.

We're some way from a similar event. But do not underestimate the gravity of the emergency and potential for disgrace.

The Government's bail-out of the banks in October with £37 billion of taxpayers' money was supposed to have "saved the world", according to the PM, but now it is clear that it has not even saved the banks. Our money kept the show on the road for only three months.

As the Liberal Democrats' Treasury spokesman Vince Cable asks: where has the £37 billion gone? The answer, as Cable knows, is that it has disappeared down the plug hole.

It is finally dawning on the Government that the liabilities of the British banks grew to be so vast in the boom years that they now eclipse the entire economy. Unfortunately, the Treasury is pledged to honour those
liabilities because it has guaranteed not to let a British bank go down. RBS has liabilities of £1.8 trillion, three times annual UK government spending, against assets of £1.9 trillion. But after the events of the past year, I wager most taxpayers will believe the true picture is worse.

Meanwhile, the assets are falling in value. This matters, because post-nationalisation these liabilities are now yours and
mine.

And they come piled on top of the rocketing national debt, charitably put at £630 billion, or 43 per cent of GDP. The true figure is much higher because the Government has used off-balance sheet accounting to hide commitments such as PFI projects.

Add to that record consumer indebtedness and Britain becomes extremely vulnerable. The markets have worked this out ahead of the politicians, as usual, and are wondering what to do next. If they decide our nation is a basket case, they will make it so.

The PM and the Chancellor , both looking a year older every day, tell us that for their next trick they will buy more bank shares, create a giant insurance scheme for bad debt, pledge to honour liabilities without limit, cross their fingers and hope it all works. The phrase "bottomless pit" springs to mind for a reason: that is what they have designed.

In this gloom, the Prime Minister has but one slender hope: that somehow, by force of personality, the new President Obama engineers a rapid American recovery restoring global confidence, energising the markets and making us all forget this bad dream.

Obama is talented but he is not a magician. Instead, Gordon Brown's nightmare, in which we are all trapped, is going to get much worse.

Oops...wrong country...must be more of that world-ignorant thing.

Never mind.

oh dear oh dear looks like the Labour party has got themselves and us in a bit of a pickle....im thinking that they will loose the next election.

not all doom and gloom..the sound of around 3 million out of work compared to the 11 million in the states out of work could be classed as comforting :rolleyes:

Roamy
21st January 2009, 02:09
I like bankruptcy - that is what it is for. Just shaft everyone and start over. I fail to see the problem and think we should move there ASAP. If you are dumb enough to give drunken sailors money then so be it. Hey let the world give us some foreign aid back. Two way street eh Euros???

Dave B
21st January 2009, 09:15
A Telegraph opinion writer doesn't like Gordon Brown's handling of the economy - shock horror!

You do know that in the UK it's often nicknamed the "Torygraph", don't you?

Still, glad it's not just Fox which is biased. :laugh:

Mark
21st January 2009, 09:27
It's a rather misleading term, I mean can a country really just go bankrupt?! Sorry, the UK has gone out of business, everyone has 20 minutes to get out :p

BDunnell
21st January 2009, 10:03
A Telegraph opinion writer doesn't like Gordon Brown's handling of the economy - shock horror!

You do know that in the UK it's often nicknamed the "Torygraph", don't you?

Still, glad it's not just Fox which is biased. :laugh:

An opinion writer who, I note, comes up with no solutions of his own. I suspect that, like me, he has no idea either.

Andrewmcm
21st January 2009, 11:36
That's the thing with modern-day newspapers; a significant proportion of the population now use websites to obtain their news, leaving newspapers slightly redundant. It seems that newspapers are filled much more with column-writers these days - I suppose people will then buy the newspaper that offers the opinion to which they are most inclined...

Daniel
21st January 2009, 12:05
So I shouldn't go for that job interview tomorrow :confused:

Oh well as Mark said to me on MSN, everyone clear out your desks and leave the country by 5pm please :p

Daniel
21st January 2009, 12:06
A Telegraph opinion writer doesn't like Gordon Brown's handling of the economy - shock horror!

You do know that in the UK it's often nicknamed the "Torygraph", don't you?

Still, glad it's not just Fox which is biased. :laugh:

Fox is great though! I tried to set a series link for Bill O'Reilly but there's no option to do that :( :bigcry:

This is a no spin zone pinheads!!!!!!!!! :rotflmao:

ST205GT4
21st January 2009, 14:22
O'Reilly is the biggest oxygen thief on this planet.

Daniel
21st January 2009, 14:23
O'Reilly is the biggest oxygen thief on this planet.

Or so the liberal media want you to think :p

ST205GT4
22nd January 2009, 01:28
No actually Daniel I came to that conclusion myself after being exposed to him for 2 years in the US. If someone like Martin Luther King is an example of all that is hopeful and good about the US, people like O'Reilly sit at the other end of the spectrum. He is a disgusting human being.

I actually found tv in the US quite disturbing. The Americans on here probably won't like it, but I found it quite 1984ish. A constant barrage of fear mongering by the cable news networks who have to find something to get people to watch their channel.

The Soup was good though. I still watch it here in Australia on cable.

Daniel
22nd January 2009, 01:38
No actually Daniel I came to that conclusion myself after being exposed to him for 2 years in the US. If someone like Martin Luther King is an example of all that is hopeful and good about the US, people like O'Reilly sit at the other end of the spectrum. He is a disgusting human being.

I couldn't agree more. It's shocking to find such people exist and are real after the media in Australia.

ST205GT4
22nd January 2009, 02:06
I wouldn't hold the Australian media up as a paragon of excellence either. We have plenty of shows that appeal to the same sort of demographic here in Australia, such as Today Tonight on TV or talk back radio like Alan Jones.

However the one saving grace is that there simply isn't the same level of hysteria pushed by the news programs as there is in the States. I gave up watching anything but BBC News whilst I lived there.

Daniel
22nd January 2009, 02:12
I wouldn't hold the Australian media up as a paragon of excellence either. We have plenty of shows that appeal to the same sort of demographic here in Australia, such as Today Tonight on TV or talk back radio like Alan Jones.

However the one saving grace is that there simply isn't the same level of hysteria pushed by the news programs as there is in the States. I gave up watching anything but BBC News whilst I lived there.

Thankfully Alan doesn't have a radio show in WA :)

ST205GT4
22nd January 2009, 02:21
Well we used to have Liam Bartlett instead. Now he's foisted on the whole of Australia on 60 Minutes, which has become a Today Tonight with a bigger budget.

If you want decent journalism these days you need to watch SBS.

Daniel
22nd January 2009, 02:26
Well we used to have Liam Bartlett instead. Now he's foisted on the whole of Australia on 60 Minutes, which has become a Today Tonight with a bigger budget.

If you want decent journalism these days you need to watch SBS.

Woohoo! Foreign nudie movies and good journalism on one station? :D

ST205GT4
22nd January 2009, 03:19
Disappointingly the foreign nudies seem to have died off a bit! What am I paying my taxes for!?

rah
22nd January 2009, 05:16
Disappointingly the foreign nudies seem to have died off a bit! What am I paying my taxes for!?
Top Gear & South Park.

ShiftingGears
22nd January 2009, 05:23
Top Gear & South Park.

Theres still a lot of good movies on SBS.
Although I wish they'd hurry up and get rid of Pizza and all of its witless, moronic and unfunny spinoffs.

Daniel
22nd January 2009, 09:35
Top Gear & South Park.

You can get those off the internet! I want my obscure foreign nudies! :p

BDunnell
24th January 2009, 11:29
That's the thing with modern-day newspapers; a significant proportion of the population now use websites to obtain their news, leaving newspapers slightly redundant. It seems that newspapers are filled much more with column-writers these days - I suppose people will then buy the newspaper that offers the opinion to which they are most inclined...

I read the columnists I like on the internet, which is a bit paradoxical, I suppose.

The trouble is that the most rabid columnists such as Richard Littlejohn and Jeremy Clarkson have very little responsibility to be correct or even consistent when spouting their views, because there is very little comeback available to anyone.

Andrewmcm
24th January 2009, 13:52
Clarkson is amusing - I think his column is an extension of his Top Gear persona - a charicature of himself. Littlejohn I'm not so sure.....

BDunnell
24th January 2009, 17:31
Clarkson is amusing - I think his column is an extension of his Top Gear persona - a charicature of himself. Littlejohn I'm not so sure.....

I think they are both cut from exactly the same cloth. Clarkson's Sun column is, in my view, just as unpleasant as anything Littlejohn churns out. And there are some very silly left-wing columnists as well, while we're about it. Yasmin Alibhai-Brown I find especially annoying.

Andrewmcm
24th January 2009, 18:34
Oh sorry, I've only read Clarkson's Times column and based my views on that - I'm not aware of the contents of his Sun writings.

anthonyvop
24th January 2009, 23:40
not all doom and gloom..the sound of around 3 million out of work compared to the 11 million in the states out of work could be classed as comforting :rolleyes:
Oh Dear. Seems that besides being bankrupt the UK's educational system is in trouble as well.

Lets do some simple math shall we?

The Population of the UK is 60 Million.
The Population of the USA is 300 Million.

So that means the UK has 1/5 the population of the USA.

So if you multiply the 3 million unemployed in the UK by 5 you get a grand total of ..............15 Million.

Now that is comforting.

BDunnell
25th January 2009, 03:00
Oh Dear. Seems that besides being bankrupt the UK's educational system is in trouble as well.

Lets do some simple math shall we?

Maths.

Alexamateo
25th January 2009, 04:33
Maths.

My dictionary states that Maths is a chiefly British usage, so Anthony's use of Math was proper for anyone schooled in the U.S.A.