Williams - the future

[seppefan]

As a Williams fan it is sad to see this once great team slipping down to the back of the grid and maybe the slowest team in 09. Thats if they are on the grid. I know that sounds alarmist but they are sponsored by RBS & Hamleys amongst others.

My question is what should Frank do?

My answer is get new staff. Remember Mansells car was designed by the same guy that designed Vetels.

What is the solution .

[Valve Bounce]

As a Williams fan it is sad to see this once great team slipping down to the back of the grid and maybe the slowest team in 09. Thats if they are on the grid. I know that sounds alarmist but they are sponsored by RBS & Hamleys amongst others.

My question is what should Frank do?

My answer is get new staff. Remember Mansells car was designed by the same guy that designed Vetels.

What is the solution .

A much more solid tie with an engine manufacturer who not only supplies Frank with engines for his tanks but also kick in for part of his expenditure. That's what Frank lost when BMW departed, and Frank hasn't looked like winning a race since.

Basically, he needs the relationship that McLaren has with Mercedes.

OK!! maybe Honda will pull out of F1 after their abysmal performance in the past two years, and a solid alliance with Honda as benefactor and engine supplier might work.

[Mark]

Williams will never do anything of any significance as long as they are a second rung team taking old engines from another team. The only way they can start to challenge is to get a proper engine supply.

Problem is that manufacturers are not looking to supply teams any more, with the exception of McLaren we either have works teams or customer teams. Not the traditional engines supplied to an indepenent team.

[ChrisS]

OK!! maybe Honda will pull out of F1 after their abysmal performance in the past two years, and a solid alliance with Honda as benefactor and engine supplier might work.

Honda wont be supporting Williams any time soon IMHO. In fact quite the opposite, Petrobras will leave Williams next year to sponsor Honda.

[christophulus]

They aren't going to get an engine supplier like Mercedes, I can't think of a manufacturer who is looking to enter F1 and is in a position to do so.

An interesting thing to see will be whether Force India jump up the grid if they get this Mercedes engine/gearbox/KERS package they've been after, because then it will be viable for an independent team to run this way.

Williams are in trouble, but if these new cost cuts actually work they might just pull through..

[PolePosition_1]

Williams obviously have the talent, because year in year out, they have a strong start to the season, its only as the season runs its course, they cannot keep up with the development of the other teams.

Which highlights lack of funds. With the engine freeze in place, you have to question whether a stronger tie with an engine manufacturer would make such a difference. I think its primarily down to resources. And if costs are cut, this could well mean Williams can be competitive, but at moment, cost cuttings aren't really hitting chassis development.

[ShiftingGears]

Problem is that manufacturers are not looking to supply teams any more, with the exception of McLaren we either have works teams or customer teams. Not the traditional engines supplied to an indepenent team.

Does that Middle Eastern Billionaire still own 40-something percent of McLaren?

McLaren have had to make quite a lot of sacrifices to remain competitive against teams that can be supported by major car manufacturing divisions of their respective companies.


Williams are in a bit of a pickle. They haven't had fantastic engines since BMW, and their drivers aren't fantastic either.

[PolePosition_1]

Williams are in a bit of a pickle. They haven't had fantastic engines since BMW, and their drivers aren't fantastic either.

You make a very valid point there regarding drivers. With the field so close this year, we really have seen the top of the cream drivers rise above. Because the drivers can't rely on their cars performance as much.

If you look at Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton, Massa and their team-mates, same car, you really see the difference a driver can make.

[wedge]

As a Williams fan it is sad to see this once great team slipping down to the back of the grid and maybe the slowest team in 09. Thats if they are on the grid. I know that sounds alarmist but they are sponsored by RBS & Hamleys amongst others.

My question is what should Frank do?

My answer is get new staff. Remember Mansells car was designed by the same guy that designed Vetels.

What is the solution .

You've hit the nail on the head.

Mark Hughes has made repeated claims Williams can't quite seem to make their cars more aero efficient enough, develop the car and get their numbers right in the wind tunnel.

Engine supply is the least of their worries now and Toyota is decent motor, though I can understand the frustration in this era of manufacturer-backed teams but Williams has repeated stated he will never relinquish the team's independent status.

Next year will be interesting as they'll be the only team using the flywheel-based KERS. Good luck to them.

[aryan]

Basically, he needs the relationship that McLaren has with Mercedes.


Well McLaren has the relationship they have with Mercedes, only after RD and Mansour Ojjeh agreed to sell part of the team to Daimler.

BMW wanted to do the same, but Frank declines.

Of course, this old story now, and Frank has admitted himself that much.

Hopefully, a new worthy manufacturer will enter F1, and they will join FW in making Williams a great team again. Until then...

[aryan]

Does that Middle Eastern Billionaire still own 40-something percent of McLaren?


If you mean Mansour Ojjeh, then yes. But he is French.

I'm not sure it's 40 percent though. I think it's more like in the 30 percent region these days, after he and RD had to sell part of the team to Mercedes.

He owns TAG as well, and was originally a Williams shareholder before Dennis wooed him.

[ChrisS]

If you mean Mansour Ojjeh, then yes. But he is French.

I'm not sure it's 40 percent though. I think it's more like in the 30 percent region these days, after he and RD had to sell part of the team to Mercedes.

He owns TAG as well, and was originally a Williams shareholder before Dennis wooed him.

Daimler owns 40% the Bahrain royal family own 30% Ron Dennis and Mansour Ojjeh own 15% each

[N. Jones]

I would like to see a return of Cosworth to F1. Don't know if that would greatly help Williams but a break from another team supplying them may help.

[V12]

Williams used Cosworths two years ago, and while quick, the team were plagued by unreliability all year and probably performed even worse than they did this season as a whole.

Or did you mean a mass manufacturer pullout and returning to something similar to the DFV-plus-Ferrari era of the 70s and early 80s?

[N. Jones]

No, I was just thinking that might be an alternative.

[jens]

As a Williams fan it is sad to see this once great team slipping down to the back of the grid and maybe the slowest team in 09. Thats if they are on the grid. I know that sounds alarmist but they are sponsored by RBS & Hamleys amongst others.

My question is what should Frank do?

My answer is get new staff. Remember Mansells car was designed by the same guy that designed Vetels.

What is the solution .

Uuuh... I think Williams fans should have more optimism regarding 2009. Chassis and mechanical grip will be more important next year than it has been for some time in F1 and those areas are actually the strength of Williams. Slowest team? Nah, I find it difficult to believe.

Sure the financial issues are worrying and the future decisions of their sponsors aren't clear yet, so this might indeed hurt Williams in the long run (second half of 2009, 2010, etc). But it's hard to predict at the moment as in F1 situations may change very quickly.

As for drivers, what I have found interesting this season is that when Williams was struggling Nakajima could often match or even beat Rosberg, but on circuits, where Williams was genuinely quick, Rosberg managed to beat Nakajima quite convincingly. So I'm wondering whether such scenarios were a question about Nico's motivation, when the car lacked of pace, which enabled Kazu to fight against him,... or was it about something else. Maybe we'll get a better answer in 2009.

[BDunnell]

What a shame Rosberg didn't get the win in Singapore...

[truefan72]

Williams need

1. a unique engine deal and I suggest they think out of the box and develop a relationship with Audi, Mazda, or GM or Porsche. with enough serious discussions and commitments this can be achieved.

2. They need be a bit more crafty in race strategy. The car is fairly quick but every race seems to be hampered by poor strategy. 1 stoppers are never the way to go in F1 anymore.

3. additional sponsorship

4. willingness to push the boundaries with experimental components.

I think they will be back. If Renault can do it, so can they.

[Miatanut]

Next year will be interesting as they'll be the only team using the flywheel-based KERS. Good luck to them.

I thought there were others, but from what we've heard, they seem to be ahead of the game on KERS. A flywheel-based KERS doesn't have all the energy losses of kinetic energy to electrical energy, electrical energy to chemical energy, chemical energy back to electric energy, then electric energy back to kinetic energy.

I think they will have their best season start in years.

[F1boat]

IMO they are doomed and it is too late to reverse the trend, that's why I am unhappy that Nico is still driving for them, as I rate him highly.

[Valve Bounce]

I thought there were others, but from what we've heard, they seem to be ahead of the game on KERS. A flywheel-based KERS doesn't have all the energy losses of kinetic energy to electrical energy, electrical energy to chemical energy, chemical energy back to electric energy, then electric energy back to kinetic energy.

I think they will have their best season start in years.

I think Frank's approach to KERS is to cut two holes in the bottom of the cars and stick the drivers feet through them to peddle like mad, a la Fred and Barney. :D

[Miatanut]

I think Frank's approach to KERS is to cut two holes in the bottom of the cars and stick the drivers feet through them to peddle like mad, a la Fred and Barney. :D

They did a deal with Flybrid.
http://www.flybridsystems.com/F1System.html
Simple and efficient. Now they are out testing while everybody else is still having problems.

[Valve Bounce]

They did a deal with Flybrid.
http://www.flybridsystems.com/F1System.html
Simple and efficient. Now they are out testing while everybody else is still having problems.

You've just gotta hand it to Fred and Barney - they do come up with some great ideas. :p :

[ChrisS]

I think they will have their best season start in years.

Unfortunately thats Williams' problem at the moment. Good season starts but as soon as the rest start bringing new parts, Williams drops back.

They need money to be able to keep up

[wedge]

I thought there were others, but from what we've heard, they seem to be ahead of the game on KERS. A flywheel-based KERS doesn't have all the energy losses of kinetic energy to electrical energy, electrical energy to chemical energy, chemical energy back to electric energy, then electric energy back to kinetic energy.

I think they will have their best season start in years.

There's talk of implementing spec-KERS. If this goes against Williams, which I think it will since they're a minority regarding KERS technology then quite frankly they're going to have to find more talented designers and aerodynamicists.