Cuban Hope

[Roamy]

Well it looks as though we may open talks with Cuba. It would really be nice to bury this hatchet and make friends with this country. The people are wonderful and would really benefit by good relationships with the US and the rest of the free world. Lets hope!!

[Tomi]

Wonder if this means more fenced resorts for the scary people.

[Eki]

Well it looks as though we may open talks with Cuba. It would really be nice to bury this hatchet and make friends with this country. The people are wonderful and would really benefit by good relationships with the US and the rest of the free world. Lets hope!!

On this one we agree. I hope the US would also bury the hatchet with Iran and North Korea.

[anthonyvop]

As we should have buried the Hatchet with Hitler, Stalin and Mao.

[BDunnell]

Well it looks as though we may open talks with Cuba. It would really be nice to bury this hatchet and make friends with this country. The people are wonderful and would really benefit by good relationships with the US and the rest of the free world. Lets hope!!

Quite right. Cuba presents absolutely no threat to anyone any more, no matter how much some blinkered people might disagree with the ideology of its leadership.

[jim mcglinchey]

[quote="fousto"] The people would really benefit by good relationships with the US


love it.

[TOgoFASTER]

As we should have buried the Hatchet with Hitler, Stalin and Mao.

Still pining for the lovefest that was Batista and Vito Mafioso.
Darn murderous dictatorships.


Oh, I think most in the 'free' world already have a relationship with the Cuban nation.

[Woodeye]

As we should have buried the Hatchet with Hitler, Stalin and Mao.

And I thought that you were on the same alliance with Stalin.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Woodeye...that was a marriage of inconvenience. Most people know now that it was a hold your nose and hope kind of thing.

AS for Cuba. As much as people paint me as a right winger, I am of the belief that the problem with Cuba is not so much that Castro was/is a bad guy, but he was a bad guy with Kennedy and the decision to try to normalize relations digs up the skullduggery of the Kennedy myth vis-a-vis Cuba and that scares Democrats and being soft on Communism alienates the extreme right wing and the Cuban emigre community in Miami.

People have to understand that the US's treatment of Cuba is in the end a fight for votes in Florida, one of the most sought after states in any Presidential election (just look at the election in 2000).

Normalizing relations with Cuba is LONG overdue for the US. The fact they deal with China in the manner they do puts paid to any arguement against dealing with Cuba. I suspect if the Cubans in Miami are honest in their thoughts, they would realize that but for years they have been the ones most likely to kick up a storm against the US working with Cuba.

Cuba is a mess and Castro is responsible for it, there is no two ways about it. Not trading with the US doesn't excuse for the deplorable conditions the people there live in but that still doesn't excuse the fact the US cannot run the internal politics of Cuba and shouldn't try to. They actually are still reacting to the heart of the cold war political game they played poorly in 1961 and it is time to let it go...

[Eki]

As we should have buried the Hatchet with Hitler, Stalin and Mao.
I thought you buried the hatchet with Stalin and Mao.

Roosevelt and Stalin:

http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/AD_Issues/amdipl_6/stefan.html

Nixon and Mao:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,501061211-1565584,00.html

Rumsfeld and Saddam Hussein:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

Come on, make friends with North Koreans and Iranians, too. You can do it. Hold your nose if you have to.

[Woodeye]

There's a communist party still alive in China. And still USA is exporting and importing from there all the time. I wonder why. Cuba is poor country too close to almighty USA, that might have to do something with it. :rolleyes:

Cuba hasn't been able to do anything militarywise in ages and there's no real point of having the trade block anymore, or have been in 20 years. USA just have long memory.

Don't get me wrong, I'm against communism in all it's forms. I've been reading the "Black book of communism" lately and going to through all the horrors caused by that sick way of leadership. And Cuba is one example of this. I don't see any reason to see communism as nostalgic and romantic as some people tend to do. I'm sure that Cuba will turn to democratism after Castro dips the brush into sand. Or I at least hope it very much.

[Eki]

There's a communist party still alive in China. And still USA is exporting and importing from there all the time. I wonder why. Cuba is poor country too close to almighty USA, that might have to do something with it. :rolleyes:

Cuba hasn't been able to do anything militarywise in ages and there's no real point of having the trade block anymore, or have been in 20 years. USA just have long memory.


China hasn't kicked the US in the nuts, like North Korea did in the Korean War and Cuba and Iran did in their revolutions. Besides, China is strong. It's not as easily kicked around by the US like Cuba, Iran and North Korea.

[Easy Drifter]

Um. Korea was a UN operation not a US one. North Korea invaded the South. There were fighting troops there from many UN nations. Until China intervened Noth Korean forces had been pushed back to almost the Chinese border.
Which one has a stong economy today and which one is basically bankrupt under an insane dictator?
Any way this thread is supposed to be about Cuba.
Canada's relationship with Cuba has been a sore point between Canada and the US for years.
Eki: Your hatred for the US is clouding your thoughts.

[Eki]

Eki: Your hatred for the US is clouding your thoughts.
Your love for the US is clouding yours.

And don't you think the fact of North Korea being bankrupt is at least partly caused by economical sanctions by the US and others?

And speaking of insane dictators, George W Bush is likely a good match to Kim Jong Il.

[steve_spackman]

Your love for the US is clouding yours.

so anyone who says anything bad about the US, has hatred towards them?

[Jag_Warrior]

And speaking of insane dictators, George W Bush is likely a good match to Kim Jong Il.

With all due respect, Eki, though I have absolutely no love for W. Bush and his band of merry neocon fanatics, even he isn't in the same league with Kim Jong Il.

The Castro brothers are a couple of two bit thugs who have been like flies at a picnic for 50 years. Hopefully Obama doesn't waste too much time or resources worrying about (meaningless) Cuba, when the situation in Mexico is of greater importance to the U.S. and its citizens.

[Eki]

With all due respect, Eki, though I have absolutely no love for W. Bush and his band of merry neocon fanatics, even he isn't in the same league with Kim Jong Il.

That's your opinion, and I respect that, but in my eyes both are the opposite sides of the same coin. Both want to things go their way or no way at all. Neither one is willing to give up an inch.

[Easy Drifter]

Eki: I do not 'love' the US. We (Canada) has had its share of disputes with them and recently. I disagree with Iraq. I agree on Afghanistan.
Through racing and another hobby/business I have spent a lot of time in the US. I like most Americans. Sure some are jerks but so are some Cdns. You probably consider me one of those. Some people in the UK are jerks. The vast majority are not. It applies to all countries.
I do not like your politics but you are not a stupid person.
I was a Director of and later President of a major hobby group consisting of almost a 100 clubs in the Americas but mostly US. They elected a Cdn. President.
I also wrote for magazines on that hobby as a professional. ie I got paid. The US publications paid a heck of a lot better than the Cdn. ones did.
By the way no matter what you think of US elections George Bush (both) were elected by a vote. Kim Jong II sure wasn't.
I don't think you can call George W, a dictator. If he was he would not be being replaced by Obama.
Now I am shortly going to go watch Canada's Jr. hockey team whup the a-- off Russia, I hope.
PS. We beat the US 7-4. It was a heck of lot closer than the score shows.

[BDunnell]

Woodeye...that was a marriage of inconvenience. Most people know now that it was a hold your nose and hope kind of thing.

AS for Cuba. As much as people paint me as a right winger, I am of the belief that the problem with Cuba is not so much that Castro was/is a bad guy, but he was a bad guy with Kennedy and the decision to try to normalize relations digs up the skullduggery of the Kennedy myth vis-a-vis Cuba and that scares Democrats and being soft on Communism alienates the extreme right wing and the Cuban emigre community in Miami.

People have to understand that the US's treatment of Cuba is in the end a fight for votes in Florida, one of the most sought after states in any Presidential election (just look at the election in 2000).

Normalizing relations with Cuba is LONG overdue for the US. The fact they deal with China in the manner they do puts paid to any arguement against dealing with Cuba. I suspect if the Cubans in Miami are honest in their thoughts, they would realize that but for years they have been the ones most likely to kick up a storm against the US working with Cuba.

Cuba is a mess and Castro is responsible for it, there is no two ways about it. Not trading with the US doesn't excuse for the deplorable conditions the people there live in but that still doesn't excuse the fact the US cannot run the internal politics of Cuba and shouldn't try to. They actually are still reacting to the heart of the cold war political game they played poorly in 1961 and it is time to let it go...

A very good post, but I disagree with one comment in it, namely 'the decision to try to normalize relations digs up the skullduggery of the Kennedy myth vis-a-vis Cuba and that scares Democrats'. While I am all for debunking myths about Kennedy, who has very little record to speak of, I don't see much evidence of the left being scared to normalise relations with Cuba. It has always seemed to be the right who have been vehemently against this.

[Drew]

The people are wonderful and would really benefit by good relationships with the US and the rest of the free world. Lets hope!!

Fancy a Cuban wife? Yeah I want in on that too

[Eki]

By the way no matter what you think of US elections George Bush (both) were elected by a vote. Kim Jong II sure wasn't..
Neither was Queen Elisabeth II. She inherited her position from her father like Kim Jong Il. Different countries have different customs. Besides, I don't believe George W Bush could never have become the President if his father wasn't a former president too.



I don't think you can call George W, a dictator.


No, not a dictator, but I'm concerned about his sanity as much as you're concerned Kim Jong Il's sanity.

[Easy Drifter]

You are reaching Eki. Queen Elizabeth does not have any real say in governing the UK.
You did call George W. Bush a dictator.

[Eki]

You are reaching Eki. Queen Elizabeth does not have any real say in governing the UK.
You did call George W. Bush a dictator.
He isn't a dictator in his own country, but he's a world class dictator. Nobody outside the US can stop him and he answers to no one outside his own country. For example, he could have vetoed the decision to invade Iraq, but he didn't, he was all for it and nobody could stop him, not the UN, not the Pope, not even common sense. And nobody outside the US was even allowed to vote him. That's one sign of a dictator too. If the US wants to lead the world, they should let the world take part in the US presidential elections. With power comes responsibility, with global power should become global responsibility, but it doesn't.

[Garry Walker]

On this one we agree. I hope the US would also bury the hatchet with Iran and North Korea.

As history has shown, diplomacy, negotiations and giving in always works well with extremists.



And speaking of insane dictators, George W Bush is likely a good match to Kim Jong Il.

What a retarded statement.


Fancy a Cuban wife? Yeah I want in on that too

Get a blonde cuban wife, I recommend.


He isn't a dictator in his own country, but he's a world class dictator. Nobody outside the US can stop him and he answers to no one outside his own country. For example, he could have vetoed the decision to invade Iraq, but he didn't, he was all for it and nobody could stop him, not the UN, not the Pope, not even common sense. And nobody outside the US was even allowed to vote him. That's one sign of a dictator too. If the US wants to lead the world, they should let the world take part in the US presidential elections. With power comes responsibility, with global power should become global responsibility, but it doesn't.

Your hatred for america and bush has reached new lows.

[jso1985]

Your love for the US is clouding yours.

And don't you think the fact of North Korea being bankrupt is at least partly caused by economical sanctions by the US and others?

And speaking of insane dictators, George W Bush is likely a good match to Kim Jong Il.

Maybe they are bankrupt because they spend zillions in weapons?

Making note that I hate Bush, and I even celebrated with a beer when Obama won the elections, he's far from being a dictator nor a match to Kim Jong Il IMO.

I understand you hate the US Eki, but you shouldn't certainly think your enemy's enemies are your friends.

Castro and Jong Il have done plenty of atrocities that shouldn't be forgotten just because they are aganst the USA...

And I will celebrate with 2 beers the day Cuba becomes a democracy or the day Chavez dies!(no that will a six-pack)!

[jso1985]

As for the thread topic...

I have always thought that the Castro regime is actually benefited from the US sanctions, it helps them to keep the "victim" image they give to the world and their people and helps too to keep cubans isolated from the world(and specially from personal-freedom ideas)

So I'm all for a normalisation of the US-Cuba relations.

[Easy Drifter]

Gary: Naturally in line with Eki's usual clearheaded unbiased opinion all US Citizens should be voting in the Finnish elections if they vote in US elections! :rotflmao:

[Eki]

Gary: Naturally in line with Eki's usual clearheaded unbiased opinion all US Citizens should be voting in the Finnish elections if they vote in US elections! :rotflmao:

We don't interfere much with the politics outside our own country and don't send our troops to fight in foreign countries, if we did, then it would be fair for all those affected to vote in our elections. Finnish presidential elections is comparable to governor elections of Alaska. Even I don't like Sarah Palin, I wouldn't be interested in voting in Alaskan local elections. I could be willing to let the Americans to vote in the EU elections in exchange though.

[Jag_Warrior]

Finnish presidential elections is comparable to governor elections of Alaska. Even I don't like Sarah Palin, I wouldn't be interested in voting in Alaskan local elections. I could be willing to let the Americans to vote in the EU elections in exchange though.

If we duct taped her and stuffed her in a wooden cargo box, would you be willing to keep Sarah in a Finnish prison for say... 4 years? I'm sure that Obama wants to run against her in 2012. But in the meantime, many of the rest of us don't want to hear anything else about her.

[Eki]

If we duct taped her and stuffed her in a wooden cargo box, would you be willing to keep Sarah in a Finnish prison for say... 4 years? I'm sure that Obama wants to run against her in 2012. But in the meantime, many of the rest of us don't want to hear anything else about her.
I don't know, but we could let her land on one of our airports on her way to some country that accepts prisoners with no questions asked, let's say like Poland. It's known that a CIA airplane, probably containing prisoners from Afghanistan stopped in the Helsinki-Vantaa airport, but Poland is known to have secret CIA prisons.

[Garry Walker]

We don't interfere much with the politics outside our own country and don't send our troops to fight in foreign countries

America is doing a good thing. They got rid of Saddam. Removed Taliban from power.
Let me rephrase it all. They are doing a thing that in idea is good, but they haven`t done it as well as they should have.

[Mark in Oshawa]

A very good post, but I disagree with one comment in it, namely 'the decision to try to normalize relations digs up the skullduggery of the Kennedy myth vis-a-vis Cuba and that scares Democrats'. While I am all for debunking myths about Kennedy, who has very little record to speak of, I don't see much evidence of the left being scared to normalise relations with Cuba. It has always seemed to be the right who have been vehemently against this.


Mr. Dunnell. Democratic administrations have made all sorts of nice noises towards Cuba. Carter talked to Castro. As did Clinton. Clinton played hardball and gave the little orphaned kid who arrived as a boat person BACK to his father in Cuba. They are great at making noises about normalcy with Cuba but in the end they didn't do a damned thing that actually meant much with Cuba. I suspect Obama is making a lot of noise and will look at the electoral map and realize he doesn't want to alienate the Cuban Emigre community.

[Mark in Oshawa]

We don't interfere much with the politics outside our own country and don't send our troops to fight in foreign countries, if we did, then it would be fair for all those affected to vote in our elections. Finnish presidential elections is comparable to governor elections of Alaska. Even I don't like Sarah Palin, I wouldn't be interested in voting in Alaskan local elections. I could be willing to let the Americans to vote in the EU elections in exchange though.

Eki...Finland couldn't do a damned thing to interfere in another nation anyhow. The point is moot. The Finn's do the Scandnavian thing and stay neutral. That is fine.....but superpowers do things that effect change even without trying....

That said, you want to give everyone a vote in other nations where you DON'T pay taxes? That is utter nonsense but it is the kind of socialist wooly headed thinking you are famous for.