Why the high street is screwed

[Daniel]

Has anyone here ever actually gone into an electrical store and successfully managed to get a salesperson to move down on a price? :mark:

I've tried three times now with no success

Last year we went into Currys looking to buy a washing machine and knowing exactly which model we wanted and how much it cost online so I asked the salesman what price they could do if we were to pay cash there and then and he said they couldn't go down at all. So we went online and bought one and guess who delivered it? The local bloody currys :crazy:

Undeterred, earlier this year we were looking to buy a fridge freezer and a dishwasher and had a bit over £800 to spend and was happy to pay cash as always and as usual they refused to move at all on price. You would think that he'd have been happy to make a sale but apparently not. So I just went online and got things a crapload cheaper.

Still not having learnt my lesson, today I went into a PC World and attempted to get the salestard to move on the price of a nice 24" Samsung monitor as Santa was rather generous with cash this year. Being the generous fellow he matched the website price which the product would have probably scanned for anyway but not a penny more :mark:

What is it with salespeople? Is it preferable to have the customer walk out of your store having taken 2 minutes of your time while spending nothing or would it be so bad to take a bit of a hit on your margin and make a sale? I honestly would love to support local businesses so that local people can have jobs but this just makes it impossible. Seems I'll be making yet another purchase online and saving myself another 40 pounds or so!

and in other news...... DSG losing money? :eek: Surprise of the year.....

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Business/Currys-Owner-DSG-International-Reports-Underlying-Losses-Of-Just-Under-30m/Article/200811415162846?f=rss

[ShiftingGears]

What is it with salespeople? Is it preferable to have the customer walk out of your store having taken 2 minutes of your time while spending nothing or would it be so bad to take a bit of a hit on your margin and make a sale?

They're banking on palming it off to some other sucker for more $$$ :p :

[Dave B]

Daniel, I used to run Link branches for DSG so I think I can guess what's happened.

Stores obviously have a much smaller amount of stock than the warehouses, especially so-called sale items, and if there's finite supply you want to sell to the customers who will generate most margin.

If, say, I had 10 of the Samsung monitors in stock and knew that they would sell at full price, why would I want to discount one only to risk being out of stock when a sucker comes in later with a bulging wallet?

That said, I do agree with the general observation that many high street stores are staffed by wuckfits.

[Daniel]

Daniel, I used to run Link branches for DSG so I think I can guess what's happened.

Stores obviously have a much smaller amount of stock than the warehouses, especially so-called sale items, and if there's finite supply you want to sell to the customers who will generate most margin.

If, say, I had 10 of the Samsung monitors in stock and knew that they would sell at full price, why would I want to discount one only to risk being out of stock when a sucker comes in later with a bulging wallet?

That said, I do agree with the general observation that many high street stores are staffed by wuckfits.

Makes sense I guess. Though with the sort of people who shop in PC world do you think they're going to take a 1920*1200 24" monitor or a 32" Samsung TV (1366*768) for roughly the same price? :mark:

[Hazell B]

Has anyone here ever actually gone into an electrical store and successfully managed to get a salesperson to move down on a price? :mark:



Hell yes. If they won't move, I don't buy.

You're obviously not very good at striking a deal, or you're not telling the right person how much you're willing to pay. Either way, I've never paid full price once in the past fifteen or so years, or I've walked away with a full priced item and free things with it.

It's as Dave said, they won't move on fashionable items that are low on stock in store, but they will on everything else. Tuesdays are also the best day to barter - as it's end of week accounting in most stores ;)

[Daniel]

Hell yes. If they won't move, I don't buy.

You're obviously not very good at striking a deal, or you're not telling the right person how much you're willing to pay. Either way, I've never paid full price once in the past fifteen or so years, or I've walked away with a full priced item and free things with it.

It's as Dave said, they won't move on fashionable items that are low on stock in store, but they will on everything else. Tuesdays are also the best day to barter - as it's end of week accounting in most stores ;)

Perhaps true Hazell :)

It's just that I'm of the opinion that if the shirt wearing fool doesn't value his job so much as to offer a discount when I say that I'm willing to buy today, willing to pay cash and so on then why should I bother and why should I put money into the pocket of people who want the customer to get down on their knees when I can just go online and get it for much cheaper.

[Hazell B]

So why don't you go online in the first place?

Anyway, when I say not full price, I mean almost certainly lower than online price anyhow. You want to be looking at about 20-30% off, or extras worth the same plus 10%. Mark up is low on laptops, some named types of TV (the ones highly advertised on TV for example) and certain other items, so you can't expect more than 12% off them though.
Cash isn't what they want in shops now, so is a poor bargaining tool. It costs them money to handle, store and bank cash - they'd rather you paid debit card. Cash is exactly what smaller family shops want though.

[J4MIE]

As usual I started my christmas shopping at about 2:30pm on christmas eve, so I went into Edinburgh city centre and went on the lookout for the few things that I needed to get.

2 hours later, not only did the shops not have the items in stock, but the alternatives I chose were overpriced, but hey I can't really argue on christmas eve, can I?

Then I turned around and realised that the bloke standing next to me was in the queue to pay - and then I realised that the queue snaked round the whole of the shop and out of the front door :s So I put the item back on the shelf and gave up and resolved to only do online shopping from now on, where I can sit down with a cup of tea, browse stuff from shops without having to wander around in the cold, not have to put up with mums intent on mowing down huge amounts of people with their pram and then complain that people are in her way, not have to queue up for the pleasure of paying, and not have to carry it back home again. The price of delivery isn't much more than parking :s

No, instead when I stopped to fill the car up on the way home I parked 3 cars away from the door of the Tesco, walked up to their shelf, picked the exact items I wanted at a lower price, self checked out, and walked away. 5 minutes, christmas shopping....done! :up:

Yet they wonder why the high street is going downhill? :\

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Are the Salespeople that work in shops actually 'Salespeople' or just Work Geordies (Assistants)?

I bet most of the staff in shops are just assistants and don't have the authority to knock money off an item. Especially in big chains like Currys.

Family run shops will knock down prices for you. Last year I got over £50 off a £350 guitar in a family-run music shop when I said that I had seen the same model online for £300.

[yodasarmpit]

As can be seen with some of the retail giants going under, they are working on very slim margins with little to no cash reserves.
The reason you don't get that discount is simple, they would quite likely be loosing money by offering it to you at a further discount.

[Daniel]

As can be seen with some of the retail giants going under, they are working on very slim margins with little to no cash reserves.
The reason you don't get that discount is simple, they would quite likely be loosing money by offering it to you at a further discount.

Thing is that looking at the prices other sites are doing the same product for on the internet it's clear that the margins aren't quite as wafer thin as you're saying and if PC World are paying more for their stock than these other sites which are actually quite small then they should be talking to their suppliers about why they're being ripped off.

[Daniel]

I should add that Caroline got a nice bargain yesterday. She got Samba De Amigo and is waving her Wiimote and nunchuk around stupidly :D

Edit: WTF? The ketchup song?

[yodasarmpit]

Thing is that looking at the prices other sites are doing the same product for on the internet it's clear that the margins aren't quite as wafer thin as you're saying and if PC World are paying more for their stock than these other sites which are actually quite small then they should be talking to their suppliers about why they're being ripped off.
You are failing to take into account the massive running cost of maintaining a physical presence on the high street, rent, rates, staff, heating, lighting and they also require warehouses to feed the retail stores.

Your online retailers only have to contend with maintaining the warehouse.

Look at Woolworths, for them to go under after one bad winter shows they were running on very small margins and had no reserve cash, obviously running on massive overdrafts.

[Daniel]

You are failing to take into account the massive running cost of maintaining a physical presence on the high street, rent, rates, staff, heating, lighting and they also require warehouses to feed the retail stores.

Your online retailers only have to contend with maintaining the warehouse.

Look at Woolworths, for them to go under after one bad winter shows they were running on very small margins and had no reserve cash, obviously running on massive overdrafts.


Woolworths were crap though. How is it that other companies which were supplied by Entertainment UK were able to stock the same DVD's and CD's for lower prices than Woolworths were stocking them for? That shows that Woolworths was being badly run. Even before I came to the UK I knew that DSG's stores had a bad reputation for price and for service. Of course that's a bit unfair as not all stores are as bad and there are probably a lot of good staff around like Mr Brockman who are honest, helpful and know their product.

Back in Australia I worked for a large IT company who sold a good range of IT products and maintained a large onsite warehouse so I've got a good idea what the margins are like on products.

Online retailers also have to deal with packaging, dispatching each individual product on it's own rather than using their own truck to take goods to the stores in bulk and they still need to provide customer support at the end of it all.

I'm not saying the high street retailers need to match online retailers for price as this simply isn't viable and is not fair on them, but they do need to compete. If we'd gone with a high street retailer for our fridge freezer and dishwasher it would have cost us an extra £160 + whatever they charge for shipping as well. These weren't your basic products and they certainly weren't cheap units which they only make a few pounds on. Come on..... 80 pounds or 20% more for each appliance is a joke and is laughable. The high street electrical retailers are merely banking on people being too stupid to check online and in an age where money is tight and people are getting smarter with their money it's just silly to treat your customers like that and you're going to go bust. If Currys could make money out of us buying our dishwasher from another site and then shipping it themselves then perhaps they would have made more if they'd moved on the price but hey what do I know? :laugh:

[Brown, Jon Brow]

The High street is a dead duck. And who loves a dead duck? Nobody. Not even its mother, she just flies off depressed.

[Daniel]

So why don't you go online in the first place?

Anyway, when I say not full price, I mean almost certainly lower than online price anyhow. You want to be looking at about 20-30% off, or extras worth the same plus 10%. Mark up is low on laptops, some named types of TV (the ones highly advertised on TV for example) and certain other items, so you can't expect more than 12% off them though.
Cash isn't what they want in shops now, so is a poor bargaining tool. It costs them money to handle, store and bank cash - they'd rather you paid debit card. Cash is exactly what smaller family shops want though.

Ok fair point :p I would have paid whichever way they wanted really.

What I wanted wasn't an incredibly popular item, it is something that they've got a decent margin on based on comparing prices to other sites. It's probably down to my poor bargaining skills of course but you'd think he'd perhaps take the initiative when I said I wanted to buy today if the price was right.

As to why I went into the store when I could buy online cheaper? Well I honestly just want to support people working in a local business and also wanted then convenience of buying it there and then rather than waiting for delivery. But for the price difference I was going to pay I'd rather wait and see what happens to online prices as I don't really really need a new monitor now.

[BDunnell]

Why is the high street screwed? A combination of factors, surely — the convenience and generally good service of online shopping, people being cautious about spending given the current economic circumstances, certain shops having reached the end of their useful lives, and so on. In this economic climate, we shouldn't be surprised that some retailers will fall by the wayside while others carry on. Woolworth, just like Little Chef before it, was somewhere everyone used to go to shop, but those days just passed it by.

[J4MIE]

Woolworth, just like Little Chef before it, was somewhere everyone used to go to shop, but those days just passed it by.

You mean there are people out there that don't need an Olympic Breakfast to start the day? :eek:

[Drew]

Thing is, will anybody miss them?

[Hazell B]

You are failing to take into account the massive running cost of maintaining a physical presence on the high street .....


I think we're all adult enough to know that shops cost money to run - but they also waste huge sums every day by being lazy. That's why Woolworths died a death.

Online 'shops' aren't that much cheaper to run, but they are using more modern methods rather than the Woolies outdated layouts, staffing levels, stock run-ons and so on. For example if I have stock for more than a few weeks and it's not shifting I offer as fat discount (even a loss) simply so it's not taking up space. Woolworths continued to stock items that didn't sell well enough, whereas online retailers do not. Online stores, like me, have limited space for grabbing a customer and are therefore forced to scream "buy this one!" within seconds of a customer's approach.

Anyway, High Street stores offer me a service I like, so the people like me will continue to use them over online stores so long as they keep matching or beating prices. Having said that, I don't buy much at the end of the day!

[Hazell B]

Hahaha! High Streets will be bargained with ....

Binns (House of Fraser) yesterday sold me a Radley bag marked down at £180 for £89. Yes, less than half the sale price :D

It was easy. I looked for a bag I liked, found a single one among groups/sets and offered half the asking price. It was clearly the last in stock, clearly a summer colour and I found the most senior member of staff twenty minutes before closing time.

Ninty one pounds in my pocket rather than theirs! (Although twenty of that was spent on a full price Toseland tshirt in the F1 shop five minutes later :rolleyes: )

[Fred Basset]

Over here, people want to deal deals as they'd rather get the sale than see you walk out. You know how far you can push them pretty quickly

But its ok as BDunnell's in his bunker and he thinks its all rosy over there... :laugh:

[BDunnell]

Yes, hilarious as ever. Happy New Year.

[Fred Basset]

Happy New Year..

We just got a weather alert thru.. temps inc wind chill tonight as low as -30F

Keep all flesh covered :eek:

Oh well, i'll wave it all about tomorrow :laugh:

[BDunnell]

Sorry about the 'hilarious' dig before, by the way. I still disagree vehemently with you, but that was un-called-for on my part.

[Daniel]

Sorry about the 'hilarious' dig before, by the way. I still disagree vehemently with you, but that was un-called-for on my part.
No it wasn't :laugh:

BDunnell doesn't need discounts, he just pulls another ivory backscratcher out of the cupboard because <insert ridiculous reasoning only Fred could think of> :laugh:

Lets not have a proper debate, lets just find someone we don't like for whatever reason and make some silly comment linking them to the demise of a high street brand with a crap business plan :laugh:

Happy new year everyone.

[BDunnell]

No it wasn't :laugh:

BDunnell doesn't need discounts, he just pulls another ivory backscratcher out of the cupboard because <insert ridiculous reasoning only Fred could think of> :laugh:

Lets not have a proper debate, lets just find someone we don't like for whatever reason and make some silly comment linking them to the demise of a high street brand with a crap business plan :laugh:

Happy new year everyone.

I am honoured to be linked to the demise of a high street brand with a crap business plan, thank you very much.

[Daniel]

I am honoured to be linked to the demise of a high street brand with a crap business plan, thank you very much.
Yes yes your sorts in their ivory towers would be happy with that wouldn't they! :p

[BDunnell]

Apparently it's an ivory bunker.

[Daniel]

Apparently it's an ivory bunker.

You're type are so decadent it's probably both.

Well here's to more badly run high street chains going down the drain in 2009! Hurrah!

[BDunnell]

Well here's to more badly run high street chains going down the drain in 2009! Hurrah!

OUT ON THE STREETS, EVERYONE! (Not to shop, obviously.)

[Daniel]

OUT ON THE STREETS, EVERYONE! (Not to shop, obviously.)
The nation is running out of Plasma TV's? Quick! Everyone queue outside your local Comet or Currys like an ignorant pensioner scared for their Government guaranteed savings so you can get a Plasma TV before all those youths with their knives take them.

[Fred Basset]

Well here's to more badly run high street chains going down the drain in 2009! Hurrah!


Ya know.. i decided when i wandered back here to just ignore obnoxious Daniel and his insults but i'll say this.. i bet all the thousands of people who are losing their jobs right now really do appreciate you laughing at them cos thats what you are saying right there.. You really are a XXXXXXXX XXXXX XXXXX of the highest order Daniel

[Daniel]

Ya know.. i decided when i wandered back here to just ignore obnoxious Daniel and his insults but i'll say this.. i bet all the thousands of people who are losing their jobs right now really do appreciate you laughing at them cos thats what you are saying right there.. You really are a XXXXXXXX XXXXX XXXXX of the highest order Daniel
The thing is people still want all the things they want. Yes some jobs are truly going due to the downturn and people not spending as much but with the Woolworths gone in my local high street are people in the town simply not going to buy games, consoles, CD's and so on? Hardly. There will always be a need for a retail presence on the highstreet to sell goods, the thing is these companies need to be well run and need to be competitive or they will go out of business.

If Woolworths had run their business properly then they'd still exist. That's a fact. I'm not laughing at the people losing their jobs either, I'm laughing at the shortsighted and foolish management types who run the companies these people work for.

P.S Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me :laugh:

[Drew]

Jesus christ, chit chat is the new F1 boards :\

[Hazell B]

Lets not have a proper debate, lets just find someone we don't like for whatever reason and make some silly comment .....

Nothing new there, then :rolleyes: