Donington planning delayed!

[Oli_M]

Oh I am so surprised I did not expect this to happen at all

/sarcasm

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=44640

Bye Bye British GP. Thanks Donington.

[Knock-on]

Since the move to Donington was announced, the circuit management have been in conflict and turmoil. This was expected and predicted.

[AndyRAC]

Surprise , surprise!!!

Really, can't people/circuits, etc think of the 'bigger picture' - instead of point scoring against each other. I'm not really bothered who has the British GP, just as long as there is one. This does nobody any good.

[BDunnell]

And we shouldn't blame the council either. It has to go through its proper processes.

[wedge]

Since the move to Donington was announced, the circuit management have been in conflict and turmoil.

:confused:

I specifically remember the management saying they had strong links with the local authorities and confident it will pass through the council quickly.

But then they would say that wouldn't they.

To those giggling with glee: would you rather have no British GP at all than one at Donnington?

[Knock-on]

:confused:

I specifically remember the management saying they had strong links with the local authorities and confident it will pass through the council quickly.

But then they would say that wouldn't they.

To those giggling with glee: would you rather have no British GP at all than one at Donnington?

Wedge

I was going to compile a brief Essay but in researching it came across this piece.

http://www.britsonpole.com/opinion-could-this-be-the-saving-of-donington-post2250

Whoever ljh is, he's pretty spot on with his summery of the situation.

Personally, I would love to see Donington host the GP but without professional help, I fear this is too much a step up for the management team.

[BDunnell]

:confused:

I specifically remember the management saying they had strong links with the local authorities and confident it will pass through the council quickly.

But then they would say that wouldn't they.

Very good point. Yet more bland corporate bo11ocks coming back to bite somebody on the ar5e.

[wedge]

I for one don't blame Donington one bit. They're just picking up the pieces from a pile of mess created by Bernie.

[BDunnell]

I for one don't blame Donington one bit. They're just picking up the pieces from a pile of mess created by Bernie.

While that may be true (undoubtedly is?), Donington's bosses/owners shouldn't have made such ambitious claims about their ability to stage the race in 2010.

[christophulus]

OK, hang on. Even if this is delayed until January, that gives them 14 months to sort the track out. There isn't too much to do to get to a basic level to host the GP - the track is mostly in place, as are the run off areas, viewing areas etc.

The park and ride scheme they've thought up will mean the roads don't need any urgent upgrades, so I'm still fairly confident that they'll have it done on time. And in the worst case scenario, we miss the GP for one year and get it back in 2011.. so let's just see what happens! Besides, by this time next year Bernie might be so desperate for cash that he'll let Silverstone have the race for another year :)

[Dave B]

I don't want to say "I told you so", but....

[goodf1fun]

I remember last year when Silverstone was dropped, someone said that moving to Donington was only to make UK lose the grand prix....

I for one don't blame Donington one bit. They're just picking up the pieces from a pile of mess created by Bernie.


While that may be true (undoubtedly is?), Donington's bosses/owners shouldn't have made such ambitious claims about their ability to stage the race in 2010.

In all this, don't forget who the real villain is.

Step forward Sir Jackie Stewart, under whose stewardship the future fate of the British GP was sealed.

Not that I'm that bothered....Monza is much better value for money.

[N. Jones]

Oh I am so surprised I did not expect this to happen at all

/sarcasm

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=44640

Bye Bye British GP. Thanks Donington.

Didn't everyone - fans and journos predict this when it was announced? :laugh: I hope no is surprised by this....

[BDunnell]

In all this, don't forget who the real villain is.

Step forward Sir Jackie Stewart, under whose stewardship the future fate of the British GP was sealed.

Don't forget that there are two sides to every argument. He and Bernie rubbed each other up the wrong way, there's no doubt about that, but I don't think one is at fault any more than the other. And this is far too complex an issue for the blame to be laid on the shoulders of one person, no matter how neatly doing so fits into your pre-ordained views on other matters.

[wedge]

Step forward Sir Jackie Stewart, under whose stewardship the future fate of the British GP was sealed.

Not entirely.

JYS has talked many a time about modernising Silverstone, turning it into the centre of British motorsport etc, but was held back by the old guard within the BRDC who were against change.


Don't forget that there are two sides to every argument. He and Bernie rubbed each other up the wrong way, there's no doubt about that, but I don't think one is at fault any more than the other. And this is far too complex an issue for the blame to be laid on the shoulders of one person, no matter how neatly doing so fits into your pre-ordained views on other matters.

Agreed. There is no doubt more to it than what is already exposed currently. It seems its a personal issue only privy between the BRDC and Bernie without public scrutiny.

Anyway, we shouldn't be typical cynical Brits and pointing fingers. I for one hate to imagine Bernie enjoying these shenanigans. The British GP is in the last chance saloon and we should be getting behind it and keep our fingers crossed.

[BDunnell]

The British GP is in the last chance saloon and we should be getting behind it and keep our fingers crossed.

I hate to say it, but 'getting behind it' isn't going to do any good. After all, everybody — including Bernie, he says — was behind the Canadian GP but this backing hasn't exactly helped it survive.

[ioan]

How much would the changes at Donington cost?
Did they secure the money they need? If yes than it's OK.
If not than bad luck, cause now wil be much more difficult to get a loan in fair conditions.
In the end everything is about money, not about people.

Don't forget that there are two sides to every argument. He and Bernie rubbed each other up the wrong way, there's no doubt about that, but I don't think one is at fault any more than the other. And this is far too complex an issue for the blame to be laid on the shoulders of one person, no matter how neatly doing so fits into your pre-ordained views on other matters.

Funny though how I was, and remain, the only person to point out that was another option for 'villain of the piece'.

It obviously did not fit into others pre-ordained views of the situation, so perhaps you should condescend them equally?

Failing to do so, failing to be equal, somewhat undermines those liberal and fair credentials you like to promote. Shocking, but then it probably doesn't fit into your pre-ordained view to have done so either.

[BDunnell]

Funny though how I was, and remain, the only person to point out that was another option for 'villain of the piece'.

It obviously did not fit into others pre-ordained views of the situation, so perhaps you should condescend them equally?

Failing to do so, failing to be equal, somewhat undermines those liberal and fair credentials you like to promote. Shocking, but then it probably doesn't fit into your pre-ordained view to have done so either.

Re-read the bit of my post where I say 'this is far too complex an issue for the blame to be laid on the shoulders of one person'. This is my 'pre-ordained' view on the subject, and I believe it to be the right one, unlike merely saying 'blame Bernie' or 'blame JYS'.

And were you really 'shocked' by my opinion, or is that just another bit of overblown rhetoric?

And were you really 'shocked' by my opinion, or is that just another bit of overblown rhetoric?

As an avid and fanatical reader of the Daily Mail*, I'm 'shocked' by just about everything.

Whilst I am aware that you personally attribute blame, or at least fault, to a wide spectrum of individuals, there are others within this thread who are targeting either the Donnington management or Mr Ecclestone, and no mention of Mr Stewart.

Your attack on me for having a pre-ordained view would have more merit if you had done the same to them.

Alas, you missed the opportunity, so I remained shocked.







*Legal Note - I've never read that 'Mein Kampf' tabloid.

[BDunnell]

As an avid and fanatical reader of the Daily Mail*, I'm 'shocked' by just about everything.

:laugh:



Whilst I am aware that you personally attribute blame, or at least fault, to a wide spectrum of individuals, there are others within this thread who are targeting either the Donnington management or Mr Ecclestone, and no mention of Mr Stewart.

Fair enough.

[wedge]

As an avid and fanatical reader of the Daily Mail*, I'm 'shocked' by just about everything.

Whilst I am aware that you personally attribute blame, or at least fault, to a wide spectrum of individuals, there are others within this thread who are targeting either the Donnington management or Mr Ecclestone, and no mention of Mr Stewart.

IMHO you are a tad unfair to attack JYS and point finger of blame solely at him. Whoever chairs the BRDC and negotiates with Bernie represents the interests of the BRDC. I think it would be fair to criticise the BRDC as an institution which looks after its own vested interests.

IMHO you are a tad unfair to attack JYS and point finger of blame solely at him. Whoever chairs the BRDC and negotiates with Bernie represents the interests of the BRDC. I think it would be fair to criticise the BRDC as an institution which looks after its own vested interests.

Yet Stewart, as chairman, did nothing to bring the BRDC together. Instead, he & Ray Bellm argued, bickered and generally did nothing to improve the situation.

A chairman should do a better job than that.

You'd think that having failed to govern the BRDC, a small motorsport organisation, he would have been a bit less critical of Mosley's running of the FIA, a massive motorsport organisation.

People in glass houses.

[PolePosition_1]

Oh I am so surprised I did not expect this to happen at all

/sarcasm

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=44640

Bye Bye British GP. Thanks Donington.

Its not Donnington's fault. Bernie has been saying for nearly 7 odd years to Silverstone it needs upgrading, and nothing ever seemed to materialise unless they could get their hands on taxpayers money.

Donnington gave a plan which could be 100% privately funded, so it was bound to move.

[PolePosition_1]

I for one don't blame Donington one bit. They're just picking up the pieces from a pile of mess created by Bernie.

Why is Bernie to blame? He gave them 7 odd years of warnings, and they couldn't meet his demands.

[I am evil Homer]

Its not Donnington's fault. Bernie has been saying for nearly 7 odd years to Silverstone it needs upgrading, and nothing ever seemed to materialise unless they could get their hands on taxpayers money.

Donnington gave a plan which could be 100% privately funded, so it was bound to move.

Well given that Silverstone - along with mos tother GP organisers - were getting shafted by Bernie's up front fees it's no surprise they wanted to sue government money in some form. The irony being they had plans approved for the new pits etc and then Bernie decided to shift it to Donny.

[goodf1fun]

drop the uk grand prix and thats ok with me. there are so many other exciting circiuts out there waiting for an oportunity.

[PolePosition_1]

Well given that Silverstone - along with mos tother GP organisers - were getting shafted by Bernie's up front fees it's no surprise they wanted to sue government money in some form. The irony being they had plans approved for the new pits etc and then Bernie decided to shift it to Donny.


I'm under the understanding that Bernie didn't hike up the fees for hosting the GP for Silverstone. Have you got a source saying otherwise?

My understanding is that Bernie has been on at Silverstone to upgrade its facilities, on numerous occassions, it said it was going to be done, but nothing ever happened.

And if Donnington can do 100% privately funded, but Silverstone can't - why should the public pay for it, when the private can afford to do it for free (to the tax payers) ?

Whilst I'm sad to see Silverstone go, I'm a realist, F1 is a business as much as a sport, and in a capitalist society, the business is vital for F1 (the sport) to survive.

Bernie was more than lenient with Silverstone, I think had it been Turkey or anywhere similar in that situation, the GP would have gone much sooner.

And fact is, at end of the day, the British GP has been saved, just moving to different location.

[wedge]

Why is Bernie to blame? He gave them 7 odd years of warnings, and they couldn't meet his demands.

Well, Bernie's business model is now showing cracks. Silverstone is your average GP venue and healthily attended, China's GP is heavily funded and struggles with attendance have already realised its an unsustainable business model.

Well, Bernie's business model is now showing cracks. Silverstone is your average GP venue and healthily attended, China's GP is heavily funded and struggles with attendance have already realised its an unsustainable business model.

In the current economic downturn, Silverstone's admission rates are pretty unsustainable too.

Silverstone has been a rip-off for years for joe public.

"Race Day tickets start from only £109 - BOOK NOW" http://www.silverstone.co.uk/php/rm_britishGP.html

Compared to 60 Euros for Monza.

No wonder Jackie Stewart can afford a nice watch.

[BDunnell]

In the current economic downturn, Silverstone's admission rates are pretty unsustainable too.

Silverstone has been a rip-off for years for joe public.

"Race Day tickets start from only £109 - BOOK NOW" http://www.silverstone.co.uk/php/rm_britishGP.html

In truth, almost all forms of outdoor and sporting event are rip-offs in Britain compared with equivalent offerings in mainland Europe.

[Mark]

In truth, almost all forms of outdoor and sporting event are rip-offs in Britain compared with equivalent offerings in mainland Europe.

Could it be that the Grand prix in Silverstone receives no goverment help unlike some other countries?

[BDunnell]

Could it be that the Grand prix in Silverstone receives no goverment help unlike some other countries?

That too. I'm glad it doesn't get government funding, personally. But I still think the comparison holds. I see it at events I go to overseas.

[AndyRAC]

In truth, almost all forms of outdoor and sporting event are rip-offs in Britain compared with equivalent offerings in mainland Europe.

Yes, I'm afraid so - Rally GB is £90 for a 4 day Rally pass!! Probably the most expensive,....don't know how they justify it. As for the GP, while expensive, it is a major A League sport, and prices are set accordingly. Doesn't make it right mind you. Simple thing to do is stay away - which isn't as easy as it sounds once you've got the bug.

[Knock-on]

Well, the FA cup prices are £35 to £90 and is a prestigious sporting event.

However, you only get 90 minutes of sport (if you can call it that) whereas you get a full days racing with the GP.

I'd say that £75 per person for a basic ticket is about right for the Sunday and £100 for a 3 day pass.

Problem is that Max charges so much for the event that the circuits have no option but to bump the prices up.

[MrJan]

In truth, almost all forms of outdoor and sporting event are rip-offs in Britain compared with equivalent offerings in mainland Europe.

In the case of football it's down to demand. People will pay good money to watch premiership but in places like Italy the stadiums are empty for Serie A games.

[ioan]

Well, the FA cup prices are £35 to £90 and is a prestigious sporting event.

However, you only get 90 minutes of sport (if you can call it that) whereas you get a full days racing with the GP.

I'd say that £75 per person for a basic ticket is about right for the Sunday and £100 for a 3 day pass.

Problem is that Max charges so much for the event that the circuits have no option but to bump the prices up.

Max has nothing to do with the economical side of F1, it's Bernie!

[Knock-on]

Max has nothing to do with the economical side of F1, it's Bernie!

Sorry, Freudian slip. I get mixed up these days with which one is the Punch puppet and which one inserts his hand.

Sorry, Freudian slip. I get mixed up these days with which one is the Punch puppet and which one inserts his hand.

At least when it comes to Ron & Lewis there isn't any doubt.

[ioan]

Sorry, Freudian slip. I get mixed up these days with which one is the Punch puppet and which one inserts his hand.

Must be the age! :p :

[Rover V8]

Apparently, the road access issues aren't going to be a problem....because everyone's coming by bus...

http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/news/Donington-Grand-Prix-cars-allowed/article-504719-detail/article.html


If they can pull this off it'll be a miracle....

[ArrowsFA1]

Fans could travel by bus from Nottingham, Leicester or Derby, take the train to East Midlands Parkway Station or fly to East Midlands Airport
Don't see it somehow :dozey:

[Rover V8]

Me neither- I can just imagine the way this is going to play out- for about a fortnight after the GP every F1 forum and the letters page of Autosport will be full of comments from people who parked their cars in Nottingham or Derby at the crack of dawn, and eventually got into Donington somewhere around Lap 45 of the race because the buses were late.....

...and what odds will you give me that shortly before the race Network Rail announce major Sunday engineering works somewhere crucial on the rail route to East Mids Parkway....?

[Mark]

Oh this gets better and better...

I have an idea, why not host the Grand Prix at a venue which has a dual carriageway right to the front gates, oh I don't know, somewhere like, Silverstone?!

I've never been to a Formula 1 race before, and I'm certainly not going to be going now! Unless I get to Silverstone next year!

[Rover V8]

Bernie hasn't just bought a bus company has he....? LOL

[PolePosition_1]

Well, Bernie's business model is now showing cracks. Silverstone is your average GP venue and healthily attended, China's GP is heavily funded and struggles with attendance have already realised its an unsustainable business model.


With due respect, all big businesses, when setting up new branches or setting up in new regions, don't expect to make money for first few years.

I work for a company, and we're expanding into a new european market every year as part of our growth, and the business plan doesn't show any profit margins targetted until the 4th year.

Sure, China been there 5 years, but its much bigger than any European economy, so obviously will take a while.

I'm sure when F1 first started in most economies, it took a while to develop into a money making success.

We can't expect 1 F1 race a year, for 5 years to make it into a huge sporting event.

[PolePosition_1]

Could it be that the Grand prix in Silverstone receives no goverment help unlike some other countries?

Does Monza and other European tracks get government funding? I wasn't under the understanding that Monza, Spain, France etc all get public funding.

[wedge]

With due respect, all big businesses, when setting up new branches or setting up in new regions, don't expect to make money for first few years.

I work for a company, and we're expanding into a new european market every year as part of our growth, and the business plan doesn't show any profit margins targetted until the 4th year.

Sure, China been there 5 years, but its much bigger than any European economy, so obviously will take a while.

I'm sure when F1 first started in most economies, it took a while to develop into a money making success.

We can't expect 1 F1 race a year, for 5 years to make it into a huge sporting event.

If European circuit owners/promoters struggle with making a huge profit with Grand Prixs then surely so would China. Perhaps a new business model is needed for CVC because at this rate we'll be seeing Bernie dealing with African dictators to hold an F1 race!

Does Monza and other European tracks get government funding? I wasn't under the understanding that Monza, Spain, France etc all get public funding.

There has been government funding of the Monza pit-lane rebuild back in 2001, while the Monza Royal Park is owned by the Lombardy council.

Magny Cours was hand-picked by the French Government to be the site of the French GP on the basis that Nevers is in the middle of nowhere and they wanted to do something to promote the region.

Spain's circuits are supported heavily by the local councils.

Apparently, the road access issues aren't going to be a problem....because everyone's coming by bus...

http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/news/Donington-Grand-Prix-cars-allowed/article-504719-detail/article.html


If they can pull this off it'll be a miracle....

Nobody drives to Monza. Well, very very few. Of course, we couldn't have British race fans using park & ride schemes now, could we.


Don't see it somehow :dozey:

See the above.

Free buses to & from Monza railway station & and free trains from Milan Centrale right up to the Lesmos station, situated about 100 yards from the track.

[Mark]

Free buses to & from Monza railway station & and free trains from Milan Centrale right up to the Lesmos station, situated about 100 yards from the track.

No no, that's not the way we do things here. We don't do 'free'.

[PolePosition_1]

There has been government funding of the Monza pit-lane rebuild back in 2001, while the Monza Royal Park is owned by the Lombardy council.

Magny Cours was hand-picked by the French Government to be the site of the French GP on the basis that Nevers is in the middle of nowhere and they wanted to do something to promote the region.

Spain's circuits are supported heavily by the local councils.

Have you got source for this? I'd be interested in reading more about this.

[BDunnell]

There has been government funding of the Monza pit-lane rebuild back in 2001, while the Monza Royal Park is owned by the Lombardy council.

Magny Cours was hand-picked by the French Government to be the site of the French GP on the basis that Nevers is in the middle of nowhere and they wanted to do something to promote the region.

Spain's circuits are supported heavily by the local councils.

Am I not right in thinking, though, that these forms of government support pale into insignificance compared with the assistance rendered by governments in some of the 'new' host nations?

I also seem to recall Silverstone getting (controversially) government funding for the new link road a few years ago.

[BDunnell]

No no, that's not the way we do things here. We don't do 'free'.

Quite a lot of aviation events I go to in the UK have good free bus services, but can the same be said for any motorsport events here?

[ioan]

Have you got source for this? I'd be interested in reading more about this.

I can confirm the Magny Cours part of his post. I did study in Nevers at the Institut Superieur de l'Automobile et Transports (which also begin it's existence due to the same plan), and talked to many people who work in the automotive and motorsport industry in that region.

[nigelred5]

Quite a lot of aviation events I go to in the UK have good free bus services, but can the same be said for any motorsport events here?

Fortunately, the aviation events don't have a money grubbing Hobbit moving the decimal point to the right three places on the ransome to simply hold the events. Bernie doesn't care a lick what it costs the track owners and promoters to actually make the event happen. The best thing that could happen to F1 would be the economy getting so bad that 90% of the teams loose their sponsorship and can't even afford to participate and it all goes tits up and has to be re-formed without him. F1 has gotten waay to big for it's britches.


What Bernie doesn't seem to care about is that just because there are entire countries that apparently have the capital to meet his demands, it doesn't mean that there are enough so called racing fans to afford and digest the ticket prices that can actually financially siupport his races in these markets. I can't wait to see this business model come crashing down about him, which it will in due time.

[BDunnell]

Fortunately, the aviation events don't have a money grubbing Hobbit moving the decimal point to the right three places on the ransome to simply hold the events. Bernie doesn't care a lick what it costs the track owners and promoters to actually make the event happen. The best thing that could happen to F1 would be the economy getting so bad that 90% of the teams loose their sponsorship and can't even afford to participate and it all goes tits up and has to be re-formed without him. F1 has gotten waay to big for it's britches.

But if Monza can do it...?

Have you got source for this? I'd be interested in reading more about this.

For Monza - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/1698064.stm

For Magny Cours - http://www.f1ticket.info/circuits.php?ID=11

[wedge]

Fuji uses a bus service. IIRC Fuji has one main access road and was gridlocked well into the evening - Valve Bounce will probably correct me with his personal experience.

With present infrastructure, I can see Donny struggling.

[acorn]

Free buses to & from Monza railway station & and free trains from Milan Centrale right up to the Lesmos station, situated about 100 yards from the track.

but are they really "free".

we have a saying- "you don't get something for nothing" so have the ticket prices been jacked up to pay for this "free" service coz i can't see the organisers giving this service away for nothing.

[Rover V8]

Nobody drives to Monza. Well, very very few. Of course, we couldn't have British race fans using park & ride schemes now, could we.
See the above.

Free buses to & from Monza railway station & and free trains from Milan Centrale right up to the Lesmos station, situated about 100 yards from the track.

I have no problem with the idea in theory- I just doubt the ability of the organisers and the British public transport industry to deliver it with any degree of competence....

[BDunnell]

I have no problem with the idea in theory- I just doubt the ability of the organisers and the British public transport industry to deliver it with any degree of competence....

As I said, they manage it for other events, so why not the GP?

[ArrowsFA1]

With present infrastructure, I can see Donny struggling.
Isn't the public transport plan a recognition that the road network will not cope with the kind of traffic that normally attends a GP?

Whether the British public, used to car access to Silverstone, will abandon their cars to get to Donington is the question. Other circuits running the kind of services that Donington are planning may not be an indicator of the plan working.

But, in these times, I guess it's an admirable idea.

[Allyc85]

Im guessing people camping will still be able to drive to the circuit?

[wedge]

As I said, they manage it for other events, so why not the GP?

Because its Britain! Unless you live in certain cities then public transport isn't exactly high on confidence is it?

[Robinho]

cities, like Nottingham maybe, which has agreat public transport system - oh, and happens to be close to the circuit.

this isn't a last ditch measure when the car parks are under water, this is being planned 18 months out, and makes a great deal of sense. sure there is an infinate number of things that could F up, but if there is no car entrance on race day then there will be no cars in a queue and as long as they designate enough parking wherever they run the buses from and enough buses then it will probably be better than trying to get out of any race circuit in the country when there are 100,000+ people trying to get out at once.

i'm sure everyone will moan (oh, the indignity of having to get on a bus), but its a practical solution to a real problem, being thought out well in advance - very un-British ;)

but are they really "free".

we have a saying- "you don't get something for nothing" so have the ticket prices been jacked up to pay for this "free" service coz i can't see the organisers giving this service away for nothing.

Monza General Admission - 60Euros
Silverstone General Admission - 109 Pounds.

Since a ticket for Monza costs less than half that of one for Silverstone, they could provide gold-plated horse-drawn carriages for each individual ticket holder and still it would cost less than getting in at Silverstone.

And that's before the you've calculated the cost of the fuel you'd use getting to the entrance gates.

[Knock-on]

cities, like Nottingham maybe, which has agreat public transport system - oh, and happens to be close to the circuit.

What do you know about Nottingham anyway :p


this isn't a last ditch measure when the car parks are under water, this is being planned 18 months out, and makes a great deal of sense. sure there is an infinate number of things that could F up, but if there is no car entrance on race day then there will be no cars in a queue and as long as they designate enough parking wherever they run the buses from and enough buses then it will probably be better than trying to get out of any race circuit in the country when there are 100,000+ people trying to get out at once.

i'm sure everyone will moan (oh, the indignity of having to get on a bus), but its a practical solution to a real problem, being thought out well in advance - very un-British ;)

There really isn't a problem with Transport too and from Donny. The airport's within spitting distance of the circuit and the M1 runs close by. There are some large retail and industrial complexes near that could easily operate park and ride for drivers and train links are good.

OK, there isn't a 10 lane Motorway terminating at the front gate but I am sure that the road that is there will be improved. (Can they please flatten the bump at the bottom of the hill before the left hander on the way to Melbourne please)

However, apart from that, with a little planning, it would be ideal.

[Mark]

OK, there isn't a 10 lane Motorway terminating at the front gate but I am sure that the road that is there will be improved. (Can they please flatten the bump at the bottom of the hill before the left hander on the way to Melbourne please)

However, apart from that, with a little planning, it would be ideal.

I certainly agree that the access to Donny could be good if a few modifications were made to the approach roads. And indeed maybe they will.

However modifications to roads such as that take at least 5 years from proposal to opening, even for the smallest schemes. 10-15 years is more realistic. So they have to work with what they have got in the meantime.

[seppefan]

Ecclestone refuses to rule out reinstating the race at some point in the future.
He said that while returning to Montreal will be "difficult", he "never says never" to anything.
...


Bet the same does not cover Siverstone.

[LiamM]

What do you know about Nottingham anyway :p

There really isn't a problem with Transport too and from Donny. The airport's within spitting distance of the circuit and the M1 runs close by. There are some large retail and industrial complexes near that could easily operate park and ride for drivers and train links are good.


Its a very clever idea, everyone seems to be forgetting that Silverstone also run a park and ride system - the only problem which that is that the buses get caught up in the car traffic parking at the circuit. Doningtons plan will eliminated this - the number of buses shouldnt be a problem, last years race Stagecoach provided an abundance of buses as they only did a one way run!

Nottingham, Derby and Leicester are all covered by different bus companies, therefore they should be able to treble the number of buses required on a Sunday compared to what Silverstone use, combine this with trains and planes it'll be a fool proof plan to get 100,000+ people out of the circuit in ten minutes.

And remember say your driving up from the south and parking at Leicester, the majority of other people will also be doing this, reducing the traffic problems at car parks as people try to fight to get where they want to go.

Another point - London 2012 is going to be public transport ONLY - officially you're not even allowed to drive anywhere near!

[Knock-on]

I've a simple answer.

Reserve and pay for your tickets online and specify which park and ride you wish to collect them from. Then have a ticket machine like at train stations to key in your receipt number into and bobs your auntie.

Nobody will drive to the circuit if they cannot get a ticket from there.

Actually, thinking about it for a moment, you would need a hell of a lot of busses.

3 different park and rides holding 25k cars each is rather a lot.

Then you have 35 people per bus = 2857 journeys betweek 07:00 and 10:00 or about 1000 per site.

Say the busses can make a round trip every 40 minutes, you will need about 100 busses per site.

Thats a hell of a lot of capacity?

[Mark]

The answer is simple. Ban spectators. Problem solved.

[LiamM]

3 different park and rides holding 25k cars each is rather a lot.

Then you have 35 people per bus = 2857 journeys betweek 07:00 and 10:00 or about 1000 per site.

Say the busses can make a round trip every 40 minutes, you will need about 100 busses per site.

Thats a hell of a lot of capacity?

Double deckers will hold 70ish so I've just cut your 100 buses in half.

The way it'll be done is you specify where you'll park, therefore the organisers will then know where everyone will be parking and can suitably assign the correct numbers of buses to each site

[GridGirl]

Does the no car rule disclude the people that choose to camp at the GP? You can't exactly carry a weekends worth of camping gear on public transport. :p Thinking about it what if you choose to stay in a nearby hotel, are you going to have to drive from you hotel a few miles away to an out of town car park somewhere to get a bus back in again? All sounds quite complicated.

[Knock-on]

Double deckers will hold 70ish so I've just cut your 100 buses in half.

The way it'll be done is you specify where you'll park, therefore the organisers will then know where everyone will be parking and can suitably assign the correct numbers of buses to each site


Good idea.

Get Tom Chilton* to drive and you'll only need 1 bus for everyone until Reidy taps him over :D

*(Have to had seen Top Gear last night)

[Knock-on]

Does the no car rule disclude the people that choose to camp at the GP? You can't exactly carry a weekends worth of camping gear on public transport. :p Thinking about it what if you choose to stay in a nearby hotel, are you going to have to drive from you hotel a few miles away to an out of town car park somewhere to get a bus back in again? All sounds quite complicated.

I was thinking just for race day.

Limited Park and Ride can be used for Friday and Saturday but campers would have car parking.

People from Hotels can either get a Taxi to the circuit or get to a park and ride.

[PolePosition_1]

For Monza - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/1698064.stm

For Magny Cours - http://www.f1ticket.info/circuits.php?ID=11

Both links say state funding is needed. Have you got a source stating that state funding was actually recieved?

[AndyRAC]

I was thinking just for race day.

Limited Park and Ride can be used for Friday and Saturday but campers would have car parking.

People from Hotels can either get a Taxi to the circuit or get to a park and ride.

Maybe they'll ban the campsite - and 'encourage'/demand people stay in Hotels. I mean, campsites aren't very 'upmarket' - and F1 is an aspirational sport - well that's what we're told.

[Mark]

I wouldn't be too surprised. After all I doubt there is much money in providing camping facilities. Although some nearby farmer is likely to do just that!

[LiamM]

Does the no car rule disclude the people that choose to camp at the GP? You can't exactly carry a weekends worth of camping gear on public transport. :p Thinking about it what if you choose to stay in a nearby hotel, are you going to have to drive from you hotel a few miles away to an out of town car park somewhere to get a bus back in again? All sounds quite complicated.

You've obviously never seen the 100s of people trying to get on the shuttle buses at Derby/Loughborough train stations with their camping gear every time Download festival comes around

Both links say state funding is needed. Have you got a source stating that state funding was actually recieved?

The BBC link about Monza does state that some government funding was received -

"Monza autodrome has already received substantial support to enable the pits, paddock and media areas to be rebuilt."

While another Magny Cours article states -

"Magny Cours has been host to the French Grand Prix since 1989 following enormous amounts of money from the French government in an attempt to foster economic regeneration to the area"

http://www.rmatrackdays.com/?id=magnycours

Although this link http://www.magnyf1.com/pics/uploads/File/MC2%20bis%20Anglais%20.pdf is better as it is official.

The important bit is

"CONCLUSION
For almost twenty years, the Circuit de Nevers Magny-Cours, the result of a joint initiative by
the French government and the Département de la Nièvre, has provided France with the
capacity to host and organise leading international motorsport competitions, including the
French Formula 1 Grand Prix.
The continuing investments made, from the outset, by the Département de la Nièvre have
enabled it to become not only the largest French sporting venue, with a capacity of 139,000
spectators, but also one of the safest circuits in the world"

[Knock-on]

It's true that Magny has received substantial money to attempt to regenerate the area but from memory, this has been largly a failure because nobody wants to be there for a variety of reasons.

[PolePosition_1]

The BBC link about Monza does state that some government funding was received -

"Monza autodrome has already received substantial support to enable the pits, paddock and media areas to be rebuilt."

While another Magny Cours article states -

"Magny Cours has been host to the French Grand Prix since 1989 following enormous amounts of money from the French government in an attempt to foster economic regeneration to the area"

http://www.rmatrackdays.com/?id=magnycours

Although this link http://www.magnyf1.com/pics/uploads/File/MC2%20bis%20Anglais%20.pdf is better as it is official.

The important bit is

"CONCLUSION
For almost twenty years, the Circuit de Nevers Magny-Cours, the result of a joint initiative by
the French government and the Département de la Nièvre, has provided France with the
capacity to host and organise leading international motorsport competitions, including the
French Formula 1 Grand Prix.
The continuing investments made, from the outset, by the Département de la Nièvre have
enabled it to become not only the largest French sporting venue, with a capacity of 139,000
spectators, but also one of the safest circuits in the world"

So we can agree that state funding was not used to pay Bernie race fees :)

Funding was recieved for the French GP 20 years ago, and Monza 7 years ago :roll eyes:

So we can agree that state funding was not used to pay Bernie race fees :)

Funding was recieved for the French GP 20 years ago, and Monza 7 years ago :roll eyes:

Did I ever say it was?

I have no problem with the idea in theory- I just doubt the ability of the organisers and the British public transport industry to deliver it with any degree of competence....

Ah yes....very good point.

[ArrowsFA1]

Donington Park boss Simon Gillett's optimism about his track securing planning permission ahead of Thursday's council meeting appears well placed, with a local report hailing the economic benefits it will bring to the region.

In a report that will go before the district council's environmental committee ahead of Thursday's planning permission meeting, director of community services Mark Aflat says he is convinced about the positives from Donington Park getting the race.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72616

[yodasarmpit]

When places like Knockhill were able to provide free park and ride facilities for 25,000 on a ticket costing less than £20, then there is no reason Donington can't do the same for 100,000 people.

[ShiftingGears]

When places like Knockhill were able to provide free park and ride facilities for 25,000 on a ticket costing less than £20, then there is no reason Donington can't do the same for 100,000 people.

Bernies hosting fee, for one.

[Dave B]

When places like Knockhill were able to provide free park and ride facilities for 25,000 on a ticket costing less than £20, then there is no reason Donington can't do the same for 100,000 people.
Where, exactly? They seem to have assumed that the M1 services and EMA will bend over backwards and let them use their car parks (which they almost certainly won't), and seem remarkably naïve to think that they can at a stroke solve the problems which have plauged Silverstone for decades.

[ioan]

When places like Knockhill were able to provide free park and ride facilities for 25,000 on a ticket costing less than £20, then there is no reason Donington can't do the same for 100,000 people.

I bet Knockhill don't have to pay Bernie! ;)

[Mark]

Where, exactly? They seem to have assumed that the M1 services and EMA will bend over backwards and let them use their car parks (which they almost certainly won't), and seem remarkably naïve to think that they can at a stroke solve the problems which have plauged Silverstone for decades.

The car park at Donington services is quite small. It's quite often 3/4 full just in normal operations, without any races happening nearby. So using that as an overspill car park is a non-starter.

[PolePosition_1]

Positive news regarding Donnington

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=44861

[christophulus]

Planning has been granted and work is starting "immediately"

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=44884

[THE_LIBERATOR]

Okay, more space in the grandstands before the Moto GP please!!

[Mark]

Planning has been granted and work is starting "immediately"

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=44884

Good stuff. I would imagine that they've already started the parts of the works that don't need planning permission, so I wouldn't be surprised if they are ready to start the major works immediately.