Max preparing for a collapse of Formula One

[ArrowsFA1]

The FIA itself would not be financially disadvantaged by a collapse of Formula One, but it would suffer in other ways. And, in any event, we believe we have a duty to do whatever is necessary to preserve the Championship for the competitors, the commercial rights holder and motor sport generally. We are therefore prepared to act radically. We hope that, notwithstanding the changes which must now be made, all teams which are still in business in 2010 will enter. But as already stated, we will be ready to recognise an independent series should some teams prefer to go their own way.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72644

Why raise this now :confused:

[Mark]

"Take it or leave it; Am I bothered?!"

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72644

Why raise this now :confused:

Because it's a sensible course of action to show that the FIA is acting in good faith?

Because to make such a statement shows that the FIA is not being antagonistic towards FOTA and wants a working relationship?

Those seem to be the very things you have wanted the FIA to be doing, but now you take the opportunity to question it.....

Why?

[ShiftingGears]

Well, out of all this I just want a great motorsport series that interests and excites me.

[Knock-on]

Well, after looking at his latest letter, he seems to be trying to bring it around.

Standard engine and compulsory gearbox / chassis sections / etc may save costs but then he makes things worse than they already are with his about turn on KERS and allowing moveable aerodynamics :crazy:

[BDunnell]

I think Max should say something similar about rallying, given that there has already in effect been a split with the establishment of the IRC. Yet he remains utterly silent on the subject, as far as I have seen/heard.

Well, after looking at his latest letter, he seems to be trying to bring it around.

Standard engine and compulsory gearbox / chassis sections / etc may save costs but then he makes things worse than they already are with his about turn on KERS and allowing moveable aerodynamics :crazy:

Why didn't you notice this part?....

"We wish to develop this list in consultation with FOTA"

Or this?....

"We intend to seek FOTA's help to investigate the use of moveable aerodynamic devices"

He's asking the teams to be involved. Isn't that what you would want?

[Garry Walker]

I think Max should say something similar about rallying, given that there has already in effect been a split with the establishment of the IRC. Yet he remains utterly silent on the subject, as far as I have seen/heard.

IIndeed. But WRC is as good as dead anyway. I blame a lot of that on max. He needs to be punished.

[ShiftingGears]

He needs to be punished.

Ha!

[ArrowsFA1]

Why?
I ask the question because:

1) I don't know the answer
and
2) It seems odd to raise the possibility of "an independent series" (independent of who/what?) at a time when the teams are united under FOTA, are working constructively with the FIA (apparently) to reduce costs and to come up with a viable formula for the future of the sport.

[BDunnell]

IIndeed. But WRC is as good as dead anyway.

Yes, but it then begs the very fundamental question of whether the FIA wants to run a World Rally Championship. Might we be seeing the beginnings of this question in relation to F1, even? It does seem a rather strange statement to make.

[BDunnell]

It seems odd to raise the possibility of "an independent series" (independent of who/what?)...

Independent of the FIA is how I read it.

I ask the question because:

1) I don't know the answer
and
2) It seems odd to raise the possibility of "an independent series" (independent of who/what?) at a time when the teams are united under FOTA, are working constructively with the FIA (apparently) to reduce costs and to come up with a viable formula for the future of the sport.

I took it as an indication that Max is willing to work with the teams now that they are being united and apparently sensible and was therefore was recognising their rights to go their own way.

Surely that is better than threats?

I never bought the idea that Max was the villian and the poor little team owners were being picked on anyway. They were all acting out of self-interest and one-up-man-ship and failed to unite before now. That wasn't the FIA's fault. The only way to rule a rabble is with an iron fist.

Now that FOTA & the FIA are indulging in positive dialogue, a lot of credit for that should be given to the FIA for being positive and behaving in a way which befits a cordial entente.

Alas, it appears that there are some who just can't let go.

It would be nice to hear some acknowledgement that the FIA is acting honourably and is making positive steps to safeguard the sport.....

....instead we get nit-picking from the usual crew.

Thank god FOTA don't take that attitude.

[BDunnell]

It would be nice to hear some acknowledgement that the FIA is acting honourably and is making positive steps to safeguard the sport.....

....instead we get nit-picking from the usual crew.

You call it nit-picking. I call it raising reasonable debating points about what is after all quite a major statement by the FIA President.

Yesterday, in another thread, you criticised someone else on the grounds that you felt they were presenting their opinions as incontrovertible fact. In this instance, I don't believe that your view that 'the FIA is acting honourably and is making positive steps to safeguard the sport' is incontrovertible fact. Personally, I agree that it is trying to make some positive steps, but this doesn't mean to say that I'm right.

You call it nit-picking. I call it raising reasonable debating points about what is after all quite a major statement by the FIA President.

Yesterday, in another thread, you criticised someone else on the grounds that you felt they were presenting their opinions as incontrovertible fact. In this instance, I don't believe that your view that 'the FIA is acting honourably and is making positive steps to safeguard the sport' is incontrovertible fact. Personally, I agree that it is trying to make some positive steps, but this doesn't mean to say that I'm right.

I said it would be nice if it were acknowledged. That's not quite the same as announcing it as a god-given fact.

I thought a journalist would have been aware of the difference?

[BDunnell]

I said it would be nice if it were acknowledged. That's not quite the same as announcing it as a god-given fact.

If people don't want to acknowledge it because they don't agree with it, so be it. That's their opinion.

[Garry Walker]

Yes, but it then begs the very fundamental question of whether the FIA wants to run a World Rally Championship. Might we be seeing the beginnings of this question in relation to F1, even? It does seem a rather strange statement to make.

You raise valid points. What goes in the head of Max Mosley is really a mystery to me and to be honest, I prefer it that way.

It would be nice to hear some acknowledgement that the FIA is acting honourably and is making positive steps to safeguard the sport.....

....instead we get nit-picking from the usual crew.
.

Yeah, the last 6 years FIA has done nothing besides take good decisions to help safeguard Formula 1 and Rallying.

[ArrowsFA1]

I took it as an indication that Max is willing to work with the teams now that they are being united and apparently sensible and was therefore was recognising their rights to go their own way.
That's an interesting take on it, but why would the teams want to go their own way? Why does Max feel the need to introduce that prospect, particularly at this moment in time?

[BDunnell]

You raise valid points. What goes in the head of Max Mosley is really a mystery to me and to be honest, I prefer it that way.

:laugh:

[BDunnell]

That's an interesting take on it, but why would the teams want to go their own way? Why does Max feel the need to introduce that prospect, particularly at this moment in time?

If it exists? Thing is, I see very little evidence of this at present.

If people don't want to acknowledge it because they don't agree with it, so be it. That's their opinion.

Then they are idiots with a grudge.

And that's a fact.

[ShiftingGears]

I think Max should say something similar about rallying, given that there has already in effect been a split with the establishment of the IRC. Yet he remains utterly silent on the subject, as far as I have seen/heard.

Agreed. But I bet he won't.

[BDunnell]

Then they are idiots with a grudge.

And that's a fact.

I don't think it is a fact at all.

[Garry Walker]

I don't think it is a fact at all.

How dare you question Pope Tamburellos point of view?

[Daniel]

I think Max should say something similar about rallying, given that there has already in effect been a split with the establishment of the IRC. Yet he remains utterly silent on the subject, as far as I have seen/heard.

I don't doubt we'll hear the same from Max.


In a couple of years.

[Bagwan]

"We would be ready to recognize another series" seems to be related to giving up the numbers about Ferrari earning $80million more than anyone else for winning .
The money was put in place to scuttle the competing series , taking Ferrari out of the dividing group .

I think it is just a reminder for Luca that they won't offer the extra slice to keep Ferrari on board , as they bit the hand that fed them , figuratively speaking .

And , in that sense , Tamburello's right , it is indeed Max saying that all will be above board in the negotiations .

[trumperZ06]

:dozey: We really don't know about backroom discussions... but it looks like a realistic threat to the FIA's absolute power... may be being formated.

Even acknowledging the possibility of another series replacing the current Formula One setup speaks volumes.

My guess is... Max is trying to remain in the game... even to the point of leaving Bernie out.

Something has caused this... just what... is yet to be determined.

[Bagwan]

Simple , Trump , Max knows that , with all the openly discussed details about the money Bernie earns , and then uses to manipulate the game , that it won't be long before someone asks Bernie whether he only has ideas for how everyone else can tighten belts , or if he will take a pay cut himself .

To have the teams aligned , and especially with the rest comfortable having Luca forefront and at the helm , means that the alliance is truely strong , and the idea of setting up another series could be viable .
To recognize this right off , takes it , as a threat , out of the negotiations , and shows just how geniune the negotiations truely are .

[ioan]

Independent of the FIA is how I read it.

I rather read it independent of F1,FOM, CVC and Bernie, given that the FIA will still 'be ready to recognize' it!

[ioan]

That's an interesting take on it, but why would the teams want to go their own way? Why does Max feel the need to introduce that prospect, particularly at this moment in time?

MONEY is the answer!

[ioan]

My guess is... Max is trying to remain in the game... even to the point of leaving Bernie out.

I agree, that is how it looks!



Something has caused this... just what... is yet to be determined.

Bernie backstabbing him during "MaxGate"?

[Valve Bounce]

Well, out of all this I just want a great motorsport series that interests and excites me.

Have you been to Bathurst yet?

[ShiftingGears]

Have you been to Bathurst yet?

I enjoy V8 Supercars, but the most exciting thing about F1 for me is the brilliant talents of the drivers. V8 Supercar drivers aren't in the same league. Plus, the majority of the V8 races are too short.

[ArrowsFA1]

MONEY is the answer!
Quite possibly. Perhaps Max introduced the prospect of an "independent series" to encourage the teams to split from the current commercial arrangement they and the FIA have with CVC?

[SGWilko]

Bernie backstabbing him during "MaxGate"?

You didn't fall for that choreographed charade did you?

[ioan]

Quite possibly. Perhaps Max introduced the prospect of an "independent series" to encourage the teams to split from the current commercial arrangement they and the FIA have with CVC?

That might be the case.
Max has been supporting cost cutting and a fairer revenue splitting with the teams for a long time already.

[SGWilko]

That might be the case.
Max has been supporting cost cutting and a fairer revenue splitting with the teams for a long time already.

Such a shame all he ever end up doing is forcing them to spend gazillions with every stroke of his pen when re-hashing the rules. Smart thinking there, eh?

[ioan]

You didn't fall for that choreographed charade did you?

Choreographed?!
It was to much even for joke, let lone for a choreographed move.

Bernie was acting on his own and was trying to get F1 completely under his own influence, luckily for us it didn't work out.

[BDunnell]

I rather read it independent of F1,FOM, CVC and Bernie, given that the FIA will still 'be ready to recognize' it!

To me, an 'independent' series means independent of the official FIA one, but you may be right.

[BDunnell]

Quite possibly. Perhaps Max introduced the prospect of an "independent series" to encourage the teams to split from the current commercial arrangement they and the FIA have with CVC?

It's an interesting thought. If so, this would be a very clever and, I feel, potentially positive move, depending of course on the commercial arrangements that come about thereafter.

[ArrowsFA1]

Max has been supporting cost cutting...
I think this is in danger of becoming an urban myth :p Sure, he's talked about costs over the years, but as SGWilko points out, the many rule changes introduced by Max in the same period have cost money not saved it.

In addition it's my opinion that Max (and Bernie) have discouraged small 'privateer' teams (remember the $48m bond required to enter F1), and instead encouraged manufacturers to spend their money in the sport which has had the effect of increasing costs dramatically. Not so very long ago we were seeing annual budgets of $20m, and they're now 25 times that in some cases.

...and a fairer revenue splitting with the teams for a long time already.
Not so sure I've seen many comments from Max on this subject.

[ArrowsFA1]

It's an interesting thought. If so, this would be a very clever and, I feel, potentially positive move, depending of course on the commercial arrangements that come about thereafter.
My concern is we've entered a period of a CART/IRL-type tug of war over the future of the sport and I don't feel too positive about that prospect :dozey:

Perhaps Max, having created F2, is trying to encourage the teams towards an F1 that is shaped along similar lines. Quite how the FIA could extract itself from their arrangement with CVC if that is the case is unclear to me, and whether the teams would even consider going along with it is another question as well.

[ioan]

I think this is in danger of becoming an urban myth :p Sure, he's talked about costs over the years, but as SGWilko points out, the many rule changes introduced by Max in the same period have cost money not saved it.

In addition it's my opinion that Max (and Bernie) have discouraged small 'privateer' teams (remember the $48m bond required to enter F1), and instead encouraged manufacturers to spend their money in the sport which has had the effect of increasing costs dramatically. Not so very long ago we were seeing annual budgets of $20m, and they're now 25 times that in some cases.

Not so sure I've seen many comments from Max on this subject.

I know you hate him, but a he did exactly what I said and there are articles relating that. Don't ask me to give you links, I've got very little time ATM.

[ioan]

My concern is we've entered a period of a CART/IRL-type tug of war over the future of the sport and I don't feel too positive about that prospect :dozey:

Perhaps Max, having created F2, is trying to encourage the teams towards an F1 that is shaped along similar lines. Quite how the FIA could extract itself from their arrangement with CVC if that is the case is unclear to me, and whether the teams would even consider going along with it is another question as well.

The FIA aren't going to do anything with F1 so whatever agreement they have with the FOM or CVC stands. The commercial rights holder's only problem will be that there will be no more teams in their series!

[ArrowsFA1]

I know you hate him...
You're wrong about that. I am, however, critical of much of what he has done to the sport and very dubious about this idea which seems to be around that he is the saviour of a situation which he, in part, created.

...he did exactly what I said and there are articles relating that. Don't ask me to give you links, I've got very little time ATM.
I doubt doubt you, but I'd appreciate those links :)

The FIA aren't going to do anything with F1 so whatever agreement they have with the FOM or CVC stands. The commercial rights holder's only problem will be that there will be no more teams in their series!
But that's a bit like Max saying "it's my ball and I don't want to play anymore." That may work in the playground but I just don't see how the FIA would be able to "drop" F1, leaving CVC with nothing, and create (or support) an "independent series" which to all intents and purposes would be same as the F1 series CVC has an agreement for with the FIA :crazy:

[AndyRAC]

I think Max should say something similar about rallying, given that there has already in effect been a split with the establishment of the IRC. Yet he remains utterly silent on the subject, as far as I have seen/heard.

This is a question that really needs to be asked. All these statements, all with good intentions, of saving F1 - all the while the WRC is falling to pieces. Why wasn't anything done years ago when the warning signs were there?
We need a FIA President who shows more interest to the other non-F1 Motorsports.

[ArrowsFA1]

I doubt doubt you, but I'd appreciate those links :)
I mean I don't doubt you :s mokin:

[Tazio]

Regardless of his past transgressions, Max is showing a steady hand in difficult times. IMHO

[Andrewmcm]

Well if CART has taught us anything it is that teams running a series is a very bad idea. The teams have a common enemy at the moment (FIA/Max/Bernie/economy/whoever) but if they ever got to run the show then the old egos would come out again I'm quite sure....

The FIA could probably get itself out of agreements with CVC by bankrupting F1. The FIA can afford enough clever lawyers to ensure that nothing negative comes its way from such an action - as did Jerry Forsythe and Kevin Kalkhoven when they liquidated CCWS last year (if I remember correctly).

[Knock-on]

Regardless of his past transgressions, Max is showing a steady hand in difficult times. IMHO

I'm not too sure at the moment.

In the old days, Max and Bernie carved up the sport, created their Power Bases and ruled their roost with Bernie being very much the main man and Max being quite happy picking up his backhanders and developing his powerbase in the FIA.

A few years ago, it looked like Max was stepping out of the shadows a bit and now looks like he's achieved a massive "one up" on Bernie.

Max has done an about turn, fallen in love with the teams and left Bernie holding the baby. Max cannot be ousted from the FIA because of how he's structured it and should the teams decide to part from FOM, Max is in an incredibly strong position and Bernie left with nothing.

Rather than a strady hand, he could be described as the hand that rocks the cradle.

Et tu Brute

[ioan]

Et tu Brute

That's exactly what max asked Bernie last year during the MaxGate!

[ioan]

I mean I don't doubt you :s mokin:

That's very nice from you, but it won't give me the time I need to go through a few months of articles. ;)

I'll see what I can do this week end but I can't promise anything.

[Knock-on]

That's exactly what max asked Bernie last year during the MaxGate!

The way they both carved up and have dictated F1 has been decitful and dishonest so I don't expect either of these two Leopards to change their spots.

Personally, I can't stand either of them and think that both are damaging to F1.

The way they both carved up and have dictated F1 has been decitful and dishonest so I don't expect either of these two Leopards to change their spots.

Personally, I can't stand either of them and think that both are damaging to F1.

The teams agreed to the terms and conditions of every Concorde agreement. They knew full well what the deals were.

That is not dishonest or deceitful.

The teams wanted Bernie to be in control of F1 management & finances. They had the chance to form their own series, but that didn't happen. Yes, they now want a bigger slice of the cake Bernie has baked, but the deal they have now they all agreed to.

What Bernie & Max have done in terms of 'damaging' the sport is overwhelmed by how much they have improved the sport. It was amateur, it is now professional.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't be criticised for decisions, but to claim that they have purely damaged F1 is both factual incorrect and pathetic.

[Daniel]

The teams agreed to the terms and conditions of every Concorde agreement. They knew full well what the deals were.

That is not dishonest or deceitful.

The teams wanted Bernie to be in control of F1 management & finances. They had the chance to form their own series, but that didn't happen. Yes, they now want a bigger slice of the cake Bernie has baked, but the deal they have now they all agreed to.

What Bernie & Max have done in terms of 'damaging' the sport is overwhelmed by how much they have improved the sport. It was amateur, it is now professional.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't be criticised for decisions, but to claim that they have purely damaged F1 is both factual incorrect and pathetic.
Wasn't Ferrari one of the teams to agree to that agreement? I smell a squirrel here......

Wasn't Ferrari one of the teams to agree to that agreement? I smell a squirrel here......

Yes, it was. I believe they were the first to sign up.

[Daniel]

Yes, it was. I believe they were the first to sign up.
The risotto thickens.....

[Knock-on]

The teams agreed to the terms and conditions of every Concorde agreement. They knew full well what the deals were.

That is not dishonest or deceitful.

The teams wanted Bernie to be in control of F1 management & finances. They had the chance to form their own series, but that didn't happen. Yes, they now want a bigger slice of the cake Bernie has baked, but the deal they have now they all agreed to.

What Bernie & Max have done in terms of 'damaging' the sport is overwhelmed by how much they have improved the sport. It was amateur, it is now professional.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't be criticised for decisions, but to claim that they have purely damaged F1 is both factual incorrect and pathetic.

Who mentioned the Concord agreement and who said they have purely damaged F1.

Respond to what I write if you wish but writing such nonsense is factually incorrect and ... well, we all know what it is :rolleyes:

[Daniel]

Who mentioned the Concord agreement and who said they have purely damaged F1.

Respond to what I write if you wish but writing such nonsense is factually incorrect and ... well, we all know what it is :rolleyes:
Since when did facts matter? They only seem to matter when you want them to :laugh:

[Knock-on]

Wasn't Ferrari one of the teams to agree to that agreement? I smell a squirrel here......


Squirrels, Risotto? :confused:

Sorry, I seem to be having a little trouble understanding what you're trying to imply?

Who mentioned the Concord agreement and who said they have purely damaged F1.

You had ample opportunity to mention the positive results both Bernie & Max have delivered, but unsurprisingly, you didn't.

You had ample opportunity to acknowledge that the Concord agreement, together with the selling of the TV rights to Bernie, where all verified by either the unanimous agreement of the teams or by the members of the FIA who gave Mosley the go-ahead to do so.

Unsurprisingly, you didn't.

Like I said, pathetic.

[Knock-on]

You had ample opportunity to mention the positive results both Bernie & Max have delivered, but unsurprisingly, you didn't.

If you want to start a thread about the positive input Max and Bernie have brought to F1, then why don't you?


You had ample opportunity to acknowledge that the Concord agreement, together with the selling of the TV rights to Bernie, where all verified by either the unanimous agreement of the teams or by the members of the FIA who gave Mosley the go-ahead to do so.

Unsurprisingly, you didn't.

Again, this has nothing whatsoever to do with the discussion. Why do you insist on taking threads off track with irrellevant facts?



Like I said, pathetic.

Why do you insist on the insults and threats all the time :(

[Daniel]

Squirrels, Risotto? :confused:

Sorry, I seem to be having a little trouble understanding what you're trying to imply?
Your bepuzzlement is reciprocated :)

[BDunnell]

You had ample opportunity to mention the positive results both Bernie & Max have delivered, but unsurprisingly, you didn't.

You had ample opportunity to acknowledge that the Concord agreement, together with the selling of the TV rights to Bernie, where all verified by either the unanimous agreement of the teams or by the members of the FIA who gave Mosley the go-ahead to do so.

Unsurprisingly, you didn't.

Like I said, pathetic.

It is, as I said before, merely another opinion to yours.

[ArrowsFA1]

...the Concord agreement, together with the selling of the TV rights to Bernie, where all verified by either the unanimous agreement of the teams or by the members of the FIA who gave Mosley the go-ahead to do so.
As the issue's been raised, what is the current situation with the Concorde Agreement?

In July Bernie said (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/68834) "We will get the Concorde Agreement signed, which we have been cracking away on for a long time."

Later that month Autosport reported Max saying (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69514) "he would be 'disappointed' if a Concorde Agreement binding all parties was not signed by the autumn".

In November Vijay Mallya said (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72065) "We don't know what shape or form the Concorde Agreement will take in the future...It's better to assume that the current Concorde Agreements will continue the way they are."

The Concorde Agreement signed in 1998, expired at the end of 2007. According to Wikipedia Ferrari, Red Bull, Midland and Williams signed an extension until 2012, while the five GPMA teams signed a document with CVC which would form the basis of the next Concorde Agreement

With the demise of GPMA, and the rise of FOTA, I'd imagine things have changed somewhat but I haven't found anything which suggests a new Concorde Agreement has been signed by all teams to replace the one which expired at the end of 2007.

Does anyone know if a new Concorde Agreement has been signed and is in place :confused:

[ioan]

There is no Concorde Agreement in place since the previous one expired back in 2007.
That is why the teams can pressure Bernie ATM.
And even if there was a new agreement the current exceptional world economic situation can be cited to get out of it or ask for changes to be made.

If you want to start a thread about the positive input Max and Bernie have brought to F1, then why don't you?(

Great, so in a discussion about Max, you don't want to discuss the positive aspects of his presidency. That says it all.



Why do you insist on the insults and threats all the time :(

Because they are deserved.

[Hondo]

All the talk of standardization dismays me. For me, F1 has always been about creativity, innovation, and inventive ways of interperting the rule book. I don't mind teams being allowed to run a customer chassis or a standard engine but they shouldn't be restricted to it either. I would prefer to see restrictions on the materials used in constructing the cars, use of the same fuel the company sells at the pump, and maybe using a tire from any manufacturer that meets the size specifications. Not using carbon fiber would save a bundle of money. Cap the engine size around 2.5 - 3.0 liters in any configuration, v-8, v-12, v-3 1/2. etc. It seems that changes like these would cut costs but still allow creativity. It may also result in technologies that would be of interest to manufacturers for use on road cars.

[wmcot]

All the talk of standardization dismays me. For me, F1 has always been about creativity, innovation, and inventive ways of interperting the rule book. I don't mind teams being allowed to run a customer chassis or a standard engine but they shouldn't be restricted to it either. I would prefer to see restrictions on the materials used in constructing the cars, use of the same fuel the company sells at the pump, and maybe using a tire from any manufacturer that meets the size specifications. Not using carbon fiber would save a bundle of money. Cap the engine size around 2.5 - 3.0 liters in any configuration, v-8, v-12, v-3 1/2. etc. It seems that changes like these would cut costs but still allow creativity. It may also result in technologies that would be of interest to manufacturers for use on road cars.

Stop making sense!!! ;)

[Hondo]

Stop making sense!!! ;)

That was nothing. Imagine how much costs would drop if a team was only required and allowed to field one car. In addition, I don't know if the teams have to pay their own expenses for the fly away races, but that can't be cheap either. Only having 1 car on the grid would go a long way towards settling the team orders debate, although I have no problem with team orders. It is, after all, the team's money thats paying the employees.

[Bagwan]

That was nothing. Imagine how much costs would drop if a team was only required and allowed to field one car. In addition, I don't know if the teams have to pay their own expenses for the fly away races, but that can't be cheap either. Only having 1 car on the grid would go a long way towards settling the team orders debate, although I have no problem with team orders. It is, after all, the team's money thats paying the employees.

Easy now . Don't get carried away .

Bernie pays the flyaway expenses .

One car kinda negates the WCC , as the winning driver would be in the winning car .
And , fielding two cars is not as expensive , per car , as fielding one ; not near .

You've got some good ideas , but , like I said , don't get carried too far down the wrong road , drunk with the power of being the guy who makes the rules . That's the Max way .
Don't go there .

[Tazio]

That was nothing. Imagine how much costs would drop if a team was only required and allowed to field one car. In addition, I don't know if the teams have to pay their own expenses for the fly away races, but that can't be cheap either. Only having 1 car on the grid would go a long way towards settling the team orders debate, although I have no problem with team orders. It is, after all, the team's money thats paying the employees.Your talking about a series that could no longer be a perpetuation of F1, with it's traditions, (wcc) and, form.
Such a radicle change would have to call itself someting other than F1. I'm for trying to keep the series intact.
I have seious reservations that that is even possible! :(

[Hondo]

I would rather see each team with only one car and keep the creativity and innovation than to see two cars per team in a spec series F1 nee CART.

[BDunnell]

That was nothing. Imagine how much costs would drop if a team was only required and allowed to field one car. In addition, I don't know if the teams have to pay their own expenses for the fly away races, but that can't be cheap either. Only having 1 car on the grid would go a long way towards settling the team orders debate, although I have no problem with team orders. It is, after all, the team's money thats paying the employees.

Running just one car could, many feel, have helped Wolf's incredible run in its debut season with Scheckter (though Scheckter now says he'd have liked to have had a team-mate to push him along).

[Mark in Oshawa]

f1 is in a mess now? Bout time they suffered like the rest of the racing world. You could feed a third world country on the money spent by the teams of F1...a totally out of this world display of extravagence that has no connection to the current auto industry or the real world.

I like most of Fiero's suggestions, but I hedge at one car per team.

As for Max and Bernie...may the two of them walk away and leave this series to people who aren't drunk on their own power and fleecing one track owner/promotor after another...I have little or no time for them.

[BDunnell]

f1 is in a mess now? Bout time they suffered like the rest of the racing world. You could feed a third world country on the money spent by the teams of F1...a totally out of this world display of extravagence that has no connection to the current auto industry or the real world.

Precisely. :up:

[AndyRAC]

f1 is in a mess now? Bout time they suffered like the rest of the racing world. You could feed a third world country on the money spent by the teams of F1...a totally out of this world display of extravagence that has no connection to the current auto industry or the real world.

I like most of Fiero's suggestions, but I hedge at one car per team.

As for Max and Bernie...may the two of them walk away and leave this series to people who aren't drunk on their own power and fleecing one track owner/promotor after another...I have little or no time for them.

Mmm, interesting - it must be said - F1 can quite rightly be accused of not living in the real world. Maybe it's about time it was hit with a dose of reality. On the other hand - that is part of it attraction - the OTT Motorhomes, etc all adds to it's 'Glamour' and 'Show'.

Call me naive, but in these troubled financial times - wouldn't it be nice for the Sporting side of F1 to take over for once instead of the constant money grabbing? Yes, I know, a pipe dream.

[BDunnell]

Mmm, interesting - it must be said - F1 can quite rightly be accused of not living in the real world. Maybe it's about time it was hit with a dose of reality. On the other hand - that is part of it attraction - the OTT Motorhomes, etc all adds to it's 'Glamour' and 'Show'.

How long has this been the case for, though? It certainly hasn't always been central to F1's image.

[ioan]

f1 is in a mess now? Bout time they suffered like the rest of the racing world. You could feed a third world country on the money spent by the teams of F1...a totally out of this world display of extravagence that has no connection to the current auto industry or the real world.

Couldn't have said it better! :up:

[wmcot]

...wouldn't it be nice for the Sporting side of F1 to take over for once instead of the constant money grabbing? Yes, I know, a pipe dream.

Yes and Yes. :)

[Garry Walker]

Bernie backstabbing him during "MaxGate"?

How did Bernie backstab him?


That might be the case.
Max has been supporting cost cutting and a fairer revenue splitting with the teams for a long time already.

If he supports cost-cutting, why is he bringing in idiotic rule changes that only cost money?

[christophulus]

Bernie has suggested/argued the fact that teams should expect less of FOM's money, not more due to the cost cuts put in place

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=44938