Iran-China

[Hondo]

Anybody remember me posting that the real reason for the Iraq invasion was to stop an Iraq - China oil alliance?

Well shuckins if it hasn't happened now. I realize Iran isn't Iraq but China now has a foothold in the Middle East oil fields and Iran will have an ally that even makes Russia nervous.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D95N2SAO0&show_article=1

Putin better get that gas flowing and start making friends again.

[schmenke]

This would not be the first middle-east petroleum deal for China. They are actively sourcing petroleum from wherever they can get it :dozey: . Heck, they have been in negotiations with Canada's oilsands producers for some time now, which can make the Iran deal of 75,000 barrels/day seem like a drop in a bucket :mark:

[Tomi]

Good thing is that they did go there using passports, and propably will pay for the oil as well, in what way do you mean this will effect Russia, have they had any problems with Iran?

[Hondo]

Schmenke, the biggest deal is not so much the oil at the present levels, but the fact that the leadership of Canada and it's citizens haven't and aren't calling for Jihad against anybody.

China being cosy with Iran makes dealing with Iran's nuclear program far more difficult because nobody is ready to piss off China, including Russia. I hear, but don't have proof, that incidences of Russia and China shooting at each other over border situations is fairly regular. There aren't too many countries that Russia will allow to shoot at them.

[schmenke]

The only thing that countries have to fear from China is a deeper trade imbalance :mark:

Skirmishes along the Russian border have long since subsided. China and Russia are now strong trading partners.

China has a demand for oil, see Iran as a convenient source and couldn't give a rats' bottom of what the rest of the world thinks of their potential nuclear program.

[Hondo]

The only thing that countries have to fear from China is a deeper trade imbalance :mark:

Skirmishes along the Russian border have long since subsided. China and Russia are now strong trading partners.

China has a demand for oil, see Iran as a convenient source and couldn't give a rats' bottom of what the rest of the world thinks of their potential nuclear program.


Thanks for the information. I am still convinced China wants to become a 1 country OPEC.

[steve_spackman]

Thanks for the information. I am still convinced China wants to become a 1 country OPEC.

i also reckon China is to be the next 'superpower'

[Tomi]

The only thing that countries have to fear from China is a deeper trade imbalance :mark:

Skirmishes along the Russian border have long since subsided. China and Russia are now strong trading partners.

China has a demand for oil, see Iran as a convenient source and couldn't give a rats' bottom of what the rest of the world thinks of their potential nuclear program.

They are operating from inside of countries now too, by buying property where it is cheap at the moment, also they propably dont get effected that much from the economical problems, because they have a big home market who to sell.

[schmenke]

... I am still convinced China wants to become a 1 country OPEC.

:confused:

[schmenke]

They are operating from inside of countries now too, by buying property where it is cheap at the moment, also they propably dont get effected that much from the economical problems, because they have a big home market who to sell.

Not as much as you think. Although large in numbers, the Chinese population still has relatively little purchasing power. The Chinese economy is still hugely dependent on foreign exports.

Much of the asset aquisition attempts around here are typically by the Taiwanese or Honk Konganese... I think Beijing has their eyes more on securing natural resources.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Beijing is merely trying to ensure they have access to the raw materials they need to keep their economy growing at full steam. The concept of recessions and raw materials being bought by other nations driving the price up gets in the way of that so if they can do a deal with Iran and keep them friendly, they don't care what happens to the balance of power in the Middle East or what crazy man threatens to do with his nukes. Like North Korea, they will put the Iranians on a leash...they think.

Really, what China is doing is what the Japanese kind of wanted in the 30's, that is access to oil and raw materials they need to keep on top....except the Chinese are much more civilized and not invading anyone to STEAL the stuff.

[Tomi]

Beijing is merely trying to ensure they have access to the raw materials they need to keep their economy growing at full steam. The concept of recessions and raw materials being bought by other nations driving the price up gets in the way of that so if they can do a deal with Iran and keep them friendly, they don't care what happens to the balance of power in the Middle East or what crazy man threatens to do with his nukes. Like North Korea, they will put the Iranians on a leash...they think.

Really, what China is doing is what the Japanese kind of wanted in the 30's, that is access to oil and raw materials they need to keep on top....except the Chinese are much more civilized and not invading anyone to STEAL the stuff.

agree, but i think it will balance the power in middle east.

[Mark in Oshawa]

agree, but i think it will balance the power in middle east.


Tomi...hate to break it to you, but if you think the Chinese making the Yanks mad in the Middle East is a good plan, just remember the Americans still share with the world. China wont if they feel they don't have to....

This odd little quirk you have to insist on balance ignores the fact that China doesn't believe in balance. China wants what it wants and if they can take it easily, they will. They don't share...they have 1.2 billion people to feed and a massive growth effort on their economy. They need every drop of oil. Meanwhile most of the Middle East oil has gone to either Japan or Europe traditionally...NOT the US. So explain to me again why the US is the problem? They just want to make sure the oil market remains "Free"....

[Tomi]

Tomi...hate to break it to you, but if you think the Chinese making the Yanks mad in the Middle East is a good plan, just remember the Americans still share with the world. China wont if they feel they don't have to....

This odd little quirk you have to insist on balance ignores the fact that China doesn't believe in balance. China wants what it wants and if they can take it easily, they will. They don't share...they have 1.2 billion people to feed and a massive growth effort on their economy. They need every drop of oil. Meanwhile most of the Middle East oil has gone to either Japan or Europe traditionally...NOT the US. So explain to me again why the US is the problem? They just want to make sure the oil market remains "Free"....

Lol, you are talking like China is about to invade Iran, oil prices are not set by China in the first place, there is 1 good rule for oil prices, the more tension there is in middle east the higher the price is, I think more that a deal with China guarantee Iran income from the oil, and makes it possible for them to sell oil on free market in the future as well.
What comes to where the middle east oil goes, propably a little everywhere, I dont have the latest statistics but I think more than 50% of Iraq export goes t US, and i dont think they sell sand.

[SOD]

China cut an oil deal with Iraq a few months ago too.

come to MSF and bitch about the spoils of war not coming your way.

[janvanvurpa]

Tomi...hate to break it to you, but if you think the Chinese making the Yanks mad in the Middle East is a good plan, just remember the Americans still share with the world. China wont if they feel they don't have to....

This odd little quirk you have to insist on balance ignores the fact that China doesn't believe in balance. China wants what it wants and if they can take it easily, they will. They don't share...they have 1.2 billion people to feed and a massive growth effort on their economy. They need every drop of oil. Meanwhile most of the Middle East oil has gone to either Japan or Europe traditionally...NOT the US. So explain to me again why the US is the problem? They just want to make sure the oil market remains "Free"....

My gawd I wonder how one person can write so much utterly nonsensical tripe. I try not to believe that some people are truly mentally deficient unless they are generous enough to prove it like some Right-wing dead enders who seem to have a form of Turretts disease where they blurt out empty slogans at completey random times, but the sheer volume of what seems to be just made up of whole cloth with zero connection to reality like "Mark" pours forth is a unique case.


Mark the wannabe 'Merikun Redneck, expert on everything in the entire word, is mistaken even though I am sure his opinion was formed by "talking to a lot of people" in America.

Underlying everything in China and baked into the culture so deeply even knucklehead truck drivers know it is a quest for BALANCE.
Balance in human relationships, balance in architecture, balance in nature, in all forms of art, in diet---even the most common Chinese can talk all about the balance of 'energies' is the insanely huge variety of food everybody eats (I find that amazing, ordinary people just chatting a meal "Oh that's 'hot' and that should be good for that little cough you have, have more!)
It is baked in the law, into the face to face business relationships that I've done in my little motorsports business, it is a thing my wife said she found unusual in me for a Westerner, a consciousness and some attempt at purposely maintaining a balance.

I have thought that nearly every word written by Mark was just blabbering and the effect of long hours isolated listening to "Talk Radio" and talking to others similarly isolated.

Now I know its just an unfortunately overactive imagination and no realisation that he's just talking crap.
No sense of balance in other words.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Lol, you are talking like China is about to invade Iran, oil prices are not set by China in the first place, there is 1 good rule for oil prices, the more tension there is in middle east the higher the price is, I think more that a deal with China guarantee Iran income from the oil, and makes it possible for them to sell oil on free market in the future as well.
What comes to where the middle east oil goes, propably a little everywhere, I dont have the latest statistics but I think more than 50% of Iraq export goes t US, and i dont think they sell sand.

Tomi....the US relies on imported oil, but more comes from Canada, Mexico and Venezuela. They don't actually get that much from the Middle East. Travel times and the time factor of having tankers going across the Atlantic vs just coming up the Gulf from Hugo or by pipeline from their neighbours make getting Middle East Oil not really that practical.

I don't' think the Chinese will steal the oil in Iran, but they will make sure they have contracts that guarntee them exclusivity and they are not above playing a little hard ball to get that. The Americans might try the same but they have limits to how much persuasion they will use on negotiating an oil deal. The Chinese may not....

[Mark in Oshawa]

My gawd I wonder how one person can write so much utterly nonsensical tripe. I try not to believe that some people are truly mentally deficient unless they are generous enough to prove it like some Right-wing dead enders who seem to have a form of Turretts disease where they blurt out empty slogans at completey random times, but the sheer volume of what seems to be just made up of whole cloth with zero connection to reality like "Mark" pours forth is a unique case.


Mark the wannabe 'Merikun Redneck, expert on everything in the entire word, is mistaken even though I am sure his opinion was formed by "talking to a lot of people" in America.

Underlying everything in China and baked into the culture so deeply even knucklehead truck drivers know it is a quest for BALANCE.
Balance in human relationships, balance in architecture, balance in nature, in all forms of art, in diet---even the most common Chinese can talk all about the balance of 'energies' is the insanely huge variety of food everybody eats (I find that amazing, ordinary people just chatting a meal "Oh that's 'hot' and that should be good for that little cough you have, have more!)
It is baked in the law, into the face to face business relationships that I've done in my little motorsports business, it is a thing my wife said she found unusual in me for a Westerner, a consciousness and some attempt at purposely maintaining a balance.

I have thought that nearly every word written by Mark was just blabbering and the effect of long hours isolated listening to "Talk Radio" and talking to others similarly isolated.

Now I know its just an unfortunately overactive imagination and no realisation that he's just talking crap.
No sense of balance in other words.

Well Mate...you are entitled to your opinion. You want to insult me, that's fine too.

AS for the Chinese culture and Balance, I get that Ying and Yang thing. I believe in it but their governement isn't about balance. China needs raw materials in a world that is getting scarce in such things. They are quite willing to pay but if someone wanted to change the rules of the game the Chinese are also quite willing to play hard ball. That aint balance.You obviously think I have a hate on for the Chinese. I don't. I don't like their government and how they allow Chinese businesses to steal copyrights, burn contracts and generally use whatever company they do business with and then kicking them aside. That AINT BALANCE. The Chinese business culture and the government backing them ( for most companies in China operate at the pleasure of Communist Party) do what they want, when they want and operate pretty much with impunity. In dealing with nations like Iran, they don't care what we think, or what we want in the west.


You can insult me..say Iam wrong...I don't really give a flying fidoo but spare me your arrogance and knocking what I do for a living. I listen to a lot of talk radio, but I read a lot, every chance I get. I read news on the net, in the paper and on TV when I get the chance. I don't pretend to have all the answers, but I can at least make an argument without your condescending tripe about how stupid the person I am arguing with. I have no idea who you are nor do I have any recollection of anything stupid you have said but I bet if I look, I'll find something. It sounds like to me you have all the answers and we should bow to your wisdom? Not thinking that is a plan mate....

[janvanvurpa]

Well Mate...you are entitled to your opinion. You want to insult me, that's fine too.

AS for the Chinese culture and Balance, I get that Ying and Yang thing. I believe in it but their governement isn't about balance. China needs raw materials in a world that is getting scarce in such things. They are quite willing to pay but if someone wanted to change the rules of the game the Chinese are also quite willing to play hard ball. That aint balance.You obviously think I have a hate on for the Chinese. I don't. I don't like their government and how they allow Chinese businesses to steal copyrights, burn contracts and generally use whatever company they do business with and then kicking them aside. That AINT BALANCE. The Chinese business culture and the government backing them ( for most companies in China operate at the pleasure of Communist Party) do what they want, when they want and operate pretty much with impunity. In dealing with nations like Iran, they don't care what we think, or what we want in the west.


You can insult me..say Iam wrong...I don't really give a flying fidoo but spare me your arrogance and knocking what I do for a living. I listen to a lot of talk radio, but I read a lot, every chance I get. I read news on the net, in the paper and on TV when I get the chance. I don't pretend to have all the answers, but I can at least make an argument without your condescending tripe about how stupid the person I am arguing with. I have no idea who you are nor do I have any recollection of anything stupid you have said but I bet if I look, I'll find something. It sounds like to me you have all the answers and we should bow to your wisdom? Not thinking that is a plan mate....

You don't make an argument, your pour out endless tonnage of baseless opinion very little of it having any connection with reality, and most of it barely re=phrased for AM talk radio.
You claim that I insult you. I didn't.
But let me ask you this: have you considered that the endless made up from thin air crap you write as "fact" and "opinion" is in it boundless absurdity in itself insulting for people to read?

Now, more schooling.
If you can tear yourself away from the AM Radio (don't worry, they'll be there when you get back spewing mindless distractions) and maybe read a bit about China and the Party, you'll see it has been a constant struggle to attain a balance of the various forces within the country and that fight took most of last century. The ways one can describe the power bases varies depending on what you're looking at but there are divisions, serious ones between North and South, between the coastal cities and the inland areas, between the very powerful agrarian or peasant class vs Industrialists, between , 'modernisers" and traditionalists, , between those looking to liberalise and those dinosaurs thinking an iron fist is needed for everything, between municipal governments and county governments and Provincial Governments and between cities and counties and the Central Government, between those who look outside the country and those who focus on internal issues and on and on.
It's ludicrously simplistic to think a hug, diverse country has a single policy and a single purpose as you imply.

As for your job, I have only the impression that you are a truck driver, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's only a few professions I have no respect for (bureaucrats, police, politicians, speculators, insurance and a few other parasitic sorts) so don't be a silly person and attempt to be offended when there isn't anything there to find offense from.

It is your baseless, endless right wing extremist blather which I find insulting.

If I wanted to have endless repetitions of Freerepublic.org world view, I'd log on there.


Seriously, try READING a BOOK or two occasionally, expose yourself to the wider world. Try thinking other than black/white dichotomies.

[Mark in Oshawa]

You don't make an argument, your pour out endless tonnage of baseless opinion very little of it having any connection with reality, and most of it barely re=phrased for AM talk radio.
You claim that I insult you. I didn't.
But let me ask you this: have you considered that the endless made up from thin air crap you write as "fact" and "opinion" is in it boundless absurdity in itself insulting for people to read?

Now, more schooling.
If you can tear yourself away from the AM Radio (don't worry, they'll be there when you get back spewing mindless distractions) and maybe read a bit about China and the Party, you'll see it has been a constant struggle to attain a balance of the various forces within the country and that fight took most of last century. The ways one can describe the power bases varies depending on what you're looking at but there are divisions, serious ones between North and South, between the coastal cities and the inland areas, between the very powerful agrarian or peasant class vs Industrialists, between , 'modernisers" and traditionalists, , between those looking to liberalise and those dinosaurs thinking an iron fist is needed for everything, between municipal governments and county governments and Provincial Governments and between cities and counties and the Central Government, between those who look outside the country and those who focus on internal issues and on and on.
It's ludicrously simplistic to think a hug, diverse country has a single policy and a single purpose as you imply.

As for your job, I have only the impression that you are a truck driver, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's only a few professions I have no respect for (bureaucrats, police, politicians, speculators, insurance and a few other parasitic sorts) so don't be a silly person and attempt to be offended when there isn't anything there to find offense from.

It is your baseless, endless right wing extremist blather which I find insulting.

If I wanted to have endless repetitions of Freerepublic.org world view, I'd log on there.


Seriously, try READING a BOOK or two occasionally, expose yourself to the wider world. Try thinking other than black/white dichotomies.

You just don't like the arguments I have used and that is your issue, not mine. I took insult, damned right I did and I still do.

Your talking about the innerfactions of China is all well and good, I can buy into a lot of that, and I don't think it is black and white inside of China but quit trying to put a spin on them that is they are no different than any democracy. The results don't match your rheteoric. The Chinese Government is very much callous in how it treat's its own citizens (Falun Gong, Tibet, the Uighers) and censors incoming and outgoing internet traffic. The fact they are great capitalists with this disrespect for human rights says to me they are NOT balance.

As for the books, I read about a lot of books, including biographies of Bush, Mulroney, Thatcher, and Clinton. I have not always been a truck driver and once upon a time worked as a surveryor and cartographer. I have grasped that the world isn't black and white but what you have to also grasp is AM radio/sat radio and whatever often have valid points. Whether I listen to Alan Colmes or Rush Limbaugh, either one can have a valid point. You disparage the whole medium because you obviously don't agree with it. That is fine, but your intellectual dishonesty to me is showing. You don't like the argument...you disparage the source. First sign of weakness in any debate....

[Mark in Oshawa]

Just another case of a left wing zealot not wanting to enter a debate. If he had approached me with a more convincing argument, I might have bought into some of it. Now...he goes on ignore.

[janvanvurpa]

Just another case of a left wing zealot not wanting to enter a debate. If he had approached me with a more convincing argument, I might have bought into some of it. Now...he goes on ignore.

You are right, I am in no way interesting in childish, pointless "debate" with you.
You write nonsense totally devoid of any connection to reality.
Pure opinion.
There is no point in "debating" since you are never swayed, never acknowledge a valid point but mainly because your level of 100% subjective "impressions" is on the level of "I like catchup, its better".

No way are you interested in being further informed, weighing what is doubtless new to you information or viewpoints and incorporating the new info or view and by icorporating the info, being changed by it.

Catchup is better.
Unless you like mustard.

[TOgoFASTER]

Nice posts by janvanvurpa.

There has been way too much isolated truck stop hatched 'diplomacy' to last quite awhile.

[Garry Walker]

You are right, I am in no way interesting in childish, pointless "debate" with you.
You write nonsense totally devoid of any connection to reality.
Pure opinion.
There is no point in "debating" since you are never swayed, never acknowledge a valid point but mainly because your level of 100% subjective "impressions" is on the level of "I like catchup, its better".

No way are you interested in being further informed, weighing what is doubtless new to you information or viewpoints and incorporating the new info or view and by icorporating the info, being changed by it.

Catchup is better.
Unless you like mustard.

You really should stop drinking so much.

[donKey jote]

Unless you're still thirsty.
:dozey:

[Mark in Oshawa]

It seems this truck driver has ticked people off.
Oh well..wouldn't be the first time.

I don't have a problem being proven wrong. I do have a problem with a condecending approach to telling me I am wrong. It is the source of some of my ideas that seem to bother people. The thing is...I don't always agree with everything I hear or listen to and I am willing to be convinced. There is just a way to do that...and he didn't do it.

Oh well...people get mad at the likes of Eki or Steve Spackman for their thoughts but it is funny, I get along with both. I can agree to disagree....on this one, I will cease and desist. That said..some of you guys on the other side have just as much "proof" and your talking points as anything I spout and I don't attack then personally....like I said..attacking the debater is the first sign of a losing argument.

[steve_spackman]

It seems this truck driver has ticked people off.
Oh well..wouldn't be the first time.

I don't have a problem being proven wrong. I do have a problem with a condecending approach to telling me I am wrong. It is the source of some of my ideas that seem to bother people. The thing is...I don't always agree with everything I hear or listen to and I am willing to be convinced. There is just a way to do that...and he didn't do it.

Oh well...people get mad at the likes of Eki or Steve Spackman for their thoughts but it is funny, I get along with both. I can agree to disagree....on this one, I will cease and desist. That said..some of you guys on the other side have just as much "proof" and your talking points as anything I spout and I don't attack then personally....like I said..attacking the debater is the first sign of a losing argument.

agreed

i do not agree with what Mark says most of the time but i RESPECT his views.

A few people on this here forum need to chill out and come to terms with the fact that we all have our own views.
lets have a big group hug... :love: there feel better?

[Mark in Oshawa]

Thanks Steve...you come to Canada I will buy you a pint eh? We may disagree...and we may agree, but we at least we can get along.

[steve_spackman]

Thanks Steve...you come to Canada I will buy you a pint eh? We may disagree...and we may agree, but we at least we can get along.

i will take you up on that offer......

[janvanvurpa]

Nice posts by janvanvurpa.

There has been way too much isolated truck stop hatched 'diplomacy' to last quite awhile.

Yep.

And while he, and his ilk keep acting offended and all butt hurt, he still hasn't quite seen that his unmitigated bilge is insulting to any person with a bit of brain still working.

And its so odd that he feels offended when he receives exactly what he shovels forth endlessly.

[Easy Drifter]

Jan: Welcome to the clan of Tony from Fla.
I cannot remember reading any enlightening posts by you. Maybe there have been some but your posts on this thread are insulting and demeaning with nothing except your view of the world to back them up.
I note you include the police as those you have no respect for. That, to me, is a rather disturbing statement.
Sure some are jerks but they put their lives on the line every time they answer a call.
Almost every week I read about some officer or officers risking their lives to rescue people.

[janvanvurpa]

Jan: Welcome to the clan of Tony from Fla.
I cannot remember reading any enlightening posts by you. Maybe there have been some but your posts on this thread are insulting and demeaning with nothing except your view of the world to back them up.
I note you include the police as those you have no respect for. That, to me, is a rather disturbing statement.
Sure some are jerks but they put their lives on the line every time they answer a call.
Almost every week I read about some officer or officers risking their lives to rescue people.


Amazing that so many are cluck-clucking like old washer women when somebody speaks back in an imitation of the style of a lot of the Right-wing extremists.

As for who occupational groups I have no respect for, it was in response tou your buddy's false claim that I was denigrating his occupation, and of course that was totally false. And to some a false accusation is insulting.
Can you not see that his words are consistantly inherently insulting?

Just to illustrate one example, he was ranting about "for most companies in China operate at the pleasure of Communist Party".

Now whatever the hell your politics are or aren't if you are honest you can readily agree that that is a careful choice of loaded words.
It is insulting to pass it off as meaningful because it so loaded. And false.
If his counterpart in China wanted to stop driving trucks and start his own business selling hum bow he'd have to go and get a vendors licence at some stupid bureaucratic office just the same as he would here or in Oshwa or in any other town in the civilised world.

The choice of words is curious "at the pleasure of" . I don't believe that a person who says things like that is interested in dialog, because dialog involves give and take and a certain minimal level of conversational honesty, and more use of phrases indicating where an idea or thought may of originated.
I would have some respect for him if he were to say things in the nature of "I was talking to some guys about what we heard on ....." and at least them we know the source of his errors, but the continual repetition of unfiltered Right wing claptrap repeated as if it were one's own thoughts doesn't engender respect.

Note that the lack of respect for the Police as a occupational group stems not only from person contact, sharing working space with 'em but also from observation of them at work for at least 45 years in at least 20 countries.
I have known decent individuals who worked as Police a few here there, in fact just spent a nice day talking with a cop from some town up in Shenyang Province last July when I was visiting a Buddhist Monastery at Er Mei Mountain but as a system, especially in many parts of the US where the educational requirements are essentially US High School Diploma or equivalent, and maybe some classes at a glorified High School aka Community College, the system is a poor cynical joke.
And Justice, which is the ultimate point of law enforcement, is the farthest thing from the mind of most Cops that I have seen.
I find your statement that you are disturbed about my statement rather disturbing. Crazy

[Easy Drifter]

All I see is another rant with nothing to back it up.
I have not been to China but I have known several Chinese well and one of my best employees was from China. She in particular trusted me and her opinions of communist China are less than flattering, as were the others. All had University degrees and one a Doctorate. Oh and all can and have gone back and forth.
I have also had to deal with Chinese companies and do not have a very high opinion of their leadership. I have worked for a major financial institution and owned and run my own companies one of which involved importing from several African Countries. That is great fun especially when a shipment of live creatures gets stopped at gunpoint on a runway by rebels.
Amount of red tape and licencing depends on the munincipality up here.
Most of my dealings with police have been on this side of the border but I have had no problems with US police when I have been stopped in the US. I have a friend who is a Pittsburgh officer and a university grad. He has been shot once and stabbed twice. My next door neighbor, who just moved, is a cop and well educated.
The vast majority of Cdn. officers are now University grads or have taken 3 years at a college specializing police work. I do not know about the US.
You have no knowledge of Mark's education. I have known a lot of truck drivers and most are very knowledgeable. Some are not.
Insulting someone because they drive a truck is the empitomy of bigotry.
The son of a friend recently graduated from High School with a 96% average. All he wants to do is drive rigs.
I have never met Mark but I do know he reads extensively and listens to all sorts of viewpoints in the US and Canada.
Some of the smartest people I have known have been high school dropouts and some of the most clueless University grads. One Phd. I know is brilliant in her field but outside of it is a complete scatterbrain.
I also read extensively and always have. I read several papers, some that are left wing and some right wing. My favourite paper is right wing but has several left wing columnists. Sometimes I agree with the left but usually with the right but even than I will disagree with some opinions. I like to read several different viewpoints before I decide my position as well as the straight news reports.
We obviously will not agree on anything and I must admit I feel you are an ignorant blowhard.
If you do not like what I say--tough.

[harsha]

China right now is in a similar position Economically as to what the Japanese were in the 80's.

in military,they are second right now only to the US

[Easy Drifter]

And after I just jumped on John with both feet I see on another thread where John, Mark and I all agree. Wonders will never cease.
I still stand by what I said though.

[TOgoFASTER]

Yep.

And while he, and his ilk keep acting offended and all butt hurt, he still hasn't quite seen that his unmitigated bilge is insulting to any person with a bit of brain still working.

And its so odd that he feels offended when he receives exactly what he shovels forth endlessly.


Doug Neidermeyers only play tough when they think the odds are greatly stacked in their favor.

--------------

Jan: Welcome to the clan of Tony from Fla.


That would figure. Does Batista love you too? LOL

[SOD]

Doug Neidermeyers only play tough when they think the odds are greatly stacked in their favor.

L

aint that the truth, Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan, attack all those who cannot defend themselves and who cannot fight back.