The UK is going to the Dogs.. so says Ray Winstone and Fred Basset(t)

[Fred Basset]

Totaly agree with Ray on this and thats all part of the reason we got out of the UK and moved to America. There is no "Great" in Great Britain anymore

Too expensive to live there.
Too crowded for an island and only going to get worse..
Too much immigration, both legal and illegal
Wheres all the "green belt" going?
Yet another story of a man getting beaten to a pulp by teens for protecting his property.. theres one of these almost every week

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/moslive/article-1089235/Ray-Winstone-unleashed-A-suitably-terrifying-encounter-Britains-hardest-actor.html

My American friends over here just have no idea how good life is here compared to the UK

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Totaly agree with Ray on this and thats all part of the reason we got out of the UK. There is no "Great" in Great Britain anymore

Too expensive to live there.
Too crowded for an island and only going to get worse..
Too much immigration, both legal and illegal
Wheres all the "green belt" going?
Yet another story of a man getting beaten to a pulp by teens for protecting his property.. theres one of these almost every week

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/moslive/article-1089235/Ray-Winstone-unleashed-A-suitably-terrifying-encounter-Britains-hardest-actor.html

My American friends over here just have no idea how good life is here compared to the UK

You say anymore, implying that it was once great.

Well if World wars and 3 day weeks are your sort of thing then yes, Britain has gone to the dogs. If they're not, then you've never had it so good.

[Fred Basset]

To "edit"

Thought it best to mention for those that don't know that i now live in the USA :dog:

[BDunnell]

What an absolute load of old tosh, based on the right-wing rantings of one of the most appalling newspapers in the world.

[Fred Basset]

What an absolute load of old tosh, based on the right-wing rantings of one of the most appalling newspapers in the world.

Well rather than just coming out with a load of old tosh... explain why?
I agree actually with him very much hence i moved 6000 miles

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Well rather than just coming out with a load of old tosh... explain why?
I agree actually with him very much hence i moved 6000 miles

You say it's crowded and getting worse. But Britain has quite static population growth, plus a shortage of younger people of a working age.

[BDunnell]

Well rather than just coming out with a load of old tosh... explain why?
I agree actually with him very much hence i moved 6000 miles

In short, because I still live in the UK and my experience continues to be perfectly OK, thank you very much. I don't understand what there is to be so depressed about, economic circumstances notwithstanding. And the Daily Mail is not to be trusted under any circumstances.

[Fred Basset]

Ah well thats nice that your having a good time. I should have really expected that comment from you about the Mail. Me? I happen to like that paper as i believe they tell it how it us. Yes they have an agenda, show me a paper that doesn't. We wern't having a good time. We were just working to live so we sold the house at the peak of the boom and moved here and now own our own business which has been featured on national tv and will be featured for the 4th time in our State daily paper tomorrow. Lakes, streams, forests and mountains all close by... pretty good really

[Jag_Warrior]

My American friends over here just have no idea how good life is here compared to the UK

It depends on where you live "over here". ;)

If you live in Palos Verdes or Pacific Palisades, yeah, life is probably pretty good: only 83 more payments til the Aston DB9 is paid off and the wife is getting 10% off on her next round of plastic surgery - woohoo!!! Life in East L.A. is probably not so great: Jose smoked Paco last night with his .40, over who was really Maria's baby daddy. A stray bullet came through the wall and killed my 5 year old. I'd say on a given day, the above represents life in those respective places.

Inside of the extremes on both sides of the chart, maybe things are better in the U.S. than in the U.K., in the middle... hard to say.

[BDunnell]

Ah well thats nice that your having a good time. I should have really expected that comment from you about the Mail. Me? I happen to like that paper as i believe they tell it how it us. Yes they have an agenda, show me a paper that doesn't. We wern't having a good time. We were just working to live so we sold the house at the peak of the boom and moved here and now own our own business which has been featured on national tv and will be featured for the 4th time in our State daily paper tomorrow. Lakes, streams, forests and mountains all close by... pretty good really

What's all that got to do with the UK being so terrible, then? Nothing, I'd say. I have a perfectly nice time in the UK. So does almost everyone else I know. There are little bits to complain about, but no more than that. I don't have a problem getting around because of the huge crowds of immigrants that certain sections of the press would have us believe have overcrowded the nation. I don't begrudge the fact that some of my taxes go towards immigrants, either. I feel able to say anything I want in spite of the 'political correctness' that we are told means that we 'can't say anything any more'. I am generally able to go about my business with no great problems to speak of. Yes, Britain is an expensive place to live, but why is this? Market forces, that's what — something you presumably believe in, unless you are a socialist, which somehow I doubt. I don't like the concept but it's the best we have.

And you are quite right to expect that sort of comment from me about the Mail. It is far from merely having an agenda — it is a hateful, scaremongering, racist, xenophobic homophobic paper that plays on the groundless fears of the most witless sections of its readership.

[Tazio]

What an absolute load of old tosh, based on the right-wing rantings of one of the most appalling newspapers in the world.I tend to respect your opinnions on social issues.
The United States of America is extremely diverse in its geography as well as
Socio-economic, political, and demographic conditions! Paid vacations (or holidays as you may call them) are almost unheard of lower middle income earners. In current conditions middle income earners can't even afford to take two weeks off a year for even a domestic vacation. Blue collar workers would be concerned about still having a job to come back to if they took two weeks off! Overall the U.S. is a comfortable place is to live if you have half a brain! Very nice if your in the top 10% of income earners

Fred It is understandable why you have your preferance. For the less enterprising isn't this really just a case of the grass being greener on the other side of the hill?

[Fred Basset]

And you are quite right to expect that sort of comment from me about the Mail. It is far from merely having an agenda — it is a hateful, scaremongering, racist, xenophobic homophobic paper that plays on the groundless fears of the most witless sections of its readership.

And if you believe that, you'll believe anything. :laugh:

[BDunnell]

And if you believe that, you'll believe anything. :laugh:

You have clearly been reading a different paper to the one I occasionally glance at and then spit on for the benefit of the purchaser.

[Drew]

Life is what you make of it!

And the mail is just blatant rubbish and lies or trying to twist the truth, but then so are pretty much all of the newspapers in the UK. Everywhere has its upsides and downsides. Personally I could never live in the USA, but the downsides are bigger than the upsides for me!

[BDunnell]

Life is what you make of it!

Exactly.



And the mail is just blatant rubbish and lies or trying to twist the truth, but then so are pretty much all of the newspapers in the UK.

Some more than others.

[Fred Basset]

Thanks BDunnell for ruining the thread. I'll not bother again

Cheerio

[BDunnell]

Thanks BDunnell for ruining the thread. I'll not bother again

Cheerio

In what way? I was merely stating my opinions, which are very vehement on this subject. If you don't like the fact I disagree strongly, that's hardly my problem. I note, by the way, that you haven't offered a single proper response to any of the points made against you here. Isn't this what a discussion board is for?

[donKey jote]

This thread is going to the dogs... so says Fred Basset(t) :dozey:

:s nore:

[Brown, Jon Brow]

A thread about the Daily Mail
It was clearly going to fail.

Daily Fail :dozey:

[savage86]

Thanks BDunnell for ruining the thread. I'll not bother again

Cheerio

Weren’t you banned?

You have not changed Fred all your interested in is your own opinion and no one else’s. I don’t know why you bother coming on forums with other people you might as well just make one for yourself.

[Mark]

Totaly agree with Ray on this and thats all part of the reason we got out of the UK and moved to America. There is no "Great" in Great Britain anymore

Too expensive to live there.
Too crowded for an island and only going to get worse..
Too much immigration, both legal and illegal
Wheres all the "green belt" going?
Yet another story of a man getting beaten to a pulp by teens for protecting his property.. theres one of these almost every week

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/moslive/article-1089235/Ray-Winstone-unleashed-A-suitably-terrifying-encounter-Britains-hardest-actor.html

My American friends over here just have no idea how good life is here compared to the UK

hmm, you could write similar complaints about the USA. You live in the USA and you like it better. Great, good for you. Now; quit rubbishing the country of your birth. You lost the right to do that when you left. It's the job of those of us who live here to complain!

[GridGirl]

Lakes, streams, forests and mountains all close by... pretty good really

This did make me chuckle. The UK is such a small country that lakes, stream, forests and mountains are close by anyway. :p

Why is it more and more common that people when moving away from the UK state immigration issues as one of their reasons for leaving? Do they not realise that they become immigrants in the foreign country they move too? :s What do the residents of those countries think of the UK invasion? :p

[wedge]

Lakes, streams, forests and mountains all close by... pretty good really

Not when you have Dick Cheney or Sarah Palin roaming

[Bezza]

Totaly agree with Ray on this and thats all part of the reason we got out of the UK and moved to America. There is no "Great" in Great Britain anymore

Too expensive to live there.
Too crowded for an island and only going to get worse..
Too much immigration, both legal and illegal
Wheres all the "green belt" going?
Yet another story of a man getting beaten to a pulp by teens for protecting his property.. theres one of these almost every week

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/moslive/article-1089235/Ray-Winstone-unleashed-A-suitably-terrifying-encounter-Britains-hardest-actor.html

My American friends over here just have no idea how good life is here compared to the UK


A phrase springs to mind...it involves the words "frying pan" and "fire".

[BDunnell]

A phrase springs to mind...it involves the words "frying pan" and "fire".

Very fair point.

[BDunnell]

Why is it more and more common that people when moving away from the UK state immigration issues as one of their reasons for leaving? Do they not realise that they become immigrants in the foreign country they move too? :s What do the residents of those countries think of the UK invasion? :p

I love the idea of Brits in their second/holiday homes in Spain or wherever moaning, as they surely do, about the level of immigration and lack of integration in the UK.

[BDunnell]

hmm, you could write similar complaints about the USA. You live in the USA and you like it better. Great, good for you. Now; quit rubbishing the country of your birth. You lost the right to do that when you left. It's the job of those of us who live here to complain!

As long as we can still also complain about other countries, that's fine by me.

[BDunnell]

A thread about the Daily Mail
It was clearly going to fail.

I didn't know there was a little bit of Wordsworth in you!

[BeansBeansBeans]

Speed cameras, muslims, gays, the police, Tony Blair, Abu Hamza, Russell Brand, The French, bi-weekly bin collections, taxes...etc

You couldn't make it up.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Yet another story of a man getting beaten to a pulp by teens for protecting his property.. theres one of these almost every week

Phew. Thank god you've moved to the violent-crime-free utopia of the USA.

[donKey jote]

I love the idea of Brits in their second/holiday homes in Spain or wherever moaning, as they surely do, about the level of immigration and lack of integration in the UK.

Ah the Costa del Íngleys (sic)... it would be hard to tell what they moan about most - the UK or the "natives" :laugh:

:dozey:

[LotusElise]

There are always times when we have to face up to difficulties, and things are far from perfect here in the UK, but I still don't want to live anywhere else.

Talk about "the country going to the dogs" has been going on since time immemorial - in the 1920s it was women causing a stir, in the 1950s, Teddy Boys and West Indian immigrants, the 60s, Mods, Rockers and feminists, the 70s, punks, immigrants and all kinds of political activists, and in the 80s it was gay people and unemployed people. I could go on, but this sentence is far too long as it is!

Despite all this outrage, we're still here, and I can't hear any barking...

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I suppose people just assume 'change' is a bad thing.

[BDunnell]

I suppose people just assume 'change' is a bad thing.

I love it. Keeps life interesting. Unless it's a change to the layout of the supermarket, in which case I come over all of a quiver.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I suppose people just assume 'change' is a bad thing.


I love it. Keeps life interesting. Unless it's a change to the layout of the supermarket, in which case I come over all of a quiver.

Well, by 'people' I mean The Daily Fail and its readers.

[BDunnell]

Well, by 'people' I mean The Daily Fail and its readers.

Absolutely. I wish they knew, in all their pompous moralising, just how foul-mouthed the paper's editor is and how unscrupulous some of its journalists have been, even beyond usual Fleet Street standards. They should read Flat Earth News by Nick Davies for a truly balanced view.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Absolutely. I wish they knew, in all their pompous moralising, just how foul-mouthed the paper's editor is and how unscrupulous some of its journalists have been, even beyond usual Fleet Street standards. They should read [i]Flat Earth News[/b] by Nick Davies for a truly balanced view.

I gave up on newspapers after reading The Tiger that Isn't by Michael Blastland and Andrew Dilnot. It basically explained how newspapers manipulate statistics to prove what they want.

I tend to get most of my news from The Economist these days.

[BDunnell]

I gave up on newspapers after reading The Tiger that Isn't by Michael Blastland and Andrew Dilnot. It basically explained how newspapers manipulate statistics to prove what they want.

I tend to get most of my news from The Economist these days.

Not a huge fan of that either, if I'm honest. It too has an agenda to pursue, although it does so in less questionable ways than many newspapers. I still think the BBC in all its forms is the best outlet of all.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Not a huge fan of that either, if I'm honest. It too has an agenda to pursue, although it does so in less questionable ways than many newspapers. I still think the BBC in all its forms is the best outlet of all.

If I'm online then the BBC is where I always go for news.

I can see why you wouldn't like The Economist because it is fiscally conservative. They think every economic problem will be solved by De-regulation and privatisation. But it also supports social liberalism.
It is quite neutral in its politics. It has supported both Labour and Conservative, Democrat and Republican.

The main reason I read it though is for my University degree :)

[BDunnell]

If I'm online then the BBC is where I always go for news.

I can see why you wouldn't like The Economist because it is fiscally conservative. They think every economic problem will be solved by De-regulation and privatisation. But it also supports social liberalism.
It is quite neutral in its politics. It has supported both Labour and Conservative, Democrat and Republican.

The main reason I read it though is for my University degree :)

This is all true, but as you suggest I find it a bit too conservative for my tastes.

[Tazio]

"BBC World" is on for one half hour week nights on PBS in San Diego! It is followed by
"The News Hour with Jim Lehrer" Between those two I feel I get a clue as to what's happenning in the world.
I also read the New York Times when I have time!
But my favorite is "Mother Jones" :)
http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/tomdispatch/2008/11/truth-teller-for-our-times.html

[Mark]

It's too cold today. I'd rather be living somewhere warm :p

[Drew]

Let's just hope he can still get health insurance, cos god knows if he can't he'll be on the first plane back home :\

Anyway all I know is that the pound is going to the dogs and it's taking me with it!

[Daniel]

With all due respect Fred this is silly. I really like living in the UK and I came from Australia which is where most Brits seem to want to go :mark:

I love the fact that if I want to buy something I go on t'internet, order it and it's here tomorrow which doesn't happen in Australia. I love the fact that I drive for 30 minutes and I'm in beautiful Snowdonia. I like the fact that I can get just about anywhere in Europe from Manchester (an hours drive) in a couple of hours.

If you lived in a hole in the UK you only have yourself to blame for staying there. I've been through a lot of cities in the UK, Manchester, Newcastle, London, Leeds and Edinburgh and with the exception of Edinburgh and Newcastle I've hated them all. Other people live in cities and are fine so who am I to say what is good and what is not when my requirements are different. I like life here in North Wales and I don't plan on moving anytime soon other than to another place in the same area.

I'm happy you're happy in the US Fred :) But don't think that the UK isn't perfectly fine for the rest of us :)

[Tazio]

Let's just hope he can still get health insurance, When you carry the full burden (business owners, and upwardly mobiles usually do)
You’re looking at between $75 and $150 per month,
with co-pays of about $10 to $20 for Office visits, and prescriptions!
Some of this can be defrayed with tax write-offs
You can pay less if you want a large deductable.

[Hazell B]

Please stop being mean to Fred - he's made a good point in fact.

The UK's not great any more. It stinks in places and those places are getting bigger by the day. The police do nothing unless you admit to commiting a crime or are a motorist (trust me, they've had two complaints against them from me this year - both upheld), the youths don't seem on the whole to want to be part of decent society, homeowners aren't part of the entire street 'family' any more (do you all know your neighbours?) and leaders appear bent and twisted more and more.

I love this country, but hate what it's become in some areas. When people are proud to wear fake England football shirts, yet don't know the national anthem it says it all really. Chavs.

[Daniel]

Please stop being mean to Fred - he's made a good point in fact.

The UK's not great any more. It stinks in places and those places are getting bigger by the day. The police do nothing unless you admit to commiting a crime or are a motorist (trust me, they've had two complaints against them from me this year - both upheld), the youths don't seem on the whole to want to be part of decent society, homeowners aren't part of the entire street 'family' any more (do you all know your neighbours?) and leaders appear bent and twisted more and more.

I love this country, but hate what it's become in some areas. When people are proud to wear fake England football shirts, yet don't know the national anthem it says it all really. Chavs.

The thing is you're describing the same thing people in all countries complain about. The kids are horrible, the underclass is horrible, the Police are ineffective and so on.

I sadly know all of my neighbours. They're all a bunch of grumpy old farts or grumpy middle aged farts but that's not to say all people around here are like that, we're just unlucky. I live in a really nice bit of Wales where I can walk for literally a minute and be out in a farmers field then for another 5 minutes and be out in some nice woods. I've said to Caroline that if she lived in a city in the UK it would be likely that I'd have asked her to sell up and come live in Australia as I much prefer Perth to most of the cities I've been in here. But I made my decision and I'm happy with it.

Life is what you make of it. If you don't like where you live then you have every choice to move.......

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Please stop being mean to Fred - he's made a good point in fact.

The UK's not great any more. It stinks in places and those places are getting bigger by the day...........................................


When was it great?

[BDunnell]

Please stop being mean to Fred - he's made a good point in fact.

No he hasn't. In my opinion, and clearly the opinions of a lot of other people, he's made a spectacularly ignorant point. And none of us are being mean — we're disagreeing strongly with what he said. Would you like us all to agree meekly or keep our traps shut?



The UK's not great any more. It stinks in places and those places are getting bigger by the day. The police do nothing unless you admit to commiting a crime or are a motorist (trust me, they've had two complaints against them from me this year - both upheld)...

Of course the police, for all their faults, do things outside the boundaries you describe. Even as a generalisation your alleged facts are seriously wide of the mark. And you seem to suggest that the police were bastions of excellence before, when this was clearly not the case. Do you remember the Birmingham Six, the Guildford Four, the serious institutional racism and the serious institutional corruption that used to exist within police forces? A bit of perspective wouldn't go amiss.


...the youths don't seem on the whole to want to be part of decent society...

What an insulting thing to say in relation to 'the youths' who are perfectly decent, upstanding citizens and will continue to be so. There are many of them, but unfortunately we rarely hear about them. Down the years, people have always moaned about the 'younger generation' and its perceived faults. This will never change. The fact is that today's 'younger generation' are largely no worse than their predecessors. In many ways, they are better, for fewer young people are surely being brought up in ways that will lead to their being racist, sexist, homophobic, etc than used to be the case.


...homeowners aren't part of the entire street 'family' any more (do you all know your neighbours?)...

No. Why should I? In fact, I have never known my neighbours, and don't feel antisocial as a result. Why this is classed as a sign of the breakdown of society I don't know.


...and leaders appear bent and twisted more and more...

Again, you are looking at things without any true historical perspective. If you had any knowledge of the political scandals of the past, you would realise that today's crop of leaders is no better or worse than their predecessors.


When people are proud to wear fake England football shirts, yet don't know the national anthem it says it all really. Chavs.

I don't know the national anthem. Why should I? In fact, as a republican, I am proud to not know it. Does this make me a bad person? (I would consider it a badge of honour to be labelled as such by anyone who comes out with lines such as 'The UK's not great any more', I have to say.)

In short, I would really dislike the sort of blandly conformist (on the grounds that everything else is somehow 'disrespectful'), line-toeing, vaguely right-wing nation you seem to want everyone to live in.

[BDunnell]

The thing is you're describing the same thing people in all countries complain about. The kids are horrible, the underclass is horrible, the Police are ineffective and so on.

Absolutely right. And people have complained about these things since time immemorial.



Life is what you make of it. If you don't like where you live then you have every choice to move.......

And you have that choice even if you do like where you live, because you might just fancy a change or a new experience.

[BDunnell]

When was it great?

Generally, people who think that Britain isn't great any more seem to have an idealised view of the country as it was before the Suez Crisis and the advent of those terrible rock-and-roll rhythms.

[Daniel]

When was it great?

Perhaps Hazell is thinking of the days when the UK was great on the back of slavery and opression of native peoples in countries across the empire. Yeah I'd love to go back to the days when Britain was considered in the same light as the USA is today :rolleyes:

[Tazio]

The thing is you're describing the same thing people in all countries complain about. The kids are horrible, the underclass is horrible, the Police are ineffective and so on.

I sadly know all of my neighbours. They're all a bunch of grumpy old farts or grumpy middle aged farts but that's not to say all people around here are like that, we're just unlucky. I live in a really nice bit of Wales where I can walk for literally a minute and be out in a farmers field then for another 5 minutes and be out in some nice woods. I've said to Caroline that if she lived in a city in the UK it would be likely that I'd have asked her to sell up and come live in Australia as I much prefer Perth to most of the cities I've been in here. But I made my decision and I'm happy with it.

Life is what you make of it. If you don't like where you live then you have every choice to move....... Truer words were never spoken! Word up, and case closed! I'm about to go philosophical on you @sses:



Everybody I talk to is ready to leave
With the light of the morning
They've seen the end coming down long enough to believe
That they've heard their last warning
Standing alone
Each has his own ticket in his hand
And as the evening descends
I sit thinking 'bout Everyman

Seems like I've always been looking for some other place
To get it together
Where with a few of my friends I could give up the race
And maybe find something better
But all my fine dreams
Well thought out schemes to gain the motherland
Have all eventually come down to waiting for Everyman

Waiting here for Everyman-
Make it on your own if you think you can
If you see somewhere to go I understand
Waiting here for Everyman-
Don't ask me if he'll show - baby I don't know

Make it on your own if you think you can
Somewhere later on you'll have to take a stand
Then you're going to need a hand

Everybody's just waiting to hear from the one
Who can give them the answers
And lead them back to that place in the warmth of the sun
Where sweet childhood still dances
Who'll come along
And hold out that strong and gentle father's hand?
Long ago I heard someone say something 'bout Everyman

Waiting here for Everyman-
Make it on your own if you think you can
If you see somewhere to go I understand

I'm not trying to tell you that I've seen the plan
Turn and walk away if you think I am-
But don't think too badly of one who's left holding sand
He's just another dreamer,
Dreaming 'bout Everyman.

[SOD]

remember folks, the grass is only green where you water it.

Fred, I saw someone write about you elsewhere. Congratulations, you sold your gaff at the top of the market and managed to buy a viable business in the USA. One thing you should realise is that not many Americans are accorded that opportunity.

BTW, have you flown over the UK recently? seems to be mostly greeen space to me!

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Generally, people who think that Britain isn't great any more seem to have an idealised view of the country as it was before the Suez Crisis and the advent of those terrible rock-and-roll rhythms.

Sounds a bit like the BNP manifesto that I read the other day. They would like Britain to return to how it was pre-1949 :rolleyes:

[BDunnell]

Sounds a bit like the BNP manifesto that I read the other day. They would like Britain to return to how it was pre-1949 :rolleyes:

With a proper socialist government as elected in 1945, then? Or at war with Germany?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Perhaps Hazell is thinking of the days when the UK was great on the back of slavery and opression of native peoples in countries across the empire. Yeah I'd love to go back to the days when Britain was considered in the same light as the USA is today :rolleyes:

That was the point I was trying to make. Was it ever any better than it is now?

Is the definition of a 'great' country one that has a vast empire? or is successful in wars? etc.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

With a proper socialist government as elected in 1945, then? Or at war with Germany?

I think they (BNP) were thinking in terms of the ethnicity of the population.

[Daniel]

That was the point I was trying to make. Was it ever any better than it is now?

Is the definition of a 'great' country one that has a vast empire? or is successful in wars? etc.
I know and I agree :p

[Captain VXR]

The guardian is even worse than the Daily Fail imo.
Some teenagers are fine and the others are not, thats just how life goes. However, more discipline should be used on the chavs such as National Service

[BDunnell]

The guardian is even worse than the Daily Fail imo.

OK, give us some examples of its irresponsible, inaccurate, hatred-stirring reporting, then. I can't think of any that even come close to the examples one could cite from the Mail.


However, more discipline should be used on the chavs such as National Service

Ah, that old chestnut. It's a ridiculous example, if I may say so. A load of chavs is really what the forces need in their ranks, isn't it? These are professional forces we're talking about. And you only have to go to somewhere like Aldershot on a Friday or Saturday night to see that being in the forces does not instill good discipline in people.

[Drew]

The guardian is even worse than the Daily Fail imo.
Some teenagers are fine and the others are not, thats just how life goes. However, more discipline should be used on the chavs such as National Service

Why stop at teenagers? Who are the most likely to commit crimes? Adults! They should be heavily opressed just in case!

I've also come to the conclusion that the people make a huge difference. I mean who would live in Italy without Italians? :p :

[BeansBeansBeans]

I love reading the Daily Mail website, primarily because the reader comments are absolutely hysterical.

[jim mcglinchey]

When you carry the full burden (business owners, and upwardly mobiles usually do)
You’re looking at between $75 and $150 per month,
with co-pays of about $10 to $20 for Office visits, and prescriptions!
Some of this can be defrayed with tax write-offs
You can pay less if you want a large deductable.

Why do Americans cry so much about their taxes. You know, tax freedom day, the date in the year when you have earned enough to pay your taxes for that year, for the average American is around April 11th , while for the average Briton its June 7th.

[BDunnell]

I love reading the Daily Mail website, primarily because the reader comments are absolutely hysterical.

I'm afraid I now just get worked up by them!

[LotusElise]

Ah, that old chestnut. It's a ridiculous example, if I may say so. A load of chavs is really what the forces need in their ranks, isn't it? These are professional forces we're talking about. And you only have to go to somewhere like Aldershot on a Friday or Saturday night to see that being in the forces does not instill good discipline in people.

I totally agree with you on that point. My dad used to work for the MOD, doing maintenance on an army base, and the stories about what went on (or what got damaged, usually with explosives) were hair-curling.

As I said before, pretty much every decade we haven't been at war, there's been some horrendous force or group out to wreck society, be that women, youth gangs, feminists, immigrants, pit bull terriers or gay people. Strangely enough, they've mot managed yet.

[BeansBeansBeans]

I'm afraid I now just get worked up by them!

It doesn't half keep me amused at work.

There was a story on there the other day about how parents tend to play pop songs to their young children nowadays, instead of the more traditional nursery rhymes.

The first comment:

Why do the PC brigade have to ruin everything?

[Daniel]

there's been some horrendous force or group out to wreck society, be that women.

She speaks the truth! :p

[Tazio]

Why do Americans cry so much about their taxes. You know, tax freedom day, the date in the year when you have earned enough to pay your taxes for that year, for the average American is around April 11th , while for the average Briton its June 7th.
Not all American complain!
The only explanation I can give you for the ones that do is, Greed and/or ignorance!!!

Oh say does that Star Spangled banner yet wave?
O'er the land of the gullible, and the home of the greedy

Saying Communism or Socialism can get you in big trouble if mentioned around right wingers, and their brainwashed, poor, rural religious constituency!

Tell these "folks" that by having roommates they are by definition "Communalist's" They will look at you like a cow looks at a passing train

[Hazell B]

I win today's quote bingo as I just knew Mr Dunnell would pick on me word for word to have a go at ......


Would you like us all to agree meekly or keep our traps shut?
Clearly not - I wanted to win quote bingo :laugh:




Of course the police, for all their faults, do things outside the boundaries you describe. Even as a generalisation your alleged facts are seriously wide of the mark. And you seem to suggest that the police were bastions of excellence before, when this was clearly not the case. Do you remember the Birmingham Six, the Guildford Four, the serious institutional racism and the serious institutional corruption that used to exist within police forces? A bit of perspective wouldn't go amiss.

I'm not saying the police were ever perfect, whatever you think I 'seem' to be saying. I do know that I used to holiday with a large assortment of police each summer, and grew up with a dozen or so people who entered the force. They have all walked away from it now, every last one. The police I get now turning up when called are all either from Hull (miles away) or Beverley (even further) as Goole's force all left too. No locals police their own area - so they don't know who's who or what's what. And they just don't on the whole care, sadly.
More on them later.




What an insulting thing to say in relation to 'the youths' who are perfectly decent, upstanding citizens and will continue to be so. There are many of them, but unfortunately we rarely hear about them. Down the years, people have always moaned about the 'younger generation' and its perceived faults. This will never change. The fact is that today's 'younger generation' are largely no worse than their predecessors. In many ways, they are better, for fewer young people are surely being brought up in ways that will lead to their being racist, sexist, homophobic, etc than used to be the case.

I think you should take a long hard look at crime figures (now they've almost made them realistic) and see some facts. Murder is pretty high on the average teenager's wish list in some areas - more so than for adults person for person. So what if they're not killing for skin colour - they're still killing :mark:
Drugs are common among under 18s now.
Twenty years ago very few 18 year old lads had a baby and their own house. Now they have both, plus a car sometimes, and from what I've seen few of them work to pay for it. As a result they expect life to be easy, and paid for by others, where as years ago we worked two or three jobs to get what they have now.



No. Why should I? In fact, I have never known my neighbours, and don't feel antisocial as a result. Why this is classed as a sign of the breakdown of society I don't know.


You've clearly never enjoyed having many friends, and I feel sorry for you in that respect. Whilst typing this post, I've had a neighbour knock on the door and thank me for dropping something off for him earlier. Yesterday I went in to York after an auction to meet some other neighbours for a coffee before they went to the theatre. I can have my home cared for while I'm away, as can my neighbours. We are an extended family and frankly that's a rare thing now in some areas. If you don't know why it's a breakdown in society, that's because you've never felt that friendship. Your loss.



Again, you are looking at things without any true historical perspective. If you had any knowledge of the political scandals of the past, you would realise that today's crop of leaders is no better or worse than their predecessors.

Patronising. Of course I know about past political scandals :rolleyes:
I said our leaders appear .... and you're simply picking as you always do. That's why you're lacking those close personal friends, matey ;) Internet freinds aren't real - you do you that don't you?




I don't know the national anthem. Why should I? In fact, as a republican, I am proud to not know it. Does this make me a bad person? (I would consider it a badge of honour to be labelled as such by anyone who comes out with lines such as 'The UK's not great any more', I have to say.)

In short, I would really dislike the sort of blandly conformist (on the grounds that everything else is somehow 'disrespectful'), line-toeing, vaguely right-wing nation you seem to want everyone to live in.

Fine, know it or don't. You're German anyway, yes?
I want people to live in a bland society? Me, the fox hunting, hat wearing, assault charged friend of lesbians? Me, the one who took a mate to the seaside last night, through a blizzard, just for something to do? Me, the one who was recently paid for a job in spliffs?
You crack me up, you really do :laugh:

I'm talking twenty years ago, when I was 20 myself, when I say it's not what it used to be. I walked home each night after working behind the town's busiest bar, over the docks usually, and felt safe. I knew everyone and always had help when needed. Now it's not the same - taxi drivers lock their car doors for goodness sake! I lock my house. There's over a dozen keys on my chain just to get into my stables yard's barn from the gate. It's, according to official figures, a low crimes area here, too!

[BDunnell]

I win today's quote bingo as I just knew Mr Dunnell would pick on me word for word to have a go at ......

I never do so without reason. As usual, you have just given me several more of them. If you don't want me (and others) to respond, don't bother posting.



I think you should take a long hard look at crime figures (now they've almost made them realistic) and see some facts. Murder is pretty high on the average teenager's wish list in some areas - more so than for adults person for person. So what if they're not killing for skin colour - they're still killing :mark:
Drugs are common among under 18s now.
Twenty years ago very few 18 year old lads had a baby and their own house. Now they have both, plus a car sometimes, and from what I've seen few of them work to pay for it. As a result they expect life to be easy, and paid for by others, where as years ago we worked two or three jobs to get what they have now.

You are tarring far too many people with the same brush, and it's simply not right to do so. For example, 'The average teenager'? What does that mean, exactly?

Still, go around in a state of misery and depression about 'the youth of today' if you like. I prefer to be more optimistic, on the grounds that people have always moaned about falling standards in society and will do so for ever more.



You've clearly never enjoyed having many friends, and I feel sorry for you in that respect. Whilst typing this post, I've had a neighbour knock on the door and thank me for dropping something off for him earlier. Yesterday I went in to York after an auction to meet some other neighbours for a coffee before they went to the theatre. I can have my home cared for while I'm away, as can my neighbours. We are an extended family and frankly that's a rare thing now in some areas. If you don't know why it's a breakdown in society, that's because you've never felt that friendship. Your loss.

How does not knowing your neighbours equate to a breakdown of society? It simply doesn't. And as society has developed, so people enjoy friendships that emanate from all sorts of places. We travel more, so we get to know people in other countries. Keeping in touch with people living far away, and indeed seeing them, is much easier nowadays, so we can maintain longer-distance friendships. In short, people don't necessarily need to develop friendships with their neighbours as much as they used to.



Patronising. Of course I know about past political scandals :rolleyes:
I said our leaders appear .... and you're simply picking as you always do.

OK, then, give me some specific, detailed examples of why you believe today's leaders to be of a lower standard in moral terms than their predecessors. I am sure that counter-arguments would be easy to make.



I want people to live in a bland society? Me, the fox hunting, hat wearing, assault charged friend of lesbians?

I do find it rather ironic that you are going on about the poor behaviour of others when you yourself have been charged with assault. I would class that as highly anti-social behaviour, personally, rather than an indication of someone's lack of blandness, but each to their own.

Apologies if any of that patronises you, by the way. You know how I hate to do that.

[BeansBeansBeans]

hat wearing

Kerrazy.

[Fred Basset]

Just got back from a business trip to Denver.. Looks like i can still remember how to light the fuse and stand well back :laugh:

Theres more posts in those last 3 days than there had been all week... :dog:

[Fred Basset]

he's made a spectacularly ignorant point.


How so?? Just cos you don't agree with it? I could say the same about you but then i'm above that nowadays...

[Fred Basset]

You've clearly never enjoyed having many friends, and I feel sorry for you in that respect. Whilst typing this post, I've had a neighbour knock on the door and thank me for dropping something off for him earlier. Yesterday I went in to York after an auction to meet some other neighbours for a coffee before they went to the theatre. I can have my home cared for while I'm away, as can my neighbours. We are an extended family and frankly that's a rare thing now in some areas. If you don't know why it's a breakdown in society, that's because you've never felt that friendship. Your loss.


100% error free post right here. If BDunnell is like he is on this forum in real life, there is no hope for him..

I could write a load of reasons about why where i live is better than where i was but i consider there to be no point as BDunnell will just get himself worked up more poor fella and the anti America bias that there always has been on this forum will rear its ugly head again.. :dog:

[Daniel]

I could write a load of reasons about why where i live is better than where i was but i consider there to be no point as BDunnell will just get himself worked up more poor fella and the anti America bias that there always has been on this forum will rear its ugly head again.. :dog:

Anti Bush bias..... most people on this forum have absolutely no problem with most people from the US at all, the problem is what Bush did with the US.

It's the same ignorant interpretation of things that makes some people of Islamic people think that people are Anti-Islam when they simply don't like the people who commit such terrorist attacks as those in New York, London, Madrid, Mumbai and so on. Get with the program and stop playing the victim.

[BDunnell]

100% error free post right here. If BDunnell is like he is on this forum in real life, there is no hope for him..

I could write a load of reasons about why where i live is better than where i was but i consider there to be no point as BDunnell will just get himself worked up more poor fella and the anti America bias that there always has been on this forum will rear its ugly head again.. :dog:

Oh well. Never mind.

[Daniel]

Oh well. Never mind.
Uptight German! Don't you remember 1945 and 1966? Eh? Eh? Told! Fact!

[SOD]

I could write a load of reasons about why where i live is better than where i was

just be glad that you made the move then eh!

[markabilly]

Tell these "folks" that by having roommates they are by definition "Communalist's" They will look at you like a cow looks at a passing train


better that than a rabid dog looking at water....told my spouse that I guess I qualified as communALIST and the response was a demand for testing of MY humble BODY for STDs

[Drew]

Uptight German! Don't you remember 1945 and 1966? Eh? Eh? Told! Fact!

:laugh: :laugh:

[ShiftingGears]

To be frank, Sydney is pretty damn awesome.

[Hazell B]

If you don't want me (and others) to respond, don't bother posting.



You make an effort to patronise and badly misquote me, so I won't bother posting.

[BDunnell]

You make an effort to patronise and badly misquote me, so I won't bother posting.

'Badly misquote'? What utter nonsense. Also, my patronisation of you takes no effort whatsoever. I could really try if you want.

[BDunnell]

To be frank, Sydney is pretty damn awesome.

Nice to see some more positivity about someone's domicile!

[BeansBeansBeans]

I can't see how Britain is any worse now that it has been at any point during my lifetime.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

'Badly misquote'? What utter nonsense. Also, my patronisation of you takes no effort whatsoever. I could really try if you want.

:laugh:

How patronising :laugh:

[Daniel]

I wanted to read the Daily Hate's article again and it seems they've taken it down :bigcry:

I love your patronising comments BDunnell :D