Let's hear is for Red Bull for...

[johnny shell]

for having FOUR non-paying drivers.

especially STR. I mean, how many teams that size don't try to go after paying drivers?

I think it's cool that Red Bull hires the best drivers they can afford instead of taking a pay driver

way to go Red Bull!

[futuretiger9]

I agree. It is refreshing to see this, particularly when we hear rumours that Berger and STR are, shall we say, on the lookout for finance. Surely the best way to raise stable finance long-term is to raise your performance by having half-decent drivers in your cars.

It's great to see a company like Red Bull not being intimidated by the big teams, and having REAL ambition. It has been suggested that STR have spoken to some very big name drivers in recent months.

[Storm]

Having real ambition means keeping DC in your team?
Getting Adrian Newey could be considered a step towards that but unless DC is strictly a test driver for a really good car coming next year, he is never going to get you some real cutting edge in the driving department.

As for STR, they must have fished around but ended up with the same driver combo as last year..the much hyped Liuzzi did not do that well in the v10.

[Mikeall]

In the case of Toro Rosso assuming the drivers are Liuzzi and Speed, the kind of are pay drivers its just that their company that has backed their careers owns 50% the team.

[ioan]

In the case of Toro Rosso assuming the drivers are Liuzzi and Speed, the kind of are pay drivers its just that their company that has backed their careers owns 50% the team.

You can't be a pay driver for those who pay you!

[Hawkmoon]

You can't be a pay driver for those who pay you!

That's true but I think the analogy Mikeall made is valid. Are Speed and Liuzzi at STR because of their ability or because Red Bull is trying the cover the investment it has made in their careers? I don't think they have earn't the drive on merit, much like a pay driver doesn't. The only real difference is the direction the money goes.

An article in F1 Racing this months states that Berger approached Mika Hakkinen, Juan Pablo Montoya and Sebastien Bourdais about drives for 2007. JPM and Bourdais were already committed in the USA and Hakkinen proved to be too slow in his McLaren test so nothing has come of the approaches.

If Berger was happy with the drivers he had he wouldn't be looking at other guys. OK, he's looking for a "name" to help with sponsorship but Liuzzi has had time to establish himself and I'm sure Speed would garner more interest from American sponsors than Bourdais, who's French.

[wmcot]

An article in F1 Racing this months states that Berger approached Mika Hakkinen, Juan Pablo Montoya and Sebastien Bourdais about drives for 2007. JPM and Bourdais were already committed in the USA and Hakkinen proved to be too slow in his McLaren test so nothing has come of the approaches.


I can't imagine what JPM would think about driving for STR! I think Mika at STR would be a sad sight for a 2 time WDC.

[ioan]

If Berger was happy with the drivers he had he wouldn't be looking at other guys. OK, he's looking for a "name" to help with sponsorship but Liuzzi has had time to establish himself and I'm sure Speed would garner more interest from American sponsors than Bourdais, who's French.

That's why in 2008 it might very well be Bourdais and Speed.

[Roamy]

speed needs to get on the gas this year and pound the **** out of luzzi. If not he is a good candidate for a top champ car drive!!!!

[Tazio]

Christian Klien would punk either one of these wana be's

[Roamy]

well that may be true - but there is some reason why he got dumped

[Gannex]

Hakkinen proved to be too slow in his McLaren test so nothing has come of the approaches.

I'd heard, Hawkmoon, that Hakkinen had been pretty slow during his McLaren test, but I didn't know whether that was simply because he had not been pushing, and had been cautiously avoiding damaging the car. Did the F1 article shed any light on that? Is our Mika simply past it? Say it ain't so !!!!

[ioan]

well that may be true - but there is some reason why he got dumped

Might be he was to expensive for Berger and that he didn't want to be Mateschitz puppet?!

[Tazio]

Might be he was to expensive for Berger and that he didn't want to be Mateschitz puppet?!
Klien is listed as Honda's Test/Reserve driver! I get the feeling that Honda doesn't really have long term plans for him. Marco has gotten his seat time. (Unless it is a contractual arrangement) I would be interested in seeing him get a chance in a competitive car.

[trumperZ06]

In the case of Toro Rosso assuming the drivers are Liuzzi and Speed, the kind of are pay drivers its just that their company that has backed their careers owns 50% the team.

;) Agree !

IMO... IF SeaBass was available... Liuzzi was gone !!!

Speed's there to help Red Bull sell their brew here in the States.

[Hawkmoon]

I'd heard, Hawkmoon, that Hakkinen had been pretty slow during his McLaren test, but I didn't know whether that was simply because he had not been pushing, and had been cautiously avoiding damaging the car. Did the F1 article shed any light on that? Is our Mika simply past it? Say it ain't so !!!!

Perhaps too slow is being harsh but here's what Berger's quoted as saying:


Berger, then, claims his interest in Hakkinen was merely altruistic. "I rate him as an extremely competitive guy, so we started to talk and discuss if it was the right thing for him to stay in the DTM. I told him that if he was going to the gym and training hard, then he may as well get in a proper car. That was how it all started." - F1 Racing, Feb 2007, Australian Edition, pg 13.

It seems that Hakkinen only got the McLaren test after Dennis got wind of Berger's approach to Hakkinen at the '06 Brazillian GP. The article states:


After all, one can imagine Dennis doing everything in his power to stop a returning Hakkinen becoming anyone else's property.



"Ron picked up on Hakkinen's desire and offered him a car" said Berger at Jerez in December. "So we achieved what we set out to achieve. Mika got a drive at Ron's cost, and that made smile a bit. It woked out quite well. If I'd convinced him to drive a car, then it would have cost me. But Ron ran him, so the problem was fixed."


So it would seem that all the interest in Hakkinen was simply to get him a drive for old times sake. When he didn't blow anyone's door's, any serious interest evapourated. I don't know what they thought would happen. Hakkinen must be a similar age to Schumi and hadn't driven an F1 car in 5 years. Just how quick was anyone expecting him to be?

I think that if Hakkinen had been a bit quicker, Berger would have offered him the drive. Berger needs a big name to draw some sponsor interest and a double world champion would have fit that bill very nicely. I doubt Hakkinen would have taken the drive though, so it's probably a moot point.

Liuzzi and Speed are not Berger's prime option, I think that's pretty clear. Berger's got the old chicken-and-the-egg problem however. He needs a big name to attract the dollars but a big name won't come without the dollars being there first.

[Gannex]

Alright, Hawkmoon, now I get you, but I think you're reading a lot between the lines if you're saying Hakkinen would have loved to have driven for Gerhard Berger, but missed the chance by fluffing his test drive with McLaren. I don't read it that way at all.

What happened was that Mika decided he'd like to try a current F1 car and of course that would be with McLaren. He drove, he enjoyed, he did not break any speed records, or, as far as we know, even push, and he savoured the experience. What he did not do is beg to become a Toro Rosso driver, and get rejected by Berger for having failed his driver's test with Examiner Dennis. That's just anti-Mika propaganda!

[Hawkmoon]

Alright, Hawkmoon, now I get you, but I think you're reading a lot between the lines if you're saying Hakkinen would have loved to have driven for Gerhard Berger, but missed the chance by fluffing his test drive with McLaren. I don't read it that way at all.

What happened was that Mika decided he'd like to try a current F1 car and of course that would be with McLaren. He drove, he enjoyed, he did not break any speed records, or, as far as we know, even push, and he savoured the experience. What he did not do is beg to become a Toro Rosso driver, and get rejected by Berger for having failed his driver's test with Examiner Dennis. That's just anti-Mika propaganda!

No, no Gannex, you misunderstand me. I don't think Hakkinen would have taken a Torro Rosso drive regardless of the McLaren test's outcome.

F1 Racing are seemingly trying to suggest that Dennis only gave Hakkinen the test after learning of Berger's interest and Berger's comments seem to back up that line of thought.

I think Berger's interest in Hakkinen waned after the test produced slow times for whatever reason. Not that Berger had a snowball's chance of getting him anyway because if Hakkinen had been quick I'm sure several teams much further up the grid would have made approaches to the Fin.

I guess the real point of all this is that Berger would rather have a guy five years retired than his current line up. Speed and Liuzzi seem to have a lot of work to do to ensure that their careers don't come to a premature end.