UK Jewish MP: Israel acting like Nazis in Gaza

[steve_spackman]

"Israel was born out of Jewish Terrorism" Tzipi Livnis Father was a Terrorist" Astonishing claims in the House of Parliament. SIR Gerald Kaufman, the veteran Labour MP, yesterday compared the actions of Israeli troops in Gaza to the Nazis who forced his family to flee Poland.

During a Commons debate on the fighting in Gaza, he urged the government to impose an arms embargo on Israel.

Sir Gerald, who was brought up as an orthodox Jew and Zionist, said: "My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town a German soldier shot her dead in her bed.

"My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza. The present Israeli government ruthlessly and cynically exploits the continuing guilt from gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians."

He said the claim that many of the Palestinian victims were militants "was the reply of the Nazi" and added: "I suppose the Jews fighting for their lives in the Warsaw ghetto could have been dismissed as militants."

He accused the Israeli government of seeking "conquest" and added: "

They are not simply war criminals, they are fools."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGuYjt6CP8&feature=related

[BDunnell]

Comparisons with the Nazis are almost always overdone, and I believe this is the case here.

[Garry Walker]

Comparisons with the Nazis are almost always overdone, and I believe this is the case here.
Ditto.

[Eki]

"Israel was born out of Jewish Terrorism" Tzipi Livnis Father was a Terrorist" Astonishing claims in the House of Parliament. SIR Gerald Kaufman, the veteran Labour MP, yesterday compared the actions of Israeli troops in Gaza to the Nazis who forced his family to flee Poland.

During a Commons debate on the fighting in Gaza, he urged the government to impose an arms embargo on Israel.

Sir Gerald, who was brought up as an orthodox Jew and Zionist, said: "My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town a German soldier shot her dead in her bed.

"My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza. The present Israeli government ruthlessly and cynically exploits the continuing guilt from gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians."

He said the claim that many of the Palestinian victims were militants "was the reply of the Nazi" and added: "I suppose the Jews fighting for their lives in the Warsaw ghetto could have been dismissed as militants."

He accused the Israeli government of seeking "conquest" and added: "

They are not simply war criminals, they are fools."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGuYjt6CP8&feature=related
He seems like a very wise and fair man.

[Daniel]

"Israel was born out of Jewish Terrorism" Tzipi Livnis Father was a Terrorist" Astonishing claims in the House of Parliament. SIR Gerald Kaufman, the veteran Labour MP, yesterday compared the actions of Israeli troops in Gaza to the Nazis who forced his family to flee Poland.

During a Commons debate on the fighting in Gaza, he urged the government to impose an arms embargo on Israel.

Sir Gerald, who was brought up as an orthodox Jew and Zionist, said: "My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town a German soldier shot her dead in her bed.

"My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza. The present Israeli government ruthlessly and cynically exploits the continuing guilt from gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians."

He said the claim that many of the Palestinian victims were militants "was the reply of the Nazi" and added: "I suppose the Jews fighting for their lives in the Warsaw ghetto could have been dismissed as militants."

He accused the Israeli government of seeking "conquest" and added: "

They are not simply war criminals, they are fools."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGuYjt6CP8&feature=related

Wise words. The nazi comment is a low blow but I think sometimes you need to kick someone in the nuts to make your point in cases like this.

[Easy Drifter]

You would as you you do not think Israel has the right to exist.
Hamas, who send children with explosives strapped to their bodies as sucide bombers against civilians is alright I suppose.
I do not totally support Israel in what has happened but Hamas were the ones indiscriminately lobbing rockets against Israeli civilians.
Israel has called a ceasefire. It will be interesting to see how long before Hamas start lobbing rockets again.
Israel has said what will happen if it starts up again.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Comparisons with the Nazis are almost always overdone, and I believe this is the case here.

You and I can agree 100% on this one. I believe the term heard often is "self loathing Jew". That is a shame.

I guess Labour party politics trumps realistic views of a real mess.

Israel isn't pure as the driven snow...but acting like Nazi's? Yeesh...

[BDunnell]

I guess Labour party politics trumps realistic views of a real mess.

I don't think Gerald Kaufman is speaking for anyone else other than himself on this issue.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I don't think Gerald Kaufman is speaking for anyone else other than himself on this issue.


Are you going to tell me no one in the Labour party agrees with Mr. Kaufman? I would suspect he isn't buying drinks for a while in the pub with his fellow Labour MP's. Heck...Vanessa Redgrave was an MP once with vehemently anti-Israeli ideas and I don't recall the Labour party kicking her out or telling her she was wrong.

He may have been speaking for himself, but he did it knowing he would have support from his party.

I am of the opinion it is harder to be brave on something like this if you know what you say will get your repuatation attacked by the people you were drawing support from. Winston Churchill in 1933 was the only man in Britain warning everyone about the Nazi's and he took a beating for it..didn't stop him.

I think Mr. Kaufman is a brave and principled man..but I also think he is going overboard and could have made a greater statement with some more nuance with more effect.

[BDunnell]

Heck...Vanessa Redgrave was an MP once with vehemently anti-Israeli ideas and I don't recall the Labour party kicking her out or telling her she was wrong.

Vanessa Redgrave was never an MP. I don't think she was ever even a member of the Labour Party, as I know she stood for Parliament for the Socialist Workers' Party (or a similar organisation).



I think Mr. Kaufman is a brave and principled man..but I also think he is going overboard and could have made a greater statement with some more nuance with more effect.

I would tend to agree.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Vanessa Redgrave was never an MP. I don't think she was ever even a member of the Labour Party, as I know she stood for Parliament for the Socialist Workers' Party (or a similar organisation).



I would tend to agree.

I couldn't remember if she got elected or not but I do remember her being connected with Labour, but then again, I cant follow Brit politics that easily from here...

[Hondo]

Funny thing is, you can make a similar argument for Hamas and the Nazis.

Both lost territory through treaty and armed conflict.

Both initiated additional armed conflict they couldn't win to regain territory.

Both ended up having to use their children as part of their defense.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Yeesh Fiero, you love pouring Gas on a fire don't ya?

[Hondo]

Just attempting to be objective.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Hamas and the Nazi's have one more thing in common. They have an anti-Jewish clause in their party princples. It is the reason Hamas has no credibility with anyone in the Israeli Government. The Nazi's were great at having "allies" that they turned on when it suited their purposes. I don't suppose Hamas' support of a cease fire is motivated by anything more than to bury the wounded and get more arms.

[Valve Bounce]

Wise words. The nazi comment is a low blow but I think sometimes you need to kick someone in the nuts to make your point in cases like this.

One has to consider how history has been written to placate the gullible. Does anyone here really believe that God sent down the Angel Gabriel to slaughter the firstborn son of every Egyptian when the pharaoh reneged on Moses? who was, by the way plucked from the bulrushes in the Nile? Well, I've got news for you : that's what I was taught at a Catholic boarding school. :rolleyes:

While I don't condone the slaughter of innocents in the Gaza, nevertheless, I do not condone the firing of rockets into Israel, which I consider as an insane and useless provocation. Just makes you wonder who thought of that stupid tack and what their motives were.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Valve bounce...I said much the same....you don't provoke a war like this when you know you will get hammered unless you just don't care for the people you claim to represent.

[Valve Bounce]

Valve bounce...I said much the same....you don't provoke a war like this when you know you will get hammered unless you just don't care for the people you claim to represent.

I've got more bon mots: This is a defacto war between the Islamist Shias of Iran and the moderate Arabs who are relying on Israel to protect them from the extreme militants.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I wont go that far. I think this is the same ole Israel vs the extermists thing it has always been. The moderates I think just look the other way because they know as long as Israel is around, they wont be targeted in any form....

[Valve Bounce]

I wont go that far. I think this is the same ole Israel vs the extermists thing it has always been. The moderates I think just look the other way because they know as long as Israel is around, they wont be targeted in any form....

Just in case you might think I thought all that up, here's an interesting read: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24929276-2703,00.html

[Mark in Oshawa]

I had heard it before...you wouldn't be the first to have brought up that theory. I just don't think (and it is just my opinion based on the past ) the Arab moderates think that far ahead.

[Valve Bounce]

I had heard it before...you wouldn't be the first to have brought up that theory. I just don't think (and it is just my opinion based on the past ) the Arab moderates think that far ahead.

You would be surprised. I worked in Saudi Arabia in 1978 after departing Iran 3 days after the Shah, and the Saudis were already concerned about the Mullahs back then. Let's just say that I had first hand experience working with Lebanese, Palestinians as well as Saudis and Iranians through the years. I can tell you that many, many moderate Iranians are worried about the Mullahs and their Islamists.

[Mark in Oshawa]

You would be surprised. I worked in Saudi Arabia in 1978 after departing Iran 3 days after the Shah, and the Saudis were already concerned about the Mullahs back then. Let's just say that I had first hand experience working with Lebanese, Palestinians as well as Saudis and Iranians through the years. I can tell you that many, many moderate Iranians are worried about the Mullahs and their Islamists.

You tell me this and I have no reason to disbelieve you really other than thinking Hamas and Israel would find some reason to fight because Hamas is always for stirring the proverbial pot.

The Mullahs of Iran are the great destablizers and wild cards for sure in the Middle East. They are always ready to aid and abet groups that will upset the status quo in the rest of the middle east, especially if they are willing to go to war with Israel.

I just hope that in my life time some form of moderates are able to get control of Iran. Some experts I have read think it is possible but I have my doubts it is coming any time soon.

[Mark in Oshawa]

BTW...VB that article was excellent.

[Hondo]

I have no problem buying into Valve's theory. Nobody is doing all this for the Palestinians. The Arabs I have met think of the Palestinians the same way the Europeans think of Gypsies. They have no use for them at all beyond using them as an excuse and a buffer. The people that believe this is for a homeland and the greater good of the Palestinians are nuts. Arafat had many opportunities to settle the situation but he was making far too much money off of it personally to ever let it end.

[Valve Bounce]

I have no problem buying into Valve's theory. Nobody is doing all this for the Palestinians. The Arabs I have met think of the Palestinians the same way the Europeans think of Gypsies. They have no use for them at all beyond using them as an excuse and a buffer. The people that believe this is for a homeland and the greater good of the Palestinians are nuts. Arafat had many opportunities to settle the situation but he was making far too much money off of it personally to ever let it end.

Sorry Buddy, but this is not my theory. Many Iranians have very little regard for the Mullahs, and I have this from first hand experience. In fact, when I was working in the regions, I did not encounter a single Iranian who respected the Mullahs. Those who did not despise them were just too scared to speak out. It is interesting what comes out when you travel as the lone passenger of a car - the driver is just managing an existence - he used to lecture at the Uni in Tehran and spoke perfect English. Now he works in a camp out in the district as a driver and visits his family once every two weeks. He tells me he is lucky he still has a job.

I guess I'm just too old to believe in goodness comes only from the religious - in my old age I have become either wiser, or just a bloody cynic. Same thing.

[Mark in Oshawa]

VB...a Persian ( he refused to be known as an Iranian ) told me most Iranians are very much not into the tenets of Islam as the Mullahs are but they have little choice back in Iran. You either are with the program or you find a way to emigrate and get out.....

[Valve Bounce]

VB...a Persian ( he refused to be known as an Iranian ) told me most Iranians are very much not into the tenets of Islam as the Mullahs are but they have little choice back in Iran. You either are with the program or you find a way to emigrate and get out.....

...................or you simply keep your mouth shut and try to exist, and feed your family best you can. THAT is the harsh reality.

[janvanvurpa]

Valve bounce...I said much the same....you don't provoke a war like this when you know you will get hammered unless you just don't care for the people you claim to represent.


Damn, something we can both totally agree on.
Wonders never cease.

[janvanvurpa]

...................or you simply keep your mouth shut and try to exist, and feed your family best you can. THAT is the harsh reality.

And that is the lot of much of the world. Most people in most of the world have these basic worries as the primary concern in their lives and the machinations of various gangs of people claiming to be their "leaders" are distant and compared with the immidiate needs, relatively unimportant.

We in the comfy First World tend to forget this.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Damn, something we can both totally agree on.
Wonders never cease.

Hate to break it to you, if you read more of my posts you might find we have agreed on more than that. Of course that would involve keeping an open mind and not having a knee jerk reaction to my opinions. That's ok tho...continue on.

[harsha]

just my two cents...

in dealing with muslims , i found Shia muslim's generally more progressive and open minded than Sunni's...

Iran is a Shia country and they(with exception to the extremists and all) are generally more receptive to change and are generally very moderate compared to the Saudi's (Sunni's)

[Rani]

You and I can agree 100% on this one. I believe the term heard often is "self loathing Jew". That is a shame.


Exactly my view. I invite him to live in Sderot for 6 months with his family, and we'll see what he thinks after living from shelter to shelter with 10 seconds warning every time.

An honest question for all:
Would your country allow rockets rain on your city daily?

[Daniel]

Exactly my view. I invite him to live in Sderot for 6 months with his family, and we'll see what he thinks after living from shelter to shelter with 10 seconds warning every time.

An honest question for all:
Would your country allow rockets rain on your city daily?

You make it sound like the rockets are coming down like heavy rain when really it's more like drizzle. It's your country's doing and until you stop the blockade it will continue to happen. End of story.

[Hondo]

It's going to happen with or without the blockade.

[Rani]

You make it sound like the rockets are coming down like heavy rain when really it's more like drizzle. It's your country's doing and until you stop the blockade it will continue to happen. End of story.
It happened way before the blockade and I bet it will happen after the blockade will end. Iran's long arm gives those radicals those rockets and they fire willingly. Lebanon used to shoot rockets with no blockade or anything, they just saw we were tentative with our response, similar to Hamas before this round of violence.

Daniel, an honest question to you:
Have you ever been under fire?
I have had the relatively good fortune of standing what you may call 'more like a drizzle', ie 2-3 rockets a day max. You can't go outdoors, you are afraid to live your life. There have been days sderot was bombarded with 60 rockets a day. Hell 8 year old children in Sderot have been born into this. They know nothing else than the routine of literally running for your life a number of times each and every time. That doesn't only include the able bodied like me and you, it includes the handicapped, the hearing impaired, young children, the elderly and the mentally challenged.
What makes you think you have any tools whatsoever to call this a 'drizzle'.

This has nothing to do with the blockade and has everything to do with the Hamas rule wanting to exterminate Israel. You could say they are fighting against one of your beloved UN's resolutions, 181 to be exact.


About operaton 'Cast Lead': I am truly sad about the people gone in Gaza. A lot of them had nothing to do with terrorism and so didn't deserve to be harmed. It has to be understood Hamas dug tunnels under people's homes, hid weapons in mosques and hospitals and in doing so neccesitated the bombardment of those buildings.

[SOD]

About operaton 'Cast Lead': I am truly sad about the people gone in Gaza. A lot of them had nothing to do with terrorism and so didn't deserve to be harmed. It has to be understood Hamas dug tunnels under people's homes, hid weapons in mosques and hospitals and in doing so neccesitated the bombardment of those buildings.

I am sure you are sad :rolleyes:

One thing I know is that the Likud response to IDF fatalities is "So be it"

BTW, you didnt stop the rocket attacks.

[Easy Drifter]

Why isn't Hamas firing rockets at Eygpt? That border is technically closed too. Minor detail that border is where the rockets are entering Gaza.
As has been pointed out before if Hamas can get munitions into Gaza why can they not get supplies in?
One rocket a week is one too many let alone several each day.
Israel stopped the attack and is withdrawing by all reports. But they have warned Hamas that if the rocket attacks start again (or continue) they will be back.
That is also a notice to the rest of the world.
Aid must be permitted to get in and I feel through Eygpt as well as Israel.

[SOD]

I think Mr. Kaufman is a brave and principled man..but I also think he is going overboard and could have made a greater statement with some more nuance with more effect.

You could have heard a pin drop in the House of Commons when he made his speech, I don't think he could have made more of an impact. He's a guy whose grandmother was murdered by the Nazis, and he lived through WW2, which very few people (I guess none) here can even claim to experienced. Funny how the idiot grandsons of the soldiers of WW2 have a ignorant attitude to war and conflict.



I guess it just repulses him that the murder of his Grandmother by the Nazis is given as justification and cover for what Israel is doing in Palestine.

[Daniel]

That doesn't only include the able bodied like me and you, it includes the handicapped, the hearing impaired, young children, the elderly and the mentally challenged.

Oh noes! They're discriminating against the disabled now? :rolleyes:

I'm sure Israel would NEVER do that.

Funnily enough I've never been under fire! I've never lived somewhere where we piss our neighbours off the the point where they want to kill us. Funny idea that.

[Valve Bounce]

You could have heard a pin drop in the House of Commons when he made his speech, I don't think he could have made more of an impact. He's a guy whose grandmother was murdered by the Nazis, and he lived through WW2,

which very few people (I guess none) here can even claim to experienced.

Funny how the idiot grandsons of the soldiers of WW2 have a ignorant attitude to war and conflict.



I guess it just repulses him that the murder of his Grandmother by the Nazis is given as justification and cover for what Israel is doing in Palestine.

Sorry that you have marred what should have been a great post with such a strange statement , which is irrelevant to the post and to your argument. It is also incorrect.

[Daniel]

Nice article on Israel's moronic genocide in Gaza.

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2009/jan/26/00006/

[Rani]

Nice article on Israel's moronic genocide in Gaza.

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2009/jan/26/00006/
I'd call the article moronic.


But these are not the real goals of Operation Cast Lead. The actual purpose is connected to Israel’s long-term vision of how it intends to live with millions of Palestinians in its midst. It is part of a broader strategic goal: the creation of a “Greater Israel.” Specifically, Israel’s leaders remain determined to control all of what used to be known as Mandate Palestine, which includes Gaza and the West Bank. The Palestinians would have limited autonomy in a handful of disconnected and economically crippled enclaves, one of which is Gaza. Israel would control the borders around them, movement between them, the air above and the water below them.

How was Israel reaching "Greater Israel" when we unilaterally withdrew from Gaza?

We all want them to have their own country, and even tried to feed it to them by spoon in 2000. They rejected it and since have gone in the way of terrorism. It's their free choice, just as it is our free choice to defend our country.

The common opinion around here is that everytime you give our neighbours something we only get more violence. We saw this in Lebanon in 2000 and in Gaza. Our enemies see these withdrawls as signs of weakness and try to go for the whole hand which we can't give.
Had a real partner for peace was to emerge, we'd jump on board and try to go for peace. There are precedents for this, as I already stated about a billion times.

Daniel, you never cease to amaze me with your arrogance, ignorance and one sided views each and every time. You have never been here, Your only knowledge of the conflict is through biased media, and you couldn't tell a fanatic trying to kill you even if he kicked you in the balls screaming 'Allah hua ackbar'.
Maybe you should leave the keyboard alone for a few days and step outside to the real world. The truth is out there.




I am sure you are sad :rolleyes:

One thing I know is that the Likud response to IDF fatalities is "So be it"



Maybe it'll strike you as a surprise, but I am just as human as you are. Dead innocant people don't make me smile in satisfaction, quite the contrary.

Can you back your Likud response up or are you tossing as usual?

[steve_spackman]

I'd call the article moronic.



How was Israel reaching "Greater Israel" when we unilaterally withdrew from Gaza?

We all want them to have their own country, and even tried to feed it to them by spoon in 2000. They rejected it and since have gone in the way of terrorism. It's their free choice, just as it is our free choice to defend our country.

The common opinion around here is that everytime you give our neighbours something we only get more violence. We saw this in Lebanon in 2000 and in Gaza. Our enemies see these withdrawls as signs of weakness and try to go for the whole hand which we can't give.
Had a real partner for peace was to emerge, we'd jump on board and try to go for peace. There are precedents for this, as I already stated about a billion times.

Daniel, you never cease to amaze me with your arrogance, ignorance and one sided views each and every time. You have never been here, Your only knowledge of the conflict is through biased media, and you couldn't tell a fanatic trying to kill you even if he kicked you in the balls screaming 'Allah hua ackbar'.
Maybe you should leave the keyboard alone for a few days and step outside to the real world. The truth is out there.




Maybe it'll strike you as a surprise, but I am just as human as you are. Dead innocant people don't make me smile in satisfaction, quite the contrary.

Can you back your Likud response up or are you tossing as usual?

please stop making Israel look to be the innocent party here..its kinda boring...you lot seem to do a great job at it let me tell you.
you lot are just as bad as Hamas if not worse.

[Daniel]

Daniel, you never cease to amaze me with your arrogance, ignorance and one sided views each and every time. You have never been here, Your only knowledge of the conflict is through biased media, and you couldn't tell a fanatic trying to kill you even if he kicked you in the balls screaming 'Allah hua ackbar'.
Maybe you should leave the keyboard alone for a few days and step outside to the real world. The truth is out there.

:rotflmao:

I don't need to be able to know who is a fanatic and who is not.

I'm far more likely to meet Admiral Ackbar from Star Wars than someone screaming 'allah hua ackbar'
http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/ackbar.jpg
Why? Because I choose not to live in a country where the government makes an industry out of pissing people off to the point where they'd want to kill me. Your people fought against the Germans in WW2 when faced with persecution so surely you must understand why the Palestinians do what they do. But then again your country and your people operate on the "Do as we say not as we do" doctrine don't you :laugh: It's a good job your buddies have got so much money and so much influence back in the US because you would have been wiped off the face of the earth a long time ago if the Americans didn't send money and military technology. This won't last forever and one day you're going to find yourself alone over there and you'll wish you'd made friends with your neighbours rather than just making enemies. Your people used terrorism to get what they wanted and now you're getting a dose of terrorism back. But sadly the irony is lost upon you and your ignorant feckless leaders.

[BDunnell]

Exactly my view. I invite him to live in Sderot for 6 months with his family, and we'll see what he thinks after living from shelter to shelter with 10 seconds warning every time.

An honest question for all:
Would your country allow rockets rain on your city daily?

Does not the fact that this has been happening suggest, even slightly, to you that all might not have been entirely well with the policies of your country's governments? As the old saying goes, it takes two to tango. And I for one would not like to live in a country that employs large numbers of censors and media monitors whose job is to attempt to stamp out even the mildest criticism of that country.

(PS — This does not, repeat not, mean I think Israel deserves it in any sense. To come up with that interpretation would be simplistic.)

[steve_spackman]

Oh noes! They're discriminating against the disabled now? :rolleyes:

I'm sure Israel would NEVER do that.

Funnily enough I've never been under fire! I've never lived somewhere where we piss our neighbours off the the point where they want to kill us. Funny idea that.

he is always trying to get people to feel sorry for him and Israel...well i have no sympathy for any of em...the people being slaughtered by the Israeli forces..yes. not Hamas or the Israelis.

you are doing to the people of GAZA what has been done to your people in WW2...

[steve_spackman]

Exactly my view. I invite him to live in Sderot for 6 months with his family, and we'll see what he thinks after living from shelter to shelter with 10 seconds warning every time.

An honest question for all:
Would your country allow rockets rain on your city daily?
you are always trying to get people to feel sorry for you and Israel...well i have no sympathy for any of em...the people being slaughtered by the Israeli forces..yes. not Hamas or the Israelis.

you are doing to the people of GAZA what was done in WW2...

[steve_spackman]

I'd call the article moronic.



How was Israel reaching "Greater Israel" when we unilaterally withdrew from Gaza?

We all want them to have their own country, and even tried to feed it to them by spoon in 2000. They rejected it and since have gone in the way of terrorism. It's their free choice, just as it is our free choice to defend our country.

The common opinion around here is that everytime you give our neighbours something we only get more violence. We saw this in Lebanon in 2000 and in Gaza. Our enemies see these withdrawls as signs of weakness and try to go for the whole hand which we can't give.
Had a real partner for peace was to emerge, we'd jump on board and try to go for peace. There are precedents for this, as I already stated about a billion times.

Daniel, you never cease to amaze me with your arrogance, ignorance and one sided views each and every time. You have never been here, Your only knowledge of the conflict is through biased media, and you couldn't tell a fanatic trying to kill you even if he kicked you in the balls screaming 'Allah hua ackbar'.
Maybe you should leave the keyboard alone for a few days and step outside to the real world. The truth is out there.




Maybe it'll strike you as a surprise, but I am just as human as you are. Dead innocant people don't make me smile in satisfaction, quite the contrary.

Can you back your Likud response up or are you tossing as usual?

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=26406

your government cant admit to anything they do wrong can they

[BDunnell]

you are always trying to get people to feel sorry for you and Israel...well i have no sympathy for any of em...the people being slaughtered by the Israeli forces..yes. not Hamas or the Israelis.

I do not understand how anyone can say that they do not have sympathy for those being killed on either side in a conflict like this.

[steve_spackman]

I do not understand how anyone can say that they do not have sympathy for those being killed on either side in a conflict like this.

sorry i meant to say hamas and the israeli soldiers...

[SOD]

Maybe it'll strike you as a surprise, but I am just as human as you are. Dead innocant people don't make me smile in satisfaction, quite the contrary.

Can you back your Likud response up or are you tossing as usual?

There's 1200+ killled in your name Rani, and don't you forget it.

The quote is from METV News Wednesday 18th June 2008 interview with the Likud foreign affairs spokesman. Therefore, the Likud line on the 10 Israeli soldiers killed is "so be it". No not tossing, just keeping my eye on the news

[steve_spackman]

There's 1200+ killled in your name Rani, and don't you forget it.

The quote is from METV News Wednesday 18th June 2008 interview with the Likud foreign affairs spokesman. Therefore, the Likud line on the 10 Israeli soldiers killed is "so be it". No not tossing, just keeping my eye on the news
FLASHBACK: Israeli officer: I was right to shoot 13-year-old child

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=26371

[steve_spackman]

Israeli troops dance as they await the order for a Gaza war

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=26356

[SOD]

don't forget the dropping of phosphorous bombs on civilians.

hey Rani, did they call to your house to ask you to write a message on any of the bombs?

[steve_spackman]

don't forget the dropping of phosphorous bombs on civilians.

hey Rani, did they call to your house to ask you to write a message on any of the bombs?


Israelis Soldiers refuse to serve in Gaza

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=26407

[SOD]

Israelis Soldiers refuse to serve in Gaza

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=26407

"The brainwash in this country begins in Kindergarten" wow, I knew the Israelis were subjected to some form of mind control propaganda, didn't think it started in Kindergarten

[donKey jote]

How was Israel reaching "Greater Israel" when we unilaterally withdrew from Gaza?
The article goes on to explain a perfectly plausible version a couple of paragraphs later. :)


Your only knowledge of the conflict is through biased media
I half agree with you... a priori, I would think of a publication called "The American Conservative" as being biased too.
Maybe you could provide the rest of the world with your own unbiased sources ?

[Camelopard]

We all want them to have their own country, and even tried to feed it to them by spoon in 2000...............

yep just like the map in this link proves:

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/ref-nakba.html


http://www.ifamericansknew.org/images/4maps.jpg

[steve_spackman]

yep just like the map in this link proves:

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/ref-nakba.html


http://www.ifamericansknew.org/images/4maps.jpg

that to me looks like ethnic cleansing if ever i saw it...

[harsha]

that to me looks like ethnic cleansing if ever i saw it...

yeah...why did the Israel leave it there :confused:

[leopard]

that to me looks like ethnic cleansing if ever i saw it...

Initiating international support for zionist, England is the first country accountable for the crime... :rolleyes:

[Daniel]

yep just like the map in this link proves:

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/ref-nakba.html


http://www.ifamericansknew.org/images/4maps.jpg

I think what Rani meant when he said "their own country" could be translated more correctly as "their own little craphole where they can live free of the ravages of employment, proper medical care and hope"

[Daniel]

Does not the fact that this has been happening suggest, even slightly, to you that all might not have been entirely well with the policies of your country's governments? As the old saying goes, it takes two to tango. And I for one would not like to live in a country that employs large numbers of censors and media monitors whose job is to attempt to stamp out even the mildest criticism of that country.

(PS — This does not, repeat not, mean I think Israel deserves it in any sense. To come up with that interpretation would be simplistic.)

Rubbish! It's only the media in the rest of the world that is biased :laugh: Rani could be a Serb supporting the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia back in the 90's, a Zimbabwean Mugabe supporter or whatever, he simply blindly goes along with what his government says even though the rest of the world seems to be against it and even their buddies in the US didn't support them as they did in the past.

[Rani]

Rubbish! It's only the media in the rest of the world that is biased :laugh: Rani could be a Serb supporting the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia back in the 90's, a Zimbabwean Mugabe supporter or whatever, he simply blindly goes along with what his government says even though the rest of the world seems to be against it and even their buddies in the US didn't support them as they did in the past.
Now that is rubbish.
This has nothing to do with my government. Your post lights you in the same light as I'd be if I were to brand everyone against my views as anti semites.

I bet you'd have been a rabid Chamberlain fan boy if you were alive in the 30's.

[Daniel]

I bet you'd have been a rabid Chamberlain fan boy if you were alive in the 30's.

And I bet you're secretly atracted to goats.

[Hondo]

Nice map. It confirms my theory that when you pick the losing side in a war, you're likely to lose territory,

[Rani]

And I bet you're secretly atracted to goats.
You got me. Don't tell anyone but these goats kinda turn me on:

http://www.pontiacpower.net/pictures/65gto3.jpg

[Eki]

Nice map. It confirms my theory that when you pick the losing side in a war, you're likely to lose territory,
Yep, like South Vietnam.

[Hondo]

Yep, like South Vietnam.

Absolutely! Except there's no South Vietnam at all any more.

[leopard]

Strange, why would be proud of seizing up someone else's land territory, it's an obvious embarasement. The maps apparently show that Zionist cannot accept reality nor respect others including site plan of UN.

They may think that they will live forever that have motivated them to being wicked and greedy. Why wouldn't try to utilize this short life useful, useful for themself and others, just be nice persons and treat others nicely.

You can rest assured the first initiator of Zionist and those gave them support and legalize any form of violence to push down palestinian, is no longer in this earth. It is likely that they are now crying out at their grave facing the real justice against all crimes they have done during their life...

It shouldn't have happened if they have right belief...

[Eki]

Absolutely! Except there's no South Vietnam at all any more.

And there wouldn't be any Palestine at all either if they didn't resist.

[Rani]

Strange, why would be proud of seizing up someone else's land territory, it's an obvious embarasement. The maps apparently show that Zionist cannot accept reality nor respect others including site plan of UN.

They may think that they will live forever that have motivated them to being wicked and greedy. Why wouldn't try to utilize this short life useful, useful for themself and others, just be nice persons and treat others nicely.

You can rest assured the first initiator of Zionist and those gave them support and legalize any form of violence to push down palestinian, is no longer in this earth. It is likely that they are now crying out at their grave facing the real justice against all crimes they have done during their life...

It shouldn't have happened if they have right belief...
I see thode maps as a smaller version of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Greater_Israel_map.jpg
In that perspective is only smaller.

Unfortunately, being nice gets you killed in this neigbourhood.

[Eki]

I see thode maps as a smaller version of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Greater_Israel_map.jpg
In that perspective is only smaller.

Unfortunately, being nice gets you killed in this neigbourhood.
Being bad also gets you killed. I think more Israeli soldiers have died in the attack to Gaza than Israeli civilians by Hamas rockets.

[leopard]

Unfortunately, being nice gets you killed in this neigbourhood.

If I get killed by the Zionist, I will not sleep too long at my grave for immediate reincarnation, and frighten you the whole night. :devil: :bones: :)

[Daniel]

If I get killed by the Zionist, I will not sleep too long at my grave for immediate reincarnation, and frighten you the whole night. :devil: :bones: :)

OWNED :D

[Rani]

If I get killed by the Zionist, I will not sleep too long at my grave for immediate reincarnation, and frighten you the whole night. :devil: :bones: :)
Of course you'll sleep. Aren't you the leopard sleeping ?

[Mark]

If I get killed by the Zionist, I will not sleep too long at my grave for immediate reincarnation, and frighten you the whole night. :devil: :bones: :)

Just one night then? That's ok :p

[Hondo]

And there wouldn't be any Palestine at all either if they didn't resist.

Sure there would. Probably more of them too.