Toyota 2009

[ArrowsFA1]

Toyota (http://www.toyota-f1.com) are up next in the F1 launch season. Will this be the year they deliver or will they again show that resources alone cannot produce a winner in F1?

http://www.tf109-premiere.com/

[pino]

Hopefully this year Jarno will fight for the win, it could be cool :D

[ArrowsFA1]

pino...always the optimist :) :s mokin:

[jens]

It's pretty much "now or never" year for T-F1. They can't play the inexperience-card any more. There are great changes in F1, it's their best chance to start shining. With the exodus of several Japanese manufacturers from motorsports, the responsibility of being the saviour of Japanese honour has fallen on Toyota's shoulders. Difficult task, obviously.

For me it's interesting that Toyota has been preparing for the new season under notable secrecy. As much as I know, they had 'secret' test sessions in Bahrain in December with '09-interim car, about which almost no information has been spread, even no photos. I just hope they really have something to hide. :D

Continually Toyota is the only team, who has announced that they'll race KERS-less in '09 and I'm just wondering, how will this gamble pay off. And yet it's also not clear, what were the calculations behind this decision, but we will get to know in the next couple of months.

Important year for Mr Trulli himself too. The 3-year-contract signed back in Summer 2006 will end by the end of 2009. Alas the age is already working against him and as he doesn't have much time any more to wait for a great car and great results, so the phrase "now or never" applies for him perfectly well too. Glock has to show that he is capable of continuing to impress after the promising second half of 2008.

[Knock-on]

Toyota and Man City. Two peas in a pod :)

[pino]

pino...always the optimist :) :s mokin:

They've got the driver, let's hope they will get the car too ;)

[ioan]

They've got the driver, let's hope they will get the car too ;)

You're right, Glock looks like a very promising driver now that he matured enough.

[pino]

You're right, Glock looks like a very promising driver now that he matured enough.

Glock has to beat his Team-mate first, so my money for the win still are on Jarno :p :

[ioan]

Glock has to beat his Team-mate first, so my money for the win still are on Jarno :p :

Oh, sorry, forgot about Jarno! :p : ;)

[pino]

Oh, sorry, forgot about Jarno! :p : ;)

You deserve a ban for that :hmph: ;)

[jens]

Toyota hasn't got just "the driver", but two decent and obviously overlooked drivers. ;) Jarno and Timo may not be the brightest stars in Formula One, but they are competent racers, making up a strong driver pairing and it would be interesting to see them in a top car. The athmosphere in the team seems quite positive. When in December Jarno was talking up chances for '09, then it could be noted that he made a special mention (btw, not for the first time during 08!) to working relationship with Timo and brought it out as an important reason, why the team had been constantly moving forward from 08 and would bring them even to greater success in '09. Now I don't know, how much truth is in it or how much does a driver change influence team's direction, but they really seem to be getting on well.

[Cozzie]

Ok, so livery-wise what are we expecting? Each year we speculate and 'wish' that Toyota would ditch their 2002 look (if they hold on to it for too much longer it will be retro before they run another scheme) but each year little changes. Are we expecting the same again in 2009?

[ShiftingGears]

Ok, so livery-wise what are we expecting? Each year we speculate and 'wish' that Toyota would ditch their 2002 look (if they hold on to it for too much longer it will be retro before they run another scheme) but each year little changes. Are we expecting the same again in 2009?

Yes.

[christophulus]

Ok, so livery-wise what are we expecting? Each year we speculate and 'wish' that Toyota would ditch their 2002 look (if they hold on to it for too much longer it will be retro before they run another scheme) but each year little changes. Are we expecting the same again in 2009?

Red & white are the Toyota colours, and they aren't going to change that unless a major sponsor pays major cash to do so.

I suppose they're thinking along the same lines as Ferrari.. they've had red livery for the past sixty years. The Toyota doesn't quite have the same effect though :p

[Cozzie]

Yeah, I understand that red and white are their colours but you would think that every so often that might alter the appearance of the red and white. It's not the actual colours I'm complaining about, rather the boring way the livery is styled. Even Ferrari change the appearance of their traditional red every couple of years...

[cy bais]

Toyota and Man City. Two peas in a pod :)

Nice comparison :)

[Dave B]

This year's Toyota will be red and white, with a large "Panasonic" logo on the rear wing.

You heard it here first! :p

PS, nice to see that they haven't forgotten Ralf, and every year write his nickname "Denso" on the car in tribute...

[Powered by Cosworth]

Looks very similar to the Ferrari...
I hope the aero restrictions don't mean all the cars look the same :(

http://www.toyota-f1.com/cmn/img/car/tf109/01.jpg
http://www.toyota-f1.com/cmn/img/car/tf109/02.jpg
http://www.toyota-f1.com/cmn/img/car/tf109/03.jpg
http://www.toyota-f1.com/cmn/img/car/tf109/04.jpg

[AndyRAC]

It looks similar to all the other Toyotas. Obviously the dimensions are different, but apart from that, mmmmmmm a conservative car, as usual.

[hatrix]

The sidewing endplates are going to clip something easily. They are even lower than the rather low front wing! And they purposely make them extend further out and lower. I think they have reinforced the front wing pillars as well. May be they are trying to destroy other cars rear tires lol. :cool:

[Knock-on]

Looks very similar to the Ferrari...
I hope the aero restrictions don't mean all the cars look the same :(



http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/448/diapo103qz8.jpg
http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/415/diapo104av1.jpg
http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/3236/diapo107lf5.jpg

They look quite different to me. Nose, sidepods, mirrors, engine cover. Of course, they both have 4 wheels ;)

[wedge]

It looks similar to all the other Toyotas. Obviously the dimensions are different, but apart from that, mmmmmmm a conservative car, as usual.

How can you tell? I'm really dying to know

Last years car was a radical design. One of the things they concentrated on was altering the weight distribution/aero to decrease the aero pitch sensitivity of the car which blighted them in previous years.

[Knock-on]

Ohhhhh, those pictures are rather large. How do you shrink them?

[wedge]

The sidewing endplates are going to clip something easily. They are even lower than the rather low front wing! And they purposely make them extend further out and lower. I think they have reinforced the front wing pillars as well. May be they are trying to destroy other cars rear tires lol. :cool:

Very radical front wing design so far though yet to see what the other teams get up to.

Very aggressive front wing endplates/fencing. Ferrari seem more reliant on the wings/tabs.

Those pillars remind me of the Williams tusk. Doesn't particularly surprise me that we will be seeing high noses to get airflow onto the front splitters.

[BDunnell]

The direct head-on aspect is certainly these cars' best angle, for you can't tell that the wings are so out of proportion with one another.

[ioan]

Nice and clean design! I like it!

It looks like everyone will have those vertical side elements in the middle section.

[Knock-on]

They have managed to make the nose even uglier than the Walrus :(

[Dzeidzei]

I suppose they're thinking along the same lines as Ferrari.. they've had red livery for the past sixty years. The Toyota doesn't quite have the same effect though :p

Thats a small understatement. Ferrari brings to mind red sportcars. Toyota? Rusty ricecups.

:)

[jens]

I would like to clarify the livery stuff a bit, which seems to puzzle many people. Obviously Toyota's design approach is quite "simple", but it has its own strenghts and magic, which are alas not acknowledged. Simple and - as you say "boring" - approach makes this is actually quite understandable and sponsorfriendly. What do sponsors want? That their message reaches the masses as easily as possible. And the Toyota Way of design offers this to them at the best way. I mean you can clearly see for example the word of DENSO, there is no mess around it. It's simple and easily recognizable - opposite to a mix of colours about which people should guess, who or what is behind it. People say that Toyota is often "invisible", but a friend of mine, who subscribes to F1 Racing Magazine, has said that according to their information Toyota has been a Top4 team for several years now in terms of TV-coverage as their livery quite "TV-friendly" and gets quite a lot of coverage. Again beneficial for sponsors.

Anyway, I must admit I liked TF108's livery more, especially the pattern on the nose. I see that they have gone back to the previous nose paintjob, which for me is not so pleasant.

[jens]

They have managed to make the nose even uglier than the Walrus :(

For me the Williams Walrus nose is actually one of the favourites. :p : It's often great to see something radically new and exciting. :)

[truefan72]

looks just like the ferrari.

That's what we are going to get in 2009
16-18 cars all looking the same with different liveries

It looks like Max is getting his wish and creating a spec series

yuck!

[Sleeper]

There's something a bit weird looking about that front nose/wing pillar design and I dont think I like it. The rear bodywork looks rather bulbous compared to the Ferrari as well.

[Sleeper]

The sidewing endplates are going to clip something easily. They are even lower than the rather low front wing! And they purposely make them extend further out and lower. I think they have reinforced the front wing pillars as well. May be they are trying to destroy other cars rear tires lol. :cool:
They're low so that they can generate ground effect from the endplates, somehting that the last raising of the front wings stoped and made them more sensitive to turbulance. Cars 10 years ago had even lower front wings than this.

[rjtart]

I put this together to get a better idea of just how similar the Ferrari and the Toyota are. Not so identical, I think.

[leopard]

Etihad looks stunning, I think deserves more visible place than the plain MUBADALA.

[Knock-on]

I put this together to get a better idea of just how similar the Ferrari and the Toyota are. Not so identical, I think.

Great graphic. Any chance of a front on view?

Ferrari have stuck with a long wheel base but Toyota look to have a lot of weight stuck out the back. With the decreased downforce, is this the right idea?

[ioan]

I put this together to get a better idea of just how similar the Ferrari and the Toyota are. Not so identical, I think.

Thanks,
Assuming both cars have roughly the same overall length, it's obvious that the Ferrari has a much shorter wheelbase.

[Knock-on]

Thanks,
Assuming both cars have roughly the same overall length, it's obvious that the Ferrari has a much shorter wheelbase.

Thats an illogical assumption but possible,

Both cars are lined up at the back and the front wheels are in the same position but the Ferrari nose is not truncated as the Toyota is.

Also, if you look at the front wheels, they are roughly in the same position.

I suggest the 2 pictures are pretty much to scale with the 2 main differences being that Toyota have a stub nose and the Ferrari has a longer wheelbase.

Still, pictures say differently on your web sites ;)

[Sleeper]

Great graphic. Any chance of a front on view?

Ferrari have stuck with a long wheel base but Toyota look to have a lot of weight stuck out the back. With the decreased downforce, is this the right idea?

I dont think the Ferrari has a much longer wheelbase than the Toyota by the looks of things, but it does have a much longer nose cone, which will be to make the most of frontal aero and try to clean up the wake of the front wing, without using turning vanes.

I was surprised at the difference in rear bodywork size, that Toyopta looks positively fat compared to the Ferrari.

[christophulus]

I assumed that as the tyres are the same size on both photos and that they are the only common component (visible :) ) the photos must be to scale, so the assumptions seem pretty reasonable

[ioan]

You guys are right, I tried to do a comparison myself and the Ferrari looks way longer than the Toyota.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3335/3201502066_72d18e2684_o.jpg

[Knock-on]

You guys are right, I tried to do a comparison myself and the Ferrari looks way longer than the Toyota.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3335/3201502066_72d18e2684_o.jpg

Blimey, are you agreeing with me!!!

Think I need a little lay down :)

[christophulus]

You guys are right, I tried to do a comparison myself and the Ferrari looks way longer than the Toyota.


That image seems to suggest the wheelbases are the same but the Ferrari's nose is much longer.. odd.

I haven't seen an equivalent top-down view of the McLaren so can't compare just yet

[rjtart]

Thanks,
Assuming both cars have roughly the same overall length, it's obvious that the Ferrari has a much shorter wheelbase.


I had hoped to approach the comparison photo scientifically, but I couldn't find an overall length quoted for the Ferrari. If you compare the two cars it looks like the Ferrari photo is undistorted. The Toyota, though, has a slight "fisheye" distortion to it. The nose and rear wing probably extend somewhat more than the photo shows. Still, the Ferrari nose is obviously much longer.

I'd like to do a similar comparison with the McLaren, but I haven't seen a similar overhead shot of it.

[ioan]

I had hoped to approach the comparison photo scientifically, but I couldn't find an overall length quoted for the Ferrari. If you compare the two cars it looks like the Ferrari photo is undistorted. The Toyota, though, has a slight "fisheye" distortion to it. The nose and rear wing probably extend somewhat more than the photo shows. Still, the Ferrari nose is obviously much longer.

I'd like to do a similar comparison with the McLaren, but I haven't seen a similar overhead shot of it.

You are right, the Ferrari is obviously longer than the Toyota and even than the McLaren, who seems to be situated somewhere between the two.

I realized that my point about having the same length was wrong when I compared the 2 cars supposing that they have roughly the same width (at the wheels external points).

[ArrowsFA1]

Already new bits not seen at launch are being added:

http://www.autosport.com/gallery/picture_free.php/dir/2009toy1/image/001_CRXXXX-XX001-2

http://www.autosport.com/gallery/picture_free.php/dir/2009jantest1/image/XPB_284787_HiRes.jpg-2

Always hated the look of those engine cover fins :dozey:

[jens]

It looks like the phrase "now or never" in an earlier post about Toyota's 2009 campaign was used with a good reason.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72903
They have to deliver to stay in F1 beyond 2009. The people in the factory must be really working as hard as hell now to keep their jobs!

[ioan]

If they win a race and beat Williams they will be OK. Come 2010 the economical crisis will be pretty much over and Toyota will do OK again in the sales departement. Not to mention that the cost cuts should help to with staying in the F1 business.