Carlos Slim buys Honda F1; Button and Senna are '09 drivers

[Ranger]

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-12/28/content_10569498.htm
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/007200812281560.htm

Looks like a done deal now (thought the confirmation deserved its own thread :) ).

[Valve Bounce]

This is interesting. I'd like to know the extent of technical support Honda will be providing.

[Azumanga Davo]

This is interesting. I'd like to know the extent of technical support Honda will be providing.

Use the computer software to generate data on packing their suitcases into their runaway Accord I imagine... ;)

[aryan]

Nearly everyone is basing this on the La Stampa report. I hope it is genuine. However, even the AFP is reporting it... so there is a good chance that it is.

Senna and Button. With a team which will either carry the name of one of Slim's businesses, or a telco.

Sounds good to me. Roll it on...

[Nikki Katz]

I think that although at this stage he seems like the most likely buyer, this is all a bit premature. Only one source is saying that the deal is finalised and awaiting conformation, which implies that it probably isn't yet.

[ArrowsFA1]

Honda Racing are in talks with four potential buyers including wealthy Mexican businessman Carlos Slim, autosport.com has learned, but no deal has yet been completed.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72581

[inimitablestoo]

The thought has struck me that someone has misinterpreted a report that Honda's best hope of rescue is slim ;)

[CNR]

i know it is the silly season but how safe is honda

International Herald Tribune, France - 3 minutes ago
Mexico's Slim denies bid for Honda Formula-1 team (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/12/29/sports/CAR-F1-Slim-Honda.php)
Slim's family dismisses report of Honda Formula 1 purchase (http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/americas/news/article_1450543.php/Slims_family_dismisses_report_of_Honda_Formula_1_p urchase_)

[52Paddy]

Regardless of it being silly season at the moment, I still feel uneasy about Barrichello's situation. Look like it might be a quiet exit for him, during the off-season. :(

[Valve Bounce]

Just wait till you read it in The Bild or News of The World, then you know it is confirmed. :p :

[Tallgeese]

I wonder would Honda continue as engine suppliers?

[philipbain]

I wonder would Honda continue as engine suppliers?

It was established pretty much as soon as Honda announced that they were pulling out of F1 that the team were likely to continue in any new guise with Ferrari power, giving that Ferrari have spare capacity since Force India moved to Mercedes power and Ross Brawn's links to Ferrari.

[Hondo]

I'm surprised that a billionaire, said to be the second richest man in the world, would be dumb enough to buy a Formula 1 team. Maybe he wants to be a millionaire.

[Valve Bounce]

I'm surprised that a billionaire, said to be the second richest man in the world, would be dumb enough to buy a Formula 1 team. Maybe he wants to be a millionaire.

:up:

[Mach24]

Honda Racing deny reports billionaire Carlos Slim is ready to take over the team
Honda Racing have denied that they are in talks with Mexican billionaire Carlos Slim regarding a potential takeover, with team principal Ross Brawn dismissing the rumours as "pure speculation".

By Tom Cary

Reports over the weekend suggested that Slim, the world's second richest man behind American investor Warren Buffett, had finalised a contract to take over the Brackley-based team, who have been left without a backer since the departure of Japanese car manufacturer Honda earlier this month.

Slim, who is reputedly worth $60billion thanks to his substantial influence over the telecommunications industry in Mexico and much of Latin America, was said to have visited Brackley in his private helicopter before Christmas.

And Italian newspaper La Stampa wrote on Saturday that Slim had agreed a deal that would see the team line up on the grid in 2009 with Englishman Jenson Button and Bruno Senna as their drivers.

But Brawn told Telegraph Sport on Sunday that, while talks are ongoing with "a number of interested parties," speculation concerning the Mexican billionaire is wide of the mark.

"We would love it if it were true," Brawn said, "but it's pure speculation from various members of the media. It's just been one of those rumours which has developed a life of its own."

However, Brawn stressed that discussions were ongoing with a number of other parties and stressed that the team, who have continued to develop their 2009 car, werestill an attractive proposition to potential investors.

"There has been a huge amount of interest," Brawn said. "It's now got to the stage where we need to filter out the serious from the not so serious. We're all hopeful that something will happen and we're anxious to turn up the wick again in the new year."

Time, though, is of the essence. Brackley's 700-odd staff are serving their statutory 90-day notice period. Brawn, though, insisted that the team could limp through to the season opener in Melbourne on March 29.

He said: "We haven't really lost anything yet as it has still only been a few weeks. Everything is in place although we have had to turn down various programmes.

"We have enough funding to get us through to Melbourne and we still have a competitive package."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mot...-the-team.html

[jens]

Too many contradicting rumours. I guess we just have to wait for a bit longer. Obviously there are some discussions, but some issues about a takeover haven't been clarified yet.

[BDunnell]

I'm surprised that a billionaire, said to be the second richest man in the world, would be dumb enough to buy a Formula 1 team. Maybe he wants to be a millionaire.

Or maybe he is embarrassed by being the world's second richest man.

[Dzeidzei]

I'm surprised that a billionaire, said to be the second richest man in the world, would be dumb enough to buy a Formula 1 team. Maybe he wants to be a millionaire.

Why not? Seems like a fun hobby if you can afford it.

I´d do it. I´d be happy with a few hundred M dollars so there would be money to spend on F1.






Wouldnt hire Bunsen though. Im not stupid.

[markabilly]

Wouldnt hire Bunsen though. Im not stupid.

careful, if it were not for lewis, the brits would be burning down your house....but the truth can hurt worse than a lie, sooo OUCH

[call_me_andrew]

Why not? Seems like a fun hobby if you can afford it.

I´d do it. I´d be happy with a few hundred M dollars so there would be money to spend on F1.

If I were going to spend a few hundred million dollars on racing, Formula 1 is the last pace I would take my money. The whole series is going to spend the next 3-4 years in a state of flux between medals, KERS, slicks, and wings of varous sizes.

[Bagwan]

OK , Mr. Slim .
Half a dozen billion is enough to buy the whole damned thing .

How be we buy it , and fix it ?

You've got the tech crew to take it to the next level , as far as TV coverage goes .
We've got the ideas on what the viewing public wants to see .

It is a winning approach to marry the fan base to the governance of the sport .
We want fair racing . We want to know the players , and know that they all have a chance at the prize .
We want technical innovation , but not so much as to preclude the human factor .
We want the classic tracks back .

It's do-able , but , maybe you want to wait for a bit , to see the price go down further .
Get back to me .

[Bagwan]

I just read on Grandprix.com , that Michael might be one of the bidders .
The article states there may have been as many as 25 inquiries , with 5 or 6 being considered serious enough to pay attention .

While he might have the coin , he is expected to be fronting or looking to front a bid , rather than sinking his own cash .
It makes some sense , when you figure the Brawn factor , and that they need an engine with which to run . Ferrari would be the likely choice , if any of this has merit .


I think Warren Buffet , the richest guy , should get in here .

What do you say , Warren ?
We could make the cars out of hemp , and save the damned planet .
How's that for ironic ? The most disgustingly ostentatious display of opulence turns a corner and creates technology to help the world .

I fear it's only a guy like you , with a move as profound as this , who could keep F1 justifiable .

[goodf1fun]

As We Say In Greece : Mpourdes

[anthonyvop]

Honda Racing deny reports billionaire Carlos Slim is ready to take over the team
.................................................. .................................................. ..................................................
gh funding to get us through to Melbourne and we still have a competitive package."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mot...-the-team.html

Link doesn't work.
When was that article posted?

[wmcot]

I think Warren Buffet , the richest guy , should get in here .


Or, how about Jimmy Buffet? :)

[trumperZ06]

Or, how about Jimmy Buffet? :)

:D Much more likely than that old guy, Warren.

;) Give Jimmy a few Margaritas and ANYTHING'S POSSIBLE !!!

[tolis]

As We Say In Greece : Mpourdes
+1000 mpourdes

:) :) :)

[jens]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72629

Interesting interview with Brawn, which actually creates a lot of questions and uncertainties.

He mentiones that the main priority is to save the jobs at Brackley, not his own job - is it a hint that (some of) the potential new owners are interested in putting their own people to the leading positions of the Brackley outfit, which could mean that Brawn has to step down? (obviously Fry so too)

In December Brawn was still talking that ex-Honda is going to win races in 2009. Now he is admitting that it's gonna be a "difficult" and a "transitional" year - pretty much as expected, I'd say.

It looks like Honda won't give their engines, which means that even rebadged engines might be out of question - or at least this is how I interpret the quote. Does it mean Honda's KERS won't be used either? If we combine these factors, then no surprise this is certainly gonna be a difficult season. Ferrari engine or not, Magnetti Marelli is struggling with KERS...

Interesting that Brawn has denied the Slim rumours...

[CNR]

In December Brawn was still talking that ex-Honda is going to win races in 2009. Now he is admitting that it's gonna be a "difficult" and a "transitional" year - pretty much as expected, I'd say.

http://www.motorauthority.com/f1/ferrari-confirms-honda-engine-offer_5925.html
Ferrari confirms Honda engine offer (http://www.motorauthority.com/f1/ferrari-confirms-honda-engine-offer_5925.html)

"They have asked us whether we would be able to provide them with engines, and we said yes,"

[52Paddy]

Thats good news. :up:

[Valve Bounce]

Thats good news. :up:

Anything referring to Honda and linked to the words good news is an extreme aberration.

[ArrowsFA1]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72629

He mentiones that the main priority is to save the jobs at Brackley, not his own job - is it a hint that (some of) the potential new owners are interested in putting their own people to the leading positions of the Brackley outfit, which could mean that Brawn has to step down? (obviously Fry so too)
Hard to imagine anyone taking over the team and not wanting to keep someone with Brawn's track record :dozey:

Hard to imagine anyone taking over the team and not wanting to keep someone with Brawn's track record :dozey:

On that we agree, but then we are not meglomaniacal billionaires, (unfortunately, because it looks like fun!), who are, let's face it, about the only people likely to purchase the team.

Abramovich was daft to let Mourinho go, but he did.

[52Paddy]

Anything referring to Honda and linked to the words good news is an extreme aberration.

But, in all seriousness, it is a good thing that Ferrari are willing to supply. I would say it makes life a little easier on the team, having that cushion to fall back on. That elusive buyer is still their burden but, if its going as well as Brawn says, then Honda just may make it to Oz.

[Valve Bounce]

But, in all seriousness, it is a good thing that Ferrari are willing to supply. I would say it makes life a little easier on the team, having that cushion to fall back on. That elusive buyer is still their burden but, if its going as well as Brawn says, then Honda just may make it to Oz.

Just as a matter of interest, can anyone remember which team came last in 2008 and what engines they were using? (Super Aguri not counted, of course).

[ioan]

Just as a matter of interest, can anyone remember which team came last in 2008 and what engines they were using? (Super Aguri not counted, of course).

Don't know never had to read the standings under 3rd for a long time! :D
Guess which team came first in 2008 and what engines were they using! :p :

[Valve Bounce]

Don't know never had to read the standings under 3rd for a long time! :D
Guess which team came first in 2008 and what engines were they using! :p :
ioan, I've got some good news and some bad news for you. Which would you like first?

[christophulus]

Veering back onto the topic at hand, Prodrive/David Richards have ruled out buying Honda

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72672

Apparently the budget cuts don't go far enough. Makes you wonder how they expected to run a team before hand..

[gloomyDAY]

Anyone who buys Honda's F1 outfit needs to fire Fry if they want to succeed. Allowing Brawn to stay on the team would be the most beneficial move that the potential owner can make.


Veering back onto the topic at hand, Prodrive/David Richards have ruled out buying Honda

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72672

Apparently the budget cuts don't go far enough. Makes you wonder how they expected to run a team before hand..Richards ticks me off! I'm hating myself at the moment for ever taking a picture with that son-of-a- at WRC Mexico (like taking a picture with the devil). He goes from being on one side of the fence to another in a split second. Make up your mind, punk. McLaren #2 team didn't workout, but before the customer car issue arose David didn't have any issues the cost cutting measures in F1. Also, I think I'm still a bit angry over the FACT that Richards allowed SWRT to decline over the past few years until Subaru eventually had to leave.

[Bagwan]

Pitpass has it that Fry , himself , is in the list of potential buyers , and that he is the reason some have dropped from the bidding .
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=36805

[ioan]

Pitpass has it that Fry , himself , is in the list of potential buyers , and that he is the reason some have dropped from the bidding .
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=36805

In this case bye bye f1 team, bye bye Jenson & whoever would have been 2nd driver.

[trumperZ06]

;) Richards sums it up...

"Honda Formula One not viable... at moment".

:dozey: Richards admits having discussions at one stage about aquiring Honda's F-1 opperation...

but a lack of willingness by Richards mideast backers to fund the project have torpedoed Pro-Drive's ambitions.


Current economic conditions are making it difficult for existing members to justify remaining in Formula One.

It's hard to imagine a new entry in todays market.

[ArrowsFA1]

Ferrari have all but ruled out supplying engines to Honda Racing in 2009, should the Japanese manufacturer find a buyer to save the team.
Honda Racing sporting director Ross Brawn, Ferrari's former technical director, confirmed last week that he had contacted the Italian team to enquire about a supply of customer engines.
But Ferrari's team principal Stefano Domenicali appeared to dismiss the suggestion at the launch of the Scuderia's F60 on Monday: "I can tell you about the chances of giving Honda engines... the likelihood is close to zero."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72738

[ioan]

That's bizarre.
Ferrari's communication people confirmed it not so long ago that Ferrari would happily supply "Honda" with the engines that Force India will not need anymore.

[Bagwan]

That's bizarre.
Ferrari's communication people confirmed it not so long ago that Ferrari would happily supply "Honda" with the engines that Force India will not need anymore.

Here's some wild speculation from the bagwan's crystal ball :

Domenicalli has heard the reports from the media , and perhaps others from within , that the negotiations are not being staged fairly , as we have heard that Nick Fry is in the fold , himself , to head a take-over effort of his own .

The ball shows that , if Fry was not involved , the chances of a Ferrari power plant would be much greater than the stated close to zero figure .

Ross , as I recall , used the term "we" , a lot less in his most recent interviews , and some speculated he might not be there in the next configuration .
He used warm terms for his relationship with Maranello , and this leads to questions about whether Ferrari's Domenicalli might balk at the idea that Ross might not be there at the other end to receive the engines .


The bagwan's crystal ball says that Ross will be gone if Nick is in . If Ross is gone , so is the red lump .
Therefore , Honda must say no to nick , and chuck him out the door , or the team , and all it's potential will be lost . Nick would just carry on the same structure of in-fighting and deceit that started before they came in .

[jens]

Nick Fry in the center of the stage, trying to get the maximum power to himself now by trying to become an owner. Previous years have created no confidence in the ability of this man as a leader of an F1 team and Fry himself has continued to play this indistinct role during the sell-out of Team Honda. First he said there were 3 "serious bidders", now the number has suddenly rose to 30 (or 12 if we count "serious" offers). And then in some rumours it turns out he is trying to buy it by himself, making other potential owners less than "serious" ones. Also too many contradicting rumours about possible engine deal. If Nick wants to become an owner, he needs quite several big sponsors. Ironically Honda managed to get rid of all of them under his leadership just two years ago.

[Nikki Katz]

This is starting to look very bad for the future of Honda.

[cy bais]

Maybe this (not finding a buyer soon enough) is why there was an article in which BE suggest that Button take a sabbatical :)

[trumperZ06]

:dozey: A rumor being floated is that

Toro Rosso is waiting to see if Button's available before confirming their second driver.

[Valve Bounce]

This is starting to look very bad for the future of Honda.

The presence of the two words Future and Honda in the same sentence is a contradiction in itself.

[gloomyDAY]

Isn't there a minimum of cars per race? I thought it was contractual between Bernie and the racetracks, right? So what happens if Honda is not able to participate and there are 2 vacated spots?

[ArrowsFA1]

Mercedes motorsport boss Norbert Haug has said the marque could supply the former Honda team with engines in 2009, provided any takeover leaves the team on a sound financial footing.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72755

[Knock-on]

I would love to see Button driving a Ross designed car propelled by the Merc engine.

Then we can really see what he can do :)

I would love to see Button driving a Ross designed car propelled by the Merc engine.

Then we can really see what he can do :)

The successful F1 cars that Ross worked with were all designed by a man called Rory.

[ioan]

I would love to see Button driving a Ross designed car propelled by the Merc engine.

Ross Brawn is not a designer, he's a technical director.
This error is made by so many people who think they know what F1 is about, only to show their ignorance.

[inimitablestoo]

He has been a technical director, he has been a designer. But I'm sure you knew that; wouldn't want to show up any ignorance... ;)

[Knock-on]

Ross Brawn is not a designer, he's a technical director.
This error is made by so many people who think they know what F1 is about, only to show their ignorance.

I would rather be slightly ignorant than a rude little man :p

However, it is true that Ross has not designed the Honda. During his career, he has beeen an engineer, a mechanic and a designer but now he is a figurehead for all these disciplines.

Perhaps a better description would be a Ross inspired car unless you're contending that he doesn't direct and manage the design and engineering process?

[jens]

Apparently the motorbike specialist Nakamoto was the technical director of Honda F1 and as he got sacked quite lately, he obviously has had an important role in the design process of RA109 too, so... it's probably needed to be less cautious before talking up the greatness of Brawn-led team.

By the way, I haven't noticed, but has a new technical director been appointed in the Brackley team after all?

[ioan]

By the way, I haven't noticed, but has a new technical director been appointed in the Brackley team after all?

What for? They would have to pay him/her and they don't have the money, not yet! :D

[ioan]

I would rather be slightly ignorant than a rude little man :p

However, it is true that Ross has not designed the Honda. During his career, he has beeen an engineer, a mechanic and a designer but now he is a figurehead for all these disciplines.

Perhaps a better description would be a Ross inspired car unless you're contending that he doesn't direct and manage the design and engineering process?

Looking at his career he's done a bit of this and that never really specializing in anything, that's why technical director / team manager is what he is ATM.

He sill set the targets and will coordinate the teams that are working on the project, but he will not design the cars. This is my understanding about is job.

[Knock-on]

Looking at his career he's done a bit of this and that never really specializing in anything, that's why technical director / team manager is what he is ATM.

He sill set the targets and will coordinate the teams that are working on the project, but he will not design the cars. This is my understanding about is job.

Isn't that what I said :confused:

[jens]

What for? They would have to pay him/her and they don't have the money, not yet! :D

Isn't it ironic? In a recent interview Brawn said that if an owner is founded, then 09 will be (again!) a transition year and 2010 (finally!!) a year for success. I'm just wondering, how will this success come if actually no-one designs the new car? :p :

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72829

Fry doesn't deny that he is a potential buyer.

On the radio today, an anonymous employee said that he feared that Honda F1 would "become another Rover" where the management would just bleed the money out of it and then leave it dead.

[Valve Bounce]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72829

Fry doesn't deny that he is a potential buyer.

On the radio today, an anonymous employee said that he feared that Honda F1 would "become another Rover" where the management would just bleed the money out of it and then leave it dead.

I didn't know there was a Rover F1 team! :(

[Azumanga Davo]

I didn't know there was a Rover F1 team! :(

BL big Williams sponsor back in the day. :p : Mind you, Rover were probably too busy sorting out many warranties on it's poor cars in the eighties. :D

Nick Fry will ruin everything. I'm even going to go as far as saying his effort will be even more farcical than a certain Italian shoe manufacturer we all know and love... :eek:

[ioan]

Nick Fry will ruin everything. I'm even going to go as far as saying his effort will be even more farcical than a certain Italian shoe manufacturer we all know and love... :eek:

He already ruined everything. Under DR the team achieved 2nd place in the constructors championship in 2004, than DR left and Fry took over and we all know the rest up last December when it was decided that Honda will quit F1.

[Ranger]

He already ruined everything. Under DR the team achieved 2nd place in the constructors championship in 2004, than DR left and Fry took over and we all know the rest up last December when it was decided that Honda will quit F1.

IMO Nick Fry isn't great, but to solely pinpoint the blame to him rather than the decisions of the Honda's Japanese boardroom, who:
- Drove David Richards out
- Drove Geoff Willis out
- Disasterously made Shuhei Nakamoto (a motorcycle engineer) the chief designer for 2007 and 2008, before making him HRC's vice-president

doesn't seem very logical to me. Under him the team actually won a race, mind you.

[ioan]

Under him the team actually won a race, mind you.

We all know that was a mistake of goddess Fortuna.

[Knock-on]

IMO Nick Fry isn't great, but to solely pinpoint the blame to him rather than the decisions of the Honda's Japanese boardroom, who:
- Drove David Richards out
- Drove Geoff Willis out
- Disasterously made Shuhei Nakamoto (a motorcycle engineer) the chief designer for 2007 and 2008, before making him HRC's vice-president

doesn't seem very logical to me. Under him the team actually won a race, mind you.

Nail. Head. Hit.

Fry would have had to be a magician to do something with that mess.

[ioan]

Fry would have had to be a magician to do something with that mess.

Yeah, he better be a good magician cause he clearly is a disaster as a team manager. :p :

[Knock-on]

Yeah, he better be a good magician cause he clearly is a disaster as a team manager. :p : many things culminated in the demise for Honda.

I don't know if Nick was a contributing factor or not. I can only say I think it wrong to put the blame for the Honda situation on his shoulders.

[ioan]

The guy at the top is always at fault for what the ones under him are doing, always was always will be like this.

I don't care if he knows anything about F1 cars, he is a lousy manager.

[Knock-on]

The guy at the top is always at fault for what the ones under him are doing, always was always will be like this.

I don't care if he knows anything about F1 cars, he is a lousy manager.

OK, that's a valid point of view.

I have no knowledge one way or another to justify an opinion on his management ability so I will reserve judgement until I do.

[Dave B]

The guy at the top is always at fault for what the ones under him are doing, always was always will be like this.

True, but with Honda you get the sense that whoever the guy at the top, it's ultimately the boardroom in Japan that make the important decisions - and not always for purely motorsport reasons.

[ioan]

True, but with Honda you get the sense that whoever the guy at the top, it's ultimately the boardroom in Japan that make the important decisions - and not always for purely motorsport reasons.

I think that is our impression, but I have my doubts that the boardroom in Japan are the ones who decide the design of their F1 cars, they might sy how much money the team gets and that heads should roll if things go wrong, but that is it.

The rest is up to Fry.

[Knock-on]

I think that is our impression, but I have my doubts that the boardroom in Japan are the ones who decide the design of their F1 cars, they might sy how much money the team gets and that heads should roll if things go wrong, but that is it.

The rest is up to Fry.

So, you're saying that Nick Fry placed an advert for a Chief designer in Autosport and Shuhei Nakamoto answered :laugh:

The design of the car was by a man with no F1 experience that Honda corporate put in place. How can you blame him for that?

I'm not saying Nick is any good or otherwise. All I'm saying is that he hasn't been given a fair crack at the whip.

[ioan]

So, you're saying that Nick Fry placed an advert for a Chief designer in Autosport and Shuhei Nakamoto answered :laugh:

The design of the car was by a man with no F1 experience that Honda corporate put in place. How can you blame him for that?

I'm not saying Nick is any good or otherwise. All I'm saying is that he hasn't been given a fair crack at the whip.

I'm just saying that because of his poor management the post 2004 Honda F1's were poor and as such the Honda board of directors asked for changes and Fry willingly threw Willis out, otherwise he should have left.
As a result of Fry's failure to come up with anything suitable as a replacement Honda put their best motorsport designer in Willis' place (but allas designing world champ motorbikes isn't the same with designing F1 cars).

Prove me wrong! Than you can continue your false laugh.

[Dave B]

I'm just saying that because of his poor management the post 2004 Honda F1's were poor and as such the Honda board of directors asked for changes and Fry willingly threw Willis out, otherwise he should have left.
As a result of Fry's failure to come up with anything suitable as a replacement Honda put their best motorsport designer in Willis' place (but allas designing world champ motorbikes isn't the same with designing F1 cars).

Prove me wrong! Than you can continue your false laugh.

Another quality bit of debate: here's an assumption, you prove me wrong.

The basic rule of debate is that the burden of proof falls on the person making the claim.

[ShiftingGears]

We all know that was a mistake of goddess Fortuna.

Great way for you to ignore opinions of Fry contrary to yours.


Another quality bit of debate: here's an assumption, you prove me wrong.

The basic rule of debate is that the burden of proof falls on the person making the claim.

Exactly.

[Knock-on]

The basic rule of debate is that the burden of proof falls on the person making the claim.

PML.

Where's the Proof. LINK PLEASE

:laugh:

[jens]

Nick Fry may not be responsible for every negative aspect in the demise of Honda F1, but considering his position in the team (manager), it's a fair assumption that at least some of the blame has to lie on him. If the Brackley team goes defunct and NF becomes jobless, do you think does any other F1 team would really consider hiring him considering his track record?

When results of a team are poor, then...
- Drivers can escape criticism by saying that the car is **** and they can't take more out of it.
- Designers can escape criticism by saying that they don't have enough resources/whatever to really develop a top machinery.
- But a team principal is responsible for the functioning of a team in general. There are really no excuses - results are the ultimate yardstick for rating.

Honda's HQ's may have had their share of influence in several decisions, but for example if you imagine Flavio being in position of Nick, do you think he would have obeyed to a 'wrong' decision so easily?

[ioan]

Great way for you to ignore opinions of Fry contrary to yours.

:laugh:
Are you trying to say that Button won that race for any other reason that the others dropped out while he was slipping in the car?!

How's life with Santa Claus?! :p :
:rotflmao:

[ioan]

Nick Fry may not be responsible for every negative aspect in the demise of Honda F1, but considering his position in the team (manager), it's a fair assumption that at least some of the blame has to lie on him. If the Brackley team goes defunct and NF becomes jobless, do you think does any other F1 team would really consider hiring him considering his track record?

When results of a team are poor, then...
- Drivers can escape criticism by saying that the car is **** and they can't take more out of it.
- Designers can escape criticism by saying that they don't have enough resources/whatever to really develop a top machinery.
- But a team principal is responsible for the functioning of a team in general. There are really no excuses - results are the ultimate yardstick for rating.

Honda's HQ's may have had their share of influence in several decisions, but for example if you imagine Flavio being in position of Nick, do you think he would have obeyed to a 'wrong' decision so easily?


Nick Fry is a clown and only the nationalistic spirit of some people around here is protecting him.

[Ranger]

Nick Fry may not be responsible for every negative aspect in the demise of Honda F1, but considering his position in the team (manager), it's a fair assumption that at least some of the blame has to lie on him. If the Brackley team goes defunct and NF becomes jobless, do you think does any other F1 team would really consider hiring him considering his track record?

When results of a team are poor, then...
- Drivers can escape criticism by saying that the car is **** and they can't take more out of it.
- Designers can escape criticism by saying that they don't have enough resources/whatever to really develop a top machinery.
- But a team principal is responsible for the functioning of a team in general. There are really no excuses - results are the ultimate yardstick for rating.

Honda's HQ's may have had their share of influence in several decisions, but for example if you imagine Flavio being in position of Nick, do you think he would have obeyed to a 'wrong' decision so easily?

No, he wouldn't.
IMO he would have quit... that's what happened when he had an argument with the powers-that-be at Benneton in the late 1990's.

Honda decided to throw out Richards after deciding the team he built up to success was good enough for full factory backing. It's obvious right there that something wasn't right in that boardroom.


Nick Fry is a clown and only the nationalistic spirit of some people around here is protecting him.
Well I'm Australian. :\

No one is saying he wasn't poor. He just wasn't 100% to blame for Honda's demise due to Honda's boardroom decisions in Japan.

Hell, Honda put him in there in the first place, so even if you don't want to believe anything else they are already partly at fault for that.

[ShiftingGears]

:laugh:
Are you trying to say that Button won that race for any other reason that the others dropped out while he was slipping in the car?!

How's life with Santa Claus?! :p :
:rotflmao:

You ignored most of his post to avoid justifying your opinion. Which was my point.

[jens]

Yep Malllen, I agree that Briatore would have rather quitted than become subservient to the HQ's of a car maker. I also think that Richards was replaced with Fry at least partly because he was too strong of a leader to Honda's liking, although I don't exactly recall the exact reasoning back in 2004 for parting ways.

But I'm just trying to say that this all indicates Fry isn't a strong leader. If he isn't the ultimate decision-maker, then it also means he isn't a proper team principal fulfilling the tasks of this particular job. And that's why he is always regarded as inferior to the Rons, Flavs, Marios and Franks of this world.

[ioan]

Well I'm Australian. :\

Lucky you! ;)


No one is saying he wasn't poor. He just wasn't 100% to blame for Honda's demise due to Honda's boardroom decisions in Japan.

Hell, Honda put him in there in the first place, so even if you don't want to believe anything else they are already partly at fault for that.

Well, 90% of the blame is enough to make a decent person go and hide in a cave for the rest of his lie, instead of wanting to buy the team and thus destroying the chances to have a serious buyer.

[ioan]

You ignored most of his post to avoid justifying your opinion. Which was my point.

I ignore what I don't deem worthy of an answer.

So, you're saying that Nick Fry placed an advert for a Chief designer in Autosport and Shuhei Nakamoto answered :laugh:

The design of the car was by a man with no F1 experience that Honda corporate put in place. How can you blame him for that?

I'm not saying Nick is any good or otherwise. All I'm saying is that he hasn't been given a fair crack at the whip.

Would Ron Dennis have accepted Mercedes Benz choosing the designer of his F1 cars?

Would Flavio put up with the Renault boardroom deciding who would be the designer?

Fry may not of chosen Nakamoto, but the fact that Nakamoto got the job does certainly prove that Fry is not up to the job of being a successful F1 team principal.

The decision to drop Willis may not have been his, but he accepted it. Same with Nakamoto.

[Dave B]

For any Carlos Slim fans out there ( :erm: ) you'll be wanting to know where he spent his money instead of F1. I bet you've all been losing sleep over it!

Well wonder no more: his companies have just confirmed (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/jan/20/new-york-times-confirms-carlos-slim-deal) $250 million of investment in The New York Times.

Phew. Now we know. Glad that's sorted out.

[Valve Bounce]

I ignore what I don't deem worthy of an answer.

...........er, have you read your sig lately?

[ShiftingGears]

...........er, have you read your sig lately?

:laugh:

Well played.

[ArrowsFA1]

Honda Racing have remained silent on reports in the British press on Thursday that the team could receive a government bail-out to ensure they are not closed down.
A story in The Guardian suggested that Honda Racing were in talks with the British government to receive a share of the £2.3 billion bail-out of the car industry that was announced by Lord Mandelson earlier this week.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73044

[ioan]

So, we'll have the first governement run F1 team maybe?!
Everyone welcome team GB, as for Gordon Brown, eh sorry Great Britain! :D

Will the race strategy be decided by the PM or by the House of Lords?! :p :

[ArrowsFA1]

Honda have made it clear that suggestions their Formula One team could receive a government bail-out are totally incorrect.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73054

[inimitablestoo]

It must be backed by the British government, given the speed of that u-turn :D

[ArrowsFA1]

It must be backed by the British government, given the speed of that u-turn :D
:laugh:

[callum122]

Has Honda stated that they posted a large loss? Like Ford revealing they posted a $US14.6 billion loss. I assumed Honda would have no trouble making profits seeing as they are in the same mold as Toyota motor corp.