Subaru pull out of 2009 WRC!!!!!

[RallySport Mag]

This is massive for the WRC......

http://tinyurl.com/6bdh88

[J.Lindstroem]

I'm now trying to imagine how the rally scene will be with only two manufactors. I mean, a whole year with only seeing Ford and Citroen? It will be really empty.

The question everybody think of also is off course, what will Petter do in 09? I can't imagine that he will be out totaly? Maybe he decide to retire? Many questionmark now but i think we will know more in a couple of hours!

[Fang]

The old dog has been put out of its misery. A very sad day for world rallying.

[Buzz Lightyear]

WRC has choked itself.... nobody was listening.

[Daniel]

Good on them for not throwing good money after bad. We needed cost cutting years ago and the FIA refused and now we're reaping what the FIA sowed.

Ford will stay on regardless because Malcolm will want to say that his team got a drivers title for one of their drivers despite there being no competition.

I think unless there is a LOT of interest in the new formula shown by other manufacturers Citroen will be out at the end of 2009. I would love for them to withdraw before the start of next season though. That would be great.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Good on them for not throwing good money after bad. We needed cost cutting years ago and the FIA refused and now we're reaping what the FIA sowed.

Ford will stay on regardless because Malcolm will want to say that his team got a drivers title for one of their drivers despite there being no competition.

I think unless there is a LOT of interest in the new formula shown by other manufacturers Citroen will be out at the end of 2009. I would love for them to withdraw before the start of next season though. That would be great.


North One, the promotor will go broke at this rate. WRC will join IRC, and Eurosport will be the promotor.

[RS]

North One, the promotor will go broke at this rate. WRC will join IRC, and Eurosport will be the promotor.

That would be good news. North One were crap.

[RallySport Mag]

If Ford pull out too, maybe they'll make it a one-make Citroen championship. Best man wins!

[shaitan]

so what's about fia thought this time?
make two poor team play game?

[Fang]

If Ford pull out too, maybe they'll make it a one-make Citroen championship. Best man wins!

And if both Citroen and Ford pulls out the WRC might be interesting for a change.

[shurik]

What a bombshell!
Obviously FIA doing something wrong with the sport, 2 manufacturers and basically one contender for 2009, this is seriously sick :(

I would pull out of championship in case of Citroen, 2009 win would look more like disgrace than achievement

[Nenukknak]

I fail to see how people can blame FIA for this. Economic crisis coupled to bad results equals manufacturers pulling out. It's not that hard. As for cost-cutting measures by the FIA, I think the manufacturers are largely to blame themselves for that.

Sad day though Subaru out of the WRC. The team (with McRae) which first got me noticing rally. The manufacturer that offered a road-car that at least came somewhat close to a WRC. Subaru was rallying.

On the other hand it was pathetic how they struggled the last years and I can say I will really miss them. Will be interesting what happens with the other manufacturers though. Who's next?

[RallySport Mag]

"I'll be back!" says Petter Solberg ......

Read it here on www.rallysportmag.com.au (http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3308&Itemid=2)

[JAM]

I fail to see how people can blame FIA for this. Economic crisis coupled to bad results equals manufacturers pulling out.

F1 is more expensive than WRC and has a lot more teams than WRC. In F1 only 10% went out, in WRC 50% went out. Why this?

Because WRC has nothing to give to manufacturers. The F1 has a huge audience, a huge coverage, very well promoted. The WRC is the oposite in all, and in adition WRC has some bad events that don't bring spectators.

Who should we blame? Not the manufacturers certainly. The manufacturers alerted some weeks ago to the promtional issues.... now we see that without any visible return of the presence in WRC, the championship itself is not atractive as a business.

This is business, but for this business work well you need to atract audience, and this has not been done.

[shurik]

I fail to see how people can blame FIA for this. Economic crisis coupled to bad results equals manufacturers pulling out. It's not that hard. As for cost-cutting measures by the FIA, I think the manufacturers are largely to blame themselves for that.
I'm pretty sure, that Subaru move is closely linked to S2000+ decision in first place.
And second moment is that FIA has created a situation where all this cost cut comedy is just not working, no matter what they introduce. They removing symptoms instead of disease. Even if FIA decide that in 2009 all cars should run one set of tyres for whole season, it would be a penny save, while the problem is that to create a WRC car you have spend awful a lot of money just to get it homologated

[Brother John]

F1 is more expensive than WRC and has a lot more teams than WRC. In F1 only 10% went out, in WRC 50% went out. Why this?

Because WRC has nothing to give to manufacturers. The F1 has a huge audience, a huge coverage, very well promoted. The WRC is the oposite in all, and in adition WRC has some bad events that don't bring spectators.

Who should we blame? Not the manufacturers certainly. The manufacturers alerted some weeks ago to the promtional issues.... now we see that without any visible return of the presence in WRC, the championship itself is not atractive as a business.

This is business, but for this business work well you need to atract audience, and this has not been done.

Good answer JAM. :up: Why aren't some here realistic :?:

[GigiGalliNo1]

http://www.wrc.com also report it and http://www.swrt.com

blehhh... how fantastic watching the WRC next year!

[shurik]

F1 is more expensive than WRC and has a lot more teams than WRC. In F1 only 10% went out, in WRC 50% went out. Why this?

Because WRC has nothing to give to manufacturers. The F1 has a huge audience, a huge coverage, very well promoted. The WRC is the oposite in all, and in adition WRC has some bad events that don't bring spectators.

Who should we blame? Not the manufacturers certainly. The manufacturers alerted some weeks ago to the promtional issues.... now we see that without any visible return of the presence in WRC, the championship itself is not atractive as a business.

This is business, but for this business work well you need to atract audience, and this has not been done.
If WRC had spectacular and exciting championship they would've have good promotion, to have this sort of show you need good competition, to have a good competition you need manufacturers, but they require a spectacular and exciting championship to join to have a good promotion and to lower the risks. It's a closed loop system.

[RicKT]

A very Sad day for WRC this is.....






"10:26am UK, Tuesday December 16, 2008

Car manufacturer Subaru has announced it is to pull out of the World Rally Championship.


Subaru is the last in a string of firms forced off the competitive track by the slump



Parent Fuji Heavy Industries said it was taking the team out of the competition because of the global economic crisis.

The news comes a day after Suzuki revealed it was dropping out because of the downturn.

Their exit leaves just world champions Citroen, owned by PSA Peugeot Citroen, and cash-strapped US firm Ford chasing the manufacturers' title next year.

The Subaru team became an iconic marque during 20 years in the sport which delivered three constructors titles and three drivers titles from Colin McRae, Richard Burns and Petter Solberg.

Fuji Heavy chief executive Ikuo Mori broke into tears as he delivered the news to journalists in Tokyo.

He said: "Our business environment has changed dramatically due to the rapid deterioration of the global economy.



Honda is another racing casualty

"In order to optimise the management resources and to strengthen the Subaru brand further, Fuji Heavy decided to withdraw from WRC activities at the earliest time."

Earlier this month Honda, Japan's second-largest car manufacturer, quit Formula One racing saying it needed the cash for its core business.

The moves comes as the global automotive sector is under extreme pressure to cut costs as recession keeps demand alarmingly low.

Both the US and British manufacturers are chasing government cash to help "keep their businesses afloat."

[WRCfan]

R.I.P WRC. It's officially now dead...stone cold

[COD]

F1 is more expensive than WRC and has a lot more teams than WRC. In F1 only 10% went out, in WRC 50% went out. Why this?

Because WRC has nothing to give to manufacturers. The F1 has a huge audience, a huge coverage, very well promoted. The WRC is the oposite in all, and in adition WRC has some bad events that don't bring spectators.

Who should we blame? Not the manufacturers certainly. The manufacturers alerted some weeks ago to the promtional issues.... now we see that without any visible return of the presence in WRC, the championship itself is not atractive as a business.

This is business, but for this business work well you need to atract audience, and this has not been done.

You are right in many ways, but the manufacturers are partly to blame also.

WHY? Because they have been against dramatic cost cutting measures that would have made the cars cheaper to develop and run. They have done it because they have invested a lot in the current cars and expensive technologies and have not wanted these to be scrapped. But this has resulted in many manufacturers pulling out (Hyundai, Seat, Skoda, Suzuki...) and even more manufacturers not even considering WRC as an option.

Of course the championship has been poorly promoted compared to F1. But also the current regulations (specially related to cars) have also killed part of the spectacle with no sideways action etc. And again, that is partly the manufacturers fault as well.

The economic crisis is just used as an excuse (good one).

[GigiGalliNo1]

why did mitsubishi pull out again?

[GigiGalliNo1]

A bit more....

http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3307&Itemid=2

[pino]

What a sad day for all rallyfans :bigcry:

[TKM]

The economic crisis is just used as an excuse (good one).
The only economic crisis is that no one wants to buy their new butt ugly Impreza.

[Daniel]

A bit more....

http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3307&Itemid=2


Subaru’s decision comes just a day after Suzuki ended their WRC program, leaving only Ford and Citroen in the championship. Given Ford’s economic problems worldwide, many wet behind the ears reporters who do not understand that M-Sport gets virtually no backing from Ford and draws nearly all of their money from Abu Dhabi and BP are already predicting that the Blue Oval may follow suit.

There fixed up the ommision from their article. Ford will continue in the WRC as long as Wilson gets outside sponsorship.

The

[Barreis]

No big deal. Life goes on. It's only business. Only bad situation is where to place Solberg/Atkinson... Look at P. Solberg at Bettega Memorial!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EpN1zdT5Ys&eurl=http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/show.php?id=10124

[Livewireshock]

In what is now a two horse race, Ford will stick around because of now certain glory. Even if it is a hollow victory in the face of reduced competition.

[N.O.T]

competiton wise subaru leaving is not a big blow...on the contrary if atko and peter find a good team to do the championship we might have better competiton for the top3.

[Brother John]

Subaru’s decision comes just a day after Suzuki ended their WRC program, leaving only Ford and Citroen in the championship. Given Ford’s economic problems worldwide, many wet behind the ears reporters who do not understand that M-Sport gets virtually no backing from Ford and draws nearly all of their money from Abu Dhabi and BP are already predicting that the Blue Oval may follow suit.[/quote]

There fixed up the ommision from their article. Ford will continue in the WRC as long as Wilson gets outside sponsorship.



Most logical for wrc is to introduce a sabat year and then go further with S2000! Or work together with IRC in 2009.
Why would Citroën and Ford drive in 2009, the wrc championship?

S2000(+) would be anyway a crap car, don´t you see that nobody wants to build that turbo shop carrier? http://paradise.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/smilies/smokin.gif

[Daniel]

In what is now a two horse race, Ford will stick around because of now certain glory. Even if it is a hollow victory in the face of reduced competition.

Since when has Malcolm cared if his victories had substance ;)

[Viking]

(VG Nett) Subaru has chosen to skip the rally-circus, but Petter Solberg is welcome to Mads Østbergs Norwegian Adapta World Rally Team.

Sure we are interested, it would be almost stupid to say no. Petter is one of the major drivers, "said team manager Morten Østberg to VG Nett.

Must obtain permission of Subaru

Firstly, he must want to do it. For the second Petter receive between 45 and 50 million (Nkr) in salaries directly from Subaru in Japan. Adapta World Rally Team can not buy him out from this contract, that last out 2009.

- To solve this we need Petter to reach agreement with Subaru in which he allowed to do jobs with other teams. But if he can and will, we will be very happy to have him here, "said Morten Østberg.


Subarus decision to skip the WRC circus has nothing to say for Adapta World Rally Team and Mads Østberg commitment to the World Cup next year.

- We have the necessary reasurances from Prodrive that Subarus exit from the WRC has no significance for our program. We will get the same - if not better - backing from Prodrive after this decision, "says Østberg.


http://www.vg.no/pub/vgart.hbs?artid=555540

[Livewireshock]

There are plenty of decent WRC cars now available but it is very late to be scratching together a rally program when business everywhere is suffering. There are no white knights in shining armour to help out here.

I also can not see countless numbers of Ford Focus' being available to suit everyone.

The best I can see now is for one off individual drives for the former Suzuki and Subaru drivers. Very limited campaigns are the only possible answer at the moment.

[Lalo]

What about Solberg/Mills and Atkinson/Prevot contracts? Can they rally in the WRC with another car next season?

[Lalo]

If Petter and/or Chris can make to run in an M2 team next season, like Adapta or Stobart, it would be a last chance choice.

[Doon]

(VG Nett) Subaru has chosen to skip the rally-circus,
Firstly, he must want to do it. For the second Petter receive between 45 and 50 million (Nkr) in salaries directly from Subaru in Japan. Adapta World Rally Team can not buy him out from this contract, that last out 2009.

[/url]

Thats 4-4.5 million pounds!?

Does Petter really get paid that much?

[Viking]

Just a wild guess from the journalists methinks, I have also heard the half of that.

[Roy]

Subaru’s decision comes just a day after Suzuki ended their WRC program, leaving only Ford and Citroen in the championship. Given Ford’s economic problems worldwide, many wet behind the ears reporters who do not understand that M-Sport gets virtually no backing from Ford and draws nearly all of their money from Abu Dhabi and BP are already predicting that the Blue Oval may follow suit.[/quote]

There fixed up the ommision from their article. Ford will continue in the WRC as long as Wilson gets outside sponsorship.

The

I asked before. Where do you find who pays what????
It's only you come with this Bullsh!t

[Daniel]

I asked before. Where do you find who pays what????
It's only you come with this Bullsh!t

Ignore me if you want. Doesn't bother me :wave:

[Ghostwalker]

i could be wrong but i thought yesterday was the last day for drivers and teams to submit their entry to the 2009 season?

[Daniel]

i could be wrong but i thought yesterday was the last day for drivers and teams to submit their entry to the 2009 season?
I'm guessing Subaru didn't submit an entry then.

[Ghostwalker]

I'm guessing Subaru didn't submit an entry then.

sorry i what i meant was that Pg, Toni, Petter and Chris couldnt possible find a new WRC seat if the last day of entry was yesterday?

[Daniel]

sorry i what i meant was that Pg, Toni, Petter and Chris couldnt possible find a new WRC seat if the last day of entry was yesterday?
Fair point :)

[Viking]

i could be wrong but i thought yesterday was the last day for drivers and teams to submit their entry to the 2009 season?

15/12, M1 teams and 1`st driver.

23/12, Drivers and M2 teams who wants to score points in Ireland, M2 teams can register the latest 5 weeks before the 4`th rally in 2009

[GigiGalliNo1]

http://www.rallybuzz.com/adapta-wrt-petter-solberg-2009/

http://wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=3544&desc=Subaru doesn’t rule out WRC return

[MrJan]

Not surprised that another team left the WRC, just that it was Subaru. Scooby have been a solid point throughout my time of watching the WRC and even though they've been sh**e recently I naively didn't expect them to leave.

Next year will be a shadow and there is no doubt that they'll have to change something, and let's not blame the economic crisis or the FIA, I think we all know that if Audi hadn't introduced the Quattro then we'd still be watching Stratos', Escorts and Chevettes out on the stages ;) :p : :D

[Buzz Lightyear]

I'm guessing Subaru didn't submit an entry then.

The strange thing is...they did.

[urabus-denoS2000]

I cant believe this!!!!!!!!!!!
SUBARU OUT????????'IS THIS POSSIBLE???????????
I AM SHOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope they take a break,pull their heads back together and come back as a winning team.
This is a trully sad day for rallying

[Englandsfahrer]

At least, in his final outing, he proved he's faster than his car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=graCdhtipt4&eurl=http://www.vg.no/pub/vgart.hbs?artid=555524

On the other hand: Now he's free to drive other cars. So what if he can't sign up for a manufacturer team. At least as a privateer he car get the car he likes best, use the shocks he want etc. Still, I've got to say, its not very nice of subaru to wait until it's too late for him to sign to another manufacturer before pulling out. I mean, the deadline was yesterday? Anyway, it's probably not difficult for him to secure enough sponsors. Even if he can't immidiately, he can outright pay for his first outings.

So what's the bets on him ending up in a ford, or maybe a citroen hire car?

Me, at least, am glad they pulled out, since Petter seemed unwilling to leave them to find a faster car. All in all, it might have saved his career.

[jparker]

What about the contracts Prodrive has with Peter and Atko? Are they obligated in any way?

[c4]

Statement from Tokyo press conference by president of Fuji Heavy Industries
http://www.rallybuzz.com/subaru-withdraw-wrc-statement/

[curry]

I think the wheels are going to fall completely of the WRC bandwagon as we currently know it next year. I honestly can't see Citroen competing in 2010 - they have already achieved everything they could want, so what’s in it for them to continue (especially if Seb walks).

I just can't see any big time sponsors wanting to put more money into 'WRC' in the short term, especially with the current economic climate. As a result I think the people that are going to suffer the most in 2009 will be the rally organisers – would you honestly pay to advertise in your home rally?
I can only hope that we are going to take a step backwards to go forwards in a few years time with a better ‘WRC’.

[Buzz Lightyear]

I think the wheels are going to fall completely of the WRC bandwagon as we currently know it next year. I honestly can't see Citroen competing in 2010 - they have already achieved everything they could want, so what’s in it for them to continue (especially if Seb walks).

I just can't see any big time sponsors wanting to put more money into 'WRC' in the short term, especially with the current economic climate. As a result I think the people that are going to suffer the most in 2009 will be the rally organisers – would you honestly pay to advertise in your home rally?
I can only hope that we are going to take a step backwards to go forwards in a few years time with a better ‘WRC’.

Citroen will be there in 2009.

[Gard]

What about the contracts Prodrive has with Peter and Atko? Are they obligated in any way?

Don't quote me on this but, I think Petter is in contract directly to Subaru Japan and Chris is with Prodrive. Really hope they let Petter go. Otherwise Petter is stuck doing commercial work for Subaru next year. Hope they release him, so he can get a drive elsewhere.

Petter has taken this very hard. Now he knows he has wasted the better part of his career with a crap car. So loyalty didn't pay off

[curry]

Citroen will be there in 2009.

I never said they wouldn't be there in 2009, however I don't expect to see them in 2010.

[Gard]

Maybe Subaru take this opportunity to get rid of Prodrive and start with clean sheets with the new 2010 spec cars

[Buzz Lightyear]

Maybe Subaru take this opportunity to get rid of Prodrive and start with clean sheets with the new 2010 spec cars

Japanese dont have a great success rate when trying to manange projects themselves...

I cant think of another engineering team i could recommend...

Volkswagen dont need Prodrive me thinks, with their off-road experience they could develop a super 2000 themselves.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Petter has taken this very hard. Now he knows he has wasted the better part of his career with a crap car. So loyalty didn't pay off

he is a multi millionaire.

[Le NaRcX]

Maybe it could be better to suspend the WRC for the whole 2009 year, and think a lot about the 2010 regulations to do the better future possible. I don't think a competition Ford vs Citroen is a good choice. Could be better for these brands to keep the money for a better inversion in 2010.

[Roy]

Japanese dont have a great success rate when trying to manange projects themselves...

I cant think of another engineering team i could recommend...

Volkswagen dont need Prodrive me thinks, with their off-road experience they could develop a super 2000 themselves.

With Skoda knowledge, yes VW can. But why VW steps in, as Skoda (another VW company) does allready have a S2000?

[Tomi]

Petter has taken this very hard. Now he knows he has wasted the better part of his career with a crap car. So loyalty didn't pay off

Loyality never pays off in professional sport, and the drivers carreer is short, the team use the driver s long as they benfit from him, not a second longer. The drivers should do the same.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Maybe it could be better to suspend the WRC for the whole 2009 year, and think a lot about the 2010 regulations to do the better future possible. I don't think a competition Ford vs Citroen is a good choice. Could be better for these brands to keep the money for a better inversion in 2010.

That is actually a plausible idea.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Loyality never pays off in professional sport, and the drivers carreer is short, the team use the driver s long as they benfit from him, not a second longer. The drivers should do the same.

Except if your name is Sebastian.

[Tomi]

Except if your name is Sebastian.

How is that?

[Buzz Lightyear]

How is that?

You are saying loyality does not payoff. Im saying it does, if your good enough.

[Tomi]

You are saying loyality does not payoff. Im saying it does, if your good enough.

Only a fool would leave a team that has a winning car, and only a fool stays in a team with a crap car too long for loyality reasons.

[Gard]

Well... Subaru says they will back teams with privately entered Subarus. where is this going actually?

[COD]

Well... Subaru says they will back teams with privately entered Subarus. where is this going actually?


Maybe the way of Kronos-Citroen a few years back?

[Daniel]

Only a fool would leave a team that has a winning car, and only a fool stays in a team with a crap car too long for loyality reasons.

We all wondered why Petter stayed with Subaru for so long, now he must be thinking the same thing.

[Buzz Lightyear]

We all wondered why Petter stayed with Subaru for so long, now he must be thinking the same thing.

I wondered by Subaru stayed with Petter. It was a winning car when he arrived, and its went down hill ever since.

[Daniel]

I wondered by Subaru stayed with Petter. It was a winning car when he arrived, and its went down hill ever since.
Like anyone else was going to do any better in that car?

[Gard]

Like anyone else was going to do any better in that car?
My thoughts too. He's been in team with, quickly from memory, Makinen, Burns, Arai, Hirvonen, Sarrazin, Pons and Chris and the one closest in performance has been Chris. Sure they al lousy drivers and subaru has been the best car there is...

[Viking]

quickly from memory, Makinen, Burns, Arai, Hirvonen, Sarrazin, Pons and Chris

adding Martin and Jean-Joseph

[ln-ops]

I wondered by Subaru stayed with Petter. It was a winning car when he arrived, and its went down hill ever since.

Maybe things are different in your spaceship mr. Lightyear, but I do not think any other driver would have done a better job than Petter.

A four times World Champion tried, with no luck. Are you calling Mäkinen a bad driver too???

Anyway, this will eventually be a good thing for rally as a sport. With a new formula in 2010 that cuts costs we migth see real rally again.

Nowadays drivers a paying more than 3 million dollars to drive as a third (and fourth) driver (Andreas Mikkelsen vs Citroen). Plain stupid, and that is ruining the sport I love.

What is happening now, and towards 2010 is a good thing. This will clean up the insane use of money we se today. Maybe we can get some real rally again after the 2009 season has ended?

[Kamikaze]

Since when has Malcolm cared if his victories had substance ;)

Is it very painfull to be so full of hate ? :rolleyes:

[Daniel]

Is it very painfull to be so full of hate ? :rolleyes:
No :D

[gloomyDAY]

No :D LOL!

On a serious note, I'm really sad to see Subaru take the plank.

I will have fond memories of wearing my SWRT shirt as Petter passed by at Rally Mexico 2008. :( They'll be back and they'll be a winning team once again.

[MrJan]

Is it very painfull to be so full of hate ? :rolleyes:

Daniel isn't filled with hate.......hate is filled with Daniel :D ;) :p :

[Brother John]

Only a fool would leave a team that has a winning car, and only a fool stays in a team with a crap car too long for loyality reasons.

No not for loyality reasons but for the money he stays whit that crap car!

[jonkka]

Subaru's departure is a major event, in a class of losses Lancia in 1993 and Toyota in 1999. No other manufacturer - that is not currently active - has achieved as much over as long period of time.

Besides Subaru's achievements as a manufacturer, it's also a team that was an icon. As many have remembered in their posts, it was Subaru that got them interested in of the sport and it was Subaru drivers that inspired them.

Obviously, it's a sad day to see them go but that's life. WRC gets over it and if Subaru still exists in the future, they might return. Until that day, thank you for the memories!

[alexlake]

Its a real shame Subaru have gone. I never knew what a rally car was untill 2002, when my sisters boyfriend came round in a Subaru!. From then I was hooked, and have only known WRC in its current format and teams. I go to a few events each year, Germany, Spain and Wales this year, and to think there will be even less cars this year is really sad, there are too few full wrc cars as it is.
Big shame.........

[Daniel]

LOL!

On a serious note, I'm really sad to see Subaru take the plank.

I will have fond memories of wearing my SWRT shirt as Petter passed by at Rally Mexico 2008. :( They'll be back and they'll be a winning team once again.

In some ways I'm sad in some ways I'm not.

I am sad a manufacturer with such a good history in modern rallying has left.

BUT what have they left? They've left a half arsed WRC which wasn't really worth competing in. It's amazing how rubbish the WRC has been for the last couple of years when compared to the boom period we had from 2000-2004 or so.

To me it's like having to put down an old but much loved dog. It's sad, so sad but you realise that it's for the best when all the dog does is lay in it's kennel all day because it's too old to walk around without being in lots of pain. Thing is though you had lots of good years so don't be too unhappy. You can always get a new puppy and over time you will grow to like that one just as much.

What you say is very true Jonkka. Sadly with Colin gone for good and now Subaru gone for the forseeable future this is the end of an era for sure.

Thanks for the memories Subaru :)

[alexlake]

BUT what have they left? They've left a half arsed WRC which wasn't really worth competing in. It's amazing how rubbish the WRC has been for the last couple of years when compared to the boom period we had from 2000-2004 or so.



Thanks for the memories Subaru :)

Good posting ;)

[Daniel]

Good posting ;)
Seriously, don't agree with me. It's customary on these forums to accuse me of being hateful or something similarly ridiculous just because I have no qualms in pointing out what is plainly obvious to those of us who live in the real world and who realised the WRC was in trouble years ago :)

[pettersolberg29]

I'm hearing some wild rumours that perhaps Petter and Henning will fork out for 2 privateer Subaru's, IF Petter can't race for Adapta for contractual reasons.

Now that could be fun!

[Daniel]

I'm hearing some wild rumours that perhaps Petter and Henning will fork out for 2 privateer Subaru's, IF Petter can't race for Adapta for contractual reasons.

Now that could be fun!

That would be fun :)

[Sulland]

Just read that it might be a sabbatical (a Skoda) to regroup and make a S2000 based car in peace and quiet.

Have anyone else seen this somewhere ?

[Larry_Japan]

Truly awful news, and embarrassing for the WRC. But don't forget Citreon pulled out of the WRC for 2005, and Loeb still managed to win the title in a Kronos Xsara... I know it wasn't wholly independent, but I think we might see privateer teams challenging the 2 official manufacturers again?

[Nenukknak]

Just read that it might be a sabbatical (a Skoda) to regroup and make a S2000 based car in peace and quiet.

Have anyone else seen this somewhere ?

Not likely. Subaru are gone for at least the long term and maybe forever:

http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=3544&desc=Subaru%20doesn’t%20rule%20out%20WRC%20return

[Roy]

WRC good value and benefits for Ford.

Wake up marketing boys/girls by Ford.
Sorry. This is to optimistic about WRC!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72508

[bubbaontour]

In some ways I'm sad in some ways I'm not.

I am sad a manufacturer with such a good history in modern rallying has left.

BUT what have they left? They've left a half arsed WRC which wasn't really worth competing in. It's amazing how rubbish the WRC has been for the last couple of years when compared to the boom period we had from 2000-2004 or so.

To me it's like having to put down an old but much loved dog. It's sad, so sad but you realise that it's for the best when all the dog does is lay in it's kennel all day because it's too old to walk around without being in lots of pain. Thing is though you had lots of good years so don't be too unhappy. You can always get a new puppy and over time you will grow to like that one just as much.

What you say is very true Jonkka. Sadly with Colin gone for good and now Subaru gone for the forseeable future this is the end of an era for sure.

Thanks for the memories Subaru :)

Where do you live?

[Fischer]

One could expect this to happen, bad economic situation and no wins since 2005.

[AndyRAC]

I think Jonkka and Daniel have hit the nail on head - it is sad that a once successful Manufacturer/Team have had to leave. Maybe it's for the best - for Subaru, being in the WRC has totally transformed their image. One just hopes that all employees will be kept in work.
As for the WRC - Who knows - really , something drastic was needed to happen - the warning signs have been there for quite a few years. But the FIA have done nothing, until it was far too late - and now we are left with what can only be called a total mess.
My biggest gripe is trying to make the WRC just like F1 - Friday - Sunday, cental Service park, 9-5 Rallying, numerous Repeated stages, etc
The time has come to sort something out - have 12 rounds, keep the 'classics' and let them run a bigger route.
As for the cars, I'm still not totally convinced by S2000/S2000+, but if it brings in more Teams, then okay - I'll be pleased with that.

[Tomi]

I know it wasn't wholly independent, but I think we might see privateer teams challenging the 2 official manufacturers again?
It would have to be a citroen in that case, and if citroen is continiuing as a worksteam it wont happen.

[MaSi]

now we can only wait what ford and citroen do it 2009 rally season or they
make same what subaru and Suzuki do it and fia must be
canceled wrc 2009

[Tomi]

now we can only wait what ford and citroen do it 2009 rally season or they
make same what subaru and Suzuki do it and fia must be
canceled wrc 2009

Or run the championship next year as privateers, that would be interesting.

[Daniel]

Where do you live?

The UK and might I add that I feel particularly for the people like yourself who are most affected by this.

[Mihai]

Someone on this forum once said that 1987 was the best WRC season ever because of the strong privateer field. Would it be the same in '09 ?

So after all it might be a good thing for the WRC that two works teams decided to quit... Just a theory!

[Corny]

It's like Ferrari leaving F1, what a shame..

[Nenukknak]

It's like Ferrari leaving F1, what a shame..

Except that Ferrari are winning,

I must agree with Daniel on this one.
Subaru leaving wrc is no big deal. Sure it is sad, but no sadder than there appalling results from the last years. It was an also-ran. So there won't be two subarus lurking at I don't know how much distance. The Imprezas were great once, and it and its drivers contributed a lot to also the popularity of WRC itself. But I don't think they contributed a lot in recent years.

The WRC is heading in a new direction soon anyway, and there were bound to be some manufacturers leaving and some new ones getting in. And two good manufacturers for now isn't that bad. There have been plenty of years in WRC where that was the case. It's not that the quantity that matters it's the quality. That goes for manufacturers as well as the championship itself. The lesser quality manufacturers are now gone, now it's time the championship gets rid of its lesser qualities, and we all know what those are.

The WRCclass was made very sick due to mismanagement and personal interest, and now the economic crisis gave it its mercy-shot. Let's see what the future brings. As far as I'm concerned it's just the same old circle with the WRC as it has always been.

From group 4 to group B to group A to WRC to..........

[Corny]

Except that Ferrari are winning,

Look at their history, they haven't always been ;)

[m4rk]

The end of an era. Subaru, espcially thanks to Mr McRae & Richards were THE team of the 90s. Its just a shame we wont see blue & yellow out on the stages ( well, hopefully not for long)

But, as with Honda in F1, it serves as a wake up call. As Pirelli Sporting Director Paul Hembry has said, a new era in the WRC is dawning. Lower costs and a nicer format should attract new/old manufactures to the sport.

Prodrive- I really hope they get back into top level rallying asap :)

[BDunnell]

Someone on this forum once said that 1987 was the best WRC season ever because of the strong privateer field. Would it be the same in '09 ?

So after all it might be a good thing for the WRC that two works teams decided to quit... Just a theory!

I have often praised the much-maligned 1987, but because it was just a very entertaining season (in Britain as well as the WRC) and not the number of privateers. In fact, the leading competition that year was largely between works entries.

[A.F.F.]

First, for the record, I disagree with Daniel.

Second, I very much agree with most of here. Subaru left great legacy to rallying. Literally :) Thanks for the great memories and hopefully some day they come back.

[Wim]

First, for the record, I disagree with Daniel.

Second, I very much agree with most of here. Subaru left great legacy to rallying. Literally :) Thanks for the great memories and hopefully some day they come back.

not alone this post is fantastic..at the start with Alen, everything went wrong..everybody laughed at subaru..then came Colin and afterwords Carlos...what a time...prodrive and subaru on the same side..Richard came along...subaru is in rallying like in the past the lancia/martini team..or ferrari @F1. Even now, when the results aren't there...the biggest crowd is blue..thanks subaru, thanks prodrive for 19 years a super hobby
We will miss the flat four fantastic sound..

[Daniel]

First, for the record, I disagree with Daniel.

Does it hurt to be full of such hatred? :p

[MrJan]

Truly awful news, and embarrassing for the WRC. But don't forget Citreon pulled out of the WRC for 2005, and Loeb still managed to win the title in a Kronos Xsara... I know it wasn't wholly independent, but I think we might see privateer teams challenging the 2 official manufacturers again?

Wasn't wholly independant?? :eek: The only non works thing about that bloody car was the paintjob ;) :p :

[tmx]

Truly awful news, and embarrassing for the WRC. But don't forget Citreon pulled out of the WRC for 2005, and Loeb still managed to win the title in a Kronos Xsara... I know it wasn't wholly independent, but I think we might see privateer teams challenging the 2 official manufacturers again?
there isn't anything independent about that, at all.

[curry]

Anyone that doesn't think that two manufactures pulling out of the WRC will not have flow effects doesn't really understanding how marketing and sponsorship work.

Look at Rally Australia this year (I know every rally is different):

1. Rally in Australia is far from a big deal with the public;
2. The biggest drawcards (Atkinson & Subaru) are now no longer; and
3. We are left with 2 manufactures and one (Citroen) is really not that big in Australia.

I reckon the Rally Australia organisers will be spewing.

[curry]

Atkinson stated to wrc.com:
I sort of knew something was going on, but I didn’t expect this. Now we have to figure out where to go from here. Nothing’s certain. To be honest it’s all still a bit of a shock. Obviously it’s disappointing - we put in four years at Subaru trying our best at every race. Now all I know is there’s nothing more planned.

It is unlikely that I will be competing on Rally Ireland in January. The team haven’t spoken to me. Not a word. I guess that’s just the way it is."


Geez, thats a bit average!

[Buzz Lightyear]

Solberg will announce in his blog, tomorrow the decision for his new team ...
http://www.pettersolberg.com/html/2008/12/16/subaru-trekker-seg-fra-vm-2009/?lang_pref=en

You think C4 Bozian with Henning no ?


Petter will never be paid again to drive a rally car, so why bother.

[userwave]

maybe SWRT needed to break ties with Prodrive and return in a few years with a new team and an organization that can prep a competitive car is what we can all hope for is what the FHI folks in Japan really have in mind..... :confused:


trying to be optimistic here...

[Koz]

Don't really seen Loeb sticking around after next year. He has nothing to prove, even if he did, there isnt anyone to prove it to.
PSA will get rid of Citroen too. But rest assured, Ford will be there, as long as it takes, till sonny is champ. (Even if he's the only car running :p )

Shame to see Subaru go, was a shame with Mitsubishi too, and Peugeot. Come on, these were the biggest name in the WRC, the Impreza, the Lancer and the 206. Now all gone and burried.
The trend for all three was to leave when they struggled with their cars too long.

Can we really expect more from a manufacturer that was once at the height of the sport to not having won a rally in, how many years was it?
It would have been a joke if they stayed in the WRC anyway.
They should have severed their link to prodrive years ago, and done things differently. Clearly, wishing and telling everyone that the next car will be better does nothing. And that's what they had been doing.
Hopefully a frest start for Subaru in 2010, this time surely they'll do things right.

Hopefully Petter and Chris get a good ride this year.

[Torsen]

Don't really seen Loeb sticking around after next year. He has nothing to prove, even if he did, there isnt anyone to prove it to.
PSA will get rid of Citroen too. But rest assured, Ford will be there, as long as it takes, till sonny is champ. (Even if he's the only car running :p )

Shame to see Subaru go, was a shame with Mitsubishi too, and Peugeot. Come on, these were the biggest name in the WRC, the Impreza, the Lancer and the 206. Now all gone and burried.
The trend for all three was to leave when they struggled with their cars too long.

Can we really expect more from a manufacturer that was once at the height of the sport to not having won a rally in, how many years was it?
It would have been a joke if they stayed in the WRC anyway.
They should have severed their link to prodrive years ago, and done things differently. Clearly, wishing and telling everyone that the next car will be better does nothing. And that's what they had been doing.
Hopefully a frest start for Subaru in 2010, this time surely they'll do things right.

Hopefully Petter and Chris get a good ride this year.

i'll be suprised if petter or chris get picked up... MAYBE chris but even that is doubtful in my mind...

also, i doubt subaru will be back... i'd be suprised to see them enter with an S2000 styled car...

[Maui J.]

Anyone that doesn't think that two manufactures pulling out of the WRC will not have flow effects doesn't really understanding how marketing and sponsorship work.

Look at Rally Australia this year (I know every rally is different):

1. Rally in Australia is far from a big deal with the public;
2. The biggest drawcards (Atkinson & Subaru) are now no longer; and
3. We are left with 2 manufactures and one (Citroen) is really not that big in Australia.

I reckon the Rally Australia organisers will be spewing.

Yep, I had plans to go to Rally Oz, but now I'll be heading to the World Mountainbike Champs in Canberra, that same weekend, instead.

Whoever becomes the Global Promoter will have their work cut out for them now. What a nightmare. Less manufacturers equates to less TV audience/spectators equates to less corporate sponsors. It's a downward slippery slope.
Good luck to them and the individual WRC event organiser as well.

[paxtech]

I guess Mitsubishi was holding off their comeback until the new WR Car rules are all finalized. So I think 2010 would be a good year for them. So far the Lancer have been selling well in most markets. And now in the Dakar they've used the Lancer brand as well instead of Pajero. And I'm guessing the're pretty busy in Trebur piecing together the next Lancer WRC.

I wonder where Isao Torii got assigned. Looks like they have a new man at MMSP where Isao used to be be president.

Too bad for Subaru. I guess Petter and Chris must be feeling the way Gigi did in 2005. Left on their own without a seat for next season.

I say it's good to have the new WR Car rules. Cheaper to run the WRC Program which would mean more Manufacturers will be able to afford it. More variety in the competition. It's really getting boring to watch WRC with only 4 guys running the show.

[pino]

Except that Ferrari are winning,

I must agree with Daniel on this one.
Subaru leaving wrc is no big deal. Sure it is sad, but no sadder than there appalling results from the last years. It was an also-ran. So there won't be two subarus lurking at I don't know how much distance. The Imprezas were great once, and it and its drivers contributed a lot to also the popularity of WRC itself. But I don't think they contributed a lot in recent years.



And I disagree with both you and Daniel :p : Yes Ferrari are winning but they had a long moment (20 years) where they did not win but their presence gave loads of prestige and honour to F1. Same goes for Subaru, they are not winning but many rallyfans loves this Team for their huge contribution (and great memories) to Rallying in many years. So as posted before I think this is a very sad moment for all rally-fans...no matter what ;)

[ricochet]

Driving Sports has more details regarding the Subaru WRC debacle:

http://www.drivingsports.com/site/2008/12/subaru-leaves-the-wrc-interview-with-fhi/

Includes an extensive Q&A between Prodrive and FHI.

[Gard]

Looks like Rally Norway will be in trouble. Most of their sponsors is based on Petter, Henning and Subarus participation.

[AndyRAC]

Looks like Rally Norway will be in trouble. Most of their sponsors is based on Petter, Henning and Subarus participation.

Oh dear, it looks as though the whole lot is about to come crashing down..... :confused:

[Tomi]

Looks like Rally Norway will be in trouble. Most of their sponsors is based on Petter, Henning and Subarus participation.

This is the reason why in WRC there need to be events whos organisers dont begin to choke soon as soon as something unexpected happens.

[Gard]

This is the reason why in WRC there need to be events whos organisers dont begin to choke soon as soon as something unexpected happens.

In current "climate" this will probably be impossible. Except maybe in Abu Dahbi and the likes

[Tomi]

In current "climate" this will probably be impossible. Except maybe in Abu Dahbi and the likes

I dont see what this has to do with organising a rally, it cant be based on Petter and Subaru, and if it is then they are playing in the wrong game.

[Daniel]

And I disagree with both you and Daniel :p :

Does it hurt to be so full of hatred? :p

[Tomi]

Does it hurt to be so full of hatred? :p

its not hatered, he is just jealous.

[Daniel]

I dont see what this has to do with organising a rally, it cant be based on Petter and Subaru, and if it is then they are playing in the wrong game.

Very true. It's a very silly strategy to be tied to one driver for your rally to survive.

[Gard]

I dont see what this has to do with organising a rally, it cant be based on Petter and Subaru, and if it is then they are playing in the wrong game.

Who do you really think pays for a event like this? Yes, the sponsors and the
spectators. When Subaru are one of the biggest sponsors and the spectators come to see Petter (and the others). what do you think will happen?

[Daniel]

Who do you really think pays for a event like this? Yes, the sponsors and the
spectators. When Subaru are one of the biggest sponsors and the spectators come to see Petter (and the others). what do you think will happen?
But you can't have an event based on one person. The organisers were fools to bank on Petter always being there.

[Gard]

But you can't have an event based on one person. The organisers were fools to bank on Petter always being there.

And how do you come to the conclusion that it's based on only one driver? this will only be the result of departure of a big sponsor and the main attraction. Do you believe organisers have huge amount of money? This would only be the last nail in the coffin

[Tomi]

Who do you really think pays for a event like this? Yes, the sponsors and the
spectators. When Subaru are one of the biggest sponsors and the spectators come to see Petter (and the others). what do you think will happen?

Yes the pay offcourse, bur surely the organiser has guarantees that agreed events will be run, dont they?

[Daniel]

And how do you come to the conclusion that it's based on only one driver? this will only be the result of departure of a big sponsor and the main attraction. Do you believe organisers have huge amount of money? This would only be the last nail in the coffin
Surely a proper organiser would have an agreement with their major sponsor before organising an event? Perhaps if Rally Norway needs Petter to survive then it's not really all that viable. Look at the Finns for example, they don't have any properly good drivers ( :p ) and still their event runs without problems :)

[A.F.F.]

And we never will have good drivers. Hence, nothing unexpected will happen. So it's easy to build a rally around that :D

[Iskald]

Rally Norway is not happy with Subarus decision, but the event will surely go as planned, with or without Petter Solberg (and actually most people here in Norway seems to think that Petter will be on the startline in february...).

Rally Norway had a disastrous first event in 2007, economywise - losing appr. 2,5 mill. Euros. In sporting terms it was a great success. As I`m sure it will be in 2009. Last reports tells that the organisers have been very effective in cutting costs for the coming event, and changes to the itinerary - with all stages being run twice on the same day - will make it even more attractive for paying spectators. IMO Rally Norway is not at all in any danger of being cancelled!

[Tomi]

IMO Rally Norway is not at all in any danger of being cancelled!

Thats good news, long time commitment and never to stop developing the event is the key to a good rally.

[BDunnell]

Surely a proper organiser would have an agreement with their major sponsor before organising an event? Perhaps if Rally Norway needs Petter to survive then it's not really all that viable. Look at the Finns for example, they don't have any properly good drivers ( :p ) and still their event runs without problems :)

I couldn't agree more. I'm no businessmen, but it's ridiculous as a business model, surely, to base your whole venture on one person being there? I'm not saying that this is what Norway has done, and from Iskald's post it appears as if it hasn't, but it's more of a general point. I very much doubt that the Swedish Rally only survived because of people like Blomqvist, Eklund, Ericsson and Eriksson taking part. It did so because it was a good event. Even today, I don't see why anything else is required. The same could be said of Rally GB, Germany and a host of others.

[BDunnell]

Thats good news, long time commitment and never to stop developing the event is the key to a good rally.

Absolutely. It then builds up into something that is just a good rally, full stop.

[ln-ops]

When Subaru are one of the biggest sponsors and the spectators come to see Petter (and the others). what do you think will happen?

Are you talking of Rally Norway? If so, Subaru (Norge) is no sponsor of the event at all. I'm not 100% sure, but i belive there talk going on to secure Foresters for FIA Security, 0-cars and so on, but no money.

Take a look at the bottom of their page, http://www.rallynorway.no, and you will se the sponsors they have as of today.

And, I think Petter will start Rally Norway :)

[RS]

Monday: Suzuki pull out of WRC
Tuesday: Subaru pull out of WRC
Wednesday: http://www.rallye-info.com/article.asp?sid=0&stid=7568

[BDunnell]

Monday: Suzuki pull out of WRC
Tuesday: Subaru pull out of WRC
Wednesday: http://www.rallye-info.com/article.asp?sid=0&stid=7568

Time, surely, to merge the IRC and the WRC forthwith?

[Daniel]

Time, surely, to merge the IRC and the WRC forthwith?
and take the IRC down with ****ty rules? No thanks :)

[BDunnell]

and take the IRC down with ****ty rules? No thanks :)

And do away with the current WRC? Yes please.

[OldF]

Driving Sports has more details regarding the Subaru WRC debacle:

http://www.drivingsports.com/site/2008/12/subaru-leaves-the-wrc-interview-with-fhi/

Includes an extensive Q&A between Prodrive and FHI.

Q Do you have the contract with two of the drivers for the next season?
A Yes, we will need to proceed with the cancellation of the contract.

Maybe Petter and Chris are free to go.

Usually I start reading the newspaper from the beginning but this morning I went straight to the sports pages. There DR told that: “We will continue the development of the Subaru together with the manufacturer. We will be back in the world rally championship in 2010”.

Lets hope so. Yesterday was a so bad day.

[Fischer]

I'm surprised that Citroen and Ford are still in for 2009, what's the point in investing millions into motorsport while nobody is buying your regular cars?

[Buzz Lightyear]

I'm surprised that Citroen and Ford are still in for 2009, what's the point in investing millions into motorsport while nobody is buying your regular cars?

While it may appear like apocalypse now, people are still buying cars... in Euroland, 854,698 cars were bought in November alone, at for example ~ €15,000 each, thats still €13 billion in one month, so calm down.

[Tomi]

I'm surprised that Citroen and Ford are still in for 2009, what's the point in investing millions into motorsport while nobody is buying your regular cars?

Im not, rally is still a relatively cheap motorsport compaired to for instance f1, and peple still buy cars, even not as many as before, the reason subaru and suzuki left was propably not the economic crises, more likely crap preformance.

[DonJippo]

Im not, rally is still a relatively cheap motorsport compaired to for instance f1, and peple still buy cars, even not as many as before, the reason subaru and suzuki left was propably not the economic crises, more likely crap preformance.

Plus that FIA decided to change tech regulations already 2010 instead of original plan 2011.

[Saabaru]

Am I the only one who thinks this is a good thing? Like them or not Subaru is a major icon for the WRC and now they are gone, with only two manufacturers left the F1A will have to wake up and smell the poop pile that they have been making for so long. I just hope that Ford decides to cut its motorsports budgets and pullout for the next few years as well. I have been calling for a truly independent world championship for years and now would be a great time for auto companies to do so. The F1A will never care what happens in the WRC (maybe even suppress it) as long as they have the F1 money machine.


This should be a day of mixed emotions for world rally fans everywhere; sad for the loss of Subaru but happy that the WRC might wake up and actually change. S2000+ could be the ticket but they will have to release any performance restrictions on the engines. Personally I would like to see rules like we have here in the U.S. but with paddle shift transmissions, a two liter cap on engine size with no restrictor.

[Daniel]

While it may appear like apocalypse now, people are still buying cars... in Euroland, 854,698 cars were bought in November alone, at for example ~ €15,000 each, thats still €13 billion in one month, so calm down.

Hahahahahahaha you think car makers are making money on the cars they are selling at the moment? :rotflmao:

I'm thinking about getting a Fiat Panda. Right now I could buy one new from an online broker for £5300 yet the RRP is £7543 do you really think Fiat is making anything on that car when you think that the broker is making a cut, the dealer they source it from is making a cut and the car needs to be shipped here from Poland? Prices are similarly down for pretty much all cars being sold new these days and that means that margins are wafer thin if not non-existant. There are yards full of new cars waiting to be sold these days. All the manufacturers are doing is selling the cars off cheaply to try and get some cash quick so as not to be left with cars when the poop really hits the fan next year.

Now is a great time to get a cheap car, now is not a good time to be a car maker trying to make a profit.

[alexlake]

Hahahahahahaha you think car makers are making money on the cars they are selling at the moment? :rotflmao:

I'm thinking about getting a Fiat Panda. Right now I could buy one new from an online broker for £5300 yet the RRP is £7543 do you really think Fiat is making anything on that car when you think that the broker is making a cut, the dealer they source it from is making a cut and the car needs to be shipped here from Poland? Prices are similarly down for pretty much all cars being sold new these days and that means that margins are wafer thin if not non-existant. There are yards full of new cars waiting to be sold these days. All the manufacturers are doing is selling the cars off cheaply to try and get some cash quick so as not to be left with cars when the poop really hits the fan next year.

Now is a great time to get a cheap car, now is not a good time to be a car maker trying to make a profit.

A friends father works for the local toyota garage, on the very few cars they are selling they are making an average of £1200, and thats before all the overheads of the garage, wages etc etc are paid for. they are on the brink of closing down :(

[Daniel]

A friends father works for the local toyota garage, on the very few cars they are selling they are making an average of £1200, and thats before all the overheads of the garage, wages etc etc are paid for. they are on the brink of closing down :(
Not good. Please don't think that I find it amusing that this is happening to people, I just found it amusing that someone doesn't realise the difference between turnover and profit.

[A.F.F.]

Wednesday: http://www.rallye-info.com/article.asp?sid=0&stid=7568


You don't have to look further for my fav team for now on :bounce:

[Daniel]

You don't have to look further for my fav team for now on :bounce:
Oh not this again :( God save us if Paasonen does a bloody rally with them! :p

[MrJan]

Hahahahahahaha you think car makers are making money on the cars they are selling at the moment? :rotflmao:

I'm thinking about getting a Fiat Panda. Right now I could buy one new from an online broker for £5300 yet the RRP is £7543 do you really think Fiat is making anything on that car when you think that the broker is making a cut, the dealer they source it from is making a cut and the car needs to be shipped here from Poland? Prices are similarly down for pretty much all cars being sold new these days and that means that margins are wafer thin if not non-existant. There are yards full of new cars waiting to be sold these days. All the manufacturers are doing is selling the cars off cheaply to try and get some cash quick so as not to be left with cars when the poop really hits the fan next year.

Now is a great time to get a cheap car, now is not a good time to be a car maker trying to make a profit.


This is Portbury Docks near Bristol where they store new cars before transport, I can't imagine how many places like this there are around the world that are filled with unsold cars:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bristol/content/images/2007/05/18/portbury3_470x300.jpg (http://www.bbc.co.uk/bristol/content/image_galleries/alternativelandmark_portburydocks_gallery.shtml?3)

[alexlake]

Not good. Please don't think that I find it amusing that this is happening to people, I just found it amusing that someone doesn't realise the difference between turnover and profit.
Its ok, I was just backing up your point :) :)

[Buzz Lightyear]

Hahahahahahaha you think car makers are making money on the cars they are selling at the moment? :rotflmao:

I'm thinking about getting a Fiat Panda. Right now I could buy one new from an online broker for £5300 yet the RRP is £7543 do you really think Fiat is making anything on that car when you think that the broker is making a cut, the dealer they source it from is making a cut and the car needs to be shipped here from Poland? Prices are similarly down for pretty much all cars being sold new these days and that means that margins are wafer thin if not non-existant. There are yards full of new cars waiting to be sold these days. All the manufacturers are doing is selling the cars off cheaply to try and get some cash quick so as not to be left with cars when the poop really hits the fan next year.

Now is a great time to get a cheap car, now is not a good time to be a car maker trying to make a profit.

OK, maybe not the best example, but the gross profit on a BMW (i.e. the direct cost of manufacturer) is about 40%, then the R&D and Marketing etc.. there after. The car manufacturers are still making money on cars, its just they didnt see the drop off in demand coming, so are having to take evasive action now.

For example, you can buy a BMW M3 in USA for $50K dollars, and the same car here in GB is £50K! Figure that out, when there was 2USD to the £.

OK if you making Fiat Pandas.. the story is quite different.

[Daniel]

OK, maybe not the best example, but the gross profit on a BMW (i.e. the direct cost of manufacturer) is about 40%, then the R&D and Marketing etc.. there after. The car manufacturers are still making money on cars, its just they didnt see the drop off in demand coming, so are having to take evasive action now.

For example, you can buy a BMW M3 in USA for $50K dollars, and the same car here in GB is £50K! Figure that out, when there was 2USD to the £.

OK if you making Fiat Pandas.. the story is quite different.

Taxes are different in all countries. There are a lot of things which can influence the price of a car. In Australia an M3 Coupe is about US$20K more than a comparable car in the US. Mainly because of luxury car tax. You need to compare apples with oranges. I somehow doubt that the docks are full of M3's though so this will be why their prices will stay firm and the prices of more popular models will go through the floor.

[Brother John]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLKnliJC9RU&eurl=http://www.autosportforum.be/showthread.php?t=45&page=155&feature=player_embedded

[bassist]

Well I think the writing was on the wall, but the rumouring of carrying on and the links with Gronholm didn`t help.But as we saw with Honda and F1, once their mind is made up, these manufacturers show no mercy! I think the championship is now `dead` in the water! Shame, because there are a lot of talented drivers out there, whose abilities will never be recognised. unless they have pots of money with them! Me, I think it`s great to see the old Escorts taking the spotlight again.Mix it all in with a few group `B` chargers, let the real enthusiasts control the sport, and we have a recipe for success! Might not make vast sums of cash,but, along with a lot of other minority sports, it might make it `fun` again! I could go on, but.................... :confused: Sarnau!

[Daniel]

http://www.sniffpetrol.com/wp-content/uploads/xmas08_sleigh.jpg bwahahahahahahahaa you have to admit it's funny :D

[MikeD]

Im not, rally is still a relatively cheap motorsport compaired to for instance f1...

While the WRC is clearly cheaper than F1, then I think you have to look at it as how much exposure do you get per invested penny ... and on that account I think F1 is the better investment.

[Tomi]

While the WRC is clearly cheaper than F1, then I think you have to look at it as how much exposure do you get per invested penny ... and on that account I think F1 is the better investment.

Depends how you look at it, for winning teams like Ferrari and Mclaren its propably a better investment, but even the smallest f1 teams budget is atleast 10 bigger than the biggest WRC teams budget, with that amount of money you could build a winning car and get much positive exposure, intead of getting negative exposure being a lapdog year after year in f1.

[Koz]

Depends how you look at it, for winning teams like Ferrari and Mclaren its propably a better investment, but even the smallest f1 teams budget is atleast 10 bigger than the biggest WRC teams budget, with that amount of money you could build a winning car and get much positive exposure, intead of getting negative exposure being a lapdog year after year in f1.

How many people know the name Force India F1? And how many people know the name of Mr. Loeb?
You would be surprised at how many people have NOT heard of the Xara. C4 is only known because it has a 'cute' glass roof. (Outside Europe)
People remember Burns, Mcrae and Makkinen. They don't remember much else.
If you look at F1, people still remember stuff Eddie Irvine getting smacked.

Exposure is exposure, is it positive exposure that some people in Spain have an issue with the colour of Lewis' skin? No. But it makes headlines, and thats attention to McLaren. I would say that kind of bull makes more money for them than actually winning the championship. Same with everything Lewis/Alonso. Everyone remembers them, and will. Not very many will remember Räikkönen and his championship.
People want drama, people want to see thing. People want rivalries. People want headlines. And the people will get what they want.
WRC can't compete unless we see JML punching/getting punched by Loeb. That would make headlines, people would be interested. Thankfully that will never happen, and the can stay in F1. But what can we do to make this more attractive for average people?

WRC, and rally in general can't provide that one thing. You cannot see "head-to-head" stuff. Which will always be the drawback.
With the newer generation, people who will only sit infront of the computers and TV, who are too lazy, and perhaps too busy to take 3 days of their lives to go watch a rally; for them F1 is just much easier to follow, rather the complex, long, and UNUNDERSTANDABLE format that the WRC has become. Add to that no real sideways spectical, and what do you have left?

As for the Subaru and Mitsi success in the world and why they are icons?
Simples, you can go to the shop and buy what appers to be the same thing as the rally car. People love that. Maybe if Pugeot had a 300hp - 4WD in their lineup, people would actually want to buy it? (I know I probably would) And maybe they too would have the attention the Subaru and Mitsi had?

[miksu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLKnliJC9RU&eurl=http://www.autosportforum.be/showthread.php?t=45&page=155&feature=player_embedded

what was he thinking when he tried to go back.... jump to the ground and just step back to the car?!? eh...

[Viking]

Atko
I have to drive something:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24820814-11088,00.html

[bluuford]

How many people know the name Force India F1? And how many people know the name of Mr. Loeb?


Sorry, but what is Force India F1. I asked it from my wife and she thought that it is new Fighter in Indian air force.

I asked who is Loeb. She was even able to write his first name correctly :-)

[MrJan]

Sorry, but what is Force India F1. I asked it from my wife and she thought that it is new Fighter in Indian air force.

I asked who is Loeb. She was even able to write his first name correctly :-)

In shocking discovery it transpires that man on rally forum has a wife who has heard of Loeb :eek: :p :

[TKM]

Stuff Force India, what's F1 (other than boring). Oh hang on, so's WRC.

Really though, WTF is Force India?

[Buzz Lightyear]

Atko
I have to drive something:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24820814-11088,00.html


"I think of the options that are available they require sponsorship to be brought," he said.

"It wouldn't be ideal. That's not what I want to do."

right... totally committed then.

[RS]

Really though, WTF is Force India?

Used to be Jordan, then Midland, then Spyker.

The original poster has a point though. Don't know about elsewhere, but if I stopped 100 people in my highstreet I wonder how many would know who Mikko Hirvonen was? 1%, maybe.

[Tomi]

I wonder how many would know who Mikko Hirvonen was? 1%, maybe.

Here maybe 60-70% would know, but if you would ask for instance them to give the name of any cricket player, the result would be i guess around 1% that could give.

[Lalo]

Poor Guy Wilks.. No more third works Subaru with a Brit behind the wheel...

[RS]

Here maybe 60-70% would know, but if you would ask for instance them to give the name of any cricket player, the result would be i guess around 1% that could give.

Fair point, but then I guess the car market in Finland is not huge.

[jonkka]

Used to be Jordan, then Midland, then Spyker.

You should be banned from rallying forums for knowing such things - and publicly admitting that.

[jonkka]

In shocking discovery it transpires that man on rally forum has a wife who has heard of Loeb :eek: :p :

I am more shocked to find that rally forum members actually have wifes.

[RS]

You should be banned from rallying forums for knowing such things - and publicly admitting that.

Hehe, yeah, maybe.

But F1 was a lot more exciting than WRC this year :)

[Tomi]

Fair point, but then I guess the car market in Finland is not huge.

im not so sure if the car market has much to do with what sports are popular.

[RS]

im not so sure if the car market has much to do with what sports are popular.

If you read back we were talking about marketing return of different sports. The manufacturers in WRC are marketing cars I do believe.

[Allyc85]

Poor Guy Wilks.. No more third works Subaru with a Brit behind the wheel...

Thats one of the most disappointing things for me. The fact that Guy has worked extreamly hard to get close to his dream, only for it to be taken away at the last minute. I wonder if Stobart would be interested in him?

[Daniel]

Thats one of the most disappointing things for me. The fact that Guy has worked extreamly hard to get close to his dream, only for it to be taken away at the last minute. I wonder if Stobart would be interested in him?
How many millions does Guy have? :)

[OldF]

In shocking discovery it transpires that man on rally forum has a wife who has heard of Loeb :eek: :p :

I have one. One of her quotes: Get you’re a*s of the chair and away from that f**king computer: Those this sounds familiar for someone? I don’t feel that I’ve done some wrong???

[ST205GT4]

I have one. One of her quotes: Get you’re a*s of the chair and away from that f**king computer: Those this sounds familiar for someone? I don’t feel that I’ve done some wrong???

Hahahaha...I've just been told "that's enough time on that f**king thing!"

On the other hand she doesn't mind watching the WRC because she loves looking at Loeb!

[Corny]

I remember an interview with Petter Solberg some 2 or 3 years ago where he said:

'I'm not the type of a guy who starts running away when things doesn't get better, I remain calm and I know that we can come back'..

Maybe not the exact words, but it was like this.

Well Petter, you should have thought again at that moment :p Didn't get a single win after

[Reuben]

i dont think i will watch the WRC next year because theres only two manafacturs Ctroen and ford and citroen might go to F1 so it will be quite boring next year

[Reuben]

i dont hink i will watch the wrc next year because there will be only two manufaturs and citreon might go to F1 so it will be quite boring

[Anti-Lag-Rocks]

I am stoked that Chris will be lining up in Ireland in a C4... What unexpected Christmas Eve news, let's hope a good result and more events will follow...

[Daniel]

i dont hink i will watch the wrc next year because there will be only two manufaturs and citreon might go to F1 so it will be quite boring

PSA have categorically stated that they are not interested in taking over the Honda team.

[Brother John]

Now it become clear why Subaru, or better said " Fuji Heavy Industries" has leave the wrc. :s mokin:

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/r/int/d5/n5/d/2009/02/08/subaru-vor-einstieg-in-die-irc/index.html

[J.Lindstroem]

Now it become clear why Subaru, or better said " Fuji Heavy Industries" has leave the wrc. :s mokin:

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/r/int/d5/n5/d/2009/02/08/subaru-vor-einstieg-in-die-irc/index.html

With the Group-N car or will they convert a car into S2000?

[Brother John]

With the Group-N car or will they convert a car into S2000?

Group N car.

[J.Lindstroem]

Group N car.

Could be interesting. Whould love it wíth Flodin as a driver also!

[Langdale Forest]

Have now got the 2008 - 2009 Rally Yearbook.