Without Pension, NASCAR Stars Forgotten

[Hoss Ghoul]

Article about Sam Ard and NASCAR's lack of a pension system for its drivers. Mentions charity work done by Kevin Harvick, Dale Earnhardt Jr. and Tony Stewart for some old racers.

http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20070206/45c80b50_3421_13345200702062011249176

[harvick#1]

like them or hate them but Stewart and Harvick and alot of others are classacts.

Stewart annual gives 1 million to the Victory Junction gang, and even offered to give the Million he won back to the IROC to help try and save the series.

[muggle not]

jeff Gordon has helped finance a Children's Hospital among other things.
http://www.independenttribune.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=CIT%2FMGArticle%2FCIT_BasicArti cle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149192220579&path=!news

Back on topic though. I think it is a shame that the drivers don't do more for those that paved the way for them and did not reap the benefits. I am a believer in a pension system. Course most of today's drivers don't want one as they are making a killing as is and don't need it.

[dwboogityfan]

I know Rusty strongly believed in the pensions issue and I'm amazed that something hasn't been set up by now. Was reading about Jerry Nadeau the other day and find it extremely unfortunate that NASCAR has contributed so poorly to his medical bills considering he was injured at a NASCAR event. I know the drivers are aware of the risks but I think NASCAR should take care of them alot better than they do.
To me this is just another example of NASCAR not caring as much as it should about the drivers (and pit crews). I still can't believe that the sport doesn't have a safety team to administer medical treatment at every race. Would have thought they would have learnt from IRL and CART by now who have saved a number of drivers lives with the speed of their medical response.

[oldhippie]

its sad the drivers have no retirement plan
a percentage of the points fund could finance a proper retirement program

[SmokeFan20]

Yeah. Real heart breaking that millionaires don't have a pension fund :bigcry:

Ask GM & Ford about how their pension plans worked for them.

[IMSAFAN1]

It' seems that NASCAB tries to come across with this family image. To them drivers are expendable. The only thing that NASCAB really cares about is the dollar that's going into their pocket. It's not up to NASCAB to be paying out money to help injured drivers. Drivers have contracts with their teams and have insurance policies in place in case something happens. Without an organized drivers union a pension plan won't happen. Boy can you imagine a drivers union in NASCAB? These drivers are being paid alot of money to be the flavour of the week for NASCAB. I have no sympathy for the people out there who are saying that the coverning body should help out an injured driver. A driver accepts resonsiblity the moment he gets a race licence.

NASCAB is not in the business of paying out money...they are not an insurance company. I don't like Nascab nor I want to understand why people are so attracted to this spec racing series. But people get your head out of your butt and don't feel sorry for these very overpaid taxi drivers when they get themselves injured. It's part of the sport.

[RaceFanStan]

The drivers who finish 25th or worse most every week do need some kind of plan for the future.
The top money-making drivers should be on their own but something should be done for the rest of the drivers.
An early disability plan should also be part of the package.

Jerry Nadeau will never drive a racecar again & he will be lucky to have much of a career on a crew.
Jerry Nadeau's once glowing future became a memory due to a bad life-threatening crash.
There should have been a plan in place to assure Jerry some financial security.
Jerry Nadeau had no plan except to be a successful Cup driver but a bad crash ended that possibility. :s

[SmokeFan20]

It' seems that NASCAB tries to come across with this family image. To them drivers are expendable. The only thing that NASCAB really cares about is the dollar that's going into their pocket. It's not up to NASCAB to be paying out money to help injured drivers. Drivers have contracts with their teams and have insurance policies in place in case something happens. Without an organized drivers union a pension plan won't happen. Boy can you imagine a drivers union in NASCAB? These drivers are being paid alot of money to be the flavour of the week for NASCAB. I have no sympathy for the people out there who are saying that the coverning body should help out an injured driver. A driver accepts resonsiblity the moment he gets a race licence.

NASCAB is not in the business of paying out money...they are not an insurance company. I don't like Nascab nor I want to understand why people are so attracted to this spec racing series. But people get your head out of your butt and don't feel sorry for these very overpaid taxi drivers when they get themselves injured. It's part of the sport.

You could care less about the topic in hand. All you care about is getting some jabs in at "NASCAB".

[IMSAFAN1]

listen i do care about the subject....I just don't think we should be crying the blues for these drivers....a very close friend of mine was an IMSA champion and a 3 time 24 hours of Daytona winner invested wisely and made his money. He had a very bad crash but never went to IMSA and asked for money. NASCAR is not responsible for paying out money to help cover medical bills.

[muggle not]

"We" pay out money for our Congressmen's retirement and medical insurance. Why can't a small part of the money "we" pay to attend races, etc be put into a fund for a small retirement for those less fortunate and that have medical bills. It would be a very, very, small token of all the money raked in by Nascar. Maybe some of the year end points payout could fund it.

[Sparky1329]

As the sanctioning body NASCAR could and should take a small percentage of their profits to set up a retirement/disability fund for the drivers. I commend those drivers who feel a sense of responsibility and respect for those who came before them and made their participation possible.

[Sandfly]

I am a proffessional guy in my own business - and quess what, nobody pays into my pension and nobody pays for my health insurance. I am grateful to be able to make money but it is my responsibility to pay for my insurance - I have a Health Savings Account - cheaper than group insurance - and an IRA.

Peolple need to start looking after themselves, and stop expecting some company or the government to do it for them - like being paid to do the job isn't enough???

[IMSAFAN1]

let's see these "good ole boys" go and set up a driver's union and have a pension plan set up. they should go and ask NASTYCAB to have a proper safety crew in place. If them good old boys have a union then they can go to NASCAR and ask for certain things..like a pension plan. Nascar is in the entertainment business...they're not in the business of giving money to drivers who get themselves hurt. go to your employer and ask him/her for money because you got yourself injured...LOLOL. I really dislike NASCAR and it's complete backwards principle way of thinking. Let's see if the drivers have a union and decide to walk out on strike. Nascar(WWF on wheels) should be giving money out to the Jerry's of the racing world...he should have invested wisely in case something did happen.

[muggle not]

I am a proffessional guy in my own business - and quess what, nobody pays into my pension and nobody pays for my health insurance. I am grateful to be able to make money but it is my responsibility to pay for my insurance - I have a Health Savings Account - cheaper than group insurance - and an IRA.

Peolple need to start looking after themselves, and stop expecting some company or the government to do it for them - like being paid to do the job isn't enough???
And do you pay into your Congressmen's pension plan. If so, why? Seems like it is against your principles.

[Hoss Ghoul]

I think some of you are missing the point of this thread, and definetly didn't read the article.

The point wasn't that current drivers need a plan, as that is largely a non-factor with the greater access they have to insurance and huge salaries/winnings. As was pointed out in the article.

The point was that older NASCAR drivers, many of whom had their careers ended early w/out proper(largely unavailable at the time) insurance are in bad shape financially, and perhaps NASCAR should do something to help these early drivers out.

An excerpt:

Few in NASCAR are arguing for a fund to help today's drivers, who make millions from team contracts and even more from race purses and merchandise sales. Jeff Gordon, the sport's all-time money leader, has won a record $82,366,716 through 14 full seasons and isn't sure what the responsibility should be.

"We don't want to make NASCAR go broke like some other companies out there with pension plans have done," said the four-time Nextel Cup champion. "We all need to be responsible for our actions."
But if NASCAR wants to compete with other major sports, Gordon said drivers are going to ask for similar benefits.
"We are now competing with the NFL, basketball, the NHL," Gordon said. "And so, should we be compared to them on every level? And when it comes to this subject, there is no comparison. I mean, I don't even think we are on the board."

Old-timers have lobbied for years for some sort of fund to help repay the men, like Ard, who contributed to the sport and now are struggling to make ends meet.
"It would almost cost nothing," said Jack Ingram, the 1985 Busch champion. "It wouldn't be many people that's not wealthy that contributed a lot to this sport, but they're ... destitute. (Ard's) a NASCAR champion; he's living in a trailer house. It shouldn't be that way."

[muggle not]

I think some of you are missing the point of this thread, and definetly didn't read the article.

The point wasn't that current drivers need a plan, as that is largely a non-factor with the greater access they have to insurance and huge salaries/winnings. As was pointed out in the article.

The point was that older NASCAR drivers, many of whom had their careers ended early w/out proper(largely unavailable at the time) insurance are in bad shape financially, and perhaps NASCAR should do something to help these early drivers out.

An excerpt:

Few in NASCAR are arguing for a fund to help today's drivers, who make millions from team contracts and even more from race purses and merchandise sales. Jeff Gordon, the sport's all-time money leader, has won a record $82,366,716 through 14 full seasons and isn't sure what the responsibility should be.

"We don't want to make NASCAR go broke like some other companies out there with pension plans have done," said the four-time Nextel Cup champion. "We all need to be responsible for our actions."
But if NASCAR wants to compete with other major sports, Gordon said drivers are going to ask for similar benefits.
"We are now competing with the NFL, basketball, the NHL," Gordon said. "And so, should we be compared to them on every level? And when it comes to this subject, there is no comparison. I mean, I don't even think we are on the board."

Old-timers have lobbied for years for some sort of fund to help repay the men, like Ard, who contributed to the sport and now are struggling to make ends meet.
"It would almost cost nothing," said Jack Ingram, the 1985 Busch champion. "It wouldn't be many people that's not wealthy that contributed a lot to this sport, but they're ... destitute. (Ard's) a NASCAR champion; he's living in a trailer house. It shouldn't be that way."

Yeah, I agree. obviously, drivers like Gordon, Harvick, Stewart, etc do not need a pension. However, some of the oldtimers probably could use some help. Perhaps Nascar should look at using some of the year-end popints money for helping those oldtimers and the ones in dire need.

[Lee Roy]

Are all of you just a bunch of star struck teen-agers???? Why just your driver heros? What about the Crew Chiefs, mechanics, fabricators, engineers, car owners and the rest of the people in NASCAR???

[call_me_andrew]

Are all of you just a bunch of star struck teen-agers???? Why just your driver heros? What about the Crew Chiefs, mechanics, fabricators, engineers, car owners and the rest of the people in NASCAR???

As much as I agree with you, I would like to take this in a different direction.

Drivers are not the employees of NASCAR. They are employed by their team owners and not NASCAR. NASCAR does not pay the drivers to compete. Winnings go to the team owner and usually the driver gets a cut plus a regular salary.

I would now like to remind everyone of the difference between rich and wealthy. Jeff Gordon is rich and Rick Hendrick signs Jeff Gordon's paycheck; therefor, Rick Hendrick is wealthy.

[Sandfly]

And do you pay into your Congressmen's pension plan. If so, why? Seems like it is against your principles.

Sure is. But in the US - you pay your taxes and the Governmemnt gets to decide what they spend it on. I don't like it - but that is not the same as the private sector.

I am sympathetic to the case of the older drivers who did'nt get the big payday, but still. we have to get over the idea that somebody owes us all these perks just because we are lucky enough to work for them - and get paid. In the case of NASCAR - they are not even the primary employer.

Time to take care of yourself - And yes that applies to the Congressman too.

[stereokarter]

Besides Jerry Nadeau, can you list drivers of old that are in need?

Establishing a data base of career NASCAR competitors who are in poor health and/or dire straights would be a first step toward remedying this shameful situation.

And the drivers of to-day could establish a Foundation type fund to attend to issue.

This goes beyond the adversarial philosophies of 'take care of oneself' vs. 'form a Union' as written above.

Modern era (post 2000) drivers have, as part of their contracts adequate protections, insurances, and investments to void the need for a 'Union'.

But the needs of drivers of days gone by that need assistance i.e. Nadeau, should be addressed.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Well, the last time I looked, The Frances are one of the wealthiest families in the US. They did that by sheer business smarts, sticking to a plan and creating a wonderful sport out of the dirt the cars raced on, but at some point, they do owe something to the Sam Ard's, the Wendell Scott's, the Dave Marcis's, the James Hylton's and the many others who ran and didn't win championships. The thousands who have toiled away in pit crews and shops are different in the sense no one paid to see them. It is the drivers who often sacrificed any hope of a real job to race. They gave up everything in a way some of the fabricators and mechanics and pit crew do not. Which isn't to say they don't matter, but it is the drivers who built the empire that made the France Family rich. It is time they found a way to look after those who have been left by the wayside financially.

Do racers owe some responsibility to put money aside for the future? Yes, they do, but you know racers, every dime goes towards getting that ride, building that next car, making that next race. The Mechanics, fabmen, engine builders and the like all work now in a business where they can make a good wage, put money into 401K's and not make the same financial sacrifices that the drivers often do.

I would love to see the France's be pro-active and put together a NASCAR pension fund based on the number of events raced and disqualify those who have made more than enough money over the years ( how this will all will work I would leave to the accountants). I would love to see NASCAR look after the guys who got hurt performing before the hundred thousand at the track and the millions on TV. No other sport is as antiquated in how it treats its retirees as NASCAR does, and that is something considering the NHL used to be the gold standard for dumping on its ancient stars.

NASCAR would freak if the drivers formed a Union, but at some point, the Frances are just asking for trouble from their drivers if something isn't figured out. Sam Ard deserves better and so does Jerry Nadeau.

[TheDJ]

I think some of you are missing the point of this thread, and definetly didn't read the article.

The point wasn't that current drivers need a plan, as that is largely a non-factor with the greater access they have to insurance and huge salaries/winnings. As was pointed out in the article.

The point was that older NASCAR drivers, many of whom had their careers ended early w/out proper(largely unavailable at the time) insurance are in bad shape financially, and perhaps NASCAR should do something to help these early drivers out.

An excerpt:

Few in NASCAR are arguing for a fund to help today's drivers, who make millions from team contracts and even more from race purses and merchandise sales. Jeff Gordon, the sport's all-time money leader, has won a record $82,366,716 through 14 full seasons and isn't sure what the responsibility should be.

"We don't want to make NASCAR go broke like some other companies out there with pension plans have done," said the four-time Nextel Cup champion. "We all need to be responsible for our actions."
But if NASCAR wants to compete with other major sports, Gordon said drivers are going to ask for similar benefits.
"We are now competing with the NFL, basketball, the NHL," Gordon said. "And so, should we be compared to them on every level? And when it comes to this subject, there is no comparison. I mean, I don't even think we are on the board."

Old-timers have lobbied for years for some sort of fund to help repay the men, like Ard, who contributed to the sport and now are struggling to make ends meet.
"It would almost cost nothing," said Jack Ingram, the 1985 Busch champion. "It wouldn't be many people that's not wealthy that contributed a lot to this sport, but they're ... destitute. (Ard's) a NASCAR champion; he's living in a trailer house. It shouldn't be that way."

Thank you for reposting this HG... I have heard the same issues are at stake for the older IndyCar drivers, too... it really is a shame that the heros that MADE the sport we all love are the ones suffering now... kudos to the current drivers who have stood up to try to make a difference.

[IMSAFAN1]

You guys still haven't got it....These drivers are not employed by NASCAR. Nascar has no reason to set up anything for the drivers. They won't get envolved in those issues. The drivers should get together and have a NASCAR Drivers Association like they have in hockey. Then they can go and fight for pensions...look at what the NHL players went through to get a better say in their future. Nascar will control the drivers like the old NHL owners controlled the players until something gets done.

[call_me_andrew]

The drivers should get together and have a NASCAR Drivers Association like they have in hockey.

They tried that once. Drivers formed a union to boycott the inagural race at Talladega for fear that the track was too fast for the tires of the day. NASCAR filled the race with scabs to show they don't need the drivers. The driver's union had disbanded within days of that.

[IMSAFAN1]

that was then...things are so much different now with all the money on the line. Today's driver is alot smarter when it comes to the business of racing. They should form some sort of an association just to protect themselves from the evils of Nascar. When NASCAR sees their money makers starting to boycot races because the drivers aren't happy with they way they're being treated or because the drivers want to have some more say in how things are run....Nascar will take notice. See these drivers can be replaced.

[Bob Riebe]

They tried that once. Drivers formed a union to boycott the inagural race at Talladega for fear that the track was too fast for the tires of the day. NASCAR filled the race with scabs to show they don't need the drivers. The driver's union had disbanded within days of that.
First time I ever heard the drivers who ran in NASCARS other series, or were merely independants, competeing against factory teams as scabs.
I wonder if they knew they were such a low class act; of course the way NASCAR treated them, maybe they did.

[jslone]

You want another driver,I give you Robby Gordon as an owner/driver,also Dave Marcus(sp)