Bourdais considers IndyCar move

[Birdman5700]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72527


The four-time Champ Car champion is still in contention for a seat at Scuderia Toro Rosso next season along with Sebastien Buemi and Takuma Sato, but says he will look to return to the states if he is not retained by the team.

"I'm pretty open," he told Autosport. "Right now I need a good programme and America would be an interesting option.

A return to Bourdais' former Newman/Haas team is unlikely with the team struggling to raise sponsorship for a second car. Graham Rahal is expected to stay on with the team and Justin Wilson has already been told he is free to look for other drives.
If he does come back, who does he drive for Penske (if Helio is cut free), KV or NHL?
And would he, as a four-time champ, be able to lure a sponsors to that team?

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Sébastien should absolutley reunite with NHL. McDonald's could sponsors two cars, they seem to be profiting from the economic slowdown, their sales were soaring in October (8.2%) and November (7.7%).

[The instant classic]

all i can say is....its about time!

[Jag_Warrior]

Why would McDonalds sponsor two cars?

Just curious.

[SarahFan]

Why would McDonalds sponsor two cars?

Just curious.

because at a time when they are the only restaurant in the country actually up in sales....... ( yes, I'm in the restaurant Biz and while that statement might not be 100% acurate, I can tell you they are in fact up while I know of no others that are)....... it would be an opportune time to capitalize on that momentum

[Nikki Katz]

It's a nice thought but I'm a little concerned that he might have left it a bit late. Is he really a sponsor's dream? He doesn't seem to be in F1, I don't know how much more success he'd have than Wilson in the IRL.

[SarahFan]

I don't know how much more success he'd have than Wilson in the IRL.

Why?

he dominated Wilson and has also reguarly won on ovals

[Chamoo]

Why?

he dominated Wilson and has also reguarly won on ovals

He hasn't won a whole lot of ovals. And in CC he always had the best car. I wouldn't rate Justin too far behind Seabass.

I doubt McDonalds will be sponsoring both cars, as rumor has it they won't be sponsoring at all this year. That is why NHL is probably down to one car. Maybe Seabass buys into the team and runs the second car?

[Jag_Warrior]

because at a time when they are the only restaurant in the country actually up in sales....... ( yes, I'm in the restaurant Biz and while that statement might not be 100% acurate, I can tell you they are in fact up while I know of no others that are)....... it would be an opportune time to capitalize on that momentum

I can see your point. I just question whether or not McDonalds would consider sponsoring a second car (or even one car, from some rumors I've read) in the IRL to be capitalizing on their momentum.

We should hear or know something in a couple of months though.

[The instant classic]

i can see McDonalds sponsoring 2 cars, i dont know how much money McDonalds has, but i wolud think they have the money to make this happen, but if Bourdais is not going to be Wilson teammate? wolud McDonalds still sponsor Wilson? or leave him and join with Bourdais? but if McDonalds has to pick just one, lets see who they pick for there big mac driver :D

[Jag_Warrior]

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not saying that McDonalds will or won't sponsor a car (or two) in the IRL. I have no idea. But I do know that it's sponsor exposure value that drives these decisions... and sometimes knowing the man who signs the checks. The Newman Haas connection to open wheel racing, that knew the man who signs the checks, has now passed on. By the data which Champ Car itself released, McDonalds' sponsor exposure value was in the $4-$5 million range in 2007, as best I can remember. With the addition of Indy, it might have been more this season - I haven't seen the numbers (and I doubt we will).

But with no Paul Newman, it'll be interesting to see if the NHL people can make a business case to MCD to sponsor one car, much less two.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I cant see Mickey D's paying for two cars, profit picture aside. They wont get twice the hit from doing that but they will spend twice the money. That said, if Bourdais can get someone to sponsor even part of a season, maybe a partial sponsorship is in the works.

It would be the best thing for the IRL to see Bourdais back.

[The instant classic]

as not a follower of F1 how well was Bourdais doing in F1? befor this indycar talk?

[IWUTitan90]

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not saying that McDonalds will or won't sponsor a car (or two) in the IRL. I have no idea. But I do know that it's sponsor exposure value that drives these decisions... and sometimes knowing the man who signs the checks. The Newman Haas connection to open wheel racing, that knew the man who signs the checks, has now passed on. By the data which Champ Car itself released, McDonalds' sponsor exposure value was in the $4-$5 million range in 2007, as best I can remember. With the addition of Indy, it might have been more this season - I haven't seen the numbers (and I doubt we will).

But with no Paul Newman, it'll be interesting to see if the NHL people can make a business case to MCD to sponsor one car, much less two.

Exactly. There was very little, if any, activation of the sponsorship on McDonalds part, WHILE Bourdais was winning 4 Champ Car titles. I can't see the addition of the Indy 500 being enough to justify the addition of a second car sponsorship. For the 500 perhaps, but not a full season deal.

[nanders]

I know a guy who knows a guy, that says NHL will be one car this year with Rahal and McDonalds.

[SarahFan]

I know a guy who knows a guy, that says NHL will be one car this year with Rahal and McDonalds.

I believe at this point in time that is in fact the case....

[Jag_Warrior]

as not a follower of F1 how well was Bourdais doing in F1? befor this indycar talk?

He wasn't doing that badly. His problem was he had a teammate who began showing his brilliance about 1/2 way through the season. Vettel seems to be on the Hamilton/Alonso/Massa/Kubica level. Bourdais isn't there. But my hope is that Bourdais gets a second season at Torro Rosso. Without Vettel there, and with a year under his belt, his true abilities may show through.

I wasn't a major fan when he was here. But I know that F1 is where he wants to be, so I hope he is able to hang on.

[Nikki Katz]

He wasn't doing that badly. His problem was he had a teammate who began showing his brilliance about 1/2 way through the season. Vettel seems to be on the Hamilton/Alonso/Massa/Kubica level. Bourdais isn't there. But my hope is that Bourdais gets a second season at Torro Rosso. Without Vettel there, and with a year under his belt, his true abilities may show through.

I wasn't a major fan when he was here. But I know that F1 is where he wants to be, so I hope he is able to hang on.
Bourdais wasn't bad at all, but then there were no actual bad drivers last year; the drivers that came across as not being as good as the rest of them were Bourdais and Nakajima.

Bourdais worked well with the old car and was marginally faster than Vettel at the start of the season (as was Liuzzi at the end of 2007 in the dry), also managing to avoid more accidents. But the 2008 chassis introduced part way through the year really didn't fit Bourdais' driving style, whereas Vettel got on very well with it. Once they managed to get 2008 spec Ferrari engines then Toro Rosso were vaulted forward, with Vettel even winning a race. While Bourdais' pace was much better compared to other teams by this point, he was now a long way off his teammate. He suffered some really bad luck in the second half of the season (his car stalling from 4th on the grid putting him a lap down while his teammate won in Italy, and that abysmal stewards' decision to penalise him for Massa driving into him) and he certainly deserves much more than the 4 points that he earned, but F1's a tough sport. He was completely at sea at Singapore, and you'd expect him to have an advantage, it being a street circuit and at night like some ChampCar tracks of past. He's not exactly a sponsor's dream and hasn't been consistently quick enough. Testing has suggested that he's on comparable pace with Sato, who's likely to bring in much more sponsorship money, while both were significantly slower than Buemi, who will likely be in the other car.

I'd love for Bourdais to get another shot at F1, but if there's only 18 cars next year then really he should be the first to go.

[vintage]

First - Bourdais is obviously an excellent driver. But I'm confused about what he brings with him that is going to improve the IRL. He's not the type of personality that's going to put people in the seats, and I'm not clear why we wouldn't be better off with an Indy Lights driver getting the opportunity instead of him. He's basically coming back, not because it's what he wants to do, but because he's out of a job.

Nothing against him, but I would be happier seeing him go have a great life driving a sports car, and maybe giving someone new a chance to drive in the IRL.

[gm99]

He hasn't won a whole lot of ovals. And in CC he always had the best car.

Well, maybe that's because Champ Car didn't run on a lot of ovals during Bourdais' time in the series? Unless I'm mistaken, there have only been seven oval CC races from 2003 to 2007 (two each in 2003-2005, one in 2006 and none in 2007), of which Sebastien has won four (Lausitzring in 2003, Vegas in 2004 and 2005, Milwaukee in 2006). Add to that the sole Indy 500 Bourdais did (but didn't win) in 2005, and you have a 50% victory rate on ovals in open-wheel racing. And of course Bourdais also managed an IROC win at Texas in 2005. So I would say he's got quite a good record on ovals ;)

Wilson by contrast has yet to win at all on an oval...

[djhany]

all i can say is....its about time!


EXACTLY!!! it was clear that SB would burn like a sheet of paper in F1, i mean no wins etc good work though ... for those who love him in order not to burn me hehe :cool:

[Mark in Oshawa]

Whatever one can say about Seabass, charismatic isn't one of those descriptions. I don't think anyone in their right mind can say the IRL needs this guy for his charisma. That said, having an f1 driver come back to the IRL maybe might make someone happy.

He is a nice guy and a pretty good racer but he is another f1 reject at this point and coming back to the States to run OW is like his second option. You do NOT want your series to be someone's second option. That is what galled me about the endless series of Eurotrash weenies that infested CART and CCWS in the final years. We had these guys coming over by the plane load who couldn't find working gigs in Europe and North American drivers such as Alex Tagliani, Patrick Carpentier, Andrew Ranger, Alex Gurney, Jon Fogerty and more being shunted aside or never seeing the cockpits for some Europeans with sponsors. Bourdais at least panned out into being a champioin but that said, the IRL doesn't need him as much as he may need a gig after this year.

[NickFalzone]

Bourdais would be a great addition to the IRL field. Whatever you make of his charisma, there's no mistaking his driving ability. I would not be so quick to judge his talent on one year in F1. He performed average, and may well have been the stronger teammate if they didn't switch cars. As a many time CC champion I'm very curious to see how he'd perform in the unified series, and particularly on ovals.

[underpowered]

Bourdais would be a great addition to the IRL field. Whatever you make of his charisma, there's no mistaking his driving ability. I would not be so quick to judge his talent on one year in F1. He performed average, and may well have been the stronger teammate if they didn't switch cars. As a many time CC champion I'm very curious to see how he'd perform in the unified series, and particularly on ovals.

I dont think he is in the same league as Scott Dixon.

[NickFalzone]

I dont think he is in the same league as Scott Dixon.

Maybe not, but that's the kind of question that would make his inclusion in the series a very exciting one. On road and streets I think SB would be a solid podium driver, as long as he got on a solid team. I do agree that currently, there's not a better all-around IRL driver than Dixon, with Franchitti very close behind.

[SarahFan]

I dont think he is in the same league as Scott Dixon.


and you would be wrong

[nanders]

and you would be wrong

I agree with you Ken, I'd say that Dixion is not in Bourdais' league. And if Seabass would get a Penske type ride it would be difficult for Dixion to match his skills.

[garyshell]

I dont think he is in the same league as Scott Dixon.

You are right. Dixon had one test drive for BMW in formula one and never recieved an offer from ANY tem to drive in the series. So, I would say Seabass is not in the same league as Scott. :s mokin:

Gary

[downtowndeco]

First off I think Sebastion is an excellent driver, so I'd love to see him in the IRL. Kind of a bland personality though so I don't know how much star power he actually brings.

As far as far whether Dixon did or did not get any F1 offer's I wouldn't put too stock into that. You know how political F1 is.


You are right. Dixon had one test drive for BMW in formula one and never recieved an offer from ANY tem to drive in the series. So, I would say Seabass is not in the same league as Scott. :s mokin:

Gary

[Nikki Katz]

I believe that Dixon was offered a BMW test drive in 2006 with a possible race seat in 2007. He turned it down as BMW weren't ready to commit to a race seat for him in 2007, and by this point it looked a lot like Kubica was being lined up for that race seat, which he ended up in before the end of 2006.

[underpowered]

You are right. Dixon had one test drive for BMW in formula one and never recieved an offer from ANY tem to drive in the series. So, I would say Seabass is not in the same league as Scott. :s mokin:

Gary

How did Seabass get his seat? I think we can all agree, based on his performance last year, it wasnt on talent. You have to admint he was the biggest disapointment of the F1 season.

I just went and looked at his testing times for this month. He is not even capable of going faster than Beumi.

I would love for him to come and test himself against Scott.

[garyshell]

How did Seabass get his seat? I think we can all agree, based on his performance last year, it wasnt on talent. You have to admint he was the biggest disapointment of the F1 season.

I just went and looked at his testing times for this month. He is not even capable of going faster than Beumi.

I would love for him to come and test himself against Scott.

No, I don't think "we can all agree", sorry.

Testing times are not qulifying times. You can't really deduce anything from testing times. We have no idea who is testing what.

I too would like to see Seabass and Scott in identical setups. I think the outcome would be fun.

Gary

[nanders]

How did Seabass get his seat? I think we can all agree, based on his performance last year, it wasnt on talent. You have to admint he was the biggest disapointment of the F1 season.

I just went and looked at his testing times for this month. He is not even capable of going faster than Beumi.

I would love for him to come and test himself against Scott.

I have read that Seabass is not even testing the same configuration as Beumi. Bourdais is testing next years developments for the team and the team was testing Beumi for performance. Apples and Oranges. With that said ... IMO, Bourdais' performance in 2003 where in his very first oval race, he sat on poll and won the race, in one of the all time great Indycar races, truly denotes his skill. I purpose that we won't know how good the IndyCar field is unless they have experience against Bourdais with competitive machinery.

[underpowered]

No, I don't think "we can all agree", sorry.

Testing times are not qulifying times. You can't really deduce anything from testing times. We have no idea who is testing what.

I too would like to see Seabass and Scott in identical setups. I think the outcome would be fun.

Gary

To be honest, I am just a Scott fanboy and I do think Seabass is a fantastic driver, that for some reason hasn't settled well in F1 (I just cant resist winding you up, Gary). The fun thing is, they are about the same age and have had similar success in the US....yet they havn't raced together. I would love to watch it.

[underpowered]

I have read that Seabass is not even testing the same configuration as Beumi. Bourdais is testing next years developments for the team and the team was testing Beumi for performance. Apples and Oranges. With that said ... IMO, Bourdais' performance in 2003 where in his very first oval race, he sat on poll and won the race, in one of the all time great Indycar races, truly denotes his skill. I purpose that we won't know how good the IndyCar field is unless they have experience against Bourdais with competitive machinery.

Do you think he will keep his drive?

[garyshell]

To be honest, I am just a Scott fanboy and I do think Seabass is a fantastic driver, that for some reason hasn't settled well in F1 (I just cant resist winding you up, Gary). The fun thing is, they are about the same age and have had similar success in the US....yet they havn't raced together. I would love to watch it.


I would also love to watch it!!! To be honest I am not a big fan of either of them. I like them both, but neither are my favorites. I think Seabass suffered in F1 the same way many others before him have, namely the engineers think they know everything there is to know about the car and refuse to set it up the way the drivers want. They rely too much on their precious data systems, and think the driver is just another part in the machine.

Gary

[ykiki]

How did Seabass get his seat? I think we can all agree, based on his performance last year, it wasnt on talent.

WHAT?!?!?!?! We certainly do NOT all agree! How exactly did this NON-Red Bull sponsored driver get a seat on a Red Bull team??? It certainly wasn't because he was paying his way in.

The talent is there. Same with Scott Dixon. I'd like nothing more than to see these two go head to head with near-equal equipment.

[Mark in Oshawa]

To say Seabass isn't in Scott's league is obviously said as a Scott Dixon fan or to ignore the reality.

First off, Seabass dominated in Champ Car and while a few of you might sniff that the competition wasn't there, I would humbly disagree and Red Bull took him up based on this. Secondly, as it has been stated, engineers and modern F1 teams do things in a way that is perhaps counterintuitive to a driver who isn't plugged into what the engineers want. Seabass just came from 3 years of getting things his way and I do not think he has had a fair shake with Toro Rosso.

Bourdais is bland and I would like to see others in the seat yes, but as far as talent goes, he has it.

[Cart750hp]

To say Seabass isn't in Scott's league is obviously said as a Scott Dixon fan or to ignore the reality.

First off, Seabass dominated in Champ Car and while a few of you might sniff that the competition wasn't there, I would humbly disagree and Red Bull took him up based on this. Secondly, as it has been stated, engineers and modern F1 teams do things in a way that is perhaps counterintuitive to a driver who isn't plugged into what the engineers want. Seabass just came from 3 years of getting things his way and I do not think he has had a fair shake with Toro Rosso.

Bourdais is bland and I would like to see others in the seat yes, but as far as talent goes, he has it.

Well, I know where you are coming from on this Mark but I think there's more to it than Sebas himself. I agree, I would like to see Tagliani, Hinchcliffe, Tracy, and those good drivers waiting for a ride more than any rejects from other pro-series such as F1 or NASCAR making IndyCar the second option. It really sound so bad for some of us, IndyCar fans. I totally agree. However, although Sebas mentioned IRL would be his second option, as long as someone will sign him and a sponsorship.....IRL need this guy from ChampCar, not from F1. He dominated 4 championships and now, it's his time to prove to Franchitti, Dixon, Castroneves, and the rests of the guys he is still the guy to beat. F1 is plagued with politics, money and business.....wonder why rejects come to US? He'd be a great add on on the current IRL driver list. 2009 will be much competitive than any year of IRL, that I'm sure of. Back on the topic, if Webber would come to IRL, now that is a freaking reject. Any F1 drivers who had a long seat and couldn't get that win then finally land an IRL....that would be a reject. But Sebas? I wouldn't count him as a F1 reject.

[FIAT1]

SB have to prove to irl regulars nothing. First year in F1 and he is ok. With Penske,Ganassi car he would beat any driver in Indycar at this time. Poul Tracy proved everything with ***** car at Edmonton and furthermore other Champ regulars did not do that bad with used parts and scraps.. IRL cars at this time are not much of chalange for drivers coming from Champcar or f1. This is not to start any bs just a fact. Indycar of 1990 was a race car with skill needed and Francitti, Castoneves, Dixon dominate because they raced real cars before. I'm Indycar fan and hope they built a real race cars where skill and talent to drive them makes a stars and fan interest. I'm not SB fan but would like to see him race in USA very much.

[courageous]

He would be quick straight out of the box, I am sure - but what would it say about the Indycar series if the championship fight was between an F1 reject & a NASCAR reject (Dario)?

*No offence to either driver, but the reason they do not have drives in F1/NASCAR is not their choice.

[garyshell]

He would be quick straight out of the box, I am sure - but what would it say about the Indycar series if the championship fight was between an F1 reject & a NASCAR reject (Dario)?

*No offence to either driver, but the reason they do not have drives in F1/NASCAR is not their choice.

So you are implying that it is because of a lack of talent? The reality is more likely that neither of them can provide the $$$. Since in both cases, the teams can't find a sponsor to pay for the car let alone a driver, the teams are looking to find a ride buyer. In Dario's case I think he was ill suited to Nascar, so your implication might be right. But I think it is way off the mark regarding Sebass. He's no Alonso, Hamilton or Masa. But is certainly the equal to a number of other paid drivers in F1.

Gary

[Mark in Oshawa]

So you are implying that it is because of a lack of talent? The reality is more likely that neither of them can provide the $$$. Since in both cases, the teams can't find a sponsor to pay for the car let alone a driver, the teams are looking to find a ride buyer. In Dario's case I think he was ill suited to Nascar, so your implication might be right. But I think it is way off the mark regarding Sebass. He's no Alonso, Hamilton or Masa. But is certainly the equal to a number of other paid drivers in F1.

Gary

That is the nub of it Gary. In f1, it is hard to evaluate anyone really past the really good because only about 4 cars in any given year are really good all the time. Vettel did better than Seabass this year but I have read more than once that the team was more willing to set the car up for Vettel than Sebastien.

As for Dario being unsuited for NASCAR, it takes about a year and change for anyone to make that adjustment coming from being a road race or OW guy like Dario. Look no further than AJ Allmendinger who was fast in any OW car he sat in and took a whole year of struggling before starting to make waves this year in NASCAR.

That is the nub of it Gary. In f1, it is hard to evaluate anyone really past the really good because only about 4 cars in any given year are really good all the time. Vettel did better than Seabass this year but I have read more than once that the team was more willing to set the car up for Vettel than Sebastien.

Which surely proves in itself that he, Bourdais, wasn't good enough.

Formula 1 does not engender kindness to your team-mate....it is all about making yourself top dog in your team. Schumacher didn't play the shy retiring type when getting himself prefential treatment, nor did Hamilton or Alonso. All three of them, just like Prost, Senna, Mansell, Piquet, Lauda etc, got themselves the team leader mantle by being listened too and, more importantly, making sure they were the voice that was heard.

Sure, Vettel was favoured by the Red Bull contigent, but you can bet your bottom dollar (it's worth more than my lousy pounds, so I hope you realise how much money I'm putting on this!) that he didn't just turn up one morning and find the team falling over backwards to help him because he's got a cheesy grin!

Nope, Vettel will have forced the issue. That Bourdais didn't step up to the plate and make himself a contender to be taken seriously does, I'm afraid, speak volumes about why Toro Rosso don't seem to be too bothered about retaining him.

[CCWS77]

Which surely proves in itself that he, Bourdais, wasn't good enough.

Formula 1 does not engender kindness to your team-mate....it is all about making yourself top dog in your team. Schumacher didn't play the shy retiring type when getting himself prefential treatment, nor did Hamilton or Alonso. All three of them, just like Prost, Senna, Mansell, Piquet, Lauda etc, got themselves the team leader mantle by being listened too and, more importantly, making sure they were the voice that was heard.

Sure, Vettel was favoured by the Red Bull contigent, but you can bet your bottom dollar (it's worth more than my lousy pounds, so I hope you realise how much money I'm putting on this!) that he didn't just turn up one morning and find the team falling over backwards to help him because he's got a cheesy grin!

Nope, Vettel will have forced the issue. That Bourdais didn't step up to the plate and make himself a contender to be taken seriously does, I'm afraid, speak volumes about why Toro Rosso don't seem to be too bothered about retaining him.

That assesment is based on personality not skill. Even Vettel was quoting as saying the team wouldn't or couldn't give Bourdais the setup he asked for.

[Mad_Hatter]

That assesment is based on personality not skill. Even Vettel was quoting as saying the team wouldn't or couldn't give Bourdais the setup he asked for.

That's interesting. Not saying it's not true, but do you have a link to or remember where you read or heard this?

[ShiftingGears]

That assesment is based on personality not skill. Even Vettel was quoting as saying the team wouldn't or couldn't give Bourdais the setup he asked for.

Then again, Bourdais is quoted as saying that Vettel can adapt to cars that aren't perfectly set-up better than he can.

That assesment is based on personality not skill. Even Vettel was quoting as saying the team wouldn't or couldn't give Bourdais the setup he asked for.

And having a personality that allows a team to develop the car for another driver is an important weakness.

Driving skill alone might be ok in some series, but in F1 it needs a more forceful single-minded approach beyond what happens inside the cockpit.

It might not be pleasant, probably isn't an attractive trait and certainly isn't virtous, but it is what it takes.

Oh, and if he couldn't simply adapt and needed a set-up that was not capable of being given to him, that also explains why Toro Rosso are in no hurry to extend his deal.

[garyshell]

And having a personality that allows a team to develop the car for another driver is an important weakness.

Driving skill alone might be ok in some series, but in F1 it needs a more forceful single-minded approach beyond what happens inside the cockpit.

It might not be pleasant, probably isn't an attractive trait and certainly isn't virtous, but it is what it takes.

Oh, and if he couldn't simply adapt and needed a set-up that was not capable of being given to him, that also explains why Toro Rosso are in no hurry to extend his deal.


Call me crazy, but I thought the point of having a two car team was to get both cars to finish as high as possible. I didn't think it was designed to see which driver could brow beat the team into setting up the car his way. Oh, wait, we are talking about Formula One. How silly of me. Never mind.

Gary

[Mark in Oshawa]

I am with you Gary. When it comes to logic from team owners, f1 is the last place you find it. Silly Sebastien just came to work and drove the race car. Vettel was kissing @ss and kicking it afterwards.

I don't know if Vettel is so far ahead of Seabass on talent as Tam would have us believe but I do think there is a point where Seabass should have just changed tactics. That said, drivers in f1 are told to drive a certain way to make the engineers happy. The boffins say a corner must be done a certain way and set the car up to go that way as if the real life racing must match a simulator somewhere. The driver who can do what the boffin's want gets the influence. Seabass is hurt by his years over here where the driver still has a say I guess....

[Tallgeese]

Bourdais doesn't need to be demoted to Indy. Bad luck played against him in F1 all too often but in point of fact he's just too good for Indy or ChampCar. I think the issue is now about sponsorship, but in reality if he doesn't pick up an F1 seat next year, he can wow everybody at GP2 or Formula 2 before stepping back to F1. Going to IRL as a means of getting to F1 is counter-productive.

[NickFalzone]

Bourdais doesn't need to be demoted to Indy. Bad luck played against him in F1 all too often but in point of fact he's just too good for Indy or ChampCar. I think the issue is now about sponsorship, but in reality if he doesn't pick up an F1 seat next year, he can wow everybody at GP2 or Formula 2 before stepping back to F1. Going to IRL as a means of getting to F1 is counter-productive.

You really think SB is at the point in his career where he has the time to go down to an F1 ladder series, THEN come back to the top rung? I just don't see that happening. I agree his talent deserves an F1 ride or equivalent. IRL is not that equivalent. But IRL still may be his best option if the F1 thing doesn't work out. There have been many talented drivers that have not made for a successful opening round in F1, for reasons beyond their driving ability. SB may well be another to add to that list.

but in reality if he doesn't pick up an F1 seat next year, he can wow everybody at GP2 or Formula 2 before stepping back to F1.

It worked for Glock, but hasn't for Pantano. It's a bloody big risk for a driver, especially one who does appear to have a healthy number of alternative career options state-side.

Bourdais should shine in Indycar just as he did in Champcar (assuming he gets a top notch drive) because IndyCar doesn't require the same 'political' mindset as does F1.

[garyshell]

I am with you Gary. When it comes to logic from team owners, f1 is the last place you find it. Silly Sebastien just came to work and drove the race car. Vettel was kissing @ss and kicking it afterwards.

I don't know if Vettel is so far ahead of Seabass on talent as Tam would have us believe but I do think there is a point where Seabass should have just changed tactics. That said, drivers in f1 are told to drive a certain way to make the engineers happy. The boffins say a corner must be done a certain way and set the car up to go that way as if the real life racing must match a simulator somewhere. The driver who can do what the boffin's want gets the influence. Seabass is hurt by his years over here where the driver still has a say I guess....


I didn't get the impression that Tamburello was saying seabass lacked driving talent. I think he meant seabass lacked the political talents requisite to playing the formula one game.

Gary

[gshevlin]

I also remember one John Horgan of Marlboro complaining back in 1981 that Gilles Villeneuve "does not understand the politics of F1" after Gilles removed the Marlboro logos from his uniform in protest that Marlboro were paying Didier Pironi $250,000 a year more than him, supposedly to supplement his Ferrari salary. After reading that, I concluded that F1 "politics" were almost certainly mostly BS. Based on that, plus my experience in business, I concluded a long time ago that any explanation for an action that involves "politics" is usually a euphemistic way of admitting that the action has no logical basis.
Sebastian can walk away from F1 and either come back to the IRL, or join a major manufacturer who will build their Le Mans effort around him. The fact that he is talking about a return to the IRL tells me that he will not be retained by Toro Rosso and already knows this. My suspicion is that his initial bad experience testing for Renault and dealing with Flavio Briatore has given him a pretty low tolerance for F1 "politics", and may have negatively impacted perceptions of him inside F1. It is at times like this that one is reminded that F1 is not necessarily a driver meritocracy (I am also reminded of this when I look at Tom Kristensen's record in other forms of racing - a guy who is quick in anything, yet no F1 team would do more than "kick the tyres" with him).

I didn't get the impression that Tamburello was saying seabass lacked driving talent. I think he meant seabass lacked the political talents requisite to playing the formula one game.

Gary

Nail. Hit. Head.

Grazie Mr Shell.

[garyshell]

Nail. Hit. Head.

Grazie Mr Shell.


I had a feeling I knew what you meant. Great minds think alike. <big ol' grin>

Happy New Year, my friend.

Gary

[Mark in Oshawa]

I apologize for misreading your take on things Tam.....

Seabass isn't a political animal...awful rare for a Frenchman n'est pas?