Goodbye grooves; Welcome back to slicks!

[Mark]

Well thankfully that was the last Formula 1 race on the silly grooved tyres. Back to proper racing slicks from next year :cool:

There were comments during the race that slicks hold up better in wet conditions than the grooved tyres, from vague memory I think that is the case? I certainly remember some stunning performances, the likes of Schumacher vs Hill at Belgium where the German was on slicks on a damp track.

[MAX_THRUST]

Never liked the groves, it started as three then four grooves didn't it. It was good to watch the old footage of F1 cars with slicks on during the ITV coverage, can't wait to see them back.....Less down force grippy tyres, overtaking shall be good next year.

[AndyL]

There were comments during the race that slicks hold up better in wet conditions than the grooved tyres, from vague memory I think that is the case?

I definitely remember hearing complaints about that when the grooved tyres first came in. Presonally I would have guessed that the grooved tyres would be less likely to aquaplane, I wonder why that's not the case.

[Mark]

I think I heard because the compound was harder. Not sure. Although I beleive the 2009 slicks are going to be pretty hard too.

[ioan]

I definitely remember hearing complaints about that when the grooved tyres first came in. Presonally I would have guessed that the grooved tyres would be less likely to aquaplane, I wonder why that's not the case.

It's not about aquaplaning, it's about losing temperature. Grooved tires have a bigger surface thus they lose temperature at a higher rate than the slicks (for a similar volume).

[AndyL]

It's not about aquaplaning, it's about losing temperature. Grooved tires have a bigger surface thus they lose temperature at a higher rate than the slicks (for a similar volume).

Ah, makes sense. I wouldn't be surprised if there was also some effect from harder compounds as mentioned by Mark.

[Boban]

Does anybody have any pictures of the 2009 cars specifications with the new wings etc?

When is the first off-season test, maybe we then can see how the front- and backwing will look like?

[Boban]

Does anybody have any pictures of the 2009 cars specifications with the new wings etc?

When is the first off-season test, maybe we then can see how the front- and backwing will look like?

[pettersolberg29]

With above - have any pics been released yet, or is it guesswork until the next test?

[gloomyDAY]

http://www.totalf1.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t10371.html

Check it!

[DazzlaF1]

http://www.totalf1.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t10371.html

Check it!

Those rear wings will take some getting used to

[call_me_andrew]

Never liked the groves, it started as three then four grooves didn't it. It was good to watch the old footage of F1 cars with slicks on during the ITV coverage, can't wait to see them back.....Less down force grippy tyres, overtaking shall be good next year.

It started out as 3 groves on the front and 4 on the rear. Then it was 4 on all tires.

[ShiftingGears]

Looking forward to this. I just hope the field is close enough, like this year.

[ioan]

http://www.totalf1.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t10371.html

Check it!

I'm not sure that is the full 2009 guise. Only the rear wing and the diffuser.
The front wing doesn't look that large, plus I think that the bridge element will be banned as the middle section of the wing will be standard for everyone, and all those aerodynamic appendages are still there

[52Paddy]

When I began following F1, the cars were on grooves (2001.) So 2009 will be the first year I've witnessed slicks. Obviously, I've watched older races when cars were on slicks, but never have I seen the slicks in live action. I wonder what a difference it will make.

[ioan]

Found this scan on the modeling forum:

http://1.2.3.12/bmi/i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff302/F1FerrariFan/ferrari09zt1.jpg

Link: http://www.f1m.com/main/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=9906

[DazzlaF1]

Found this scan on the modeling forum:

http://1.2.3.12/bmi/i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff302/F1FerrariFan/ferrari09zt1.jpg

Link: http://www.f1m.com/main/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=9906

I've read that in this weeks autosport, its a very accurate representation in my view, they said earlier that as a result, teams could save close to £50million in aerodynamic R&D.

Im suprised though that those "wheel covers" arent banned under the new regs

[ioan]

I've read that in this weeks autosport, its a very accurate representation in my view, they said earlier that as a result, teams could save close to £50million in aerodynamic R&D.

Im suprised though that those "wheel covers" arent banned under the new regs

Well, all aero appendages are banned, but the front and rear wing, and the diffuser, but as we all know the wheel covers aren't aero appendages but a part of the braking system.

[Hawkmoon]

When I began following F1, the cars were on grooves (2001.) So 2009 will be the first year I've witnessed slicks. Obviously, I've watched older races when cars were on slicks, but never have I seen the slicks in live action. I wonder what a difference it will make.

By themselves, slicks won't make much difference. I think it's the combination of slicks and reduced aero that will make the difference.

The difference may not be all positive. With more grip from the tyres drivers may be able to get out of corners better making it harder for the following driver to make use of a better corner exit in trying to make a pass down the straight.

Who knows? We've only go 5 months till we find out too. :(

[52Paddy]

By themselves, slicks won't make much difference. I think it's the combination of slicks and reduced aero that will make the difference.

I see. But why is everybody so happy to see the grooves go if the slicks don't make that much of a difference? (I'm not being smart)

And also, the aero on the previous years' cars created a problem with overtaking. Has that been resolved for this year?

[Knock-on]

Interesting mock up.

By reducing the amount of rear wing and increasing the front, will this make the cars slightly more oversteery in high speed corners and understeery in slower ones?

The increased grip will help I suppose.

Also, in that mock up, will they be allowed the deflector infront of the rad intake?

[Mark]

I see. But why is everybody so happy to see the grooves go if the slicks don't make that much of a difference? (I'm not being smart)


Quite simple. Slicks look good grooves do not.

[52Paddy]

Quite simple. Slicks look good grooves do not.

Well, presuming your being sincere, I agree with that. I just thought there was more to the hype than that, but ok. :)

[ShiftingGears]

Well, presuming your being sincere, I agree with that. I just thought there was more to the hype than that, but ok. :)

Well, it gives more mechanical grip. Coupled with the reduced aero, the cars will be able to follow each other closer during cornering seeing as the dirty wake from the cars won't affect the grip level of the cars as much.

There is also less graining with slicks.

And, I think the cars can be wrestled with a lot more with slicks. I read an article about the 1998 changes saying it made it harder for drivers to save the car once the grip level was exceeded, but that may be more to do with the narrower cars.

[ioan]

And, I think the cars can be wrestled with a lot more with slicks. I read an article about the 1998 changes saying it made it harder for drivers to save the car once the grip level was exceeded, but that may be more to do with the narrower cars.

Well, if I'm not mistaken, the cars will be larger again next season.

[52Paddy]

Well, it gives more mechanical grip. Coupled with the reduced aero, the cars will be able to follow each other closer during cornering seeing as the dirty wake from the cars won't affect the grip level of the cars as much.

There is also less graining with slicks.

And, I think the cars can be wrestled with a lot more with slicks. I read an article about the 1998 changes saying it made it harder for drivers to save the car once the grip level was exceeded, but that may be more to do with the narrower cars.

:up: Cheers for that. Hope it lives up to expectations. Sounds like the regs should produce close racing. :)

[Lalo]

Great!! More sideways!

[DexDexter]

By themselves, slicks won't make much difference. I think it's the combination of slicks and reduced aero that will make the difference.

The difference may not be all positive. With more grip from the tyres drivers may be able to get out of corners better making it harder for the following driver to make use of a better corner exit in trying to make a pass down the straight.

Who knows? We've only go 5 months till we find out too. :(

The point is that no matter what tires or regs, the best cars will start at the front if there are no special circumstances in qualifying, and if the best cars start at the front, there isn't going to be much overtaking.

[ioan]

The point is that no matter what tires or regs, the best cars will start at the front if there are no special circumstances in qualifying, and if the best cars start at the front, there isn't going to be much overtaking.

Honestly, how are you going to convince them to start last?
Remember Silverstone 2004 or 2005? When everyone was spinning out and slowing on purpose?!

[ArrowsFA1]

Well thankfully that was the last Formula 1 race on the silly grooved tyres. Back to proper racing slicks from next year.
Grooved tyres and narrow cars...uuurrrrrrggggg :mad: Two of the worst changes to be introduced in F1 IMHO.

1997 :up:
http://www.f1technical.net/f1db/cars/images/1997/williams-fw19.jpg

1998 :down:
http://www.f1technical.net/f1db/cars/images/1998/fw20.jpg

[ShiftingGears]

Grooved tyres and narrow cars...uuurrrrrrggggg. Two of the worst changes to be introduced in F1 IMHO.

1997 :up:
http://www.f1technical.net/f1db/cars/images/1997/williams-fw19.jpg

1998 :down:
http://www.f1technical.net/f1db/cars/images/1998/fw20.jpg

I'm sure the Williams team agree :p :

[ArrowsFA1]

I'm sure the Williams team agree :p :
Indeed. I blame the paint job :p

[raphael_2]

Are slicks going to make overtaking easier?

Can someone explain to me how please?

[Firstgear]

Will there still be the requirement to use both hard & soft compounds? If so, will they be using the sidewall for the white (or green) stripe?

[Somebody]

By reducing the amount of rear wing and increasing the front, will this make the cars slightly more oversteery in high speed corners and understeery in slower ones?

The increased grip will help I suppose.
The central section of the front wing is meant to be downforce-neutral, as I recall (all the front downforce will come from the sides).


Well, if I'm not mistaken, the cars will be larger again next season.
You're mistaken. The front wings are wider, but the track hasn't significantly changed.


Will there still be the requirement to use both hard & soft compounds? If so, will they be using the sidewall for the white (or green) stripe?
Yes, and I'm not sure if they've decided on how to mark them (last I heard, they were planning to put stripes around the outside edges/corners of the tyres - but that may have changed).

[ioan]

You're mistaken. The front wings are wider, but the track hasn't significantly changed.

What was the track width this season? I think it was between 1950 and 2000 mm.

Next year will be up to 1980 - 2000 mm. Not an increase of the max track width but one for the minimum.



3.3 Overall width:
The overall width of the car, including complete wheels and when
measured at the front and rear wheel centre lines, may not be less
than1980mm and must not exceed 2000mm with the steered
wheels in the straight ahead position. Overall width will be
measured when the car is fitted with tyres inflated to 1.4 bar.


Link: http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/1151088479__2009_F1_TECHNICAL_REGULATIONS.pdf

[Somebody]

What was the track width this season? I think it was between 1950 and 2000 mm.

Next year will be up to 1980 - 2000 mm. Not an increase of the max track width but one for the minimum.

Link: http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/1151088479__2009_F1_TECHNICAL_REGULATIONS.pdf

It was 1800mm this year, and it'll be 1800mm again next year. You're linking to a very early (December 2006) draft.

Here's the current (and presumably final in at least the major aspects) 2009 technical regulations, dated Jul 2008: http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/90D889BE20961303C1257483004B8AC0/$FILE/1-2009%20F1%20TECHNICAL%20REGULATIONS%2011-07-2008.pdf

The relevant quote:

3.3 Overall width :
The overall width of the car, including complete wheels, must not exceed 1800mm with the steered wheels in the straight ahead position. Overall width will be measured when the car is fitted with tyres inflated to 1.4 bar.
...is word-for-word identical to the wording in the 2008 regs.

[ioan]

It was 1800mm this year, and it'll be 1800mm again next year. You're linking to a very early (December 2006) draft.

Here's the current (and presumably final in at least the major aspects) 2009 technical regulations, dated Jul 2008: http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/90D889BE20961303C1257483004B8AC0/$FILE/1-2009%20F1%20TECHNICAL%20REGULATIONS%2011-07-2008.pdf

The relevant quote:

...is word-for-word identical to the wording in the 2008 regs.

My bad.
It would have been a good change. What a pity! :(

[call_me_andrew]

Are slicks going to make overtaking easier?

Can someone explain to me how please?

Well bringing back slicks while reducing the size of the rear wing will increase mechanical grip while decreasing downforce. The amount of grip produced by downforce is reduced as the amount of traffic around a car increases. Mechanical grip is not influenced by traffic. When dependency on downforce is reduced and dependency on mechanical grip increased, it becomes easier to have cars race in close quarters.